Black Patriots and Primary Sources — What Textbooks Left Out | Ted Lamb

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Black history is often taught as a single storyline—centered on slavery—while countless Black contributions to early American life are left out of standard textbooks. In this episode of The Gentle Year, historian and public school teacher Ted Lamb returns to share a primary-source approach to “omitted Black history” and the lesser-known Black patriots, leaders, and thinkers who shaped the nation.

You’ll hear the stories of figures like Wentworth Cheswell (sometimes called the “Black Paul Revere”), Peter Salem (a hero of Bunker Hill), and Henry Highland Garnett, along with a wider conversation about why curriculum often narrows history into a single narrative. Ted explains why he trusts primary sources over textbooks, how standardized testing can drive what gets taught, and why integrating these stories into everyday American history matters for kids’ identity, critical thinking, and perspective.

This is a parent-facing conversation about how to teach history without propaganda—by asking better questions, reading original documents, and learning together at home.

Connect with Ted: History Moments with Ted (Facebook)
Primary source starting point: Yale Law School’s Avalon Project (documents and historical sources)

Keywords: omitted Black history, Black patriots, primary sources, American Revolution, Wentworth Cheswell, Peter Salem, Henry Highland Garnett, Black History Month, history education, teaching kids history, curriculum and standards, critical thinking, parenting and education

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Transcript

[ 00:00:01,680 ]Welcome back to The Gentle Year, everybody. I am so excited to have Ted Lamb back on as a guest of the show. First of all, Ted, you are the very first person who has come on this show twice. So we are really excited to have you. And I've got some other great people lined up for all the listeners. But Ted is a special one because he is an actual historian. So Ted, would you mind sharing a little bit about your background and your professional credentials before we go into today's topic, which is omitted Black history? Okay. And thank you for having me back on the show again. Um, I don't take that lightly of the high. Um, honor or compliment that you just gave either. So, Yes, my name is Ted Lamb.

[ 00:00:49,730 ]And I am a public school teacher. This is going on depending upon which state you are. Know that it's been 25 years, and 28 years you know—hey, whatever that is. Um, I teach in an alternative school students with behavioral problems. I teach American history, world history, economics, and personal finance, as well as American government. My undergraduate was a bachelor's of social studies education for secondary, so about sixth grade to 12th. And then I went and got my master's in special education. Which is a 12. Oh, I'm sorry, a K through 12. Uh Master's certification component. As well, Uhm, I thought I have taught. In Europe, as well as Asia. Right after college, we went to... South Korea and we taught English as a second language.

[ 00:01:50,440 ]Conversational English is really what that was about. And then from there, we came back home. And got started on my career. I've also served as a school board member, here in my hometown. I was a two-term. Uh, Liked it twice. And then after that, I kind of took the advice of George Washington, General Washington. When he came up with that, eh, maybe two terms is... Raising here. I can understand. The rationale for it. I... Divya. We're losing you a little bit, Ted. Not in primary sources. I'm not a real... We lost you there for a second. It keeps kind of going in and out, but go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry. No, that's okay. So I love primary sources. I'm not a real big fan of secondary sources like textbooks.

[ 00:02:48,190 ]I have found error upon error. Upon error. Or, of course, the authors or the printing company has their own view or lens. That they tried to come across. As well. So I do. Try to stay away from that. I am also a certified principled approach. A teacher. Which... is it was an extensive three-year program. I thought I was getting a PhD. After. Going through this, but. It's what it is and the long and short of it is I basically learn how to teach based upon how we actually educated in our nation. From about 1620. up to the 1930s. So that's a little bit about. Uh, That, I also have history moments with Ted. which is on Facebook. And it's also an LLC now, LLC. Now. which provides curriculum.

[ 00:03:51,770 ]It also provides events. over history topics that most people would not even No existed. So. Um, That's a little bit about me and that was probably a little long winded. And so I apologize. No, there's no apologies necessary. Listen, everything I was telling another guest, this who came on the show this past week. And I truly believe that whatever people say is the most perfect thing that they could have said in the moment. So and there's no exceptions to that. So it is all good. OK, so you had mentioned that you were all about primary sources and that a lot of people have learned history through schools and through textbooks and secondary resources, but that has left out a lot of these key names of individuals that have had a huge impact on our history as a nation, but we don't ever know about them.

[ 00:04:43,010 ]We don't read about them. We don't learn about them. And so you sent me for the listeners for context. Ted sent me a list of some individuals who he felt were noteworthy and particularly important to this discussion. So we'll start with the very first one, Ted. I think it was Wentworth Cheswell. What can you tell us about him and who he was? Yeah. So and the individuals that I chose and I could have given you. Oh gosh, so many. But I chose just a few. To drive home the concept that, if you listen, till today, in American history classes or even talk with your children, who attend public school and in some private schools as well, you get a one-sided approach to history that... Black people, Black Americans.

[ 00:05:40,050 ]Only had one story. You know, and that was slavery. These individuals that I'm showing you, actually, they go beyond this in many ways. And the actual record, the official record through primary sources, actually shows that when we continue to teach and show. Only that storyline. That everyone. You know, was black or demeaned or this, that, or whatever. From 1600s through the 1800s. It's wrong. It's wrong history. Did horrible things happen? Absolutely, it happened. Was there things that needed to be corrected? Yes. But, you know, if you read the primary sources and study the individuals. You can see that that was not what we were about. Initially, and that's— In many ways, it's what we tried to put in place— but sometimes things did not work out as it should have.

[ 00:06:39,650 ]Yes, absolutely. So going back to some of these noteworthy individuals, I appreciate the preface there that slavery is not the only history. That individuals here in America or even around the world have, if they're a person of color, and I think that this invites a great reframe. of the entirety of the story without re-without erasing history, we're not i don't think anybody is trying to erase history, especially not on this podcast. So I think, but I do think that having that nice reframe of the story gives us a more detailed and accurate picture of what happened. And so I'm curious to know a little bit about some of these individuals. We'll go back to Wentworth Cheswell. What do you know about him in the context of U. S. history?

