The Cost of Trying to Fix Everything | Robert DeLena (Episode Finale)

In this episode of The Gentle Year, Knikki Hernandez sits down with Robert DeLena to explore a powerful and deeply personal parenting journey—one that challenges how we think about behavior, discipline, and what it really means to help a child.

Through Ryan’s story, this conversation looks at how quickly systems can shape outcomes for children who think and behave differently. From early diagnoses and interventions to moments of breakthrough and connection, Robert shares what changed everything—and what didn’t.

This episode goes beyond surface-level parenting advice and examines the tension between supporting a child and trying to control the outcome. It also explores the idea of being a “good parent,” the risks of over-intervening, and how fear, pressure, and past experiences can quietly influence parenting decisions.

At its core, this conversation is about understanding the child beneath the behavior—and what can happen when a parent is willing to keep searching for what truly works.

In this episode, we discuss:

•  Behavior vs. deeper psychological needs 
•  The impact of systems on children and families 
•  Overparenting, micromanaging, and the urge to fix 
•  Identity, resilience, and finding a path that fits the child 
•  The role of passion and environment in a child’s growth 
•  What “good parenting” actually looks like over time 

Listen to hear how one experience changed everything—and why the answer isn’t as simple as it seems.

Join the conversation with other parents inside The Gentle Year Facebook community, where these ideas continue beyond the episode.

 For guest inquiries, partnerships, or to connect directly, email: turningthetidetutoringllc@gmail.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:16

In the last episode, we heard how quickly things escalated for both Robert and Ryan. Early diagnoses, repeated restraints, and a growing reliance on medication to manage behavior. But underneath all of that was a really difficult question that Robert had to answer. Was any of it actually helping? Or was the system shaping the outcome for Ryan more than anyone actually realized? This podcast is powered by turning the tide tutoring, personalized academic coaching for students who think differently, and acting with pipity where creativity and confidence come to life on and off the stage. Let's continue the discussion. I'm assuming that your daughter had a pretty traditional experience in school, and I'm wondering if there was any overlap between her experience or perhaps the experience of the other students who had a traditional upbringing and Ryan's personal story. Was there any overlap, any commonalities or connections, or was Ryan's situation purely one of a kind?

SPEAKER_00 1:13

My daughter had a very traditional path, right? She went to a very prestigious private school, one that I happened to go to on a scholarship. And um, you know, that I was very proud that she ended up there. And uh, you know, all of the kids there are the sort of these elite kids academically, right? Or athletically, or music, drama, like it's really not easy to get into the school. There's a large percentage of these kids that are on some kind of medication right now. And and some, you know, a lot of it is for ADHD, and I think there are kids who um, you know, probably benefit from that. And but a lot of them are on, you know, mental health medicines. And, you know, if if these kids are that percentage of that pool is on it, what's the rest of the, you know, the generation on? And so I I do I do worry. I do worry that we're, you know, we're using it the same reason we go back to my first your first question to fix these kids who aren't necessarily broken, but they're they're just different, you know, or they're just human, and we're not giving them a chance to sort of work through some of the stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Before we continue, I have two questions for you. First, what's the explanation that you think most people would say for the high medication rates in elite private schools versus public schools versus therapeutic schools? And what identity do you think each of these institutions is trying to maintain? Can you tell us a little bit more about that day on the ski slopes with Ryan? What actually occurred?

