Across the Whoniverse: A Doctor Who Marathon Podcast
A Doctor Who marathon podcast hosted by Chels & Paige
Across the Whoniverse: A Doctor Who Marathon Podcast
S01E03 "The Unquiet Dead" w/ Gavin Mevius & Fear Coded's Merrilee
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Time Lords! This week, we kidnapped companions Gavin Mevius & Merrilee of Fear Coded from the Glitterjaw Queer Podcast Collective as we travel back to Dickensian times.
Pity the Gelth as we recap this historical episode! We tackle the morality of consent after death, gush over our favorite scene that almost didn't happen, and pledge our undying love to Eve Myles.
Join us as we travel Across the Whoniverse!
Email us with questions or comments at AcrossTheWhoniversePod@gmail.com
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Across the Whoniverse
Paige
Chels
...Welcome to Across the Whoaverse, a Doctor Who Marathon podcast. I'm your friendly neighborhood Time Lord Chelsea I'm your Muppet of a Time Lord Page. And y'all, we've kidnapped two companions for this episode. It is my friends from Glitter Jaw, Marilee and Gavin. Marile, Gavin. I'll let y'all introduce yourselves because you do so many wonderful, delightful things, and I love you both so much.
SPEAKER_04Marilee, I guess I'm gonna have to let you go first because I'm still marveling on how it's so much bigger on the inside.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's really like what a beautiful space you guys have here. Thank you so much for inviting us in. Um, my name is Marile. I am one of the co-hosts of the Fear Coded podcast, uh, where we take a queer reading of a single book, video game, TV show, any kind of media that can be horror, we will take a look at and try and have a queer reading of. And it's truly my favorite thing that I've ever done. It's such a good time. And everything's gay. Yeah. And everything is gay. I swear to God, if you try hard and believe in yourself, anything can become queer.
SPEAKER_04I was just going to say your catchphrase is that you know, everything is gay. Yeah, no, that's I stand by this.
SPEAKER_03I have found queer readings of things like you would not believe. Um, and sometimes I'll find a queer reading and then reject it because I don't like the media and I don't want to do the work.
SPEAKER_00I respect that. Everything is gay could also be the tagline for Doctor Who, to be fair. Yes. That is true.
SPEAKER_01Marilee, here is a jump scare for you. I made sure to bring fear to this podcast. Oh no. Oh no.
SPEAKER_03As a funny joke for for only the people who saw this, so just the four of us, uh, Chelsea held up a bunch of Alamo elf pins. Uh, I famously hate that movie. Um, I think that it's bad. And uh it gave it gave me hives because uh I get very very bad secondhand anxiety embarrassment. Um, so thank you for that. I appreciate it. But what a gift.
SPEAKER_01We will not be serving you any like pasta with syrup or sugar in sprinkles. I really appreciate you, genuinely. Gavin here is your serving.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I am still on my 2000th year of not seeing it. So I you're braver than the troops, Marile.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. You're I really appreciate that. We when we set up a Patreon, everyone was like, You're gonna watch Elf, right? And I was like, for money, yes, I will. And I did.
SPEAKER_04That's true. That that's the way to do it.
SPEAKER_01I love that. Gavin, introduce yourself, tell the listeners who you are. Besides my favorite person to terrorize.
SPEAKER_04It's not terror when it comes from you. I promise. I promise. Um, I'm Gavin Mevius. Uh, I co-host two different shows on the Glitter Jaw Queer Podcast Collectives Network, and one of them is the Mixed Reviews, which is a very long-running film podcast. I do my good friend Louis Rendone. We take an entire month, we take a film subject such as an actor, director, or mini genre, and we do an entire history, and we tell you what we like and what we don't like. And then this past year, I started a James Bond rewatch podcast with the co-host of this podcast, Chels. Chels. Thank you for coming along and doing that with me. That is called the Q Division, and we are watching all the James Bond movies, possibly some related media. In fact, I was just thinking we should do more related media just to give myself a break from all of the research. And uh yeah, and I uh I I love doing it. I love that Chels decided to come along with me, and uh, we're having a really good time at like talking about the feminist themes, talking about the queer themes, and and really digging into like why queer people gravitate towards James Bond when it has all these sort of negative aspects about it and yet is still so gay.
SPEAKER_01I mean, we can thank Roger Moore for all of that personally. Like, what a man. Ooh. But no, um, listeners, I've been on all of these podcasts. I single white female my way onto the mixed reviews. It was wonderful.
SPEAKER_04You did dress as Louie and enter my apartment. That was very strange.
SPEAKER_01It was my quick drag. And then I got to talk about all the gay stuff about whatever happens to baby Jane on uh fear coded this summer. I'm like, what summer did I do this? It was this past one.
SPEAKER_03Yes, it was. It was this past one. We also had Gavin on for D.A month. The two like your episodes were, I think there was Tommy in between the two of you. Um, but it was just such a delightful time and and we had so much fun.
SPEAKER_04And what a delicious D.V. is.
SPEAKER_01That guy. Oh, what a babe. Love Tommy. So, y'all, this is a Doctor Who podcast with the gayest people y'all know. What is your hearst story with Doctor Who? Because this show has been around since the beginning of Time and Space. Uh, how were you introduced to the show? What's like some of your favorite characters? Let's just go off.
SPEAKER_03Uh, well, I was introduced to the show because I watched the sci-fi channel and they kept advertising this new show called Doctor Who in what, like whatever year it started coming out again, new who, and I've been watching pretty consistently ever since. We love the sci-fi, we love the sci-fi channel. We do. I have a lot of problems with the sci-fi channel, but I love it.
SPEAKER_01We've been watching this for 20 years, new who.
SPEAKER_03That's so wild.
SPEAKER_0120 years.
SPEAKER_0320 years. Yeah, time just keeps coming at you. It just keeps happening.
SPEAKER_04To quote L C D sound system, it keeps coming, it keeps coming, it keeps coming until the day it stops.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um anyway, 20 years ago, I started watching. I'd never heard of the show before. I was in high school, uh, I threw it on, and and I've loved it ever since. Um and and what about you, Gavin?
SPEAKER_04You were in high school. Oh god, I'm so old. I'm the old man of this podcast. So I actually started uh I I sort of kind of explained this to Chels a while ago. My dad raised me weirdly on the sh stuff that he liked as a kid, and not in like a forced sort of way, but stuff that I think he knew I would like. And so I actually started watching the original Doctor Who when it was re-airing on PBS when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_01You were a PBS kid.
SPEAKER_04Yo, very much so. So my first doctor was Peter Davidson, uh, who I still love and still think of as the doctor with his celery stick on his lapel, his little cricket uniform.
SPEAKER_03Something you and David Tennet have in common.
SPEAKER_04I know. I would when he revealed that Peter Davidson was his favorite, and then of course married into the family. I was like, you know, goals, honestly.
SPEAKER_01And you know what? David Tennet set a goal and like surpassed it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, truly. Uh, but I when the new show started airing, it was originally only airing in England, and I was already in college because once again I am old, and uh I sailed the high seas of the interwebs and found myself some copies before it even made its way to sci-fi channel and was very much on the lime wire getting myself copies and passing them along to my dad, six hours away back at home, burned to CDs or burned to DVDs, uh, so he could watch it and enjoy it as well. And I think he ended up re-watching it on sci-fi channel when it started airing there too. Uh, but yeah, so I'm I'm a pretty hardcore devotee of Doctor Who, and I don't think that will ever change, even though my husband does not like Doctor Who, he thinks it's for little kids, so he will never be on this podcast.
SPEAKER_01Well, I am notably a toddler, and also he hates James Bond, so this this tracks. I love it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. You know, opposites attract. Paul Abdul told me that once.
SPEAKER_01Oh, D.Va.
SPEAKER_04I see, I'm old, I can make that joke.
SPEAKER_01So, Gavin, how many viruses got onto your computer because of Doctor Who?
SPEAKER_04Oh my god, so many. You think I had a Mac back then? No. So you couldn't turn that thing on without it bursting into flames.
SPEAKER_01That thing was a Dell, and it took 20 years to turn on.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Can you believe that 20 years later it's still so hard to have access to Doctor Who?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I yeah, it's wild because it was on HBO for a while, but they lost the thing. And what what is it on now? I I believe Charles told me.
SPEAKER_00Nowhere, pretty much.
SPEAKER_01It is not available in the US. HBO just let the license expire because, like, also the Disney thing was a whole issue with them as well.
