How Modern Life is Shaping the Teenage Mind | Dara Wax

Join the conversation beyond the episode inside The Gentle Year Facebook community — a thoughtful space for parents seeking clarity, encouragement, and real dialogue.

In this episode of The Gentle Year, Knikki sits down with Dara Wax—global health expert, founder of SAM+LEO, and mom of two teenage boys—for an unfiltered conversation about what teen mental health actually looks like.

This isn’t a clinical discussion or a list of warning signs. It’s a grounded, honest exploration of what parents are seeing every day but rarely feel safe saying out loud.

Together, they ask the questions many parents are asking themselves:

• What if teen “mental health” is too broad a term to be useful—and actually hides what kids really need?
• Are we unintentionally creating addictions through screens, even when we have good intentions?
• Why does taking a phone away sometimes look and feel like withdrawal?
• What happens when therapy, medication, or school accommodations aren’t enough?
• How do you support a teen without making them feel like something is wrong with them?
• What if resilience isn’t missing but simply hasn’t been exercised?
• How much of anxiety is about the world kids are inheriting, not their personal weakness?
• What does real emotional safety look like in a home?
• And what do you do when you mess up as a parent… and need to repair?

Dara shares deeply personal stories about raising teens with anxiety, OCD, ADHD, and heightened sensitivity while navigating divorce, COVID disruptions, rural vs. urban schooling, and the quiet fear many parents carry about what their kids are seeing online. The conversation explores screen time, peer pressure, diet, sleep, self-talk, and why modeling imperfection may be one of the most overlooked tools in parenting today.

This episode is for parents who are tired of shallow awareness campaigns and want something more honest. For those who are trying to support their kids without hovering, fixing, or panicking. And for anyone who suspects that teen wellness isn’t about having all the answers but about asking better questions, earlier.

If you’ve ever wondered:

Am I doing too much? Not enough? Or the wrong thing entirely?

This conversation is for you. 

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Transcript

[00:00:02,240]
Hey everyone, welcome to The Gentle Year. We are here with Dara Wax, and I’m so excited to have her. Today’s topic is about something that’s near and dear to my heart as a teacher: teenage mental health.

So, Dara, would you please share your origin story with us? Tell us a little bit more about yourself, parenting, and how you got into this space.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Yeah, it’s quite the story. It’s definitely a pivot, second career for me. My background has been in global health, public health, and most of my time was with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, with a lot of travel. But I’m also a mom, and I have two kids. I have two boys who just turned—one just turned 18, Leo, and then Sam, who is 15.

[00:00:46,350]
And through that process of raising teens, I’ve had my own struggles—my own mental health and managing theirs—and a lot of education and the journey of raising kids. And in that process, with COVID happening, I wasn’t traveling so much for my own career.

I was sitting on this idea that there are a lot of missing products and needs in the teen space, in the clean teen space. So then I developed a clean gummy vitamin to support teen wellness. It actually is safe for kids and adults as well, but really leaning into supporting our teens and also parenting.

Because I’m sure all of your listeners are familiar, in all of our journeys, it feels very lonely at times. And so part of my “why” in this was to bring community together and have more sharing through vulnerability and sharing our stories.

Yeah, no, I really appreciate that. So global health—obviously some of us can get caught up in our world, and our worlds can feel very small, especially when we are suffering from a mental health crisis or a mental health situation. Everything just feels like the walls are kind of coming in on us.

So what’s your experience in global health? What does that mean, and how does that look for you?

[00:01:34,950]
Yeah, so that’s a good question. Traditionally, I would say—even before COVID—global health really meant diseases of poverty, developing world TB, HIV, malaria, Ebola—diseases that often were neglected before funding.

And that didn’t necessarily always impact our world, but as we know, our world is connected. And so a lot of times, if those diseases aren’t treated or supported, it has economic implications, global security implications.

So my background has mostly been in international development and economics. A lot of what I did was everything from running clinical trials in those diseases to working with other governments to fund them. And really, from all aspects—from drugs, diagnostics, vaccines.

I would say the world looked really different before COVID because people really wanted those solutions, because oftentimes that meant your child would die if you didn’t have those things. Things have changed a little bit now politically, but the need is still there for diseases that are neglected.

[00:03:08,250]
And so a lot of my career was spent supporting those—through clinical trials, funding them, or thinking about how it actually did impact us.

Yeah, I really appreciate you clarifying that and giving us that information. So you mentioned that the world looked different before COVID, and I think all of us can agree on that. We may not all agree politically on different things and whatnot, but we can all agree that the world looks very different than it did before COVID.

So in terms of mental health, though, what’s the difference between then and now? The way I look at life, it’s hard for me to look at the years now because I say to myself there’s either pre-COVID or post-COVID. I don’t know what happened in 2022 or 2020—I don’t have any idea.

So in terms of pre- and post-COVID, what’s different in terms of mental health that you see?

[00:03:49,880]
Yeah, well, I have two areas that I look at mostly for this. One is mental health, which covers this huge umbrella of so many things—depression, anxiety, eating disorders, bullying, substance abuse. There’s so much—OCD, I mean, everything falls under mental health. And each one of those things is so different and treated so differently.

So one is calling awareness to it, but the other is I don’t know if it helps us, and maybe it’s a disservice, that it all falls under this one umbrella of mental health. So that’s one area.

The second is—I also think—that we might not know yet the ripple effects from COVID, meaning what the data looks like, especially when it comes to kids and teens. What we are seeing is definitely this increase in screen time, feeling safe behind our screens, safety at home.

So it’s impacting social behaviors. What I saw in my own kids—and I think other parents experienced too—depending on where your kids are in those developmental ages. Each one of these groups is like two or three years.

For example, my high schooler—my 18-year-old—missed this whole time in middle school where you’re starting to date or go out with groups of girls and boys, movies. They missed this whole social part of their development, and so they almost don’t know how to—or it looks very different.

And so I don’t think we have all that data of what that looks like, but I am seeing the impact of what happened to us in COVID. It’s impacting social behavior. It’s impacting what feels safe and what doesn’t feel safe.

[00:05:12,130]
Yeah, definitely. Are you seeing—even though you’re not looking at data, data—are you seeing any anecdotal data that you would like to share with our audience today?

Yeah. Well, most of the data—I see lots of data, I should say. I would say screen time is huge, and both ends of the spectrum. My kids do screens. I’m on screens. We all are screen people.

We are seeing this pendulum shift of—it’s like giving kids an addiction at really young ages. We should not be giving our kids phones at certain ages. We are seeing that for sure.

My 15-year-old only got a phone last year. He was at a different school where a lot of his peers didn’t have phones, and we were able to see this direct correlation of reduction of anxiety and different behaviors without access to the phone. But it only really works when the peer pressure is relieved, because the whole cohort really needs to be involved.

So I think screens and online presence are a huge impact we’re seeing.

[00:06:41,740]
There’s this bucket of depression and higher rates of suicide. I also preface this by saying that I don’t have the letters after my name. I’m not a qualified social worker. I read a lot of this data. I see a lot. I talk to parents.

There’s a huge impact of depression, and whether that’s because of the state of the world, right? Is it politics? Is it post-COVID? Is it the current state of our world—access to media and news and this craziness that’s happening in all of our lives? Safety at school with gun control, things like that.

These kids are just bombarded. So I think some of it is COVID, and some of it is just where we are in our lives right now.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[00:07:21,700]
This may not be the right question, but do you think that we’re giving kids addictions?

Hmm. I agree with you. I’m not sure about the question, but I know what you’re saying, and I know how I feel about it.

Yeah, because I feel addicted, right? So if I’m feeling addicted and I have the tools to stop, pause, or do journaling or meditation, how possibly can a 12- or 13-year-old have those skills? And so that’s where I’m concerned.

If I see how it impacts me, how can we possibly expect kids without developed brains to have those tools? And then, as many of the guardrails we have are controls of what they can and can’t see—parental controls—we really don’t know everything they see.

And that’s what’s scary, is their access. And then hoping that you’re building that communication channel so they come and talk to you. That’s hope, right? You’re hoping that you’ve developed those communication tools, but you don’t know for sure what they’re keeping.