SPEAKER_00 2:45

So he was at that time he was seven, and we were, it was Christmas break, and uh we were home, and we had now winter was always hard, and thought that week was terrible because we had nothing to do. And he started to get into or had a fight with his sister, and I remember just throwing him in the car, and I didn't even tell him where we were going. I just started driving toward this place, and we had no equipment. And I remember thinking we'll never get through the rental process because it's gonna take so long, and they're gonna have to measure them. And you know, like, all right, maybe if we can get through that, at least we'll we'll try it once. He'll fall, he'll cry, we'll leave, you know. But at least I will have killed an hour driving there and an hour driving home. I will have killed at least two hours, hopefully three. That was my goal. And we we get through the process, and the magic carpet is like this people mover, like in the airport, it goes up the little bunny hill. And so we get on that, and I stick them between my legs, and we we get to the top. And I remember when we got to the top, I tried to explain to him like how you turn, and I like a bike, like turn like this, which is like the worst advice you could ever give us to you the exact opposite of what you should do. And he just looked at me and he shot down the bottom and he banked this turn back into the line. And I was like, How did he do that? He doesn't know what he's doing, you know. Nobody does that on their first ever, like, and so I fumbled my way down and he'd already cut the line. I moved him to the back of the line, and and he just it just I just saw a different kid that day because you know, it was the probably the first place where you know, skiing is a funny sport because it it's risk taking, right? And and and you're you know, you're you're a good skier if you're willing to take more risks. And and he was never in that environment. It was always Ryan, get off the couch, Ryan, get off the thing, Ryan, you know, stop touching the light bulb. And and all of a sudden I was in this place where it was like, yeah, go do it, like do whatever. Like just this whole world, go explore, go figure it out. And I just think for him that it clicked where he said, you know, I I can go fast, I can, you know, I can go explore, I can see places, I can do things. And and people not only are they not yelling at me, they're complimenting me for doing all these things. And and I think it really was a game changer for him. And and you know, for for me, you know, because for once, I wasn't, you know, I didn't leave there having to apologize to anyone. And I remember leaving there thinking, well, he was pretty good at that. Like he's he this could be something they and I and I knew we'd had a few of those where we started off and then it would end up inevitably failing. And it was probably because of either the structure of the game, you know, it was us there was a success failure in it, or there was a you know, that you know, golf or tennis or something like that, where it was, you know, binary, right? Either you hit the ball over the net or you didn't. And skiing didn't really have any of that, and and and I couldn't ruin it for him, I couldn't overcoach him because he was already better than me on day one. He was he's gone. He was gone, and I was like fumbling my way, trying not to fall. And and he got really good really fast. And then he, when we started to go out west, and this was like the second year, you know, these mountains had consequence, like there were runs that he would make me do that I remember thinking, this is it, I'm gonna die right here. Like, I cannot do this. I'm not, but I had to stay with him because he was so little, and he was so good. And and I don't know, I just remember thinking, you know, as long as I can make it to the bottom, I don't care how I get there. Uh, but I'm enjoying watching him, you know, have success here for the first time, really, together, like having success, and and and and to be proud of him. And I think he sensed that for the first time that that I was, and I was always proud of him, but I was really proud of him in this in this instance. And, you know, right away people were like, You're gonna put him in the race program, is he gonna be in the Olympics? And right, I luckily I resisted that and said, that would be the worst. Like, all of a sudden, you put a time clock on this kid and you're gonna ruin this thing that he loves so much. And luckily, skiing has that other side of just doing things that other people can't do, or exploring parts of the mountain, or doing runs that are just really tough for most people, and there is no score, it's just survival, right? Did you make it down? And and then that would really that really played into his personality. For unfortunately for me, it put me in positions where I should have died. And I remember a couple times I would say to him, like, all right, I have nine lives, Ryan. I'm like on number six. Like, we're we've got to stop. And so I started letting him go. And we and and he was you know, eight, nine, whatever he was back, you know, as he got better. And I just had a trust that he would meet me at the bottom. And here was a kid, they weren't they weren't allowing him to go to the water fountain without an aid or the bathroom without an aid in school. And we were in the middle of Utah, like in the back country, and I'm just letting this kid go and crossing my fingers at the bottom that he's gonna show up. And you know, there were a couple of times we did separate, and he he knew enough to ask eat patrol, or he made good choices. You know, he was making, you know, kind of grown-up decisions and stuff. Again, an example of what they said he never would be able to do, that he wouldn't be responsible. Uh, he wouldn't care if he hadn't seen me in a while, or worry that I would be worried. And he did, he did all that. He did all that. So uh it was a great, it was the perfect, I think, you know, it just was the right place at the right time. It put him in an activity where he was allowed to really be himself, and and I was forced to let him be himself, and it and it all added up to you know, kind of seeing the world in the process, and and we got to do that together, which which made it even more special.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

From danger to pressure to keeping score to Ryan probably experiencing sincere commendation for the first time in his very young life? Leave your answers to the following three questions in the comment section of this podcast. Question one, as a father, what do you think Robert was simultaneously losing and gaining throughout this whole experience on the slopes? Question two, in terms of safety, how do you think this situation might look differently from his wife's perspective? Question three, what was the reaction of the outsiders who saw Ryan's natural talent and gift for skiing? And why do you think they reacted that way? Yeah, I think that's a really good point that you were you absolutely were forced to let him be himself and to give him that freedom that he needed psychologically and emotionally, um, physically, I mean, in every single way. So, for you, what did this day mean for the rest of Ryan's life and the way that you disciplined him, the way you coached him, the way you parented him, and the way he was educated?

