Materialism & Mistakes | MENtality with Ebuka, Banky W & The MENtality Community

In this special live episode of MENtality with Ebuka, host Ebuka Obi-Uchendu is joined by co-host Banky Wellington, alongside a room filled with celebrities, friends, and members of the MENtality community, for an honest and thought-provoking conversation on materialism, poor decisions, and masculinity.

Together, they explore the complex relationship between wealth, poverty, societal expectations, and the decisions men make under pressure. From the pursuit of status and financial success to the consequences of poor choices, the discussion examines how access to money, or the lack of it, can shape identity, influence behaviour, and redefine what it means to be a man in today's Nigeria. Through candid audience contributions and personal reflections, the episode challenges conventional ideas of success, responsibility, and the lessons that often emerge from life's biggest mistakes.

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• Banky W – Instagram
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MENtality With Ebuka is a production of Knight & Sheriff and EME.

Transcript

SPEAKER_13 0:10

Ready for some unfiltered conversations. These make some noise from our hosts of tonight: the legends, the icons, the men of the moment, Ebuka Obi Uchendu and Banky Who.

SPEAKER_05 0:50

Thank you very much, everyone, for being here today. Um I'm very, very excited about this. And I know it's a phrase Nigerians or human beings use a lot, excited. But I really am because this I wasn't sure what this was gonna be about, right? Um we've done this now. This is our second season having these conversations, and thank you. It's not easy. If you talk or if you have a microphone on the internet, you know it's hard to keep podcasts going. We started this with a lot of skepticism. Conversations online now about men are two extremes. It's either women bashing or man hating. It's almost like if you try to be a little sensible, it's not necessarily sweet. You don't trend, you know, people don't want to listen to it. You're not dragging somebody. So, I mean, it's very easy, at least for me, to do a show that would trend every week. I mean, you do one, it's called Big Brother. I feel like that's very easy to do, but this was very important because uh especially since 2020, when COVID happened, I feel like there was a shift in a lot of narratives about how people sort of talk about genders generally, and most of the voices we were hearing from men or about men were very one-directional. It was the they call them the manosphere now. The guys who are telling you all of these crazy things, and boys are being raised a very interesting way now. So I've been I had been thinking about can people listen to me in some way? And of course, these guys, you know, have you if you've seen the episodes, you know that Banky is a huge well of knowledge, and someone who thank you so much, he's going to pay me later. We decided to do this in particular because it's okay to have one or two guests every time, but let's actually have a situation where the people are the guest of the day. Yeah, so you guys are the guests today. So when we're putting this together, we wanted to, Banky and I went back and forth on what the topic should be. And we are divided on what we should talk about today. And um I figured we should let you guys decide what today's conversation will be about. As the guests, there's gonna be a microphone in the audience throughout this. Um, but I want us to vote. So we have two topics that we are divided on. Maybe when I say the topics, you will know who choose what. But don't vote based on I like Banky, yeah, I like Ibugaya. So the first the first um potential topic is mistakes. Um a lot of people don't take very well, especially men. So making mistakes, you kind of just see it as failure. Um I know I do. You might look back years later and realize, yeah, maybe that wasn't that bad. But in the moment, you never want to, perfection is what we chase, right? And it's hard to make mistakes in a place like this where a mistake costs you more than you planned for. Whether it's with money decisions, woman silence in the room. You know, relationships, whatever it is, you know, you make a decision, you make a call with your career, and you're like, shit. That was a bad call. So it kind of limits you from actually making decisions generally. And I want to explore what that means. I have so many stories, I'm sure Banky does. I know Banky does.

SPEAKER_08 5:16

What are you trying to say? Just attack me with your phone chest.

SPEAKER_05 5:23

Second conversation is materialism. There's been a lot of talk about the fact that they say Nigerian men are more materialistic than women. That is a way that there's a way you behave around rich men. Um I believe billionaires are funny, naturally. So is that true? How does that drive just generally how we are as people or as men and the kind of decisions we make where there's the Ebon who is younger than you, but because he has more money is an Ebon. So those are the two conversations. Mistake, materialism. Should we do a Senate vote?

SPEAKER_08 6:26

The eyes have it.

SPEAKER_05 6:27

The eyes or the knees. No, those people are not normal. Let's not do that. How do we handle this book? Thank you.

SPEAKER_08 6:37

Maybe just a show of hands.

SPEAKER_05 6:39

Show of hands, okay. Um, if you want us to talk about mistakes, because many people here have stories about mistakes, so you might want to hear their stories. We have some more glend, they will be alright by the time we need to ask the question. Or if you want men to confess about how they act when they see their guy as hammered. And let's have those honest conversations. So, first of all, who wants us to have a conversation about mistakes?

SPEAKER_08 7:11

You can only pick one, by the way. You cannot vote twice, please.

SPEAKER_05 7:15

Let's not confuse the count. You want to have two conversations, Frex? Mistaking materialism mistakes, exactly. So mistakes, let's just see your hands for mistakes. Those for mistakes, they are why you use microphone. Those for materialism. Uh-uh. We didn't say shout, they say raise your hand. If you want us to talk about materialism, raise your hand. Okay, here's what we're gonna do. Today's topic. Thank you. We're gonna be talking about material materialistic mistakes. So let's go there. Um, before we go, who do you think chose mistakes? W. So it's me that it's material. It's all right, it's all right. I would deny it. So I remember posting a picture, I think it was in 2019. When did that Wakanda movie come out? Um what was that movie called? Wakanda. What's the movie? Black Panther. Black Panther. There was a premiere at Film House, and um, I think it was one of these banks uh that sponsored it, and a bank CEO, Tony Lumelu, came to the red carpet, and then I posted the picture on Instagram. All the slides, I was laughing. The comments were like, ah, I've met him, he's not that funny. I say, if you really meet him, you know, so it's a thing we've been accused of a lot. Yeah, that men are there's a way we act around money. We especially in Nigeria, and I think a lot of it ties to how this country works, right? Nigeria's sense of respect. Maybe in the past used to be tied to age, maybe still is to a small extent, right? But we all know now that it's about we all, most of us are on social media. We see when someone gets called out, and the next response is we again money passes you, or things along those lines. So money sort of rules these conversations and it defines how we hold people accountable generally. Even in friend groups, we've had this friend group conversation on this on this show in the previous episode, where the dynamics of a friendship most times is tied around the richest person in that group with guys. If you have six, seven guy friends, the guy away who pass dictates where the vibe is, where are we going tonight? You know, if we're going out, you have to call him first. Baba you day, if he's not going out, you're you might not really want to go anymore because you don't want spent like that. And you know if it's there, the vibe is different, right? So money sort of controls respect, power, and there's a huge wealth gap in this country. I read somewhere that the three richest men in Nigeria, you know, we always hear in America the 1% is richer than the bottom 80% or whatever. In Nigeria, three men are richer than about 85 million Nigerians put together. And it's not the poorest 85 million, just pick any 85 million Nigerians put together. So this is Aliku Dangote, Abdulla Samad Rabiu, um Mike Adenuka. Their wealth together outweighs. So almost like the middle doesn't really exist. Right? Um Nigeria doesn't have the most billionaires in Africa, but Nigeria has, by wealth, the most, about 40% of the billionaires' wealth in Africa are Nigerians, even though South Africa has more billionaires. So there's that top-heavy money, and then the rest of us. So it dictates a lot of dynamics because there's the constant aspiration to be that. And it almost feels like are we ever gonna bridge that gap? Now, I know you didn't want to talk about materialism, but you used to be an artist by the grace of God. And you were also a politician. Now then bad past. You know, so what do you think of this? When when we have I mean, when you see this sort of dynamics play out, you've seen it in all the spheres of your life. Music, Nollywood, um, politics. Even in the church, as a pastor now, is the person that has the most money that sits in the front row, Abby, in many churches. How do you see that ever stopping? Because we're not gonna, it's almost a part of our culture now.

SPEAKER_08 12:51

Um I think it it's um it's definitely a big problem and a big issue. I think we've gotten to the point as a society that we celebrate wealth regardless of how it was gotten. And so somebody could have stolen the country blind, but as long as the person is wealthy, that person is automatically accorded respect and honor. And I remember there was a time that Suso and I were talking about this thing and how we were saying to ourselves that we have to figure out a way that when we're teaching our children, we teach them that the process is as important as the result. And so it's not enough to say, oh, Zaya, you did a great job on your homework or you did very well, you got great grades in school. It's also important to celebrate the process of doing the work. Or I saw you when you sat at the table and you did the painting or you did your reading, you know, talking about the process so that we we start to raise a generation that appreciates the process of things, not just the final result. I think that the obsession with wealth has entered an interesting place. I remember um, and you probably remember this, there was a time when I went to the supermarkets, and apparently some girls saw me coming out, you know, getting my groceries in my car, and they started filming my car and saying that ah, is he not supposed to be a successful artist? Why is his car, you know, seven years old? Why is he not driving a new model? And they actually filmed me and drove behind me on the road, like onto some stocking stuff, and and you know, uploaded it to the internet in the early days of Twitter with their full chest to mock me for you know for the kind of car that I was driving. And this car was a Range Rover, by the way.

SPEAKER_05 14:56

It wasn't even like a car, it was old.

SPEAKER_08 14:59

That was the idea. It was it was a seven-year-old Range Rover, but apparently, this idea that you know, if you're not driving the latest model car or you know, wearing a Rolex or uh uh whatever, Philip Patek or whatever, you know, the latest watch is, then there's you you lose something in your stature.

SPEAKER_05 15:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 15:21

Um, and I think it's it's unhealthy and it's dangerous. I remember I remember once, like early in my artist career, I was sitting with another artist who I will not name. I will not name him, no.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

And he said, Okay, no, it's not here.

