Why 2032 Changes Everything About Your Future...UNLESS You Do This!

What if the way you think about money, investing, and the future is already outdated? 

Raoul Pal joins Sonya and Agon Love for a real conversation on crypto, AI, and where things are heading next. They break down what’s actually shifting with wealth, why most people are missing it, and how this next cycle could reshape financial freedom. If you’re curious about cryptocurrency, passive income, and how AI is changing the global economy, this episode will expand how you see what’s coming.

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💜 Instagram: @raoulgmi
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💜 Website: https://globalmacroinvestor.com/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you're Gen Z, the only hope you have is rich parents. And if you say I'm not going to invest, you're going to go into that event horizon with no security whatsoever. What life is that? That's no money. We're about to go through the greatest change humanity and civilization have ever gone through. So we've got about five years to unf our future.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

Raoul Pahl is a prominent financial analyst, the CEO of Realvision, and a brilliant mind that millions follow for his bold perspective on crypto.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

What became this meme that drives me utterly insane is passive income.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Oh my god, yes! Please talk about that!

SPEAKER_01 0:36

The whole issue of that passive income means I don't need to work, and the world does not work that way.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

A lot of people hear you speak, and it's crazy to them that you've gone all in on crypto.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Nobody has the right to say, sorry, you shouldn't invest in the best performing asset class of all time.

SPEAKER_06 0:50

Why do you think people are still skeptical of crypto, the ones who are scared?

SPEAKER_01 0:55

You can't blindly pick some random crypto and say, this is going to be the most important thing. Everything has become one bet. It's the future or the past.

SPEAKER_06 1:02

Is AI able to trade better than humans and it can predict the trends?

SPEAKER_01 1:06

It is a black curtain beyond about 2032. I call it the economic singularity. We're going to have a new apex creature on Earth. The first time in human history, we will not be the top. And all I know is the best way of dealing with uncertainty is having.

SPEAKER_06 1:34

And according to the mighty internet, your net worth is anywhere between 45 million to 350 million. That's a big I feel like these are a little bit of a broad spectrum, but what we can confirm is that you definitely have been incredibly successful, you've made big wealth, and you made it because of your incredible knowledge. So we are honored to have someone like you share your knowledge and wisdom with the people on the other side who may need financial help. And so what I would love to ask first is if you were to somehow go and be 20 right now in today's times with no money to your name, how would you start your journey with building wealth?

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Really simple. Say this to everybody go and travel. It's not about university, it's not about everything. Travel to complicated places because you learn how to look after yourself, to be adaptable, and you learn how to meet people, and you stop judging people for what you think you're told people are like. If you're traveling through India for six months backpacking, there will be things you'll have, you'll be really ill, you'll have something stolen, you'll have lost something, you'll end up in the middle of a festival of which you don't understand what's going on, or you're in a place where nobody speaks English, or there's food you don't know. All of it teaches adaptability. You feel like, oh my god, I can't do this. And then there's an expression that I always bring up to people, and the whole journey of life is this is your comfort zone, is a Venn diagram with where the magic happens. The issue is they don't overlap. All the magic happens outside your comfort zone.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

And it actually perfectly matches with dating advice because men are told in their 20s to go and become competent because that's what will last them when they're 30 and 40 and they're looking for women. That's competence is needed, and that's exactly what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Not only competence, but confidence.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Exactly, and they come together.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

It's an internal confidence that I can deal with this.

SPEAKER_06 3:36

So, okay, so you go on a trip, you find wisdom, learning from other people's circumstances and the world. You come back, and what do you do from there?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Then it's really about thinking, what do I have to offer? And how does that meet what I want to do? Because a lot of people come out of university, for example, and they've they've done architecture, but they don't want to do that at all. They want to do something else, or whatever it is, right? But the real answer is you need to look where the trend is going. Because like a lot of kids today, a lot of my friends' kids who are at university say, I want to be in finance, I want to work for a hedge fund. And they think that's glamorous if you make money. But it's a shrinking industry. You're fighting against the machines and the AI and regulation, and it's actually a terrible business to be in now. And I say, Well, if you like the idea of investing and you want that fast-paced, pressurized environment where you can make money, go to crypto. The whole new world is much faster. It's growing. So there are net new jobs. It's gonna take your career. So careers are really driven by a secular trend in an industry, and so that's when I say to friends, kids, what do you do, who are in their 20s, early 20s, I say, go and look for something that's growing or something that's the opposite of what people are telling you to do. So, in a world of increasing technology, AI is coming for jobs, it's changing how we do things. What is the equal and opposite? You can either be in that, so you know, the two key trends from that might be crypto and AI and technology, that kind of side, or it might be you know the rise of the space industries, that's a new whole growth area. Or it could be looking after the old population, that's another area, or you could say, well, in a world that is increasingly more digital, the one thing that humans can do is be more human. So if you think about that, what can I do that gets humans together? So you think about maybe the music industry, or maybe you know, if you'll want to be a a tour guide in Costa Rica where you're taking people and showing them retreats. Retreat. Anything that's a human thing is really interesting. You know, we've seen the rise of stuff like yoga and all of this. It's an equal and opposite reaction to everything that's going on. How are you preparing uh for that shift? The only way is to realize it is going to happen, regardless of what you think. And the world will get polarized politically into the I call them the humanists and the transhumanists. Politics for millennia have really been about capital versus labour. The workers versus the owners.

SPEAKER_04 6:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Okay, that's really all of politics, always has been. This fight will get more exacerbated, we're seeing it now, because the workers are already getting nervous of the AI and the robots. But really, in the end, it's gonna be who's gonna go into that journey and and adapt and merge with the technology and who wants to stay in a different world, the previous world. And yeah, I think that is the the big battle of our time. And my view is I'd rather not be the angry old man shaking my fist at the sky saying, I don't want this to happen. Yeah because it is going to happen. There's nothing we can do about it.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

I know, but I I I agree with that because it's it there is this, it puts you in this like very victim type of consciousness where you feel like there's nothing I can do about it. When you accept that this is happening, then you start to problem solve, and like going back to what you said earlier on, you start to think, okay, this is what's gonna happen. Where can I find my place in this and how can I future proof my finances in that sense?

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yourself into the mega trend and don't swim against it. It's the same advice as the career. Yes, the mega trend is absolutely clear. Or if you absolutely want to do the opposite, then go and be the jungle guide in Costa Rica, and that's okay too.

SPEAKER_06 7:54

And that's a actually a very good investment, considering how the world is going. Like, I'm sure there's gonna be a rise of people who go to live in the jungles. Of course. Like, literally will go back to not be part of this AI boom.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

And I saw a lot of this coming, not just from the AI, but how society is fragmenting, and you know, that was one of the reasons I've lived in the Cayman Islands for a long time. I built a house in Little Cayman, which is an island of 140 people. Really? Is that small? Because none of this matters. So I live between Grand Cayman and Little Cayman, but Little Cayman, none of this matters.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

That's so interesting, you do both worlds.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

So the tide goes in, the tide goes out, the sun goes up, the sun goes down, and nothing matters. The robots are not coming for that. So I can throw myself into the world of technology because I can also escape to nature. Nature, I think, becomes at a premium in this world. And the great thing is, as you guys know and I know, is we can now work from anywhere. So we get the choice to be able to have nature and be technologists. Wow. That's incredible. I'd rather do that than just hide here or ignore nature and be there. That balance is a really nice place to be.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

So one of the mistakes people are making today is that they are just going into things that they want to do in terms of career and not thinking, is this gonna help me in 15 years when the world evolves or not? So that's one of the mistakes. What other mistakes are you seeing people typically make when it comes to money?