SPEAKER_00 9:09

You know, in the book we called it parallel tracks. You know, there was this as skiing really took off and became this positive force in our lives, you know, it was only one or two days a week or on vacations, right? The other five or six days, he still was in this school environment where where life was pretty terrible. You know, their home was still combustible and and you know, he didn't have a lot of friends. And and I think, you know, but it it gave him this, and I think I stressed this to parents, you know, if six out of the seven days are bad, but you know that seventh day is gonna be great, you'll make it to that seventh day every time. And it allowed him to kind of get through some really difficult times. And you know, one of the mistakes I think I made in that period was, you know, I would threaten if he was really acting up or things were bad, or we're not gonna ski on Saturday if you don't do this. And that was the worst thing I could have done. And I learned that early on. Like, you can't take this away from him. You can use it, you know, uh to say to him, Come on, this come on, I know this is hard. Like, Saturday's gonna be awesome. Let's or we're you know, heading to Utah next week. Well, we just gotta look forward to that. And it it gave it wasn't something I could hold over his head as a punishment. He needed it too badly, you know, and so um it I think it gave him it gave him hope. It it it also early on, I think he identified there were careers within this field. You know, he could be a professional guy, he could work on a mountain, and it gave him a path. You know, I think a lot of times, even in the you know, the schools where the therapeutic schools, they still kind of stressed that you needed to get a job at the end of this thing, you know, because they you know, you're gonna be you're gonna be off the state, you know, dole at 22, you're gonna have to, you know, find a job. And and they would, you know, kind of teach these kids how to work in retail or you know, some summer environment that we he would hate, you know. But but to talk about a ski guide career or rock climbing guide or something like that, that was something he was able to use as as I can be a grown-up someday and and uh and I'll I'll be okay. And people will say, well, there's Ryan, he's a ski guide, you know, he has a job, you know, he's not he's not just dependent on the you know his parents or the state. So um so the parallel tracks I think led to a pretty great place. But again, that that other side of the tracks wasn't great. It really wasn't. And you know, even through high school, when he finally made it back to our public school, junior year of high school, our town agreed to let him come back for a 45-day evaluation. And I think they thought he was gonna last a day. And I knew he was gonna be fine because at that point, restraint was off the table, and then he that he was off all his meds. And it was it wasn't easy to join our big thriving public school as a junior. And and most of the kids knew something about his backstory, and they knew he had been in these special schools. Yeah, I knew how hard that was gonna be socially. He didn't. I don't I think he thought, I'll just go up to people at the in the cafeteria, sit down and say, Hey, I'm Ryan, you know, nice to meet you. And yeah, I know what it's like in high school. You know what it's like in high school. Like, you know, the whispers and the you know, the the cool kids were not gonna talk to him. And and he had to he had to work really hard to find this collection of uh what I call misfits, you know, these kids who hadn't fit in any box and were left behind. And together they formed nice friendships and it gave him at least a group, but it wasn't it wasn't easy. So, you know, to back to the point, it it really he he needed the balance of that, and I think he needed to be good at something. You know, at that point, by the time he was in high school, people were aware of the fact that he was a really good skier, and uh, and it just gave him an identity, right? So that it meant everything. That day changed everything for him. You know, people I think knock us a little bit and say, well, you know, you you know, you you were able to throw a lot of money at the problem, right? You you you found this sport that was incredibly expensive and you started traveling the world, you know. And I say, that could have gone poorly that day, and I would have kept looking. You know, it it might have been who knows what if I rock climbing is like shoes and a harness, like it's it's a very inexpensive sport. It might have been that, you know, eventually we would have landed on that, and I would have been climbing right along with them and they probably would have died. But you know, it's it's you know, we I wasn't gonna give up till I found something, and and luckily landed on something that that he really loves. And and and I liked enough that it wasn't a chore for me to go to you know, Big Sky Montana or you know, or you know, Utah and all these kind of cool places. And so uh together we got to experience it and and he got to see me struggle, I think a lot of times. He was better than I was. I was I I was a lot heavier then. I was this like a guy who got pulled off his couch playing fantasy football, and all of a sudden I'm you know flying down these mountains trying to survive. And he got to see his dad in a very human form. Like he's scared, he's tired, he's sweating, you know, he's he doesn't want to do this, but he's doing it for me. And and so it was a cool experience.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Robert stated that he wasn't gonna give up on Ryan until he found something. When have you personally made a similar choice? And what influenced you to do so? Do you feel like this experience kind of pulled you closer together?