[ 00:07:30,880 ]Yes, so actually, Wentworth Cheswell is an amazing individual. He, um... He was known as the black. Paul Revere. Meaning, that here was an individual that did more midnight rides than Paul Revere ever did. He was also part of his colony's committee of correspondents. Which basically what these were, these were the committees. That would ride and get. the news. to each of the colonies. So that everyone would know what's going on. If they were caught under British law, they would have been considered treasonous and they would have been executed. For these things. What also makes him amazing is this, and this is providing the context of what I'm talking about. With regards to the frames. If I was to ask someone, and I don't mean to demean anyone when I ask this question.

[ 00:08:33,909 ]It's not a trick question. Um, If I was to ask someone, when was the first... black person ever elected to office. Most people would probably think the 1960s. If some people, um, had a historical reference, they would probably say something like, 'Oh, after the Civil War.' But here's the problem with that. That would be wrong. Because Wentworth Cheswell was being elected. In office. Even before they were a United States. He was being unflanked. Into local offices. Um, over a 40-year period that covered the colony status. Into early America over and over and over. In different offices throughout that illustrious career. Wow, that is fascinating. Now... Do you think that Black achievements like that are often taught as exceptions rather than continuations of a long heritage of intellectual and cultural contributions?

[ 00:09:40,630 ]And if so, why? It should be taught as a continual. Contributions because the thing about it is there's no Hey. I say that to say this. There's no such thing as Black History. There is no such thing as Black History Month, or at least there shouldn't be. But I understand why there is. Because it's American history. If we would actually learn these things, such as Wentworth Chesswell, and others, we wouldn't need to have two separate histories. If you will, because it's all one story and it's an amazing story. It should be. Part of the continual. The problem is even the historians, even the history teachers, don't know who this gentleman is. But we should. He-He-Think about it. With what he did. He would be, he. should be considered as one of the founding fathers.

[ 00:10:42,980 ]He actually ran with some of the other individuals too. He knew Paul Revere. He knew, I think, he also knew Joseph Warren. And so there were all of these things that were together. There. But again, because of the dialogue of today. We. We don't, we don't. have a clue. who or what he was. And two, the dialogue that we want to continue to focus on today. pushes that real history out. Wow. That's fascinating. So it seems to me that slavery has become the default entry point for black history. in schools. And that's pretty significant because it seems to me that there is a much broader global story. Than what we're actually taught. In schools. So why do you think that slavery is the default entry point, if you think that at all?

[ 00:11:51,240 ]I do think, yes, I do think slavery is the default because here's why. And one time it wasn't always this way. But. I have to go back to President Woodrow Wilson. Before he was a president. He was a historian. With one of the Ivy League schools. He also wrote textbooks. American History Textbooks because... a historian. What he did. He deliberately started taking these stories out. And when he did that, then textbooks... Just followed that lead. I mean, after all, you know, a well-established. Um, President? You know, of the era and so forth. Um, You know, his textbooks and everything was before he was president. But again, you know how we hold people up, right? And so it just went from there over and over. And over. Until we've just forgotten.

[ 00:12:56,940 ]You know, these things. And let me give you one example of something. And this is really. Just to get your audience to kind of think. For a minute. Right. I agree. I'm one of the, as a historian. I believe that men and women long for freedom. I think they want those inalienable rights that are guaranteed. In our Declaration of Independence, no doubt about it. No doubt about it. Um, And with saying that. With saying that, Phyllis Whitley. Who was one of our first, let's consider her an American poet. George Washington absolutely loved her. And she wrote even a poem. Of actually. She was kidnapped in Africa and brought. Two. Massachusetts. And. Um, And at that time, Massachusetts did have slavery, but it was more house servants and so forth.

[ 00:13:58,380 ]And she actually was grateful that she was kidnapped and taken. Now, that's a primary source. So now you have to ask yourself a question, right? And I hear this today, I got into this discussion with other history teachers. They would say, 'Oh, well, you have to look at the person's bias. By a seed of who's writing these primary sources. No, you don't. All right. You just got to read what they were talking about in the context. So if I was taking Phyllis Whitney's... Thoughts? Of how she felt. About that she was grateful. To have been brought. Here. Um, you know, it leads to that there's more to the story. Than what we are thinking that it is today. How can you be a slave? Which is what she was.

[ 00:14:51,979 ]Exclaiming that she's glad that she was brought here. In order to become a Christian. Doesn't add up, right? And I'm not saying that. I or anyone else knows the answers to that. But I think those are questions that are worthwhile looking into. Versus what we have today. Which is causing so much division and rift and just dividing us as a people. Yeah, most definitely. Those are definitely not topics that are touched on at school. That is for sure. Well, let's go into another individual who you listed on this text message that you sent me, Peter Salem. What was significant about this individual? Ah, he is the hero of Bunker Hill. Um, Peter Salem actually. And again, this goes right into our discussion here about this aspect of slavery.

[ 00:15:47,770 ]He was actually a slave at the time. His owner, um, was serving in the Continental Army. At that time, it was just basically the Massachusetts militia. You know. Um, well, and in part, well, you could see it as the Continental Army, as well. And so. What he did was he is given credit for actually killing the British commander that was attacking Bunker Hill, which actually should be Breed's Hill. That's a misnomer. At the time. But he took a shot and killed the commanding British officer, which then allowed for the Americans or the colonists to be able to escape. He was given credit for saving thousands of lives, even the Massachusetts. Uh, government, actually, um, recognized him. George Washington recognized him. But you don't necessarily hear much about him.

[ 00:16:55,570 ]But every single one of you that's listening can actually, if you would, go to the painting of the famous painting of the Battle of Barkle Hill. We all get it in our head. It's the same one, right? And if you look over in the right-hand corner, you see him. Right after this. His arm. His owner. went ahead and freed him. Because. Then there was some stipulation talking about Um, you know, to do blacks. Do they get to serve in the Continental Army? There was this whole thing that was starting, and it said, 'If you are a free block, you get to serve.' So guess what? His owner and other owners said, 'You know what? We're fighting for the same cause, for the same reasons.' And yeah. You should be free.