SPEAKER_01 9:20

The millennial cohort, so that they're now in their mid-30s uh to late 30s. That cohort's gigantic. And they're the ones who graduated or were at school during the financial crisis. Um, and they've lived this whole thing. You know, they were at school, they saw 9-11, then there was the financial crisis, and and they're very scarred by finances, they saw their parents lose their houses, all of this. And that group didn't want to get involved in finance at all, hated it, Occupy Wall Street, hated it all, but then they couldn't get ahead either. So they were kind of stuck, and they were working, but they didn't really enjoy what they were doing. The whole whole world was a bit strange for them, and then in the in the pandemic, given money and time, they just applied their they're the most educated cohort of all time, they just w went and started to learn financial markets and investing. But there was a meme that went around because I think it was an equal and opposite reaction to their parents who had worked so hard as baby boomers, that they didn't want to work as hard.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

And so what became this meme that drives me utterly insane on particularly Instagram is passive income.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Oh my god, yes. Please talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Passive income.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

There's no such thing as passive income. At least not when you're starting out and trying to find passive income sources.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

So what they're trying to do, it drives me insane. So they've driven this whole cohort to say what you need to do is work like a slave for the next 30 years to buy endless houses. That's the meme, really, is the house. To buy endless houses, take more leverage, and you'll get income from these houses. But then they say, oh, but you should use that income to buy another. Nobody actually gets any of the income. A, renting a house, I've done it many times. It is an awful business.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Yeah, we tried it and it's terrible. Yeah, I just want to try to sell it off because it's such a nightmare.

SPEAKER_06 11:22

Yeah. It's a nightmare. And I've tried it. It's a job three, four times.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

It's a job, it's a full-time job. It's a business.

SPEAKER_06 11:28

It's not full-time, but it takes.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

If you wanted it to really turn into something, it's a business. It's not passive.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

I, you know, I was living in Spain, and um near me, near a there was a golf course, and I don't play golf, but I knew people like to go to golf course and stay there, whatever. And it's uh near a beach town. And I th and somebody's building some decent apartments. I thought, you know, I'm gonna buy a couple of these and I'll rent them out. And I rent them out to holidaymakers, and there'll be golfers coming all year round, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think I rented in five years, four years that I own them, I probably rented out for three weeks.

unknown 12:03

Really? Wow.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

That's that's and then you suddenly realize that a lot of the advertisements about how much rental income you get when you see these properties be it's all bullshit. They're idealized. It's idealized and it's not true. Yes, if you get it right in a big city and you know, or a university town and there's demand, yes. The whole issue of that passive income means I don't need to work. And the world does not work that way. Money is a direct input of effort. It doesn't mean you all have to work 14-hour days or whatever, it just means that nothing comes for free. So that cohort really got stuck in this vibe. Diversify your income. Why? Because their parents lost everything. So diversify, be be careful. Um, you know, have these streams of income. Because if you lose your job, think of the mindset, right? You're all driven by your own traumas. If you lose your job, you've got something that will pay your bills. That's what's in their heads. What is the Gen Z? Well, Gen Z are the kids of my generation, the Gen X's. Gen X's are generally rebellious, less compliant to the system, we're kind of more free-spirited. Those kids, in some way, are very different. But what they've done that shocked everybody is they've figured out, looking at the millennials, that the millennials actually can't make enough income to buy a house anymore. And so what they did is they thought of the world as a computer game. I'm just going to press all the buttons, and if I get killed, I'll start again. Speculation made the most sense. I have never seen a group of an age cohort so speculative because everything is a game. Because if you've got nothing, got nothing to lose.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

How is that showing up in habits like actual behavior?

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Actual behavior, they are trading one-day options in technology stocks. They are trading memes 24 hours a day. They're not buying Bitcoin and holding it. They're not that it's not a strategic plan.

SPEAKER_06 14:00

No, it's fart coin to the moon.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

It's fart coin. What's the biggest meme? Can I buy it for three hours? Can I sell it? Can I do this? Can I launch my own coin? Can I get it's like wow, this is the wild west, and that's coming from 20-year-olds. It's hilarious to see, and it's good to see risk taking coming back into the system in different ways. They've got nothing to lose. So they've got everything to gain. It's kind of not stupid. And we've seen the millennials splitting between those who want to create the nest and the passive income and don't touch anything, I don't want this to go wrong, to the others who are like, fuck it, I'm going into this because there's no way I can afford the house. There's no way the kids I've got can ever go to school or university unless I do something. The millennial cohort was the most compliant of all generations. So what they did is they all had their 401k, they did their work tolls. So they've actually got some stability. So then when you've got extra income, you might as well risk it. My cohort you kind of either made it or you didn't. For the baby boomers, don't you they don't have enough savings. The average is skewed by the super rich. The medium baby boomer has$200,000 in their entire life savings pension plan. And if you retire at, let's say, 65 And what a life is that.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

Especially now, today.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

And that's that's no money. That's$10,000 a year.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

Putting into perspective, let's say we have an older couple that has that amount, has no clue about technology or crypto and whatnot. How do you future-proof your retirement? Like, how do you end your life with peace rather than fear of not being able to survive? Like it sounds like a very difficult place to be.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

It's really difficult because you can't magic money, you're gonna take more risk, which is terrifying because at that age. Yeah. And the big problem is I remember this when my dad retired. Is the moment you retire, that's it. That's your pot. The issue is you don't know how long you're gonna live for. Or your wife or husband's gonna live for. And you need to provide for that. So what you do is collapse your expenditure. My dad was a kind of you know, reasonably well-to-do middle class. You know, he'd have his new BMW every few years, and you know, seven series BMW and all of this stuff, and you know, there was always nice wines and stuff in the house. There's the time when middle class was actually able to afford it. That's right. But in the end, in the moment he retired, he realized he hadn't saved that much money because he was buying cars and and um you know having a nice time and going to nice restaurants, and his move to Spain where the life was cheaper, which was a good choice, and then collapsed his expenditure 65%, I think I calculated. Completely changed his lifestyle because that's the next thing you can do. The other thing is there's a the other thing that really irritates me about the finance meme is buy a house and that's your asset. Find me anybody's parent who sold their house and gone to live in a trailer park, zero unless you have to. It is not an asset, it is a lifestyle asset, it is not a financial asset. So, what we're told our whole damn lives is work for this house as an asset.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Yes, that's what I was told repeatedly, repeatedly.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

How is it an asset if you can't sell it? How is that an asset? So you've got no savings, yeah. You're living in this house that you've bought over time.

SPEAKER_06 17:33

And you have to pay for it because you've got to renovate things and things break. So it's not only like No, it's an asset and a liability, but it's not even an asset because you can't sell it.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

So it's just a liability. I do agree that houses give you a sense of security. And you know, I I talk about this a lot. It's like with the uh Gen Z, they've got nothing to lose, so they can take all the risk. Once you own a house and you've paid it off outright, you can take a lot of risk.

SPEAKER_04 18:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Because part of your Maslov's hierarchy of needs needs is met, which is a roof over your head and security, a place to live. So there is a balance in this, but it's not an asset. So if people think I'm saving to buy my house because I'm gonna be rich because my house is now worth a million dollars and I paid$250,000 for it, it's not worth anything. It's worth zero to you.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

So to summarize, we've got not going to just go buy a house and think that that's gonna solve your problems. That's number one. Not thinking that passive income is passive by any means. Not thinking about passion only without thinking about whether or not that is future-proof based on where society is headed. These are the typical mistakes I'm talking about. People are making, right? Because I want them to just be able to be like, okay, that's me.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Particularly millennials, they they drifted for too long. They just drifted. This is like a mindset thing as well. They want to guys did float around the world trying to figure it out. But they didn't figure they didn't figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

You said travel, but they're traveling.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yeah, and I still see them, you know, same in the Cayman Islands, they met and they yeah, they left university, smart kids, they thought they wanted to get away and they got away and they can't come back and don't want to come back. There's no jobs for them. So you have to be very careful about that. Don't overstay that opportunity to travel.

SPEAKER_06 19:30

I actually wanted to ask on that because I wonder if you would if you would agree with the statement that we really are experiencing unprecedented times currently when it comes to investing. Yeah. Whether crypto or stock market, like I've been investing for quite a while, and what's happening on the stock market, because I trade on the stock market more than in the crypto. I have never seen markets be this volatile daily, like it can go up and down all the time, and there's so many companies that are so over their PE ratio, and people are buying in.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

And I wonder anyone doesn't understand what the price is to earnings.

