Across the Whoniverse: A Doctor Who Marathon Podcast

S01E11 "Boom Town" w/ Shannon Cay & Merrilee O'Neil

• Season 1 • Episode 10

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Time Lords! This week, we kidnapped our favorite witchy Time Lord Shannon Cay and Silly Lil Guy Time Lord Merrilee O'Neil from the Glitterjaw Queer Podcast Collective as we visit the Cardiff Rift in 2006. 

The Doctor, Rose Tyler, and Captain Jack Harkness make a day-trip to the Cardiff Rift to refuel the Tardis and get brunch with Mickey Smith when they encounter their Slitheen foe from earlier this season, Margaret Blaine. Stranded on Earth, she finds herself in office and building a nuclear power plant in hopes of using it to power her extrapolator and get back home. The Doctor apprehends her and vows to return her to her home planet but Margaret reveals she's been sentenced to death and taking her back would mean killing her. 

Doctor Who does My Dinner with Andre as our hosts debate the show's moral dilemma of the Death Penalty and if reformation is possible. Shannon waxes poetically about filming on location, beautiful cinematography and real, unfiltered faces. Plus, the gang calls out Mickey's love-bombing of Rose Tyler and toxic boyfriend culture of the 2000s, and our Time Lords build themselves a Tardis team. 

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Chels

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SPEAKER_01

Welcome to Across the Hooniverse, a Doctor Who Marathon podcast. I'm your friendly neighborhood Time Lord Chelsea. And I'm your Muppet of a Time Lord, Paige. And y'all, we've kidnapped two of our favorite companions again. We had to have a girls' night. This is all girls, gays, and they's. Marilee Shannon, welcome to the TARDIS. What kind of Time Lord are y'all? Shannon, last time you said you were a witch, are you still a witchy time lord? Um, okay, so this witch has gotten much sillier uh since we last spoke.

SPEAKER_02

So I don't know. So I am uh a silly witch, time lord. Can we can we just like stack it all together? Heck yeah, we can.

SPEAKER_01

We can do whatever we want. I love that. Marile, what kind of time lord are you today?

SPEAKER_00

I just I'm a s I'm just a silly little guy. I just I don't know whether it would even count as a time lord, but I'm just just you know, if if you picture like a um an animal walking along the the side of the street on the opposite side of the road as you, that's me over there. I'm just a silly little guy. And aren't we all just silly little guys at heart?

SPEAKER_01

You know? Yeah. Exactly. So, y'all, I always ask more silly billy questions at the beginning of this, but to stay on theme with this episode where we have so many companions, um, we see Rose, Jack, and Mickey working as a team with the doctor this episode. Here's your homework. If you could team up with any three companions for an adventure, who would they be and what would your little adventure be? What are you doing? Shannon is ready. Shannon does her homework.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, okay. Are you guys are you guys ready? Absolutely. I'm so curious. Okay, all right. So um I took Yasmin from the Judy Foster, um, Wilfred Mott.

SPEAKER_01

Although Jodie Foster should be on Dr. Jody Whitaker, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, no. Now I want Jody Foster in like freaky Friday mode to be on Doctor Who. Thank you. Please, please.

SPEAKER_02

It is the hair. I take it back. That's the kind of time wizard I am. That's the kind of time lord I am. Anyway, um, okay, all right, all right. Um, Wilfred Mott and then Clara Oswald. Okay. Okay, so I liked this mix um bringing them all together on an adventure because I felt like it was a really well-balanced cast. Um, you know, and and I I do try to be as inclusive as possible, you know. And so I do feel like all of these characters, no matter what kind of a situation we would go on, we would always have them bickering amongst each other. Perfect. I think they would all hate each other in a way that they would definitely see me as the leader so that we could really pull whatever hijink we got into out.

SPEAKER_01

And it'd be that kind of hate where like they love to give shit to each other, but if somebody outside of that messed with them, they would like throw hands. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01

Anyone else have their team?

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah, my team did not was not well considered, uh, like Shannon, who really put in the work and effort here. I just thought that I really think that Donna and Amy Pond would work really well together and like a ginger team up. And obviously, uh, if Amy is there, also Rory is there, who's one of my favorite companions anyway. Um, and I think that that would be a really fun mix of energies.

SPEAKER_01

I think the doctor dies in that scenario because they all are gonna kill him at any point. Good.

SPEAKER_00

I love this.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Mine's really easy because I'm just bringing all my favorite gals to brunch. I am going to bring Yaz, of course. I'm gonna bring Martha, but also give Martha a gun because I feel like she deserves one. She should at least be able to slap the 10th Doctor a few times. And then, of course, I want Bill there because she's gonna make everybody gay and it's great. She's gonna help Yaz through the coming out journey. It's gonna be wonderful. And also, maybe we get some free chips out of it. I'm really excited for this. I love this for you. I know. I just want to go to brunch.

SPEAKER_02

That's what I was gonna say. What restaurant would you guys go to?

SPEAKER_01

I I don't know if you guys could decide. Shannon, where's that place we went to brunch?

SPEAKER_02

What time? It's like we went to brunch once.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like trying to think of all the places we've been to brunch, and it's been so many places. The one on C Street. Is it Van Gogh's? Van Gogh's I think it is Van Gogh's she's talking about. I think it is Van Gogh's because you took a really cute picture of me outside of the restaurant. You've also been with me to Van Gogh's. Okay, uh, listeners, one time it was either on my birthday or the day after my birthday. Basically, two days in a row, I went to Van Gogh's with Paige and then another friend of ours, Liz. And you know what? Great time. Ordered different things each time. I I love Van Gogh's. Very important to the Doctor Wooniverse. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Everything on C Street is a gym.

SPEAKER_01

What more could you want? I would like to know Paige's team because it's gonna be great no matter what. There's no wrong answers. There are no wrong answers.

SPEAKER_03

I could think of a wrong answer, actually. Oh. Adam and Mickey don't count. Okay. I was gonna say that'd be the wrong answer. Yeah. All right, that would be the wrong answer. So my companions would be obviously River Song because she's my wife. That's your wife, of course. We're legally married. Um, Yaz, of course. Of course, because you have a pretty more gay in there, and then Belinda, because my girl Belinda did not get the ending she deserved. Deserved better, maybe deserves a date with River and Yaz and you. Yes, we need to see her in that club. So that would be my adventure is that scene that we missed of them in the club.

SPEAKER_01

And if people don't know, like I guess spoilers for 15 seasons ahead of time. There's released promo photos of the 15th Doctor and Belinda in the club partying dancing their asses off. And that never happened in the thing in the series because they reshot so much of it and is a hot mess. Season 15 is gonna be wild. That might be our drinking season. I have a follow-up question for Paige.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Uh, if you could put a soundtrack to whatever they were hearing in the club, what would it be? Oh, that's very important.

SPEAKER_03

This is so difficult. It is really hard. My mind immediately goes to like 90s, early 2000s, like club classics. Yeah. That that might be our brunch. There's as well. There's like a lot of Usher in there. There's like, you know. Oh, that's a totally different vibe. Oh, I love that. Oh, yeah. We're getting down in there.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like because I've been making my Bridgerton playlist for the gay season coming soon, I am just all like Hayley Kyoko, Chapel Roan. We're just gonna go hard on all the queer gals. Obviously Tegan and Sarah, but like specific albums, they're more recent ones. I love that we are so far astray. This is what happens when you're in the TARDIS. Sometimes you just take little pit stops here and there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But it's for the details.

SPEAKER_01

The TARDIS takes us where we need to go.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, where we need to go.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And we need to go to brunch and the club. Mm-hmm. But yes, before we get too far, Shannon, where can people find you on social media and all the beautiful projects you do? Because you make so much cool stuff.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you. Um, so you can always find all the stuff I do. I'm across all platforms at Shannon K, and that's S-H-A-N-N-O-N-C-A-Y. Uh, you can also find me at my website, and that's Shannon KCreative.com.

