Across the Whoniverse: A Doctor Who Marathon Podcast
A Doctor Who marathon podcast hosted by Chels & Paige
Across the Whoniverse: A Doctor Who Marathon Podcast
S01E04-05 "Aliens of London" & "World War Three" w/ Shannon Cay
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Time Lords! This week, we kidnapped filmmaker Shannon Cay as we travel to 2006 London.
Our first two-parter of the new era follows the Doctor and Rose Tyler as they accidentally travel forward to London 2006, where Rose has been declared a missing person. As they deal with the consequences of imprecise time-travel, an alien spacecraft flies over London and the city is sent into a lockdown. With the Doctor and Rose trapped inside Downing Street, it's up to Mickey Smith to save the day. Our villains may not be silent but they are very deadly!
We tackle Mickey Smith's zero to hero arc, RTD's fatphobia, and if commenting on world events through art works in the moment. Plus, we ponder if Miss Piggy is a Time Lord and the Hilary Duff Don't Say Gay PSA. Come for the farting aliens, stay for the Invasion of Iraq allegory!
Join us as we travel Across the Whoniverse!
Email us with questions or comments at AcrossTheWhoniversePod@gmail.com
Checkout Shannon Cay's work at Carbon Trace Productions!
RAINN's National Sexual Assault Hotline
Across the Whoniverse
Paige
Chels
...Welcome to Across the Who Universe, a Doctor Who Marathon Podcast. I'm your friendly neighborhood and Time Lord Shells. And I'm your Muppet of a Time Lord Page. And we have a very special guest for this two-parter episode. Somebody who knows all my secrets, I feel like. We've been making movies together forever. I love this person so much. I'm so glad she wandered into the TARDIS. Shannon, how are you?
SPEAKER_04Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me on. Um, I feel like I would like to be a witch of some kind. We all like had our intros, and so I feel like I should come to the table being a witch.
SPEAKER_05I love a time witch. A time witch. Yeah. Perfect. So, Shannon, we have been friends for over a decade. And why was it only within the last six, seven months that we figured out we both love Doctor Who?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think that a lot of it had to do with the fact that a lot of Doctor Who is like, uh, I mean, there for a while it was pretty male-centered. And I think whenever it came around to being a little more female-centered is when we realized, like, oh yeah, this is this is a thing that we like together.
SPEAKER_05It's crazy. So, what is your who hear story? When did you get like interested in the show? Who was like your first doctor? And like, who are some of the characters you love?
SPEAKER_04So I I definitely am I I came into Doctor Who super late. Uh, I came in around the uh the female season, okay? And so it wasn't until actually you invited me onto this podcast that I decided to go back and like really do some re-watching. Um, and I I hate to say it, uh, even though she has her ups and downs throughout these seasons, I really have become to love Rose just because she she has this innocence about her in the beginning of the seasons, and then she really becomes um it becomes really deep there at the end, you know? Um and her relationship with a doctor is um it definitely goes between like a romantic to a dad relationship, and I do think that their tete on tete is the most interesting.
SPEAKER_05I agree. It's very interesting because like we'll see later in this series that she has daddy issues from not being raised by her dad. But I do love that Rose, especially in this first series, she's the character we're following. We're basically Rose throughout most of this, and just the way like we've said it every episode so far. She sees the best in humanity and doesn't even want the bad people to die.
SPEAKER_04Like she's just ready to do what's got to be done as well. Yeah, it seems like she always is ready to give her life for the cause every time, which is problematic. But again, she's good of heart.
SPEAKER_05She really is. She's a good soul, she cares so much. Yes. So, Shannon, before we get started, tell people where they can follow you, any projects you're working on, any fun social medias.
SPEAKER_04Uh, so I am Shannon K across all boards. That's S-H-A-N-N-O-N-C-A-Y. Um, I am a documentary filmmaker, and so you can find all of my work uh at Shannon K.com. You can also log online to carbontrace.org. Uh, and then you can find all the documentary films that Chelsea and I worked on together, and you can kind of get a glimpse into your host here.
SPEAKER_05You're blowing up my spot. I have never promoted these, but to be fair, I barely remember to promote my social media.
SPEAKER_04You are such a wonderful person, Chelsea. And so I just I I really am very grateful that you are giving me this platform and this time to get to connect with your audience uh because you've really built something extremely special and you should be super proud of yourself, dude.
SPEAKER_05Shannon is also my hype person. I will be sending the Venmo for that compliment after the show. But y'all, let's dive into this two-parter because it's the first two-parter of series one, Aliens of London and World War III, episodes four and five, written by Russell T. Davies, directed by Keith Boak, aka Christopher Eccleston's Nemesis. They did not get along throughout their filming, and he might be one of the reasons why he left so early. One of the many reasons. I hope you have some of the tea on that. I mean, that we'll get to. He's not exactly been quiet about it. He's basically, you beat around the bush so much, there's no more bush. It's all out there. They just did not get along. And then, as most people know, series one was kind of a messy production, always going over schedule, over budget, and some poorly behaved men behind the scenes, of course, because it's tale as old as time.
SPEAKER_04I read that even this very episode had a lot of that happening during it because they thought that they were gonna film in one spot, and then anyway, yeah, yeah, there are a lot of setbacks, even in this particular episode series.
SPEAKER_05Oh yes, boy was there. But these episodes originally aired on April 16th, 2005, and April 23rd, 2005. It features the ninth Doctor, Rose Tyler, Margaret Blaine, aka R the Slytheene, Harriet Jones, Jackie Tyler, and Mickey Smith. And it is set in London, March 2006. Wonder how they got a whole year ahead. Let's find out. So, here's the synopsis for both episodes. Rose returns home to discover that she's been missing for a whole year, although for her it's been a couple days. However, before she can explain her absence, a big spaceship crashes into Big Ben, causing a worldwide crisis. Worse, the Prime Minister has mysteriously disappeared. The doctor's investigation puts him in the spotlight with the British government as his long history of defending the earth finally catches up with him. But there are sinister goings on at 10 Downing Street, and politician Harriet Jones' quest to get some answers brings her into a brave new world of aliens. Meanwhile, Rose finds trouble closer to home as her past mistakes threaten to tear her family apart. So before we'd like dive into the second episode plot synopsis, what did y'all think of Aliens in London? Because this is a wild episode. Some things probably haven't aged super well in the last 21 years. What'd y'all think? First impressions.
SPEAKER_04Well, one thing that always always slaps is a good fart joke.
SPEAKER_05And boy, do they have them?
SPEAKER_04Boy, howdy. It does this series have lots of them.
SPEAKER_02That was really funny to us in 2005. Russell T.
SPEAKER_05Davies. He may be a gay man, but he is still a man child. Still a man.
SPEAKER_02I was just gonna say, we'll get into it, but the the fat phobia of it all in both of these episodes is just crazy.
SPEAKER_05We say both these episodes, but especially in the first four seasons of the new era, it's real rough. Yes, it is. Yeah. And then here's our synopsis for World War III. With the threat of interplanetary war looming, the human race prepares for the end, little knowing their enemies lie at the heart of British government. As the Ninth Doctor Rose Tyler and new friend Harriet Jones battle for their lives in 10 Downing Street, the Slatine family set their plans for destruction of Earth into motion. With the world changing around him, the Doctor is powerless, and it seems only Mickey Smith can save the world. What do you think? This is a weird two-parter. And it's a lot of complex relationships and a lot of um interesting slash problematic dynamics, especially with the Doctor and Mickey.