[ 00:17:44,120 ]And they did. Again. That goes against this dialogue that we have. That. Slave owners were these horrible people that all they ever wanted to do was hold people in. Um. Slavery, when actually, the 13 colonies was actually trying to establish, to get rid of. Slavery. But that's another topic. But it all plays into, you know, this as well. But yes, Peter Salem is considered, should be considered, even more, one of our heroes. Of all time. And you know, a painting is a primary source. So there we go again, right? Absolutely. And it goes to show you that if he was in the painting, that means other people witnessed these things and they are giving testament and bearing witness to these accomplishments and the bravery and the heroism of these individuals.

[ 00:18:40,630 ]On a slightly on a similar note, my mom and I, we occasionally go to Monticello and, because we're near that area, and we had the best experience the last time. That we went a couple of years ago, and we learned a lot about how the slaves were treated on Thomas Jefferson's property. And one of the things that I found pretty disheartening was... that there was a female slave, and I don't think it was the, I think it's Sally Hemings or whatever her name is. Yes. But I don't think it was her. It was a different individual. And it could have been Sally, but regardless, there was a female slave. And Martha Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson's wife. Instead of teaching this woman how to read, because the woman, the female slaves, their primary chore was cooking.

[ 00:19:34,610 ]And preparing the meals. At least that's what they told us. So Martha would come down to the slave quarters and read the recipe to this woman. She would not teach her how to read the recipe. And we all could figure it wasn't, you know, that far of a jump to figure out why they didn't want to teach them how to read. But it was an incredibly disheartening experience to learn that, that a lot of these individuals, these slaves, were so... incredibly smart. Because think of how many recipes this woman would have had to memorize— she would have had to know everything by heart, every single thing, every ingredient, every preparation, every step, every single thing. So these people were incredibly smart, but the one thing that was holding them back was the ability to read.

[ 00:20:27,840 ]So what is your response to that? And do you have any other historical perspectives or individuals that maybe support that, that it might not have been all bad, like in terms of abuse? Maybe people weren't being abused, but they were being held back in other ways, especially in terms of education. Yeah, so... You know, now... And that's it. horrific story. You know, that you had heard. I wish I knew more about it so that I could actually claim it. Because again, here's a perfect example. Of possibly We're going to elaborate this to the general public to reinforce. What we've already got in play here. We want to keep reinforcing that. Now, I remember when I went to Monticello a few years back. Um, you know, it was also mentioned that Jefferson actually paid.

[ 00:21:25,720 ]Yeah. paid hourly wages for some of the slaves that were there that happened to be. Would have been part of the extended family, not because of what we think of Sally Hemings. But because. It would have been part of an extended family by marriage. Kind of a thing. So it goes back to Martha. Right? So. Couldn't Martha have done those things? I have no reason to deny or think ill of the person that explained that to you, but we also don't know what was going on in Martha's head. We don't know, you know. If her and that individual had some kind of beef. In the colonies, were slaves educated? Yes. Um, were many not? Yes. Let me give an example of one. I'd. And here's another one. That should be a household name.

[ 00:22:21,300 ]Um, his name was uh James? Amistad. Fiat. And he changed his last name. It was James Armistod, but then he added. Fiat or As we know, Lafayette. But law means... Oh, one, right? The Fiat. And he, and he said, 'I'm not. The Fiat. So I'm Fiat, you know. But um, Interesting enough, here in the Hampton Roads area of Virginia, um, his uh, owners. decided to go ahead and educate him. With their children. Fiat actually learned French. Of all the languages you could have learned, Greek, Latin. Um, any of this stuff, right? Which is very common. Um, learned French. As well. Then, as time goes on, Fiat, guess what he gets to become? A double spot. The British thought that, you know, he was so good and intelligent.

[ 00:23:31,050 ]Um, they wanted him to spy against the Americans. Uh, for them, the Marquis de Lafayette. Took an interest in him. I'm like, wow, you. There's something about you. Kind of a thing. And he was like, 'Yeah, there is, isn't there?' Kind of a thing. And so he then became a spy for us. And what most people don't know. is that it was him. That was able to get information to Lafayette. About where the British were going. To your town. To be able to bring the whole game to an end. Most people don't even know who this gentleman is. And yet you can make the argument about Providence. I mean, again, he was Caught. French. For crying out loud. You just don't. You know. Providentially, you just don't get any better than that.

[ 00:24:25,960 ]So. Um, So, yeah, so there was both sides to it. There were many that were not educated. There were many that were educated. I think it came down to that personal. Um issue and preference you know at that time. But after. In the 1830s. You know, after we had Nate. Nat Turner's Rebellion. Virginia was looking at actually ending the thing. Because it wasn't economically feasible. That rebellion actually, um, pushed everyone over the edge. And that's when it was like, you can't educate, you can't teach to read, you can't teach to write. Because Nat Turner was educated. You know, an educated minister. We also have to start looking at these laws too as things started to develop. Um, You know, people will say, well, I didn't find. Fathers, if they believed in freedom.

[ 00:25:24,960 ]For all men. You know, and it was an inalienable right. Why didn't they give the freedom to their slaves? Because British law said you couldn't. That's just what it was. They also made it very clear. That as the colonies started to develop in their own governments and so forth, made it clear that. A slave could earn their freedom if they did something. Uh meritists, you know. So there had to be a reason why they were given that freedom. And so. We see that too. So. Again, There's more to the story. Than there is. Than what we want to talk about or. Or say that's for real today. Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate the specificities there. And I didn't know that about British law. That was interesting.

[ 00:26:17,560 ]And I would definitely have to check that out and look up some of these primary resources myself just to learn more about that time. Here's something about that too. Give me an example. If you go to Thomas Jefferson's autobiography. Now, understand autobiographies at that time, biographies look very different, than anything of what we got today. But Thomas Jefferson opens up with it. And he says that, you know, when he, his first term in the General Assembly. He specifically put up a bill to Um, To end the stuff. He wanted slavery gone. But we don't talk about that. And he said that the General Assembly would not even take it up for a discussion. Thomas Jefferson turns around and he actually gives legal services, par, par bono to runaway slaves.

