Political Differences

Join us this week as we talk about political differences and how to navigate them in relationships. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to Deep Thoughts with Holly and Haley. This week's episode focuses on excluding others and issues that divide us.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Quick disclaimer: while we do have a background in mental health care, we are not your licensed mental health providers. If you're in need of professional mental health care, please reach out to a local office near you. If you are in crisis, please dial 911 or 988 for immediate assistance.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

Mateo says, What drives people to feel the need to exclude others? And why are we so divided on issues impacting all of us? Mateo. Get over there, Haley. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

I am over here. We're on opposite ends of screen. I'm excluding you right now. We are like so far away from each other. Hang on, I can give you more um headphone length so you can get even farther away from me. Wow. Look you there. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

Um tell you what divides us. She doesn't return any of my texts. I don't. I'm really bad at it. And I know she's heard them or read them. Yeah. I know she has.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

I do this thing where I usually get them when I'm in the middle of something and I read them, and I'm like, yeah. I'll respond to that in a second. And then I never do. Yeah. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

I will send it. I will forget that I sent it. And then I'll be like, oh, I need to tell Haley something. And I'll go and I'll look and I'll be like, well, crap, she never responded to the other thing I sent her.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

No. That's typically what happens. That is usually what happens. Do know that I read them and I enjoy them. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

I did send you a voice memo the other day that was quite funny. Yeah. In an Irish accent.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Friendly greetings, Hailey. Oh my God. No.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Okay. Yeah. So back to this question.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Um Well, first of all, as a country, we're very divided. So this is a apropos question.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Yeah. And I think that we have been more divided since the 2016 election. Like 2016 election to now, more divided than we ever were previously.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Well, as somebody who is older. Yeah. I and has has lived through quite a few elections. Yeah. I can say honestly, and not even well, mm-hmm. I I think that we've been very divided. I think I think honestly, to me, just looking historically, as when did our country excuse me? God bless. I think something came went into my mouth. Oh God. Like a bug, like a gnat or something.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

No. She's choking on the bugs. Can we edit this out for a moment? No, please. We've gotta keep it.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

I hate you. You love me. Stop. She's dying.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Um I'm chewing on a bug. Okay, no. Dang it, Haley. I love it. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

Okay. Okay. So I'm back. God. Just edit this. Stop snorting.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Um, no, okay, so Okay, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

Okay. I really think that prior to the 1960s. Dang, she's taking it back. I'm taking it back. Prior to the 60s, you're looking at generation that was, you know, oh, we're going to war? All right, let's send our troops in. Patriotism, people who were really pro-America, and what that sort of stood for, and and however you feel about it, good, bad, or ugly, a lot of people really sort of bought into the whole fabric of America. We're, you know, a piece of the country. Of course we would fight for our country. So then we see the next generation. So we've got the kids of these World War II vets who are now protesting Vietnam because they're like, wait a minute, I'm not I'm not going out there to die. Like, I'm really anti-war. Like, and they're doing demonstrations, they're burning bras, they're doing all the things that you know their parents are like, you're an anti-American. You're you're going against the fabric of America. You're going against your country. And so I feel like that's when we saw a divide in America, where we had this younger generation that was saying, like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Right, this is a needless war. This is a needless war. And and this is when we saw things like social programs that were starting. And that generation before was like, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. We don't need food stamps. We don't need these programs. We don't need all of this. We need to just band together because you know, it worked for us before, and you've got this other generation going, No, it didn't work. And we're trying to establish support for our country in a different way. So I think that's when this divide happened. Yeah. I think, yeah, I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

And I think it just has gotten progressively worse. I agree. And bigger. And I think the tipping point, I mean, we saw a big un to unity after 9-11. Yes. There was a huge unity after 9-11. Huge. That was like, I mean, it didn't last long, but I mean it brought everybody together. And then I think things have just progressively gotten more and more divided. And I think things like the wealth gap has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger as well. Um and I think when you have extremists on both sides of the aisle, yes politically, it just creates. I think politically we had a lot more moderates before we saw the first Trump election.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

I mean, yes, I've got to be a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Like people played a little closer to the center of the aisle. Everybody kind of got not got along, but people were civil enough with each other to kind of like it was a much more respectable thing. I mean, you had the Clinton stuff that went on, and that was a big joke, and I mean it was awful, but was a you know Which one? Right. It was a kind of a laughing, like, you know.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

You mean the Lewinsky whole stuff? Yeah. Yeah, but you know, what was interesting about that whole situation was that, you know, aside from the affair and all that kind of stuff, um, really, he was a pretty good president. Yeah. Really, a lot of people, even those who were conservative, really did like him.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Well, then you saw the same thing with like Bush too. Like, even though he was conservative, but he was able to still kind of work across the aisle a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

