Deep Thoughts with Holly and Hailey
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Deep Thoughts with Holly and Hailey
Generational Trauma
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This week we dive into family and generational trauma.
Welcome to Deep Thoughts with Holly and Haley. This episode focuses on breaking the cycle of generational trauma.
SPEAKER_00A quick disclaimer: while we do have a background in mental health care, we are not your licensed mental health providers. If you're in need of professional mental health care, please reach out to a local office near you. If you're in crisis, please dial 911 or 988 for immediate assistance.
SPEAKER_01Sydney? Sydney, yes.
SPEAKER_00Sydney, Sydney. Really? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, I don't think so. Maybe. She didn't say where she's from, so we don't know. It could be. Um just asking, how in the world do you break the cycle of generational trauma? Um, especially when the trauma is pretty intense, pretty severe. So that's a great question.
SPEAKER_00That's a that's a that's a big question. It's a heavy one. It's a really big question.
SPEAKER_01I it's interesting that she writes that because um I was just talking about that with um a friend of mine about how do you break it? Um I think first that honestly you can't change what you don't see.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think the biggest part is acknowledging it that it is trauma. And knowing like the pitfalls and triggers.
SPEAKER_01And, you know, do I want to repeat these same patterns in my family? Recognizing, like, okay, ooh, that didn't feel good. Right. And how do I break this? Which is hard. Yeah. It's extremely hard because it almost I mean, literally, it's in your DNA. I mean, so to be able to change behavior is really challenging. Um, and it sometimes it's kind of in that primal piece of yourself. I find that sometimes even being a parent, as educated as I think I am, and as understanding, sometimes my dad'll come out in in talking to my son. Yeah. And I hate that and I don't like that. And I think that not that my father was physically abusive or anything like that, um emotionally abusive, yes. Right. Um, but I I find, you know, sometimes I'll I'll be like, oh my god, that sounds like something my dad would have said when I was a kid, and I have to stop myself because I don't like that. So I think sitting with the feeling of, oh my gosh, I just said that, I don't like how that feels. Right. And it's also fair to in that moment say, I was wrong, and I apologize.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's a huge thing. Like being able to apologize to your family, your kid, your spouse, your partner, whoever, um, when you're wrong is important. Um now, one thing that I have learned that I do, um, and it was a strat we joke about it now, but it was like a coping strategy for me as a kid, um, because I I'm super close to my mom, like my mom and I have a really great relationship, but she and my brother's the same way. They could argue with a signpost, as the saying goes. And when they are, and both of them are this way, and I've said this to her before, so if you're listening to me, mom, you know this about yourself, and I'm just now airing it out. Um but for the world to hear it's fine. Um she doesn't care, no, um, would argue with a signpost, and when they're in that mode, like they are right no matter what. Like and then So don't even try. So don't even try. And I learned that probably in like early high school, that that to get her to quit arguing with me, I would just agree with her. Because she wants somebody to fight with, yeah, and I would just agree, and I'd be like, Yeah, you're right. Or whatever. And so, and it took her kind of a little, like a few, and we didn't we didn't argue often, like this was not an often occurrence. Um, but it took her a few times to be like, are you disagreeing with me to get me to shut up? And I'm like, absolutely yes.
SPEAKER_01And that is that typical conflict resolution, we call it dropping the rope. Yep, not um getting into those power struggles.
SPEAKER_00And it was it'd be so funny because she would after I moved out, like I went to college and she would call me um because my brother was still at home, and she would be like, I need you to fix your brother, I need you to teach him your ways. And that was never gonna happen because they were way too similar. Like if they got into some sort of and it was never about anything serious, um, or like again, like they have a really close relationship too. Like, I'm very lucky with the relationship with my parents. Um, but that was something I learned that I was like, oh, yep, I just have to agree to get, you know, this this cycle to end. Exactly. And I find myself now with my partner he does the same thing to me.
SPEAKER_01Really?