[ 00:27:20,820 ]But this is not what the dialogue is today of Thomas Jefferson. We tend to want to demonize him. The Thomas Jefferson who wrote All Men Are Created Equal and the Declaration of Independence. Versus the Thomas Jefferson that came back from being an emissary uh to France for us um during the American Revolution. Was different. And what I mean by that is he still held on to that all men were created equal. But the reality of things too. How do we make this work? You had slave revolts that were down in Haiti. And that were. Brutal and bloody, and, you know, that terrified a lot of things up in here. And so you have those questions of how do we do that? But again, we don't discuss or talk about that.

[ 00:28:14,800 ]Um, in history today. We just want to keep it a certain way. Yeah, it does seem like that, doesn't it? Do you think that Black History, especially Black History Month, do you think that Black History Month is sort of a container? That allows the rest of the year to sort of go unchanged? Because I think of like Valentine's Day, it's coming up, or we have other holidays. And it's almost like some of these holidays or special weeks or special months are things that are meant to keep something contained. A very specific time frame, and then once that time frame is over, it's business as usual, and it all goes back to being the same. So I'm wondering if you feel that Black History Month is sort of just a container that allows people to kind of focus on it for a little while and then...

[ 00:29:10,070 ]People feel satisfied in that respect, then they just they don't pay attention to anything else because, like, they feel that they've they've got their day, and they've got their week. And then, everything else— the truth of the matter— can just stay ignored. Yeah, I'm glad you asked that question because it's significant. And I think, in some ways, it does so much damage. Because, uh, one of the things I did on History Moments with Ted, about four or five years ago, I started actually— I didn't call it Black History Month. I called it Black Patriot Month. And I brought out some of these names of individuals and so forth. Um, when Black History Month was started, back in the early 1900s, it was started for one purpose and one purpose only.

[ 00:29:57,840 ]And that was to bring back—peace, stories. You know, these real accounts that had been taken out of the textbooks. So I get that and I can understand that. Now, what has it become today? Unfortunately, it has come down to, for Black History Month, you might have eight or ten individuals. That's disgust. But if you look at the names, it's usually those of the 20th century. Aside from throwing Frederick Douglass and maybe a Harriet Tubman, right? But then you got everything else from Dr. Martin Luther King. Malcolm X. Oprah Winfrey. And I am not saying anything against those individuals. But what I'm saying is that it has now Even when I talked about the agenda. Or the skewing. of details has now even taken over that as well. And so.

[ 00:30:54,590 ]um and And you've also got to take in things like SOLs. In Virginia, standards of learning. You know? Richmond. controls. The curriculum, even though they say it's not a curriculum. but they control it because it's on the test. And so. Um. Yeah, I think it does more harm when we say, OK, here is Black History Month. We'll cover it then. We're not going to emphasize much of it anymore. Because we have the SOLs and so much other. to carry when I just think. that if you're covering the American Revolution, Wentworth Cheswell. Peter Salem. Should be included in there with Thomas Jefferson, George Washington. Should be considered in there with... Count Pulaski. And, uh, Marquis de Lafayette, because it's all part of our history. Not separate history.

[ 00:31:51,460 ]Not hyphenated history, but a part of our history. Yeah, definitely. It seems that, and I'm not against any particular thing. If somebody wants to have a month, a week, a day. It's all fine with me. I just go with the flow. But... I do think it's interesting that there is a Black History Month because it seems that schools in particular use the fact that there is a Black History Month. So that black history, the kind of history that you're teaching, doesn't get integrated into the curriculum. It doesn't get integrated into the way that we think and the stories and narratives that we're told on a deep or consistent level. It's just— here's this little blip on the radar. Here's a couple little... token trivia questions that we can have on the announcements about black history.

[ 00:32:39,370 ]And then, oh, voila, we've covered black history. We're good now. We're quote unquote safe from, you know, any kind of political backlash. Right. Yeah, and it is. And again, Um, And that's another topic. But when you just look at, and it doesn't matter what state mandated test it is, right? In Virginia, we call it SOL. That drives a lot of the curriculum. And if it's not on the test, it's not going to get taught. And that is so. Wrong. And it does such I'll go so far as to say] an injustice for our students. Because we don't teach them how to critically think. And they miss so much out on a rich, vibrant history that we have that we call the United States. Yeah, I agree with you 100%.

[ 00:33:33,320 ]There was a lady who I talked to. She actually was a guest on this podcast. Her name is Shara Ruffin. And for those of you guys listening to the show, if you go back to the earliest podcast that I have, like it's like episode three. Something like that. We're season two or season three now, guys. So we're past season one. But there's a woman there named Shara Ruffin, who is African American. She's black. And I had her on the show. show because I talk to her every day. I talk on the phone almost every day for like an hour or two hours straight on the phone because we love talking to each other. And she was just telling me about her personal experience one day where she went to, I don't know if it was a class or a seminar, but it was something, and she had a black...

[ 00:34:13,600 ]Teacher and the teacher asked her, 'Where are you from and so she goes. Oh, I'm just from around here, you know. I was born and raised in such and such city, whatever. And the teacher goes, 'No, like, who are you? Where are you from? In other words, where do you come from? Do you know your roots?' She had no idea. And so I just think it was a fantastic story that she told me about how she really didn't know her own history and therefore she didn't know who she was. Was. And she just had to go down that rabbit hole and really start exploring things from, from that lens. And it really gave her a lot of self-understanding. So I do. I agree with you that it really does do that.

[ 00:34:56,750 ]Omitting these things really does a number on people and they don't know who they are. They don't know where they came from. They don't know their ancestry and it is an injustice. It absolutely is. Would you like to elaborate on that? Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing about it is, I think all of us should— have a good understanding of of our roots. You know, I think that's what makes our nation. Peculiar, different. Um, very unique. Um, you know, I. I lived in South Korea for four years. Guess what? The nation is made up of what? Koreans. Stop. Japan. Made up of Japan. Everyone. is looking the same. You know? Kind of like. So... If you ask yourself, well, what's an American? What does an American look like?