SPEAKER_08 15:36

No, he's not here. And he said to me that, ah, W, you know, why you know they wear Rolex now? And I said, bro, I'm trying to reach a certain level of you know, real estate and investments before I buy an expensive watch. He said, no, no, no, no, no. That it is there's some rooms that you get into that if you're not wearing a certain kind of watch on your wrist, that you know, they will not respect you, they will not give you certain. And the thing kept like playing in my head so much. Then he now said, Oh, that he has a plug uh that can give me a Rolex at a good price, that the guy knows how to source like pieces and all of that. And I actually went through the process and bought a fake Rolex for like $14,000. Yes, for myself guy. And he looked wait, wait, did he? It's a materialistic mistake. No, wait, did he buy it or you bought it? No, I bought it. No, he told me where he got his and linked me with the guy.

SPEAKER_05 16:35

Why am I just hearing the story?

SPEAKER_08 16:36

Baba, now shame, you know, you know go talk him. So I made this materialistic mistake because the Rolex probably the real price maybe would have been like 30k. But I could get one for like 14k. So I went through it and I got it. And you know, for a short while, and I say short, emphasis on short, it gave me a sense of validation. Web say, you know, you go somewhere and you'd be like, hey, how you doing? Yeah. But then, like, maybe like six to nine months down, the Rolex started having K-Leg, you know, the second hand will just drop off, or the screen will just start shaking. But the minute hand is faster than the second hand. And maybe a year into it, the whole thing just started falling apart. And then to crown it all off, I now I now read an article where police picked the guy up for selling fake watches. And I say I confess this incident because it was like it just dawned on me how far my mentality had sunk. That I thought that I needed to needed a watch as a status symbol to prove that I belonged in the rooms that God was putting me in. And so since that time, I know they buy watch again. Now fit band at the way. I count my steps, but I I will say that that that experience, you know, is not really the mistake you make, it's what you do in reaction to the mistake. But it it was a reminder for me that I have to see myself beyond materialism and beyond the things I'm able to buy and beyond the things I'm able to wear. Um, and I know that that's easier said than done in a society like this, but it's it's a lesson I had to learn the hard way. To say my worth doesn't come from what's on my wrist, it comes from what God has put inside of my heart. And that's that's the person that I try to be.

SPEAKER_05 18:33

I thought you would finish without mentioning God.

SPEAKER_16 18:35

Never mind.

SPEAKER_05 18:39

I'm not happy that I'm just hearing this story, but it's all right. I want to put someone on this club. Please come and give Timini the mic. Give him the mic. They said you are materialistic. So content creation is a crazy thing right now. Um there's a lot of people here who are content creators. I can see many faces. In fact, even the billionaires are content creators.

SPEAKER_16 19:05

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:05

Ilumili is not playing with us, man. Those PJ shots are mad. And then a lot of us see these things, and it doesn't help the aspiration to want to, you know, get there without hearing what the process is. Because content creation doesn't tell you the process, yeah. It shows you the results, even if the result is, you know, filtered and face-tuned. Um, and I wanted to come to you because you are you're at a point now where you've become a sort of your artistic for a lot of people. You're in Nollywood. But what's that in your way? Out of the way artists, they do it in. Out of the way they worry artists. So you've become this guy who's, you know, you're a fashion guy, you know your labels. This will watch conversation, you are heavy inside. Um, you also do a lot of influencing for brands and all of that, and people see that. And like I said, we don't hear enough of the stories of how people get there or how people got there. Um is that an indictment on influencing and influencing culture? What do you think needs to be done differently? How are you doing it? And do you feel like people relate to your story as a whole?

SPEAKER_15 20:25

Okay, um, hi guys. First of all, I'll say that honestly, I was part of the bandwagon of you know wanting to have it all. Did you buy a fake watch? No, never actually. All my watches are mine. Well, anyways, um, but then slowly when I started getting older, I realized that um all these things don't necessarily bring you contentment or happiness or whatever. And you would always there'll always be a newer watch, there'll always be a newer car, there'll always be a new season. I was I used to be a perfume collector. I say used to be because I had like 100. I know it's not used to I have old ones, but I'm not buying any new ones because I realized that I'm all this perfume, she was in the apple. Yeah, as I could have bought a piece of land easily, but um, I don't blame people. See, the thing is, you good things are meant for us as children of God. You get me? Like, I don't want us to have a conversation and try and look down on having a nice car or having a nice watch, you know. But one thing we need to remember is are you doing it with your full chest? Like how you got it, are you happy with it when you are alone, when you're looking into your mirror? And without it, would you still be happy? I've been broke, you know, in my life, but my energy is always the same because me, I found a way to always be happy with whatever it is that I have on whatever level, if the scale is tilting up and if the scale is tilting down. So, I mean, I understand that it's valid, but I also just for me, people that are watching. Me, I always try to make it known that there will be bad days, you know, the same way that there will be good days. And if you dwell on the bad days and you can't find yourself, you can't step out, you can't create content, then you're living a lie. And I wonder how long you can live that life. You know, that's kind of like where I'm at now. There were days that I was that guy that um, I will fake it, I'll borrow, you know, I will do all of that. But honestly, and I feel like that's why influencing is also kind of um what's the way to put it? Influencing is also kind of like a false life that I've tried to step down back from because I realize that who are we deceiving? Me, I know that I'm doing my things clearly, but the person watching me, what is the person doing to try and keep up with what I'm doing, you know? And that's one thing that all of us that have that platform need to start preaching.

SPEAKER_05 22:48

I also know how did you get there though? Is it age? Did you get older and have more perspective? And I asked that because I mean, like you said, I like nice things, and I'm never gonna deny the facts. It's a it's the big reason why I do a lot of what I need to hammer, you know. Um, and I don't think there's anything wrong with money is sweet. What did it say? Is the love of money that is the route?

SPEAKER_08 23:15

Money is not evil, it's the love of money.

SPEAKER_05 23:19

I want to debate that, you know. Because, and this is not a Nigerian thing now, it's global. People say money can buy you happiness, but are you really sure? Have you had money and just seen what it can do for you? Freaking Monaco trended for a week on Twitter just because someone went in a helicopter and Nigerians lost their minds and saw yachts like they had never seen yachts before. I'm not saying materialism is great, but there's a lot of whether we like it or not, a lot of what we do, Banki is waiting to fight me. A lot of what we do, I have things to say as humans, there's a money angle to it. Comfort, respect, providing for your kids, just access, you know, soft life. Money is a huge factor in a lot of that. I'm not saying chase obscene wealth or just be, you know, let that be your complete personality. But we can't deny the fact that money is good. But back to my point now. I wanted to know how do you how did you get to the point where you went from borrowing luxury things or whatever it was you said to now being confident enough not to care? Um, I mean, it's not like you are not necessarily caring, because I can see like six brands of your body anyway. So you still are that kind of person, but you just can't afford it now.

SPEAKER_15 24:57

Yeah, I think some it's I think when you get it, I think you everyone in the special just gets it once. When you get it and you realize that it's not bringing the happiness that you expected that to bring, or like it's like saving to buy a car. You you are thinking about buying this car, you want this car so much, and then you pay 140 million or 200 million, like your G Wagon now, and then the car is and then the car is in your compound and your design gris for it. I realize that okay, what next? You know, it's not really changing the way you even the respect that you think that people will get you or sorry, give you, you realize that it's not really giving you that. People say when you buy that G-Wagon, you don't even need to wear clothes or just wear a white t-shirt, or the key, but nobody at the point is that when you step into the club, nobody really knows a church. Sorry, Mikey. When you step there, nobody really cares what you drove in, you know, and there's only a limit of um posts or pictures that you can take in that car that you bought. So I think I got there and I realized that that's not what it's all about. Yeah, and then also in terms of even like dealing with the billionaires that you want to impress, the real billionaires don't really care because every day they're meeting people that are trying to, you know, um kiss their ass or trying to, you know, suck up to them so they can they can almost um tell when you're faking it or when you're not really about that life and they won't reach you. Yeah, so the idea is just be yourself. Most of the time, the billionaires or the dangote or the people that you want to network into when you get into a room, it's when you're original that they would gravitate towards you. It's not really about the patek or the watch or whatever it is, you know. And that's that's kind of like what it is. Fair enough. You have been heaving.

SPEAKER_08 26:39

No, no, no, I I I wanted to say that um, and I I you know that I know that sometimes I don't want to come across as preachy, because yes, I am you know a pastor, and my spirituality is very important to me. Um but I do think that what a lot of people don't realize, and I think Timini was alluding to it, is that there is a place where you get to the end of making money and still realize that something is missing. So if you guys remember a few years ago, there was a guy called Anthony Bordain. Do you guys remember him? He's a blessed memory now. He was a ridiculously wealthy guy, very successful. Had this show on the Food Network where he would travel the world and just eat at different restaurants and have conversations with people.

SPEAKER_05 27:31

He inspired my show on Prime, by the way.

SPEAKER_08 27:33

Oh, he inspired your show. Oh, yes, that's right. Yeah, actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:36

So Anthony Bordain is. People cut ones of Africa, you can watch it on Prime.

SPEAKER_08 27:40

Thank you. So he so he had this show where he would just travel the world and eat with people and have conversations. And he came to Lagos, and I was one of the people that sat with him, and we had this great conversation. And in between, you know, filming, we were just talking. And I said to him that man, you have the greatest job in the world because I'm a foodie, and I would just like to travel to different countries and eat and just be chatting with people. And he kind of laughed it off and said, Oh, you know, I am pretty blessed, you know, I'm pretty lucky. And we filmed the episode and that was it. But then, maybe I think a year or two later, I don't remember how much later it was, I woke up to the news that this guy had committed suicide. And not just him, if you guys remember Robin Williams, right, the comedian, this is somebody who was ridiculously wealthy, who had spent his entire life making millions, if not billions, of people happy. And he committed suicide. So I think that there's a there's something to be aware of where you know when the Bible says, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul? Where it's like you chase after money and you chase after materialistic things and you chase after all of these things, and when you get there, you realize that you are still empty. And it's a dangerous place to be because the thing that you've idolized your whole life is now no longer enough to give you meaning. And I think, yes, we all need money. We like nice things. I like real estate, I like to buy my wife things, she likes to buy me things, and that's that's there's nothing wrong with that. Money in your hand is not the problem, but money in your heart, where it is now on the throne of your heart and it's your obsession and it's all you think about and it's all that matters to you, that's when you run into trouble. That's all I wanted.