SPEAKER_00Like, I'll be like, Wow, like I'll call, not like call him on something, but I'll be like, hey, that was really annoying, or like like be quote unquote. We don't really argue that much because we're both pretty chill. Because you're both perfect. We're both perfect. Um, no, but we we don't really argue a lot. Um, but when we do, he's very quick to disagree with me. Like, oh yeah, you're right, I'm I'm I'm that was my bad, I'm sorry. I'm like, what but he hates conflict, he's conflict at first. And that's from his childhood having dealt with conflict in you know his own family, and so he's very avoidant of it. Where I was like, I need you to fight with me about this, and it's never again anything serious, but then he does the same thing to me that I did as a kid to my mom, and I'm like, this is the worst, because like how do you you can't fight with him? Yeah, like you and I would tell my brother, I'm like, listen, when she's on a roll, you just have to agree because it's the only way it'll still be like a big thing. She's wrong. She's wrong, and you have to tell her she's wrong. Yeah. Yes. Um, so that was a skill. That was and I think sometimes that's harder to recognize as and I wouldn't even call that generational trauma. It's just some sort it's just like a a generational skill.
SPEAKER_01Well, and it's it's how do people in your family handle conflict? Yeah. How do they handle stress? How do they handle different things that come up, you know? Maybe, you know, your mom needs to talk about it, share her opinion, share what's, you know, like she has to share it right now, you know. Um my kiddo, he is very talk about drop the rope, dude. He is like stubborn, my way or the highway. This is what I think, it's it's right no matter what, you know, and so I just go, okay, honey. Just and he's like, but mom, you know, and I'm just like, okay, honey. Just I don't I don't comment further, I don't say anything else. Like, okay. And uh, do I think he's wrong? Absolutely, right? But I have also learned with him that he wants that. He wants you to just egg it on, you just keep on going, and that's ridiculous. And I think that the the thing that a lot of people get into in these power struggles is feeling like if I drop the rope, they win. Right. If I don't engage in this fight, I am telling them that okay, yep, they are right, that that I don't have a say in this fight, I don't get a voice.
SPEAKER_00Right. And I think for me it's always been if I do that, if I disengage, it almost feels like not that I've won, but it does kind of feel like that because how do you fight with somebody that disagrees with you? You can't. But I've used that as a skill when working with like angry people too. Like if I've dealt with like angry clients, I will agree with them as much as I professionally can. Absolutely. Like if they are like pissed off at a situation and it's not like my fault or whatever, and they're just mad about a situation, I'll be like, I know that policy really sucks. Like it truly does, and I'm so sorry. Like exactly man, that is rough.
SPEAKER_01I I agree with you, and then that just brings them down because you're also validating a feeling, yeah. Like, no, you're right, this does suck. This isn't fair. Yeah, and I think for me, I have a brother who's autistic, um, just right in the middle of the spectrum. Yeah, and we would see he would have spikes in his behavior, and he would become um violent sometimes, and he would like hit a wall and like drywall would go places, and like he was he's a big guy, so it was intense. Um, but my dad never realized, shut up. Like my dad egged him on, right? You know, you're not gonna do this, you're not gonna do that, and my brother would just spike up. Like, instead of de-escalating him and just encouraging him to go take time and space or whatever he needed to do to regulate, yeah, my dad would, you know, escalate that behavior. And so we were constantly moving in these waves of you know, the behavior would get worse, and then he would start to calm a little bit, my dad would, you know, want to fight again, and then it would bring it back up. I mean, it was just constant. And, you know, it's like learn what works and what doesn't. Right. But for my dad, it was I'm gonna win. Yeah. I'm gonna win. Yeah. And you are not.
SPEAKER_00And I think with you know, we have our our little T and our big T traumas. Um when you're thinking about like your your big traumas that you know you kind of alluded to in this question of like substance use, sexual abuse, physical abuse, yeah, that kind of stuff has been generational. Yeah. Um that's in a way, I think that is easier to identify, but it's harder to break. Yeah. But a lot of times there's like co- I won't say comorbidities, but there's like there's things that are also happening at the same time. Like there's probably poverty, there's probably mental health, there's probably other things that are compounding this issue, and it's hard to break a cycle when you don't have the resources.
SPEAKER_01And we call it generational trauma because it didn't just start with you.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01It started with your mom and your grandma and your great grandma. And every generation has had to learn some type of coping skill to survive. Yeah. So whether it is, you know, um hoarding money or um drug use or alcohol abuse or hoarding and general. Just hoarding in general, you know, that's how they cope. That's how they got by. And you are gonna parent often how you were parented unless you are so aware of it that you are actively trying to break the cycle.