SPEAKER_04I was gonna say they're probably real bitter about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And you know, Disney has just said, fuck off to Doctor Who at this point, which I'm fine with. Love that, love that for me. So, um, Doctor Who is not easily available unless you're a great Gatriot and go get a library card and have access to Hoopla. You can watch the first four seasons of New Who over there. Hopefully by the time this air, somebody else will have picked it up or something, we'll have news about the show. But yeah, that's basically your only way to watch it unless you're me, a psycho with the biggest feet physical media collection, which that was my Christmas birthday present to Paige. This year was all of Doctor Who. So grateful. Or if you have a Fandango at home account and bought all the bundle saving packs in case your guests needed the episodes, because it's so hard to find. Everyone, go get a library card.
SPEAKER_03It is also available for free on the Internet Archive, the first season of New Who anyway. I haven't looked for anything else, but I did watch it there for free. That's a million.
SPEAKER_00I should use the library thing as like at my job, because I'm a librarian. If no one knows that, I should say you could watch Doctor Who with your library card.
SPEAKER_01You should know that I told a librarian something, me, somebody's still learning how to read. I know. You're getting there. Anything.
SPEAKER_00You're reading Doctor Who books. It's fine.
SPEAKER_01I am reading Doctor Who books. They have so many pictures, it's delightful. It helps me out so much. But y'all, let's dive into this episode, this 20 plus year old episode. Oh, it is a time. So we are with series one, episode three, The Unquiet Dead. Writer is Mark Gatis, director is Euros Lynn. This originally aired, obviously, during the Christmas season of April 9th, 2005, and it features the ninth doctor, Rose Tyler, Charles Dickens, Gwyneth, Mr. Sneed, and Pity the Gelf. And uh it's set in Cardiff, 1869, but the doctor wasn't really meaning to get there. And y'all, before we really dive into this little synopsis and everything, first off, uh fuck Charles Dickens in this episode. I won't even mention the actor's name because he sucks. So sorry, Charles Dickens, you're gonna take a lot of shots today.
SPEAKER_04I I will say, and I agree, he he does suck because he is a turf, and that's really upsetting. And but up until that happened, Simon Callow. Yep, I I will say him.
SPEAKER_01You can say his name.
SPEAKER_04He is like a really well-known, well-respected actor, and it's really it's actually genuinely upsetting that he holds those opinions and that he is uh just uh terrible when it comes to human rights.
SPEAKER_01But it is. It's sad when people in the LGBTQ plus community are the perpetrators of the violence.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, because he came out in like the 80s, and it like he knows how difficult it is.
SPEAKER_01So he'd done that, he's like been through the trenches of everything, but he sucks. And you know what? Who who doesn't suck? Christopher Eccleston. We love him here. That's an ally. Truly great ally, got to hug that man, great hug. I know. So, y'all, let's get into the synopsis of this episode because it's a wild one. I love historical episodes. The dead are roaming the streets of Cardiff in 1869 when the Ninth Doctor and Rose Tyler arrive, just in time for Christmas. Teaming up with Charles Dickens, the TARDIS team encounter the Gelph, creatures sucked through the Cardiff Rift from the other end of the universe with their home lost to war. Surely inhabiting dead bodies is wrong, though. Can both sides be helped, or are these gaseous creatures not to be trusted? And this is your synopsis from the TARDIS fandom website page. Y'all, do you remember the first time you ever watched this episode? And what was it like re-watching it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, I distinctly remember watching this episode for the first time. Um, because again, I had never heard of Doctor Who before. This was just a new show that I was watching every week. Um, and when I was younger, I had very limited like TV time. So I had to figure out what shows were worth watching. And at this moment, Doctor Who was the new show that I was excited about. So like this was I was judicious and making sure that I could watch this episode. And um, so I knew that it was a sci-fi show, the time travel aliens and everything. So going to the past, I knew that time travel was a thing. I for some reason didn't expect that. Um, so I was really surprised, but oh my gosh, Charles Dickens, what is this? And then the Gelf was such a th anyway. I I loved this episode. It was one of I think that this was the episode where I it made me realize that sometimes Doctor Who will just suddenly go balls to the walls horror for no reason. And I love that.
SPEAKER_04I agree with Marilee. I remember watching this the first time and being sort of impressed with the idea. Like I was like I said, I I'd been used to Doctor Who traveling to the past before. Though on the original series, even though he did sometimes meet famous people, he didn't he doesn't end up meeting famous people as often as he does in the current era. And so I thought, oh, what a what a really interesting thing to for your third episode to to visit a famous person and and involve him. And I think they did a really good job at incorporating him. I mean, obviously, Mark Gatis is in love with both Dickens and horror. Uh, in fact, around the time I was in college, Gatis released a three-part miniseries called The History of Horror, which if you can find, I really love. It's a beautiful, like, three-part documentary that I love revisiting every now and then. Dated now, but was very cool at the time. And yeah, I I just really loved both the incorporation of uh Christmas and Ghosts because I'm a Halloween girly, and so I I just like the spookiness all year round. And I know the I know Brits love you know connecting those two together.
SPEAKER_01Love that very nightmare before Christmas. Paige, do you remember the first time you watched this episode? And was it love at first sight with Eve Miles?
SPEAKER_00Oh, it absolutely was. She's just so charming. Um, it's so funny that she's in this and her name is Gwen as well. But we'll get to that later.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I we will. I notoriously love all of the historical Doctor Who episodes, and I think they're such like good introduction episodes for people to be like, hey, watch the one where they meet Charles Dickens, or watch the one where they meet Vincent Van Gogh, or like all of those. Yeah. Um, and I think it's such a bold, wild choice that to prove that he could go back in time, the doctor was like, Rose, I'm gonna have you meet Charles Dickens. I know it was kind of an accident, but like, you know.
SPEAKER_01I know. It is like one of those moments. I love when the doctor tries to impress people, the TARDIS messes up, and then they still have a great time, anyways. I love anytime there's a historical setting and the companion is forced to change into like period proper clothing, and the doctor's just like, I blend in, it's fine. And it's just leather jacket Doc Morten's.
SPEAKER_04I love the the quick lip service to that when she's like, Aren't you gonna change? She's like, I changed my jumper.
SPEAKER_01Like it's fine. Marilee calls him a liar.
SPEAKER_03No, I do. I I I was I said he was a liar about something else, but I I do think that that's very funny.
SPEAKER_01That is true though. The doctor does lie.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, he does. You know, sometimes it's for the greater good, other times it's just for fun because lying is the best time a girl can have.
SPEAKER_01We love to lie. So you know what? Let's just get into the plot because I love this episode. It is one of my favorite, like cold opens because it just gets me good every single time. Y'all, we open in Victorian Eric Cardiff at the Snead and Company funeral parlor. Mr. Redpath is grieving over his grandmother, Mrs. Peace, when Mr. Sneed, the Undertaker, gives his condolences. And like Red Path, he needs a moment to himself, you know, closes his eyes. And this is the part I really love. Like a blue spirit just washes over his grandmother's corpse. And next thing we know, like her eyes snap open, and she just grabs her grandson by the throat and strangles him to death. First off, y'all, that's like, I am locked in, ready to go, pedal to the metal. And next thing we know, Mr. Sneed, he'd just be rushing in, calling for his servant Gwyneth, and he's like, We've got another one. And I just love that he's like, Oh fuck, not this again. And the whole time he's just trying to close the lid on the coffin. You think he'd be stronger if this is not the first time it's happened. And this reanimated corpse just knocks him on his ass, and she just takes herself out for a little field trip. She's wailing into the streets. And I did put a screenshot of this diva in here because I love her. She's terrifying. These are the special effects I like when you're on a budget.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I and I do I think it's important to acknowledge that like the show, you know, I think the show has aged equivalent to how the original show aged for me as a kid. And I know a lot of people can't handle that, and I think they're wrong because I think there's something very charming about the way it looked. Like, I was re-watching it now, and I was a little surprised that I I remember it looking like a little more sophisticated, but that also could be because the current Doctor Who had that Disney money and and you know that.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it looked like a Marvel TV show.
SPEAKER_04It did look like a Marvel TV show.
SPEAKER_01The auditory.
SPEAKER_04But I really love the look of this episode, and I think the the scariness of you know, this this woman's blue face screaming as she walks down the street with like those ultraviolet reactive contacts. Really beautiful looking.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and she's like properly screaming too. Like it was very surprising. I like this is one of the things that I remember about watching this episode, just her screaming directly at the camera. What am I supposed to do about that? It was great. I loved it.