SPEAKER_16 29:30

What's money in your heart?

SPEAKER_08 29:33

I mean, the definition of that is different for everybody, but there's a level where the chase for money becomes all that you think about, that you sacrifice your marriage, you sacrifice your relationships, you sacrifice your friendships, you sacrifice your soul, you sacrifice everything that will actually give you fulfillment. You know, there are people that are, I think they call it like the CEO's disease, where they're like working nonstop around the clock and they find no fulfillment in anything else. And I think that that's a dangerous place to be where it's that thirst and hunger for money and materialism, and you you miss the things that truly matter. There's a book called The Five Regrets of the Dying, and it's a really deep book. And I strongly advise you to read it. But go and read the thoughts of people who've come to the end of their life, maybe they have a fatal disease or they're, you know, they're counting down to their death day. And the regret is never, I should have made more money. Never. It's I should have spent more time with my family, I should have found my relationship with God, I should have taken time to just enjoy my life and the people that matter most to me. It's never, oh, I wish I made more money when you get to the end of the line. We we spend our entire lives chasing after these things only to find out that those are not the things that matter. So, yes, find money, but find meaning as well. In fact, find meaning first and let the money come with it. God bless you.

SPEAKER_05 31:13

But let's be realistic. We are all on social media. If you are not on Twitter, you're on Instagram, you're on TikTok, you're on Facebook, you're on WhatsApp. We know what the reality is. That's why I hear you, right? I I get your point. I know what it should be, but what it is is what we see. And what we see has defined who we are, unfortunately. We have a situation where every time you open your social media, someone is launching a new car, someone is traveling. The travel travel vloggers, fear good. I feel like they are the ones that actually bother me. You are inside traffic, someone is in spin in that moment, you know. People are just leaving, and that's all you see. And for you, I mean, you've gone through your phases, yeah, and I and I think it's one thing a lot of people need to realize. Yes, with age comes a lot of realization, and you realize a lot of things that don't matter, but I think speaking to a lot of younger people is it's harder to have that context to say these things are not that important. Because, like I know, for example, you've left Twitter, you haven't been on Twitter for over a year now. Not many young people want to leave Twitter. Yeah, social media is kind of where they get a lot of their feedback, whatever it is, and what we see there is what has defined a lot of our interactions. I want to go to two people here who I know they have money, so you can build them later. My wife. Let me start. Go to Ikani is there. Um I want to find out because it's very rare to maybe not very rare, but it's not very usual to find people who have money in Nigeria and you don't know them. If they are not showing up, their friends are showing up for them, right? Someone is sharp blowing their trumpets. You don't necessarily know a lot of low-key successful people. I mean, uh Judeo Baiz, if not for that viral picture, most people didn't know him. We will still come to you. But he's been living the life, we know where you have been jamming him internationally before that happened. So, for someone like you now, how do you stay away from the noise? And I want you to speak to the facts or the context of younger you. Right? Looking at with the way the world works now, what how do I tune the noise out? He has money, by the way, but go on.

SPEAKER_14 34:08

That's your first mistake. Um, very old money. I side with banking that money is might be important as a tool, but it shouldn't govern you. And I say this as somebody who's I've made money, I've lost money, but when I've lost money, nobody knew because it wasn't my driving force. Um what is important in your life and what has been important for me, three things my wife, my kids, and my circle. Because when you don't have anything else material, and you have that, you are rich. So, in that sense, yes, I have money, I have the money of fellowship and friendship. I'm trying to be as rich as you, Able K, and have billionaires in my Instagram. Forget this one, it doesn't work. But okay, um being really honest. I've never defined myself or judged myself by what's in my pocket. Because they can't bury you with your money. Your whoever marries you will not sleep with your money or make love to your money or enjoy that money except through you. So it's it's what you have, what you bring to the table, who you bring to the table as the money, which is why we say your your net worth is tight, your network and social currency. Money is not important, or rather, it's it's it's not crucially important.

SPEAKER_05 35:42

And here's my thing I know you say you can't die with your money, but you have what if I die at 106? So I had a long life that I could have lived happily and healthily. Am I making sense? What am I going to do with this long life if I don't have money? Give me the microphone. You are trying to be humble.

SPEAKER_08 36:08

If you want to say something, you can raise a hand so that it's not just restricted to the people that Ebuka pointed.

SPEAKER_05 36:13

Let's go to Ebonia because I know he's on my side small. He likes money, but he's also very, very frugal with it.

SPEAKER_11 36:21

Hi guys, can you hear me? Ebuka, I'm gonna try and drop a few nuggets here. Okay, how much is money to you? Give me a number, just pick a number. I don't know. Pick a number, a billion rich billion dollars. A billion dollars.

SPEAKER_05 36:38

I mean, somebody has reached trillion, and I don't think they still have it.

SPEAKER_11 36:42

Would a billion dollars satisfy you? I'm not looking for satisfaction. Answer the question. No, that's right. Give me a point. Okay, so I'm going back to the first issue, which was about materialism and you know people chasing money, and there's certain things that I wanted to say. Now, I'm sure some of you guys know this this this phrase. If I gave you $10 million now, what would you say? What would I say? Yeah, thank you. I will call you from Miami. Right. So thank you. If I told you you can have it but not live more than 24 hours, what did you do?

SPEAKER_05 37:22

I mean, I could make 10 million dollars, so it's not worth it.

SPEAKER_11 37:24

Right. So then all of a sudden, living actually has a lot of value to it. It goes to what you were saying, it goes to what you were saying. I was a dollar millionaire at 30, at 35, I was working as a laborer.

SPEAKER_08 37:38

As a laborer. As a laborer. Wow.

SPEAKER_11 37:39

I've said this a few times, you know. Um where? In England. I was I had a dream, there's something I wanted to do, and I'd lost my job as a banker, and to maintain that lifestyle, I was hustling, doing all kinds of things, but nobody saw it. The Porsche's were still outside. I had my priorities wrong. I'm sure most of you know, and like you said, it my lifestyle has not changed. I'm going to be 60 next month, and my lifestyle has not changed. All that has happened is a lot of a viral photo brought me to everybody's attention. And I say to people, we place values on the wrong things. I've said this before. You may have uh 99 problems, but the minute you have a health problem, you only have one problem. It's simple. We also live in a country where there are people who print business cards. Going back to accessibility earlier on, I am the personal gardener to the governor of XYZ State because we believe in with accessibility, yeah, we can get anywhere.

SPEAKER_05 38:48

Friend of the sun, I've seen that this with this administration. Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 38:52

So I think one of the things we have to grasp here is get our priorities right. We get our priorities right. Like my my in-law, he's actually my in-law, believe it or not. As my in-law said earlier on. People should spread this world. You can't be married in each other. You know, you say these things. It depends. I am a very, very wealthy man. Because you can't rush balls that no, I'm about to drop it down to you. The last time we heard that it was unbelievably liquid. No, I didn't say liquid, I said wealthy. Because the basis on which I judge my wealth is not cash. I'm happy to be alive. I'm happy to be alive. So let's let's get that project right. And until we start to look at things and say, okay, it's nice to have the watch, it's it's nice to have this, but this is really where I want to be. Yeah, then we actually we may start addressing some of these issues about the pressures on men, bloody, bloody bloody. Your wife wants a million dollars, but would you like well? Actually, I won't say that because I was gonna say, Do you want me alive or dead? And I know a few men don't want to hear that, the answer to that. So, I mean, that's me. So I just thought if you put it into perspective, yeah, you may actually see why guys who may not appear to be wealthy are actually as happy and cheerful and in their own hearts as wealthy as they need to be. Let's get our priorities right. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 40:21

So one of the hand has been up at the back.

SPEAKER_16 40:24

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 40:26

I can't say, but it's a white face gap. He has been I hope you have a lot to say.

SPEAKER_09 40:32

Hi, Buka, hi Banky. So the only people that tell us money is not everything are the people that have money. Okay. I would advise you today that whatever you hear here face money and have money. He said the last speaker just said that he doesn't calculate his wealth by cash, it's because he has cash. If you like, don't have money, you will calculate poverty. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 41:14

Does okay, does anybody disagree? Because that's a general belief. They will say, Oh, it's better to cry in a benzene. Uh why do you need money? Money does not buy happiness. Have you cried on that admin? Have you cried in a PJ? It's different, though. So let's be honest with that's why I said I hear you, but we also need to understand the realities of where we are. Who disagrees? Who disagrees? You want to say something?

SPEAKER_08 41:44

I just want to say that we're not advocating poverty, please. We're not saying that you should say, Oh, money is not. I said money is important, but money is a tool, it's not a master. Even the Bible says you cannot serve, it didn't say you cannot serve God and Satan. It said you cannot save God and money. So there is a world in which money becomes your master, where you will do anything for it. We see stories of people doing rituals, of people doing kidnappings. That's when money has become a master. So we're not saying settle for poverty. Dust settles. People should never don't settle, be ambitious, strive to be successful, absolutely. But there is a difference between chasing after your dreams to be successful so that you can be a blessing to your family and those around you, and money becoming your master, where you will do anything with anyone, regardless, because you are looking for money. That's when you run into trouble. So I think it's about finding balance. So I'm not saying please please, oh, I'm not saying be poor. We will never be poor in Jesus' name. That amen was too weak. But at the same time, we will not be slaves to money and materialistic things. In Jesus' name, say amen to that one too. The amen was not loud.

SPEAKER_11 43:06

It was not loud.