SPEAKER_00Right. Um Yeah, I think um one of the cool things that, you know, I'm a professor of social work these days. Oh. Um, and one of the cool things that we do in social work, and other professions do it too, but we really focus on like social work's cool because we look at everything, not just like the person, we look at their environment, we look at their social settings, we look at all this stuff. Um so one of the cool things that we do in our classes is we teach students how to do genograms, um, which I love a genogram. So it's like a family tree, kind of. Oh yes. So we do that, but then we take it a step further with our students and we make them look at generational themes. So we look at like I think my students just wrote this paper on uh their family maps and genograms and stuff, and I made them look at three different themes, and that would could have been um parenting style, could have been communication styles, could have been um I'm trying to think what all the other ones were. There was like seven or eight they could pick from, but it I made them like look at each, they had to go three generations back, and each generation think about like what that looked like in each generation. How is it similar to how you are now? How is it different? And I make them do this one for their own self-awareness, but also they can do it with clients. So this is a practice that we do when we work with families often um in social work, and other fields do it too. Um but we that's just like one of the tools that we teach them how to use in like uh family settings. So I think that's really cool because we like do a lot with that.
SPEAKER_01I think it's important too, because we want to make sure when we're looking at these family patterns that we're not excusing behavior, we're not saying, oh hey, because your mom treated you this way, it was okay for you to beat me. Like that that's okay. No, we're not saying that. No, no, no. I think we have to look at it from instead of what's wrong with you or what's wrong with me, what happened to you? What happened to me? Because that will give you some context. Because I I'm gonna be honest here, people truly are just doing the best with what they have and what they know. Yeah, if you don't know any better, you can't do any better. Yeah. So if everybody around you, you grew up in a generation where they, you know, beat their kids, that's all you know. That's what you think is normal. Unless you have grown up, you know, maybe educated yourself or been around other people where they're like, no, we don't get beaten. What is happening? You know? So to change that pattern of behavior, you don't know. So I think looking at what happened to you, what happened to me, um, is gonna be very helpful in context.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I've always said like, you know, I think there's a fine line between like trauma sometimes explains the behavior. It doesn't excuse the behavior. Because I was a, you know, I had a uh dance teacher who was very abusive to me, um not physically, but emotionally, verbally, like was just really awful to me. And I have friends who kind of went through the same thing as I did, and they've learned her hit like she has a she's a pretty like intense trauma history, um, as well. Like she's been through a lot, and I can acknowledge that. I can acknowledge that she has been through some shit. Um, and you know, I have a friend who's very quick to be like, oh well, she's been through a lot, so I can forgive her for that. And I'm like, that's great for you, but I'm not there, and I think I understand that she's been through a lot and that a lot has happened to her, and that doesn't take away your hurt, right, and that explains the behavior that she exhibited, and I can understand that, and I can understand how trauma affects people, like it's literally my entire career, right? Just like understanding how trauma affects people, but that doesn't excuse the behavior that you exhibited, and it doesn't mean that I have to forgive you because you had a shitty time.
SPEAKER_01It almost um invalidates what you are going through because it's it's trying to say, well, but you know, she had a rough childhood.
SPEAKER_00It has become it became such a point of contention with me and this friend that we finally agreed, like we just can't talk about it. Like that experience with each other or that person, we just can't talk about that person with each other. And that feels safer. It's putting in the boundaries, yeah, and it's and we've both it's something we both agreed on, and like this is a very good friend of mine, and um that's just something that and she still interacts with this person, and it's gonna be hard. It that is really hard for me because I'm like, I was so hurt by this experience, but at the same time, like I can't take away like what she's done for her own healing, you know, like for my friend putting that behind her and moving on and accepting that is was her way of healing, right? And it was it's not my way, and that's okay. Totally that that it's not that, yeah. Um and so we're you know, we've been able to work through that with each other, but for me and that other that person, like it would take a lot of conversation and apologies and things like that that I don't ownership. Ownership of behavior like something that I don't think is ever gonna happen. Right. And that's okay. Um I just yeah, put that boundary in.