E no. Not what I recall back in the day. So I think, as you talked about, when Bush was president, 9-11 happened, and I was 17, 18 years old. I recall that was the most patriotic I have ever felt of my country. Like everybody was like on board with this and and all these things. Once the war started, Bush was attacked. Oh, yeah. All you know, and so that created again this divide in our country. And so I think historically it's just happened. Um but I I agree with you though, and I'm not trying to to disappear.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

But I think like it's gotten worse. Even that is nothing compared to where we are now. Oh, a hundred percent. Like a hundred percent. Even though people hated him for the war, they could still look at him as a person. And now everybody's like, oh, we love bo, you know Yeah, like people could still look at like, yeah, we didn't love his policies, we didn't love like child left behind and all the like we didn't love some of the things that he did, but I don't think there was like we didn't hate the person as much as we do now, you know? Yeah, and like now it's and I think even then, like, I'm gonna be totally I'm gonna get real political here and I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Um Should I cough?

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Maybe um, but the the White House now and the people in office right now, it's a freaking joke. Like we are laughing stock. Like this is a joke, and it's not funny because it's horrible. Yeah, and it's it's like, what are we doing? I mean, it's like the most crazy headlines come out about stuff happening, and you're like, this can't be real, and then you're like, oh shit, this is real. But thinking like looking back did you say Israel? Oh my god. Oh sorry, get me get me started. Sorry. Um, no, but looking back, like historically before we were in this disaster, um, I think there was a level of respect for the office of the president. Yeah. You know, like I think even if you didn't agree with the policies, you you you could hate the policies, you could be like, I hate Bush or I hate Obama or whatever. I mean, Obama was pretty divisive, but not as much as where we currently are. But I think you could still have respect, you still had respect for the office of the president.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

On both sides, yeah. You still held that respect. Yeah. And I think now that's gone.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Um not even just like the office, like not even just like the White House, but like Congress, you know, the House of Representatives, the Senate, like all of that, it's like it feels like is this a theater performance? Like what are we doing? Because it's so divided and we have such extreme things going on on both sides. Yeah. You know, I agree. It's just bonkers. And I think it's one of those things for me being a social worker, being someone who tries to keep up with policy and that kind of stuff. And like I'm I'm the person sitting there reading the bills, like front to back. Yeah. Like when stuff comes out, I'm glad you are.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

You can just tell me about it.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

Yeah. Like I'll sit there and read it because I'm such a policy nerd.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

I was like, give me the Cliff Notes version, please.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

Yeah. Because I'm I'm a huge policy nerd. I love that kind of stuff. Um and I'm fine, like I it just is what I do. But that's what I do. That's what I do. Um, the policies that we have now I think are just so like some of the ones that come out, they're just they're so harmful to vulnerable people.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

And honestly, arbitrary. Yeah. It's just it's it kind of feels like, oh, we flipped a coin this week and we decided to change everything. Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

But then also they don't do anything too. Exactly. Right. Like a lot of the times you'll hear these big scary bills and like the names of them or whatever, and you're like, oh my god, this is terrible. And I'm like, okay, sit down and read it. Because it's a lot of talk about nothing.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Like nothing actually is happening.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

This is just people uh it's a it's a performance. It's a performance, is what it feels like. And I know that sounds very uh unpatriotic of me. And you know, I do love my country. I think we have some great things going for us. What they are at this moment, couldn't tell you. But, you know, there are some things that are good.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

I think that we have a country filled with individuals who um are good people. Yeah. I think that you can find good people anywhere, and I think that we have a a country that is educated and is smart, and you know, I think that it's challenging because you have when you have a a, you know, a team of individuals who are educated and smart, you're always gonna have some disagreements. You're gonna have some people who think this way and some people who think that way. And I think that acknowledging that it's okay that we think differently. And it's okay that we are politically different, we are maybe socially different, that's okay. It's okay for me to be friends with somebody who is very different politically, but also someone who's different from me socioeconomically. Yeah, it's okay for me to be friends with someone who is different from me in race and ethnicity and culture and all of those things, and that's okay. So, how do we, when we're talking about the fabric of America, you know, how do we weave all that together? Or how do we get along with each other?

SPEAKER_02 14:25

I think, though, I agree with you. I agree that we can have friendships and be, you know, civil to people who think differently than us. I think we're gonna have to get married. Right. I think we can, and I think in a professional manner, yes, like I do that all the time. Like I know there are people that I work with, there are people that I I teach, there are people like whatever that believe totally different than I do, and that's fine because I am a professional and I can deal with that. Now, my friends, though, the people I choose to have close to me. Thanks, Holly. Um, I peace. If you are actively voting and actively doing things and supporting and posting on the internet things that are harmful to communities that I'm either a part of or allied with. Yes. I don't have that capacity for you in my life on more than just a like I'm not gonna go go deck you or like punch you out in the grocery store. Wow. Like I'll do the nice, like friendly nod. We're not hanging out. We're not like going to lunch or anything. Like, I don't have to be your friend. No. I can be cordial to you. Absolutely. I can be, you know, respectful of you, but we're not friends.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