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Definitely. Yeah, the part I I always the you know, the part of skiing that the people don't realize how great it is are the chairlift rides up. You know, there's a lot of time, there's a little bit of downtime in skiing where, you know, there's not enough time to take out your phone, there's not enough time, you know, some people have headphones in, most people don't. You've got between like two and eight minutes to have a conversation, you know, and that's all and all you can do to kill the time is to have a conversation. And we had some great chairlift conversations, but we also had to travel together a lot. So we had to go through airports together and hotels, and we ate a lot of restaurants together, and and you know, the you know, again, it's a one-on-one time where you're talking about your day, you're talking about skiing. It wasn't, you know, home where you know kids are, you know, they're programmed to find ways to avoid you through TV or video games or their phone. You know, it was it was a lot of one-on-one time that was just conversational. And and I got to to hear a lot about what was going on at school and and what he was you know going through socially. And and and I and I think had I not had that time, I you know, we're all in our houses. We're incredibly busy. We find ways to just stay busy. And you know, I was forced, you know, on a plane for six hours or on a chairlift or in a restaurant to just listen and and and stop parenting and shut up for a second and just listen to your kid and hear them what they're going through. And I think that was that was a great experience for me. And I and I think one I needed to have. And I'd like to say it's translated into how great a parent I am with my daughter. And I still fall into those traps, you know. When you have a typically developing kid, I you know, sometimes you just forget, you know, like all right, you she'll let me know if she's struggling. Yeah. Well, that's not, you know, you can't always rely on that. Yeah sometimes you have to ask, you know, and and and I forget, you know, because she's a thriver, she's a she's you know, the achiever. Uh, you know, and and uh but it's it's I I wish I took every lesson I learned from him and applied it to her, but uh it's I I have it. I I'm a human, right? I I still sort of fall into those traps.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

We don't know much about Robert's daughter, but do you think it's possible that she became the quote unquote easy child, not by nature, but by adaptation? As a result of all of this, has your definition of good parenting changed?