So that concerns me about addiction. I think we know enough about addiction that it’s usually not siloed into one thing. So say you cure screen addiction, but you have an addictive personality—does that go somewhere else? Is there substance abuse? Is there other things? That’s what worries me too, that it’s a gateway.

[00:08:55,490]
Yeah, most definitely. Well, there’s been some trends recently with governors and even entire countries banning cell phones from schools and things of that nature. Are you in support of that movement?

That’s a good question. I am. We were in a school district that did it quite early. And what we saw was a couple of things. One, kids are smart, and they would bring burner phones. They’d put one phone in and keep their other one.

So I am in support of it, but I think you need more education, more foundation, more support than just taking the phone away. There needs to be a broader support system around whatever change you’re trying to make.

The second thing is there was a direct correlation noticed in the lunchroom. When the phones went away, kids started talking to each other. They were engaging. There was awareness that trickles down.

It goes back to school safety and gun control. Even if kids are aware of their surroundings—if someone’s having a bad day or a bad week—they’re much more likely to be aware than if they’re always looking at their phones.

So I think it actually improves safety if people are more aware around them. And then kindness, right? They’re checking in with each other. They’re having to engage instead of going to their phone, where that feels safer.

[00:10:20,000]
Yeah, I hadn’t even thought about the gun control aspect. When kids are sitting in a cafeteria all together and they’re staring at their phones, and then if something—God forbid—were to happen, nobody’s aware.

It’s going to take those extra seconds for the brain to process what’s happening, and those seconds could be the difference between life or death. That’s pretty morbid, but I hear you, and I’m glad you brought that up.

In terms of peer pressure, you mentioned that peer pressure has to be relieved. What did you mean by that? Because just banning phones across the board can have a positive effect, but there’s this other aspect that doesn’t really get talked about a lot—that peer pressure or peer support to lean into that. What does that look like for you?

[00:11:08,370]
Yeah. What I was alluding to was the school and community my son was in at that time—an age group of probably 11- to 13- or 14-year-olds. None of those kids had phones. It was kind of a group, a conscious decision.

Some of it was driven by parents of younger kids, and then it was easier to enforce when none of the kids had phones. They could have an Apple Watch—there were ways of connecting, not a complete shutoff. It just made everything easier.

And the kids felt relief because they were not “other.” They were not outside the social norms. There was no Snapchatting that they weren’t part of. And so it made things a lot easier.

I don’t think that’s the norm because it was a very small cohort, but what I could see from that was that if we trend toward kids getting phones or access to social media later—15, 16, even 17—it gives them much more space age-wise and socially to develop.

[00:11:43,670]
Yeah, I appreciate that. This is probably one of the very few things in terms of policy that I personally support across the board. I’m not a big fan of sweeping, broad-stroke policies, but for the cell phone thing, I can’t really articulate an argument against it—at least not one that makes sense to me.

So in terms of your kids, how did COVID and everything the world went through impact your kids in terms of mental health?

Yeah, well, everyone has a special case…

[00:12:33,450]
We, um, we moved from a big city to a rural [area], so that impacted them. We also went through a divorce in that time period, so a lot of other things were happening. But I don’t think that’s actually unique to us. A lot of families were dealing with so many different things. So I think you take what was happening and then also family stuff.

My kids, in some ways, felt this relief of not having to go, go, go in a bustling city. They could have some space to be themselves in a public school, in a country setting—more outdoor time. But there was still this fear that, I guess, what’s happening in the world? What’s going to happen? The unknown. They’re old enough that they didn’t need to be entertained all the time.

[00:13:21,200]
Like, you know, parents of very small kids were constantly like, “Had no support,” right? Because you’re with your kids all the time. Schools closed. You have to entertain them. They were a little bit older, but they weren’t so old that they were independent.

And so, I think that, in some ways, it brought us closer. You could see what was happening. You had more of a finger on the pulse of what was happening with your kids. On the other hand, it’s not real life, right? What they experienced is not what we experienced as kids growing up—or the real world.

And so how do you take that experience and then go on and jump two to three years later than expected, to be this new person in society, functioning in society, be back in a classroom—all of these things? And so I think it was really challenging.

[00:14:02,540]
I also think my kids, in some ways—I’m just thinking about this now—perhaps have closer friendships with very few kids than having more broad relationships. And I don’t know, I’ve seen it with a few of my friends. I’d be interested to know this more broadly. But I see more depth in their friendships than breadth, and I’m wondering if that’s a COVID takeaway.

Yeah, an implication of COVID. That’s positive. That’s interesting.

So yeah, I agree with you 100% that sometimes we don’t do a great job keeping the finger on the pulse of what people are going through, especially kids. And you had mentioned before that we don’t always know what they’re seeing online, and that’s a really, really good point.

[00:14:47,470]
And so I was just wondering how you regulate that with your own children, especially—I think you mentioned that your son Sam, was it, that got his phone at 15 years old?

Yeah, he had it earlier, and then we took it away when other kids didn’t have it. And we were noticing that his anxiety was just through—like, he was really [in a] horrible crisis time, and we can get into that as well. But I’m supportive of if parents use medication—whatever you need to support your kids. It actually didn’t work for him. He didn’t metabolize medication. And so we were really struggling. And what’s the solution? We tried outpatient therapy. We tried a lot of things. And so I’m all for whatever works for your kid.

[00:15:25,210]
But what we did find is that as soon as that phone was away, there was definitely a decrease in this anxiety. And I was like, “You can’t ignore what we just saw.” And so that was one part of it.

And then… and then you were saying about the age 15, kind of what the… the mental health. Yeah, yeah.

Um… yeah, I think there was a direct correlation. It’s hard to parse it out because that was right at the end of COVID. You’re turning 15, you’re going through puberty. It’s hard to know cause and effect of different things and elements, but I definitely saw a reduction because of phones.

The other thing you were asking about is access, and how do you control that access?

[00:16:12,110]
Yeah, the regulation. We definitely have scheduled time. So, like, the phone turns off at a certain time every evening. It’s a little bit different on weeknights and weekends. So the phone and computer time—Wi-Fi goes off. So that part is controlled. I don’t want them up all night, you know, even if they’re tired, you know, keep going.

Because they’re our phones, they know we can check them. So we have access to their code, their passwords. They should know that. They know that we could at any time.

We have lots of open conversations about even pornography. Like, they’re boys, right? They’re teen boys. We talk about that’s not what real intimacy looks like. You’re going to have lots of access to it.

[00:16:57,910]
Even if we put those guardrails up, they’re going to find it. And so it’s actually just being proactive and having those conversations. They know they can come to me and have any of those conversations. Both the kids have and had those conversations.

I know this is hard space and it’s hard conversations. It’s not easy for parents. I’ve also done a lot of just leaving—casually leaving—books out where they can just pick them up if they want to. One is a book that was recommended called Hi, H-I-G-H, and it’s all about drug addiction and like, what do drugs do to you? And I’d rather them have the information so they can look at it rather than wonder or even Google it. So part of our strategy has been just to casually leave information out that they can then pick up when they want to, and not feel like it’s being monitored.

[00:17:39,240]
And then… some of it has been, as I’ve been able to see behavior mature and trust more access. So then you can have Discord, or then if I know you’re getting enough sleep, you have access to games. But it didn’t just all come with a flood, right? I just didn’t hand them this open book or this whole—no pun intended—this open phone or gaming system with unlimited access. It was very strict.

Like, they didn’t get access to Instagram or Facebook or those type of social media either until probably even 16.

Yeah, yeah, I definitely can appreciate that. Well, you mentioned that your son had horrible anxiety.

[00:18:27,430]
And when you took the phone away, did you receive any pushback from him?

Oh, yes. In the beginning, it was bad. It was almost like a detox, right? That’s why we can definitely consider it an addiction. There definitely was anger involved. It was a little bit easier because this other friend group didn’t have it—I’ll say that—but he’s the younger child, so his older brother still had it, so that didn’t feel fair.

Um, but it was one of those times where we just knew it was in his best interest, and we said, “This is what we have to do.” He also knew that he was struggling and kind of in a crisis, and things were not working—like, he was not feeling good about himself.