SPEAKER_01I I think that's a key. So recognizing like what are my triggers? Yeah, what are the things, you know, that even and and we say I know people overuse that word trigger, but I do want to say like things that happen in the quiet, things that happen when you least expect it. Things like suddenly, you know, you're just walking through the grocery store and maybe there's a smell, maybe it's a perfume that she used to wear. Maybe um it's you know, you were talking about dance, maybe it's a um you know leggings or an outfit that uh, oh my god, she wore something just like that. That just sort of triggers that memory for you, and suddenly it's like, why do I feel like I'm having a panic attack? Why do I feel like I can't breathe? Like those are triggers, and those are those triggers that we just we don't know when they're gonna happen, they just kind of come out of nowhere. It's kind of like grief does that too, where it just sort of comes out of nowhere. Absolutely. In those quiet moments when we least expect it. Um, but putting in boundaries is gonna be so healthy because you're not only protecting yourself emotionally, and in some instances, you know, if you were abused physically, you're protecting your body, you know. Um, so that's gonna be really important, and you have the power to say, no, yeah, I am not going to let this take over my life. And you don't have to see that person all the time.
SPEAKER_00No. And it's another thing too, like when you're talking about family and generational trauma, knowing knowing that history is so important because a lot of these things are in your genetics. Like if you have a family history of substance use, you are probably not, or of substance use disorder, I should say, you are probably not someone who is gonna be able to try a substance once and be fine. Right. Like, and that's important to know. Absolutely. Because it's so like that is such a hereditary thing, and even like mental health conditions, like those are soup can be super hereditary as well. Um, so like if your parents struggled with mental health, like you probably need to be aware of that and understand, like, hey, these are some of the signs that I need to look for and get help for myself before it becomes an issue. Exactly. Um but also, yeah, like with substances with um like alcohol uh gambling. I was gonna say gambling. Like that's really common. Um like it's just like any kind of form.
SPEAKER_01People say too like, oh, well, um, yeah, I mean, I spend every dime that I earn. Like I buy a bunch of junk and stuff, but you know, i my dad was a raging alcoholic, so I mean he was an addict. I'm not an addict right because you think it's different. Right, and it looks it can look different, but it's the same behavior.
SPEAKER_00Same behavior, it's just different action. Yeah. So you may never drink, like if you come from an alcoholic family, you may not ever drink, but you might gamble. Yep. Or you might um eat. You might um be a hoarder. You might hoard. You might just whatever that behavior is, it can present really differently for different people.
SPEAKER_01Um it's coping, it's that little thrill, that little high that you get. And so, and in the moment it feels really good. And again, we're gonna rationalize that behavior by saying, Oh, I didn't drink, my dad drank. And see, I think that that's what we say in generations, and and that's why we always say, Well, this generation is better than the other, because if you were raised how I was raised. And yes, while we do look at changing patterns in generations, like, you know, you could say, like, well, my great-grandfather was an alcoholic. And so my dad, I this is an example, it's not true, but you know, so you know, my dad, he wasn't an alcoholic, but he gambled. And then you can say, Me, I don't drink or gamble, but you know, I probably buy too much stuff, and you know, I may or may not have a hoarding issue, you know. So you see it, it's still coming through in the generations, but it's coming through in a different way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that being able to recognize that behavior can be really hard.
SPEAKER_01Very hard because we don't want to admit that we are like them. Right. Yeah. We don't want to admit that.
SPEAKER_00And I think you said something really like kind of spot on is thinking back about the generations before us, you know, when we say, like, oh well, at least like I'm not as bad as they were. So like thinking about, you know, and again, another example, not my situation, but like, you know, my dad's dad beat him with a belt and with a switch and left marks and like open wounds and stuff like that. That didn't actually happen. It's just an example. Um, like, oh my god, your portrait didn't actually happen. Okay. But and then to be, you know, and then say, like, my dad, you know, hit me with a whatever, and then I move on, and it's you know, that behavior of like oh well he only hit me with a belt.
SPEAKER_01He didn't hit me with a switch. Yeah, so it's better. It is, yeah. It's different.
SPEAKER_00Yep. That kind of thing. Is it though? Right, and it's like, oh I don't love that. Yeah. And then you as a parent, you're like, well, I won't ever hit them with the belt, but maybe I'll smack them across the face.
SPEAKER_01Or or maybe I'll pick another kind of abuse. Maybe I'll verbally attack them. Right. I'm not hitting you. I'm not hitting you.
SPEAKER_00See I'm not hitting you, but I'm like it could be like you're screaming at them and causing all this verbal abuse and this trauma of this psychological and emotional trauma, but at least I'm not hitting you. Yeah. Like I was hit. Yep. Like I you could have it so much worse. I could hit you. So it it is interesting to think about like my disclaimer, I was not beaten as a child. No, neither was I. Neither was I was not beaten as a child.