SPEAKER_05 43:08

Let me put a lot of things in context. Into con in context. I think it's I think if we lived in a different climb, a lot of these conversations will make sense. Let's let I don't want to get too political, but we are we're in Nigeria. And our realities, we can't run away from it. Nigeria has over a hundred and thirty million people living in poverty. Do you know the second most populous country on the continent? Does anybody know? Ethiopia. Do you know how many people they are? 130 million people. So the second most populous African nation. Has more poor people than them. When you live in a society like that, you have more people who cannot even imagine what wealth looks like in their lives. So when they see wealth, it's almost impossible not to worship it. If we lived in societies where, I mean, I have a job, I can come home. I was watching something recently. Some guy was living, it was one of those documentaries on Netflix or something. This guy lived in a trailer park. You know what trailer parks are? You're basically living in a car. He traveled twice every year. Still in that situation. And he was a plumber or something. He was able to save money and still travel on that sort of income. A data came out recently. Less than 10% of Nigerians have ever left this country. Not because they don't want to, because we're not saying that we like jackpapas, but we can't even afford it. The ones that have left, a huge number is to benefit. We can't afford a lot of these things. So we live in a space where the money conversation is inevitable. We're all driving around like now via Ikeja. There's a whole army rising of people, of young guys. We saw them brush someone's windscreen the other day. They are not begging you anymore. Do you understand what I'm saying? In fact, how dare you drive a Pradu? It's just what it is. So my point is the realistic conversation is that the money talk is not going anywhere because there's no money. So people see money as this as the status or as the symbol of power. I want to come to Chi Kade, then I want to hear from a lady. And I want to come to you because you've gone through too. I'm not coming to him for what you both think I'm coming to. Relax. Are you laughing? Because when I met you, you went through a three, two, three-year phase of nobody's signing me. I'm releasing music, nobody wants to hear me. And I know what those years were like for you and how hard it was for you. But I know your house now and I know what's where you are now. Relax, relax. That's not good. So just for the benefit of those watching, you know, sort of how do you go through that mental strength of staying the course? Because giving up is very easy.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

I still remember vividly when I put out my first album. And I think at that time we were also at a time where we go out, we see people like our senior bros here. I remember coming to you in hard rock one time, and although you even tried introducing me to a producer, I remember, I don't know if you remember vividly. And you go through all that. I remember also meeting um a daysua, and you know, just going through all that circle, just to meet somebody who's going to listen, to meet somebody who's going to help. And for me not to be biblical in any way, I remember I used to live in prime waters with my then ex-girlfriend. And and I remember the night that my album came out, it was like before 12 a.m. You know, I just I just prayed. I pretty much just said, God, I don't have anybody. Like I literally don't have anybody, and I need you to help me. That's what happened that day. Now I've tried that prayer with a couple more projects and it didn't work, but but I remember that. Projects or things, just projects. No, projects. I mean with the music, because for me it's also it's always been to a large extent, it's always been uh one-man army and well-wishers. You know, I remember my first show on Admiralty Way when I heard Aibuka has come. I didn't even know you were going to come. And I heard, ah, he's even helping arrange cheers, and I lost it. I'm like, how's he arranging tears? Why is he not ready? You know, because I've always been the one to coordinate everything myself. So I remember praying that that night I was sitting down just for the album to go live. And that night I had um, you know, this edible, the sweet. So my girl had it that time, and I was like, What was this thing? So it's not strong. I just took the whole thing and just swallowed it. And I remember smiling from year to ear. She was like, Are you excited about the album? I just kept smiling, and at some point I wasn't feeling my face. Um, I in the midst of the prayer, my brother, I just lick sweets. It's that point where you're trying to prove to the girl that that you're stronger, you know. You said you took what edible, edible, edible, yeah, like the one that comes like in the sweets. Gotcha. Okay, yeah. So sometimes I rubbish drugs.

SPEAKER_08 49:33

I just didn't, I didn't hear.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

I just didn't hear. I didn't hear. Carry on, please. Sorry. So I remember I think what made me take the whole thing was I remember she would go to the fridge, you just lick it, wrap it back, and keep us like, what is what this thing? I just I just chop pam, you know. And I remember going to radio interviews and I I was high. You know, I remember trying to jump from from the from the place. Yeah, I had all those feelings, you know, and I just thank God because now, fast forward from then, what what I wanted to establish then was all I did was just pray. I didn't know anybody, I didn't think that the music scene at that point was even open to the kind of music I was making. You know, I DM'd the OAPs I could, you know, I went, I did the interviews, but there was a part of me that just knew I just had to pray about it because I knew if it was by going anywhere and it was not gonna work. Now, over time, when you said the progress from step to step, you know my manager, Ogaga. It's pretty much just been one foot in front of the other. It it's it's it's just been one day at a time. It's not been by anybody approving you, by anybody recommending you. It's not been that. You know, I just pray. I still make um a lot of poor choices with cars, as usual, which you know. You know, I remember I I think when I realized I needed to stop, was I remember when I got my first car and I sent it to my friends. Oh, congrats, second one, congrats, the third one. They're like, okay. And some people were bold enough to tell me, nah, Zudebe Mutu, stop buying cars, you know, which I'm still doing, by the way, because then, you know, you're not in the clubs, you're not, that's that's not my scenery. You know, there's no money on drugs or alcohol for me personally. So when you ask, have I gone from I remember when I got my house in Lecky, I called you, I said, Ah, bros, this has happened. You know, so but for me, it's been small, small. And coming back to a lot of things that have been said here that resonated with me. I remember my first home at VGC. I was speaking to a friend of mine, a very close friend, Jane, and I said to her, I don't, I'm not feeling anything. Right when I was in the house, she said, I don't feel anything because I remember paying for it, you know, show after show, you know, little endorsements there, gifts, and I remember paying till it was done. And when I was home one of those nights, I wasn't feeling anything. Yeah, I just felt like I didn't, I honestly didn't feel you came. Yeah, right, and you know, she said, Don't let the devil steal your joy, celebrate. But I didn't feel anything, you know, and with the cars, when I keep going step by step, I don't feel anything. It even gets worse every time. And so for me, the joy I find is in you know, taking care of those around me, taking care of my family, you know, and also realizing that some of these things I need to keep it private because the more people know, the harder it is. You know, before, yes, you're popular in the music scene, but you could go some places, but because of the kind of music you make, the abroads are not because they know you, but they are not trying to give you that energy. But when certain things happen, they're not chasing your car, they're not, and it's just it's just too much. Yeah. So if you ask me how I've kept it from stage to stage, I've kept it by having you know somebody to always lean on. You know, I've had my parents, I've had the fact that thankfully there's certain vices that run through money that maybe I'm lucky not to have engaged in. Luckily, because you know, for the ones I'm engaging in, it's not easy. But the ones that we've not engaged in. You know, well, I mean, the ones we've engaged in, they can be expensive. Do you guys? So imagine when you add the other things. So it's been having people every year when I celebrate my birthday, is the same people, maybe somebody I'm with, you know, friends from, like I said, from when I did my first show, you were they have invited you for most of my birthdays. And I keep it simple. I just keep it as focused as I can, you know, uh, because I know that generally the public, the well-wishers, is just a matter of the momentum. It it might not be as genuine as you think. So the way I've kept it is I do my thing as private as I can. Yeah, I make my mistakes as private as I can. You know, I correct them as private as I can. And, you know, even for in the music scene, I still aspire for more. A lot more, you know. And sometimes you feel very underachieved. And sometimes you're thankful because you've seen people who are better than you who have not experienced the luxury or the comfort or the ability to provide for people around them. And you're just grateful. So if you ask me how I've done it, most of the people that have been my friends before my first album, which was the breaking album for me, they're still my friends still today. Very important to me. Today, when I have an event, a personal event, you see the same coochie for one that you know. So that's that's how I've kept it by myself.

SPEAKER_05 54:27

You you brought up something that I want to actually want to ask you about. I I've I've always heard that every man needs at least one vice. Needs one vice as an outlet. Needs I don't I wanted to say woman, but women should not be vices. You put me in trouble.

SPEAKER_08 54:53

Do you think that's that's so I actually want to ask the audience first because I saw Yemi shaking his head. Yemi, do you want to say something about this? Bisoe, please, can we can we get Bisoe the microphone?

SPEAKER_05 55:07

They say vices are an outlet. Something else will be your release.

SPEAKER_08 55:11

Bisoe, show yourself now. They don't yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:17

I know some people agree with me, but they will not accrue.

SPEAKER_06 55:21

Well, hi, uh, my name is Abisoe. And I don't think it's needs, I think it's more of like um they say they have one vice, right? In terms of there's always something that draws a man that is not necessarily. Let's just let's assume for their sake that it's just one. Those ones that have two, we pray for them.

SPEAKER_16 55:42

Oh, you have more that one is between you and God.

SPEAKER_06 55:45

But the point is, in those situations, right, I do feel like there are certain things that draw you to want to do things you're not meant to, right? And everybody has something, right? You rightfully said it. Like I I don't drink, I don't smoke, right? And I don't do edibles or any of those things. And I stayed, um Have you ever done them? No, and I stayed a virgin till I got married.

SPEAKER_05 56:05

The list is not complete, but go on.

SPEAKER_06 56:06

No, no, no. No, it it's it's he just said something. Listen, listen. Yeah, no, so I said, and I stayed a virgin till I got married, right? And it's is that the end of the list? I I don't know if there's any more, but hopefully I don't fall into it. I don't know. I don't know what the tool is actually. Funny enough, I think money is also one of it. Yes, yes, right. I think money is a vice, or the love of money is a vice, and that's why I'll say, like what team do you support? I've been brokenhearted many times by my use, so I don't do football anymore. You understand? I are you inside uh one of those betting no no, I don't bet at all. Um, but the thing about it is that it gives you joy. No, I like the question, I really do. Because like the truth is, like, what you said at the beginning. What you said at the beginning about how like everybody is trying to find happiness and money buys happiness. I'm not looking for happiness, right? Happiness is part of the things that come from the things I'm actually looking for, right? I want peace, I want something that keeps me grounded. Do you understand? Those are my own things that I look for. Now, happiness is never something that is that is long-lived, happiness is always short-lived. So I can't live my whole life looking for something that is like a drug that I get a shot of and it's like a huge high, and then I get a huge low after because I have no peace or grounding whatsoever. Like I get I like happiness, I want to be happy. You get me? And what is peace? For me, peace is literally just knowing that I am I am centered in a in something that makes me feel like I don't have anything to really struggle about or worry about. If I say it now, you say I'm a banky, but I say it as this. My own is God, my own is God. You understand? My own is God. So that's your that's my that's my own, man. That's my own. Um, and you can you can check. I don't have money like our big brothers up there, you understand? So you can't say boss. All of you up there are big bosses, so please, let's be honest. But um, for me, I think honestly, that it doesn't, you you don't need a vice, it's just something that we've been taught and we've grown up to believe, and now it's a thing of I must have I must have a vice. I need to find what it is. I don't know if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 58:17

Can we get the mic to Fregs? Fregs is not happy. I have a lot to say, but let me not talk.