SPEAKER_06 20:12

So the stock is basically going at like a super high premium, so you pay like a lot, and some companies can justify that simpler, some companies can justify that because they have incredible product, but other companies they'll just say, Oh, like we're gonna buy ETH, and the ETH is gonna be we're gonna just gonna be what MicroStrategy is doing, but we'll do it differently. And there was so many of these companies. So I wonder, do you think the reason for what's happening right now is because retail investors are having more and more power in a sense that it has never been this easy to become a retail investor? There's so many apps, so many people get sucked into the retail investing, and they follow the FOMO. So it's not like big institutions. There's a lot of stocks that are exploded have very little institutional ownership, but the retail is driving it. So is the ability of regular people to invest driving the markets unhealthily?

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Yes, there's a massive amount of retail participation, and it's good. I've seen it once before in the 90s when the internet came, and we saw that time it was the baby boom cohort when they went, let's go and speculate on all of this. Great, but why is this all happening? Why are young people speculating? Why is the market like this? Why is crypto so fast adopted? And you know, it's the f crypto, for example, is the fastest growth of any asset class and any technology the world has ever seen, twice the speed of the internet, is now being superseded by AI. And crypto came from a very specific thing. It came from the financial crisis and the fact that. The debt-laden world had gone too far. And we knew it was unsustainable. And so whoever Satoshi Nakamoto was, or whoever they were, came up with an idea of a money that was outside the system. And we kind of memed a two trillion dollar asset into existence. We memed it.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Yeah, but it's the belief that's only belief. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

If not, it's just a bit of code. But we believed it. Like a shiny gold metal is just a belief.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

But that's what money is as well, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Exactly. Just a social consensus of what should maintain and store value. What had really happened is it's actually the story of demographics. After World War II, we saw the largest population increase in all of recorded history, and that's the baby boomers. In the US alone, there were 76 million of them. Now, right now you say, yeah, but there's 85 million millennials. Yeah, but the population in the United States was a third of the size. So it was a huge cohort and it was everywhere. That cohort's driven the entire financial system forever. But as they started getting older, they started having an impact on the economy. Firstly, when they came into jobs for the first time when they were in their 20s, they created a massive wave of people buying their first house, their first car, their first suit, their first tie, their first TV, their first everything, all at the same time. Then these guys get into their 30s, and guess what happens? We need to save money. Wall Street, massive wave. It's all the demographic wave of them. Then it's they start getting into retirement and they're leaving the workforce. And leaving the workforce suddenly to keep the economy running, debt starts becoming a big thing from that financialization of the past to debt. And that debt thing starts slowing down the economy. These people are leaving, and so you use more debt to pump up the economy, and that's what happened everywhere. So to manage that debt, by 2008, the world blew up, and we'd got too far in debt. And the only way of managing the debt was a little trick, which was like, you know what? Nobody has to pay interest rates. So imagine a mortgage with no interest payments. That's what everybody got, every government. And they basically got that for about five years when nobody had to pay interest. So what they were doing was allowing people to repair their balance sheet. And every four years on average, we have to roll all of that debt because you have to turn it out again. And to manage all of this, we've printed money. Basically you print money and then pay your debts with it with it.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah. And so what people don't realise is the value, the purchasing power of your money is going down. And if your purchasing power is going down, then each year you can afford less of that house you're trying to get to, and less of that house, and less of that house. So by example, when I was 25, I bought my first house, 24, 25, something like that. And it was an apartment in London, really nice, kind of two bed, nice square, nice area. I was working in investment banking, so I had a decent salary, but I wasn't the highest paid guy in the world, and it was three and a half times my income.

SPEAKER_06 25:10

Yearly income?

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Yearly.

SPEAKER_06 25:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

And that was maybe it was four times. And I was like, bloody hell, this is expensive. And now if I would look the same as a 25-year-old investment banker, look at that apartment 10, 12 times. Wow. So now you've got this situation where the value of your earnings grows only with the growth of the economy, GDP growth. So they're not going up a lot. 3% a year if you're staying in the same job and you're not getting promoted. Meanwhile, the things you want to buy, assets, which are future deferred consumptions, there's something you lock money in, so then later you can realise it for your retirement or whatever. Passive income. Passive income. And so this is going up by 8% a year at least, which is the debasement of currency. It's a scarce asset. Your income is going up 2% a year, 3% a year. So every year you're getting poorer until you have no hope whatsoever. If you're Gen Z, the only hope you have is rich parents. Or you can take as much risk as you can. So the speculation, firstly, the P ratio. Most of the market P ratio, people go, it's so expensive. They don't understand. P goes up because of debasement. The E goes up with the economy. So every year it's going to keep getting further and further apart until we sort this out. We can talk about that later. In a speculative period, you get a bunch of bullshit as well. So you have to separate out the reality and the bullshit. And then Robin Hood in about 2017, 18, um, created this kind of perfect app with behavioural incentives to allow people to trade. People didn't care. They only cared where they got given money, locked at home, and said, Well, the financial market's the biggest video game that I know. And hey, I might be able to make some money here. That will well the expression I use is unfuck my future. And they all took it and said, I'm I need to unfuck my future because I cannot buy a house, I cannot do anything, I can't live like this. So speculation became a way, the only way out. There was literally no other way out. Couldn't earn the way out. That happens, the rise of crypto gives people a new way that also plays into the narrative of Occupy Wall Street. We don't want the institutions, we don't want them to do this. And it creates a self-fulfilling prophecy where the world starts migrating across to these things. We've got two of the largest secular investment trends in all of history playing out in front of our eyes. The rise of technology, which has not stopped. Everybody's called it a bubble for as long as I've been in my career, and the rise of crypto, which is even faster. So if you think about it, the SP 500, on average, since 2012, has made 12% a year, something like that. 13% a year. So 8% is debasement. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:57

But what you're really making is very low.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

And then there's about inflation, so the cost of stuff that you buy, the regular stuff. You're about 11%. You're basically making no money. Nasdaq, 18%. Okay, bit better. Bitcoin, 145%. It's only logical.

SPEAKER_06 28:14

Why do you think people are still so skeptical of crypto, the ones who are scared? Because it's very clear that crypto changed. Yeah. And I wonder if you you see it the same way. Because what I've noticed over the past few years, and it's really the most strong, just the last year, to be honest, I have never seen such a strong correlation of trends between crypto and stock market.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

The basement explains 97% of all of the Nasdaq and 85% of all of crypto's price movements. It's the same trend.

SPEAKER_06 28:48

But crypto was built under premise of decentralized currency. So what would used to happen? I remember I had some crypto and some in the stock market. And I'm on a run and I receive like a notification, so I check. I see stock market is going down like crazy. Something's crashing, and I open my crypto portfolio and it's going up. And that was the tendency of feeling like the crypto was kind of like gold against inflation. But nowadays I feel like crypto is so strongly tied to the stock market that both when the stock market goes down, crypto goes down as well.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

It is complicated, but really most of the time it's driven by the same mega trend, the debasement of currency. And it's driven by sentiment. If you strip out Bitcoin and say the rest of crypto, it's just a technology. So of course it moves like a technology stock. Just overlay the price of Ethereum versus Tesla, they look the same. Everything has become one bet. It's the future or the past. It almost doesn't matter. So you know, I used to run as a hedge fund manager and even as an advisor, big, broad, diversified portfolios. You know, emerging markets, a bit of bonds, a bit of this, a bit of that. I now hold a very, very concentrated portfolio because it's all the same bet. And the bet is basically are they going to print money? They have to. Is tomorrow going to be more digital than today? That's it. It's a simple, the most simple investment thesis of all time. It's now my job to choose the best performing asset. I don't even need diversification. I'm gonna have some. Now, this is not for everybody. I kind of know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

Tell us when it's not for people. Because a lot of people hear you speak and they're just like, it's crazy to them that you've gone all in on crypto. But you have good reason for it because you also have assets and you've kind of sorted yourself out in other ways.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