SPEAKER_00 16:31

You know, in in writing the book, you know, I hear from parents a lot, right? And you know, I knew I'd get the moms, right? I just it's it's stereotypical, but I just figured, you know, any mom that reads this, I'm gonna make cry and they're gonna feel everything I felt. Because it's just it's just natural, right? But with the dads, it's it's funny. It breaks down. I probably get eight out of ten, right? And the eight that I get are like me, they bleed it, right? Everything their kid feels, they feel. And and and you know, you're only as happy as your unhappiest kid, right? There are dads who live that, and and and and they'll write me these long emails about about you know their mistakes and wishes the wishes that they had done differently. And I'm like, I I get that guy. Like he's he I know. The two that I don't, you know, I it's there are still dads, I think, out there that they're not terrible parents, they're not, they don't hurt their kids, they're but they just there's an indifference, and I think you know that you know, I'm a little older, and and most dads were like this back when I grew up. You know, they they worked, right? They put the food on the table and and then they came in when they had to, there was a problem, right? But otherwise, they kind of were checked out emotionally from from some of the and it those kids could end up doing wild, like doing great, wildly successful. You know, there's there's some I watched that happen as a kid growing up. Um the the dad was almost just like a marker, right? Like I achieve what he achieved. Um, but he's not gonna be involved in the nuance in every day. And and it's funny, I I don't know how to define or or I don't know if I should, you know, it's too subjective to say who's a good parent and who's a bad parent. Um, because I think uh I was a good parent when I made a lot of these mistakes. I I maybe I was too good, you know. Maybe maybe I would have been better off if I just took a step back and let things play out. But I I wanted to micromanage and fix everything because I I didn't want him to have any of these struggles. I wanted it to be of a clearer path. So I, you know, I think if you show up every day and and you give everything you have, I think there's a period of time where your parents, your kids won't appreciate that, you know. But I I I've lost both my parents this year. And I, you know, I think when you look back and you think, God, if nothing else, they tried their best, right? They they always loved me and cared and wanted the best for me. They didn't always make say the right things, do the right things, but they they cared. And I think that's that's all it really, that's all kids really need to feel is that's exactly it. That you're there, you know, and that you love them, and that you'll be there if they mess up. And I think um it's it's it's become this, you know, we look at these handbooks and these books and YouTube and you know, these guides, and you know, people have been parenting for bazillion years without really any model or any sort of benchmarks. They they just they just have to show up and and be there.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Robert sarcastically says that he may have been a parent that was too good, emphasizing the idea that he might have been too quick or hasty to jump in and intervene when he wanted to fix something. In my research, I have found ten core reasons for why a parent may feel this way. Which of the following ten do you think describe Robert's situation? Number one, anxiety and threat sensitivity. Number two, control as a way to create safety. Number three, identity tied to being a good parent. Number four, fear of regret. Number five, projection of their own past. Six, discomfort with their child's emotions. Seven, urgency bias. Number eight, social pressure and comparison. Number nine, misreading dependence as care. And number ten, lack of trust in the process or the child. That right there is a commentary on our society that parents have been parenting without a model for centuries, you know, and like why? Like you would think after all this time there'd be some sort of support, but there's I don't know. Anyway, but I it's I think that really the core lesson here is that it's not about being so literal, you know, as because like somebody could take your message and they could say, Oh, well, you went skiing and that solved your problem. Well, that's way too literal. That's not, that's not what it is. It's about not about the literalness of the story, it's about the message behind it. The message behind the story is that you cared enough and you tried so many things, and this was really just kind of like an act of desperation to get out of the house, kill sometime so you're so that these two kids wouldn't like kill each other in the house. And you just kind of stumbled on something that was and was extraordinary. And that can happen to anyone. It just so happened that for your experience, you know, God led you down this path to this specific place. But it doesn't have to be that literal for everyone. Um, as another example to that, I was listening to someone speak this morning. There was a recording that they had played where a uh a father had said that he had always told his son, you got to go out and get a job, get a job, get a job, and just preach that all the time. And so the kid was not doing well at any of the jobs and he would get fired or he would quit. It was always a point of contention and frustration for this family, the father and the son but specifically. And so finally the father prayed and he was like, God, what do I do? Like, what do I do with my son? And um, you know, through some Internal reaching, prayer, meditation, whatever, whatever process he he went through, he came to the conclusion, well, wait a second, why am I going to send my son out into the world to work for somebody else and make them rich when we could build something together? And that was kind of the conclusion that he came to. And so thus the father proposed the idea to the son, and everything really worked out, and that was great. But again, people can even take that message too literally. It's not that you or me or a specific family has to have your child come work for you. That's way too literal. The message behind that is that the person looked at society, looked at their son, looked at the situation at hand and the environment and what was causing these problems and was searching for a solution that worked for them on an individual basis. It's not the solution itself that everybody has to apply because you know, as a coach, that you are, you said it in the very beginning of the podcast, you're not here to tell other parents what to do. You're trying to get them to follow their own intuition. Yeah. That applies to their family and their unique circumstances. And that's really the the core message. So um, Ryan, I'm gonna give you the last word on that, and then I've got two more questions for you before we close out. So do you have any kind of closing thoughts on on the show today and this and the story that you've told us?

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Yeah, I'd I'd say to parents, you know, trust your instincts. And then I think especially with with the well, I was gonna say for a kid with who with issues or without, you know, any kid, finding a passion it just it it it makes life a lot easier, you know. And I think for a lot of these kids, you know, I mean a lot of us, right? It it takes a few attempts, right? It's not sometimes the parents pick the passion and say, okay, you're gonna be a club soccer player, and here you go, and now we're on the bus, you know, you know, eight days a week here to make this work. And and it doesn't always work out. But if your kid loves something, and and sometimes it's gonna be something you never saw coming, you know, I didn't see skiing coming. And you know, there are probably kids who pick up a violin and just love it, right? And then and all of a sudden you're at concerts and you're sitting there saying, I can't believe this is my life, but you're gonna sit there, shut up, and smile. And and if that's what your kid is into, let them just take it for all it's worth. Because if they have that, again, they'll be able to offset all of this other stuff, you know, all of this this noise, the social media pressures, you know, because they have this one thing they feel good about. And it's it's gonna take some some some attempts. I mean, it's not gonna be the first thing you try. And and you know, I think for me, the mistakes I made with Ryan, you know, Ryan loved the outdoors and he loved nature. I didn't want to camp, I didn't want to do Boy Scouts. That was me making the decision for him. I should have I should have encouraged that stuff in the beginning. Luckily, skiing was one of those things we both kind of liked, but um, I would say ignore that. If you're a parent and your kid has a love of bugs, then go out in the woods and look for bugs. You know, just it just gives them something to look forward to. And uh, you know, that's that's that's that's a big lesson that I I wish I had learned earlier, but luckily I learned in time.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Yeah, that's really beautiful. So, last two questions. Where can we find you and your amazing book?