SPEAKER_12 58:27

I mean, I don't think I don't think. Let me be the one to be very honest. Peace in look, whether or not you want to have peace or not, whether you are depressed or you're happy, you have to find God, period, right? So that's a giving. Do you understand? You have to find Christ however you want to find what is God to you. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 58:47

They're not making you look like the rest of us are not there.

SPEAKER_12 58:50

Jesus, I'm a Christian, right? Jesus Christ came to die for my sins, not for my poverty or for my riches. He came to die for my sins. So if I'm forgiven, that's sorted. I can never buy my sin, I can never buy my forgiveness, I can never buy my redemption. That's too expensive. No billionaire put together can buy that. So shout out to Jesus for that, right? But you see, nobody is talking about the depression. It's not even so I know we're talking about being materialistic, but what is that thin line or that when you don't cross the line of being materialistic? Because it can happen when you have money, but when there's a lack of it, you have bills. And we're not some of us are not even looking for too much money because my billionaire in front, I've fortunately flown next to him before. I felt very accomplished. Very, very well. Very, very accomplished. You know, we flew next, I was like, ah, I pretended like he was I wasn't, you know, shocked, but I was, you know, like ah, okay, I've made it. But men, we have that innate thing in us where if we're not maybe like providing, yeah, especially for those of us that are married, for example, even if you're not married. Look, I was telling Grammy just now, Bishop Oye Deco, I graduated Covenant University. And one of the last, one of no Evoka, this is good, trust me. Ebuka, the last, we used to do something called TTG. Um, it was like some life lessons that you have TTG. I can't remember, we used to call it Time to Go because we're tired of school. But it was it was a program that school did. It was like life lessons before you got into the real world. And Bishop held a service one night and he said something that he wants to teach us about the science of money. He didn't teach us about being spirit-filled, it's the science of money. I don't remember anything from that night, but you know what I remember? He said, You need to have money. He said, Look, if you're the firstborn, for example, in your family or you want to do events and you don't have money, they'll say, Oh yeah, God, please do the opening prayer. And after that, when you say, Oh, you have a contribution. Oh, you can't have anything to contribute. It's who has money that's going to make moves. But aside that, some of us just want to solve problems. And there's nothing wrong in wanting nice things. Like, look, um, I always say men are escaping something, right? I grew up in Benin. I grew up, you know, that social studies life um example of the family: mother, father, daughter, and son, small house, just normal, so that nobody looks poor. That was my life. It's not even envy or anything, it was just aspiration because I was standing Kole here. He was saying that there were some people that live in Ibado have never been to Lagos before. I was that child. I grew up in Benin. Lagos was a summer holiday, a deckbe line, you know, Bendel Line. I go to Bendel Line, you know, Bendel. I think before there was a deckbe, I used to enter Bendel Line. Before the long station wagon, and going to Benin was a that going to Lagos was, oh my god, out of the country, still later. Do you understand?

SPEAKER_16 1:01:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 1:01:46

So how do you want to talk to a man like me when I went to my grandfather's house and saw where breakfast was served in a thing that was warming the food consistently? I grew up in a house that if you didn't eat straight from the fire, that's it. That's it. So I grew up understanding that money created access. Yeah. I've grown to a space in my life that thank God for the wife I married. People ask us a lot of questions. Why don't you do some things? It's just that we decided to be grounded now. Did our faith in Christ or the kind of value system we have helped that we don't show, we don't do this, we don't do that. But but my wife, for example, asked me once. She said, This perfume that you are buying, are you sure it's not a materialistic?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:23

Are you still buying now? You stuck like today. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_12 1:02:25

Life showed me and I still didn't have it. No, no, no, I'm still there. I'm still there.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:30

Fraghead.

SPEAKER_12 1:02:30

Oh, I am a frag head and proud. However, I did stop for a while. And it's not because I didn't want it, it was because I just had to rearrange my priorities. Now, it's the people that get materialistic that don't rearrange their priorities. But money is still solving problems. But because I'm buying a materialistic thing, does it really make me materialistic? The fact that I want to people see me, oh my god, Fred, you dress so well. It's money that is going to kill the soup. I mean, chef. You want to eat nice, you're going to spend money. They're having a low barrel um conversation on social media now that joloff rice is 35 pounds. I said, God forbid, if I cook jolo fries, it would definitely be 100 pounds. So what are we paying? So money is so the thing I want us to be honest about is that men are depressed when we don't have money. We may not be billionaires or anything, but plenty of money is good. I want to buy an EV, for example. I'm not going to slap depressing and be like, look, it's only 3M I have. I have to add an extra zero at the back, at least 30 M's to be okay. So my thing is, Banky, you said you shouldn't govern your heart, it's chickeny. Please let money govern my hand. There's not enough governing it. I think what I think we should take home from this conversation so that we can maybe move to mistakes is let us desire money to solve the real problems, but have the moral standing and the heart to ensure that we are not now doing this thing to chew people in their eye. We're not doing it to validate the small person in us that hasn't healed, but money is ah that a small sense of materialism is very, very, very, very needed, in my humble opinion. That's not very humble.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:09

And to add to that, before I go to Susu, we'll come to you. It's not women's ality. But and I I I give Banky a lot of flack for this, and he's always trying to push back on it. But even a lot of even inside the church, you we see what these pastors are flying, what they are driving, what they are wearing, where they live. So it makes it harder to tell someone, like he said, that you found peace with God. But your pastor found money and God. Don't answer yet, sweet. Let's go to the body with the beard.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:02

Yeah. Um, for me, I feel like what we are discussing tonight is not really competition between poverty and money. We just have to know where to stop, where to draw the line. You want to have money.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:22

Let me ask you a question now. Sorry. Yeah. Are you a Christian? Yes. Faithful Christian or Christian?

SPEAKER_07 1:05:27

Faithful.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:29

You go to church sometime. Do you watch church on YouTube? No, I go to church. You go to church.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:34

I do both though.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:35

Do you know that I don't want to be misquoted? Yeah. Either four or six.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:43

Either four or six of the wealthiest pastors in the world are Nigerian. But it doesn't mean no, I'm my point here is in comparison. To the biggest churches away from the pastors, the top ten biggest churches in the world, there's no Nigerian church there, but the top six, the top ten wealthiest pastors have six Nigerians. Are we saying that make sense? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:21

So for me, pastors are not the standard. I hear you.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:26

And I want to debate that. No, sorry. No, no, I need to. I need to land. You know why I need to counter that? Yeah. You never let him land. In Nigeria, pastors are the standard. Anywhere else, pastors are not. In Nigeria, pastors are. I've seen a lot of countries where pastors are called out and people move on. Have you tried calling out a pastor on social media and seen the response?

SPEAKER_07 1:06:52

I get you.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:53

Thank you. Go on.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:54

So for me, um, pastors are not the standard for you, for me, and I'm a Christian, so and I am also a Nigerian. So pastors are not the standard. But what I am trying to say is the comparison is not between poverty and riches. Um, to be honest, I've been on the both sides. I came from the village where I do say it all the time that where I came from, it is not ideal to prosper. Yes, so when you prosper, you do so well, you look like a miracle. Right? And I've I left that place to where I am today. And I can tell you that um at some point I became like one of the leading persons in my industry. And all through when I was in the village till that time, I never experienced the depression until two years ago. I was already doing well. When people see me, they feel like you are a miracle. But I didn't experience depression all through that season, but I experienced depression when I had it. Right? So I checked for the difference between joy and happiness, and I think that's where we are making a lot of mistakes. There's a difference between happiness and joy. See, money can give you happiness, and I think that is that feeling that we kept talking about. But joy said, the difference between joy and happiness is that happiness is often dependent on circumstances. Why joy comes from within and remains where even when circumstances are difficult. Alright? So you have to understand that. See, I do tell people we often leave substance and wishes after shadows. And at the end of the day, what will really matter is the substance, because we are hardworking and to some extent we've made money. If all that it is to our life is the money we make, at the end of the day, what will be the meaning, if all I live for is money. Right? Because you if you work really well, you you do the right things, you are going to have the money. But if there is no meaning attached to it, money can never bring fulfillment.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:20

So if there's meaning attached to it, it's okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:22

It's okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:23

Thank you.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:24

Yeah, if there's meaning attached to it, find the meaning. So you have to understand that money can never satisfy you. So before now, I what changes between 2000 and 2024 and 2026 for me, it is that I remove my like my joy, I detach it from achievement. So I discover that I always have goals that I pursue. Right? And these things are taken away a lot of things for me. I never I no longer do things that bring happiness to me. I just keep pursuing like achievements, certain things I want to do. And the moment I get this thing done in the back, I feel the happiness for a little while, and everything changes. I'm back to where I used to be. Okay, okay. Then you start pursuing another thing. All right. Then I feel like no matter what I make, no matter the achievements, nothing is gonna change. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:23

Yeah, it'll be like you who confidence is different. Should we allow a woman speak?

SPEAKER_09 1:10:33

Yes, yes, okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:39

See how she's eyeing me with. I can't even tell her no. Can we get the mic to our day so please? She's ready for me.