SPEAKER_01

We love that, everyone. Go check it out. Marile, tell everyone about your podcast and your social medias where they can find all the cool shit you do.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well, I happen to be one of the three co-hosts of the Fear Coded podcast, where we take a single piece of media for um, like anything, TV shows, movies, books, anything um in within the horror genre, and we take a queer reading of that media. Um, it's a really good time. I love doing it. Um, and we release episodes pretty much every Monday. We've slowed the tempo down, but at least three times a month on a Monday, there will be a cool, queer episode in your ears. Uh, and you can find us on Instagram, YouTube, and Blue Sky at fear coded pod.

SPEAKER_01

And if you want to hear their scariest episode, subscribe to the Patreon where they talk about the scariest thing Marilee's ever watched, and that is the Christmas film Elf.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, I I have really bad secondhand embarrassment. Um, and so watching that movie is physically painful for me. So I I I wouldn't watch it until they paid me money to do it. So And they literally paid you money. And they literally paid me money to do it. So I was happy to complete my end of the contract. I'm also happy to never have to watch it ever again. So um, really, that's that's a that's a treat for me. Anytime anybody wants to, it's like, I've already have the proof of all of my opinions right there for you.

SPEAKER_01

And don't worry, your elf little pen is in the mail because that's what Alamo accidentally sent me. Why would you do that to me? Because I'm evil. I'm fear-coded.

SPEAKER_00

Or you could instead of doing that, you could listen to a really excellent episode with Chels when we talked about whatever happened to Baby Jane last year for pride. It was a really good time.

SPEAKER_01

You mean baby Jane No?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01

Whereas I've been calling it Baby Jane Don't because I have to combine all of my shows and my brain. But y'all, let's get back to the Hooniverse because we're going way back in time to 2006, is where the TARDIS lands, about six months after the events of Aliens of London slash World War III, which everyone go listen to that episode with Shannon. It was wonderful. It was so much fun. This one, Series 1, episode 11, Boomtown, writer, Russell T. Davies, director, Joe Aaron, originally aired on the 4th of June 2005. It features the ninth Doctor Rose Tyler, Captain Jack Harkness, Mickey Smith, Margaret Blaine, aka Blongfell Fetch Fotch, Pasimir de Slatine. I will struggle with every single name. And yes, this is set in September 2006 in Cardiff. And here's the TARDIS Wiki synopsis of this episode. The Night Doctor and his companions, Rose Tyler and Jack Harkness, travel to modern-day Cardiff and meet up with Rose's boyfriend, Mickey. There they discover their enemy, Blonde Fell Foch Pasimir de Slatine, is very much alive, without an easy escape route from Earth, and is willing to rip apart the planet to ensure her freedom. And you know what? I support women's rights and wrongs. Good for her. So, y'all, what were your overall impressions? Do you remember the first time you watched this episode? Shannon's a champion, and it's probably recently because she jumped on the Doctor Who train when there was a hot gay lady at the pilm.

SPEAKER_00

Which is so real and valid, and I love that for you.

SPEAKER_01

That is so real. It's like we see something like hot lady, I'm in. Turns out to be queer. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So when I watched this for the first time, which was earlier today. Now I watched it several times since then. Okay. I I that's I do very thorough research. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

But four to two minutes. You can watch it a couple times a day.

SPEAKER_02

That's what I well, and I got it from my public library, you know, always got it rented through a hooplaw. So anyway, plug plug my local libraries. Anyway, um, so ups and downs. Yeah. A lot of emotion coming through here. Um, and like the reason that it was like ups and downs is just because like this was set 20 years ago, right? And so a lot of things that like, you know, uh generally, generally were accepted by our society 20 years ago, uh super not cool now. Yeah. Um, definitely not. And so it was really wild because so much of the writing like is gets weirdly progressive. And then like something happens that like ah, everything gets like brought back to this like one dilemma. Um so I guess like my overall like impression was like, what a great, you know, especially like now knowing the post, like what a great way to tell a moral dilemma and have a solid filler episode, frankly.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. We love just those world-building episodes where you can just hang out with the crew because I just like did not remember so much of this episode, even though I rewatched it like a year or so ago. I'm like, wait, not that much actually happens. They're kind of just stuck there for a day and have like a moral dilemma about the death penalty, which was a pretty big conversation in 2006. And even now, Marilee, what do you think? Do you remember the first time you watched this? Or were you like, damn, this is what happened?

SPEAKER_00

No, I I remember this episode pretty distinctly, which I would have surprised me if you told me that in 2005. I though I have to say, if you told 2005 me a lot of stuff, I would be very surprised uh how things turned out. Um video chats. Who knew? Who knew? Um, yeah, so so I watched the episode and I remember when it first aired thinking, uh, the fucking Slavine again, because I did not enjoy Boom um the uh the Aliens of London, World War III. I just I don't think fart jokes are very funny. I thought it was like really fat phobic, and I um again don't like fart jokes, so it was a rough couple episodes for me. Um and so then when the Slovene popped back up again, I was disappointed. It was like, oh, I thought we were done with those fuckers. But then the strangest thing happened to me was that this episode lived in my mind for years and years and years. And um, I remember pretty much everything about it. And well, besides the Mickey stuff, because that was totally garbage, like fart in the wind. Um, but but the doctor and and Margaret, the scene where the episode suddenly becomes my dinner with Andre, is it was I remember every every part of that part of the episode.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. I think that's what like sparked me to put you on this episode. And then I'm like, well, I gotta have Shannon back to complete this arc of the Slovene and the farts, of course. Page, what are your memories of this? Are they also a fart in the wind?

SPEAKER_03

They might be because I didn't remember this episode pretty much at all, and it surprised me by how much I enjoyed it. Again, like a lot of just like hanging out with these characters that we enjoy, but I'm totally fine with that.

SPEAKER_01

And I do enjoy those moments where it got like surprisingly profound in between the fart jokes, between the fart jokes, which were not as bad as the two-barter. Yeah, they did really. There is one at the beginning where they make all those like diarrhea noises in the bathroom.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I guess yeah, she was technically in the bathroom. Okay, all right. There's that one.

SPEAKER_01

The rest of them were rumbles in the stomach because she hadn't had lunch yet.

SPEAKER_02

Technically, that's not a fart, it's a sharp because it did sound liquidy, not it was incredibly liquidy and gross, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Shannon is our shart expert.

SPEAKER_02

I just potty trained my child, so I know I know all about this.

SPEAKER_01

And that's why you're here, Shannon. We need an expert in the field.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you. And this is what people are listening to this podcast for. For the shards.

unknown

God damn.

SPEAKER_05

I'm fine.