[00:19:08,460]
And so I think that was part of the conversation. What caused him to not feel good about himself? Was it just the comparison? In my head, I’m imagining that he’s online and he’s looking at photos of people and they’re having a good time with their friends or whatever the case is. And maybe he’s comparing himself, or it could be something completely different. What do you know? What was causing his anxiety?

And trying to protect some of his privacy as he’s getting older. But, you know—an ADHD brain, anxiety. He has very severe OCD. So there’s a lot of anxiety, just in general, and that wants to find a home. Where does it feel good? Where do you self-soothe?

[00:19:51,490]
And that usually goes to online because a lot of ADHD kids feel very comfortable online and gaming because it’s a controlled environment. They know what’s expected. They know the rules. They feel successful there. It just feels good to go there, versus having to interact with the real world—the unknown.

Oftentimes, I knew this about my son: he preferred adults to kids because they were predictable. He knew how they were going to act, where a kid didn’t. He would often—if he had some school avoidance—seek out principals or school psychologists because they knew how to interact with him versus kids.

And so I think that anyone who has anxiety—predictability and places of comfort, what you seek out—would benefit from that. Uh…

[00:20:38,180]
And then we can have a whole other conversation about therapy and access to therapy. And my feeling about that is even if you have access to therapy and you have the resources, an hour a week scratches the surface of being able to support that, especially as parents, right? You get some tools, you practice it, you have a third party help you through things, but that’s not your real life managing kids.

And so you start to look at what are other ways to help your child feel better about themselves, I think. For my children, it was less about comparison and more just how the world felt—how managing… I think—and anxiety also is very genetic.

[00:21:21,840]
And so different environmental factors can make it worse or better, but I think it’s learning how to deal with it in life, and you have the tools, and sometimes you have better equipment. And then you’re going through puberty and your brain’s changing and all these other things impact it.

Um… so it’s just being able to give the tools—the best tools. And the last thing I’ll say is diet, and this is a little bit why I created my business. When you have less and less tools available or medication doesn’t work, you sometimes look at diet. And it’s really hard with kids, and even harder with teens, to manage diet.

And we did find that a gluten-free—or less gluten—definitely reduced anxiety for him.

[00:22:04,770]
And we did that for a few years. And it’s just really hard because it’s not an allergy. He’s not going to die if he eats gluten. But he knew, and we all knew, that it definitely made him feel better to eat less gluten.

Um, there are a lot—yeah, there’s lots of different factors on how you can attack, manage, anxiety for your kids and yourself. But that was just some of our experiences.

Yeah, most definitely. Out of curiosity, when you laid those books down in your house—Hi or different things about drugs, and difficult topics that are sometimes difficult for parents to navigate—do you know if your children ever picked up those books? Did they ever read them or bring it up to you?

[00:22:50,840]
I know they picked them up because I can tell that they’ve been moved or looked through.

Oh, I see.

Yeah. They did not bring up any specific things that I know of. Sexually, we’ve had different sexual conversations about sexuality and about different things like that. Having worked in global health also spans family planning, a lot of those other HIV and stuff like that. So I’m very versed in that and feel very comfortable talking.

I think they kind of roll their eyes because they know that’s my background, but they have been able to have those conversations. It’s also about gender. A lot of things have come up with kids in this generation—more gender fluidity. Um, they look at gender differently than we did growing up, as gender as a construct, how they feel. And so I don’t think we all have the vocabulary or the experience of how to talk to our kids about some of these feelings the way they might, but being able to just be open to explore with them. So I definitely have had some of those conversations with them.

[00:23:44,720]
Um… and then the other books that have been helpful to leave out have been about OCD in particular because, I mean, a lot of OCD is like, “What’s wrong with me? Why is my brain this way?” And knowing that other people have it is just a huge relief. Or how OCD shows up differently for different people is a relief to know that because you think you’re kind of crazy, or it just must be you.

Yeah, that’s interesting. In terms of your son, I know you may not be able to talk about some things, of course, but you had mentioned that you gave your child medication for his anxiety, I believe, but he had to come off of it because he wasn’t metabolizing the medication.

[00:24:33,370]
I have never heard of that before. I’m sure millions of people have, but I personally have not heard of someone not being able to metabolize medication. Can you explain that for me?

Without a medical degree, I’ll kind of note—disclaimer. Disclaimer. So one, there are genetic tests that you can take that help doctors and providers understand which way to start treating—like how your own genetic system will metabolize drugs. And it even applies to things like Tylenol and Advil. Do you over-metabolize? Do you need more because your body goes through it more quickly? Or do you under-metabolize and it doesn’t?

So we already have that as a basis point—how genetically all of us might metabolize things.

Thank you.

[00:25:11,300]
What we’re finding—and this is sometimes when you have, it’s called comorbidity, with multiple things happening—when you have both depression, anxiety, and others, and then you have ADHD, the medications for both of those go up and down. And it’s really hard to balance them, especially in someone who’s challenging to treat, but also metabolically, how do they metabolize them?

The psychiatric field is very challenging that way because some of the medications take weeks to see if your body’s reacting, and some are instant. And you’re constantly trying to balance that in a child, plus puberty, plus everything going on hormonally. For some kids, it’s really hard.

And what we discovered is that as we tried to bring down the anxiety, ADHD would go out. Whereas if we tried to bring the ADHD down, the anxiety would go up. And trying to get that was really hard. And as some of these medications, we were increasing, increasing, increasing with no impact, no effect, or it would make him more anxious, right?

And so you’re like, I’m trying to solve one—it’s like whack-a-mole. You’re trying to do one thing, and then… so that’s kind of what I mean by that.

The other is, metabolically, some drugs—if you’re having a panic attack—are supposed to calm you down right away, and they’re usually in the lorazepam, Ativan kind of group. They’re controlled substances. Um, if you’re having a panic attack and your tools aren’t working, you’re like, “Go right there,” to give a medication.

[00:26:36,440]
The amount I would give him would be the amount like two times that I would take. And that would put me to sleep; he would just keep walking down the street. And so, to know that about your child is like—that’s not, it’s not that it’s not normal—but to know that you can’t just keep giving something that’s not going to work. So unfortunately, a lot of it’s trial and error. And then part of it is there are genetic tests available that aren’t, yes/no, black and white, but help providers know which direction to go.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s definitely a trial and error. I hear you on that. I had a friend once—she’s still my friend—and her son has struggled significantly with different current mental health issues.

[00:27:16,150]
And they have tried all different kinds of medications. They’ve tried different dosages. And I mean, everything from when he was really little to adulthood. They’ve just been experimenting for years, trying to figure out what combination of medication works best for him. So—and it’s been a… it’s definitely been a long roll.

But I’m curious to know: you had mentioned that your son preferred—which one was it? Was it Leo or Sam that preferred talking to adults because they were predictable?

That was Sam.

Okay, great. So my question is, I’m wondering if maybe it was a mix of both, but to what extent do you believe that he genuinely liked talking to adults because he felt they were predictable, versus to what extent do you believe he enjoyed talking with adults more because maybe they made him feel seen more so than his peers? Is that what’s—yeah, what’s your reaction to that?

Um, I think it’s probably both, but knowing him…

[00:28:13,050]
He is like a master negotiator. He’s very suave and swift. And part of it was an avoidance technique. So if he was in an uncomfortable situation and wanted out of it, or in particular, the classroom felt not safe for him, or like he wasn’t learning the way he needed to learn, he could use that as an avoidance technique to say, “I’d like to go talk to the principal now. I’d like to go to the school counselor.”

And they felt that was endearing because then he’d go talk about World War II strategy, or he’d have these amazing conversations. It got him out of doing the thing that was uncomfortable for him, to a place where he definitely felt seen, he felt comfort, he was comforted.

But then it also reinforces this behavior of avoiding, so it didn’t ultimately serve us or him in the long run. And if anything, it caused things to get worse before they got better because he didn’t always know it was happening when he did it. It was like avoidance.

Yeah, that’s interesting.