SPEAKER_04So this is where like the daddy issues like really start to peer peer their head. Okay, so while, yes, a lot of the things in this episode are problematic, I do like how at the end of the day they just they close, they bow it all up. It doesn't matter how ridiculous it is, like it gets put together in a little bow. And and there is something charming about that. And you have to give that to it.
SPEAKER_05Remember when TV was just literally episodic, episode of the week, monster of the week, like two parters were like, ooh, we get two weeks of this. It it really takes you back to simpler times. Like it's very small, Vil, in that way. Oh, I miss those. Like, this is very teen drama.
SPEAKER_04The other thing that like I I really, really appreciated about both of these episodes is like I, you know, just with AI and everything like being so silly, practical effects like are important to me. Yes. Like, yes, there is, there's obviously like special effects, like in for what they had in like 2006, but like there's so much costuming, there's like so much um just like slapstick humor throughout the episode. And and I don't know, I I kind of like that.
SPEAKER_05Even something as simple as a walk and talk is so comforting to see because you actually see people going through physical sets, and it's like, oh, we don't need to CG a whole office back here. We can physically walk through places, it's so nice. And yes, the effects, we all joke that Doctor Who's Best whenever it has like$12 and a dream to make, like take away the budget. And I mean, Disney did take away some budget, but I don't know, simpler times, it's just so comforting in many ways. So, with that, let's just dive into our synopsis. Aliens of London, here we go. The doctor and Rose return to London, with the doctor telling Rose she's been gone for maybe 12 hours. And Rose is like going off, going home, see her mom. But the doctor starts walking around and he notices a missing person sign hanging up. And as Rose gets home, Jackie is just shocked and starts hugging her, like, oh my gosh, what's going on? And then Rose like looks over her shoulder and sees all these missing person signs in the apartment. And then the doctor rushes in and is like, whoopsies, it's been 12 months, not 12 hours. Y'all, I love that you know, the TARDIS is never exactly accurate. We've already seen that earlier this season. But boy, oh boy, did they done fucked up this time. What was your impression of that?
SPEAKER_02That's just like it's so wild because that decision like completely changed the dynamic between Rose and her family and also the doctor and her family because they definitely don't trust him now. Cause she was a missing person for a year.
SPEAKER_05They shouldn't. No, it's been a couple days for Rose and it's been in a full year. Like technically, she's legally what 20 years old now instead of 19. Oh, it's crazy. And then smash the credits, always love, bring back opening credit sequences. And we cut back to Jackie shouting at Rose with a police officer present, trying to figure out where the hell she was. And Rose is a fortress, just like not saying anything, just said, I forgot to call you. And the doctor tries to take the blame, saying he hired her as a traveling companion. I mean, the cop, of course, asks if it was sexual, to which they both deny. And then Jackie just slaps the shit out of him and begs Rose to stay where she was.
SPEAKER_04Because she's a good mom. Because she is a good mom. Oh, I cannot imagine um the anger that I would feel.
SPEAKER_02He's so justified for that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I love that she starts the trend of just the doctor always getting slapped, especially by like mothers and everything. It's like, you had this one coming, but I'm I just can't with you.
SPEAKER_04I mean, he's literally 900. He's 900 years old and she is 19. 19. Legally 20.
SPEAKER_05How's that work? But no. Cut to the doctor and Rose are just commiserating up on the roof of the Pala States, like fully laughing that Jackie slapped him. And that's when she learns that he's 900 years old. But then also Rose says in an iconic line, while he's like frantic about, she's like, You're so gay. And I love that to this day people are still up in arms about her calling the doctor gay as a slur.
SPEAKER_02It is that's when Hilary Duff should have popped out and done her commercial where she's like, It's not cool to say that. Do you know what you're saying?
SPEAKER_05I know. And like, I think we're all used to it because we grew up with that in our media, but I am I do love that people are still up in arms, especially the youths, the ones that were born when this was airing. And it's like, oh babes. Right. They have no idea. They have no idea the horrors we lived.
SPEAKER_04I guess like I just like looked at them and I saw their dynamic and like I see that problem. And and honestly, that comment just slid past me. I I honestly didn't even clock that.
SPEAKER_05I think it's just because as three queer women, we're just like, oh yeah, whatever.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's that's how people well, and that truly is how people did talk in 2006. Like, I mean, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Well, people forget one Taylor Swift changed her song lyrics because the original is like, I'm gonna tell my friends you're gay or something. Nobody go look up the black eyed pea song. It's worse. Well, while they're commiserating, a spaceship just suddenly flies over them and just like fully takes out Big Ben. And they're both just excited to watch history happen as the military takes over the city. They run back to Jackie's place where all the neighbors are gathered around her TV, and the presenter says a body was found in the spacecraft. And then we cut to the medical examiner's office where some military general dude comes in, and then our girly from Torchwood, Dr. Sato, everyone go check out the big finish audios for expanded universe stuff, shows him a little creature. And we as the audience haven't seen the creature yet. But he orders her to keep the creature out of sight until the experts arrive. And she asks if the rumors about the prime minister are true, and he just storms on out. And then we just cut to this weird TV broadcast where we learn the prime minister is missing, and some other MP guy, Joseph Green, is shown arriving at 10 Downing Street and wanting to know where the Prime Minister is. But this junior secretary Ganish, he doesn't have any answers. And then suddenly Harriet Jones pops up. And I love Penelope Wilton. The way she just says Harriet Jones, yeah, it's a full name. And she's like, I have an appointment, but they all blow her off.
SPEAKER_04I just also want to point out that, like, as like she first arrives, she is like, you see her, and she's in like really light, bright lighting and clothing and like all everything about her is like really light. Yeah. Um, and it's really funny to watch as the episode moves forward because she gets like sharper and sharper throughout the whole episode. So it's really cool when you see her at the beginning because they have her as like this like nice, light, softly dressed, airy character when she first arrives. And you know, she really as she builds her own confidence, they kind of give her like a sharper look throughout the episode. And it's it's kind of cool.
SPEAKER_05She does remind me of how I imagine you and your past life as a journalist just no nonsense to the facts ready to go, like all complimentary. Y'all don't know. Shannon has like kept my life together so much, you don't realize.
SPEAKER_04Well, and I will say, so like that is what I really appreciate about her character is like she goes in and she, I mean, and and I'm sure we'll talk about this later on in the episode, but she she goes and gets the secretary coffee because, like, like I know as a journalist, like the person in charge really isn't gonna tell you anything. Like, you want to get in with the secretary, because the secretary is who's gonna actually be able to get you to the people that are actually gonna be able to talk to you and give you the information that you need to really move forward with the story.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah. Always befriend the secretaries, the assistants, the wait staff, the help. Anytime you need something, go to the people who actually work there. People in charge actually they don't know shit.
SPEAKER_04Great.