SPEAKER_01

But we'll get through this plot because y'all, I really like how this was filmed, especially the opening shot. Shannon, ever since we had you on the podcast, I'm like really paying attention to some of the shot composition because this the way they open it, and it's just like you're peering into the office, like through the doors, and you don't exactly see who this scientist is talking to, but it's just like this dude freaking out, and it's like, oh, this unknown project, it's unsafe, could result in the death of millions. And he's just like begging the person at the desk to stop it. But then we're like, we don't see her. But it's a familiar voice of Margaret Blaine seemingly agreeing with the scientists, saying, Oh, no other choice. We'll just stop it. It's fine. And then we hear the rumbling of her stomach as we cut to her saying she'll stop the project today because what do you take me for? Some kind of maniac? And I do love that the scientist dude is a little surprised, and she's like, Oh, yes, you only shared your results with me though, right? Right. I'm not gonna do anything evil if you say yes. This poor man, he's spiraling with relief. He turns his back, which never turn your back. Never turn your back. And then he just starts monologuing, and this is why men need to stop talking and start listening. Because he's like going on and on and on about how somebody wanted this project to go wrong. It's like set up to fail. We're gonna wipe the city off the map. But thank goodness they have her, their esteemed leader. And behind him, we see a little glowy light, we hear an unzip, and we know it's that little forehead. She's gonna come bursting out, and she surprises him in her little true alien form before killing him. And you know what? We shouldn't victim blame, but I feel like this guy made a lot of rookie mistakes in a horror film, Marilee.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, he he really did, especially you guys said something excellent in your um Aliens of London episode where you talked about how the doctor was constantly monologuing. Um, and you're like, sometimes you need to have like an inside monologue. And this really is what that guy needed in this moment because he was just talking and be like, ah, there's no way like this was gonna work. I was like, man, he really, this is an inside monologue moment.

SPEAKER_01

This is there's a reason why I have the password journal sticker in my phone because some people need to have their inside thoughts, not everything is needs to be on the outside.

SPEAKER_02

Well, the thing is, guys, is like this guy obviously has worked for the public for his whole life because if he had ever worked a corporate job, he'd know that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's true. I will say, I will say that um he does get some horror movie points back because, as it turns out, uh he was lying when he said he hadn't revealed this information to anybody else. He in fact did leave a paper trail. He told a bunch of people about his findings, um, and so and which absolutely comes back to bite uh Margaret in like a couple of scenes. And I just I I thought I I really enjoyed that because that is that is exactly what you need to do.

SPEAKER_01

See, he didn't tell anybody, but he may have uploaded some documents online that we're gonna hear about later. Whoopsies. But we smashed to credits, which I always watch through the credits. If you're skipping the credits, I will judge you. Everyone knows this. Bring back opening credit sequences. But then we cut to Mickey exiting a little train to Cardiff and knocking on the TARDIS door. Jack opens the door asking who the hell he is and tells him they're not buying what he's selling. And isn't it great that we get both creeps of the set just showing up, meeting right off the top? Two horrible men. Of course. It's awful. But Mickey brushes right past him and is like warmly greeted by the Doctor and Rose. And they're hanging out at the Cardiff Rift, which is previously mentioned in The Unquiet Dead. Everyone go check that out because Marilee was the guest for that great episode, by the way.

SPEAKER_00

Gavin was also there, and we have to like shout out Gavin. He was so great.

SPEAKER_01

Always. Gavin is wonderful, my favorite. The TARDIS, it's on this Cardiff Rift. Cardiff Rift is a horrible phrase for me to have to say a bunch of times, by the way.

SPEAKER_03

That really is horrible.

SPEAKER_02

I know. I called you that energy scar. Energy scar is a phrase. Well, that's what they that's they described it as an energy scar at one point. And I was like, I like that better than the riff or whatever.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. But basically, this little energy scar, it has like radiation leakage, and they're gonna use it to recharge the TARDIS, which is a plot point that we only return to in the Russell T. Davies era. And they should just take one day to refuel. And y'all, it's about to get silly because the doctor and Jack are having some flirty banter while Mickey and Rose, they kind of catch up. He gives her her passport just in case she needs it. If they like travel around like the globe. Okay, Rose. And Mickey is obviously jealous of Captain Jack hanging with Rose and calls him cheesy, but Jack is not up on the 21st century slang. And the doctor is just offended he's not considered handsome. And so Gals, real life crimes aside, these are just the characters in the show because honestly, it would be too easy. Bachelor Nation time. Which of these three men is getting your rose? And here's the thing: I did not realize what I typed until after I typed it.

SPEAKER_03

Getting your rose?

SPEAKER_01

Getting your rose. Can Rose get my rose? I mean, always. That's the default. But which of these three men would you take on a date?

SPEAKER_02

So I definitely am gonna, everything aside, but like narrowing in on the fact that Jack is a known buy king.

SPEAKER_01

That's true.

SPEAKER_02

And so I do think that like if I were gonna give my television rose to somebody, and as we all know, television reality isn't real reality, but you pick the best person for the show, I would say Jack.

SPEAKER_01

I think you're gonna have a great night with Jack.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know, you know, I just I think it'd be fun.

SPEAKER_03

He's been with literally everyone in the universe.

SPEAKER_01

I believe they call it omnisexual. We had to make up words for it. I mean, and for reality TV, that's that's par for the course. Alright, this is tough. Who's getting your rose?

SPEAKER_03

I think I would also fall for the Captain Jack thing. Because he's so charismatic, and if anyone flirts well, I shouldn't say that, but I don't go for it if anyone flirts with me.

SPEAKER_00

But in this situation, Marile, who's getting your rose? Easy answer. That's the that's the doctor baby.

SPEAKER_01

I mean the same the doctor looks like a bush lesbian. That's the uniform there. Listen, Doc Martin's wearing a leather jacket. I mean, I mean, sorry, Mickey. But you know what? They have to recharge, it's gonna take a day. So the gang goes out for Girls' Day, literally going to brunch, which is our dream right now.

SPEAKER_02

Whoa, whoa, hold on. We can't skip past the fact that Jack slaps Mickey.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, they both probably deserve it.

SPEAKER_02

I just thought that scene was so jarring. Like, why did he slap him?

SPEAKER_01

Because this show is unwell. Truly unwell in so many ways.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, all right. No answers. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01

We have no answers for poor behavior and poor scenes that treat Mickey like shit. Ugh, it's awful. But don't worry, the doctor explains to Ricky how the TARDIS chameleon circuit broke when he landed in the 1960s, and he likes how it looks now, so he's not gonna fix it.

SPEAKER_00

Which that's real. Yeah, there's nothing more permanent than a temporary solution that works.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And that like harkens back to the first doctor landed there. We're gonna disguise, and then you know what, plot gets confusing down the line. But y'all, this is the fun part. We cut to Margaret Blaine, she's explaining at a press conference how the this nuclear power plant plant. Why did I set this up for myself? She's explaining at a press conference how the nuclear power plant they've built will create jobs for all. Nothing bad's ever gonna happen. And the press snaps a picture of her, and I love that she just shouts, no pictures, take a picture of the project, not me. She's not gonna center herself in this. And she promises no harm will come to her citizens while she's walking this earth. And this reporter, Kathy Salt, pulls her aside and is just straight up interrogating her about this cursed project and all the deaths of like the engineers and scientists, some of whom like Margaret probably killed herself because there's like it was raining. The car couldn't see, low visibility. I'm like, there are I gotta give her credit. She has a response for every death and bad thing. And then she reveals the scientist we saw killed in the opening leaked some of the private concerns online. So, Marile, you're right, he did one thing right. And so Margaret's like, let's get a word in private, just us girls. And as they leave, Margaret just detours to the bathroom. And this is where we hear some of the disgusting poop and fart noises because Russell's fat phobia never quits. And then, like, they're separated, Margaret's in the stall, and she unzips her body while conversing with this reporter. And the reporter just starts like talking about her life and stuff after she's like, Oh, I gotta report all this information. And as Margaret's unzipping, gonna kill her, Kathy. She just starts talking about her wedding, her pregnancy. She's three months along, need this job for money. And then, like, we are on this alien creature just on its face. And it is like a full prosthetic thing, but we see this weird creature just have a change of heart in the moment. This is why I love creatures and real, tangible things you can film. Because even though it's like a mask, they just like fully are drawn in, and you see that this alien is so sad because she starts talking about her dead husband and brothers and how she's all alone now. And Margaret tells her just run along, they'll catch up later. And I like that this is kind of the start of her redemption, and it this the beautiful humanity of it all. Even though it started off with like poop noises, it ends on a beautiful note.