This is the thing that I think exactly what you're saying. Yeah. And that's where we misstep. Yeah. Because this is that divide we're talking about. You do not have to agree. I have had on both sides where, you know, I've seen someone post things that were so just insane that I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, no. And I mute them or you know, I unplug them or whatever, you know, on both sides of the gamut. That does not mean that if, you know, I saw them in the group, I wouldn't say, hey, you know, hi, how are you? We're not gonna be close friends, like you said. Right. But where people misstep is just like you said, oh, I saw them in the store, so I decked them because they don't agree with me. I punched them in the store. Well, I punched them in the I throat punched them, you know? Like, what? That's ridiculous. Right. Or yeah, I confronted them in the grocery store and told them exactly, you know, how they were wrong and their ideas were stupid and I got into a Facebook commenting war with them about it. Exactly. Um, because that is causing this divisive nature, like this is making it worse. Saying we agree to disagree and holding that boundary and saying you're just not going to be a part of my life because of your extreme views. Right. That's fair and that's okay. But saying, no, you're wrong, you're stupid, let me go beat the crap out of you. No.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Well, and I'll say this like I I am marrying a black man. Like, as a white woman, I am marrying a black man. My fiance is black. And he is, I've seen he is indeed black. He is. Um, and you know, I had this realization as I was going through, we were looking at who we were gonna invite to our wedding, and you know, I was had a had conversations with my parents and stuff like that about like different people, and you know, we got to a couple on the list where I was like Is it safe? Not even that, it's like they might love me and have been there because they love me, but they wouldn't love the fact that I was marrying a black man. And I don't want you at my wedding.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

I like I and I can that's been hard to grapple with for me on a couple of relationships that I have with people of like I either kind of have suspected that you felt this way or whatever, and I know they would never say anything to me about my fiancee, they would never say anything, they would but they would be supportive of like appear to be supportive of me, be like, Oh, I love you, like you were beautiful, like I love their your love and all of this stuff. But if their child were with someone of a different race, they would lose their shit. And I'm like, I don't like that's not c that's not okay to me.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

No, and if you're spending your whole wedding worried about, oh god, you know, their beer and what's gonna happen you know like are they gonna like do they really like are they really supportive of me?

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Exactly. Like I don't want you there. Exactly. I don't want you in that part of my life. Exactly. I don't want you there for that day in my life, I don't want you around my kids, you know, because my kids will be biracial. Like I, you know, I don't I don't want to surround myself with people that I have to question if like even if they love me, and even if they loved my family, if they are making decisions politically, like voting for things that are going to harm my spouse, my children, myself, I don't have a place for you in my life. Yeah. I'm not gonna throat punch you in the grocery store. But I'm not I don't have I don't have the space for you in my life. And I don't have to worry about that often because I'm very outspoken. Yeah. And people know where I stand on issues. Also, my career is social work. Like it's not really hard to tell where I fall on certain things. Um but I'm not trying to I but I can have conversations with people professionally. Absolutely. I can absolutely I can work with anybody. I pride myself on that. Like I can work with anybody I need to. She worked with me. I worked with Holly.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

I mean, if you can work with me, you can work with anyone.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Um, no, I can work with anybody I need to, I can put that aside for a professional purpose, but we're not friends. Right. And that's okay. Absolutely. Like I can work with you and like even like kids I teach. Right. Like they're not kids or adults, but like students that I teach that I teach a Gen Ed class. And so I know there are students in there who believe very differently than I do, and they're not part of my profession, so they don't have the same values and ethics that I follow.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

I don't treat them any differently because they believe differently than I am, because I'm a professional and that's not my role. We're not besties. Right. I mean, I'm not besties with any of my students because that's a professional boundary. Good job. Good job. Yeah, but like we're not like I can work with you. Like I will treat you the exact same way as any other student in my classroom. And there's that.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

So uh, you know, you were talking about that you're very outspoken, and I am not. Right. I don't know if you noticed that about me. No, I know. I yeah, no. I very much tote the line. Right. And I don't often give my political opinion, just largely because who cares? Like, you know what I mean? Like, who really cares what I think in the scheme of things? Like I because I feel like this is my generation showing. When you start to give any kind of this way or that way, automatically it starts a fight. Just automatically it starts the war. Automatically it starts the oh she's that kind of person, or oh she's that kind of person. And I don't peg myself as any, I am, you know, I'm a registered independent. Like I kind of see just but I like to hear both sides. I like to make decisions, and sometimes I agree here, sometimes I agree there, sometimes you know what I mean? Like, uh so it just kind of depends on what it is, to be honest with you, but I also just don't want to be, oh, you're that person, so you must be this. Right. Because honestly, it creates these labels, it creates the well, I can't talk to you because you're this, or I can't, you know, and so for me, being able to just kind of tote that line and really not be as um and and I give my opinions about a lot of things, but politics is not one of them.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Yeah, I would say I'm more so the way that I've handled that I try to handle it, I'm not a huge social media person anyway, so I'm not usually like posting things or whatever. I post my kid. Yeah, I do like Well in a safe way. Yeah, in a safe way. Um but like I might share something for Pride Month. And so it's very easy for people to tell kind of where I fall on certain issues. And I think for me that's a good thing. Like, I don't go around being like, hey, have you heard about this policy? Let's talk on page three of this whatever.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Oh my god, I would so fall asleep. But like, don't tell me page three, just give me the clip of the page.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