SPEAKER_05This next section makes me giggle, especially the way I typed it. So Agassi Green is informed that he's the acting prime minister and is brought to the cabinet room with MI5 agent Margaret Blaine, played by the hilarious Annette Badlin, who I got to see at Chicago TARDIS, the Doctor Who convention this year. She was funny. Oh my goodness, all the inappropriate stories. I want to be her when I'm her age. Cannot wait. And she tells everyone that the prime minister's vehicle just vanished after she escorted him to it. And Ganesh gives him the emergency protocols before leaving them alone. And after he leaves, Margaret Blaine and Green, they just basically cartoon villain cackle when they're alone. So obviously they're the good guys, right? Right. But no, we cut back to the doctor leaving Rose's apartment, saying it's a little too human-y for him. And he promises to not disappear and gives Rose a key to the TARDIS. I would like one, by the way, Doctor. Please show up. And he says the invasion is real and humans will just have to figure it out for themselves. He's thrilled. He's like, aliens, come visit. I'm one of you.
SPEAKER_04In this scene, I actually love the cinematography in this particular scene because it's really simple, but they have her missing poster in the background. So as she is talking to the doctor, um, it reminds the audience like what you know, what has been going on this whole time, like as he's making his plea. Um, and I really think like the cinematography about a lot of this episode, I think is really cool in the way they mix different types of footage to really craft the story.
SPEAKER_05Oh, all the production design and the movement of the camera. Like you hear about like Netflix wanting more like plain production design, that way when they film it buffers more because there's less in the frame for the like data and stuff. And you're just like, no, we want these rich, lush things, and even something as simple as a TV show from 21 years ago. It's like, give us that, it looks better than most things anymore. Because we notice those details and it matters, it always matters.
SPEAKER_04It puts the story to like a more human perspective, you know, because as you're living your life, you never see things really in just like one way. Like you're seeing it from all these like different angles, uh, because you have legs and you can get up and move around. Um, but that's like the beauty of like what filmmaking used to be and can be, uh, is that you can really see all these different perspectives.
SPEAKER_05Exactly. And so as the doctor's walking away to the TARDIS, Mickey spots him and heads down and just chases after him, but he barely misses him, and the TARDIS just completely dematerializes, and Mickey runs into a wall because he's supposed to be the buffoon, apparently. Yet he's also somehow the nerd. Somehow. So yeah, we will talk more about the treatment of Mickey Smith and how complicated that is, especially with the actor involved. But as we're going, we cut back to Harriet Jones just giving the secretary some tea and like trying to get into the cabinet room, and like he does deny her access, but she lingers around enough that Green, Blaine, and this Oliver Charles guy, they leave and she's trying to talk to them about other business. And I do like that Green is like, like, read the room. There is an alien invasion. I do not have time to look at all these other things. That is very true. Even though he's a bad guy, we get it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but also she's trying to do a job.
SPEAKER_05She's trying to get a thing done. And I love that about her. Exactly. She can multitask. And then we cut back to the morgue where Dr. Sato hears banging in the drawers, and it's like, mm-hmm, something's still alive in there. And then cut back to the doctor heading to wherever the alien is being held and accidentally walks into a room of like police, soldiers, whatever, and they all point guns at him. But then they hear Dr. Sato screaming and run to investigate. She tells them that the alien is alive, and the soldiers leave them to lock the building down. And then Dr. Sato and the doctor hear the alien still in the room, and they spot this scared pig alien thing running on its hind legs.
SPEAKER_04Number one, this is the first of many times in this episode that you are going to see the police being so bad at their jobs.
SPEAKER_05Correct.
SPEAKER_04Yes. They're so they're so very bad at their jobs throughout this whole series. Um, I also really love that like you get this like mini sequence in here about um a damsel in. Distress, essentially, you know, and so like the doctor goes from being this like enemy of the people to a leader just immediately in saving the woman and saving the the scientist who is the damsel in distress because she couldn't just be a scientist. Oh no. No, no, no. Can't just be a scientist. She can't just be a scientist. She has she's a lady scientist, and that's why. Exactly.
SPEAKER_05I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_04Before we move on, I just like wanted to like talk about that little vignette for a second.
SPEAKER_05Oh no, please do, because guess what? The soldiers are gonna continue being bad at their jobs because the pig is running out on its little hind legs and it is scared. It's very obvious that it's not trying to harm anybody. And the doctor tells the soldier cop dudes not to shoot, but they do it anyways. I'm so sad. It is so sad because it was scared and has to die like that. Oh, my heart, it broke.
SPEAKER_02Also, pig aliens just make me immediately think of pigs in space from the Muppet Show.
SPEAKER_05That's where my brain goes. And as we saw from the Gallifrey One convention, Miss Piggy is a time lord. She is.
SPEAKER_02That's confirmed.
SPEAKER_05That is confirmed. My friend got to meet the Miss Piggy Time Lord. I will send you the picture, Shannon. Okay, well, and you have to prep on the whole lore.
SPEAKER_04I'm I'm interested in this whole lore of Miss Piggy.
SPEAKER_05We should do a Miss Piggy episode of the other podcast page and invite Shannon. We have to. That'll be a 12-part series.
SPEAKER_04I mean, she's iconic. She's a diva. She is everything. She is everything.
SPEAKER_02Everything.
SPEAKER_05The doctor wouldn't be able to handle her.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_05We then cut back to Harriet Jones just hiding in the cabinet room as the general, the prime minister, Oliver Charles, and Margaret Blaine are all arguing before the three of them just start farting in front of this general dude, making him uncomfortable. And the general tries to relieve them of their command, but then our little friends start to unzip their heads and they just kill the general as Harriet Jones just watches in horror from her hiding place. And I love that they just zoom in on her face and we get to imagine how they're being killed, just with like blue flashing on her face. It's so cool.
SPEAKER_04So, Chelsea, was that like a budget thing because they were spending their money in other places? Because I feel like they did that a couple different times throughout the episode. And from what I'm hearing from you, maybe it was a budget thing.
SPEAKER_05Oh, it's most definitely probably a budget thing. They did spend most of the series budget on the second episode for all the special effects, like the computer generated ones. But then I also think it's just efficient storytelling because we can imagine something worse than what they can show us.
SPEAKER_04That's a good point. Yeah. I like that.
SPEAKER_05I do too. It's just better that way. Leave things to the imagination. Imagination's scary.
SPEAKER_04Well, and again, that's kind of what I'm saying, I guess, about like the the lighting, the there are just so many like theatrical things that I like about this end of the series.
SPEAKER_05Oh, and then we cut back to Dr. Sato and the doctor looking at this dead pig, which turned out to be just like an ordinary earth pig kind of rewired and placed into the crashing alien ship, much like historical scammer P. T. Barnum would do when he made little mermaid creatures, because the doctor describes it as people making mermaids back then. But y'all, noted scammer, the greatest showman himself, P. T. Barnum, was literally sewing like sea creatures to human remains because he was a horrible person. Horrifying. Exactly. Y'all, real history is so scary. It's worse than what this show can do. And then Sato questions why the aliens would fake an encounter, but the doctor has already boot scoot disappeared. And then here's the fun part. I really like this. Mickey arrives at Rose and Jackie's to tell her that several people, including Jackie, suspected him of murdering Rose and that he was questioned by the police five times in the past year. He unloads on Rose about how he waited for her and how the accusations ruined his life, and he starts taunting her about the doctor leaving her and the TARDIS leaving. And Rose tells Mickey that the doctor isn't her boyfriend and that he's so much more important than that. And then the TARDIS just materializes back in front of them after they do their little walk and talk outside. Y'all, what do you think of Mickey unloading? Because up until this point they've treated him as a joke. And that is one of the worst things I think about this early series. He's the only black character, and he's just made to look like an idiot at every turn. With the doctor just calling him an idiot to his face and not even using his name.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, this part is especially disturbing to me because they really graze over the whole fact that he was like questioned by the police and probably felt really in danger. And we don't get all of the details about that. Like we don't know the effect it had on him. Like, is he okay?