[ 00:35:53,680 ]Well, geez. An American. is the bringing together of different people. under one concept. That is what, you know, it is. Now, All right. I think all of us should learn. Where our roots and so forth is. But I also do believe in that there is such thing as a melting pot. That if you look back over immigration and so forth, people understood. That they came from different places. But when they got here, they pushed to become Americanized, to become an American. And what does that mean? Because I know now that when you say something like that, people will look. And say something like, 'Oh.' That's phobic. Or that's racist. No. That's that's what it was. That's what people wanted. To become and to know. Um. And, and. So what was that?

[ 00:36:50,110 ]Well, there was a concept. One flag. One constitution. and an understanding of the Declaration of Independence, meaning that those ideals and virtues that is in our founding documents is what makes up America. And so I sometimes think those that come from other places too here. Because they have to go through so many hoops to become an American citizen? I think sometimes they actually understand it better than those that were born here, you know, in many, many ways. Yeah, definitely. I appreciate that. One thing I wanted to touch on, you mentioned earlier, was Thomas Jefferson being vilified. That's a huge. Thing because I'm from Charlottesville, Virginia, so we hear all about that all the time, and I just think it's really fascinating because the people who are vilifying Thomas Jefferson don't know what you said earlier about how Thomas Jefferson went to the General Assembly and tried to get rid of slavery, and all this kind of stuff.

[ 00:37:50,990 ]Like, they don't know that. So one of my questions for you is, before we get into the next historical character, how much of this is driven by true intent, or how much of it is driven by just time constraints and not being able to cover things in the curriculum? Because you've mentioned the curriculum several times. So just to repeat the question, how much of history is driven by time constraints and how much of this is driven with intent? You know, at one time I wanted to say it was. I wanted to say, and I felt comfortable saying. Uh, time restraints. That public school teacher side comes out— you know. What's that? But now I believe two things. What is driving this? Is, um, premeditated, intense. To put out a specific story.

[ 00:38:46,520 ]Or a specific line. And. And I hate saying it, ignorance. If we were to go out, you and I, Nikki, out on the street, there in Charlottesville or here in Hampton Roads, and say, 'Hey! Who was the black? Paul Revere.' People couldn't tell you went worth Cheswell. I mean, who was the American or who was the hero at? the Battle of Buckle Hill. No one could tell you. God, they're going to give you names. They're going to say, probably things like George Washington. Or, you know, something like that, right? It would not surprise me. If we said who was known as the Black Paul Reveal, because we don't listen well anymore, someone would probably say Paul Reveal. I mean, you know, you've seen that too. Um, So I think it's more.

[ 00:39:43,770 ]Today, Not so much time. Because we've all got 24 hours in a day, so you put in what is important. And you prioritize. If you will. But I think now it's coming down to agendas. And. The just the ignorance that we have of our own history anymore. Yeah, I really appreciate that. Well, let's get into the next— almost said Bible character. I can hear my grandmother in the other room talking about church. It's kind of a Bible character. But the next person you have on your list is Henry Highland Garnett. I hope I said his name right. But what can you tell us about this individual? Yes. And if you will just give me— I'm going to see if this light turns on. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's an audio podcast.

[ 00:40:34,920 ]So that's the reason why we do audio, guys, because the video thing I had somebody reach out to me a little bit ago. So funny, Ted. Somebody reached out to me on Podmatch. He was a guest on the show. uh tony barardo he was a guest on my show so if the listeners if you go down and on the podcast list you'll see tony barardo and he is so cool he's just a nice guy but anyway so he messaged me and he was like you need to do more video podcasts and i was like dude i literally hate video podcasts like i cannot stand it so anyway that's why we do audio because stuff like this happens you gotta get up you sometimes you just don't want to put on makeup you know You don't want to have like, it's okay if you have a little bit of shine and sheer on your face or a pimple.

[ 00:41:14,320 ]It's fine. You don't have to put on a full face of makeup. So anyway, go ahead. But you look great, Ted. It's all good. Thank you. Yes, Mr. Garnett. Okay. Oh my goodness. Now, to understand him, right? You have to understand. the background. Because if I just told you. who he was and what he did. You know, maybe you're some of your many of your listeners say big deal. But. Again, it's the context of things. And what we don't know anymore, we don't know. So. Here you have. We are in the throes of the American Civil War. We don't even know if the union's going to win. At this point, it doesn't look like it. You know. Um, and so... Lincoln and the Republican Party, they had their divisions in there.

[ 00:42:09,620 ]You had the conservatives. You had— the um— the hard um— you know, abolitionist, if you will. Um, you know, they... They were trying to. Figure out. How are we going to win this thing ultimately? So... This comes down to Lincoln wants a 13th Amendment. Um. And. You know, at that time, he wanted an amendment that would actually end slavery. Okay. Now. Um, today, we wouldn't even think about, oh, okay, yeah, that's a given. Not, not then. Not then, because you have so much context of this. The North went into this, not necessarily for slavery. The North actually went into this. Because this concept of that we were one nation that was indissolvable. Okay. And that states just can't lead. That was one. That was one argument. That was made.

[ 00:43:11,440 ]And that was really what Lincoln was getting at. So when the 13th came around, as the war is going on and understanding what those roots... causes of a lot of the economic questions. A lot of the questions of property. and and whatnot. Um, really set this in play. So. The Senate passes the 13th Amendment. It gets sent, oh, I'm sorry. The House of Representatives Dead. Then it gets sent on over to the Senate. And, oh, you want to talk about a slugfest? Arguments, you know. I mean, the veracity of just... the name calling, the smears, all of that, that was there and it was finally passed. I mean, it was close. The vote was close because, please keep in mind, it's not a simple majority.