I will say, like, I'm very intentional about spaces that I occupy, places that I go. Um, if somebody, you know, asks me my thoughts on something, I will I'm very honest. Um, if I hear somebody being racist or homophobic, I'm usually pretty quick to be like, mmm. Yeah. Kindly shut the F up. Um but that's also in my personal life. With love, Haley. With love, Haley. Um, that's also my personal life. Now, my professional career, like I often I encourage that conversation, usually in classroom in my classroom, um, because I teach certain topics. Um, and so I, you know, when they will discuss, like we had a whole conversation on like harm reduction the other night. And I have one student who works in that field, and so she shared how she felt about things, and I have another student who's kind of new to grappling with that idea, and so she kind of shared how she felt, and you know, there was some really good conversation around that, but I feel like it felt safe that it felt safe because they felt like they were safe with me, because never once in my classroom, in my professional setting, have I ever been derogatory or anything like that to anyone, yeah, because that's just not who I am as a professional. Right. Um now as a person, now as a person throat punch her at all. I will throat punch you. No, I won't. Um but I will put up a boundary. Yeah. And I'm not I'm not scared of a boundary.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Oh no, she's not growing home. I mean, if you're a racist or homophobic or whatever you're gonna now, come on, now I come home now. Uh what I will say is, you know, I feel very similar in the sense that, you know, uh for me, like, oh no, no, we're not gonna get into, you know, talking negatively and being a racist or homophobic or anything. Like, no, no, ma'am, nope. You can just back it on up there. Back it on. Um, because that's not cool. Um, so I think that it it just really is interesting because I as I feel like I just don't get into these conversations that much, largely because I'm like, oh, nope, not gonna touch that. I have my own beliefs and my own values, and I kind of just hold them here. Yeah, well, and that's a boundary for yourself. That's my boundary for yourself if you don't get into it. Because I'm just not willing to get into that because that's not a fight I'm willing to have. Yeah. Because it's so divisive that I just am like, nope, not gonna have that, whether it's in my personal life, and for the most part, I and you've known me for eight years. Have we really had a lot of political or a lot of like social, I mean, social maybe a little bit more, but have we really had a lot of those, at least for me? Probably not.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Not really, I wouldn't say. I mean, I could probably just because I know the person that you are, the kind of person that you are, I could probably guess where you fall on certain issues. And if I had any question about that, like we wouldn't be as close as we are. Um but yeah, I will yeah, and I get that, and I think but I do think it's important to understand or try to understand where the other side is coming from, and that's really, really hard for me, especially with how intense some of these issues are, where it like comes down to like a human rights issue sometimes. Right. That's really hard for me to be like, how on earth could you be on the other side of this issue? Um, like people having literal rights. Um that is just mind-boggling to me, but I think it's important, and especially as someone like- But see, I think I'm sorry, go ahead, I'll let you finish. I was gonna say, as somebody who like in my professional setting, I teach policy, so I have to know. And I have to try to look at things from both sides of an issue, or at least both stances, like I have to try to figure out what the argument is on each side because I try to deliver the material that I'm teaching in the most neutral way possible and let students figure out like where they fall on issues. You know, I'm gonna give them all the information. Right. Um, because a lot of times students will say that they fall on a certain side of an issue and then they get the information and they're like, oh wait, oh wait, yeah, I didn't actually I actually had no idea that this said that or that this meant this. Right. Kind of thing. I'm not in the business of like changing people's minds. Right. But I will give you all the education necessary from both perspectives, and you figure it out from there.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

And I think that you raise a good point, and and what I was gonna jump on too is we act like we're just so and I hear I said we're the fabric of America and we're so smart. But we have those moments where we act like we're so high and mighty and we're so smart we know better than anybody else. Right. Our problem is we don't want to listen to all the sides. We only want to listen to the side that we align with or the side that we think is right, and we don't allow any other room for any other thought, which makes us ignorant. Yeah. Yeah. And like know the issues, know what you're talking about before you open your trap. Right. I think that's important.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