SPEAKER_04The worst part they say, like that they allude to is that like he couldn't date anyone. Yeah. That's like all we get. That's all they get. That's all he gets is well, yeah. I mean, I couldn't date anyone, you know, because I thought I murdered you. So you know.
SPEAKER_05Right. And Jackie terrorizing him. Honestly, I'd be more worried about Jackie than the police. We've seen how terrible they are at their jobs, but you know.
SPEAKER_02That's fair.
SPEAKER_04Well, and do you think that they do that a little bit too because like they're trying to tease out this like redemption story between the two of them?
SPEAKER_05I don't know. Maybe I kinda I don't know. Having seen it all, I think it gets better for Mickey, but I still think that they just kind of did him dirty in the end.
SPEAKER_04Oh absolutely. But I think that like um something that I do like about the episode is that like there is that that relationship between uh the mom and Mickey that like they he saves her in many ways.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and then the doctor actually needs Mickey to help save the world multiple times. I do like that miniature. It's okay, we're all hackers now.
unknownYeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Uh, but then Rose storms into the TARDIS and the doctor just starts rambling, not looking around. And he's like, Yep, saw this, saw that, saw the dead pig, whatever. And then Jackie and Mickey just wander right inside, and Mickey starts fighting with the doctor. Jackie's just straight up freaked out that the TARDIS is bigger on the inside and runs home to report the doctor to the hotline number that's been on the news to report an alien sighting. But when she mentions the word TARDIS, an alarm is triggered, and we see that secretary checking it out at 10 Downing Street. So, yikes. Jackie Dunn accidentally messed up, not realizing it, thinking she's doing the right thing, but remember, the police are not your friend. We go back to the TARDIS where Rose is just apologizing to Mickey, which I'm really glad she does, and he tells her that he looked everywhere for her, and she explains that she's only been gone a few days in her time. They say they missed each other, and Rose asks if he's seen anybody else in the last 12 months, and he's like, No, but mostly because people think I murdered you. And he asks if she's gonna stay and goes in for a kiss, but is interrupted by the doctor. The doctors figured out the alien ship was launched from Earth and just looped around a few times before they faked the invasion, and whoever did it has actually been here a long time. And then he notes that Unit has been called in to deal with the crisis, which we'll do more stuff with unit later in the series. Not for a while, though. Y'all, what do you think of the little Rose and Mickey apology session? Was it enough?
SPEAKER_04Well, I don't think it could like one little conversation's never gonna be enough.
SPEAKER_05Um, not a not after a year of mother and police brutality, probably not. It's complicated. It is what else could she have done, also? She's only been gone for a few days.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, she didn't actually do anything.
SPEAKER_05Exactly. Kind of just a reflection on how shitty our government is. And other governments. But is she falling in love with the doctor? I mean, how can you not? How can you not?
SPEAKER_04Uh so I don't know. I don't I wouldn't say she's not doing anything wrong.
SPEAKER_05She's doing some wrongs, just to get wrongs. Timeline-wise. Nah, it's not her fault, but motions probably. But then we cut back to the cabinet room where our gassy alien trio, and they're just like getting rid of this Oliver dude's skin suit, and another alien has just jumped into the general's body. I like that these skin suits are like onesies to the Slavine family.
SPEAKER_04Just like a little zipper that just like pops on and off.
SPEAKER_05I love it. And like Harriet Jones is just still hiding in this closet, just watching all of this. And then the secretary, he just bursts in saying, It's a code nine. Oh, I wonder what the ninth doctor means. And he has to explain that it means the doctor's been located. And back on the TARDIS, we see Dr. Rose, Mickey, they're watching the TV and he fills them on the organization unit. And Mickey confirms that the doctors worked for them before, having spent the past year researching our favorite alien. And Rose's like, hey, we should go to Unit for help, but the doctor's like, nah, they wouldn't recognize me. It's been a hot minute. And let's just go check out this alien crash now that things are clearing up. You know, let's go investigate Veronica Mars. They exit the TARDIS, but y'all, they're surrounded by like helicopter, military cops. Mickey runs away, somehow getting away. And these are so bad. But the doctor and Rose are just taken to Downing Street. The doctor is asked to join these other experts, but Rose doesn't have proper clearance. So Harriet Jones, she's like, hey, you can hang out with me. Let's do a walk and talk. And then meanwhile, a cop visits Jackie's little apartment to question her and has a little toots, so it's clearly another gassy alien friend or foe. The doctor interrupts the general's briefing and just monologues about this being a fake invasion, and then realizes out loud in real time that the crash, like it caused the people to panic and uh-oh, all of us gathered. This might be a trap. I have to say, doctor, maybe don't monologue out on the outside. Some things are inside thoughts. Don't let people know. You'd think you'd know by now. 900 years.
SPEAKER_02You would think.
SPEAKER_04He is a man. Oh, so he likes to hear himself talk. The doctor, you know. I mean, he should get a podcast or something, I guess.
SPEAKER_05I mean, podcasts were just starting around this time. Let's do this. Oh, so true. Do you think the doctor actually has a podcast at this point? Like in the show that we just don't see, or is those is that the big finish audio stories?
SPEAKER_02It might be. I could totally see him doing that just for fun.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. I feel like he has a live cam set up inside the TARDIS. And he actually has been doing OnlyFans this whole time. Uh honestly, good for them. All the doctors.
SPEAKER_05Thank you. But y'all, now's time for a fun 2005 CGI reveal as our villains. Y'all, this I love this little montage sequence of how it's cut together, so I'll try to like hit the points. Harriet takes Rose to the cabinet room and tells her she saw the aliens kill the general, and the two find the body of the prime minister hidden in a cupboard, and the secretary walks in on it all. The three are caught by Margaret Blaine, who unzips her little forehead and kills the secretary. Then we cut back to Jackie talking to this policeman, and he tells her that the doctor is trouble and his job is to eliminate trouble, and then he starts unzipping his forehead. And then we cut to the doctor asking the prime minister not to fart. But then the general is just like unzipping the forehead as the prime minister decides to electrocute his experts with the ID cards they were given upon arrival. And then they announce themselves as the Slatine, and we're left on a cliffhanger. But not on this podcast. We're gonna cover the next episode.
SPEAKER_04Y'all, what did you think of this little reveal? You missed the silent but deadly joke. Oh. Which one? All 20?
SPEAKER_05Shannon, next time we hang out, we will have a drinking game and watch these episodes and drink every single time they fart.
SPEAKER_04So unfortunately, guys, in my soul, I am a 12-year-old boy. And so I did laugh very hard when that silent but deadly joke was made. So I'm sorry. That was a good one.
SPEAKER_05When I first showed my little nieces this episode over a year ago, the then seven-year-old, she was just cackling at every single fart. And I'm like, you know what? Fair. It's pretty silly. There's an audience for it.
SPEAKER_04It it went up and down. I would get really annoyed with it, but then they would throw in a zinger like the silent but deadly joke. And I don't know. It came back to me.
SPEAKER_02Have to giggle at the absurdity of all of it. I mean, the unzipping the foreheads, the fart jokes, the pigs, it's just everything.