SPEAKER_01Proper monster of the week stuff. So, yes, this diva, she's yelling. We get this great face shot to the camera, and then it just smash cuts to credits, which I am a sucker for watching these credits all the way through, bring back opening credit sequences. But when we come back, we're in the TARDIS with the Doctor and Rose, and they got a little bit of turbulence going on. They're trying to go back to Naples in 1860, and the doctor's just shouting at Rose to hit all these different buttons and levers and everything. And you're like, oh boy, things are not gonna go as planned for them. But then, y'all, Mr. Sneed, he wakes back up in his little funeral parlor after his ghostly attack, and he's still be shouting for Gwyneth, who's just been he's been feeding the horse Samson, and she's like, Oh boy, not again. Sorry, I'm laughing because this guy, Mr. Sneed, I love him so much. Mr. Sneed's a hot mess. He he's just shouting, the steps are getting lively again, and they have to go find Mrs. P. They gotta go get the horse ready. And I just love that he's shouting, she was 86, she can't have got far, to which I say he does not have a grandma Shirley in his life. My grandma, she gets very far. It is like tracking a lost pet. And Gwyneth is just shaming him as if it's his fault and asks if Mr. Redpath has been dealt with, and he's like, No, but Mrs. Peace's corpse did it. Y'all, what did you think of this old lady just strangling her son and this guy just being like, damn it, we gotta go find this reanimated corpse. Come on, get the horse. What was your first reaction to that?
SPEAKER_00I just want a whole Mr. Sneed like prequel story. Because he's just like so over it immediately, and I need to know all of his backstory.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I feel like the again is doing a lot of heavy lifting here in like a really efficient way in the narrative, just be like, this is a continual problem that has been getting worse. Um, which I thought was really smart writing. Um, also, R.I.P to Mr. Redpath shouldn't have had to gone out that like that homie.
SPEAKER_04I I believe when this episode came out, it actually received some missives of people saying it was too scary for Doctor Who. But that's one of the beautiful things about Doctor Who, is it was always a little scary. It was always about the the kids cowering behind the couch as the monster of the week happened, or monster of the story arc, I should say, back then. But I yeah, I love the fact that it literally begins with a death, which is rare for a show that's meant for families.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I really love it because it does remind me of like that nice old time back in the day, like when it was the X-Files Monster of the Week. The smallville is Amy Adams eating a deer this week. Like, what troubles are these people going through now? How are we gonna solve this in like 42 minutes? That's like, take me back to these times. But no, we're gonna cut back outside, and the TARDIS is landing, not well, but the doctor and Rose are still having a good time laughing on the floor, and the doctor is. Fully confident that they've landed in Naples on December 24th, 1860, and not Cardiff, 1869. But then we get like one of my favorite things, which is Rose just reminding the doctor that it's Christmas, and she really makes him stop and think about how this day happens just once and is gone for everybody except for him. And that's just like my favorite thing of companions still humanizing the doctor, bringing out that little bit of wonder in the world. It's just, it's so nice.
SPEAKER_04It's not an easy role either, because obviously the companion is meant to be the eyes of the audience. They're the thing that like brings us in. Because the doctor, I once went to a screening with Stephen Moffat in attendance for the start of season six, series six, for those of you outside the US. And uh he said his thing that he he says he visions is Doctor Who or the Doctor is uh a god who wants to be a human. He was talking about it in comparison to his Sherlock, who is a human who wants to be a god. And you know, that's one of the things I like about the doctor is that keeps him sort of unknowable, and that he's not meant to be human. And I just as a corollary to what I was saying earlier about kind of the look of the show, I think what also really helps sell it is the acting is so good. I really do love the acting. I think Billy Piper is amazing. Anybody who doesn't think so, I do not know what's wrong with you. I think they're not our friends, don't worry. No, exactly, not our people. Um, and and I know we haven't gotten to her yet, but Eve Miles is so good. And and as you mentioned, the you know, the doctor himself. Uh Christopher Eccleston is amazing. Like it still kills me that he probably will never ever return to the show. And I know we get audio adventures with him, but he's so good as the doctor. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And remind me to send you his latest Rose and Doctor audio adventures.
SPEAKER_04Oh, please do.
SPEAKER_01They're so good. Y'all just remind me after, or I will forget.
SPEAKER_04I saw this is a real tangent. Feel free to cut this out if you want. I saw uh Billy Piper in a production of Irma, which is a very upsetting play, uh, in the armory in Manhattan, and oh my, she killed it. It's so it's like a really upsetting play about a woman who ends up like not being able to have a child and ends up like killing herself. It's but she was so, so good. She and I was like, wow, like I I knew she was good because I love Doctor Who, but like, oh, tore my heart out.
SPEAKER_01I wonder if that's the one on the National Theater at home. Perfect. I have that streaming out. I'll have to watch that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they brought it here as well. I highly recommend it. It's a great production, too. It took place entirely in a glass box in the middle of a room. So the seating was in the round, so the entire audience could just so also as an actor, like you just can't escape the audience. You're there once you're on stage, you're there the entire time.
SPEAKER_01Also, she had to be melting because that had to be so hot. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03With the lights, like can you imagine?
SPEAKER_04Well, there's a whole part where it rains too, so that it was like raining in the glass box, and I was just like, oh my god, it was amazing.
SPEAKER_01It's very cool, beautiful, beautiful. But yeah, Spilly Piper brings so much to this show, like in the simplest way, and I love her so much. But then I do love that the doctor just like Rose is ready to go for adventure, and the doctor being, I mean, what a menace, is like, yo, Barbarella, you're gonna cause a riot. Go to the wardrobe, here's the directions. And then I I do love that whenever he comes back, like she comes back, he's like, I changed my jumper. No, doctor, you don't blend in like you think you do. No, he doesn't.
SPEAKER_03And this is where I I I that little joke about him being a liar earlier was. Um, because you know, Rose comes out and and um she says, How do I look? And he and he says, You look beautiful. Um, and and she's like, Yeah. And then then he like looks down and he says, considering, and considering what, and like the human thing. And that's where I called him a liar, is like considering. You can't walk that back, mister.
SPEAKER_01I still walk it back. And then I love that she's like, No, I'm opening the TARDIS this time. You did it before, it is my turn. And she opens the TARDIS and just is thrilled to step out into the snow. And obviously, they realize they're not in Naples anymore. But they find a newspaper, realize that they got the flight a little wrong, and she's like, I don't care. I don't care. I'm having a great time.
SPEAKER_03My favorite part about this little bit is that the doctor keeps being like, sorry, it was this year, or sorry it was this, and and she keeps saying, I don't care. And then she's uh the doctor says it's not Naples, it's Cardiff, and she doesn't say I don't care. There's a very poignant pause there for it just a second. And she's like, I'm not fair. Yeah. And that made me laugh really hard.
SPEAKER_01I know. And this is like one of the first times in the show that we see, like in the news series, the TARDIS being like, you know what? I'm just gonna take you here instead. This is where you need to be right now, not so much where you want to be. And then the best part is Billy Piper, when she opens the door, they were supposed to have snow come in, but because they blew their entire budget filming the end of the world episode right before this, they're like, no, no snow for you, none of that. You're lucky you get whatever's on the ground right now.
SPEAKER_04I I just love that. I love that it's that sort of cheap. And I don't I don't think it looks that cheap on on the screen. But the idea that they couldn't even have snow blow into the TARDIS, like they were pinching pennies that hard, or pinching pounds, I suppose.
SPEAKER_01They pinch them pounds, yo. But as they go off and wander around Cardiff, we cut back to Mr. Sneed and Gwyneth on the horse looking for Mrs. Peace. And Mr. Sneed tells Gwyneth to use her sight, which is like clairvoyance, or she's fired, which this is why family, like your work is not your family, y'all. Right here, right now. Gwyneth does focus though on the last thing the woman wanted and goes into her own little trance and sees that Mrs. Peace was going to see Charles Dickens give a reading at the music hall. And then, smash cut, we get to Charles Dickens, who's he's so brooding and kind of bitchy at this point. He's feeling alone and he's like, I've been clumsy with my family matters, I feel too old. And then, of course, because we have to be slightly on the nose, he's like a ghost condemned to repeat himself for all eternity, and says, even his imagination has grown stale. Imagine just like basically saying the Christmas carol is you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But I've been there, we've all had burnout before.