SPEAKER_01I I will hopefully my mother's okay with this. Sorry, mom, if you're listening. But so my mother my grandfather um was physically abusive. And he he grew up being beaten with chains, like he was beaten with anything basically. So when he became a parent, like he didn't beat his kids with chains, but he certainly lost his temper all the time and would throw the kids up against the wall, he would um put his hands around their necks, he would beat, he even beat them. Yeah. And so my mom, growing up in that environment, was really wanting to break the generational cycle of I don't want to marry someone who is going to abuse me. Yeah. So she married someone who did not physically abuse her. He verbally abused her. But you know what? That was way better than what she was getting before. So she thought, ugh, this is perfect. Yeah. And she didn't see that that was also abuse. I think it took her a very long time to see that that was actually abuse. And she, when she started putting in boundaries with my dad, he was like, What is this? Why are you acting this way? Why why have you changed your personality all of a sudden? And he got angry with her, he would get frustrated with her because she was putting in boundaries. And I will say, when you put in boundaries, that individual that you're putting in the boundaries with, they're gonna get upset with you. Yeah, and you may honestly become sort of the black sheep of your family. That's okay. Yeah, your emotional and physical safety is paramount here, and trying to break this cycle, you have to do whatever you can to maintain that safety.
SPEAKER_00And I think we see that a lot more now with like people going no contact. Yeah, like that's a lot more common where people are realizing like, hey, this was not okay. And I'm putting up this boundary, and if you continue to violate this boundary or cross this boundary, I will cut you off. Exactly. And that I can't imagine how difficult that is.
SPEAKER_01Oh especially if your family really is all you have. Yeah. Oh my goodness, yes. Yeah, and like how hard that would be. And I think that you have to be careful because there's a control aspect, right? So people who are innately um abusive have control issues, so they're gonna do whatever they can to keep control of you. And a lot of times it's monetary. So, you know, they maybe they pay for your car, maybe they pay for your housing, maybe they pay for your school, maybe they pay for something. A lot of it's money, so that at the end of the day, when you put in a boundary, they can come back and say, Ah, well, I paid for all your schooling. I pay and I see that in my dad's family. That's how they control people is money.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say, like, is that do you think that's a generational thing with your dad's family? Oh, yes. Like this is learned behavior.
SPEAKER_01Yes, this is learned behavior. It's all I control you with money, and and that's what they do. Yeah. And so what you think is so I always call it the tit for tat. Nobody in my dad's family gives you anything without expectation. Whether it's seen in the moment, like okay, I gave you $10, you owe me $10 plus interest because that's how they are. Um, or I gave you $10 and I'm gonna let this ride. I'm not gonna say anything. And then in 20 years, I'm gonna bring up when you try and put in a boundary. Remember that time that I gave you $10? I mean, really, you owe me. I didn't say anything about it then, but uh, you owe me. Right, but I've kept track of it. But I've kept tracked for 20 years about $10, and so now with inflation, you know, really you owe me $30. You know what I mean? Like that is how they are. And so and it's so different because my mom's family was totally different. They, if somebody gave you something, it was a gift. Yeah. That that you know, this is a gift of love, and this is for you, and you don't ever have to pay it back. And and it's just the dichotomy between the two families. So growing up was weird. Yeah. Growing up was weird. It was weird, and you know, something that my mom said to me, and I I didn't really understand because um when I was a little girl, my mom and dad they would get into fights, and my mom would throw magazines and whatever she had handy at my dad, and he would laugh at her, and that just fueled her fire. Yeah, and so she ended up, she would just leave the house and she would be gone for hours. And as a young child, I thought my mom left. Like I I thought she wasn't coming back. Where did mom go? It was scary. Um, and she eventually would come back, and finally, when I was about four or five, I was like, Stop doing this. You're scaring me, you make me feel like you're never gonna come back again, and that really changed her behavior and she stopped. And as I got older, she told me that she felt similar behavior patterns to her dad. She felt herself getting so escalated that she wanted to hurt him and she had to leave. Yeah. And that was the safest choice in the moment that she could make, and which was brilliant. So bravo, mom. Good job. Um, because the it would have been horrible to see, you know, that domestic violence.