SPEAKER_05Yes. You gotta giggle. You have to go with it. Oh, I just wish they would like unzip it more at the eyebrows or like on like wrinkles on their heads. Like, I got some good wrinkles. You could unzip this forehead.
SPEAKER_01You know, you are gorgeous.
SPEAKER_05Your skin is fantastic. Stop. We'll drop our skincare routines on IG.
SPEAKER_04I batter my face in lotion every day. Just kidding. I mean, I kind of do. Anyway. Basically.
SPEAKER_05But yeah, let's get into our next episode because we're not doing a cliffhanger here. We open our episode with the slitheen being electrocuted as the Dr. Rose and Harriet run away from all their little respective places. And then Mickey gets his hero moment. Even though Jackie has been a bitch to him for the past year, accusing him of murder, he smashes into the apartment, picks up a chair, smashes it over the slatine like we're on, like WrestleMania, and then just takes her out of there. But as they're leaving, he turns around and takes a picture of the electrocuted slithine. I honestly, that is the most realistic part that we would take pictures of the weird shit happening before we left a situation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04I love the the arc that like it carries though, of like even though she has been so terrible to him, he just like puts it all aside and like saves her. And and that's nice.
SPEAKER_05That's so nice. I know. Isn't that lovely? The doctor, he's running out on his own, but he runs out to the military cop peoples because that's what they look like. And he's like, Hey, you want an alien? Go in there. And then Harriet wants to return back to the cabinet room to get the emergency protocols binder, but they're being pursued by Slatine. And Rose is like, uh-uh, gotta boot scoot.
SPEAKER_04Um, and while she boot scoots, they they boot scoot together holding hands. I just love that. I love that for them that they are running away from these people together, but they're holding hands while they're doing it.
SPEAKER_05So cute. And it's like the doctorfication of Rose. Like everybody talks about companions slowly becoming the doctor, and the first thing the doctor did was take Rose's hand and run. And Rose is like, I'm gonna take your hand, we're gonna run, baby. Let's go. We love a parallel. We do. But y'all, the doctor returns to that room with the prime minister with and all his little soldiers, but the prime minister in general act like the doctor attacked them and killed them all. And the doctor like looks around the military cop dudes, and they're like, Yeah, you're you're not gonna believe me if I tell you they're aliens are you? And they're like, No. So the doctor in a Scooby-doo moment just runs away, but the general calls for him to be executed. And then, you know, the military, they're really bad at their jobs, these military cops, because they corner the doctor, and the doctor's like, yo, there's an elevator behind me. Let's go up, up, up. I liked it.
SPEAKER_04I know it's cheesy, but it's cute.
SPEAKER_05It's so fun. I love any time like these military cops look like fools because it's so correct. And then as that happens, the general just isolates the like upper floors of the building, tells them to secure the ground floor and shoot the doctor on site before heading up to see the prime minister. They shed their human skin suits in the elevator. You know, they gotta be free. Feel the rain on their skin.
SPEAKER_04And Margaret Blaine naked around their own family members. I want to point that out, is they're very incestuous.
SPEAKER_05But you know, no body shame. I guess no body shame. But I don't know. I there's there's shame from the writer in the audience will say that.
SPEAKER_04Anyway, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. But as they shed their human skin suits in the elevator, they eventually join Margaret Blaine in the hunt for Rose and Harriet Jones. And the three sniff them out and are about to strike when Harriet tries to sacrifice herself to save Rose, but the doctor bursts in and sprays them with a fire extinguisher, allowing the two women to escape. They run towards the cabinet room to get the emergency protocols and see what procedures they have in there for fighting some aliens. That was so funny to me. I feel like fire extinguishers, we should all have them. Every woman should have a mace and a fire extinguisher and a sword. Always a sword, at least four.
SPEAKER_04So I loved these scenes, but I was. I mean, I loved the Scooby-Doo scenes, but the reason I loved them is because I love the architecture of the building that they're in. Right. And like the architecture in the building is like super on display in this particular part of the episode. And so we just miss real settings so much.
SPEAKER_05We long for actual buildings, character and texture, and production design and physical places. Oh, ban green screen. No, maybe. Who knows? But y'all, the slavene chase after the three when the doctor grabs a bottle of liquor and threatens to triple the flammability of the alcohol to blow them all up. And this pauses the slavene for like a whole minute as the doctor tries to interrogate them, and they like formally introduce themselves and say they're on earth for business reasons, which is technically not a lie, we learn later. But before the doctor can really interrogate them more, they realize he's bluffing with the liquor, and they call him on it. And as the slatheen prepare to end the hunt and kill them, the doctor shows off the cabinet room special feature, a three-inch thick steel walls that seals himself, Rose, and Harriet inside. And nobody can come in, but also they can't get out, y'all. Whoopsies, they're stuck. But with the doctor and company sealed away, the slitheen think it's safe to summon the rest of their family to Downing Street. Out on the streets, the news broadcaster tries to make sense of the random assortment of people showing up because it's like everything from this boat club lady to other like random ministers and stuff. And as they go inside, we learn that they're also Slitheen family members in disguise, and they get rid of their skin suits when they go upstairs. Truly, how many skin suits do they have? This is so many people. Meanwhile, we see Jackie and Mickey back in his apartment trying to figure out what the hell to do. Mickey hates that they might need to ask the doctor for help and starts having a minor breakdown. And we see the slithine policeman dude still trying to sniff out Jackie. But back in the cabinet room, the doctor puts the prime minister and the secretary's bodies into the cupboard and tries to figure out an escape route because we can't just have dead bodies and extras hanging on the floor. We gotta get rid of them and clean it up. He explains to Rose that the Slitheen used compression collars to shrink themselves to fit inside big humans, leading to a gas exchange that causes their flatulence. The original missing prime minister's body was too small, so they couldn't use him as a disguise. And this is where we get some fat phobia, y'all. Paige, I'm gonna let you go off. I don't even know where to start with that. Russell T. Davies has a lot of fat phobia, and we're there's more actions ahead.
SPEAKER_02I just feel like we have to suspend so much belief in this show because it's like so silly. They're actual aliens, they're all these like mystical creatures, but we can't believe that like this big alien could come out of a small body. Why does this have to be the realistic part?
SPEAKER_03They can shrink down, but yeah, not down to that small.
SPEAKER_05They can go from eight feet to like six feet tall and like a bigger person, but you know, can't be skinny nothing, no?
SPEAKER_02And it's more I guess more believable that the bigger bodies would be like the ones far. And being gross, and because that's how fat people are portrayed all the time as being just like disgusting.
SPEAKER_05What the fuck's wrong with these people?
SPEAKER_02It's such a wild choice. And it's like they could they could have done something like so silly to go along with all of the other silliness.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I don't know. There's so many silly things you can do in this show. And this was this wasn't it.
SPEAKER_04And I I would like to point out that um skinny people farts are actually much more harsh. Yeah. You know?
SPEAKER_05My niece. I don't get stuck in a room with her.
SPEAKER_04The tiniest of humans, my son's toots, are the deadliest of them all.