SPEAKER_00 25:15

So the book is called Without Restraint. It's available on Amazon. It does an audio version, um, anywhere books are sold. Um, Ryan and I, like I said, we we we wrote separately. Um his his text is in italics, mine is in traditional font. Um, he wrote his, you know, he was in high school when he wrote his part of the book. And you know, so he's probably about a third of the book. Early on, it's it's mostly me because he it it covers from really birth to high school. So when he was little, you know, I'm I'm really the narrator of the story. Toward the end, it's really him doing most of the talking. And I think that format worked well because you can see his growth, you know, throughout the book. He also has, like I said, a photographic memory. So he was able to recall all of this stuff from his childhood, which you know was hard for me to read, but I think was was pretty compelling. Um so you'll find the book anywhere books are sold. And like I said, the audio book, we we there's two separate readers, so with the same format, so you can tell the different voices when it when it's my version and his version. So it's a great book. It's an easy read, it's fast, and I think people really like it. Uh, you know, one of the things you said is it's it's a skiing is almost a metaphor in the books. If you've never skied, it's not it's not that you need to understand skiing, and there's a lot, it's more of a parenting story than anything else. Um social media, I mean, I'm I'm I'm you're able to find me. I think most people find me to ask questions about the book or or to to help uh to get advice. I mean, I'm Robert Delana on Facebook and on Instagram, and and there's a book website um you where you can reach out to me directly through there. The better follow is Ryan. Ryan is a much better follow on Instagram. He's extreme underscore Ryan underscore Delena D-L-E-N-A. Uh, he's also on Facebook at Ryan Delana. He does a lot of YouTube content um where he makes um a lot of the ski travels he's done and places he's gone. Um, he cuts up these edits and um he's become sort of known in New England as the guy. If you want to ski in the backcountry, which is outside the resorts, he knows every nook and cranny of the mountains that we have here. And uh you can see some good content there. So follow Ryan if you're gonna do anything.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

I'm definitely gonna do that. That is really cool. Well, definitely gonna check out your book. I appreciate you so much, Robert. One last question before we close out. And it's a question that I always ask all the guests that come on the show, and you can interpret it however you wish. The question is: what do you believe is the most important education that a child could ever receive?

SPEAKER_00 27:42

I think it's resiliency. I think it's the ability to, you know, to fail and get up and and keep going. You know, I I I look at this generation and I the tolerance for failure has become, you know, they just they just don't have the ability, I think. And I think it's the world they live in. I think that when you're in this infinite pond of people that every day you look and you see people who are prettier and skinnier and better athletes. You know, when we grew up in a town, you might have said, all right, I'm not the best looking guy, but I'm you know, I'm I'm better looking than some, or I'm not the best athlete, but I'm better than some. You were comparing yourself to like 80 other kids. They're comparing themselves to, you know, millions, billions. And it's and I think they it it their self-worth is so so you know, you know, tarnished to begin with that they they just can't pick themselves up and dust themselves off when things go wrong. So yeah, resiliency is is I think to me is the number one, you know, criteria for for how someone will do. Uh I'll throw in a couple of the curiosity, I think, is is if you're just naturally curious, you're gonna find things out. And and gratitude. I mean, I think at the end, you know, I learned a lot about how lucky I was to have gone through this experience and and how lucky I was to have these two kids. And and you know, I'm just I'm grateful, you know, and I and I think when you're going through it, sometimes you forget that part. So yeah, so all kids should be, you know, resilient, curious, and grateful. That's three things I know, but those are the three biggies.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

It's really amazing to me how the people's answer to that question really reflects their own journey that I can see. Um, I can definitely see a lot of resilience in you and why you would think that would be extremely important because of what you've gone through. And then the uh the what was the grateful curiosity, being curious about things that you may not necessarily have a natural interest in. And then also just being grateful that you know you were chosen to be the parents of these two amazing child kids.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

That's really cool. Well, thank you so much, Ryan. We really appreciate you and I want to extend an invitation for you anytime. If you ever want to come back on the gentle year, you're more than welcome.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Thanks so much. My pleasure. It was fun conversation.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

In listening to Robert and Ryan's story, I know that for me, one of the key takeaways is what parenting can look like when a mother or a father is willing to go to the ends of the earth to connect with their child, to see their child happy, or to find a solution for something that seems incurable. This type of love isn't about living with no regrets or feeling perfect in every single decision. It's about seeking answers, questioning what you're told, and following your intuition. If this story resonated with you and you would like to be a guest or a sponsor of the show, please contact me. My information is in the show notes, and I thank you again for listening to The Gentle Year.