So I can take the risk. I've got income, right? Income is the powerful thing. I've got income. I've run you know three businesses, I've got um income coming in, and I don't have any debt. But I'm seeing the greatest trade of all time. This is it. And it has been for quite a while now, for almost a decade. And I didn't realize until it all came together in my head what was driving this trend. And I wrote this thing called the Everything Code that I've done a lot of videos on, trying to explain to people what this is all about, that I realized it's all one bet. Yes, I might have a few positions, but really it's a crypto with a bit of side betting technology, and that's it. So people say, well, this is irresponsible, Rao. How can you tell people to do this? Well, what's irresponsible? To you to not be able to buy a house or for you to take some risk. So you have to learn how to take risk. That's the whole point of what we built at RealVision. It's like, how do you learn to take risk? Well, in the past, again, cohorts have changed. The my generation, we learnt by learning. We would go and read everything and read research and try and figure it out. It's now got to the millennials were somewhere in the middle, they love studying, but they kind of video centric generation. Gen Z is like, show me the trade, I'll figure it out, and if I lose money, I'll try again. It's the video game generation. Wow, the whole world has changed. And then the other thing, what happens is everyone's like, I get it now. I get it, yeah, crypto. I'm gonna buy some Bitcoin. And they buy some and it goes up, and they buy some, it goes up, and then it falls 60%. And they're like, This is ridiculous, it's too volatile. And you've like, I've explained to you every single day that you'll have to deal with this, and now when it happens, you say, I can't deal with this. This is stupid, I've lost all my money, how dare you? What terrible device? And you're like, no, the answer is you buy more. Is tomorrow going to be more digital than today? Is Bitcoin gonna go away yes or no? The answer is no, you'd have to have a very strong reason to say yes. If it's no, then you buy more and you'll compound your wealth really fast. DCA is the answer. It is, and yet, I see it, but people have to go through the journey. You have to learn to take risk. Because we were, again, different age cohorts, but the millennials were pretty much molly cuddled that nothing could go wrong, they could win a trophy for everything they did, all of that. And you have to learn that it comes with risk, there is no passive income.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

I do get it, because I I feel like I was definitely part of the generation. I'm I'm literally the year where I could either be millennial or I could be Gen Z. So that's me. I'm somewhere in between, I feel like I'm a bit more millennial. But here's the thing: I would see this people traveling and nomading around, and I'm like, that's cool. I could do that too. Not realizing what it takes. And now I'm blessed, we, you know, are successful, but most of my friends look at my lifestyle not realizing how much work I've put into the lifestyle that I've created.

SPEAKER_06 33:43

There's nothing passive about what you do.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

Like we live and breathe and work all the time.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

The amount of travel you guys do. And everyone says that's glamorous. We were in an office building in Dallas to express.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

I didn't even see anything. No, but it's I I see why that's that's um like frustrating to you. One thing that you mention is that ability people need to have to ride the wave emotionally when it goes down, when it goes up. When we watched your podcast, um, one of the reasons one of the other guests uh had said crypto should not be the way is because people cannot handle the downward trend, right? Which which to me, I I personally think that's ridiculous. As you said, we should teach people how to handle it.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

It irritates me when somebody thinks that they have a right to save people, you can't own the best performance. Exactly. That's so rude. That's just rude. I mean, really? What you say to them is listen, you need to think about this. Don't put too much of your money into it. Learn how it feels like when it goes down a lot. Look at your emotions when it goes up a lot. Are you starting to take leverage? Are you starting to think, I don't want Bitcoin, I want to go out into these memes because they're gonna watch your emotional behavior and learn. But nobody has the right to say, sorry, you shouldn't invest in the best performing asset class of all time. In all recorded history, no asset has ever performed like this, but no, no, you're you're not worthy of it.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Uh-uh. That's the same as the financial system did with venture capital, with all of the stuff. They said, well, unless you're an accredited investor, unless you're worth a million dollars, you're not clever enough to do this.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

Which is, yeah, not true.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Which is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 35:26

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

And what that was it was all about gatekeeping.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

And I think in some ways it actually boils down to people's ability to regulate their emotions.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Always is.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

It really is that. And I think for better or for I mean, definitely for better, our generation's talking a lot about how to regulate your emotions. Like, we are now more equipped than ever to realize how do you regulate stress, blah, blah, blah. So how do you regulate? Whenever you go up and down, what what do you do?

SPEAKER_01 35:53

The Gen Z generation did it in a different way. We just shut up and took it.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

What makes you hodl?

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Because my job is to live into the future. If the future's there, I don't really care if the path is there, there, there, there, there, there. If it's going there, that's what you do. So it's conviction. And belief. It's conviction, belief, and then you can't blindly have conviction, pick some random crypto and say, this is gonna be the most important thing. You need to prove it. And sure, you might buy it at first, but you're gonna have to prove that it's getting adoption, that people are using it, building use cases on it, that you know, all of those things. You're gonna have to prove that your conviction is valid. And so I don't mind if you do it, let me do the homework first and find something that that has the hallmarks of what could be a high-quality investment. Or you say, I'm gonna buy something first and then figure out if it's the right one, and if not, I'll switch. Okay, that's two different methodologies. That's Gen X versus Gen Z. But you can't do it without homework, without understanding, because there's no such thing as a free lunch. And if not, you'll buy stupid shit and you'll lose your money.

SPEAKER_06 37:05

We are on the same mission as you've been for so long with Real Vision. Like what we would want is not to talk to more people who are already successful so they can do even better, because they know what they're doing. It's to bring people who are scared but are in a position that's very difficult. And one thing that I've learned this year that's just been revolutionary for trading is the ability to literally talk to AI. You have your financial advisor, which by the way is much better than financial advisor, because you can literally take a screenshot of your trade that may look as complicated as it is, throw it in ChatGPT, and the only thing you need to remember is that ChatGPT is not good with numbers, it makes silly mistakes sometimes. But it will explain you exactly what is happening in front of your eyes. And so it used to be that you had to, and it's still advised to read books, that you had to spend a long time in your times when you were hedging, for example, to really learn. You had to be like a real deal passionate financial person. Nowadays you can learn in two months some skills that used to be gate locked for so long, right? And soon you won't even have to learn.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 38:20

AI will do it. But that's my fear. What if AI is able to trade better than humans and it can predict the trends, will it de-evaluate everything?

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Well, the everything code is that is that whole demographic issue that ended up with the debt, ended up with where we are today, ended up with cryptocurrency, ended up with these four-year cycles that we're seeing. How long does it go and where does it go? Well, I I think at the end of all of this, the problem of slow slow growing economies is because economic growth is driven by population growth, productivity growth, and debt growth. We blew up debt growth in 2008, so that leaders that stopped. We were using that to bolster this aging economy that was slowing. So the forward projections of all population in pretty much all of the Western world is one way downhill. Most countries are now shrinking in population. Maybe in about five or six or seven years, we're going to start having infinite population. The AI and the robots. They're smarter than us, better than us. We're going to have a new apex creature in on Earth. And it's not us. For the first time in human history, we will not be the top. Once you get to about 2030, 2032, what are financial markets? How do you think or me think I'm going to outperform AGI, which is the smartest thing that we've ever known? How can any web business ever be built and have a moat when the AI can copy it in seconds? So I build something, I see yours, say copy here. No, I've actually got my agent just saying look for the best thing that's being adopted and build one immediately. What the hell is that? Every business becomes a meme coin. Now we've got a massive velocity of business development and destruction driven by AI agents, of which we're not really part of that economic engine, a complexity of where the world is going because GDP growth can be 20% because of all of the new population and the productivity, and there may be no humans accruing it. Where do we fit into all of this world? What does all this mean? What we live, longevity sciences are going to take us to live forever in a world that we don't even know what's coming into. Right, so all I know is my whole life has been living in the future, and I can kind of see where it's going because we've got some long-term trends like demographics, you can kind of figure out a lot of this stuff. It is a black curtain beyond about 2032. I call it the economic singularity. We have no idea how anything's gonna work, and anybody who tells you they do is lying. So I think, okay. I don't mind, I like to have an event horizon, something to aim for. So we know that's coming, whether it's 2030, 2032, 2034, doesn't matter. That's the world we're going to. We're gonna see a lot of polarization of people. The humanists, the transhumanists. We don't know what any of us will do except be human, because that's the only thing we can do that the AGI can't be. So we've got about five years to unfuck our futures. You have five years to take advantage of this trend. Make as much money as you can, and then you can go in on the front foot and take the risk of, hey, let's see what this world is all about. But if you don't, if you don't, if you say I'm not gonna invest, I can't, I just it's too difficult for me, you're gonna go into that horizon, that event horizon, with no security whatsoever to deal with the greatest change humanity and civilization has ever gone through. And we're about to go through it. Um that's all I keep saying to people. It's like it's not a I know it sounds like a horror story. I'm not, I'm an optimist.