And I think it's so and people will say, like, oh, it's you know, you're surrounding yourself with like-minded people, and you don't have any friends that are on this side. And I'm like, it's not that I don't have friends who are conservative, I do. And like I've I'm registered unaffiliated. Like my I mean my voting record is public. I'm registered unaffiliated, I'm not affiliated with either side. Um, I do tend to obviously lean more liberal and vote more liberal um on issues, and I have friends who are very near and dear to my heart that are more conservative on certain issues. Now, they're not conservative on issues that come down to like a human rights thing, or else we wouldn't really be friends. Right, right. But they may have different ideas on things like gun control, or on things like health care, or on things like um taxes, taxes, or like financial things, like they may have different ideas on that. They and you know, and that's whatever, and I can have conversations with them about that. And I have a friend of mine who is very like Second Amendment, like gun loves guns, and I dig him every time I see him about it because I'm very much in support of gun control. Um, and he is not this friend that I have, and I've we just kind of go back and forth with each other and pick on each other about it, but I can hear his side, right? And he will hear my side, yeah. And we both, and I'm like, I know that I'm not gonna change your mind, you're not gonna change my mind. Now, do we agree on issues of like again, human rights? Right. Yes, we do. That's why we we, you know, that's why we're friends. Right. Um, but we can have differences of opinions on things, you know, like that. And for some people, they can't have differences of opinions on that. That's a really hot issue for them.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

And I think it kind of goes back to, you know, uh when we talk about like even finding a mate, finding a partner that you align with, sure, we could be different races, we could be different cultures. It's those core things, those things that sort of unite, those core values, those morals, those ethics, those things. Like, if you don't align in that, probably not gonna have much of a relationship or friendship because those are the things, the things that we believe in, the things that we would fight for that we're passionate about, that if we don't align in those areas, it is highly likely that we probably won't be friends because we're just gonna keep misstepping every time. We're just we're not gonna be in sync with each other. And if those things that are fundamentally what I value and we don't align in that, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I've you know, I've I've been friends with people and I have been on dates with people who, as we start kind of getting into talking about some of this stuff, realize that we don't align politically, and I'm like, um, you know, this has been great, but we could have that conversation of like, hey, this is never gonna work because of these things. Like, I can still like you as a person, but you know, I have we're never gonna this is not gonna be good. Yeah, exactly in the long run. Like we can still be friends, but I'm not gonna build my life with somebody I can't.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

And honestly, if they don't even have the similar value system, it may not be even a friendship worth having.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

So, you know. Yeah, yeah, some distance there is I've had that happen too, where you know, we'll start talking about something and they'll be like, Yeah, I don't think black people should be able to vote or something crazy like that. And I'm like, oh this has been great. I will never see you again. Yikes. Kind of thing. Like that's a that's a very big like you probably just give exaggeration. Like, wow, but situations kind of like that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

Where you know and and you know, again, sometimes people are just uninformed and uneducated. Sometimes they came from generation or they came from a family that has these beliefs and they don't really know that much about them, they haven't stepped outside their world, you know, and so maybe they need a friend who is willing to share that point of view or willing to share policies or that kind of thing to just sort of broaden them a little bit. And I think college does a beautiful job at that. Um, but you know, so sometimes you just need that. Um, but also I think I am of the mindset of I might be a Christian, but I don't beat anybody over the head with the Bible because that's your choice. I I value wherever you come from, and it's important to you, and that's that's fantastic. I want you to believe what you believe in. Um, so I ain't ever gonna beat you over the head. And that goes in politics as well. I'm not gonna beat you over the head with my my beliefs because that's what I believe, not what you believe. Yeah. At the same time, though, yeah, I do believe that we need to educate ourselves and um be informed. Because if we're not informed, it's just gonna cause more division. And we I I I don't want to say that we walk on eggshells because I think that it's important that everybody's voice be heard, but at the same time, I think sometimes we need to take a step back, yeah, and and recognize when our own um whether political beliefs or social issues are starting to come out too much because that will cause people to go run for the hills in either direction.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

Yeah. Well, and I think it's also important to understand that people can change.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Like, and I think the honestly, I think the the more liberal side has a harder time accepting this. Like, I've seen that where it's like, you know, someone who has put in some work to overcome some racist ideas or some homophobic ideas or things like that has put in this work and is trying to be better and understand, and we all messed up from time to we all make mistakes, so don't act like you're better than anybody else. Um, but I think people who are more on that, like I think it's harder for them to accept that people can change, and I think we have to be really mindful and really careful of that.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

Of of recognizing when someone is putting in that effort, acknowledging that, and saying, like, you know, I appreciate the work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Like, we may not be ready to be best friends, but I do I appreciate the work that you're putting in and that you're educating yourself on this. And that's because that's huge. It is huge. Especially like we've talked about last week, the family, you know, generational history and stuff like that. If you're the first person in your family to vote a different way or think a different way, that's really freaking hard. Yes. I was really lucky to be raised in a family that shared my belief system. Like I didn't have to go against my family. I mean, we I do in some ways. Like, I'm definitely a lot more um outspoken. Outspoken, and I would say I'm probably more liberal than a lot of my family members, but not really.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