SPEAKER_10 1:10:48

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to We Mentality. Okay. Um, I think if I've heard what everybody has said, like like my brother here said, that it's not a discussion about money versus poverty. I think it's we can generally agree that money answers a lot of questions and is a solution to quite a bit of problems, right?

SPEAKER_08 1:11:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:11:15

I think what I think about when I think about money is how to balance ambition with contentment. And I think that more than anything else is if I'm when I'm in the place where I'm searching for the next level that I'm going to, how do I balance that ambition with being content with where I am? And I think also as a nation, we generally are not, we don't spend a lot of time talking about being introspective and interrogating your why. What is your why for why you need this money? Like this thing that you're chasing, what is your why? I feel like if we spend more time spending time with ourselves and interrogating our whys, then the conversation kind of shifts from the oh, I need money to why do I need the money? What am I looking for? You want to say something?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:10

Not to cut you off. Do you think it's different for women?

SPEAKER_10 1:12:13

Um from men. It must be because I also feel like societally pressure is placed on men more as providers. And that's a given. We're going through a lot. And that's absolutely. And we are going through, and I don't negate that, right? Which is why I'm saying when we're having money conversations, we should shift away from oh, poverty versus nobody wants you to live in poverty, nobody wants you to be poor. We want to see you guys succeed succeed, but you have to know your whys, and you have to know your limits, and you have to draw the line between what I will do and what I will not do to get this money.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:49

You are not in the data scene, so I can ask you this question. No, keep your own.

SPEAKER_10 1:12:55

She's off the markets. Sorry. Ah, breaking news. I'm joking, calm down.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:02

So, for me, and I ask this because I hear a lot of feedback from young people who are in that space.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:11

I got you.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:14

How easy is it to tell a girl I need to know the why?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:22

As a guy, as a guy, okay, because I was asking why I will be asking.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:29

I know what I see on social media, and a lot of young guys complain about the fact that relationships have become so freaking transactional. Right, you can't talk to a girl for more than 10 minutes without having to prove what is in your pockets. Am I lying or am I lying? Thank you. So I don't want this to I don't want this to devolve into a relationship conversation, but you I hear you are this one, but I've been told that this is how we reason before this. Uh the you're not in you have left the streets since told me, am I in the streets? Banky use music to you know I don't know if music is working now. So, Jemima, like am I in the streets? I do I know. My question is really just on what she mentioned, men feel more pressure, which is why we're having this conversation anyway about materialism. So, is it true that men have no choice but to be more materialistic? Because men or women or society, family, everybody is putting pressure on you to make money much more than you.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:54

If I'm being very honest, the simple and short answer is yes. Thank you. Let's move on to the answer. The simple and short answer is yes, but if we're going a step you know deeper, um why are you living your life based on society? Because the same society that is putting the pressure on you and is hailing you when you have it will be the first to drag you when you don't have it. And I think, which is why I wanted us to talk about mistakes. You will learn from your mistake. The first time or the first two or three times you've allowed yourself to listen and dance to the tune of society, you have to sit and tell yourself the truth and decide. And that's when you end up in the why, what your why is, because after doing it the way it looks like it's supposed to be for so long, you're doing what it looks like everybody else is doing, what society is telling you to do, but you're not getting that sense of fulfillment. I believe the wise thing to do is sit and talk to yourself, and that's where your why comes in, where you pause and be like, okay, what am I doing and why am I doing it? This society that I'm what was the end point, and that's where I think the why comes in. So it's a matter of maybe you won't have your why immediately, like somebody else who's figured things out from the beginning, but something will trigger you to your why. It can be shame, can be, you know, going from 100 to zero. There's people who have made a ton of money, play to society, you're popping bottles in the club, they're hailing you, you're happy, you're training on Instagram, and then you don't have any more, and all these people are nowhere to be found. The next money that enters your hand, you'll be stupid to go and blow it the same way. So you will sit and find a why, one way or the other. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:41

Well, let's see, with mentality.

SPEAKER_16 1:16:44

With mentality, we heal thee.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:47

It's not easy. You asked you asked a question about the church, and I don't want to be the only person here, because I feel like on this show, part of my job is to defend to defend to be on God's defense team. But I know we we do have a few um men of God in the building, and one of them we have Pastor Jude here from TPH. Um, so if we can if we can give him the microphone. So Ibuka, you know, put the church on the spot and said, you know, something very stark that six out of the ten wealthiest pastors in the world are Nigerian. Meanwhile, meanwhile, there's no Nigerian church that's the biggest in the top ten. In the top ten. Okay. So I don't know if you want to speak to just, I guess this. And TPH is I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:41

I don't know if you want to speak to just a great great work. Good evening, guys. Great work you're doing. Um, two of you, can we just put our hands together for this amazing? Pastor would be very so two things. First, I am not the defender of the body of Christ. It's got enough moral standing to speak for itself. But I would I would say that there are essences that are worth worthy of speaking about, right? The focus in in building a church should be on how to improve the lives and the living state of the people using the gospel and not to enrich oneself. That should be the focus. That is the mentality we have, that is the what we believe in. That being said, your data is very accurate, it's worried some, and we're hoping that as we engage in these conversations like the ones you're stirring up today, we would be realigning our priorities, right? I want to correct something, however, right? That the gospel and God is not opposed to wealth. We can't see. Okay, the first guy who God chose, I just give you a very simple example. You know, it's a dangerous thing to give a pastor the mic, right? But the first guy who God chose to work with on the pathway of faith, his name was Abraham. I don't want to describe his wealth, I don't want to talk about Solomon level, right? I'm talking about Abraham. One man, his wealth was such that he has he had an army in his house that could take on four nations. One man. So God is not opposed to people building capacity. Hold on, Ebuka, you gave me the mic. God is not opposed to people building capacity. I just love what Adisuwa said. Adisuwa said you must find a meaning to your mission. And if all of us know that for every mission you have, there are enabling factors. Money can be one of them. But your meaning, your why, I like the way they put it, your why must be very clear to you. Money and God are not mutually exclusive. That's my point there. But back to the conversation of materialism, I just want to chip in a few cents, if you don't mind, right? Um, the pressure is on us as men. And I particularly came for this because I need more people, we need more people to talk about what we men face. Culturally, there's just so much expectation for men. And you are right to say that that has pushed a lot of people over the urge. Um, we we live in a society also where I'm just repeating some of the things we said, where people don't ask you the means to why how you got to where you are. And as long as you're making it, it's okay. And we are saying on this show, it's no longer okay. You see, you're stirring up some very good conversation. The means must be as good as the end in itself. Nobody's saying you should not aspire to be great, but your greatness should be towards an end to make a difference. You are making a difference with mentality. Amen. You are stirring up the money is not complete, but okay. This is the point I was coming to. If you keep at it long enough, the money will follow. If you keep at it, he told us, TV told us, right? There was a time he was making it, faking it to make it, right? But he realized that okay, we it's not giving me the satisfaction I want. Let me be true to myself. And soon enough, he did it, doesn't need to fake it to to brand four brands on him right now, right? So, so we what we are saying is that's five, it's five, right? Stay on it long enough, let value come out from you to others, money will follow. Trust me. Does it always though?

SPEAKER_05 1:22:07

In Nigeria, it does not follow. Let's talk. So, I know what should be, and I keep saying this in this place, which is how I was raising my hand. You talk about which uh disciple?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:21

It's not a disciple, which apostle, it wasn't a follower. Yeah, okay. Okay, it was a patriot, Abraham. Who are you talking about? Abraham, Abraham, now now let me let's sit, let's sit on that issue of value for a bit. Yeah, this is what I mean. If you put value out there long enough, it would attract value as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:46

Okay, I I don't want to make this about the church, so let me let me just stop that. But I think for me, why this church conversation is important, which is why Banke and I are doing this, is because Nigeria is easily one of the most religious countries in the world. We might be many things, but you see, church, mosque, we don't play. And I needed someone who could let people understand that you might be religious, but do you actually know why you are religious? And I've um I've enjoyed a lot of Banky's analysis over a lot of episodes, right?

unknown 1:23:31

Very good, very good.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:32

It's a big work, even though he's not drinking with me anymore. I'm looking for water ambassadorship, but I was trying to stop you there because I mean I I hear what you say about Abraham, he was wealthy, God called him, he did his thing. But here, we don't hear about the wealth before they call, you know. It's after the calling we hear about the wealth. The wealth almost sort of comes from. But I don't want to make this about the church, right? Which is why I said I was going to stop there. Um, and I also don't want to make this an entire conversation about money versus poverty, like Ivona Deso has said, and everybody else has said. The crux of this is how materialistic we are as Nigerians, men and women, but maybe more men, because pressure makes us more materialistic, and we can't help it. So moving slightly away, because I want us to touch a little a little bit on mistakes, right? And um let's not dig too deep on the money conversation, and I I saw one data I wanted to share. You might find it, you might find this a little interesting. Okay, um relationships are a big talking point with a lot of young people right now, and I was looking at divorce data globally and a lot of divorces. I think it was in America, yes. Over I'm not sure if it was sixty-five or seventy percent of divorces are initiated by women in the marriages, but in Nigeria there's no data because we don't really know we don't keep that sort of data. What we know though is that a lot of divorces in this part stem from either domestic violence, financial situations, or demands around sexual needs. And it almost feels like it means it's the men that are because when you hear domestic violence, who do you think of? When you hear of sexual needs, who do you think of? Also, in the six geopolitical zones in Nigeria, who can guess who has the highest divorce rate? Southwest, south, south, northeast, northwest. Who has the highest?