SPEAKER_03 42:02

Yeah. Actually it doesn't sound horrifying when you when you speak because I you you're like You could just say what is highly probable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Yeah, it's highly probable. And all I know is gets improbable out there, i.e., I don't know. And all I know is the best way of dealing with uncertainty is having some security to start with.

SPEAKER_06 42:20

And thinking outside of the box is essential in a situation like this because you cannot apply old school thinking of how people used to make security. Because I feel like for people who are from different generations, almost always the horizon was I'm gonna retire when I'm old. Right? We don't even know what old means.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

We don't know what old is exactly. And on top of that, we have enough money in a world of no old. What the fuck does that mean? That's actually so true. I haven't thought I hadn't even mentioned this before, but this is a what the fuck does that mean? If you follow the trend rate of adoption for crypto, it's gonna go to 100 trillion by 2032. So uh these are big numbers. You throw 100 trillion, it's like okay, 25x from here. More than that, it's 96 trillion of wealth you're about to create, and it's distributed wealth to anybody who wants it. You cannot be a gatekeeper in a decentralized ledger and a technology that's decentralized and global and built across the internet. So there is no excuse to the person who said I didn't get access. I couldn't be the VC, I couldn't buy the real estate. You've got it, it's here. This is the greatest democratic, egalitarian, capitalist opportunity the world has ever been given. And people are gonna get cynical and sneer at it or say, I don't want to do it, I don't understand it. And so all I'm trying to do is help as many people in that. Um, and that that that is why this is so important. Because not only is A system of money. It's a new system of the layer to the internet. It's what the internet needed to be. Because in the future world, our data is going to become important. Right now, we are being monetized via Google, Facebook, and everything else for our attention. We've built businesses on the attention economy. Fine. But me as a viewer, I get the information that you guys provide, but and you get some of the advertising revenue, but Google makes the whole sum. In the future, in a world where we don't know where jobs are, we'll be paid for our attention and the things that we do and the communities that we join and the value we add to that. So there's a whole world of the internet that becomes what's known as web two is read and write. You can write articles, you'll read them, videos. Read, write, and own is when you own your assets in a digital world. And you can extract and exchange value, including your own identity, attention, everything else. So it's a really, really big thing, and it's going to create income, it's going to create equity and investment opportunity for all of us on a globalized basis. We're used to businesses that like sell water. And you sell more water and the word gets out and you pay for advertising, it grows. Okay, and the share price does this over time. But then there were these businesses like Facebook and Google, and they just exploded, and everyone's like, there's a bubble, and then it will come down, and then it will go back up again. We're like, what the hell is this? Took us a long time to understand. Never trade at the right PE ratios. These are always expensive. And I didn't understand that. I didn't understand it. And then until I was doing the work on crypto, and then I understood all of it. Is this driven by Metcalf's law? These are networks. So a network is infinitely more valuable than a just a regular business. Because in the network, it's all of the people involved in the network create value for the network. So in a social media network, we're all posting content. That has infinite more value than just me posting content. And then if you can build an advertising business on top, you build another layer of value. If I can sell my research on top of that, I've got another layer of value. And the more layers of value times the number of people is what makes these things incredibly valuable. Because it's not just the value of point A to point B, it's all of the activity on this vast network. That's what crypto is, that's what these technology stocks are, and that's what drives all of this. Once you see that, you just keep looking for that. And usually you see insane valuations and things early, and you have to ask yourself, is it badly mispriced? And many of them are, or am I not understanding that the market is already realizing that this is a network? And it's what's weird is price actually for cars. Yeah, it kind of does information that the market may not realize, but it's in the price. Tesla's been one of those forever. How can a car company be a network? How can a bookseller be a network? Well, Amazon, that was just a proof of concept. What it ended up being was one of the largest networks of all. It was basically the network of goods.

SPEAKER_06 47:18

They are first on the list of all the Mic 7 when it comes to spending on AI. They're spending so much money that they're double the Meta and Google.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

They now employ more robots than humans, yeah. Already. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. And it's happening so quietly. That's right. And then with Tesla, people slice a car company. No. And it's like, no, no, you don't understand. It's the whole energy grid from technology to the robotics to the AI. It's like a gigantic logistics network that is all connected, including satellites. They happens to have parts in different businesses, but it is all connected in a giant network. Um there was a business that a crypto business that went public called Circle, which is a stablecoin. And it trades at crazy valuations. And I was thinking it's either because everybody's wrong, or the market is realizing that there'll be a network built on this. And we don't know yet, it's too early to tell, but you just need to ask those questions to yourself.

SPEAKER_06 48:19

What do you say to the statement that Donald Trump is going to try to use crypto to remove the debt?

SPEAKER_01 48:28

You can't without collapsing the US dollar. You can have some investment in the in crypto, but you can't. You cannot jump immediately to a parallel financial system without destroying the last. And I've always said since I got into crypto in 2013, it's a parallel financial system we've built, the one that we needed, and we're going to abandon the one we broke.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

And if you try and jump too fast, you'll collapse everything. So you can't. But over time, it will happen. And the more the government accepts it, the more people move across, migrate to this new world. And it's in it's it's basically a new world.

SPEAKER_03 49:04

Which is already happening.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Yeah, at scale. There's 950 million active wallets in crypto now. That doesn't mean it's 950 million users.

SPEAKER_03 49:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

But 950 million wallets, when I took the if I take it from 5 million active wallets, whenever that was 2014 or so, and compare it to the internet at 5 million IP addresses, roughly the same thing. We've all got many IP addresses.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

Oh, that's so smart of looking at it that way.

SPEAKER_01 49:29

Uh it's grown at twice the speed of the internet all the way through. You mentioned wallets.

SPEAKER_06 49:34

For people who really are not savvy, would you say in today's times it is better for them to get into something like Robinhood or crypto.com or really learn about the wallet stuff.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

First start and do it the easiest possible way. Open a Coinbase account, a Robinhood account, whatever, just buy some crypto. Any exchange. And then what will happen is as the number goes up or down, you'll want to learn more. You'll end up watching some podcasts, and you'll be on crypto Twitter where everybody hangs out and starts talking about this stuff, and you'll see things like not my key um keys, not my coins. You're like, what does that mean? Yeah. And then you'll see, you know, people calling about cold wallets and hot wallets. You're like, what the hell? Diamond hands.

SPEAKER_05 50:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

And you'll realize over time that, okay, so you can buy this stuff, great, and participate. You can buy it in equities by buying an ETF. You can buy Ethereum or Solana and put it into your Coinbase account or your Robin Hood account. Or you can go one stage or the other because you learn that actually Robin Hood almost went under back in 2021. Maybe I can sort myself.

SPEAKER_03 50:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

And then it's like, well, I can sort my computer, but I don't have much money in it. I've got a couple of grand and and then somebody goes, Oh shit, I saw people get hacked. Because it can sort of scary world out there. And then you realize you can have a hardware device like a ledger. And now you can cross borders, you could travel the world with your entire net worth. And nobody can get into it. And you're like, oh my god, that's financial freedom. Then you get to the point where you've made enough money, it's like, oh shit, if I get caught with this.

SPEAKER_05 51:21

Yeah. And then you start thinking. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

And then it's like, oh my God, somebody puts a gun to my head for that. Right, I need to change all of that again and figure out a different system, which is called multi-sig wallets. Yeah. Um so but there is a whole journey, but it's a it's super powerful, it's self-custody. Nobody can stop you owning it. They can't. They banned it in China, they banned it in India. They've tried, you cannot stop anybody from buying it, selling it, transferring it.

SPEAKER_03 51:48

That's what I love about crypto.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 51:51

Yeah, you get agency and you feel like accountable for your own finances, as opposed to thinking like, okay, if the banks collapse, if this happens, you still own your money.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

You know what? Go back to the Occupy Wall Street. You've now firmly got your finger up at the institution.

SPEAKER_03 52:06

Yes, that's what feels most fun.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

I don't need you.

SPEAKER_03 52:09

Yes, I know, I love it.