I mean and I wonder too, is it a generational thing? Are some people just a little bit quieter? I mean, maybe my generation, I don't know if we're a little bit quieter necessarily. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. I don't know. I think you're a little your generation is a little more loud and proud.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Yeah, and I think it's getting more so with each generation. Yes, um, because like my mom is she believes, you know, many of the same things that I believe. Um, but she is a lot more reserved with that stuff. Like she's not she's not going to the protests, she's not, you know, doing that kind of thing. Um and you know, I think she, and I my brother is definitely this way. If it doesn't affect him personally, yeah, he's not really involved in it or got an opinion on it. And that comes from a place of privilege. And I've had that conversation with him, and I'm like, you know, you can do that because it doesn't affect you. Right. Like day to day, like that is a privilege.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

Um, and but I mean that could fall into anything. I mean there are many issues that don't affect certain people, so and you know, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Yeah, we may not be as educated on them. Yeah. So but yeah, I think moral of the story Mateo, dude. Be try to educate yourself as much as you can.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

And put in boundaries, you know. If you feel like, whoo, this is something that just riles me up and I just cannot see this person, or yeah, let's not go to the grocery store and throat punch people. Let's just say, you know what, we can't be friends and delete them from social media or don't call them back, don't text them anymore. Because, like we talked about last week, drop the rope. Yeah, like don't engage in that power struggle because that's what people want.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

And it can be really hard when it's someone that you've respected for a long time. And it hurts, and it can really hurt like hearing some of the things that you know, people that I've known my whole life believe regarding interracial marriage and things like that, oh that was really hard. Like that was really a hurtful thing for me to hear to be like, wow, I you know, have been close to this person my whole life, you know, but if they fundamentally believe that the person that I I shouldn't love the person that I love, I don't think I have space for that in my life. No, and again, I will be cordial, I will be friendly even.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

And maybe they can change.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

And maybe they can change. Like I'm not gonna completely cut them out of my life and say, never again will we speak, but like you're not invited to the wedding. Yeah, and it's gonna take a lot of work. And I'm gonna need to see you do some things that show me that I like that my partner is safe around you and that my hypothetical future children would be safe around you. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Um and I think that's fair. I agree. Thanks. I think so too. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

See, look at us agreeing. I know, and and not that we disagree, honestly, but I think that uh But I think we do have different thoughts on certain things. Absolutely. And I think that you're very loud about it and I'm not. Right. Um and so I I I've had many friends who are like, I I don't even know where you fall. I don't even know what your thoughts are.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

And you know that person, like you you know.

unknown 41:47

Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Like I surprise people a lot of times. Are you gonna come out and tell me that you're like a raging homophobe here in a minute? No, because that would really upset my lesbian friends. Yeah. See, I see I know where you fall on these issues. And I say that because I see the actions. Right. Right, right. Like I I see the actions that you do and that reflect on your values. Right. You know. The actions that I do. The actions that you do. You know, driving naked to store. Driving naked to the store. No, but like, you know. The people you surround yourself with. Right. And the like events you attend and the the spaces that you occupy. Like, you're not at the insurrection. No. You so you know. No. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

I had another joke, but I'm not gonna say it. Oh my god, please. Please say it. I wasn't at the insurrection, but I was at the erection. Sorry, can't help it. That was good. Sorry.

unknown 42:54

I do it.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

I did watch the insurrection on television live as it was happening.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

No, didn't even do that.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

I'm not gonna give that any energy. It was very upsetting. But I also felt like it was a moment in history and I was like, dang, I feel like I should watch this.

SPEAKER_03 43:09

I mean, I do, I I get that. And you know I love history. I love anything, you know.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

But no, I I will tell you though, you know, we talked in the last um episode about like people who are calm. I have never seen my dad more upset than watching that.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

And he barely has a blood pressure.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

I know. And but and his thing was like as a veteran, because he did, you know, he is a veteran. Um too, and he was like, This is not America. Like this is not the country that I fought for. Right. Like, this is not it. And like he was pissed like to the point that I've not seen him as mad witnessing something. And I was like, whoa, this is wild.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

I'm I and I'm gonna throw something out. They don't listen, I don't think. But if you do, hey y'all. Something that has I couldn't even believe it because it happened in 2022. So uh my friends, well, actually, they're our mutual friends. They're a same-sex couple. They, you know, got married in like 2019 or something. Anyway, so they decided to have a baby. They used in vitro, so it was one mom's egg, and the one that carried, um, it wasn't her egg, it was her wife's egg. Um, and it was fertilized by a sperm donor, and uh sh you know, the other wife carried. So the wife that carried the baby and gave birth to the baby had to adopt him. Because even though she gave birth to him, she had no legal right to him because she was biologically not his mother. I was like Even though they had like the marriage, like They were married. Yeah. They were married. They were married years before they ever had a baby. This bothered me so bad that they had to go and pay money to a lawyer and go and file a petition of adoption for a child that she carried in her body that she didn't drink coffee for, that she stopped drinking, uh taking all like um taking, um you know, having any milk products and stuff that you know she she was like lactose intolerant for a while. All these things that she did to ensure that this was a healthy, safe baby.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Her baby. And the partner they did everything except the act, you know?