SPEAKER_05And then, y'all, the doctor back in this cabinet room wonders why the name Harriet Jones sounds so familiar. And she just says she's a backbencher MP. And Jones reads through all the protocol and finds them useless as all the people listed as helpers are dead downstairs, all the experts. So these protocols everybody's been worried about, useless. And then Rose suggests a nuclear bomb, but Harriet explains that due to the UK's past, the release codes for a strike are in the hands of the UN. And as they try to figure things out, Rose gets a text from Mickey with the photo of the like electrocuted Slytheen. Y'all, wild choice. I do like that Rose's space phone. This is continuity in action. And they call Mickey, and the doctor admits he needs Mickey's help, like truly under duress, has to give this man a compliment, and asks him to get a computer, log on to the unit website. And while this happens, Jackie is just going off on the doctor about how dangerous he is and asks the doctor if Rose will always be safe. And the doctor doesn't answer because we all know that's not true. She's never gonna really be safe. But once Mickey is logged in, he finds the Slatheen signal transmitted into space. And while the doctor tries to decipher it over the speakerphone, the police slatheen shows up and unmasks, unzips, really. And Mickey grabs a bat and tells Jackie to run. Mickey is a hero, y'all.
SPEAKER_04The theater of the timing in this scene is incredible. I absolutely love the back and forth between the doctor and the mom, and it being just perfectly enough time for Mickey to heck the mainframe.
SPEAKER_05And it's really just him using a password. That's hacking, don't you know? Hacking. You gotta type in the password a couple times. You might mess up one of the characters.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I just I I love that. There was like something that was really charming about that to me.
SPEAKER_05I know. And like, so they're being attacked, Mickey and Jackie. And on the other end of the phone, the doctor, Rose, and Harriet gather everything they know about the slatine, just trying to identify the race because the slatheen is a family thing. We don't know what creatures they are. And then Harriet remembers that their farts smell like bad breath, aka calcium decay. And then the doctor determines they're from. Oh my gosh, let's see if I can say this. Raxa choracophalibatorious. I'm not good at words, so I give myself props right now. And luckily, since these creatures are basically living calcium, they can be hurt by different acidic acids, aka vinegar. So Jackie knows her way around the kitchen. Mickey doesn't. Mickey doesn't know where anything is because he's a man and he doesn't know what a kitchen is. But Jackie finds all of his pickled foods in the kitchen and mixes it all together and throws it at the Siladine and it explodes.
SPEAKER_02Y'all, this is like so silly. Just when we thought it couldn't get more silly, they have to throw a bunch of vinegar at the monster. You know, we got pickles, we got pickled onions.
SPEAKER_04And then they get slimed.
SPEAKER_05They literally get Nickelodeon slimed. Yeah. This this episode was for the children. It was.
SPEAKER_01It was for me.
SPEAKER_05And back at Downing Street, our little Slytheens, Green and the General, sense the death of their brother. And Green goes outside, and because he's the acting prime minister, he announces to the press that the aliens murdered the experts, and they have weapons of mass destruction capable of being deployed within 45 seconds above their heads. And if you were alive in 2003, you were like, damn, okay, Iraq and Tony Blair. And he urges the UN to release the defense codes that will allow the UK to launch a preemptive nuclear strike against the mothership. The doctor listens and fully knows that Green is lying, completely full of shit, and realizes that the Slitheen want the spectacle of an alien crash to create a worldwide panic. That way they get these nuclear codes, y'all. And the doctor decides to unseal the cabinet room as he's monologuing aloud again. And he sees the Slitheen on the other side and explains that they plan to launch the missiles at other nations to trigger World War III. And Margaret Blaine then jumps in. She's like, I'm gonna explain this. The Slithene, we're gonna wait out this nuclear holocaust in our ship. We're gonna be parked over there. And once it's all done, we're gonna sell this radioactive remains of the Earth bit by bit to the rest of the galaxy as an alternative fuel source. You know, this is a business trip for them. Which honestly, they did not lie about. And the signal the doctor was trying to decipher from Mickey was an ad to the rest of the universe saying Earth is for sale. The doctor tells her to leave. And whenever she sneers at him, being like, nah, I'm not going anywhere, he reseals the cabinet room, and then Blaine looks a little shaken. She's like, I didn't like that. He's probably got an idea in his head. What'd y'all think of this little sequence in the World War III? We're gonna sell the Earth to other planets. Capitalism, y'all. The economy is bad everywhere, you know. I mean, they're in a recession in space. In space, even in hope.
SPEAKER_04Okay, Star Wars. I do think that it is a fun, um, a fun way to like link back to how times are like so the same as they were, you know, how like sometimes like a lot of things change. Like, obviously, as we're watching this episode, like a lot of things have changed, and I'm very glad about that. But also a lot of things are still kind of the same.
SPEAKER_05A lot of structures and um institutions are still the same.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_05And so, y'all, they all have a little sleepover in the cabinet room, other people in Downing Street on the other floors. And the next morning, the slatheen gather in the prime minister's office just to await the call from the UN. And then Jackie calls the doctor asking what they can do. And the doctor admits, there is an option, but Rose might not be safe. And Jackie shuts it down before she can even hear what it is. And Rose is like, nah, do it. I don't care about my safety. We're gonna save the planet. And then eventually, throughout all this bickering, Harriet Jones steps in as the only elected official and orders the doctor to do whatever he needs to do. And, you know, we will be foreshadowing some of her other adventures later in the series. The doctor, back on the phone, walks Mickey through the hacking the Royal Navy system and has him launch like a non-nuclear missile headed directly for Downing Street, right as the UN decides to release the nuclear missile codes. And the missile is picked up on radar, but Mickey stops the countermeasures taking effect because he's a hacker. Y'all, these computers, they were probably still using like dial-up.
SPEAKER_04The computers are beige. I know I that was something that I noted in my in my notes here.
SPEAKER_05Remember when we had beige computers and you could just like take a washcloth and clean the outside?
SPEAKER_04Well, and I noticed that they were they were putting stickers on the computers, and I was like, oh, we've always been putting stickers on the computers.
SPEAKER_05That's always put stickers on stuff. See? We've been putting stickers on computer. Yeah. I know. I love a sticker. But with the missile heading to 10 Downing Street, the police run inside to evacuate the prime minister. But you know, the slithine, they were feeling the rain on their skins, they were being free, body positive in their own way. And the police see them in their alien form and they're like, never mind, we're going to boot scoot on out. Um, bye. Do what whatever you need to do. And then the missile hits 10 Downing Street, killing all the slitine. But guess what? The Doctor, Rose, and Harriet Jones survive only after taking covered and taking cover in the cupboard of the sealed room. I don't think this is how missiles work. I don't think the three-inch steel would be super helpful, but this is a science fiction. What y'all think of this? We're gonna blow up a building to kill the aliens.
SPEAKER_04I liked it! I know it's ridiculous. I know that it's ridiculous, but like it was going there. Like it was very obvious that it was going there.
SPEAKER_05Do you need the sealed room for your toddler?
SPEAKER_04Uh, truly, with the way that I mean, I not to like get political, but like I'd love a I kind of would love a sealed room, you know.
SPEAKER_05Don't worry, we're gonna design your bunker. Don't worry.
SPEAKER_04You know, um, I I do think it's funny just because they had previously put dead bodies in that room. Uh, if you remember earlier in the episode, so what they didn't include is that at some point they had to have taken the dead bodies out of the room. They had to show us that.
SPEAKER_05Show us that part. Personally, I think it would have been funnier if, like, in the morning the doctor and Mickey somehow mobilized the police cops with like water guns of vinegar and pickle juice and had them just go in and super soaker everything to save the day. I thought that would be funnier.