SPEAKER_03

That's why I love the show, because we can go from like literal, like ridiculous fart noises, sound effects. Wait, Shannon will remind us it's a shart. Oh, yeah. So sorry, so sorry. And then to this beautiful, like kind of nuanced scene where we see some humanity and the person that's supposed to be the villain. I just love that.

SPEAKER_01

Same. It's like kind of the start of this beautiful small episode. And then eventually we cut back to the TARDIS gang at lunch, and they're just telling stories, yapping about, and the doctor just looks over and spots Margaret on the cover of the newspaper. And he's just like, I was having such a nice day, and shows Rose. They quickly boot scoot to City Hall where Jack tries to give everyone orders immediately. And then I do like that the doctor just reminds them who's actually in charge. And Jack's like, So what are we gonna do? And the doctor's like, Great plan, let's all do this. And I do like that they go full power rangers, like syncing up their like speed dial on some Nokia phones or something. Take me back to Nokia phone days because that was so silly, and I loved it.

SPEAKER_02

So that's like the kind of stuff that I really love and appreciate from Doctor Who is like it can go from like that emotion to like just slapstick. Um, just absolutely bonkers.

SPEAKER_01

Shards to deep lonely humanity to Power Ranger phones is what I'm calling this. It's so silly. I love it. So like range.

SPEAKER_02

When I do have the range, thinking about how like this was kind of set up, they it's like there's so many themes that like we can relate back to like in our our daily life, like now, because like they're putting nuclear power plants by like poor residential areas. Um they are giving like reporters like full malarkey answers, so we can keep this PG malarky answers to the press. Um, but then there's al always that redemption arc of like, but woman to woman, we can always get through it. And like that's kind of how you could tell, like, it was written by a man, right?

SPEAKER_05

You know?

SPEAKER_02

Anyway, so but yeah, but then it just goes straight back to wackiness and Scooby-Doo times.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I do have a literal cue of Scooby-Doo coming up soon, is the best part.

SPEAKER_00

I just think that it's really fun that um to save the day in this case, they they're they're planning on kidnapping a politician, which you would never get away with today. Um which I think is is great. Very fun. Time difference, little little little treat. Though I do think the part of the the the place that they're going to construct the power plant isn't necessarily like a neighborhood, they're gonna destroy Cardiff Castle, um, the historical location, Cardiff Castle, which I think is so funny that everybody was just like, yeah, sure, get rid of the the historical castle that we have all of our tourists. I mean, she says it herself.

SPEAKER_01

They don't care about the Welsh. They don't care. But y'all, we do get this great Doctor Who Gag where the doctor tells like her secretary, like, just tells to tell Miss Blaine the doctor's here to see her. And I love that he just goes in there and it is just the sound effect of her dropping a teacup, and the guy he comes back out just frazzled, and he's like, uh, maybe we should make an appointment for next week. And then the guys have this exchange. The doctor's like, she's climbing out of the window, isn't she? And he's like, Yeah, she is. And so this is our cue for Scooby-Doo the Great Chase, because bless that secretary for trying to slow down the doctor. It didn't really work. They all just Scooby-Doo around to all the exits trying to catch Margaret. Of course, they have Mickey run with toilet paper stuck to his foot because he is the joke, of course. They do not treat this character well. Like Mickey is such a poorly written character in this first series. Luckily, he gets the character gets better. But y'all, this is another moment that made me cackle. We catch up with Margaret Blaine running away and she's popping off her earrings like I would when I want to fight somebody. And she just turns out they're little teleport things, and she goes to teleport away, but the doctor's one step ahead and uses the sonic screwdriver to like mess with her teleport and brings her right back to him. It is a full Wiley Coyote gag with the Roadrunner because every time she teleports, she just runs back to the doctor because he's messing with her. And this does lead to another great exchange. We have so many this episode. Margaret's like, this is persecution. Why can't you leave me alone? What did I ever do to you? And the doctor's like, you tried to kill me and destroy this entire planet. And Margaret's like, apart from that, you know what? I support her. I'm sorry. I love a bad bitch. Women's wrongs. She was creating jobs for the community. What else do you want from her? I do like that. It's just a full walk of shame back to City Hall and the doctor's trying to question why she's building a nuclear power plant on top of the Cardiff Rift. And Jack just shares too much information. This is where he needs his little password journal because he's like explaining if the nuclear station were to go into meltdown, the entire planet would just go boom because it's on top of the rift. And Rose is like, why would nobody in London check this? And Margaret's like, nobody in London cares about Cardiff and that they could fall into the sea and that they wouldn't notice anything. And then she's like, damn, I've gone native, and she just sounds like a full Welshman because she's just making fun of London at this point. Again, she's getting humanity because she's identifying with the place she's lived in. And then we get horrible parts of Mickey being so dismissive of her, like talking to her, like in the room as if she's not there. And as she's trying to defend herself, he's just calling her a thing. And I did write this. I personally would not antagonize the alien with power, but that's just me. If she can build a nuclear power plant in her free time, I probably wouldn't threaten her or treat her poorly to her face. That leave that in the group chat. Paige would fight an alien though. She would talk shit to her face. I would. Yeah, I believe that. Yeah. But no, I do actually feel kind some kind of way about just him calling her a thing. Like, won't even like by the gender that she's identifying as. I felt some I felt some kind of way about this. Nikki is on my shit list this episode. Right next in the charts.

SPEAKER_00

God. Yeah, I didn't love that. Um she's a being that's clearly intelligent and communicating with you, and you know that she prefers like she uses a certain set of pronouns. I just the dehumanizing of it all, I don't love that.

SPEAKER_01

I know, and it gets it just builds towards our whole death penalty thing here because y'all I love that the doctor pretty quickly figures out what's going on because he rips this nuclear model off the table that she's built, flips it over, and then just like reuveals that once it explodes, there's a hidden extrapolator that would like create a little bubble for her and help her ride the energy out like a surfboard from Earth once like the nuclear meltdown happens and everything's destroyed. I mean, it's very Lilo and Stitch in some ways, just surfing on out into space, which again, good for her.

SPEAKER_02

I kind of think the idea of a a dimensional surfboard, I kind of think that's a funny idea. I think it's great. I know that it's silly, but I don't know. The the thought of of her it in the skin suit, like riding into space for me, like I don't know. There was something that was really funny about the idea of that, you know? And I feel like she would stay in the skin suit at this point.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, she's having a nice time. That's why I think it's very Lilo and Stitch. It's like space surfing. Good for her. Yes, you're blowing up a planet, but whoopsie.

SPEAKER_00

Can I make my really dumb complaint? Because the thing about this that's always really confused me is why did she leave this? I mean, obviously it it gets revealed at the end of the episode with her actual major plot. But I've watching the episode originally, and then also when I was I watched a couple times in prep preparation for this, I always had a moment of like, okay, but like why is that a part of the model? Is it like doing something to allow people to like accept that this is happening and want it to happen? And like, oh don't worry. I got answers for you later on.

SPEAKER_01

Perfect. Don't worry, I just understood it this watch as I'm taking notes. Incredible.

SPEAKER_00

Thank God. Because it just it it always confused me that it was part of the model and and like wasn't doing anything for that. It was like, oh, it's it's just a surfboard. Um, okay. Could you not like have that someplace else? No, part of the model? Got it.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, just the little surfboard. We're gonna put this thing with immense power and potential onto a desk and just let it be there as a model for a nuclear plant, like a little Lego playland. It's fine. But this is the part that is just threading the whole bad wolf of it all this season. The doctor notices the name of the nuclear plant is sorry, y'all, they did not offer Welsh elective at my college, so here we go. Uh Blyth Drug, which is Welf for uh Bad Wolf, and they're just like being like, Why'd you pick that name? We've heard that everywhere. It's following us around wherever we go, me and Rose. And Margaret's like, I don't know. I just picked that at random. It just came to my head. It was fresh off the dome.