SPEAKER_06 52:11

You don't need them, you just don't need them. So on that, I wonder there's this whole concept for people who want to safely manage their money that they use ledgers. No, they use financial advisors. The famous 5% a year advisors. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

Oh my gosh. To get them 5% returns a year.

SPEAKER_06 52:31

I mean a lot of financial advisor giving.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

Yeah, all IV insurance plans, you know, that's if you like. No, it drives me insane. It's all it's all a product, and they're all making commission. Yeah. I don't give a shit about you, your outcomes, and they certainly don't if they're offering you five to eight percent. But five to eight percent shows how it's actually not easy to make returns. So you're better off just to buy the Nasdaq in an ETF, by the QQQs, go to the beach, come back in 20 years, you'll be fine. Well, we've got to get through that economic singularity. So let's assume you come back and there's no humans anymore. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 53:08

We're gonna speak to you in 2031 again.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Yeah. So, okay, you can you can do that. You're paying virtually no fees and you're playing this trend. But you're now gonna feel responsible when your portfolio goes down because before you can blame somebody else. Yes. My advisor did a bad job. Now it's like, oh, I need to understand this volatility to go back, my own psychology of what this is all about. I don't think that's a bad thing. So, yes, people should do that. Or they can really take it into their own hands and then say, okay, how am I gonna do this properly? And some of that's just a function of time. So a lot of people say, I don't have time to manage this. Then just buy, just open a Robin Hood account, buy QQQ, that's like three clicks through that entire thing, and then it's done.

SPEAKER_06 53:49

Or DCA. And then buy some every month.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

People need to understand what DCA is. You just set it up.

SPEAKER_03 53:54

You guys just explain it. Dollar cost average, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:56

So what it's really says, I I'd go one stage further than DCA. For most people, the dollar cost average is just like your 401k or your pension plan. It comes out, it should come out of your wage every month, and it goes into your investment for your future. That's all it is. It's a it's a different word for the same thing. Uh, but you get to choose what you're doing it, and you might want to do it in crypto. The magic is when the market falls, you're buying on the way down as well. And so you end up kind of lowering the average entry of your portfolio and you're able to drive it. The other way of doing it is you DCA, but if you have extra savings, when the markets do have these sharp falls that ever happen every four years where they go down 50, 60, 70 percent, you then go all in and put extra money in. And what you find is, and I found this, and I've done every way of doing a crypto bull market. I found that that just adding as much as you can when everybody thinks it's going to zero, as long as it's a quality asset, you're not doing something stupid, um, you just compound your your return so much faster when the money goes up. So your PL's at new highs well before the market is because you bought a whole bunch of cheap stuff earlier. And so that that gives you real confidence. So it's not it's literally not that complicated. Yeah. There's a whole industry called Wall Street that's out there to make it sound complicated, so you pay them money.

SPEAKER_03 55:28

Yeah, you know, I think about I think about my mom, because my mom is a single mom. She raised me, and she worked in the airline, so a lot of shift work, and sh she was just away most of the time, and then when she was home, she was asleep. So she really didn't have time. And she also didn't have, we didn't have crypto back then. But my mom would painstakingly take like a little bit of money out of her monthly salary and put it aside and give it to this insurance guy to hopefully safeguard our future, to only find out today. And my mom loves this do not trust any insurance guy. They took my money away. But today I think of all the other single moms that have such an advantage to really turn their lives around and change their narrative if they were to just learn about crypto, at least at its very basic level. Because, like you said, all you need to do is download an app, learn the basics, look at like the really future-proof assets and coins, and you're good to go. It's gonna go up over and over again. It will go down, but if you keep holding for years to come, it will go up.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

People say, How do I start? And you say Bitcoin, and they say, but it's$120,000. And you say, well, you can buy a bit of it.

SPEAKER_06 56:44

You can buy the little pieces.

SPEAKER_01 56:45

You can buy it. But I can buy a whole Dogecoin. Why not buy 10 of those instead? Right, okay, we got this whole learning to go through. What is a network that has full adoption? What is going on? But the other truth is Bitcoin at$150,000, at$120,000. Let's say by the end of this cycle it goes up to$250,000, doubles. Right? Anybody sticking their first$2,000,$1,000 of savings in says, I don't care. It doesn't make a difference. And this is even more extreme to show how bad the situation is. It literally doesn't make a difference.

SPEAKER_05 57:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:22

It makes a difference if you've got a lot of money in it and it doubles in a year. That's stupid returns. That's insane, yeah. But for young kids, it's irrelevant.

SPEAKER_00 57:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

So then you're like, okay, so you're gonna have to go further out the risk curve. Solano, well, if Bitcoin doubles, will it go up 3x? And they're like, okay, well, so what am I gonna do with my$3,000 now? So they're like, what I want is$50,000. And then they go wildly out the risk curve and they either lose it, but they're kind of prepared for that, or they figure out how to trade memes and high risk and early stage and stuff like that. But those returns are there. Yeah. But they're not, it becomes infinitely harder. A hundred percent return becomes relatively easy, which is a bizarre for me to say that, while a uh the 50x return is there.

SPEAKER_06 58:11

Isn't it fascinating from this standpoint that statistically 90% retail investors lose money when they get in investment?

SPEAKER_01 58:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 58:19

Why is that? We speak speak about how actually it's not so complicated, and yet we see that nine out of ten people and I know why as well.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

So the best performing clients of a brokerage house consistently, everywhere in the world, are dead people.

SPEAKER_03 58:40

Yeah. Don't do anything.

SPEAKER_01 58:43

Humans are conceited, ego-driven, idiots who become greedy and fearful. The emotional regulation. So what happens is I'm not making enough money, he's making money, I'm gonna copy him, and I so now you're overtrading. So really it becomes it becomes betting. And gambling is is less structured than investing. You can be a good gambler, there are good gamblers, um, but generally speaking, most people who gamble lose money because there's unstructured hope as opposed to thinking about it. But the other thing is simple things like an index fund, which sounds so boring. An index fund in the Nasdaq, yeah, if you were to buy the Nasdaq and the Bitcoin ETF and went away, you'd outperform pretty much every single hedge fund in the world over the next 10 years, and pretty much every single uh mutual fund or other investment you would do. Can you explain what ETF is? ETF is is a share. So if you think of the S ⁇ P file, the Nasdaq, it's a Nasdaq 100. It's uh it's an index of a hundred uh of a hundred technology companies in the United States, and so obviously it it's driven by technology trends, which is why it outperforms things like oil companies and electricity companies and you know just things that the normal business car companies so NASDAQ, okay, Tesla's in the NASDAQ because it's a technology company, so it tends to go up a lot, and there's a hundred companies in it. So I could say to you, buy the NASDAQ 100, and you're like, Well, but it the weight of each stock changes every day, and there's a hundred of these things, and I have to go on my Robin Hood and do this all day. Right? No, you just buy something called the QQQ, that's the ticker symbol, and it's a basket of all of these, perfectly weighted at all times, and it's one equity. So it's just a one-click, one commission, low commission on Robin Hood, and you're done.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:43

Super simple.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

Super simple. Now with the Bitcoin ETF, I bit or whichever variation of it, it's what they've done is like that was a basket of stocks. Well, this is a cryptocurrency that's wrapped by an equity stock. So now, if you're not comfortable opening a wallet and or buying it and opening a Coinbase account, you can go to Robin Hood, press IBIT, click buy done. It's the same as buying a share. Okay, that is not complicated.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:15

No barrier to do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

Nobody has an excuse. Yeah, you're like, well, I'm I'm it's too much risk for me, I don't know what to do. I kind of get stocks, but I'll get crypto. Just buy 50% of each of those. And you'll be fine.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:31

I think realizing that the biggest risk people can take today is take no action.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:37

Is really what people need to understand. Because it's one thing to be like, oh, I'm gonna, I don't know if this crypto thing works, while literally all it would take sometimes for people is to spend like, take one Saturday off and do some research. And you'll see so much data proving so strongly that entire governments are pumping so much money into crypto. So if you have governments, you have investors, you have companies, every smart, intelligent, financially intelligent person owns some crypto. So people need to understand that it's so risky to just hope that your employer will sort you out when you're older.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