SPEAKER_02But I was gonna say that'd be a lot less destruction than like blowing up a whole building.
SPEAKER_05They could have saved on their budget.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But and also super soakers.
SPEAKER_02That would have been perfectly silly.
SPEAKER_04But they saved all their money so they could do that. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02They needed an explosion, I guess.
SPEAKER_05Explosions. It is, that's true. This is an action show now. They got some budget. But back outside after the explosion, Harriet Jones just takes charge. And like wondering aloud how they're gonna fix things without a prime minister, the doctor suggests she do the job. And, you know, she's like, uh, whatever, not so sure about that. But she takes control of the emergency services. And as she's speaking to the press, the doctor and Rose just quietly step out of there that, like me at a party, I'm just gonna disappear and you're never gonna see me again. And then he reveals to Rose that Harriet will become prime minister and is elected for three successive terms and is the architect of Britain's golden age. But back at Jackie's apartment, Rose watches the TV with her mom, and Jackie wishes Rose or the Doctor got credit for saving the world. And like Jackie's kind of changed her tune on the doctor. She says that Rose is infatuated with him and that she's ready to listen and learn more about the doctor, and she's off to make dinner, a little bit of shepherd's pie for all of them. But the doctor calls Rose from the TARDIS and he's like, Don't worry, I'm canceling the Slovene's like advertisement signal out here in space. Don't worry. And Rose is like, you gotta come over for dinner. My mom wants to talk to you. And because the doctor doesn't do commitment, he refuses dinner and you know, tempts Rose with another adventure. Jackie then sees Rose packing and asks her not to go, but she doesn't answer her mother. We cut to the doctor and the like outside the TARDIS and the kid who did the graffiti of Bad Wolf on the side of it, like cleaning it up. I thought that was an amazing little detail.
SPEAKER_04Like I love that.
SPEAKER_05Does Bad Wolf mean something? It does throughout this first season. It builds, it builds. See, you have so much fun getting to watch all this for the first time. We're gonna invite you back for later in the season now. I've decided in this very moment. I'm excited.
SPEAKER_04Because yeah, again, I yeah, I'm I'm it was really it was really cool to do this. So thank you.
SPEAKER_05Yes. See, listeners, Shannon said gay rights, and whenever she saw a hot blonde woman become the doctor, she's like, I need to start that show.
SPEAKER_04I think I gotta start that show.
SPEAKER_05That's so correct and so fair. That is very valid. But Mickey stops by the TARDIS to talk to the doctor and show him how the press thinks it was all a hoax. Oh, bless their hearts. The doctor gives Mickey a virus to wipe out all mentions of him off the internet because it's not safe to have people being able to track him and figure out who he is.
SPEAKER_04With a C D by the way.
SPEAKER_05With a C D. Remember CDs. I still buy those. And you know, the doctor has a nice moment. He invites Mickey to join them, but Mickey admits that the doctor's world isn't for him, but don't tell Rose that. And I thought that was a very cute moment because then it kind of wraps up with Rose coming with Jackie, and Jackie's like, You sure you're gonna leave? Why don't you stay? Come on. But Rose approaches the doctor, like ready to go on more adventures, and invites Mickey to join them. But the doctor, like respecting Mickey's wishes, pretends he's not welcome, and like does Mickey the solid of like Mickey not when you say, Um, I'm a little too scared for this. That spaceshit's not for me. No, thank you. Do not need any of that adventure. And then Rose tries to tell her mom that she can come back whenever, even in 10 seconds. And so Rose and the doctor, they're in the TARDIS, it dematerializes. And I love this beautiful moment of Jackie waiting 10 seconds to see if Rose comes back. And when she doesn't, she just turns around and walks home. Mickey, on the other hand, he throws away the newspaper but stays in the streets and keeps on waiting. And that is our two-parter. Y'all, what do you think of this lovely ending? Because I'm telling you, this ending really works for me.
SPEAKER_04I I love it when stuff gets tied up in a bow. I I can't help it. Uh, it just it does soothe my my dumb little brain to tie it all up together and and move forward with the a pretty little story. And I do think that this does that.
SPEAKER_02It's really satisfying, and I like that it it does have that conclusion with the Jackie and Mickey since there was so much turmoil at the beginning of the first episode with them. So it's nice that they all kind of worked it out.
SPEAKER_05I love it. Snoop loves it too. He's been whining in the background, he's telling us about it.
SPEAKER_04Also, a little detail that like uh I noticed is that Mickey is a conspiracy theorist. Uh if you like looked, but like in if you like see the shot of him like in his room as he's like doing the hacking, he has different uh folders that are like UFO, pyramids. Like that's so funny. Again, production design details, it builds character, and like it also I think tells a little bit of a story of like what he's been doing in that whole year since like the doctor's been away, and I think it adds to why he does not want to be a part of it.
SPEAKER_05Mm-hmm. He's he's researched, he's seen too much, and he sees the light, yeah. Oh, it was lovely.
SPEAKER_04So it was a great episode, and um, again, I I had such a good time getting to watch it. So thank you for giving me the opportunity.
SPEAKER_05Of course, and now we have some listener questions. Fruiters asks, do these episodes still hold up? I always hated the farting, but the fat phobia is so hateful, and I find re-watching it difficult. So we've touched on this a bit already. I would say, of course, the fat phobia is still hateful. Not all it the farting really depends on your humor, and I don't think it works in the context of the fat phobia, really. But in general, I think the ideas of this episode hold up just because of the politics of it all. I think that part of it holds up. What do y'all think?
SPEAKER_02I agree with that. Like, obviously, those parts we talked about are difficult to watch, but you also kind of have to look at how it was in the time and also just take it as that was what the writer thought, and which is horrible, but it doesn't say like everything about the TV show, and it's just you kind of have to separate it.
SPEAKER_04I think the core of the episode is like the when when times are like really in despair, like we really need our community, and I definitely think that that message still holds up, yeah. But but yes, obviously a lot of like the particulars throughout the episode are are trash, but at the end of the day, like God, we all just really need each other.
SPEAKER_05We really do, and that is still very true today. And then the local goblin, our friend, yo, um, do you notice when there's Easter eggs in the show at all? And are there any you'd like to see referenced in the show? So this I think is more of a general question. Doctor Who's always got little Easter eggs? So for this, like code nine is like ninth doctor related, and then like a cut scene for the end of the world, whenever they scan the doctor's DNA. It's supposed to have like nine different strands to indicate nine doctors. But luckily that got cut out because that ended up not being true later on. What do you do you like Easter eggs and all the little meta references? Are you just like smooth brain? Let's just go into this clear eyes, full heart.
SPEAKER_02I love an Easter egg, especially upon rewatch, like finding all the little nods to things that are to come. I'm like, oh, that's brilliant. I love it.
SPEAKER_05True. Especially the bad wolf of it all.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_05Which Shannon will learn more about later. This is back when it was 13 episodes.
SPEAKER_04I'm very smooth brain over here. So I'm just I'm along for the ride right now.