[ 00:44:13,350 ]You have to have like two thirds to pass. You know, that constitutional amendment. And in Congress, Um, And. in order to get it to the states. And yeah, it was like by eight votes. So in honor of this. Um, The Republicans at that time said, we want to have someone to come and speak. In celebratory, a message, if you will. And so. Mr. Garnett was a minister there. And he had the honor of coming and speaking. He would be the first Black person to speak to both Congress, the Senate, and the House. And he just laid it out. Um. Of talking about Slay. Slaying the demon, slay the monster called slavery. And it just, I'm getting chills just thinking about it. You know, how he had laid it all out.

[ 00:45:25,580 ]And it's a pretty amazing story. But to understand what he was saying in his words, and the significance of being the first. You have to understand. That to get there to pass the that 13th Amendment. Was huge and was significant with that. Yeah. I really appreciate that. Thank you for your education on the significant, I mean, all of them really are significant in their own ways, but on these individuals that before you texted me, I had no idea. Who these people were or anything, so you know, pardon my ignorance, guys, but that's the reason why I wanted to that's the reason why I do this podcast, like I've even had kids ask me, they're like, 'Why do you do a podcast about parenting when you don't even have any kids to learn Literally what I say.' So it's it's really interesting.

[ 00:46:20,120 ]Now, let me ask you a question about identity formation. How does omitting all of this history? Thank you. Influence black kids and kids who are not black in terms of the way that they develop and see the world in themselves. The short answer to that is: look around and see what we've got going on today. You now. You now have a society. That because they don't know. And they can't identify. With our past. You know, correctly and properly. Um, you're having a loss of consciousness, a divisionary. That's actually destroying us. Um, I personally think. You know, if children, black and white, knew that there was Not only... Paul Revere. And a Dwight Eisenhower. And... George Washington, but knew that there was Absalom Jones and Peter Salem and Wentworth Cheswell.

[ 00:47:28,820 ]Um, William Flora. That I think both. Would actually learned so much. Um, And to be able to identify and say, 'Yeah, these are. Heroes. In particularly black students because of. Um where we see society is at today, I think that would just be a bump in the arm. You know, because I was really hoping. That when we got to the point where we were seeing President Barack Obama. I mean, you know, don't have, I'm not saying one way or the other of agreement or so forth, but when you had him and Condoleezza Rice and General Powell. You know, I was hoping that it could have. Turn the conversation. You know. But. And unfortunately, I think it actually made it worse. You know. Because, you know. breaking that that agenda that is being put out there now.

[ 00:48:30,819 ]is difficult. And let's face it, one side doesn't want to break that. That's what they want. And so, yes, it would be very important to learn these different individuals and people. The heroes. of what they did. Kids in general. that people may not understand this, but a lot of children. Actually, participated in the American Revolution. at young ages. And we don't even know that either. of what they did. Well, yeah, no, I didn't. I definitely didn't know that. How did they participate? Oh my goodness. So... you had, um, Well, you had girls. that actually were midnight writers. As well. Oh, wow. They were 14, 15, 16. Um, years old. that actually was getting the word out. Um, you had And his name is slipping my mind right now. But.

[ 00:49:33,860 ]Everyone talks about the Boston Massacre. and Crispus Addicts. And those were killed, and we need to talk about them. But we don't talk about the event that just happened 10 days before. that A young man. age of 11. was shot and killed. off of protests. Which... I just learned that like six years ago. And when I read up on it. More. And I learned from it. Um. And leading up to the 10 days of the actual Boston Massacre is what we call it itself. You know, to me, I think. That. is actually what pushed. the second event forward. And these were from young people. Wow, that's a whole... His name was Christopher Snyder. He was an 11-year-old boy. Yep. Wow.

[ 00:50:30,150 ]I just imagine you in your house and you, I feel like you've got like timelines everywhere of all these different historical events. It's so cool. I have to ask, how does your classroom actually look? Do you have like all these historical photos and artifacts and things everywhere? Thank you. So my classroom, because of being an alternative school, you know, we have to have certain posters up. You know, about rules and this and so forth. So I don't necessarily have a lot of room for a lot of that. But I do have. Um, I've got the poster of the image of what I call the Magnificent Seven. I've got. the, uh, Like, I, uh... Declaration of Independence. Framed. Uh. I have... Thank you. We don't see these much anymore, but those big.

[ 00:51:21,620 ]pictures of George Washington that was up in every elementary school at one time, right? I've got one of those. So... You know, I try to have that stuff. up. as much as I can. up too. So. Um, but. It's not so much what I've got up on the walls. It's what we're doing. Which is crazy at times. So. Yeah, I really admire what you do. And there was my cousin, my cousin Lisa, she was telling me one time how her history teacher back in the day, and he was actually, she's from the Hampton Roads area where you are. From and she just said that she would go into his classroom and he was the most unique teacher because he was obsessed with history.

[ 00:52:01,640 ]So I think she even told me that he had a suit of armor in his class and there was not one inch of his classroom that was not covered in something that was historic. I mean, it could be anything and everything. So that when you walked into that classroom, you were, you were in another world. Even if you didn't have any knowledge of history, maybe you didn't even like history— you couldn't help but be immersed in that kind of environment and learn something because there was always something new to pick out. There was no, it was so intricate the way he did it. There's no way that you could look at the wall and just look at the same poster, you know, 50 times in the same class because there was stuff everywhere.

[ 00:52:42,210 ]So no matter where your eye went, you were always... Going to see something new every single time, and I just think that i think that what you guys do as history teachers is is so commendable and so respectable. Um, on a different note, you sent me a picture when you said the 'Magnificent Seven' is that what you said? Yeah, was that is that this picture that I'm looking at— the first black members of the U. S. Congress? Yes, okay, cool. So just for you guys who are listening to the show, Ted sent me an image of the first black members of the U.S. Congress. The Senate and it goes through the years from 1870–1871, and then it's got some individuals with their names.

[ 00:53:17,450 ]It's the image is just a little bit blurry because it's a screenshot. But we have a senator from Mississippi, a representative from Alabama, another representative from South Carolina, representative from Florida, representative from Georgia, representative from South Carolina, and another representative from South Carolina. Do you care to elaborate a little bit more on this image? Because it really is a cool thing to see. I'm going to have to actually save this. Yes, so this is who I'm calling the Magnificent Seven. Um, And every single one of those individuals were black men. Who were elected to Congress. Either to the Senate or the House. Thank you. Representative side. Almost all of them, except maybe one. Possibly two. were formal slaves. And here's what's crazy, because we were talking about education before.