SPEAKER_03 45:49

Right. Well, and and yes, with the f sperm. Yeah. They did everything that didn't have sperm, right? And yet she has to adopt her child, their child. Just oh, sent me over the edge. Sent me over the edge. I was like this, I was so angry with that.

SPEAKER_02 46:10

So do parents that have an egg implanted, like a like a heterosexual couple that have an like a donated embryo or whatever, like Yes. They do they have to adopt it?

SPEAKER_03 46:26

So there's something about have you heard that phrase adopting an embryo? Yeah. Okay, so there's some legalities around that. And I don't know if the legalities start at adopting an embryo or what happens when the child is born. I would guess when the child is born, they have to adopt it. Which is just like this makes no sense.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Because I have sense. I have friends who like like the eggs, like her she could carry, but like her eggs didn't work or whatever, you know, and like and his sperm didn't work or whatever. Okay, wow. Um you did a whole swimmy thing, I appreciate it. Um that was great. And so they they did. They had an embryo from someone who had donated their eggs that had been fertilized by a sperm donor. And so she so neither that child is not doesn't have any genetic material from the parents. Right. But she birthed it. Right. And I've just I never asked that question if they had to adopt.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

Probably had to adopt. But I bet they probably did. That's crazy. I was I was so just fired up about this. That's insane. And she was telling me this and she was like, Yeah, you know, I've gotta adopt him. And I was like, okay, what you just pushed him out of your vagina. Her wife, because she is genetically related to that child, doesn't have to go through the process of adopting him. Oh no, no, no, no. She has to adopt him almost like she's a single parent. Yeah. Because technically, if, you know, if her wife died. Right. And I'm gonna give her wife a fake name here, I'm gonna call her Maggie. If Maggie died, she has no legal right to the child that came out of her vagina. No legal right, unless she adopts that child. So by default, Maggie's family would get rights to the child. Would have rights to the child and she would not, because they are genetically related to him. I'm telling you, girl, my mind was blown. Whoa, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

I feel like I have to do so much more research into this. Like this fire. I feel like I need to write a letter to somebody. I was so just like I need to call my senator and be like, hey, did you know this? This is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

I was and I guess it just never even crossed my mind. It never crossed my mind. I mean, he grew in her womb. She carried him, she birthed him. I like she felt the movement. She felt the movement, she was doing everything that she needed to do. She I remember we were working together at the time and she was um eating constantly. And we would always always do these things at work where we would like sanctuary, like check in with each other, like, how are you feeling today? And she would always say, Hungry. And she was, she was eating everything, and I was like, Where have you been? And she was like, McDonald's, you know, like she was eating everything. I loved it. But but no, she did everything, and then at the end of the day, this child that you went through like ripped your vagina open. Yeah, you know, um, oh, that's not my kid. Oh, you have no legal rights to oh got fired up.

unknown 49:44

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 49:45

Anyway, yeah. So sorry, this was a really long-winded array around it, but that was I tell you what, that was an issue, and and like I said, I don't get too heated too often. Yeah, but that fired me up. I was furious. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

Oh yeah, I'll call my senator.

SPEAKER_03 50:03

Haley, get on it immediately.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

I will write a strongly worded letter. Maybe an email.

SPEAKER_03 50:10

Nowadays, email will get there quicker. Email or snail mail it too. Do both call. Certified letter. Certified letter. Make him sign for it. Fax it. Ooh, we're going old school. Maybe maybe a pigeon, carrier pigeon. Smoke signal. Yeah. Smoke signal. I like that one. I'm like, I mean, this is an issue. Yes. Wild. Yes. Um, so I didn't mean to share your business. Maggie and Julie totally made up your names. Um, but like that's it hit me hard.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

But that's something like I had no idea.

SPEAKER_03 50:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

Like Absolutely. I had no idea that was a thing.

SPEAKER_03 50:49

Me neither, until they told me, and I couldn't have to be a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 50:51

And I have like said, couple friends that have kids. And never knew that they've had to go that they had to go through that.

SPEAKER_03 50:58

Yeah. And if they haven't, do know, like legally. They need to. They need to. So that there's some protection. Because otherwise, yeah. And if you divorce. So also, like, let's say that you don't let's say that Julie didn't adopt her son. Right. Okay. Uh, if Julie and Maggie divorced, by default, Julie would have no right to that child. That is my mind is blown.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

Mine was too. Mind is blown.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

Well. If you have an issue that you're passionate about, please write your senator.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

Or Haley.

SPEAKER_02 51:37

Or me.

SPEAKER_03 51:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:38

Write to me.