[00:28:55,300]
So a quick question that just popped into my mind. I know that you went through some challenges with Sam with the phone, and some opposition when you guys took that away. And your older son, Leo—he was 18 at the time. He just turned 18.

Oh, he just turned 18. Okay, I see.

What do you think the difference was between him and Sam? Did he just get the phone later? Why did he not, in your opinion—why do you think he just didn’t struggle as much with the anxiety? Is it just because he was just a different person? I mean, obviously, you know, they’re definitely a different kid.

Yeah. Um… yeah, I think I would probably say it’s just—they’re different. And I definitely think kids are different with how they can handle cell phones, or how addicted they are to them. He’s very much addicted to his phone, like we all are, and keeps it and uses it, but it’s not going to derail his day or cause a panic attack or set off a stronger emotion.

Um, whereas Leo and Sam… I’m also wondering about age-wise. He is, you know, two and a half years older. I think, you know, developmentally, where he was when more access to social media and things might have been further along. Um, but they’re just very different kids. And he has his own struggles. He has his own worries and things like that, but looks at things very differently.

Yeah, you’re definitely right about that.

[00:30:21,530]
Yeah, and if anything, I actually worry more about him—that he keeps it inside. It doesn’t explain. With an explosive child, you know what’s happening. You know something’s happening. With the kid who keeps it in, you’re like, “Oh no, I want you to let this out because I don’t want it to fester.”

Yeah, yeah, that’s really true. And I definitely think you’re right about when technology comes into our life can have a huge impact on how we handle it. I mean, you can even look at it generationally. You think of boomers and the technology came into their lives way, way, way, way later, and we see that that has impacted them in terms of their skills and adaptivity and all different kinds of things.

And then go all the way down to Gen Zers and millennials—where for millennials, that came in, you know, social media came in when I was like a senior in high school. And then for the Gen Zers, you know, they’ve had social media sometimes since birth. And then now we’re looking at Gen Alpha—it’s even more turned up. So it’s a whole thing in that respect.

But you mentioned earlier diet, and I think that’s such a huge component to all of this. I literally scream it from the rooftop sometimes—about just school diets and standard American diets and all that kind of stuff.

[00:31:54,740]
So in terms of managing the diet of your children, and of yourself, and of your family, how do you go about doing that?

This is where I could like fall apart on the ground and start crying—and then also like where I started a business around it. So I kind of joke that I raised my kids all organic and made my own baby food and did all the things, and well-educated, and they still want Subway and Dr. Pepper, right? Even if you do all of the things, they’re still influenced by what they see and what tastes good.

So I think starting at just like, give yourself some grace, because even if you’re going to mess up, they’re still going to make their own decisions. I’m all about balance. They know what’s healthy and what’s not.

I personally grew up in a family that had no access to junk food and sugar, and I craved it all the time. I wanted it. I sought it out, and had all my own weight struggles because of it. So I have kind of done the 180 where I have it accessible—it’s in the house all the time—and then they don’t need it all the time because it’s there.

But I do also see, like, when their friends come over who don’t have access to sugar, they just want to eat it.

[00:32:32,130]
So I think that’s what’s worked for me. First of all is just having access so that it’s not this desired taboo thing that’s never available. The second is just being mindful about how kids are reacting.

I know that, like some—my kids don’t have acne, but I know lots of kids who do have acne. Like, as soon as you take dairy out of their diet and there’s less inflammation, the acne clears up.

I think a lot of it is trial and error, and you have to be willing to do that because it’s really, really hard to institute that in a family where it’s not going to kill you. It’s not an allergy where you need an EpiPen, but it is going to make a health impact in your life.

So I think that’s where it’s the most hard because, you know, if you have a peanut allergy or you have celiac, you know you can’t have that or you’re going to die, or you’re going to be in the hospital. But when it’s just going to improve your quality of life, I think that’s harder.

Um, so those are the two things. I think one is the moderation and having it there, and the other is really being willing to the trial and error.

[00:33:53,950]
Yeah, most definitely. Are your children—are they a part of the decision-making process when it comes to, you know, breakfast, lunch, and dinner?

That’s a good question. My kids are older now, so they definitely have their own decisions. Um, I would say… from age like 13, 14—12, 13, 14—when we’re trying to do the gluten-free with Sam, he was very much aware of why we were—to make his body feel better. And I think he would be able to tell you that his body feels better without gluten.

Does that mean that he wants to eat the ramen and the pizza with his friends and all of that, and that tastes better and feels better? Yes. But he knows that. So those now are his decisions because I can’t be with him all the time, and I don’t want to make those decisions for him. He has that information.

So I think as they grow, I think that’s kind of sweet spot from age seven to 12 is where you have most impact. Um… but they’re going to be at birthday parties. They’re going to be at sleepaway camp. They’re going to be at friends’ houses where they’re going to have to make those own decisions for themselves.

[00:35:09,450]
Yeah, most definitely. How do you think a parent can kind of keep from worrying themselves to death when it comes to this stuff? Because, I mean, when it comes to mental health with teenagers, this is an ongoing thing. It’s a 24-hour, round-the-clock thing. How can parents just not go completely—not lose their mind in worrying about this stuff all the time?

I love that question because what I work on so much of my own journey has been the self-compassion, right? We’re human. We can do the best we can. And I think it’s trust in your gut.

When something feels off, to listen to yourself. If you start to see patterns that don’t make sense or don’t feel good, start to look at that, and then also lean in from a place of curiosity.

So I’m not perfect at this—I’m definitely not—but instead of saying, “You shouldn’t be eating that,” or “Why are you doing that?” or “Get off the computer,” it’s so much better when you… or my experience has been, you know, “I’m wondering why you’re still on the computer,” or, you know, “Does that feel good?” Or, “How does that make you feel in the morning?” Or, “How can I support you?”

Trying to come from a place of support and curiosity—it’s really hard, though, when you’re a tired parent, you’re working all the time, and you’re at your last. You have nothing left in you. Your battery is dead, and you’re like, “Oh, I have to remember to be compassionate to this child.”

[00:36:29,610]
Did you see that one video on—it was a funny video on Instagram—where this woman, it was great. She got on there, and it was just a skit, but she was pretending that her child had asked her something like, “Hey, mom,” and then she turns around and she goes, “What?” And then she tries to calm herself down and she’s like, “What?” And she can’t quite get the “what” right in terms of the tonality that she wants to convey, you know—that compassionate, sweet mom and all that kind of stuff.

It’s hilarious. I’m not a parent, but it was just so relatable because you’re doing 10 million things and then somebody comes up to you with some random question or whatever, and you’re like, “Oh God, what is it now?” You know? And you don’t even have to be a parent. It could be in your workplace, right? You’re managing someone, and you’re like, it could be any part of your life.

To lean in with compassion is always better, but it’s really hard when you’re tired or you’re at your wit’s end. Um, so I think that’s like just human nature. And it’s so hard because we’re all trying to do better than our own parents did, right? We’re all trying to be more available, more emotional.

[00:37:41,770]
Um, undo the generational traumas from the past. Heal our inner child. All of that. And so we’re constantly battling ourselves, right? But even if you don’t have kids, you’re like, “Self-compassion: I’m enough,” or “I’ve done enough today.” You know, like breathing. So I think it’s just taking that approach, and maybe doing that check-in, like, “What’s working?”

One of the things I really like from Dr. Becky is that she usually deals with younger children, and she starts to get into teens a little bit. But this idea of repair—you can always repair, right? Even if you mess up royally, you can always go back and repair. And so I’ve definitely liked walking out of my kid’s room being upset, or we didn’t say things, and then coming back 10 minutes later. I was like, “Listen, I didn’t say that right. What I really meant…” or something. It just goes a long way to show that you’re human.

[00:38:23,250]
The other thing that kind of falls in this vein is role modeling, in that our kids are watching us, you know, all the time, and seeing things. And if we’re able to role model how we deal with our own anxiety, trauma, whatever, then our kids have better tools.

This one example I like to give: I have a friend who had five-year-old twins, and we were just going for a walk. And she was like, “Yeah, every single morning,” you know, “my daughter is obsessed with rebuilding this Lego. Every day in the morning.” And she takes it apart, and then she’s really upset when it’s not perfect, and she has to keep doing it.