SPEAKER_08 1:26:20

Southwest.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:21

The highest divorce rates. Northwest, why? Southwest. Tell us now, you have the statistic. Why Southwest? Lagos men, they say cheating is not a deal breaker in Nigeria based on data. So what when you say Lagos men, is that what you're talking about? So take that away. Is this a Lagos men? Uh-huh. There's only post it even when they cheat on you. Anyway, number one is the South South. The highest divorce rate. Yes. Really? Times people. Number one, South South, 7.2% of marriages end in divorce so far, which is very low by global standards. 7%. Oh, that's very low by global standards, but very high by Nigerian standards. Because most other regions are under like 4%. A lot of the northern regions are other 1% or like around 1%. But domestic violence is a big factor. Dishonesty about financial status or financial conversations and sexual demands are some of the biggest reasons why.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:49

Um man, I don't I don't I don't know how to comment on it.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:53

Mistakes, you wanted mistakes.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:55

Well, you know, I think when it comes to the discussion. Of finances in the context of a marriage. And I've done, you know, just being a pastor in the church now for a few years, I've had to counsel quite a few couples, you know, from various congregations that I've served in. And I found that more often than not, when there are disagreements in marriage about finance, it's not really a money issue, it's a trust issue. And I think the money just becomes the symptom or the thing that shows that there are underlying trust issues in the marriage. I think the way that God designed marriage, it's supposed to be a covenant, not a contract. And that means you take up more responsibilities for your family and your spouse and your wife or your husband, and you give up more of your rights. And I think unfortunately, so many times we get into marriages not with a covenant mindset, but with a contract mindset. And a contract means I'm protecting my rights and I'm limiting my responsibilities. And when you get into it in that situation, if one or both partners are not on that same page, you will start to have issues. In an ideal world, you should be open, honest, and vulnerable with your partner. She should know where you are, you know, he should know where you are. You should be working together because you are two parts of the same team trying to build a future for yourselves and your kids. But when there are trust issues, and then you start to have this, well, I need to look out for myself, I need to, you know, protect what I have, and you find out that you are now living as opponents in the same home, then it then results in finance being an issue. Whereas if you work on the underlying trust issues, then finance automatically doesn't really become a problem because you're both you both know that you're on the same side and you're working to the same. Sorry for breaking.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:03

Did you trust Susu before marriage or after marriage?

SPEAKER_08 1:30:09

I think I definitely trust.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:10

And I'm you know, trust is we're not saying oh I like her. I like trust.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:14

No, I think that there's definitely a place where you grow, right? I mean, if you don't trust somebody, why would you vow to spend the rest of your life in the first place? And if you don't trust them, you should never take that step. Now, over time, you grow in trust. You grow in love, you grow, you know, it's not a it's not a you know one size fits all situation where you come in, you trust them, and that's it. No, you you you go through things together. Life will throw challenges at you, you'll stand by each other in difficult times, and your trust and your love and your bond will grow stronger. But there should be, especially for those who are single, there should be a certain level of trust that exists for you to want to go into a marriage in the first place. And if you don't have that, then you should be having a more important conversation as to whether you should even be considering getting married in the first place. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:12

I I I've been told that this generation will have fewer marriages than any other generation before them. Is it true?

SPEAKER_08 1:31:24

Probably.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:24

Yeah, why is that? Because we are talking mistakes, right? You should be able to make mistakes and learn from them and then commit. Yeah, but it looks like we're in an era now where nobody wants to even try to make those mistakes and learn from them. Nobody is saying you must marry, but why is nobody you put before you even trying? You've already said we don't want. Can we get the microphone to our dekunle? What do you say?

unknown 1:31:57

Some of us have tried.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:00

At least you tried. But I'm saying this generation doesn't even want to try.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:06

Go on. So this particular generation is afraid of marriage.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:11

That's your generation, or yes, okay, because there's no good example ahead of us.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:17

You said there's no good example, not absolute, but stand on business, don't change your mind. So a lot of people are afraid of being heartbroken. A lot of people, what we have now is a lot of just the generation ahead of us, their marriages are collapsing. And if you do a bit, if you just go back a bit, a lot of people grew up in single parent households. So the idea of uh a perfect family or what an example of love is doesn't necessarily exist. What happens, what we have now is, and it's a bit unfortunate, but we have only just a few celebrity marriages that are still um going strong, and that's what a lot of people look up to. And it's not a lot, for example. Now, I I was gonna talk to Freggs after this and all that, because the truth of the matter is we need more people to speak about why marriages are is that more on you men?

SPEAKER_05 1:33:15

No, well, this so on on that one, it has to go back to money, has to go back to money because you need money to marry now, not necessarily not inside the markets, it's people that are dating that are talking.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:34

Back then, back then and now it's difficult.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:37

But I'm married, put the mic in his mouth. Let me hear us.

SPEAKER_12 1:33:40

I'm saying that money is very good for marriage, though, but that's not the ultimate thing you need to get married as well. It's very good, though. But I'm just saying that you don't need I was just saying that it doesn't need to really get back to money because the real reason for successful marriages is not really exactly money. Money plays a fantastic role, a very good one, but it's not the ultimate thing, I promise you.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:03

We need more people who are married to say this.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:06

So I have a question for you, Aide Kule. Because you said first you said there are no examples of good marriages, and then you said okay, it's not absolute. So my question is, and maybe it's not to you, but it's to everybody, is is it possible that the bad marriages make so much more noise?

unknown 1:34:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:30

If you want to clap, clap with your foot chest. Um, thank you. No, but but I mean he just read us the stats on the divorce rates, right? And at high seven percent is not crazy. Is it is is there a possibility that good marriages exist? They're just protecting what's important to them and they are not louding it.

SPEAKER_16 1:34:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_08 1:34:52

Whereas when there's a scandalous divorce or a breakup, it's on every blog because bad news, I think it was Mark Twain that said bad news travels around the world before the truth has a chance to put on its shoes. Because we're we we maybe we're just in this era where because bad news trends and it travels, a minute something happens, it goes everywhere. It's on every blog, it's on every news site. Meanwhile, there's a husband and wife that are waking up, loving each other, going to work, loving their kids, building a healthy home, and they're not on any blog, they're not on any social media site, and they're just facing themselves and the marriage that they have.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:34

And I think internet reason to talk about it.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:37

Yeah, so is there a world in which we're paying so much attention to the bad that we don't realize that there's so much good in front of our faces that we're not even looking at?

SPEAKER_05 1:35:48

Exactly, that's it. So are you guys is it a social media problem or a man problem? So um or a woman problem?

SPEAKER_04 1:35:57

Um, I think it's about or a money problem. If you it's maybe 25% of everything. So here's the thing, right? Um, there are people, everybody uses social media these days. If it is to maybe decide on what to eat, pick out an outfit, find out what's going on on the internet, or they want to use AI to figure something out. Everybody's on their phone trying to figure out what's going on. If unfortunately, the information that people have on the internet is the divorce rates, you know, news about somebody's bad marriage, um, maybe couples beating each other up or something just ending really, really bad. The people who consume content from the internet, that's all they're going to consume because the good that is happening is being sheltered from the internet. And I understand why you don't want to. I am honestly, I personally believe that if something makes sense between two people, you don't need to share it with the rest of the world. But unfortunately, we now live in a society where people take off the things that they consume from the internet. So if we say we want to help protect the next generation or we want to preach that marriage is all good, or you know, the institution of marriage is actually still beautiful, we actually need examples of people who are living it to show us.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:05

I want to I I'm gonna come to Dortmund before that. I well Jean Viev. Genevieve. Can we get a mic to her? I know she's not particularly ready, but I want to hear from you because there's a lot of like flack that this younger generation gets for what the dating scene looks like and how money is the center of every single conversation. Um and I hear a lot from women, whether it's on social media or one-on-one, talking about well, it is what it is, right? And I think for me, there's and for a lot of men, there's that confusion of do you want us to provide or do you want equality? Because feminism is also inside it, right? Yeah, oh, we need to split the bills, but at some point it's also not splitting bills, you need to take care of me. When does that line now become that? And I not inside the streets, but a lot of young men are confused about how this works now. I don't know if you have any insights on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:21

Um mentality with woman talit, shout out to us.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:27

This was not easy.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:29

Um I don't know. I just feel like there's like our current society, like where we are, like Africa, you know, I think the infrastructure that we have is sort of a problem. I think if there were more things that empowered women, um there would be less of the idea that all men are the providers, and that's where we lean towards. And um yeah, and I think that's just maybe, you know, there is that side of the conversation where I think that women um can be more ambitious and not and less reliant on a man.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:10

It's back to what I said earlier about how the country is the problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:15

Yes, we have an infrastructure problem for sure. Because outside of the country, the conversation isn't like, oh, you're taking, you're taking it's a privilege to for the man to pay 100% of the bill. Um but ideally the conversation is always 50-50, there's always a support, there's always a partnership um in relationships. Um there's always this idea that you go into a relationship that is leading to marriage because you hope that that relationship will grow and you grow together. Um, we don't want that, we can't have that in this side of the world. Um, so yeah, there is that imbalance. Um, so it's it's it's left for everyone to just choose how they decide and how they choose um to experience life and love.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:00

My wife is ready for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:02

Oh.

SPEAKER_13 1:40:03

I just wanted to add because I'm part of this new generation, right? And there's the side of marriage where we see crashing, obviously, the examples, like Ajikunli rightfully said. Um, but Banki also mentioned, oh, there are good marriages. It's probably that we don't hear about it. The truth is, we hear the tea about these good marriages and what is actually going on in those marriages, and the long suffering that is happening in those marriages, about how there is infidelity going on from the husband, from the wife. We also hear of oh, the man doesn't have enough money.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:42

Okay, why are you smiling?

SPEAKER_13 1:40:43

But the woman is no longer ready to stay in the marriage anymore, and then she leaves after a couple of years because the man cannot provide for her according to the standards that she has or that she she's come up with. So those are the things that we hear as well. There is the marriages that are actually crashing and ending in divorce that we see, but also some of these good marriages that we hold up to a high standard or that are at the pillow, they're not we we hear the the T. So there's also that you do I have a I have a question for Maya.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:16

So does that mean that we should can't we have agency, Jason? Can't we like decide what we want from a marriage, what we want from a partner, and then go for that and just trust that's what we desire and how we plan our lives will work out? Must we must we believe that the data is?