SPEAKER_00But escalate, yeah.
SPEAKER_01To see that escalate. Um, but also she was triggered by him. And, you know, I think her saying, like, I'm gonna I'm gonna stay and try and figure this out. How can I handle this in a way where my children don't feel like I'm leaving them? But also I don't beat the crap out of him, you know? Yeah, yeah, that's uh she and I'm gonna applaud her, she broke a lot of that generational trauma. She never hit us. Well, she did, but but not not in an abusive way, right in a behavior modification way, yeah. Um, but never never out of anger, right? You know, anything like that. Um and she never hit my dad, even though there were times when goodness. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, good job, mom. But it is very difficult, and it kind of speaks to those moments where you feel yourself starting to just feel that rage that's seething in your body, and this is where we get emotionally dysregulated. So, how do we regulate ourselves? Yeah, that's a big talk in therapy. How do you regulate yourself? Well, I from my perspective, a lot of it's physical. You can regulate your body by doing something physical. So for me, I have to like walk the block or I have to clean. Clean, clean, clean, clean, clean. You know, something that helps me regulate. Some people are really good with the breathing, they're able to take a minute, take a pause, maybe take a step away. I'm not a good breather either. No. Because I'm an anxious person, so I'm already I gotta go do something.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I gotta move my body.
SPEAKER_01So, one of the things that we talk about is I I talk about this a lot with kids. I call it moving the wall. So pushing your hands up against the wall um really does help with that nervous system regulation. Um, that's very helpful. It seems ridiculous, but it really does help. Um doing what we call heavy work. Uh OTs call it heavy work. So, you know, it could be taking um a little rock and moving it from one side of the driveway to the other. Um, you know, getting a wheelbarrow and putting mulch and moving it from what, you know, that heavy work is going to be very helpful in regulation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, because it uses a different part of your brain.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00And it allows for you to make those connections in a different way. So it's it's all very brain-related.
SPEAKER_01Very much so.
SPEAKER_00And nervous system related.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And when you're able to sort of regulate your nervous system, um, you are able to make better decisions. Your brain moves from that downstairs brain where you're not really making the best decisions. And your lizard brain. You're in your lizard brain, you're firing off of anger. Yeah. And all the choices. Exactly. You're making those really bad choices, but when you move back into your upstairs brain and you're thinking clear, you're back in that, you know, prefrontal cortex and you're making better decisions. Um you're like, okay, well, this is good. I didn't, you know, call my grandma and cuss her out. Instead, I went and uh moved the furniture around and now I feel regulated, and I decided that would be a bad idea.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I always I when I teach my students about like self-care and about um regulating and like how to deal with people in crisis. I we talk a lot about the nervous system and about the brain, but I also think part of that genetics piece, I think some of us are just wired certain ways in our nervous systems to be calmer in certain situations. Like for me, and it's something that I never had to work at, it just was very natural for me. When there is a crisis, when there is an emergency, when there is a loud, like there's a fight, there's something going on, somebody's yelling at me. I get very calm. Like my nervous system, like I'm able to control that really well without trying as much. And it's not anything I've done. I think it's just the way that my body responds, and which it makes me very good for crisis work. Absolutely. Um, but also I was raised by two paramedics who that was a skill that they had to have.
SPEAKER_01I honestly don't know if your dad has a blood pressure.
SPEAKER_00He is the calmest the calmest person you have ever met. And in any kind of like, and my mom's very she's she can get a little bit more excited, but not much. No. Um, she's very calm too. And so I'm very calm. My brother's very calm. We're just a very calm people in crisis. Like, we're the people you call because we're not gonna freak out. Or like if we roll up on a wreck on the side of the road, like we're getting stuff done. Like, okay, we're very capable of compartmentalizing, I think, is part of it too. And that's been hard for me to teach students because it's something that is so natural for me, and it's taken me a while to recognize that that is not a natural skill that everybody has. It's not and so having to learn how to teach my students how to regulate their nervous systems because it's something for me, and I'm very grateful to it because it's such a good skill in my field, and probably why I was inclined to go into this field is because the way my body responds to crisis. Um whereas for some people they're like, Oh, I could never do that because I would just be too anxious and up here and freaking out and all the things, like and I've always said that in interviews too, when they're like, How do you handle crisis? I'm like, honestly, it calms me down. It does and it's so bizarre, but like when I worked with high school children, if they started if there was a fist fight happening, like like I'm good. Yeah, like I'm just deal with it.