And I was like, “Oh, that’s…” and I don’t—I mean, I’m not a therapist. I’ve said that many times. But what came to mind, I was like, “Oh, but maybe if you modeled that you’re messing up—like cut the carrot the wrong way,” or you like saying out loud all the things you’re messing up, because all this five-year-old sees is perfect parents. She sees the mom and dad go to work every day. The laundry gets done. The food gets made. And all our kids see are these, like, perfect—we show them perfection almost. And we don’t always show them the messy things, and so they have no frame of reference.

[00:39:35,130]
And she did it. She started doing it. She’s like, “Oh my gosh, it was like overnight.” And I just, you know, I wish I’d done some of that more when my kids were five and six, and now I have that hindsight more. But I think that role modeling is huge.

Yeah, it really is. Do you think that perfectionism will ever be labeled as a syndrome? Ugh. Because, I mean, is it connected to mental health issues—perfectionism? I’m sure it is.

Yeah, yeah. You know, you had mentioned something earlier that was interesting. You had mentioned that mental health is a really broad term, that it’s an umbrella term, so it can be kind of vague at times. So what does, in your opinion, you know, real wellness look like for a 12-year-old, a preteen, or a teenager today?

[00:40:26,570]
That’s a really good question. I’m going to think about that in a few buckets, maybe.

So one, I like to call it mental hygiene. I think it was used a long time ago. I’d like to see it back. Like we go to the dentist for dental checkups—we should have mental checkups, right? Like, check our teeth, check our brains.

So part of it is just like a check-in, like before anything’s wrong. Like, something doesn’t need to be wrong with you. We’re not trying to fix anything. We’re trying to support. So I think taking that—maybe it’s reframing. And our kids are super sensitive that we’re not trying to fix them; we’re trying to support them. So part of that for me is the reframing.

I think part of it is also thinking about this wellness bucket—asking for help when you need it, like reaching out before, having the tools, right, to reach out for help. Community engagement. Talking to other people about things.

I think when it comes to teens, it’s a lot about safety. Who do they feel safe talking to? Where does it feel safe? If they can feel safe to have an explosion or not, you know, to lose their shit, or to like not have a good day—for it to be okay, and it feels safe—then they know that they can go and do that. Where if they’re keeping it all inside, or that doesn’t feel safe, then that kind of boils over. So I think safety feels is a really important thing.

[00:41:51,110]
But also respect, right? So they can’t just like walk all over you, which a lot of teens do, and my kids definitely have had their moments. Um. But it’s letting them know that you’re a person too with feelings. And so it’s that balance of safety, but also respect. I mean, building that mutual respect.

And then in terms of mental health, I think this is just such a big topic, but it needs to be part of regular medicine, right? Like, how do we get support that’s not siloed away from regular medicine? Because it impacts our stomach and our gut. It impacts brain function, and it impacts so many things that I don’t think it serves anybody to keep it separate.

Also, putting labels on things doesn’t always serve either, right? So like, “I have OCD” or “I have this.” Okay, it’s something, but like, this doesn’t say who you are. It doesn’t—and it doesn’t—shouldn’t limit who you are. And so I’m thinking about better ways to diagnose that doesn’t feel so much as labeling. I think there’s a long way to go in that.

[00:42:41,860]
Yeah, that’s a lot to unpack. And you and I had talked about this on the pre-interview, the term mental hygiene. I remember as soon as you said that, I was like, “Oh yeah, I remember.”

And just for the listeners—for those of you guys who are listening to this episode and meeting Dara for the first time—she and I had talked about this term, mental hygiene. And I’m working on a book for a client now, and he’s a psychotherapist. And back in the day, they termed mental health “mental hygiene.” That was a term at that point in time. This was several decades ago.

And one of the reasons why it was termed mental hygiene was because there was a popular movement at the time of physical hygiene and taking care of yourself, and physically making sure you’re brushing your teeth, make sure you’re washing your face, taking showers, and getting out in the sun, and doing all of those types of things.

And then what occurred was, because the field of psychology and psychotherapy didn’t have as much data and information that we do now, what occurred was serious mental health issues like schizophrenia or PTSD—things like that—were put under the label of mental hygiene, meaning that if you were a schizophrenic, a doctor might say to you, “Hey, just go and get some sun and get a good night’s rest, and your schizophrenia is cured, and you’ll be fine. You’ll be fine tomorrow. Just get a good night’s sleep,” you know, that kind of thing.

And so that was the term mental hygiene back then, or so I’ve been told anyway from this book. But you’re looking at it from a very different angle. Is that right? Do you want to elaborate on that for us, please?

[00:44:18,580]
Yeah, I think it’s more of this—like a check-in. And it’s more of a, I love you—uh—standard of care, kind of just—we talk about it as part of our everyday, like a dental hygiene. And I think that the more we talk about it, the more access we have.

I know it’s also a cultural thing. I know different cultures have more stigmas around talking about mental health or how you should portray yourself, but we do see that arise in suicides around some of those cultures or ethnicities when you don’t have access to community and talking about it.

My goal would be that there are safe places to say, you know, “We’re having a mental health check-in.” And I think we might have talked about this as well—it’s like not just high schoolers or teenagers. It starts from the little kids, having put words to feelings, or checking in for that as well.

A lot of these things appeared in my child at five or six years old. And part of it was related to school. He’s dyslexic, but you would never know because his favorite and best class is English right now, and he’s a proficient reader, but like—we got it quite early. And so, but those—those, for lack of a better word right now—symptoms, or those underlying issues, were there at five or six, right?

So if we’re starting to treat—and maybe “treat” is the wrong word as well—support that mental activity at a young age, then it doesn’t feel so other. Then we know that we’re not alone, that other people have it, versus calling it a mental health issue or crisis when you’re 16.

[00:46:13,540]
Yeah, yeah, that I can definitely get on board with. And I appreciate how sensitive you are to words. Like you had mentioned earlier, you know, that we’re not trying to, quote unquote, fix anything. And I’m guessing that you said that because if you make it be about fixing something, then the implication of that is that there’s something inherently wrong. Is that accurate?

Oh yeah, we could have a whole other conversation about that. And I saw that with my kids. They were like, “Why am I going to another doctor? What’s wrong with me?” And it doesn’t feel good for anybody.

And they’re amazing. These kids are amazing. Most kids are amazing. And they have so many great gifts and talents that, when you see them suffering, you automatically, as a parent or any caregiver, want to jump in and fix it or make a solution. Where actually, sometimes they just want to be listened to or heard, and sometimes it’s just feeling supported. But then when you start to feel like there’s a problem or you need to fix it, it goes the other way.

[00:46:48,190]
Yeah, most definitely. Earlier in the conversation, I love this one word that you had used too—was repair. And forgive my ignorance, I cannot remember what the context was that you had mentioned the word repair. Do you by chance remember?

Yeah, Dr. Becky.

Yes. Can you walk me through that again one more time?

She has a lot of content online. She has a book. And there’s a lot of parenting for younger kids, and this idea that our kids aren’t born bad or they don’t want to be bad—they want to be good, but they don’t always have the tools. And like understanding why that behavior is happening is not like… trying to get to the why of behavior.

But one of the things she talks a lot about is that there’s always repair, and that even when you’re a parent who messes up—and we all are going to mess up, we mess up in life all the time—there’s this opportunity to go back and say, you know, “That wasn’t my best self showing up. I didn’t handle that the right way. I’d like to try it again. Let’s do a do-over.”

That does way more better—or whatever her evidence shows—than whatever actually happened, whatever words were actually said or what went wrong. The fact of going back and saying, “I want to fix this,” and—using that word “fix” again—but the repair. It’s like leaps and bounds what makes the relationship stronger.

[00:48:13,200]
Yeah, I can appreciate that. And when you said the word repair, immediately—I’m sure the author of this book probably has this somewhere in there—but I went to ChatGPT and I was like, “What would be a good acronym for REPAIR? Like, how could we connect the word repair with mental health essentially?”