And let's go back to the psychology. So you've you said, okay, I want to unfuck my future, I'm gonna do something about it. What's the first step? It's not passive income. It's I need to buy, let's say, this basket of this two shares, the the uh Bitcoin ETF and the NASDAQ. Okay, I'm in it now. I can now use some of my income and dollar cost average. Okay, I'm now in the game, I know what I'm doing, I've set up my own 401k, I didn't have to pay anybody. Wow. Now, if I want to make it tax-free, I can do that by putting it into my 401k, literally. So you've got Roth RA, whatever they're called, different things in different countries. So now you have one job after that, it's how do I increase my income? That's it. That's the two mechanisms. Yeah. Increase my income, stick it in the thing that goes up. Increase my income, stick it in the thing that goes up. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:08

And hold it, don't sell it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

Hold it and don't sell it until you need to for lifestyle. Because that's the game we're in. It's not the game of having money, it's the game of lifestyle accretion. Whether it is the house or the place you want to move to or you want to have a kid or a family, whatever it's all lifestyle things. So the the the ratchet is the lifestyle goals, the money is the means of access. Because money is no purpose on its own, it's just a purpose for that. And then it's like, how do I drive my income? And the income is is okay, let's say you're working as a nurse in a hospital. You're working long hours, exhausted all the time. Yeah, I get it. But you're gonna have to work a second income. I mean, I've got four jobs. Why? Because this is the best time alive to get earn income and invest it. And they're all related to the same thing, and I'm building value in those businesses, so I have equity value over time as well. So not only when you build your own business, you can have this other magic, which is actually has equity value. So you could sell it to somebody eventually, and it gives you income. Okay, now we're talking because then that bit adds to that bit in the end. So now you're compounding wealth.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:29

Stick into what you enjoy doing is very important in this case. Because what it sounds to me like with you, I once heard you say about a guy, you know, who bought Bitcoin for two million dollars, and Bitcoin was at like a hundred dollars, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

No, it was three dollars. And he bought two million dollars. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:50

So you said about him, and you said that he basically doesn't do anything that much anymore, no businesses, because nothing can outperform his Bitcoin business. So I wonder how does it apply to you? Because you don't need to do this. I'm pretty sure when it was 2014 and you were going out of real vision, it wasn't something that uh you couldn't predict that you're gonna get backlash from people, you're gonna get people hate you for like saying, Oh, like this is scam, you're a scammer, because people used to see crypto and scam was the same world, right? So you you could have easily stayed at the beach, lived a simple life, however, or not simple, but network. Why do you do this for others?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:37

So I had semi-retired and I was writing Global Macro Investor. So I was still involved in the hedge fund finance ultra smart people community. I was living in a beach town in Spain, I was bored. No intellectual capital, no excitement. People aren't building anything, they're building apartments.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:56

Did you say intellectual capital?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:59

Yeah, that's what we. We 'cause we love that we get to spend about half the year in Bali, but it lacks um because people are chilling there.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:07

And then you go back to Singapore and it's vibrant, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:09

But Singaporeans Dubai, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:11

Singaporeans, Dubai, they get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:13

You know, the US gets it. Why is Texas where we are today so successful? It's because people are engaged. You know, that they they're engaged in business. What is Silicon Valley about? It's the largest density of intellectual capital on earth. What was Wall Street? Wall Street was the largest density of intellectual capital on earth. So that is actually incredibly rewarding. The network that I've managed to build out of Realvision and Global Macro Investor and all of these things is fantastic. I get all sorts of opportunities to do amazing things and talk to interesting people. Even this conversation wouldn't have happened if I unless I'd done that. And so it's another life experience that you have. You have this great conversation, and so that's what it's all about. It's that, and you can help people. So why the hell not? You know, my other thing, you know, I always dreamt about, I was gonna go and save tigers in India because I love wildlife. But if you can save humanity as well as part of this, why not? That's kind of wild. And maybe I can try and save, you know, the the the nature of Little Cayman, which is you know a pristine environment and it should not be destroyed. Um, yeah, why not? Because what else are you gonna do? Because that guy, I didn't feel so happy to me right now. I don't know how many tens of billions he's worth. And I've known him for a long time, he was the happiest man I knew.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:35

I have been fortunate enough to meet a lot of people who are very wealthy, and not everyone is healthy happy either.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:41

No, no. Wealth is not happy.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:43

Wealth is not happiness. Like I see people like filthy rich and miserable, and they wear that misery like a badge of honor. Yeah, you know, and so for people who are figuring out, is there like a metric to figure out how much money you actually need? Or like how do you because I heard you speak in in another podcast, and we started off today as well with like knowing where you're headed, right? Having that vision of like what is the life you want to create, so then then you can work towards it. So how do we find a sweet spot?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

Okay, part of it, I think almost provably so, happiness is basically how far am I from my vision of my future self. We all have a model in our heads. I want to have this relationship with my parents, this relationship, I want to have this housing, I want to be living in this environment. That I think is the a big part of the route of happiness, and then the relationships of those people around you. That's basically it. So this is why I talk about these lifestyle goals, the ratchets, the things that you can do. And that makes a huge difference because you're banking something that adds to your lifestyle, not to your wealth. If not, it's then just become about the number go up. And all you just keep doing is chasing the number go up. Yeah. As opposed to what is that end state I want to live in. Now it may change, it will likely move further, but I don't think my goals have wildly changed for the last 20 years or 30 years. What I had in my head, still I'm trying to get to. Which is well, just the vision of how I want to live and where I want to live and that kind of stuff. And I was much closer to it, and then I got divorced, and that was that took took me back a long way. But I've had a clear idea, but part of that was actually I wanted to have a business that I built myself that was successful, or it's still getting there. Um and so that's part of that journey of fulfillment I wanted. Now, if it didn't work, fine, because I've banked my lifestyle chips and I'll be okay. The happiness is a lot of people who don't have an end game. So then what they do, if it's the game of money, is they just hyper compete with the ten other people who live in the Hamptons around them. Who's gonna be the richest one? It's just a point scoring system.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:11

And it's not happy. You have to be an endless athlete who's always playing the league and trying to win the championship against all of these other super intelligent people. That's a miserable life. It's just not it's just not fun in the end. What to you know, to to be a football player to the day you die, and that's your entire existence, is can I score goals? And you're in your 70s, and you, you know, you see the technology kid who's now worth more than you, and you're a finance guy. You're like, well, we were supposed to be the kings, and now I'm not anymore, and I'm less important. Who's this guy, Elon Musk, who's now worth half a trillion dollars? What does that say about me? I must be a less worthy person.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:49

It's insane. It is crazy. But we all do it, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:52

It's very human.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:53

You manage to, with your company, reach a lot of people that are the average person trying to get better at their finances, right? Yet you somehow don't seem detached. Detached and out of touch. I feel like a lot of rich people as they start speaking, you can tell like they don't they don't know what's the real life like anymore. How do you stay grounded? Is it through your travels? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:18

I told you the answer in the beginning. So are you still doing it? I mean, last summer. What was I doing last summer? Last summer I was in sleeping on a roof of a tent of a Toyota Land Cruiser driving across Zambia. Yeah. I've stayed at some very nice hotels in very fancy places. So you do it. What do I prefer the most? Sleeping on a tent on a Zambia. But I don't want to do it all the time either.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:43

But it it grounds you. And you choose to be grounded. Yes. Yeah. Because if not, you don't understand anybody around you. And then you're living in a gated complex. Now, it doesn't mean you want to be the man of the people all the time. But you you you want to and particularly in the industry that I'm in, you want to hear people. And that's what kind of annoyed me on that on that uh diary of a CO podcast. I felt like people weren't being heard, and it would read the comment section of that interview.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:16

People are like, at least Ral listens to our problem, which is we can't even start. And so people aren't even listening. Yeah. Because they don't want to. So, you know, the that that's the whole thing. This is why I'm so passionate about all of this, is you just have to listen to people and travel the world and see how the world works and how people can be happy in really strange situations, or how you go to a country like Spain and people's just quality of life is so much higher, and people are generally very happy with less economic opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:50

It's not about economic opportunity. It's about how do you live a life, how do you choose to do it. I love how we made the full circle.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:57

Full circle back to where we started with the travel.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:00

I I remember when our life started to turn really well for us, we created a charity and we started helping people all around the world, especially in places that no one cares about. Like some little village in Malawi or Nigeria that no one ever even heard of, and they need a sewer system. So we would do these like things at that time. We were running this thing called weekly 1000. So every week, one of our audiences, like causes would come and we would give them a thousand dollars. So we would see like a lot of causes all around the world. What can a thousand dollars do? Nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:36

We were supposed to feed 500 people, kids, kids, kids. We ended up feeding a thousand for a full year.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:45

For a thousand dollars for one year, the kids, this this school was not active anymore.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:52

For a year, and my brain couldn't come like what do you mean? How?