SPEAKER_04Especially this time of year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right? That's so real. That's so real. A little too real. But yes, then Mr. Sneed and Gwyneth, they just roll up on this music hall for a Dickens reading of a Christmas carol. And just as Dickens is like describing Marley's face appearing to Scrooge, Dickens spots Mrs. Peace glowing blue in the audience, and he's just fully stopped in his tracks, which I do think is a great moment in the show. I don't care how on the nose it is. And then just all these vapors are pouring out of her mouth, which is terrifying. And I'm the audience as well. We are all running out of our seats as Dickens shouts for everybody to stay there, that it's just a trick, because again, Dickens, he loved to take down scammers and fraudsters in real life. That is very funny that they brought it to here.
SPEAKER_04I also just love the fact that it is convincingly like I mean, one of those brilliant things about Doctor Who is you constantly have to have a reason that nobody's constantly going, oh, there's aliens. And so for that, it could just be, oh, it's the theatrical setting, whatever. It was it was a little gag he was playing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Same. I love it so much. And because people are shouting and screaming and running out of the music hall, that is the bat signal for the Doctor and Rose, and they just giddily run towards danger, which I love that they're little psychos like that. And quickly behind them is Gwynneth and Mr. Sneed, and as the vapor completely leaves Mrs. Peace's body and is sucked into a lamp, first off, that was weird. I thought that was so scary, but I loved it. Like, so that happens, and Dickens thinks the doctor is responsible. And in all this confusion that's happening, all the screaming and yelling, Mr. Sneed and Gwyneth carry Mrs. Peace's body out of the hall. Do you think you could sneak a dead body out of a concert hall?
SPEAKER_03I mean, if people were sufficiently distracted, maybe. Uh, and I guess it depends on the security. I don't think that they were like metal detectors in uh, you know, Victorian England. So there's a good chance.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's gotta be second showing. It's gotta be like after the dinner and drinks crowd.
SPEAKER_00That's the it's not a matinee thing. No, no, no, no. I would just make up a silly excuse, like, oh, she has consumption. Yeah, she's gonna get out of here. Go classic clue, she's dead drunk. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I'm gonna get her a car, a long black one, a limousine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But here's the thing: Rose, she clocks it, she follows both of them, and Mr. Sneed, as like Rose is trying to interrogate, just sneaks up behind her, chloroforms, and just takes her body out with them. I miss the days when you could just chloroform a person. Now it just feels so insidious.
SPEAKER_04Well, it's it's a sure sign that he used to be a clown. That's every every good clown knows you keep a rag with chloroform around.
SPEAKER_01Obviously. But then the doctor steals Charles Dickens' coach, telling him to get in as they pursue Mr. Sneed and Rose. And the doctor fully fangirls over Dickens, and Charles loves the praise and allows the doctor to stay after the doctor explains what a fanatic is, gushes about every single little work. And I do think that Dickens is a nosy bitch and wants to go to a second location. Like, who wouldn't? I, as a as a lover of gossip and mess, I too would go to the second location. You have to know how the story ends. Exactly. Marile, am I dying in this movie?
SPEAKER_03Uh it really depends on whether you have main character plot armor. And here's the thing, Chels, I honestly think that you would. I think you'd be able to Muppet your way out of this one, and I love that for you.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh, to be a Muppet. Oh, Paige, I'm in your territory now. I know.
SPEAKER_04I got funny friend energy, so I might make it to the second one, but no further.
SPEAKER_01Also, another fun fact, they wanted to initially crash the Dickens coach just to have like that moment that references some of his work, but they couldn't afford that either.
SPEAKER_04Euroslyn just like, we can't afford snow crashes.
SPEAKER_01We can't afford it. This other guy literally spent all the money, and production is a nightmare.
SPEAKER_03Well, listen, I think that that Britney Spears track was worth it. So yeah, true.
SPEAKER_01It was worth it. Were all the special effects worth it? Debatable.
SPEAKER_04I love classical music. Sorry, sorry.
SPEAKER_01You know I'm easy to make giggle. But y'all, they're following, they're pursuing, and we cut back to Gwynneth and Mr. Sneed at the funeral parlor as they hear a knock on the door, and he tells her to get rid of whoever is there, but Dickens and the doctor clock the lamp behind her, acting real funny. There's some gas things happening there, and I don't think any sort of pepto is gonna help. We cut to Rose waking up in the back room, and behind her the blue vapor jumps into Mr. Redpath's body. That's still hanging out there. Personally, I would have put that in the morgue. And I love that she just asks, Are you alright? And this little animated corpse just creepily climbs out of his casket and stalks after her, and then Mrs. Peace's body also reanimates and climbs up again. This is where I'm running. Sorry, Rose. We are running away. But the doctor barges into the house and is inspecting the gas lamps inside, and he thinks there's something living in the pipes when he hears Rose screaming. They run to the back room and ask who the ask the corpses who they are. They respond that they are dying because the cardiffer is failing and their forms are trapped in that form and are failing. Then they scream for help before the blue vapors pop out of their bodies and collapse again. They are so dramatic. These are some dramatic ghosts.
SPEAKER_04Truly. Well, I mean, I did I stopped watching the episode after this, so I'm very much on their side. Yeah. They're they're in the right, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you gotta pity them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Pity the gulf.
SPEAKER_04Pity the elf. They've never done anything wrong.
SPEAKER_01But who has done something wrong is Mr. Sneed, and Rose just is tearing into him for drugging her and like kidnapping.
SPEAKER_04And she should be.
SPEAKER_01She should. Like she lets him have it. It's amazing. And that Gwyneth just gives the doctor his tea the exact way he likes it, but he didn't tell her that. And Mr. Sneed tries to explain that the house is haunted and that it didn't bother him until a few months ago when all the dead bodies just started walking around on their own, some of them almost into their own funerals. I would walk into my own funeral.
SPEAKER_04Very tum Sawyer of you.
SPEAKER_01I would, you know I would. You gotta see who's there.
SPEAKER_04Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. I'm like, what are you guys saying? I'm nosy. But Dickens, who is the mythbuster of his time, he's like, mm-mm, you're mad. That's just an illusion. But the doctor tells him, if he's gonna just deny all this, then don't waste his time and shut up, which I do love when the doctor just tells a loud man to shut up. It's very fun. The doctor asks him about the gas, and Mr. Sneed says, Well, that's new. And then the doctor explains that the rift is like a weak point in space and time, a connection between like there and another place, and it's getting stronger as the rift gets wider, and something is sneaking through. Dun dun.
SPEAKER_04I'm sure that'll never get mentioned again. Yeah, I'm sure it doesn't come up a bunch during this first season.
SPEAKER_01No, not at all. That's not important. Forget about it.
SPEAKER_04It's cool that Cardiff has its own hell mouth, though.
SPEAKER_03I mean Cardiff and Sunnydale, California have so many things in common.
SPEAKER_04It's true.
SPEAKER_03It is.
SPEAKER_04See, and I feel bad. Like, I don't I don't want to bring over up another creep in Joss Wedden, but there it is very clear the first season of Doctor Who owes a lot to Buffy. And and I don't mean that in a negative sort of way. In fact, I love it. I'm a huge Buffy fan. But it but it's one of those things where it's like, oh yeah, the rift, the the overarching plot of it all, bad wolf, the hints to things.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, no, Buffy really showed like between that and the X-files that you can do kind of sci-fi fantasy of the week and do it well. And you know what? Still have predators behind the scenes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, true. And and pop culture references to him calling her Barbarella earlier, too, because that's who's that for. That's for me. That's for me.
SPEAKER_01All the gay people. Exactly. You can tell a homosexual was riding this and running this. But Dickens, the sneaky bitch he is, he's just sneaks away to inspect the lamps, saying it's all impossible before inspecting Mr. Redpath's body, trying to figure out all of this trickery. I would not be messing with a body that just tried to kill people, though. Not me. But the doctor catches him and apologizes for telling him to shut up, and he just tells Dickens that when the human body decomposes, they release gas, making them the ideal vessel for these aliens. Aliens, you can have my body when I'm gone.
SPEAKER_03But you can be the guelf, you want to give your body to the guelf?
SPEAKER_01What do you mean? I'm not using it.