[ 00:54:12,200 ]So as each one of them got into Congress, they led. the debates on the Civil Rights Act. uh Not 1962 or so forth, right? But. The Civil Rights Act of 1875. Yeah, we had one. Dead. And these men. They would debate and argue. against formal confederate general Oh, the... and so forth that was then serving back in. Um, Congress. Every single one of them were Republicans. That's what most people don't. understand either. that will slaves and free blacks. they would come along and they actually formed. Republican clubs. And they would get people elected. You know, until the election of 1877. And that's when... Basically, Reconstruction ended, and each one of them lost their seats again. They, for them to be. Just slaves. Let's just say 10 years before.

[ 00:55:19,930 ]And to be able to go in and so eloquently. Debate and argue. And help get past. Key and certain. Things. Speaks volumes. To um who we are. And the human experiment. You know, with this. Again, it's an image that says, yeah. We don't know. Wow, that is fascinating. Thank you. I have to do a deep dive on that. So as we kind of just wrap up this podcast, I have some questions that are not necessarily historical. But more parent-facing. So in your opinion, what's obviously not all of Black history is going to be successful? And triumph and there's a lot of devastation, a lot of disheartening things, and heartbreaking things as well in the in that story. Um, but what is a healthy response for a kid, especially a kid who maybe feels angry or just confused about what they're learning?

[ 00:56:24,460 ]Yeah, so if you're a child and you're getting angry or confused about what you're learning, please, by all means, talk with your parents about what you're learning. Because they will probably be angry and confused. About what you're learning. And then, you know, I would strongly encourage families turn. turn a, um, I would like to think that some of us still do a dinner table. But if not, maybe bring it back a little bit. And have a history night a little bit. With regards to. you know, what really was and what's really not. If you're a parent, Listen. You know, I'm encouraging you. to um Maybe you've always had questions about history. that you've just never taken the time to research or find out. Go digging! Pull up primary sources.

[ 00:57:16,720 ]I mean, The beauty about the time we're living in, you pull up. 그리고 Right? And you can put a question in there. But then premise it with finding primary sources. Over whatever that question is. You learn from it. Teach that to your kids. Encourage them. To um be able to speak up in class. About those things because they're on the side of right. More than anything else. Yeah, most definitely. So how much, no, let me rephrase this. How do people know when they are truly teaching history, especially parents? So how do parents know when they're truly teaching history versus passing down a narrative? Thank you. Oh, you can tell I love the question. Yeah, Ted was smiling. And I'm saying this, and I'm saying this as a public school teacher.

[ 00:58:15,800 ]To answer your question on the short side of it, we're not. We're not teaching history. We're teaching what? a state capital. Department of Education is wanting. Thoughts. For a state test. History is more than dates and times and people's names. History asks questions. How did we get to where we got? And when you start asking questions that require thinking, then you do come across memes like Wentworth Chesswell, Peter Salem, you know, Pastor Garnett. Uh, And so I'm. Telling parents that, yeah, your children are not getting. the proper history education. Um, what you think they are. And. It's sad because, again, we don't know. But it allows for one side to go ahead and teach an agenda that they want taught. Because there's nothing to counter it. Yeah.

[ 00:59:25,280 ]I keep thinking in my head, there's one thought swirling around. That's just about the agendas and what we are teaching kids to think and to feel. Sometimes inadvertently, sometimes intentionally. And I think that both of you and I, both of us, can really agree that whatever's going on, going on is not working. It's not helping. It's not helping people to become braver and stronger and better and more capable. And smarter, it's not any of that. I just, I don't know. I could go on all day and stand on a soapbox about that, but I won't. So from your perspective. How do we continue to challenge? our assumptions? And what can we do to get comfortable with being uncomfortable with this history?

[ 01:00:19,860 ]And the reason why I ask is because— and I was debating whether I was actually going to say this on the show, but I'm going to go ahead and say it because it's not my thoughts. This is, these are thoughts from other people. And I want to kind of postulate this to you. So I've been told by a black person that there's a hierarchy in our society. hierarchy is based on race and gender. And what they told me was that first comes the white man, and then under the white man is the white man. And then under the white woman is the black man. And then under the black man is the black woman. And so that made me feel tremendously uncomfortable. Because when I meet people, I treat everybody fairly.

[ 01:01:09,010 ]I treat everybody equally. I treat people with tremendous respect all the time. I wouldn't go as far as to say, like some people say they're colorblind and all that kind of stuff. Like I'm not stupid. I can see, I can see what people look like, but in no way does that inhibit or influence the way that I treat you because I always come at it from a godly and biblical. Perspective. And so, if I think you're smart, I'm going to call you smart. If I think you're stupid, I'm going to call you stupid. Like, it doesn't matter any— none of the other stuff, none of the superficiality matters. So, anyway, just kind of getting back to the question, how can we challenge these assumptions and just get comfortable?

[ 01:01:52,340 ]With being uncomfortable, because there's a lot here that I can just hear all the voices in my head right now. Just what about this? And what about that? And what about this? So, what are your thoughts on this? So to the individual that actually said that to you, my response back to them would be, 'Can you prove what you just said? Because I can turn around. And I can show you example after example that that is not true. The case. I mean, if you're going to put this in a pyramid structure, I can only assume. That you're also talking about institutional. An institution can be government, can be business, can be. All those things. And when I look around, I mean, I see. Black women. That's. Has been, uh, Secretary of State.

[ 01:02:41,450 ]I, you know, I have seen black men that rose to the highest levels of generals. I see women, white women that is holding. influential and powerful positions. For like press secretary. You know, in a White House. Um. So... You know, you're. Your pyramid is skewed. And your payment is reflecting again. What you're being told. So that you can continue, so that we can continue to live by these fallacies of the divisiveness of what's going on. Is the problem. Um, One of the things... Why it's so wrong is because we've gotten away from. We've gotten away from trying to learn. Versus just. learning. And what I mean by that is. That we've gotten to this point where we've made Learning easy. Just go to Google. Just go to AI.