SPEAKER_06 1:13:57

Simple stuff, and it's such a perspective, right? Like, I have I have had my own experiences in this financial investing. It's like what you would go crazy for two years ago, now it's two years later, and this return doesn't feel like satisfying anymore. So two years ago, it's like life-changing, my life has changed fast forward, maybe even a year, and it's the same thing, and like, oh, like something's off. But just a year ago, that was like the biggest thing, and it's that's why it's so important to do this whole traveling. And and I'm sure a lot of people who will watch this episode are not only the people who are seeking uh help, but also people who are already successful, reminding of the fact that actually the real goal of life is happiness and that money really like rewires you to not just chase consistently scale up and so here's another way to think about this.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:51

My cousin in India um retired young, made a lot of money and came from a wealthy family, uh, my cousin's husband, and he's got a charity, and it's in rural Arissa, rural part of India, tribal. And the government at the time was starting to get people into the banking system, so the unbanked.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:15

As the Indian mobile phones were giving out almost free data.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:19

What year are we talking?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:20

We're talking probably from twenty two thousand ten to now.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:30

And the government were giving subsidies to these people to get them into the bank, to get them on mobile phones. And so his charity basically just went because half of these people are illiterate and helped them sign the forms for the government to give them that. To give them an opportunity because they got money, they then were had an ability to sell their crops, they use their phone, all the whole system works for them. So he just got them in. It's the same with what we're doing with crypto. Yes. You are actually using the scale of the internet to tell people about the opportunity to help them unfuck their futures.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:09

Thank you so much, Ralph, for everything that you do. I really love like I always come back to my mum and I'm like, she could just learn this back then, you know, and it's amazing how far you can go with a little bit of knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:22

And and the will.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:23

We've we distilled it down to how simple it can be.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:25

It is really simple.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:26

The finance industry wants to tell you how exp how complicated it is. The government wants to tell you as well.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:31

The advisors, everyone will lose their jobs. They have to.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:35

That world is not here anymore. And the other choice you can make is where you live. I talk about this a lot on podcasts.

unknown 1:16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:44

Is if your vision is I want to be living in a house on the beach, eating fresh food, and I want to be working on my computer, but I want to surf, go to El Salvador. You'll do it for a quarter of the price. So now you can afford it. I've just given you a 4x pay rise. Yeah, it's true. That is if they're remotely working, you know. Yeah, which is so much easier to do today. Then figure out how you sh how you can remotely work because this is not a world you want to be stuck in a miserable office in anymore. And you know, think about other streams of income. What else can you do? Maybe you're the nurse we talked about who's working twelve hours a day. Maybe twice a week you can do a podcast about nursing and tell you the stories and bring others. You know what? You'll attract an audience for sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:34

Or a race. Sorry? Maybe a pay pay raise, you know? Yeah, yeah, because you're doing something that no one else is doing. So in your industry, you will become that nurse, and that brings other opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:46

Exactly. And so just open yourself up to that. And so we've got the out, which is we can invest in crypto, but if you want to keep it easy, just buy the Nasdaq, you know, the QQQs and the Bitcoin, focused on your income, and then that future vision of yourself. Don't make yourself unhappy. If you can make it easier and your vision is whatever, figure out, hey, can I do this somewhere else? I bought my first house in Spain in cash. Changed my life. Because I had an apartment in London with a mortgage and I was working at Goldman Sachs and doing all these things, but I had enough savings because this house that my dad's friend was selling was cheap enough for me to buy in one lump sum. And then suddenly I realised I won the entire game because I could get fired, I could lose my job, I could give up, and I could still live in that house in the middle of Orange Groves on the side of a mountain in Spain. And it didn't cost me much, and life was cheap there, so I just needed any job.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:48

I think we feel like this a bit in Bali. Oh, yeah. We have the same situation. Yeah. Every time we come back, we're like, the life is so much simpler, and sometimes with the noise of the world, it's nice to have some simplicity as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:02

But you still need to get out into that intellectual curiosity place, and Bali's not it. Yes, that's why we keep getting out. That's the issue. That's why we're talking to you now. Thailand, Bali, Thailand, it's all the same. Yeah, yeah. I faced in Spain, Beach Town. Is in the end, people are kind of not doing anything.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:21

Yes. And you lose ambition, motivation, it's so interesting. Or that engagement when you meet interesting people doing interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:29

Yeah, that's why on this trip, like we've just been so happy because we've consciously created an environment where we speak to people that expand us, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:37

But when you go to the macro level and look at the world, it's actually not many people, places where it happens.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:44

Yes, it's all condensed.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:45

The intellectual really the US is still the centre of everything. It's just a whole different world.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:51

I mean, this is why we flew all across the world, because this is where you make what's the problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:55

Yeah, Singapore's buzzing, but it's not the same.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:57

No, it's not the same at all. Not the same. It's a small town.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:00

Um island, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:01

Yeah. Yeah. And um Hong Kong, still not the same. Tokyo, not the same. It's an old population, doesn't have China, possibly, but it's an aging population. It's just not very few.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:18

China.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:18

Arabic countries are I see Dubai.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:21

I feel like UAE is really situating very smartly with AI.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:24

Well, look at the age of the population. Yeah. The age of the population of most country. Look at the age of the population of India, 28, average age. All of those countries are in their 20s. Of course, go back to demographics. Population growth. You've got population growth of young people going through all of their earnings. So what are they? Entrepreneurial, they want to get ahead, they want to have fun. Okay, that's a place to live. If not, you're living in an aging population where they become more strict with the rules and regulations.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:54

Yes, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:55

Because you want to protect people, protect these old people, protect their savings, protect their way of life, and it becomes it sucks the soul out of me. It becomes Europe. It becomes Europe.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:08

They literally say, I do not want growth. It sounds like they don't want any growth.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:13

Because they cracked the code. Europe cracked the code with the way that in some countries government really has your back.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:21

Like really in places like Denmark, for example, or even the way things have been in my country, in Poland, it does feel more logic. Like people are not as in America, where the middle class is being pushed down and down and down when it comes to purchasing power.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:35

Only you see that in the UK. Less so in Europe, because life is it's cheaper. Yeah. It's cheaper, higher quality of life generally. But you're seeing it in the UK, you're seeing it a bit in Germany, really. Uh, Holland, we saw it a bit. So the northern European countries versus southern, it's actually it's quite weird. Um, but yeah, Europe chose to say no. Why? Remember the humanist and the transhumanists? Who are these guys? They're old. The last thing they want to do is merge with the machines. Are you crazy? Buy crypto car. Are you crazy? That's what it is, isn't it? Yeah, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:12

Yeah, so when you add demographics, I love the way you put it up in this pattern because now I'm gonna just see everything in this all demographics always was so interesting. It's you we complicate things, but it's actually quite simple when you boils down to it. It boils down to that.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:27

Yeah, yeah. And then you add the human emotion side around it. Of course, which is always the investing side, it's the story of war, it's the they're all it's all kind of the same thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:36

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:37

Thank you so much, Raoul. And how can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:40

Um, the easiest place to find me are you can find me on Twitter where I'm there they're hanging out. Giving you secrets. I like chat to people. Yeah, I'm very approachable. So that's at Raoul R A O U L G M I. Um, then check out if actually I've got a page which is ralpal.com. Amazing. Go there and it'll point you to Realvision, point me to everything.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:01

And we'll put everything in the description as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:03

So yeah, the other one is is always go to Realvision because that is the place you're gonna get this education. It's free to join. You there's a whole community of everybody around the world. You can talk about all the stuff, the trade ideas, you can learn how the economies everything is there. So that's realvision.com forward slash join. Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:20

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:21

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:22

This was so wonderful. Thank you, thank you, thank you.