SPEAKER_04Once again, if you stop watching the episode, completely innocent. Never done anything wrong, precious baby gelfs.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, right there. But Dickens, still in his petty party and brooding and everything. He's just like, I'm feeling so wrong about the world, and everything I know to be true is not real. And the doctor's like, uh, you're not wrong. You're just learning. And maybe more people should just be open to learning as adults. Like, that could be useful in life. Who knew? And Dickens, he's like, nah, I'm gonna spiral. My life has been for nothing. And he's like, I've dedicated myself to the real world, the injustices and great social causes. I've wanted to be a force for good. Girl, we've all been there. And I do like this part of his little pity party because it's like, oh man, everything I knew is wrong. Oh no, what have I done? Who hasn't been there?
SPEAKER_03Who hasn't? It's very relatable. And I I think that the carriage scene that we had earlier between the doctor and Charles Dickens is really important to this scene because we had that like immediate connection. Like they were flirting with each other about like how great Charles' work was. And then now in this moment, there's another honest conversation between the two of them. And I don't know how receptive Charles Dickens' great genius of history would have been to hearing this from the doctor had he not already established himself as like someone who was on Charles Dickens's team earlier. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, like it's been established that the doctor really like respects Dickens and his work and everything and like all of this, but then it's like Dickens being like, oh no, this person that I respect is telling me this new information, and he really has to reckon with that. And it is like a beautiful building of those scenes, as you say. But as that's happening, we cut back to like Rose and Gwynneth with Rose telling her that Mr. Sneed works her to death, and Rose just starts helping her, which is another thing I really love about Rose. She's just never above helping other people no matter what. And like she's trying to get to know Gwynneth a little bit, asks how much she gets paid, and is just appalled when she hears it's eight pounds a year and she would have been happy with six. But then they're like, we're gonna gossip. We didn't like school, love skipping classes. And then I do love Gwyneth when she scandalized Rose, telling her, Oh, I just wanted to look at boys, and gets her to open up about her crush. And she's like, Gwyneth, ask your crush out. But then we learn a little bit more about Gwyneth, that like she lost her parents when she was 12 to the flu, and Mr. Sneed took her in after that, and she really believes that there's some sort of afterlife paradise, and says that Rose's dad could be waiting for her too. Another creepy moment, which I thought was very fun. But then Rose is like, um, I didn't tell anybody that my dad's dead. And it's like, I don't know how I knew that. Maybe the doctor, maybe Rose has been thinking about her dad more lately. Who knows? Who knows?
SPEAKER_04For some reason.
SPEAKER_01For some reason, yeah. And then Rose wants to know, how do you know all this? And Gwyneth just shaking her off, saying, Mr. Sneed thinks tells me I think too much. But then Gwyneth is like, I'm gonna take a little trance, I'm gonna have a little Emma Thompson moment and disassociate and say, You've you've come a long way from London, but not the London she's seen before in drawings. And then there's like metal boxes and metal birds in the sky with people in them, and she just doesn't like all the noise. And that Rose has seen darkness, the big bad wolf, before snapping out of it and apologizes. And this is like another big instance of bad wolf really being said throughout the series. Everyone, remember that it might be important later.
SPEAKER_04Maybe maybe. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, this is this is a surprise tool that might help us later.
unknownWho knows? Who knows?
SPEAKER_04Um, I I just want to say before you continue, this is my favorite scene in the episode because I love both of it as a as a character piece for both of them, because it's not only letting us know more about Gwen's character, but it's also letting us know more about Rose, who we're going to be with. And once again, the doctor's not the doctor is the doctor. He's and he's not there to like listen to your backstory and hear your tragic tale. So it's nice to have another quote unquote normal person, and then just Eve Miles being able to switch from that that like innocent sweet girl to the way that she goes into that trance and starts, you know, freaking out about the metal boxes in the sky and and the the big bad wolf. I yeah, the it's really, really beautifully acted, and then most of it's just done in a series of two close-ups and an occasional two-shot, but it's it's really, really beautiful.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I agree. I think this is one of my favorite sequences in the episode as well. It's like really the heart of this episode in a lot of ways, and and just like the emotional connection that Rose and Gwen form here is really important to the climax, but like not even just that, it's just seeing Gwyneth being psychic and dealing with all of that kind of stuff is so wonderful. Um, because I don't know about you guys, but as I was revisiting this episode, I kept thinking about how if this had been, this episode was done a few seasons later when um when it wasn't Russell C. Davies as the showrunner, but like somebody like Moffitt, um, they would have absolutely made her psychic abilities tied into like her being over the rift, right? And this episode doesn't do that, like they are not cowards, they just make psychic powers canon to Doctor Who, and that's so fun. This isn't something that they pick up with, um, but it's like real, and I love that.
SPEAKER_01Same. And y'all want to know the craziest thing about this whole beautiful scene we get with Rose and Gwyneth. The episode was under time because of all the sequences they had to cut for budget reasons. So they just wrote this and shot this really quickly after. So this was not supposed to be in the episode.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you kidding wild.
SPEAKER_01I know. So it's like the I would say the best scene of the episode is this. And it it was just a last minute thing because they needed extra time.
SPEAKER_04I can't imagine this episode without it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I feel like it is the whole thesis of everything that's happening and sets up so much more for the rest of the series.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I that's genuinely shocking to me. Uh and I I don't think that they would have been able to write this scene without the actors that they have in it. I genuinely think that like the way that they interact and make this work. Oh God, it's stunning.
SPEAKER_01It is. And this goes back to my thing about soap operas because if you just have like a couple of really good actors and some really great dialogue, that's all you need. You do not need all of the visual effects and spectacle whenever you can have two people having a beautiful conversation, and that just that does so much more.
SPEAKER_00This is the kind of scene that makes you really fall in love with those kinds of characters, especially Rose, since she's the only one that we continue on with, unfortunately. But yeah, sort of. We see we see Eve Eve Miles again. Um, but like I was talking about in our second episode, Rose is so good at just like connecting with anyone anywhere that they go, and it's so natural for her, and I feel like the scene is so crucial to that character development of her just like again humanizing and connecting with everyone.
SPEAKER_01It goes back to her just being a shop girl, but you think about somebody as a shop girl, they're around people all the time, they have to connect, and that's kind of beautiful. So all of this beautiful stuff happens, and then Gwyneth does explain that like her mother told her she had the sight whenever she was very young, and that she can't ever control it. But then the doctor surprises them and states that her sight is getting stronger, and when Gwyneth agrees, the doctor's like, it's growing up on the rift, and that Gwyneth is part of the rift because like she grew up there, it's like strengthening whatever was already in her before. And this is where I feel like Gavin is Charles Dickens, and I am the doctor because the doctor's like, let's have a seance, and Charles Dickens is like, what is this bullshit?
SPEAKER_04I don't know. I think I'd kind of also be like, you know what?
SPEAKER_01Let's have a seance, whatever. We're gonna read your astrology after this, Gavin. Oh, please. He's a Capricorn and a non-believer page. Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_02That's true.
SPEAKER_03That is pretty Capricorn of you, actually. Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Gwyneth has gathered everybody around the table for this little seance and is like, join hands. And of course, our Gavin Charles Dickens calls it ridiculous. And the doctor tells Mr. Humbug to have an open mind. And even though Dickens says it's nonsense, he agrees. And god damn it, the doctor is like, don't antagonize her. I love a happy medium. And the rose is just like you fucking did not.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Dumbest joke of the episode, everybody. Here it is.
SPEAKER_04But but I love that Mark Gatis can't help himself. That is that is a Mark Gatasism, if there ever was one.
SPEAKER_01It is, and I love it so much. But then Gwen just like starts calling for the spirits, and the blue vapors appear above them. The doctor says they can't get through the rift, and that Gwyneth is controlling it and needs to allow them through. The doctor explains they're from the other side of the universe, and their spirits reveal that they're the guelth, and they ask for help and ask Gwyneth to be like, hey, like, let's make this a bridge, the rift. Let's do this. Come on, girl. We're the last of our kind. We're almost extinct. The Timor came and the universe convulsed and their bodies wasted away, that they're stuck in this like gaithous state, and they want the dead bodies around on earth to inhabit. Let's do this, girl. And I do love the morality question this brings up because Rose is like, uh no, you can't just have people's dead bodies. And the doctor's like, why not? They're not using it, it could save their lives. And the guel, you gotta pity them because they disappear as they're begging for help. And Dickens finally believes. So Rose takes Gwynneth off to rest. She says, The Gelph needs me, and Rose is like, You're exhausted, and you're not fighting the doctor's battles because Rose knows a little bit about the time war at this point. Not all of it, just that it's something that the doctor was a part of. And the doctor explains they're aliens, they need bodies, and they can't stay in the human ones too long and have to hide in the pipes. They need Gwyneth to help them through, and Rose is like, uh, you can't have her. And y'all, this is our morality question. What do you think? Is it okay for the Gelph to have these dead bodies at this point in the episode? Or are you Team Rose and you're like, uh no, you can't just have these dead bodies. We should respect them. And I do love the doctor points out, um, you got a donor card, huh? What do you think?