And so I have it right in front of me. This is what it put up. It said: “The R could be recognize—notice what’s happening in your body and emotions. The E could be express—so put words to the feeling, even imperfect words; it doesn’t have to be so precise that it falls within a specific category. P could be pause—create space before reacting. A would be ask—what do I need right now? Or what is this feeling trying to tell me?” And that goes along with the brain health that you were talking about before, for sure. I’m sure in deep ways you can elaborate that on in just a second. “And then the I is integrate—connect the feeling to the situation or pattern.” And I think that’s deep. “And then the last R is respond—choose a response instead of a reaction.” What’s your reaction to that? Just pulled that off of good old ChatGPT.

Is it a reference back to Dr. Becky, or is that just making it?

No, let me just double check. No, it did not make any reference to her at all.

I love that. Also, I’m very conscious that I’m a fixer, right? Someone comes to me with their problems, and I want to fix it. But really, what I’m working on and learning is asking, “What do you need?” Right? Do you want me to listen to you? Do you need me to fix it? Do you want my opinion? Do you want a solution?

And that’s a skill that I don’t think any of our parents have, and nor do we have this. It’s not like an innate response. And so I work on that because I want people to feel better. I want to have the solution. I want to fix something. And taking that pause that you mentioned, and also the step back to say, “Well, what is it that you need?” That’s something that I’m very conscious of.

[00:50:23,250]
Yeah. And I know that you’re really passionate about access—access to therapy, access to the resources and tools that they need. Can you elaborate a little bit more on what that looks like, and how parents can access the things that are available to them? Because sometimes people just don’t know. They don’t know what’s out there.

I’m passionate about it for a few reasons. One is that, like going back to this umbrella of mental health, just going to a therapist is not always a solution. It’s not always a solution because each one of those things we mentioned has very specific training. And for therapy especially, like an OCD therapist is very different than just anxiety or depression therapists. Most people don’t know that, but also finding and navigating the specialties is really challenging and can be very expensive.

So that’s one area: it’s not just this umbrella—go to a therapist. It’s very specialized.

Second is I’ve lived in both rural and urban areas, and it’s really, really challenging to find access to care in rural areas, especially the specialized care. And then you’re in a small town—everyone knows everyone’s business. That’s really scary to go to a therapist when you know they’re going to get their kids in school with your kid, or you’re going to see them at the grocery store.

[00:51:42,620]
And so I think starting to see more access to online therapy is nice. I myself and my kids don’t like online therapy because it doesn’t feel as personable, but it is an alternative when you don’t have that immediate access to go to somebody. I think cost is—you know—we’re seeing a whole other thing with access to insurance and cost, and so that’s another challenge. And then I can take a few more options on this discussion points. One is that—oh yeah, absolutely—one hour a week, right? One hour a week is just one hour a week. The rest of those hours are yours to do on your own, right? And so that’s—it’s great when you have that access, but even having access is at the tip of the iceberg for a lot of these issues.

[00:52:29,409]
And then I think the last thing I was just going to say is—maybe we’ll start seeing—well, I think we’ll start seeing, you know, what does therapy look like for our kids at earlier ages and older, but also family therapy. And a lot of this is family systems. I wish we had had more of it. I would love to have more of it. It’s hard to coordinate schedules. It’s kind of hard to find time. It’s hard to find money. But I actually think family therapy is probably one of the most beneficial. Would family therapy be where mother, father, parent—whoever it is—is in therapy with their child? Is that what that looks like? But it’s all, really—it’s not even just looking at the child.

[00:53:08,240]
It is like: how does that family dynamic work? What works? What doesn’t? What can we try? What can things be? You know, having a third party listen to how maybe the family dynamic works—who gets heard more, who needs to be heard more. Maybe some different family needs. But I think it’s probably newer, but also less accessible, and maybe we need more of it.
Yeah. Okay. I have this thought in my head that just came in, and it’s about the portrayal of parents in movies, TV, things like that. And oftentimes the teenagers are portrayed as snarky, sarcastic, know-it-alls—smarter than their parents—and their parents are portrayed as oafs. I mean, just idiots and imbeciles. And I’m wondering what you think about—

[00:54:02,399]
The media’s impact on these images that are put out there in the world for kids to look at and for kids to see, and how and whether or not that impacts the trust factor that kids have in their parents. Because I know you had brought up how sometimes you’re concerned about even your own children keeping their feelings bottled up and inside of them. I’m wondering if there’s a connection there between the trust factor of kids and adults, based on what they’ve seen in the media and in movies about how parents are portrayed. Like, do they feel that their parents are like that? Is that the reason why a lot of parents are feeling like their kids don’t talk to them? Or is it just because of, you know, typical teenage behavior?

[00:54:42,120]
I think it’s such a great question. I probably 100% agree that there’s a lot of media portrayals of the surly teen or the grumpy teen. Yeah. I think it doesn’t serve anybody to have those portrayals. But there’s also this realness about teens’ hormones. One second they’re here, one second they’re not. And so, if anything, it’s more—maybe—one more compassion, but also education around, like, really their bodies are going through hormonal changes. It’s not always rational. That doesn’t excuse behavior, but also, like, you’re dealing with definitely irrational behavior sometimes.
I think the other part of it is like that hoodie culture or whatever—like, you know, they’re sulky, or they’re trying to hide away, or they just put their hood on. I think there’s a lot of that in media.

[00:55:34,060]
And some of that’s real. That’s how they act sometimes. It doesn’t excuse behavior. But then how do you get around that, or how do you break free from it? I will say one other area that I’ve seen accessing your child is through movement. Or they say two ways, but one is moving. You’re going through a walk, so you’re like side by side. So you get a little bit more communication, more interaction, when you’re side by side walking with them versus like you’re sitting at a table one-on-one and you’re confronting—or kind of that thing. It’s like an interview.
Yeah.
The other is in the car driving, whether in the backseat or next to you. Both of those are better times to have those conversations.

[00:56:13,850]
Maybe if media portrayed more walks with your kid or more car time with your kid, you might see those interactions more than that confrontation.
Yeah, I agree with you 100%. I’m just kind of flashbacking in my head right now, thinking of drives that I had with my dad a long time ago. We would just, you know, be driving somewhere, and it was late at night. We’d be listening to talk radio and different things, and I would ask him questions and stuff. And I remember one time we were going down the road, and we were listening to one of the talk radio hosts, and he had used the word “feminization.” And I was just a kid, like maybe 12 or something. I might have been 14. I’m not sure.

[00:56:56,110]
But anyway, I had heard the word “feminization” come from this radio host, and he was talking about something—whatever. And I said to my dad, I said, “Does feminization mean making something like girls? Is that what that means?” And he looked at me and he said, “Yeah, that’s exactly what it means.” And I was like, “Oh, okay, cool.”
And I don’t know why I just said that just now, but I flashback to that moment in my head about having these conversations—these car ride conversations with my dad. And it was just—these are moments that still, to this day, as a 30-year-old woman, you know, they still stick with me, and I still talk about them to this day. So yeah, I agree with you. I definitely think that, you know—

[00:57:36,050]
They may not work for every situation, but I do think that they work a lot because I experienced it myself.
So for you, do you ever talk to your kids or to the people who you work with about the importance of self-talk when it comes to mental health?
Yeah, definitely with my kids, although they’re teens and they’ll roll their eyes still at that kind of—oh yeah, you got this, you can do this. I am the biggest believer, and I’ve shared this with a lot of friends. I do the high five myself in the mirror. I do the warrior stands before I have to do a presentation. A lot of journaling around that, partly because I feel like I’ve seen the data that tells me that it works, even though it doesn’t feel natural. It feels awkward.

[00:58:19,990]
But I definitely think I’ve seen it work. Part of it, I think, is being a woman. I’m a single mom, solo founder with a business launching. I don’t have a lot of imposter syndrome, but it’s often women in a workplace—or, you know, the male energy—I definitely feel it. It’s not the way I operate. And so how do I show up to operate in a different context?
So I definitely talk to other female founders about that, and particularly about how to show up with our own energy. And then that self-talk—that like, “You got this.” A lot of the things I say to myself are—and this is my own therapy; I can give my therapist some of this credit—but it’s reframing.