SPEAKER_01I have to fight my natural instinct. So, you know, I've clearly we've worked in fields where you know crisis, crises happen. Yeah. Um my natural instinct is run. I get in fight, flight, freeze, you know, and I am flight. I'm like, get the F out of here. That's my emotional safety, that's how I protect myself. And you know, I have had to learn working in this field, um, in the field I've worked in, is is stay, work through it. This is not your problem. Yeah, this is theirs. And if you're running away, you're not helping anybody.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, their heart rate gets elevated, like you feel that in your body, so yeah and I don't have the complete opposite reaction.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Like but afterward, I am the one who will help you decompress, I will help you process it, and say I'll crash.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like as you're gonna as soon as it's over, like I am the most cool, calm, collected person in a crisis, like, and I've I do really like brag on myself for that a little bit. Yeah. Because like, if there's a crisis, I'm the one you call because exactly it's I'm gonna handle it. Yeah, and it's gonna be fine, and we're gonna figure it out in the moment. It's good, all is well, but as soon as I have the second, like as soon as it's over and I know everybody's taken care of, and there's nothing else for me to do in this situation, I crash hard.
SPEAKER_01Don't you think it's interesting that it falls in line with your seizures seizures? That you were the type of person like you had the seizure, like intent intent intent, and then it was like crash, which is naturally what your body does when you seize. But it's almost interesting. I wonder if there's any kind of correlation there. Maybe. Sorry, we're getting into really deep thoughts, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, I but yeah, I would be the person to crash, like and I think because in that moment I did have such a high level of adrenaline, it's exhausting, and it but it so laser focuses you, and like that's how adrenaline works for me. I'm so focused and laser focused on the situation that I'm not even aware of anything that's happening in my own body, and you come down from that so hard. Like I would be physically sick.
SPEAKER_01You know, there are many people who work in in risky professions who, you know, are same as you, and because everything turns off and they're so focused, like I've heard people say before, I didn't even know I was shot. Because I was tending to the situation. I had no idea that I had been shot.
SPEAKER_00I'd been I'd broken up fights before that I had been like it would be after everything was over and done, and like I would go to the bathroom or something, and like I broke up one fight one time and I went to the bathroom after again after everything was settled and done. Like pulled my pants down to go pee, and my legs were black and blue. Like I was covered in bruises, and not intentionally from the you know, the kids that were fighting, it was I'm trying to get them apart and limbs are flailing, and I'm getting whacked in the shins and the legs, but I didn't feel it. I had no feeling that that was happening um until I was like felt it the next day. I'll tell you that. And I was like, Oh, that's a lovely, that's a dandy Bruce. That hurts.
SPEAKER_01That hurts now. Well, and I I do wonder, so I would be the person who would be helping you process like holding in all these motions. Would you be the person who would go, no, I'm fine, I'm good, I don't need to talk about it. Just keep plowing on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um I would with most people, but I had like in that job I had a few like safe co-workers that I could go process with that I knew were non-judgmental.
SPEAKER_01That's the most beautiful segue because you want to have people in your life when you're sort of reparenting yourself. Yeah. You want to have people in your life who are gonna be those safe people, those people that you can go to and say, Hey, did I handle that right? Right. Did how did that come off? Because sometimes we can't always see it when we're in it. So having other people who are maybe observing your behavior, or other people who are just gonna be honest with you in a safe way, I think is very healthy. Um, and you're building healthy relationships. And so also let's let's try and pick people who are maybe, you know, not going to um show those same behaviors, or you know, even recognizing, like, oh yeah, my friend doesn't, you know, say mean things to me, but my friend encourages me to do bad things, right? So, you know, really picking healthy relationships is going to be important and having a safe person, even if your safe person is your therapist. Yeah, that's important too, and therapy.
unknownTherapy.
SPEAKER_01How do we break cycles? We realize they're cycles, therapy, therapy, talking to someone, and honestly, and I've always had this for myself. Once I start talking about it out loud, I have figured it out for myself. I'm like, oh, oh, that's a cycle. Okay. Yeah. And that's what happens to a lot of people. That's true. But just being able to say it out loud is important because how many of us don't ever say it out loud and just keep it buried inside because, well, that's what we were taught to do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01A lot.