SPEAKER_03Okay, but like she has a donor card allowing, like saying that she gives her permission. They just don't do that to every dead body. And especially in this time period where they very firmly believed and like wouldn't do cremations because they thought that they needed their bodies as part of like uh when the end of the world come, that Christ would come and like they would reinhabit. They you needed your physical being. I think that's like kind of crazy to just volunteer. But also, you know, if if the guel in this point in the episode where we think that everything is fine, um they also need them. So, like it's it is it is a trickier moral quandary that then I think just on the face of it, you can just assume, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I also think the doctor has some, especially this particular doctor, has some. I mean, he's obviously has a ton of guilt about the time war, and we can extrapolate a lot of that based on what we learn later about the time war. But I think for him, he sees this as a way to save as many people as possible. And obviously that idea comes back up in the Doctor dances and whatnot. But I think for him, and I'm not defending it, I I do think it's crazy for him to offer all of the dead on Earth for the Gelf to inhabit. But I I do think for him he sees this as a way to save a species that he is wronged without hurting anybody else, uh, because he's not really taking into consideration the mores of the time, specifically the Victorian era. And so obviously, I think he but I I think you're correct, Marley, in saying, yeah, it's nuts.
SPEAKER_03It is it is crazy, but I again like I I I understand the very near like real need for life. I feel like if they could have been like you need permission somehow to like to try and like farm, like get that, maybe they could have done something else. But I do like how in the next scene where the doctor is like talking to the Gelf about it, like we're this is only temporary, you can we'll figure something else out for permanent like situation. I think that was really a smart way for like the showrunners to handle the absolute quandary they've created here.
SPEAKER_01And as y'all were speaking, I just kept thinking about I think the doctor thinks bodies are more disposable because at this point, with the information we have, the doctor is already on his ninth body that he knows of. And it's just like, mm-hmm. Yeah, like it's just a body. So I think that it's just because he's a different species, he's not taking into account like that humans are different and have their own consent to deal with.
SPEAKER_04I do also feel like he's one of the only doctors to ever be like, hey, time is in flux all the time, things can change, it's not that big of a deal. The rest of the doctors are always like, fixed point in time, can't do things. And he's just like, nope, whatever, change history, who cares?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I well, they hadn't created that concept yet.
SPEAKER_04Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. I I one thing that I don't think they they talk about the fact that like as these bodies are decomposing, they're releasing gases, and that's what makes them such excellent hosts for the Gelf. Um, one thing that they don't talk about is the fact that that is a a limited time frame. So, like, how are you are you how long does like a Gelf being in there slow decomposition?
SPEAKER_01Um And I think that's why the Gelf have to like jump out of the bodies because they run out of gas literally and figuratively.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so it's just the whole thing is absolutely bonkers. They did not write this episode 20 years ago with the concept of a bunch of queer podcasters talking about it, but um They really should have thought ahead.
SPEAKER_01They really should have. Yeah. But I do love that Rose being the advocate she is, she's like, You're not just gonna use Gwynneth. And Gwynneth pipes up, she's like, Shouldn't I have a say in this? And Rose like, you don't understand. And Gwyneth tells her, I know you think I'm stupid, but things are different where Rose is from. But Gwyneth knows her mind, and she does want to help these creatures, angel beings, because she's been living with them most of her life. She's always heard them in her head. And so I do understand where she's coming from, that it might give her some form of peace. And then she asked the doctor what they need to do, and that the angels have been singing to her since she was a child. It does remind me of something we talked about on a Q Division episode with dignity and death and how people should be allowed to have a say in their own fate. So I do like that in the end, like Gwyneth, yes, she was probably tricked at a certain point, but also she did give consent with the information she knew and whatever experience she lived with these voices in her head.
SPEAKER_00And we know that she inherently wants to help people, both with like uh being a maid and with having the visions that she has, and she warns people about things to come, and in this situation, she wants to help these beings that have been around her.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. I mean, they're her constant companion.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01So, yes, the doctor says they need to find where the rift is and asks Mr. Sneed where the weakest point of the house is, aka where they've seen the most ghosts. And so they gotta pop down to the morgue, which is um again, if this was fear-coded, I'm not going down there. I'm going back to the music hall because all the ghosts are gone.
SPEAKER_02Bye.
SPEAKER_01And Rose is like, mm, there's no ghosts in 1869. I know this. I paid attention in school and is still trying to defend the dignity of dead bodies. And this is where the doctor reminds her, Time's being rewritten. Fuck off, whatever.
SPEAKER_04And then Dickens and that's verbatim.
SPEAKER_01It's exactly what it was said on every channel at the family time slots.
SPEAKER_04Exactly.
SPEAKER_01But I do love that Dickens interrupts their bickering and points out, uh, it's getting colder in here, and the Gelth reappear, and Rose tells them not to hurt Gwyneth, but the doctor says he'll take them somewhere else after and transfer them where they can build proper bodies, that this isn't a permanent solution. And I do like that he added that in later, even if it was just to appease Rose at the point. So Gwyneth steps up into the arch despite Rose's objections, and she establishes this bridge. And then suddenly the Gelth, they descend, they're blue, and then they get all fiery red, and she's like, ah, don't worry, it's just a few billion of us. Much more than the like handful they implied earlier, and they show their true colors, the dead literally, literally, because red means bad and evil. We learned that. Satanic panic.
SPEAKER_04I did uh I did do some modicum of research before coming out, and I did read that that was also a last-minute edition, was changing the color of the Gelf after they became evil.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. I mean, humans are simple. All we need is a different color. Here's the thing, though, this is like a personal note. Y'all, I do not think aliens should be invading Earth. I am the person who saw that meme that aliens roll up their windows when they cruise by Earth. Because have you seen this mess? They are not invading us. They don't want to come down here. Do you can you imagine the cleanup job that would be? Ugh, like worse than an oil spill. Can't fix us. But no, Mr. Sneed does try to break Gwyneth out of the trance once he realizes something's wrong. And he does insult her by calling her like a stupid girl, and then of course, one of the corpses snaps his neck and his body is taken over. A big whoopsies. I mean, rest in peace, Mr. Sneed. You needed to work on your customer service skills.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you and your mutton chops will not be missed. No.
SPEAKER_01But Dickens flees as the Doctor and Rose are cornered by the guilt, and they start saying their goodbyes to each other. I'm glad we got to know each other. I'm glad I met you. I'm sorry you're gonna die a century before you're born. And Rose points out that they're not just dying, they're becoming a guelh.
SPEAKER_04I I don't think the doctor I don't think they could get the doctor. I know we're not there in the series yet for Rose, but I think I think even I think the regeneration process would prevent that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, if only because they're burning every single cell. I think the gas would burn out, y'all. But outside, where Dickens has fled, he spots a guelh getting sucked into the gas lamp on the street with a little scream, and he has a funny idea. He runs back into the house, turns off all the lamps, and turns up the gas. And then he runs back downstairs to the morgue and tells the doctor and Rose what to do. The gas will suck them all out of the host and back into the air like sucking poison from a wound. The guilts start pouring out of the corpses and swirling into the air. The doctor tells Gwyneth to send them back, that they lied to her, but she says she can't send them back, but she can hold them in the rift with the bridge she's created. And she pulls matches out from her apron and tells them to leave. Rose really doesn't want her to sacrifice herself. I love that Rose is always sticking up for people. But the doctor makes Rose and Dickens leave, saying she won't he won't leave her in danger. He's gonna try to save her. But then the doc like after they've all left, the doctor touches Gwynneth's neck and realizes that she already sacrificed herself, gives her a little kiss on the forehead and thanks her before running out. Gwyneth lights a match, and you know what? The house explodes, and the guelts are consumed in the explosion.
SPEAKER_04This performance by Eve Miles is also my other favorite thing in this episode. The I think it's really, really difficult to do that like non-emotion, like the way she's physically just hanging her body, just her arms really limp, the the like staring straightforward, not breaking the eye contact. It's really, it's a really beautiful body language performance at this moment, and she's so good at it. Truly an MVP of this episode.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Like you can tell where her theater training completely translates over to like film and video because it doesn't always, and it's like, oh no, she's taking all this physicality and is so brilliant.