SPEAKER_03

Every time we get uh one of those little bad wolf um hints in each of these series one episodes, I'm that Leo DiCaprio meme where he's like pointing at the TV.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. I like that the doctor and Rose have a full moment of it and then just shrugs it off. Must be a coincidence. Yeah, I'd never heard that before. Never. Never. And I like that the doctor's solution to this is let's just take Margaret back to her home planet and we're gonna save everyone from this explosion. But Margaret explains that the family of the Slytheen was tried and found guilty while they were away, and the planet has the death penalty, so really can't go back home or I'll be executed like immediately. And the doctor's like, mm-hmm, not my problem. I don't know. I think the doctor was a little cold on that one, a little rude. How are we feeling about the death penalty in 2005-2006? Very dicey. I mean, all we're all from Red State, so I don't know exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and in 2006, we were all pretty young. I don't think we any of us had really strong opinions about the death penalty.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't know. I d in 2005, I'm sure I was like, yeah, sure, that sounds fine.

SPEAKER_01

I wasn't aware of the um massive problems that we have in uh our legal system at that point because you were worried about watching Veronica Mars at this point, I feel like something like that.

SPEAKER_00

I well, um Smallville, Supernatural. It was it was definitely I don't even think I had watched Supernatural yet. It was a few weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01

I don't even know if it started at this point.

SPEAKER_00

Uh 2005, I think, yeah. This is it's premiering this year. I didn't start watching until like season two. So no, uh, this was I was I was very worried about if I was going to be able to watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

SPEAKER_01

This makes sense. You were a WB household, I was UPN. But no, we cut to Margaret and the TARDIS, and she's just like, How did you get the outside around the inside? And he's like, I'm not telling you any secrets. I feel like you would use this for evil. That's the energy he's giving off. And she thinks it's technology of the gods, but the doctor's like, don't worship me. I'd be a very bad god. And then we cut to Jack installing this confiscated extrapolator into the TARDIS, but like the energy's not compatible, so they'll have to wait overnight for the TARDIS to finish charging. Like it might make it go faster to charge, but not really gonna help too much. And I mean 12 hours is 12 hours. It's I also don't think at this point I would let Jack like fiddle around with the TARDIS this much. Mm-hmm. Like, we've only been on a little bit of a venture with him, and I'm like, mmm, he he proved to have some ill intentions before.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's putting a lot of trust in him pretty early.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, this is like coming right off the two-parter where we meet him and he just joins the gang.

SPEAKER_03

That's pretty wild.

SPEAKER_01

That is. Rose remarks that they have a prisoner, and the police box is an actual police box for once. And Margaret explains that they're not only the police, but executioners, to which Mickey says she deserves it, but then she points out that they're all so quick to soak their hands in her blood, and she questions how that makes them any better than her. And then she sits down and says, Who can look her in the eye? And none of them can maintain eye contact with her. And I love this. Is she wrong?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Listen, I know that you all are are like are very boldly being like, no, let's like really think about it. I'm I will jump on this grenade. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You're ready to kill Hannibal Lecter.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like I'm I'm so sorry. There's a difference, like when they they're like, um, every time a superhero is like in that moment with like a villain, and they're like, if you kill me, we're just the same. It's like, I'm so sorry. Not a trolley problem, this, but killing one person versus killing a person who was like actively attempting, not even let's not even get into her trying to kill the planet. She adds the we know of for just her nuclear power plant thing. She killed at least 12 people. At least 12 people that we know of just for the nuclear power plant. I no, I'm sorry. If I am not even killing her, if I'm delivering her to get beat uh to justice delivered by other people, it's not the same thing as killing 12 people with your own fucking hands. I don't, I'll say it.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. We're gonna play on the emotions of a traumatized time lord who committed a genocide.

SPEAKER_00

So I'm not saying he's better. I'm saying I would be better than her in this situation. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. I do feel like he is better though, even though he committed a genocide. He stopped a war from killing everyone.

SPEAKER_00

It's really, it's real um Jamie Lannister. I killed one guy and destroyed my honor permanently, but I also saved everybody that lived in King's Landing from being burnt to death with wildfire energy.

SPEAKER_01

But then, y'all, this is the part that it gets into messy relationship drama. We cut to Mickey and Rose outside the TARDIS discussing their relationship, and he's asking her out for a drink and maybe to spend the night in a hotel, and she agrees to it. And he's like, You can go tell the doctor where you're going or anything. But Rose is like, that's not his business. And Rose girl, this is about to get messy for you.

SPEAKER_03

And love how messy she is. She's so messy. She's like, I'm gonna flirt with this new guy, Jack, and then I'm gonna go on a date with the guy who's my boyfriend, but I ghosted him. And flirt with the doctor. Good for her.

SPEAKER_01

Honestly, this is the TLC reality show I want to watch. This is the sis like, what is it, sister wives? I need the like brotherhood. Husbands. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I would love that. I would can we sign up for that right now.

SPEAKER_01

We will all be brother husbands. It's fine. We are funny guys at heart.

SPEAKER_02

The first time I watched this, I I mean, I I wasn't critically thinking. So of course I was just like, oh wow, Mickey, he's he's back and he's really trying something. And then of course, like you you do the rewatch and you're like, oh man, Mickey! I know. And we're not even to the message. We're not. So I don't, uh I don't know. I guess it's a much lighter question than like the death penalty, definitely.

SPEAKER_01

Um I feel like we're gonna have way more to say about the relationship drama than the death penalty. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah. But y'all, inside the TIRITUS, this is why I would date the Ninth Doctor, because he is a lesbian U-Hauler at heart. He is watching Mickey and Rose walk away on one of the little console monitors. Jack even tries to sneak up on him and be like, What you doing here? And he's like, Nope, shuts it. And then I love that Margaret, you know what? She is Elle Woodsing through things. She is using it for evil, though. She's interrogating them about butchering her family and how her teleport only carried her away. She had to blindly escape with no coordinates. And Jack and the doctor are just laughing, and you know what? She has a fun idea. She requests a last meal at her favorite restaurant, which just happens to be nearby. And it's like, could you sit with a creature you're about to kill and like, you know, take her, take her to supper, could you? And the doctor agrees. Jack even offers his bracelets that would electrocute her if she gets more than 10 feet away from him. And you know what? I love that she just shouts, Dinner in bondage.

SPEAKER_02

I wrote that quote down as well. That is a fantastic quote. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

That's a queen.

SPEAKER_02

That is a queen.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe she should get in on this brother-husband business. I feel like she might be fun. And then for some reason, Jack stays behind to fix the TARDIS while we cut back and forth between our two dates. But no, for clarity, we will cover one full date, then the other. I cannot do the crosstalk. Get ready because Mickey and Rose are on their date and it's so messy. She's like, hey, so how's it been? And he's like, I'm dating somebody else. And Rose is jealous. And you know what, Rose? Not into your fat phobia because she's like, she's a bit big, and Mickey's like, she lost weight. I am fist fighting Russell at this point. Buddy, you gotta stop it.

SPEAKER_02

You gotta this is part of the up and down that I'm talking about. It's like things get like really good and really progressive. And then, like, why did she say that?

SPEAKER_01

And then why did he just like she lost weight? And I'm like, buddy, stop it.

SPEAKER_03

We all know that Rose is a girl's girl, and I just don't think she'd say that.

SPEAKER_00

She wouldn't, she wouldn't say that.

SPEAKER_01

We've seen her across space and time, literally unionizing everywhere, flirting with every alien creature she comes across. She does not care about that. This is how you know a man wrote this in an evil man at heart, even though he's a gay man. White gay men can be evil, y'all. They can be evil and have no boundaries.