[ 01:03:45,380 ]Just go ask a question. And there's not much process in that. Of having to reflect and reason. And so forth. One of the things that I would love to see. That I think could turn around with proper, professional development on the part of teachers. For this, this is not going to happen. So I'm speaking to a dream, a little bit. But I would love to see us. But, uh, Houghton Mifflin. And other book, textbook companies on notice and say, You know. Thank you. It's been a great relationship, more so for you than for us. But we won't be buying textbooks next year or the next round. And we actually go back to. Um, primary sources. Um, I. Look. Every day in my classroom, we never use the textbook.

[ 01:04:39,730 ]I can have a primary source for something. Or for everything. That's going on. It's just you have to dig. You have to look. Primary sources may make us feel uncomfortable. Oh, let me tell you. I read the speech by Alexander Stevenson, who was the vice president for the Confederacy, his cornerstone speech. Talking about blacks and the black slaves. His words, let me— I got mad. I had shivvles down my— shivvles, shivvles, shivvles, you know what I'm saying, down my Yeah. You know, down my back with regards to what this man was actually saying. Um. But here's the thing. And this is with what you're getting at, too. What good does it do for me to get? Mad, angry. and try to build into. All right. Because I'm white, I'm more evil.

[ 01:05:42,910 ]or so forth, because of what someone said. Over a hundred. 45, 50, 60. years ago that lived in a different time and had a different mindset. You know? Um. But don't go into the biases either. Say, oh, well. You can't really take that at the same because their personal body. No, take them for what they said. You know, I actually believe too. Strangers or my own children and so forth. And that says, if you've never told me a lie. You know, why would I need? Why would I have any reason to question what you're telling me right now? You know? I mean, that's the same thing with primary sources. You know, um, What's the need in questioning? What they're saying. It is what it is, of the time period.

[ 01:06:34,190 ]Of what they're living through. So... I think that's what we need to get back to as well, you know, as a society. To search out truth. Not say, 'truth is relative' or 'truth is... No. To seek out truth. You know, two questions. Encourage that with our kids. Um, Because ultimately, and I'll be the first to tell you if... Parents that are listening, if you haven't heard this before. From a public school teacher, you are responsible for your child's education. You were God-ordained to do that. They gave you that child. He gave you that child for a purpose. And so learn together. You know? Find out what's going on in school. What are you talking about in history? Talk about it.

[ 01:07:29,020 ]You know, if you've got to take it to another level, by all means, do that too. Yeah, definitely. Well, Some final key takeaways, guys, for this podcast. I was just thinking about it as Ted was talking and I was listening to him kind of go in on this subject. I was just thinking that, you know, Black history is something that it's worth more than just a single month or a single little blip on the radar or just one single narrative. It really is based on, you know, some of the things I've learned even just today, what little, you know, just little teeny bit, this was just a drop in the bucket. It's not even scratching the surface. I have a feeling. And Ted's shaking his head.

[ 01:08:07,660 ]He's like, 'No, definitely not.' And but this is really lowered and not lowered. It's layered and it's it's global. And this, this, this talk on history is really unfinished. It's never just, you know, flat and ending and that's it. It's not like that. And I feel like modern day history has really been, it's really given us, over a massive oversimplification of what has really happened. And then what ultimately happens as a result of that is when the history is narrowed, narrowed, then imagination, comprehension, and, as Ted said, consciousness begins to narrow with it. And that's not anything that we want to happen to any of us. So thank you, Ted, for being here with us today. I really appreciate your time and your education and all the resources that you sent me to look at.

[ 01:08:56,189 ]How can people connect with you? And also, when you give that information, can you also maybe provide us with some resources? I know you're all about primaries. Sources, but are there any websites? History Moments with Ted, are there anything that you would provide you can share with us that can help us do a deep dive on this if the listeners choose to do so? Yes. So, of course, yes, there is History Moments with Ted, and that is on Facebook. And pretty much anyone can post. Anything about history? And believe it or not, there's over 2,000 members, and we're pretty nice to one another. I mean, I've only had to boot out like five people in several years. For not playing well, but Um, But there's that in it.

[ 01:09:46,189 ]And it's about all kinds of history. Over there. Um, Also, too, Um, Well, with History Month, we also, like I said earlier, we're going to be doing events. So, if you're across the country and you can't necessarily be in Hampton Roads. Sometimes we're going to provide those events also on Zoom. So it's a live Zoom event as the event's going on. Um, So you can learn. of our history that way. Uh, Also, Yale University, I think it's called Avalon. Adios. Backslash law. I mean, it's one of those crazy. things right there. Um, But they have. They, you can click on it and you go to it and it's all. primary sources from ancient history from like the 400 BC. All the way up. to the 20th century.

[ 01:10:43,030 ]And it is over every topic from world history, American history that you ever want. If you wanted to look at the um, the socialization of the lords and the nobles on the manor system. You know, will there be contracts or documents on that? You can. All the way up to um, primary sources of declaration of wars. To, um, uh, inaugural addresses of different presidents. Those are pretty fascinating because they give you a snapshot of what we were facing as a nation, you know, at that time as well. So that's a pretty good. Start. You know, off of those, off of those two things as well. So. Thank you so much for that, Ted. And also, if you're not already a part of my Facebook group, we have not even close to the number of members that you have at this point in time, because I just started it two days ago.

[ 01:11:41,880 ]We've got 41 members right now. But if you would like to join that, so that parents can connect with you, I put the link in the chat. And for those of you guys listening, the link will also be posted in the show notes today. I just want to thank you again tremendously for being here and having the best heart and just thank you so much for educating us and providing a more balanced perspective on the history that we're never taught. Appreciate you. Well, thank you. Absolutely. Thank you guys for listening. And we cannot wait for another episode of The Gentle Year. Thank you guys and have a great evening.