SPEAKER_04Did did any of you read about her audition for this episode real quick?
SPEAKER_01I think I have it in the notes. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_04We'll get to it later then.
SPEAKER_01Honestly, Gavin, we need her shirt.
SPEAKER_04We need her shirt.
SPEAKER_01Rose is really upset, but the doctor tells Rose that when he checked Gwyneth's pulse and realized she's probably dead the moment she stood in the arch of the rift, that she'd been dead for several minutes. Rose doesn't understand because Gwyneth was still talking. And then Dickens just quotes Shakespeare's Hamlet. There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. And Rose is just sad watching this funeral home burn down, and she's like, she saved the world, a servant girl, and no one will ever know.
SPEAKER_03That's my favorite line in the whole episode. I that really moved me. That's one of the things that I kept remembering. And I just I really loved it. I think that Rose's empathy for this person who did this incredible thing, and knowing that like history completely forgets about her is it's so moving and wonderful. And like, I know the doctor says that she's been dead since the moment she stepped under the arch, but I don't think that's true. Like, if you watch, I think the moment she opened the gate to the Gelf is when like that's what killed her. Um, because like she stops really like moving stuff around that time, and her her being there in the space. Again, this is another thing that proves like the magic of it that I don't think we would get later seasons, but is really apparent here. Um, I just really loved it all.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. It is all about that empathy. Uh, I love Rose. She's amazing. Yeah. People give her shit now, but I'm like, no, she did a great job. But then we gotta wrap this story up. Dickens follows the doctor and Rose back to the doctor's shed, aka the TARDIS. And Rose asks Dickens what's what's he gonna do now? And Dickens, you know what? He's got that Christmas spirit. He's going back to London, ASAP. He's gonna spend Christmas with his family and make amends, and that after everything he learned tonight, there's nothing more vital. That this experience has opened his eyes and that he thought he knew everything, but he's just getting started. Oh, if only more people could just accept that learning is a lifelong thing. I love that. If only. I know. And then he just starts going on that he's gonna like finish writing one of his books, it still lacks an ending, and that maybe the killer isn't gonna be the boy's uncle. It's gonna be something not of earth, and he's going to spread the word and tell the truth. And they say goodbye, and Dickens questions how it's a goodbye when it's just a blue shed. Rose gives him a little kiss on the cheek, and Dickens says, of all the doctor's riddles, he only wants to know who he is. And the doctor tries to blow him off, saying he's just a friend passing through. But then Dickens is like, You have knowledge of the future, and ask if his books will last. And that's always my favorite part of these like historical episodes is just all these artists being like, Wait, did I make an impact? Did anything good come of this?
SPEAKER_04And did I matter? It's even simpler.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And the doctor's like, Yeah, they last forever. And so this is the sad part, y'all. Him and Rose get into the box, and she asks if they just change the future by letting him write about blue ghosts, and the doctor sadly reveals that Dickens dies this like pretty soon in 1870, and he'll never get to tell his story. But that even though he was dead in he was just dead in Rose's time, he's more alive now than he's ever been. So it's like they gave him all this like extra time to like be invigorated and happy. And they're gonna give him one last surprise because the TARDIS disappears right in front of him and he just laughs and he walks away, wishing strangers on the street Merry Christmas and God bless us everyone. And by God, we we're talking about Gwyneth right now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, Gwyneth bless us everyone. Everybody knows that the G in God stands for Gwyneth, exactly, and not Paltrow.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's no longer Pity the Gelf, it's Gwyneth bless us everyone.
SPEAKER_01And that is the unquiet dead, y'all. We do have some listener questions, but before we get into it, any any thoughts on this little ending?
SPEAKER_04It's good. Yeah, episode good. Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00It's good. It feels like a the the way it ended felt like a precursor to I mentioned earlier the Vincent Van Gogh episode. That's the one I always think of as far as like a historical figure like wondering if they're gonna matter. Yeah. And then like something tragic happening to them and them not knowing what they're what's gonna happen to their work. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01But y'all, listener questions. Oh, here we go. We have kind of uh questions we can combine. Like, what do you think about the impact of this setting, the tone for like historical episodes to come? Because in these first three episodes of Doctor Who, you get something set in the present day, whenever the companion is, then you we go straight into the future with aliens and stuff, and now we go into the past. So, how do you think that this historical episode sets the tone for what's to come later? Do you like how they jump through time and establish the show? I mean, yeah, very much so.
SPEAKER_03And I I I really liked how it handled the historical episode because um, for the next few seasons, they would have one like in the past with a famous artist episode. There was like the Shakespeare one. Um, they did Agatha Christie, Agatha Christie, my love. Nicola Tesla. Yeah. I think that before the Vincent Van Gogh episode, this was like the best of the bunch. Um, and I really think that like that warmth that exists here, as well as like the fun of meeting historical person and like having it kind of reference their work, but not too on the nose, uh, I think is very fun.
SPEAKER_04I also think it sort of establishes something that they in in like a minor way that they end up doing with historical figures. Uh it maybe until the Vince of Ango episode, which is they they set you up for the like, oh, you think you know this person, but actually, you know. Like, oh, Shakespeare's like young and sexy, or like, you know, like Agatha Christie's a bit more of a mess than you think she is. And and here specifically, you have Dickens who's quite a bit more depressed than you imagine him being. Scroogey, even. Yeah, absolutely. And I think once you get to Van Gogh, it's like, oh no, he is exactly how I thought he would be.
SPEAKER_01I know. It's so sad. So novel, thank you for asking that question. Y'all, let's talk a question from the local goblin. This is the first example of Wales actually being at the forefront in the series setting-wise, particularly Cardiff and the start of the Cardiff Rift. So maybe something. I love how they ask questions. Maybe something about how they managed to make the place they filmed like a big location without it feeling too contrived. How do you think, basically, how do you think they use the setting, like the physical place?
SPEAKER_04Well, I love I love the fact about them doing this, but it ended up shooting them in the foot because they set it in Cardiff to save money and then realized that Cardiff doesn't have that many historical buildings, so they actually had to shoot it elsewhere. Yeah. But I do I do enjoy the nod to the fact that that is where they're shooting in that at the time.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. They ended up shooting most of these exteriors in Swansea and Monmouth, however you say that, I don't know.
SPEAKER_04Because I dumb Americans.
SPEAKER_01We don't know words. I'm still learning how to read. Sorry, everyone. So yeah, I I do love that they shoot in Cardiff to save money, but then they're like, uh oh. But no, Cardiff, like the interiors are great. And then Fruiters, she asks, What do you think about how they later explain that Eve Miles' character in this was related to Gwen and Torchwood and a subsequent trend of lampshading when a guest actor crops up as the main cast in the future? Or do you prefer it like the classic way when they just ignored that shit?
SPEAKER_04I I go back and forth. I don't mind either way. Uh I don't think like and sometimes it sometimes to for me it doesn't even work. Like when the uh the the doctor that is the 12th doctor.
SPEAKER_01Oh yes, Peter Capaldi.
SPEAKER_04Peter Capaldi realizes that he looks like the guy from the Vesuvius episode or not.
SPEAKER_01But not the evil guy from the Torchwood series.
SPEAKER_04Right, exactly, exactly. And so like that that, you know, it I I think when it happens, it happens and it works, it works, you know. Uh this this one just felt a little fun when they when they make Gwen and Torchwood kind of related to Gweneth.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, like, it kind of breaks the fiction a little bit because it like seemed to imply that Gwen was on her own and she dies in this episode. So like I don't know how that she has a family to like remember her and like have this legacy, but like I love it, and I think that the actor is so good here and in Torchwood. So like I think it's a little fun. I think that the that the the decider is how hard they're trying to tie it in with their own narrative. It could be like a fun little thing, and that's nice, but if they try and make it a big plot point, it's not gonna work as well. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and then here's our very fun fact that does not explain any of this. Um, Russell T. Davies was so enamored with Eve Miles that he wrote the role of Gwen Cooper for her, and he initially denied that her two characters were related, but then later in Journeys End alluded to them being related when the doctor asked if Gwen was a family name. I don't know how I feel. I think I'm a person I don't give two shits because I watch soap operas and I have seen so many people play Nick Newman's son on the young and the restless. There have been several Michael Corinthos's. And so I'm okay. Like, I'm not too precious about any of this. Just let it happen. Let the actor do multiple things. It's fine. Listen, England only has 12 actors anyway, so and they're all in Doctor Who. Any other behind-the-scenes stuff. The evil man Simon Callow was previously considered to play the eighth doctor. Fun fact, I think we dodged a bullet because I think Paul McGann is so beautiful, so hot, great audio. Better hottie.