SPEAKER_02

Um I didn't want to go on record saying anyone can be evil.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, we already know I'm evil, so of course, you're correct. But y'all, don't worry, it gets worse. Oh, good, thank you. Mickey explains that, well, Rose has been away, and you know what? Um I'm gonna move on with my life. I'm gonna be free. But also, even though I have a girlfriend, you want to go to a hotel? We can go find one real quick. And Rose is like, Mickey doesn't even like this girl. And Mickey's like, at least he knows where she is. And he just explodes on Rose that she just left him. She kissed him goodbye and ran off with the doctor and left him like he was nothing, which I do understand. He should be mad about that. But this whole situation and him throwing that in her face after he says he has another girlfriend while asking her to go to a hotel room is a mess. And we're supposed to feel bad that when Rose calls, he'll come a running. He literally says, if you call, I will still be there. And he's like, Am I just a standby? And he's like, I'll wait the rest of my life for you. And Rose does apologize, which at this point I don't think she should. I don't. Everyone's shaking their heads. This is gonna get interesting.

SPEAKER_03

He's love bombing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, he is. This is so toxic. Why did he even come? Like, why? If he did not want to be a bad man, then why did he make the decision to come?

SPEAKER_01

Guess what? He's like, you can go do this for the rest of your life. I'm not gonna ask you to leave the doctor because that's not fair. But I want you to promise me that when you do come back home, you're gonna come back to me. That is insane behavior.

SPEAKER_00

Bonkers, proper bonkers. Like men are not okay. Also, her mom's right there. She came home for her mom, right?

SPEAKER_01

Like, no, no, if she comes home, she's gotta come home for Mickey, not Jackie. Bad bitch Jackie, who we love. We stand. Insane. And I love that Rose just does not respond because she hears a rumble in the background and it's not Thunder Baby. So should we go to the other crazy date where it's basically the silence of the lambs?

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god, the cinematography in that scene is so good. It is so good. And can I just like note like I miss seeing wrinkles and I miss like seeing like up close to people's faces, and like golly, this was like that scene was so well shot. Um, like just whatever the dialogue was going on, it was just beautiful because of the human face and how like a beautiful the human face is, like with wrinkles and with all the facial expressions that are possible. Um, and television is like such a cool form of art because you get to see like such small impressions, like just like a small movement of the eyes, like a small movement of the mouth, um, to where like we're seeing like this big theater throughout all of the episode, and then you get to see this like very intimate, beautifully done scene. Um, so I just like really want to make sure that if you rewatch this episode, you're looking for the cinematography specifically there, uh, because it's great. And again, I'm I miss people's faces and what people's faces actually look like.

SPEAKER_01

And once again, everyone go to Shannon's website. You might even see my face in some of this stuff because I do pop up in some work time and again. But yes, this is why you're one of my favorite photographers. You took the cutest photo of me.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and it's just like real. I think like there's something really being lost right now about like how people actually look. So anyway, exactly.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, we're having those conversations about how we're not seeing those real emotions anymore because of all the like plastic surgery people are getting, which do whatever you want with your own body, obviously. But like we're missing a lot of those emotions on actors' faces that we got back then and we're nostalgic for it.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly that. Oh, I love this so much. So let's dive into the silence of the lambs of it all, because this is the scene um when I was at Chicago TARDIS that Annette Badlin, who plays Margaret Blaine and Christopher Eccleston, they did a whole panel about because this what they wanted to talk about was this scene being like the highlight. And I do think that this does this back and forth about morality is really important. It gets to what Marilee's been saying, being like, no. And I like that the doctor's like on that side of things. So, Margaret, she's going full Hannibal Lecter, getting into the doctor's head, telling him her real name, and like really trying to humanize herself. She's like, Oh, look out that window. That's my flat right at the top. And then she slips something into his drink when he's not looking. But the moment he turns around, she swaps him back. And the next part, I love that she's just like getting all flirty, and she's like, Do you know that the female Slithine can make this little poison dart? And he just catches it and is like, mmm, I knew that. And then she just leans in even closer and he thinks she's flirting again. And she's like, Here's the excess poison from my lungs, and he just sprays her mouth. I love that he is not about her reindeer games. And then this is where it gets a little deep. She explains that the public execution is a slow death, and that's what awaits her should he take her home. And it's like, hey, doctor, you gonna stay and watch? And he wonders what else he could do. And she's like, take me somewhere safe, take me to this family. We're all over the place. I promise I won't like start up my little games again. But he reminds her that she murdered the real Margaret Blaine. She is walking around in the body of somebody she actually killed, and she's killed other people. And she's like, I'm used to this ordinary life, and just give me a chance to change.

SPEAKER_02

So, so the line that Doctor Who says uh that it was it was actually very well done, and so I really made sure to write it down. So uh during this scene, right after she like begs for mercy, he says, You're pleading for mercy on a dead woman's lips.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. This is some beautiful dialogue. It's way better than my root cap right now.

SPEAKER_00

That gives me chills, actually. Yeah, and like this is I don't think this is the world's greatest written episode, but this scene cooks harder than the rest of the episode put together and like doubled. It's so good. And and like the whole the whole point of it is like it like she she wants not to be turned into soup, which by the way, I know that it's uh it must be incredibly painful, but honestly, being turned into soup does sound like pretty fulfilling for me as a person who loves soup. Um so not the worst way to go. Exactly. Yeah, um, but like it just pleading for like it's so good. It's so good. I can talk about this scene forever. Somebody else should say, because I've already said a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01

No, it's just the fact that she's pleading for her life whenever she killed so many people, had excuses, made up for all of their deaths. She probably didn't give any of these people a chance to plea for their lives. There was like, and we get into the one person she showed mercy to. And so Margaret's telling about Kathy Salt today, the reporter we talked about, and how she didn't kill her, even though Kathy threatened to like reveal all these horrible things she's done and like all these things that have slid and like all these murders. And she's like, that's proof that I've changed. And the doctor does believe that she changed that one time, but he doesn't believe it's enough to save just one person on a whim because she happened to be kind. And she calls him out saying, only a killer would know that. And she does clock all the devastation he leaves behind when he's playing God and throws it right back in his face that sometimes they let one go, and she asks to be that one that is let go. She explains how she was forced to become a killer at age 13, and he hears the rumbling outside that Rose heard. So we really it's cut off. What do you think about the little line that she was forced to become a killer at 13? It's very interesting.

SPEAKER_02

Uh, I definitely do think that like how you were raised affects like who you become. I I do absolutely think that that that is a factor. Um and I don't know if we're waiting till the end to like drop our political beliefs, but like I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I think that's just I think that's just how we go here. Just go for it.

SPEAKER_02

I don't really I don't believe in the death penalty. Like, even if like like we know that a person is the lowest of the low, even if we know um, just because I know how flawed our justice system is, and I also know like that everyone isn't put like on an equal ground. Um, and I guess like to me when she's talking about her upbringing, like a sub it could be a lie, absolutely, and like she is a known liar for sure. Um, but it definitely, I guess, for me evoked like feelings of like people's past like affects their choices. And while like personal choices absolutely matter, um, I do think that there is something to be said about like the circumstances surrounding each individual act.