SPEAKER_03 51:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

I'll do some research. But you can see where where I'm passionate. Social issues. Yeah. Dude. I'll find um I'll find a bill on um if you're interested in ever looking at policy. Um GovTrack is a website that you should check out because you can read the full bills and you can read all of their versions. Um and see kind of where it started to where it ended, and see who has sponsored it and all the things, if you're interested in that kind of stuff. I think for sometimes I just peruse it for fun.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

Okay. Well, um here's what I will do. I will find an issue that fires me up, and I will send Haley out into the field and just get her to just look at all those policies and then give me the Cliff Notes version of it. I will do so. Good job. That's called a policy brief. I would prefer a policy brief. Nailed it. I will do it.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

Because I'm not a policy girl. I am. I'm such a nerd.

SPEAKER_03 52:44

I'm a history buff. I love to learn more about inner workings of psychology and how somebody's mind works and all these things. But policy written by, you know, bunch of people in suits just kind of just sorry about that.

SPEAKER_02 53:01

It gets pretty wild in the you know, the paragraphs there. I where's the popcorn?

SPEAKER_03 53:12

I don't know. I'm choking on it. Like that bug earlier. That was ridiculous. It was like seriously like flying around in there. Now it's gonna come out later on. Yikes.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Okay. Well, on that happy note, sorry, um, if you guys would like to send us your own questions that you have for us, um, or your own deep thoughts, uh, you can do so by sending us a voice memo or just an email or text to deep thoughts with h at gmail.com. Our Facebook is Deep Thoughts with Holly and Haley, and our Instagram is Deep Thoughts with H H. How are they gonna send us a text? Like if they write it out. It's like it's uh like like text. Not a text, but send us like a message, like an instant message or something. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:06

Like they don't have our phone numbers. No. Alright. 70432. No. Sorry. None of that. None of that. None of that. For a good time, call Haley. 828. That's all I got. Honestly, I don't have the rest of it because I don't know your number without. I don't even know if that was your area code that you just said. I don't think it is. No, I don't even know my area code. I don't know where I live. I don't know who I am. I was gonna say, I like, do you really not know? I do.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

No, I know my phone.

SPEAKER_03 54:40

I listen, I know my phone number, my mommy's, my daddy's.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

I know my brother's and my grandmother's.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

I don't know my fiance's number off the top of my head. That feels bad. That you gotta remember that. And you've gotta start to like memorize his social security.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_03 54:58

You are because it'll be, you know, you'll be somewhere and they'll be like, okay, and what's your husband's social?

SPEAKER_02 55:03

And you're like, uh let me call him. Like, I um let me give you a call real quick. It took me I don't know how many years to memorize mine. I know mine now.

SPEAKER_03 55:13

Yeah. I don't know my son's, and I need to I know You should know that one. Oh my gosh, it's terrible. Tax season will come around, and I'm like, oh crud. I gotta get his. And so, you know, I gotta get into the um safe and get out of the social security whoopsies.

SPEAKER_02 55:32

I know, and they give you the flimsiest card.

SPEAKER_03 55:35

You know what though, I um um laminated it.

SPEAKER_02 55:39

Both bars. I don't think you're supposed to do that. Are you not? No. Whoopsie. I think that makes it like invalid. Like if you had to show your social somewhere. No one's ever said anything.

unknown 55:54

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

I don't think you're allowed to laminate them. Let me Google it real quick. I'm curious.

SPEAKER_03 56:01

I don't say that because now I'm going to jail.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

Can you laminate your social security card? Laminate your social security card. I haven't. No. I haven't. I'm just warns that a lamination copy can prevent the detection of security features, such as special paper. Prevents verification of the card's authenticity. So mine from 1984 that's literally falling apart.

SPEAKER_03 56:30

Well, it's authentic. Um, not if it's laminated. No, I was just kidding, it's not laminated.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

If you have already laminated it, you may need to request a replacement card from the Social Security Administration. Good to know. Yeah. Good to know. So if you're thinking about it, maybe don't do it. Maybe don't.

SPEAKER_03 56:47

Oh God. Well, this was worth it.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

I don't think anybody cares.

SPEAKER_03 56:49

Uh Mateo, thank you so much. You clearly have brought out a lot of very passionate feelings in us. Yeah. Um, so I think that the answer is how to stop with the divisiveness, is put in boundaries and um surround yourself with people who you feel safe, but also educate yourself on all the policies and be open. Be open to information on both sides. Yeah. Oh, Haley. Yeah. This has been delightful. Should we gather around the fire in St. Cumbaya? Sure. Okay. Okay, we'll do that in a minute. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

Bye.

SPEAKER_03 57:28

Deep Thoughts is a production by Holly and Haley. Social media brought to you by Holly. Podcast editing by Haley. Visual design by Marquez. For sponsorship opportunities, please reach out to us via email, Deep Thoughts with H at gmail.com.