SPEAKER_04Much better. And also seemingly loves Doctor Who, like is willing to come back whenever and just yeah.
SPEAKER_01We love that. I love it so much. I'm glad he got a regeneration scene later.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And then, of course, this episode was supposed to be darker. Uh Mark Gatis said that Gwyneth was supposed to have a brother who died, and then Russell's like, let's dial it back and make it a little bit more of a romp. And then, of course, uh, Gaudis wanted to have more fun of and say that the doctor was mistaken for a woman and by Mr. Sneed, to which the doctor would reply, no, not yet, hinting that time lords can change sex, which is bold if true. We've never seen a time lord change their sex at all.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I d I don't know. I I still don't believe it's possible.
SPEAKER_01I don't think so.
SPEAKER_04Just all white men.
SPEAKER_01All white men. Some of them 4,000 times. And then Gavin, do you want to tell the funny Eve Miles story?
SPEAKER_04Yes, I would love to. Uh, so Eve Miles was already booked doing a theater job when uh she got cast in the show, and her agent was uh told her to audition, and so she went into the audition because she really wanted to work with Christopher Eccleston, and she walked into the audition wearing a t-shirt that uh had two women, naked women, kissing on it, with the phrase I support nudist colonies written above, and just absolutely thought she tanked the audition and they loved her.
SPEAKER_01So and then realized later that homosexuals loved her. Iconic, iconic, iconic behavior, absolutely. I know, and then a few more behind-the-scenes things. They actually had David Tennant in mind when creating Mr. Sneed, which I think would not have worked. I think you do need a stuffy old man.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, he needs to be older. That's and that's not I don't David Tennant would have been too young. He look you go back and you look at the second season of Doctor Who, David Tennant looks like a baby. Yeah, that wouldn't work.
SPEAKER_01A toddler. And even now he still kind of looks like a baby if he shaves.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. I mean, he he has eight, like I got a little sick when he came back as the 14th doctor, and everybody was like, Oh, he looks exactly the same. And I was like, No, but no, he doesn't.
SPEAKER_01Just because he has five children, he is doing great for having five children.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, he's a beautiful man, like, but he's aging like a human does.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. You could calm down, it's fine. It's okay to age. I think most people are getting hotter with age. Look at Sean Connery.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, terrible, terrible thing about that personality, though.
SPEAKER_01Yep, yep. Horrible personality, much like Simon Callow. And then, of course, little things. This is like Gwyneth referencing Big Bad Wolf. Everyone try to remember that later. Other little fun facts, Christopher Eccleston is credited as Doctor Who in the end credits. And that was the this was the first time I've noticed it. And I just crackled. I didn't notice that.
SPEAKER_00I saw it in the credits, and I'm like, wait a minute. It feels like a crime.
SPEAKER_04That does feel yeah.
SPEAKER_00Feels wrong.
SPEAKER_04That's really funny. Because famously, the the um, I mean, I know you guys know all of this stuff, but the but all I can think of whenever anybody actually calls him Doctor Who is the 1960s movies that were made by ham or well, not hammer, but they were made a hammer adjacent because it was the Peter Cushing book. And he was actually Doctor Who in those.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But I knew you guys knew that. I'm not not I'm not here to mansplain, I'm just here to hang out, ladies.
SPEAKER_01I'm here to mansplain. And then my last fun fact, uh, Zoe Thorne plays the Gelth. Uh, she returns later in the sound of drumslash last of the time lords to voice the spheres that contain the toclefane. Those little scary creatures. Yeah. So she, great job being real scary.
SPEAKER_04I I can I can hear that voice.
SPEAKER_01I can hear that voice. And so, y'all, that is the unquiet dead. What a delightful time we have had. Any final thoughts before we skedaddle?
SPEAKER_00The one note I didn't say that I meant to say was talk about a gaslight gatekeep girl boss.
SPEAKER_04That is important. How dare you? I love that. Thank God. Yeah. Uh thank you, Paige, for that.
SPEAKER_03Actually, they invented that in this episode. They really did.
SPEAKER_04They're the originators.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god. We almost had this whole episode without you saying that. What a crime. I had to sneak it in right at the end.
SPEAKER_04How do you? My only final thoughts is I I love the groundwork that this uh paves for later um Doctor Who episodes in doing the historical bits and doing the like the past adventures and whatnot. And and I think obviously, like, what what a little acting playground given to both Rose and Gwen as well, too. And so yeah, I do I do love this episode. I'm so happy that you uh invited me for the for this one because it's the I think this was the one that showed me because the last one is fun the on the space station, and I I love everything about that, but this was like kind of showed me like, oh, we're we're serious about what we're doing and bringing Doctor Who back, like we're really in the game now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like very much the same. Like I liked the first two episodes. This is where I I feel like I really fell in love with the show, and um, which would immediately be tested in the next ones.
SPEAKER_04Yep. We're we're kind of ventures into big bad Beetleborgs territory, but that's okay. It's okay.
SPEAKER_01Oh, beautiful. And then again, thank you, our listeners who gave us questions. Novel Fruiters, Local Goblin, love all y'all. See ya in the Discord. And so, companions, thank you for wandering into the TARDIS today. Remind listeners where they can find you in all your work. Marile, where can we find you in space and time?
SPEAKER_03Well, um, you can find me every Monday on uh your local podcasting feeds wherever you get your podcasts. Um, me and my two friends David and Tyler talk about horror movies on Fear Coded. You can also find us on Instagram and Blue Sky at Fear Coded Pod. And I do run the social medias on those, so just come say hi.
SPEAKER_01And then Gavin, thank you for letting me kidnap you into the TARDIS this week. Where can we find you and all your amazing things you're doing?
SPEAKER_04Uh, once again, you can listen to the mixed reviews or the Q Division, both our monthly podcasts. Uh, there'll be new episodes of each soon by whenever this episode comes out, I'm sure. And you can find their socials uh mostly on at their mixed reviews in various places, including Blue Sky and Instagram, and you can find the Q Division at the same places at Q Division Pod, and you can email those as well. And then I guess if you want to find me, you can find me at sh it's Gavin, that's S-H-H-I-T-S-G-A-V-I-N on Blue Sky or at GavinMev, that's G-A V-I-N-M-E-V on Instagram. And this time when you le drop me off from the TARDIS, can you at least get me closer to home? I had to walk a mile last time.
SPEAKER_01I will get you closer to home, but I cannot guarantee it'll be the same year. So fingers crossed.
SPEAKER_03I mean, honestly, good good luck getting me out of here. I'm gonna, as soon as this recording stops, I'm just gonna go running deep into the TARDIS and I will cop I will pop back up later. Get rid of me.
SPEAKER_01We have a party bus. Don't worry. There's 12 swimming pools, 18 kitchens. I'll put an ensuite into your room. Don't let me room. And both of you are returning. I've got you on the schedule. Yeah. Absolutely. Exactly. And thank you for listening to Across the Hooniverse. We can be found wherever you listen to your podcast. And please make sure to rate and review our show. You can find us on Instagram, Blue Sky, and Tumblr. The links will be in the show notes. It's all across the universe pod. Or you can email us across the universe pod at gmail.com page. Remind the time lords where they can find you.
SPEAKER_00They can find me at Thoughts by Page on Blue Sky. I'm allegedly a writer sometimes, so I'll post stuff on there whenever I do write. I am Hayes Mathers on Tumblr, and I am Page Noel Kaiser on Instagram.
SPEAKER_01Love that. And I'm Chelse 725 on Blue Sky, serialized and letterboxed, and Chelsea on Instagram. And if you can find my Tumblr, then you're stronger than a Gelf. And of course, me and Gavin, Q Division. We have some great episodes lined up for in 2026. Y'all look out. We're gonna have some fun side quests. I cannot wait for y'all to check it out. And yeah. And a rewatch feed, Q Division. We're talking about Selfie, the great Karen Gillen tragically cancelled show. So go find us there. And be sure to join us for our next adventure across space and time as we revisit Aliens of London and World War III with my dearest friend Shannon Kay. And so, until next time, so long.