SPEAKER_03

That is a really interesting point because if that's all she's ever known, it do we fault her for that? Like even if she is doing terrible things.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, we do. We can fault her for it. It's just like I don't know if she should be put to death for it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But also, has everybody watched um The 13th Doctor's first season, her finale, what she does to somebody there? She doesn't kill him and she stops somebody from killing people. Spoilers for a show that is almost 10 years old at this point, like an episode. She doesn't kill this person who has committed atrocities, but she does basically keep him a prisoner in a stasis chamber for like eternity. What is worse?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, it's it's really tricky. Anytime you have a conversation about justice, it's always really tricky because you what at the end of the day, you're you're you're you're juggling the concept of justice in the society versus the concept of like personal accountability and like change and and like redemption. And so we live in a really punitive society where at the end of the day, the idea of justice ends and begins basically with the idea of like uh appropriate like wrath. And what is that, where other societies, even in our own world, um, in our own planet, have a completely different where they weigh like reformation a lot more heavily. Like where you look at like Icelandic countries where when someone commits a crime, they go to jails that are nicer than like how we treat people here in this country and like the way that they are allowed to change and reform and have like reformation projects. So it's it's really hard to find a ground where everything is satisfying, and you have to like look at what justice in is in each individual context, I think is the only way you can ever go through. Does that make sense? Completely.

SPEAKER_01

And here's the thing we don't get any answers because they just give us a little earthquake, and this is where we cut back to the teddy baby, Mickey, when Rose runs away, she runs to the danger to see what's happening, probably to see how she can help because that's her life now. And Mickey is just shouting at her, it's always the doctor, it's never me. And this is where I'm like, buddy, people are dying.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, get over yourself. There was just an explosion.

SPEAKER_01

There's an explosion, things are happening, things are collapsing, because we've seen later in the episode.

SPEAKER_02

In the early 2000s, that's the only way a boyfriend knew how to say he loved her is by yelling. Don't you remember?

SPEAKER_03

He has a nice guy syndrome, that classic, like, but I'm such a nice guy. No, no, he isn't, but he's not even a nice guy. He just thinks.

SPEAKER_01

No, he's got a girlfriend that is inviting Rose to a hotel. Yeah. I hate this man sometimes. Sometimes? I mean, um, does he have any good moments? No, not this season.

SPEAKER_02

No, I want to believe in him.

SPEAKER_03

I want to, though. Kennedy, you can fix him. If anyone can fix him.

SPEAKER_02

Darn it. I believe in reform, you know? Like we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01

Oh boy. Here's the thing, though. We go from like the toxic date, Scooby-doing away, like that fight, but write to Margaret and the doctor outside because he's like, you gotta stay close because of the handcuffs, they'll be electrocuted, you know. And she's like, I'm sticking by you, because she knows that he's probably the safest person to hang out with. He's gonna figure out what's going on. Here's the thing I would have loved a good stuck in the stuck together, handcuffed together trope for an entire episode. I think that would have been hilarious. Bring back sitcom tropes. Please, that would have been very funny. Exactly. Like there's a whole Facts of Life episode where two characters are handcuffed together and maybe they should make out. Maybe the doctor and Margaret Savine should have made out. Maybe they should have. I believe in their chemistry. You know what? You can solve everything with a good make out. But y'all, Jack back at the TARDIS, he did a couple whoopsies. They spot the mess immediately. Turns out the Cardiff, the Cardiff, oh my god, why did I do this to my fucking self?

SPEAKER_00

You didn't do it to yourself. The show did it to you. Please place the appropriate blame where it deserves to be put.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. So Jack did a whoopsie. Turns out the Cardiff rift opened, and it looks like a little glowing tornado right on top of the TARDIS, kind of like popping out. It's actually kind of beautiful. I would love that as like some sort of nightlight situation. And whoopsies, it's gonna tear apart space and time because Jack putting the extrapolator surfboard thing Margaret was gonna use to surf back home. Um, it turned out to maybe be sucking some of the energy from the TARDIS, whoopsies, and turns out this was Margaret's plan all along because she's playing chess. And she pops her little human arm off, grabs Rose by the throat, because they're all back inside the TARDIS at this point. She tells them to give her the powered up extrapolator and explains that she knew somebody with alien technology would want her little surfboard. So she programmed it for plan B. She knew exactly what she was gonna do. And she wanted to lock on to the nearest alien power source to open the rift. And you know what? I support women's wrongs occasionally. The doctor isn't scared though, because the TARDIS console, it pops open, it just like lifts that hood a little bit, and we say the heart of the TARDIS, and he tells her to go look at it, and she's hypnotized by this light. I would be too. It's bright and shiny. I'm like a moth to that flame. And she lets go of Rose and thanks the doctor as they seem to have an understanding. They make a little bit of eye contact there, and her skin suit falls to the ground, and Jack and the doctor power everything down so the universe doesn't explode. And Rose is like, uh, what happened to her? She kind of just like disappeared. And Jack's like, nah, she's dead. It had to have fried her. But the doctor explains that I don't even know what happens when you look into the heart of the TARDIS, the glowy thing. And then he just pulls an egg out of the skin suit. This is so funny. And he's like, let's just drop her off at a home with a different family and let her start again. This is like gonna fix the morality problem. We're not killing her, but she's getting a little reset. She's back as a little seed. The TARDIS can do that, apparently. Don't explain the science. It's all magic.

SPEAKER_00

So thank you so much to Doctor Who for answering the question of would you kill baby Hitler in 2005? Um, the answer is no, you would adopt baby Hitler into a family with morals and ethics.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

But then he could have gone to art school.

SPEAKER_01

There you go. Hopefully, Hitler and Margaret will be raised properly in this new timeline that we've created. And Marile, this answers your question of why was the little surfboard thing on the table? It's because she was playing chess and she knew it needed some alien power to surf her right home or wherever she wanted to go.

SPEAKER_00

It makes sense after you know the whole episode, but at the beginning, every time I'm like, what the fuck is this? Like, why, why? Why would this be doing that? And uh it's it's it gets me every time, even when I've just watched the episode.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And so I love that after all this is done, skin suit, we got the seed, we got to take her back home. Rose is like, oh yeah, Mickey's outside. I'm gonna run out, run back to wherever the hell he was, go look for him. We see like police and ambulances outside because people were obviously impacted by this little earthquake moment. Sorry, Mickey, that she had to go run and save things. And turns out Mickey has left. He just like looks around at the destruction and he walks off into the night. And Rose just goes back to the TARDIS and decides to let him go as the doctor's monologuing about Margaret's second chance. She's Just thinking to herself, yep, Mickey needs a second chance. And the doctor's like, Where is he at? And she's like, nah, nah. We're good. We'll go. And he's like, we can wait. And she's like, no. And then next thing we know, TARDIS dematerializes and it's off to the next adventure. And that is our show. Y'all. This is a wild episode. So much happens. It really is. It spans like everything on the spectrum of television from Scooby-Doo and poop jokes to like deep thinking. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03

That's why we love this show again. That's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, you I feel like you have to like have that those layers, you know, or else it wouldn't it wouldn't be entertainment.

SPEAKER_01

I know. It's a great little episode. I like it, even though Mickey is kind of the worst man in this episode. It's awful.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, he terrorizes Rose. But again, that my dinner at Andre situation between Margaret and the Doctor makes it so worth it.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe one of the best scenes of the series. Definitely of the Ninth Doctor's run, I would say. And he has a lot of great stuff. I've not hated a single episode because I can always find something to grasp onto.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Even the worst episode with the Ninth Doctor is still a banger. Um, and and and this is one of his best ones. It really is.

SPEAKER_02

Do we have any more episodes in this setting? Because that's the other thing that I think was really notable about this episode is like the setting. Gorgeous. Oh my gosh, that huge building. I I took a note of like what it's called, but um also the fountain that it's in front of. Oh my gosh, just what an amazing um place to like be at and get to film with.