SPEAKER_00A lot.
SPEAKER_01A lot. Whew. I got deep, man. Sydney. You're crushing it. Um, this was a really great topic. Very, very heavy. Um, but honestly, all of us deal with it. Yeah. Um, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00For sure.
SPEAKER_01Hopefully you're working on breaking that cycle and hopefully some of our commentary was helpful. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Go to therapy.
unknownGo to therapy.
SPEAKER_01I I'm not trying to pad my pocket, I swear. Um I am just honestly, and as we say, we are not your therapist. Yeah, we're not your therapist. We're not your therapist. Um, but you know, really reach out to somebody um for that added support.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that processing piece is huge.
SPEAKER_01Very big, very big. So if you want to reach out to us, you can do that via email at deepthoughts with h at gmail.com. You can find us on Facebook at deep thoughts with Holly and Haley, and you can find us on Instagram, Deep Thoughts with H. Um, all of these online platforms you can message us. So if you want to, we would love to hear from you. You could send us a voice memo.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, just telling us your name, where you're from. Doesn't even have to be your name.
SPEAKER_00It could be anybody's name. We could be like, hey, Holly and Haley, this is Haley.
SPEAKER_01You know, whatever. It could be my name. It could be or Holly, whatever works for you, or another age. That works too. Um, we would love that. Or if you feel less inclined to send an audio but more inclined to send an email, we would love to hear from you too. So please send us your questions. We love them. Yeah. Haley, do you have a shout-out for us? Do we do that on this podcast?
SPEAKER_00Yes, we do. Do we? No.
SPEAKER_01We don't.
SPEAKER_00We don't do that on this podcast. That's funny.
SPEAKER_01Can we edit that out?
SPEAKER_00No, I'm keeping it. No, I'm keeping it forever.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_00So if you have causing me trauma. I know. If we have on Mountain Mysteries, our other podcast, if you hear not because you came to us from there, go check out that podcast.
SPEAKER_01It's a great one.
SPEAKER_00Um, there we at the end of every episode we give a shout out to a listening area.
SPEAKER_01I am so confused at this point. It's okay. Uh we have so many damn podcasts.
unknownWe have two.
SPEAKER_01That is a lot for someone such as I. I I don't know what's happening. I don't know what week we're on. No, I have no idea. I don't know what page we're on. I'm not entirely sure what day it is. I me neither. I'm pretty sure it's a Saturday. It is a Saturday. Yes, that we're recording. You'll hear this on a Thursday. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Sheesh. This is a Saturday before Easter. If you celebrate Happy Easter. Yes, happy Easter. Hope you had a good one because you'll hear this after Easter.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. I hope it was delightful. I hope it was fun. Yeah. We don't know. We hope tomorrow it turns out well. Yeah. Who's to say? Easter bunny's coming.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've got to make a couple casseroles. Delightful. What are you making? Broccoli casserole and vegetable casserole.
SPEAKER_01That's really oh, I love a good broccoli casserole. And yet she didn't pre-make one and give some to me. I didn't. The rolls that we are eating tomorrow though are in Holly's freezer. She did come to the house and she said, Can I put something in your freezer? And listen, y'all, we do a murder podcast, and I said very quietly, Is it a body? And she said, No, it's rolls.
SPEAKER_00It's dinner rolls.
SPEAKER_01I was like, Alright, I'll allow it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I picked them up my way out here and I was like, surely Holly will let me stash these in her freezer. And I did. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, I'm from my dad's family, so there's a fee. Okay, good, good. Great.
SPEAKER_00I'll have to pay the paying the bridge fee to get your rolls out of the freezer.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. But you know what? I'm gonna let it slide this time because I'm trying to break the generational cycle. That's so good. That's good of you. And I'm not gonna hold it over your head in 20 years. I appreciate that. You're welcome. Because I will not remember this in 20 years. I'm gonna be honest, neither will. I don't even know what day it is, y'all. I mean, that's so sad. But anyway, thanks for joining us. We'll catch you next week. Yeah. Bye. Bye. Deep Thoughts is a production by Holly and Haley. Social media brought to you by Holly. Podcast editing by Haley. Visual design by Marquez. For sponsorship opportunities, please reach out to us via email, Deep Thoughts with H at gmail.com.