SPEAKER_05And you know what? That's okay. Doctor Who's for all the brains. And then we have another more complicated um topic from the local goblin. How do you feel about how the fandom treats Mickey? The character, obviously, we can't support the actor because of his misconduct allegations, especially since it happened on the Doctor Who set and his recent arrest, sexual assault allegations. But just in general, for the character, how do you feel about him, particularly due in what we learn about this episode, him being the main suspect and his girlfriend's murder for a year and how Nine treats him? I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I think we did talk a lot about this, but I think there's definitely a part of it that occurs with other companions as well, where part of the fandom gets really mad at whoever um the companion's partner is because they want them to be with the doctor. If they're like determined to ship the doctor and whoever the companion is. We also saw this with Amy and Rory, with some people being like, I hate Rory all because he was keeping her from the doctor, which is not true. And 12 and Clara with Danny. Yes. So there's always gonna be that element apart from all the like obviously horrible like racism and all that treatment of Mickey.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I think I think the idea of there being kind of this kind of dum-dum figure who learns and grows, because we do see Mickey start on a journey of kind of just being a simple guy with a simple life, and then he grows up and does become a hero, and we see that journey really start here more than the Rose episode. But yeah, I think just be the optics of it all, the only black character being basically a victim of police brutality in this. It's really difficult to reconcile all of that. And so, you know what? In the show notes, we're gonna like drop some resources, especially since actor Noel Clark is not a great dude. We're gonna put some resources in there if you're a survivor of any of these sexual assault experiences. It's it's just really tough. Like, it's a very complicated thing. But let's talk about some other random notes of this, because y'all, this episode is very related to the real world. The moment they said weapons of mass destruction, we all thought of the 2003 invasion of Iraq and the actions of Prime Minister Tony Blair. But I think one insane thing Russell T. Davies admitted was he wanted the original prime minister, like the dead body to resemble Tony Blair, and he was upset when the actor didn't. Russell, my guy, Tony Blair crimes, obviously. But my dude, maybe we don't have that kind of imagery of dead politicians in a TV show that's supposed to be a family show with farting aliens. Shannon, I feel like you got thoughts.
SPEAKER_04Well, it's just like I guess to me, in this case, it's a I don't I don't know, it's hard for me because I I wanted Say pick a lane, you know, like figure out, like if you're trying to, like, you know, so so like when they decided to have the alien as a pig, I was like, is there symbolism in this? Is there, but sometimes you just don't need to look that deep. And like, I think this is one of those cases of like, I'm I'm watching for escapism. I'm not necessarily watching it to like make a political stance either way. And so that's just a really big swing of having that particular kind of imagery matched with like a lot of silliness. Um, because something like that, I'm not saying there's not a place for that type of art, because I think a lot of different things can be art and a lot of different impressions. Um, you can have a lot of different impressions. It's not about your impression, it's about the intent of the artist. But also, is this the place to be displaying it, you know?
SPEAKER_05And I think things like the weapons of mass destruction and that talk and like the capitalism of it all, the imagery of just politicians ready to go to war, set off nukes. I think seeing that in this show and then seeing how it's resolved and you're able to avoid a lot of violence, I think that is really helpful. But whenever you're just trying to have a bit where it's a guy that looks like a living prime minister and you just want to show him as a dead body, I think that's where it gets a little too dicey for me. And it's like, maybe we just try to stick to the allegory and the story of this and not just a one-off thing that might make you laugh. I don't know. It's again, it's complicated. This is a dicier episode than I originally thought. We all thought it was farting aliens, but no, it's Iraq.
SPEAKER_04Well, and I mean, and at the time, like, yeah, I think like a lot of writers were just trying to find ways to shoehorn that type of content into their programming because it was like such a hot button issue. And so people just wanted to talk about it. I mean, in the same way that like we today do that with with programming, you know. Um the problem is that like when you take things that are really serious like that and you try to like paint a really broad brush, um, it really doesn't tell you the whole story. And so, therefore, like this mass audience you're trying to allegedly bring information to, um, it doesn't ever hit home the right way.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I think about that a lot with my work. So I'm sorry, I could blab on about that forever.
SPEAKER_05We could. We were both we're both media teachers. My goodness. Can you believe?
SPEAKER_04Just shows how we're old, Shannon. How tenured we are, you mean?
SPEAKER_05We are experienced peoples. Yes, yeah. And so, yes, let's just talk about a few other little notes. The doctor repeatedly calls Mickey the name Ricky throughout this episode. And it is like a disrespectful bit because the doctor is not bothering to learn this man's name. But then in series two, whenever we get to Pete's world, we go to the alternate universe. Uh, Ricky Smith is the alternate universe version of Mickey. So that's kind of a little foreshadowing, Easter egg, whatever we want to call it. And then, of course, my favorite thing we already talked about. It's the first time in the revival series that the doctor is slapped by a woman, and it's a trend that just keeps on going. You know what? Slap that doctor. Just bam. He deserves it. He deserves it. He accidentally came back at the wrong time and kind of ruined people's lives.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Shannon, this has been so fun. Thank you for wandering into the TARDIS today and letting us kidnap you. Remind the listeners where they can find you and all your beautiful work and documentaries. So you can find me across all platforms at Shannon K.
SPEAKER_04That's S-H-A-N-N-O-N-C-A-Y.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And thank you for having me, Chelsea. Thank you for having me, Paige. Um, I just really respect what you two are doing. Um, I think that being able to escape into shows and being able to like really immerse yourself into things that you used to love. Um, it it really brings perspective into like your everyday and like how you are shaped. So I think it's really great what you two are doing.
SPEAKER_05Yes, thank you. And we're gonna kidnap you more for more TARDIS adventures. So stay tuned, everyone. I love Shannon so much. Uh, and thank you for listening to Across the Universe. We can be found wherever you listen to podcasts. Please make sure to rate and review our show. You can find us on Instagram, Blue Sky Tumblr. The links are gonna be in the show notes, or email us at across the universepod at gmail.com. Paige, remind the Time Lords where else they can find you.
SPEAKER_02They can find me at Thoughts by Paige on Blue Sky. I am Hay Smithers on Tumblr, which I forget I have, but I need to use more. I am uh Paige Noel Kaiser on Instagram. I also am on the podcast, my stories are on with Chelsea talking about reality TV and soaps and gonna start doing some scripted TV over there as well. And finally, I have a substack that's called Girlhood and Low Resolution, where I talk about growing up as a girl on the internet in the 2000s and the pop culture of that time.
SPEAKER_05And it's fabulous. I expect a full post about Hilary Duff's gay PSA. I really should. You really should.
SPEAKER_04I'm really excited to tune into this. I cannot wait to get into the Sunstag. Thank you.
SPEAKER_05And I am Chell 725 on the Blue Sky, the serialized, which is TV letterboxed, and occasionally real letterboxed. And sometimes I'm Chell Cycles on Instagram. And if you can find my Tumblr, you're stronger than a Slatheen, you can listen to me and my fellow agent/slash companion Gavin, who's gonna be on our next episode. He is we we do this little pod called the Q Division, a James Bond movie marathon podcast. And it's available wherever you get podcasts. Gavin has watched all the James Bond movies, and I'm watching them all for the first time, and we talk about how gay they are. And guess what? It's a lot gayer than you think. And I can also be heard on shh, my stories are on. We're talking everything from the traitors and RuPaul's drag race to fun things like Bridgerton and soap operas. Me and Jesse are recapping Beyond the Gates every few weeks. It's so much fun. And then, of course, the sister pod to that is the and a rewatch feed where we've talked about Mythic Quest community, the TV show Selfie. It's so much fun. And be sure to join us for our next adventure across space and time as we revisit Dalek with again our friend Gavin. So, everyone, thank you for listening, and we'll see you in the time vortex.