SPEAKER_01

So they film the show mostly in Cardiff for the most part. Even the sound stages are there because like it was just more affordable at the time. So you're gonna get a lot more of that, especially in the first four seasons. And then I'm like trying to think, because then they go alien off world a lot. They don't really go to any actual alien planets in the Ninth Doctor season. The closest you get is like the space like command deck on a spaceship.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I feel like you're you're closer to the end of the ninth doctor's reign here, and I don't know that he comes back. But the show does come back to Cardiff. I don't think it's ever gonna look like quite like this episode ever again, though.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And then let's just get into the horrible behind-the-scenes thing before we get to the more fun things. So Annette Badlin, Margaret Blaine, said in a 2015 panel that this is the episode where John Berrman exposed himself to the rest of the cast and crew. And this video made the rounds more in 2021 after the allegations against Noel Clark, who's recently been arrested for a lot of this poor behavior that dates back to the Doctor Who set. This is what Christopher Eccleston is generally referring to when he talks about producers not taking action to make a safe set. Because even Freema Ageman, um, Martha Jones from series three was like, yes, John Berrman would just walk around with that hanging out as if it was in just normal conversation. What a wild time. There's a reason why Eccleston quit the show, asked for producers to be fired because this was just happening for so long. Literally every man is awful, and that's except for him, it turns out.

SPEAKER_02

Sometimes I get like mad at older women, like that are like, ah, you ladies, we had things so much.

SPEAKER_01

It is a woman producer for the show.

SPEAKER_02

I know, I know, but then I hear about stuff like this and I'm like, golly, I have not ever had a man walk around with his just dick out on set, you know?

SPEAKER_01

I will not comment about the horrible things I've experienced on sets.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I mean, I've experienced horrible things, but that's not that specific one.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like Shannon knows the worst thing that's ever happened to me on a set. You weren't there, but I'll tell everyone else after the show. But yeah, um it's awful. And just a reminder in our show notes, we have a link to Rain's National Sexual Assault Hotline if you or somebody you know needs resources. It's awful. Ah, people just behave. It's not hard. Apparently it is. Apparently it is. And then Russell T. Davies, we're just gonna go into random notes. Um he stated that the Cardiff Rift closed with the cracks in time when the 11th Doctor rebooted the universe. Spoilers for like five years from now, who cares? But later the big finish Torchwood stories contradicted this and saying it never actually closed. And I want to know what's the truth, Ellen, because for some reason we have to gas up the TARDIS during Russell's era, and then we never really hear about it again. What's real?

SPEAKER_00

As always, Canon is wibbly wobbly and tiny whimey. So the truth is whatever is most convenient to the plot in this moment.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And one great thing Mickey does do is he calls Jack jumping jack flash, and everyone go check out that great Whoopi Goldberg, Penny Marshall joint, great little movie, Penny Marshall's debut, Rest in Peace Queen. You made so many amazing movies. I love a good reference. And then we do have a listener question from Novel. Thank you for sending this in. Was the four-person TARDIS dynamic something you would have wanted more of in this series? So do you think you would have wanted, like, say, another adventure with all four of these people or like those three in Jack? Or do you like how it kind of paced itself out with like just the Doctor and Rose, and then eventually they add Jack, and then sometimes they have Mickey?

SPEAKER_03

Or do you have wanted like a ton of episodes like that? But I think every once in a while it's really fun to have that just like again Scooby-Doo gang of characters on a zany adventure.

SPEAKER_01

I think I'm with you on that page. I like when it just happens occasionally, but not too often. I'm usually more traditional that I like Dr. Companion and then whoever episodically is the other person, like Gwen and the Unquiet Dead. Or honestly, in this case, I felt like Margaret Blaine was a more important character than Jack, especially and even Mickey in some parts.

SPEAKER_02

So I'm down with the Scooby-Doo vibe. Love that. However, I did not like the uh the the Doctor and the Jack dynamic. I feel like they're too similar in their roles that they play, and it like the the doctor got lost because Jack was like taking over his ish, you know? A little bit. So I didn't like it.

SPEAKER_01

I do like that once the doctor regenerates, um, basically the doctor just hates Jack from like series three on. He's not in series two. I had to do math in my head. But essentially, after this series, the doctor just hates Jack. And it's just a long-running thing that goes through the 13th Doctor. And I think that's hilarious. It's okay. We all have people we hate, but still have to hang out with.

SPEAKER_00

I, you know, I I I was all set to be like, I want more episodes with like more like party members because I like it when there are a bunch of people that get and you can like break scenes off into like different chunks with different people. Um, but then I thought about it and I was like, actually, would you want more episodes with Mickey?

SPEAKER_01

No. If we're getting very specific, I don't, I don't think I would want it with the ninth doctor because I love the nine rows, add in a Gwen dynamic, add in like another character dynamic. We did I didn't like Adam. I don't think that he worked very well. But whenever you jump to like the 13th Doctor or Amy, Rory, River, and Eleven, it's like I like those Scooby-Doo adventures more, or just like Team TARDIS with the 13th Doctor. So we're all over the place. And I really loved when it was uh Doctor, Donna, and Martha. I loved their dynamic. Yeah, that was great. So, yes, we love the dynamic, just not here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, one episode with these four companions, more than enough, frankly.

SPEAKER_01

Meanwhile, my episode with all these companions paid Shannon Merrily aces. Wonderful. Need to do again. Y'all, thank you so much for wandering onto the TARDIS today. Thank you for letting me kidnap you for this wacky adventure. Let's just remind the listeners where they can find you and all your wonderful work.

SPEAKER_02

Shannon. Uh, you can find me across all platforms. I'm Shannon Kay at S-H-A-N-N-O-N-C-A-Y.

SPEAKER_01

And Marilee, where can people find you and all your wonderful work?

SPEAKER_00

Again, I don't know why you keep saying like you've kidnapped me. I live in the TARDIS now. Thank you so much for updating the snacks by the pool, by the way. They're delightful big fans. I know I had to waterproof the area. We can't have soggy snacks. Exactly. Yeah, no, but like it's great, it's perfect. Um, and I'm a huge fan. But you can find me and what I'm working on uh with Fear Coded. Again, it's Fear Coded Pod at uh Instagram, Blue Sky, YouTube, anywhere you get your podcasts.

SPEAKER_01

Of course. And Shannon, don't worry, I'll put an en suite in your room with the TARDIS and like a great huge play pen for the little one. Thank you. I appreciate that. I got you. And Paige, remind the Time Lords where they can find you.

SPEAKER_03

They can find me at Thoughts by Page on Blue Sky. I am Hay Smithers on Tumblr, Paige Noel Kaiser on Instagram. I am also on the shh, my stories are on podcast with Chelsea talking mostly about reality TV right now. Um, I also have a substack that's called Um Girlhood and Low Resolution, where I talk about growing up as a girl on the internet in the 2000s.

SPEAKER_01

And it's delightful. So thank you for listening to Across the Universe. We can be found wherever you listen to podcasts. Please make sure to rate and review our show. You can find us on Instagram, Blue Sky Tumblr. Links are all in the show notes, or you can email us your questions or comments at across the Huniversepod at gmail.com. And I'm Chelsea725 on Blue Sky Serialized Letterboxd and Chelsea on Instagram. And if you can find my Tumblr, you're stronger than a Slatine. You can also listen to me on the Q Division, a James Bond movie marathon podcast with our previous companion, Gavin. We love Gavin. We and we're both on Glitter Jaw with Marile. So go find that wherever you listen to podcasts. And of course, shh, my stories are on with Paige. And then if you want to hear me and my friend Jen talk about Karen Gillen and the tragically canceled show Selfie, which might need to get Marile and Paige on an episode for that, go check out the and a rewatch feed. It is so much fun. So be sure to join us for our next adventure across space and time as we revisit part one of our finale, Bad Wolf. And until next time, we'll see you in the Time Vortex.

SPEAKER_05

Bye. Bye. Bye bye.