[00:59:04,480]
So, what if it all works out? I mean, I start to worry some things. I have 10,000 issues or 4,000 problems to solve. And instead of saying that, it’s like, “What if it all works out?” And just pausing—that helps that.
And then the other is—and this is where it gets really bold, and maybe facing some of that male energy—yeah, take some of that male energy for yourself. Let’s go. Come on. And I like to say, “Watch me.”
Oh yeah, that’s a good one.
Watch me. Because I’ve already done so much, or I’ve already accomplished so much. There’s so much to do. And I also say, “It’s enough.” Like, I’ve done enough. It’s not that I’m trying to do more.

[00:59:42,680]
But if I feel that there’s blocking or something—something’s in my way—it’s “watch me.”
Yeah, yeah, that’s a good attitude to have. Has any of that rubbed off on your kids, do you think? I mean, I’m sure that they’ve shaken it off and rolled their eyes and done all those things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah—mom, whatever. But I know that I’m smart enough to know that kids on the exterior will say and do things like that, but in the interior, they’re really taking some of this stuff in. I definitely think they have now, as we’re getting older too. I’ve named my business after them, so they see that. They’ve had a lot of opportunities themselves recently because of my own relationships that I’ve developed.

[01:00:20,250]
And they’re just being curious, putting myself in the room, talking to people, showing up, not asking for anything in return. My ATL Leo has this amazing internship at the most amazing place because of a relationship that I had. And I think they noticed that—how that worked. That relationships matter. How you treat people matters. How you show up in generosity. And so they definitely know that, and they’re starting to see that. And I just hope that more role modeling does play out.
But I’m also raising boys. I don’t know if this conversation would be different if I was raising girls with girl energy, showing that their mom is doing this. Boys have a lot of different—have other role models in their life.

[01:01:01,399]
Yeah, that’s a really good point. I think that might have to be the next podcast that we do, because we could talk about that for a while.
So in terms of boys—hmm—there was an important question that I was going to ask you, and I completely forgot what it was because somebody drove by my apartment and they beeped their horn. Completely erased that question from my mind, but that’s okay. I have a backup one.
So the backup question is: do you think that sometimes teenagers—and teen mental health—is overlooked because of maybe like an overemphasis on the younger kids or an overemphasis on adults?

[01:01:54,980]
Hmm. Good question. I would say teen mental health—when you say that word—it gets a lot of compassion and a lot of, “Oh yeah, it’s a heartache,” or “We need it.” A lot of awareness around it. I think it’s overlooked in access to care or that support system. I think there’s this huge awareness—especially with gun control in schools, especially with suicide rates, especially with all the things that they see. There’s this huge “aha,” or when I say I support teen mental health organizations. But it doesn’t match the access to care with actually happening for service. It feels kind of shallow.

[01:02:41,600]
Yeah, yeah, I can see that for sure, and you’re right. I don’t know what the suicide rate is for teenagers, but I know that almost—I’m not going to say every teenager—but a big, big portion of them all have some sort of thing that they’re going through mentally.
And a parent—you know, let me ask you this. A parent had expressed her concerns to me about her son not having resilience. Mm-hmm. And for previous generations—I think for millennials, Gen Xers, boomers—all of us have some level of resilience, that we can handle difficult situations without crumbling. But a lot of parents are expressing concerns that that’s not the case with their teens. That something happens, and all of a sudden they just—they fall like a house of cards. What are your thoughts on that?

[01:03:29,960]
Hmm. I think about that word resilience and grit a lot. Partly as someone who paid my way through school, had to do it all myself, self-starter, didn’t have that support. And I often say that I don’t want my kids to have to work as hard as I did, but I don’t want them handed things either. So I’m very conscious of that.
But given today’s day and age, you have, as a parent, to work really hard at that resilience and not make things so easy for your kids. And I’m not always—I’m guilty of it as well—but I’m very conscious of it because of my background. I’ve seen my older son—he just became a pilot. He just got his pilot’s license. I saw him have some failures with it. He has to pay half of it.

[01:04:21,740]
I think having to make things somehow hard for them is important, because if we don’t, they don’t have their resilience. But they definitely don’t have what I had, and they definitely don’t have what other generations had. But I can see worse. And so I think you have to be intentional about expectations, chores, things like that. Because otherwise, yeah, it’s too easy. And then that resilience falls, because they’ve not been tested, right? That’s like a muscle that has to be tested. Is your grit tested? Is your resilience tested? If it’s not tested, then you can’t expect them to have it if they’ve never been tested.

[01:05:01,950]
Yeah, yeah, definitely. If they’re living in a bubble of some sort and they haven’t been tested, then they’re never going to develop that grit or that resilience because they’ve never experienced adversity before. And you have to be able to experience some level of adversity if you want to grow and stretch your muscles and all of that kind of stuff. So I agree with you 110%.

[01:05:01,950]
So I know that you’re a big fan of community—supportive communities. What does that look like in practice? You know, not just like we were talking about just a second ago—the shallow online engagement. “I support teen mental health.” You know, it reminds me of the people that change their profile photos on Facebook to represent some cause that they support. To me, that is just absolutely ridiculous. And the reason why I say that—I’m just going to share this for a second—I have a podcast coming up with another lady. She’s wonderful. And you guys, I probably would hit it off because you’re both wonderful to me. But her experience—she went through something really, really traumatic. And I won’t share what that is because I’ll leave that for her to do.

[01:05:46,310]
But she went through something really traumatic, and there was also a situation that occurred in the United States that everybody knew about. I mean, if you didn’t know about it, you would have had to live under a rock. So this pretty crazy situation occurred in the U.S., and she was going through her own mental health crisis at that time. And then she saw people change their Facebook profile pictures to say “I support this” or “I stand with this”—you know, all the same things that people put out there. But yet, here was this person who had supposedly real friends, and those people did not reach out to her, even though they knew what she was going through. But yet they changed their profile photos for this cause that involved people that they didn’t know.

[01:06:36,590]
And when she told me that, that was pretty heartbreaking. So, you know, in terms of community, what does that really look like? Not just online engagement, but real day-to-day interactions.
I feel for her so much in that, because I’ve probably seen that happen many other times in other ways. I think—for me—life can be kind of lonely, right? I’m a single mom. I’m doing a business by myself. I’m alone a lot. And loneliness—we’re all lonely in different parts of our life. It can show up in different ways. And so we have to find ways so we’re not lonely.

[01:07:18,790]
The other part of that is community—intentional community. And I mean it by that a few different ways. Who can you reach out to when things aren’t good? You don’t need a thousand people, but what your small group is—who do you go to? Who do you feel safe with?
I think part of it—you can’t just wake up one morning and say, “That’s my community.” It’s cultivated. It’s showing up. It’s wherever you’re volunteering. It’s your place of faith. It’s your school groups. But you have to make it intentional. You have to show up somewhere so that you feel like you belong and that you have a group of people. Maybe you don’t feel like it’s serving you right then, but it comes to you later in life. But you have to have a place where you feel like you belong.

[01:07:51,720]
And it can be hard if you move around a lot. It can be hard if you work a lot. But I firmly believe that you have to find some place like that.
The second part of that, for me, is actually just the vulnerability in showing up. That means, for me, being on podcasts, talking about experiences, talking about my kids, so that other people feel safe talking about themselves. And so, for me, when I talk about community, it’s a broader “we” of “we’re in this together.” You shouldn’t have to feel alone. And the more people talk about their stories or talk about their vulnerabilities, it makes it more acceptable and more open for other people too. And I think then that reduces that loneliness factor and brings people in.

[01:08:34,560]
The number of times that people tell me their own stories about their kids’ mental health struggles, and then they feel this relief just saying it out loud. They didn’t fix anything. You didn’t solve anything. The kid’s still the same. There’s still issues. But there’s almost a sigh of relief because they were able to express it, because it feels really alone. Or you can feel judged. Or you can feel less than, or that you’re not parenting correctly. Like, there’s so much self-judgment that comes with it that, if we’re able to remove that, it just, I feel like, builds up a collective. And that’s what I would like to see more of.
Yeah, most definitely. You’ve used the word “bucket” a couple of times.