SPEAKER_13 1:41:33

I mean we can, we can, but if the data shows that most of it doesn't actually work out, then nobody is. But that's my that's a hold on.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:44

So my let me push back. Let me push back because categorically your statement is false. Because the data doesn't show that most marriages don't work out. In fact, the data shows that most marriages do work out. I would also say that you need to. I would ask a question about where your focus is because if you are focusing on the tea, as you put it by being or twin. If you are focusing on the tea in a handful of situations, it's sweet. It's like spending all day in the gutter and wondering why you are smelling. Uh-uh. No, I'm not, I'm I'm just saying that you know, there's a a world in which if you choose to consume that information, then that information will be there.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:38

But it goes back to what you were saying about what's put out and what is real.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:42

Exactly. Like I'm I'm not now I'm not saying that they're.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:45

I mean a good marriage is boring gist, let's be honest.

SPEAKER_08 1:42:47

It's boring, like it's like it's not exciting, it's not, it doesn't trend and I'm not saying I'm not saying that that bad marriages don't exist or divorce or any of those things. But I do think that one is given so much attention and airtime in the world we live in. Yeah, and you also need to be careful because some of it is not even true. And you consume it and it will go all around the world, and then people will just move on. And it will just be like, okay, it's another thing that's in the gist blogger sphere. So I think, you know, again, it's what you as a person decide that you want to consume. You know this thing about the algorithm, right? If the algorithm tracks you looking for sports, eventually that's all you'll see on your timeline is basketball and football and Arsenal winning the Premier League or shake gunners for life. This room is divided. Um but I think if if that's what you go for, then that's more of what you will see. So if you are going for scandals and tea and gossip and bad news, you will get more of that. But that doesn't mean that the good doesn't exist and the data. I thank you. And I would also I also want to say something. I think part of the reason I think, and I could be wrong, but I think something else to consider as to why maybe people are not so um excited about marriage, aside from you know having many bad examples that are dominating the news cycle. I think marriage is probably the greatest character-building institution. Calm down. Marriage is probably the greatest character building institution. So if you go into a marriage self-centered, it's all about me, it's you know, and I'm not saying everybody that goes into marriage has that mindset, but I am saying that you can't approach it in that way. And if one or both partners have that kind of self-centered mindset, it's harder because character building, by definition, will cost you, it will hurt, it will require sacrifice, it will require some level of pain, it will require, you know, you have God will use the two of you to sharpen each other and you will go through things together. And I think that if you can go through those experiences and come out on the other side, you will find that not only will your love be stronger, but as a person, you'll be wiser, you'll be tougher, you'll be more resilient, you'll you'll come out as a better person. But the world that we live in today, I wonder if we've we've we've embraced this, like, and and and it's a it's a balance, right? Like you do want to love yourself, you do want to prioritize yourself, self-love is important. But if you're going to make a marriage work with somebody, there is a measure of putting yourself down that you have to accept. There's a measure of saying, I'm going to value somebody else's uh position at least as much as I value my own, if not more. And if both partners have that mindset that you know what, I'm going to prioritize my wife or my husband, I'm going to put him or her first, I'm going to try, then that's when a marriage works because you have two people who are imperfect, but they are trying because they found somebody and something worth trying for. And that really is what it's about. It's two imperfect people finding someone that you want to fight for and try for and build with. And if you have that, man, marriage can end up being the most beautiful thing that you experience in life. It will have its tough times, but it will end up beautiful. But if you don't want to embrace that mindset, or in some cases, one person does and the other person doesn't. But the more that you can get both people rowing in that direction, yes, you'll butt heads, you'll have your tough times, but you'll come out of it better off as individuals and as a as a unit. And with these few points of mind.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:38

This one is what? This one is what? Two of them I cannot be clocked. This one is eight. This one is clocked. I'm sorry. Um we need to start sort of winding this down, but um I think I don't need to convince anybody here to say that we are all guilty of liking the mess. You are not gonna click on too many cute marriage stories. Once you see that, oh, this wife said this about the husband, you are going to go there. You want to know the gist. So unfortunately, what trends, what goes viral, what looks like the standard of what a marriage or relationship is, becomes the dirt or the mess. Um, and like we live in an age where virality, everybody's chasing virality, everybody's chasing content creation, everybody wants to go that route, right? So good news is not sweet like that, whether we like it or not. Um to sort of start winding this down. I'm very I know I've I've sort of been joking here a lot about a lot of these money conversations, but I needed to do that because I know a lot of us here and a lot of Nigerians in general, when we Nigeria is a country of forums, conferences, seminars. We are great at those things, but we know how we feel when we get back home or when we are driving back home is still about how much you get. We cannot deny it. How much do you have? And like you said at the start of this thing, you don't want to. Sound preachy, and I don't want this to be a preaching situation. I want people to live here, not necessarily changing their lives, but also understanding that it's okay to love money, but it's also important to realize that money shouldn't rule you at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_08 1:50:19

Well said.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:21

I uh I will never tell anybody that money is not important. I can never tell any Nigerian to leave money and be looking anywhere else. Because whether you like it or not, it defines a lot of our personality and who we are. Now, whether you now make it your personality and you're making it define your entire existence is a whole other conversation. But at the end of the day, it is a huge factor in how we operate as Nigerians. And I wanted this conversation to help us realize that money is important, but it's not who you are in totality. We've heard from people who've made money, who've lost money, who have been defined by money, and ultimately I think the general message is it's important, but it's not you. And do we have any Yahoo boy here? Do we have any ex-Yahoo boy here? Somebody's raising the hands. Did you do Yahoo before? Do we have any ex-Yahoo boy? Timini, who don't stop? Do we have anybody who's dated a Yahoo boy? You don't have to call his name. Why? Do you know anything about him? Do we have anybody who's dated a Yahoo boy? You don't have to mention his name. Everybody's trying to bomb some right. Like you said, we don't want to sound preachy, but we can't lie to ourselves. Yahoo boys dictate the club culture, dictates a lot of the lifestyle culture, dictates a lot of the car culture, the sports lecky rents for people. People cannot rent anything anymore. So it's very hard for you to walk up to anybody and tell them, don't be materialistic. Life is a journey. But I see why people are the way they are. And at the end of the day, people do what they need to do. Um my director has been telling me to wrap this up for the last hour. Thank you very much, everyone, for being a part of this conversation. We have plenty of drinks for you. We have a lot to eat and drink. We have plenty of people here who have sense. I'm not saying they are not materialistic, but you can share to them without talking about money first. Let's interact, hang out, have a good time. Um, big shout out, big shout out, big shout out to Schwepps. Thank you very much, Shwepps, for being a part of this. Big shout out to the Glenn Leavett. And I do this not because I want to shout out sponsors, but being sensible is boring, and I'm sure a lot of you have felt it this evening. It's like they talk, it's not trendy, it's not fun to talk about things that are sensible, things that matter. It's easier to find, and I said at the beginning of the show, and I'll say it again. If I wanted to have a million views on YouTube every week, it's very easy. It's very easy because these conversations are everywhere, and I know everybody I need to call to have this conversation, but there's also something happening. A lot of us here are not parents yet, but a lot of our kids are growing up, and we'll grow up in a world where what we thought was weird or abnormal is now normal. And you don't want to wake up in a country or a continent or a world where in 15, 20, 30 years' time a lot of the things you thought were abhorrent are the norm. Let us not dwell too much on trends, on what we think is cool, but what is important. Sometimes the boring things are what matters the most, especially even in marriages. Anyone who's married for a long time will tell you that some of the most amazing times are the times where they just sat together saying nothing. Boring times might not might sound I mean, literally boring, but those are the times that define it out of who we are. And I'm not gonna lie to you, I'm kind of worried about where we are heading. Politicians, businessmen, Nigerians, Gen Z, millennials, Gen X, whoever we are, we're making a lot of mistakes and we are washing in a lot of the wrong things. And there's a need to realign a lot of that.

SPEAKER_08 1:56:52

You want me to say something? Um, I think this has been an interesting conversation. Thank you to everybody who has contributed and everybody who made time to be here. God bless you guys. I I think just my final thought is that we've said this all evening. This is not a debate between having money and poverty. You know, we don't wish poverty on anybody, and yes, chase your dreams. No, no problem. So, yes, chase your dreams, you know, go after it and be successful by God's grace. However, when you elevate money to the point where you are looking to it for identity, for significance, for salvation, then you are asking money to do a job that only God can do. And that's where I'll stop. Sorry, I had I start with God, I end with God. Take me as I am, you know this.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:52

It's not a church, it's not a church, it's not where we're here. Ronaldo did not score, by the way. For Ronaldo fans in the house, the match has ended one month. He did not score.

SPEAKER_08 1:58:05

That's another show. Come back next week.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:10

Did he score today? I love Ronaldo Pansy, but he doesn't score. He did not score, relax, ladies and gentlemen. We're gonna do a sports episode. All the superstars have showed up this World Cup. Ronaldo did not score, and I'm a money united fan, so it's hard for me to say that. Thank you very much, everyone, for being here today. Um, this was sort of an experiment to see what a live episode will look like. This will be on YouTube very soon. Um, we don't have all the answers. We say this every episode. Yeah, we are learning as we go. Me, I'm in the world. I'm a child of God, but I'm in the world. Banky is a pastor. So every time I talk, he's always judging me. He'll be looking at me and saying, This boy, this boy, come out, come back into the house of the Lord, ladies and gentlemen. Um, it's a pleasure. Like I said at the start of this, this was sort of an experiment to see what a live episode would look like. Um I know a lot of you have questions, a lot of you have things to say, but ultimately this is an ongoing conversation. We don't have a lot of spaces where men are able to talk like this. And I'm hoping this continues um for a few more seasons.

SPEAKER_08 1:59:47

Amen.

SPEAKER_05 1:59:48

Banky will keep preaching, I'll keep trying to attack you. We'll be here. Money is important to everyone like Nigeria. Our pastors get money. We'll see this on the YouTube very soon. Thank you very much, guys.