[01:09:09,189]
And when you said that they feel better expressing it, it’s almost like just tipping that bucket over and emptying it out and then coming back and starting fresh again. You know, it’s kind of a nice little metaphor there.
So as we wind down, I’ve got a couple of little questions for you that just kind of tie everything together that you talked about today. So the first question is: if you could just gently challenge one belief that you find to be pretty common among parents in the realm of teen health, what would it be? So if you could just challenge one belief that parents have about teen health, what would that belief be?
So many. I think I would go back to that word “fixing,” like, you know, stopping the fixing: “My kid—something’s wrong with my kid.”

[01:09:54,610]
I would love to challenge that our kids are amazing—just reframing how we support them.
Yeah, yeah. And does that connect to what you have done? So, like, what’s one small change that you’ve personally made that made a big difference in your own life and in the lives of your two children?
Boom. A lot of differences. I think it’s really—except like—really celebrating who they are. You know, they’re not me. I was this go-getter academic, did what was expected of me. My kids are brilliant and their own people, and I remove those expectations, and then they can thrive in who they are. I still have expectations for them of how they show up in society, how they treat other people, but who they want to be and how they demonstrate that—

[01:10:40,290]
—I want them to have that freedom to do that.
Yeah, I appreciate that. Now, I know you have your own product line, and I want to give you a chance to talk about that and share some details. When it comes to teenagers, there’s a lot of products out there that are designed around teenagers—the first one being social media, designed around teenagers to keep them engaged online and connected in that realm, in that world, for as long as possible. But I haven’t found there to be too many products designed for teenagers. Around them, yes, but for them, not so much. So, you know, first, how do you think that teenagers will respond if and when they realize that there are some products and services and conversations and things like that that are going to be designed for them, or that are designed for them, not just around them?

[01:11:31,640]
Thank you. I think it’s super hard in general because teens don’t want to be told what to take or do. And so they might start to realize that it’s accessible and they have some decision-making in it. So part of that is a conversation of like: how do you feel? What do you need? And having them take some ownership of that. I do know that they don’t want something that’s too kiddy. They don’t want it to feel so juvenile, but they also know they’re not adults and they don’t want something that’s made for an adult. So finding the sweet spot that is available to them, but not forced on them, is like kind of the golden ticket to making teen products. They are different. They all have different needs.

[01:12:12,010]
And they are very much drawn to the shiny object, right? The next new thing—then, you know, social media tells them what they should be liking. And so being relevant in that space, while letting them have some decision-making power, is very important. We’ve seen that in the beauty space, right? Sephora and all these other places—where teens are seeing what they want in the beauty space—but it’s driven a lot by social media.
Yeah, most definitely. And how do your products help teenagers?
Yeah, so I developed a line of gummy vitamin supplements because I wanted something for my own kids, and one that they wanted to take and tasted good. So one is about taste and texture. They don’t taste like other gummies. They taste like something you want to eat, right?

[01:12:58,960]
So one of that: they come in a pouch, so they’re just sitting on the counter. They look aesthetically pleasing, and they’re accessible—meaning kids will want to go take them, not just look medicinal. And then they’re functional. It’s not just a multivitamin; this is gonna make you feel better. They’re very function-based, so it’s ones for sleep, stress, energy—energy to counter all the—and we didn’t even get to energy drinks. Energy—yeah, energy drinks. So caffeine-free energy; one for eyes and screen time, so protecting your eyes; and then the last one for immunity, just so you don’t get sick with the flu. And then we could—I could add on a billion other ones from that, but that’s where I started.

[01:13:39,220]
So we just launched in 50 Whole Foods stores in the last few months, and we’re on Amazon. But it’s really—Whole Foods took this recognition to see that there is a missing product line for teens. It talks to teens. Mine happened to be safe for all ages, but I wanted something accessible that my kids would take.
Yeah. Where can we find those products?
Yeah, so 50 Whole Foods stores—it depends where you’re living in the U.S.—Amazon, and then our own website. You can learn more about my background and the vitamins, but also who we support. The website is shop.com.samandleo.com. So it’s S-H-O-P-S-A-M-A-N-D-L-E-O dot com. So you can find out more there, and also social media. We are on all the platforms, because that’s where people find us.

[01:14:27,490]
Same—Shop Sam and Leo—on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. But really, it’s this mission to offer products for families and have those tools for conversations: “How are you feeling? What do you need? Maybe you’ve had too much screen time,” and go from there.
Yeah, appreciate that. Thank you so much. And could you maybe talk to us just a little bit more about the clinical backing of these products so that parents, if they did want to try it, they’re not—thank you—putting their hand in some kind of random Halloween bucket and pulling out, you know, something.
I appreciate that question. So, you know, as we mentioned, this wasn’t my background. I came into it, I did a lot of research, but going from no stores to Whole Foods has been quite the process.

[01:15:12,510]
So Whole Foods, which you may or may not know, has very strict compliance guidelines around supplements. So I had to have and provide clinical studies on every single ingredient done in age groups—so four and older—for these products. So each ingredient has been tested to demonstrate safety and efficacy in young kids and teens. But really, um, so you know that it’s safe—we test every batch for heavy metals, toxicity, and mold. So every batch is tested. But really—oh, and they’re vegan, gluten-free, and allergy-free, so they’re free of the allergens as well. And we recently discovered—they weren’t made for this—but discovered they don’t stick to your teeth. So now dentists are recommending them because they don’t cause cavities.

[01:15:54,310]
They do have a little bit of sugar in them and pear juice to make them taste good, but they’re not sticky. So it’s been a really interesting experience for me because it’s what I wanted to give my own kids. But to share it with other parents, to know that they’re safe and effective, is really important.
Yeah, congratulations on that. That’s really exciting. So one thing I know that teenagers will probably relate to—not that a teenager listens to this show, but—I was talking to a teenager the other day and I asked him. I was helping him because I tutor kids all the time with my business, Turning the Tide Tutoring. And I was working with this one individual who’s taking a business class.

[01:16:29,090]
And I was talking to him about the different generational behaviors when it comes to marketing products and buying products—consuming, all that kind of stuff. And he told me—I asked him the question. I said, “What do Gen Zers do?” Because he’s a Gen Zer. I said, “What do Gen Zers do when they find a really good product that they like?” Because I know, as a millennial, once a millennial finds a good product that they like, they will tell the whole world about that product. And that’s, in fact, one of the most common ways that millennials vet products: through consumer reviews and through word of mouth, and hearing about it from people who they trust.

[01:17:09,530]
Millennials are not going to just trust a brand just because, you know, it’s a brand name or whatever. They actually want to hear it from people who they know, who tried it and who’ve liked it—that’s what they value a lot. In contrast to Gen Z, what this young man told me, he said: if a Gen Zer finds a product that they like, they will not tell anybody about it. I said, “Oh, why is that?” And he said, “Because they don’t want anybody to know about it. They want to be the only ones that have it.” So beware, parents.
Yes, I’ve seen that for sure. So funny. So I just have one more question for you before we head out today.

[01:17:41,850]
It’s a question that I ask all of my guests—although, my fault, I did forget to ask the last guest this question. We were going for close to an hour and a half; I just completely forgot. But anyway, so the question is—and you can interpret the question however you wish, okay? It’s totally, totally, and completely open-ended. And so the question is: what do you feel is the most important education a child could ever receive?
Hmm. And take your time. There’s no rush. I’ve heard you ask this to other people too, so I’m thinking of myself. Part of this is what I wish I received, and then part of what I want for more kids.

[01:18:26,450]
It’s not about academics and who you know, but about what your achievement—it’s really about kindness and compassion and showing up in the world. So I wish there was more structured lessons. I don’t know how to infuse it—just being a good person in this world—and how I think that could just make a world of difference for everyone.
Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you. Well, I would love to formally invite you to come back on The Gentle Year. And we just—I’m so excited. This was a great conversation. It was very informative for all of us. So thank you, Dara, for being here today. And we just appreciate you and wish you the absolute best.
Thank you so much for having me. I can’t wait to keep having this conversation.
Yeah, absolutely. We’ll talk again soon.
Sounds good.