Across the Whoniverse: A Doctor Who Marathon Podcast
Join your Friendly Neighborhood Time Lord Chels & Muppet of a Time Lord Paige on their Tardis adventures as they marathon Doctor Who.
Across the Whoniverse: A Doctor Who Marathon Podcast
S02E02 "Tooth & Claw" w/ Catrina Parker & Kevin Jacobsen
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Time Lords! This week we're joined by iconic Time Lord Catrina Parker and new companion Kevin Jacobsen as we travel back to a Victorian Werewolf in Scotland.
The Doctor and Rose accidentally land in Scotland 1879 and find themselves traveling with Queen Victoria to visit the Torchwood Estate. Not everything is what it seems, as a group of warrior monks have taken over the estate and have sinister plans for the monarch as the full moon summons a nightmare creature. Queen Victoria may not be amused but she is a lil freak!
Our Tardis team breaks down this silly gilly Monster of the Week episode and its massive ambitions, from wuxia sequences to a CGI werewolf. Kevin gives us the Oscar herstory of our Queen Victoria performer, Best Actress nominee Pauline Collins, while Chels reveals an alternate timeline where Pauline is a companion of the Second Doctor. Paige queers up the episode with speculation about Queen Victoria's late husband Albert and the former owner of the Torchwood Estate. Plus, Catrina shares past moments from Chicago Tardis and Kevin reveals a secret that shocks Chels.
Join us as we travel Across the Whoniverse!
Email us with questions or comments at AcrossTheWhoniversePod@gmail.com
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Welcome to Across the Universe, a Doctor Who Marathon podcast. I'm your friendly neighborhood Time Lord Chelsea.
SPEAKER_02And I'm your Muppet of a Time Lord, Paige.
SPEAKER_03And y'all, we have a silly Billy episode ahead of us.
SPEAKER_02So silly.
SPEAKER_03So silly. And I I've invited a new friend to the show, a new companion. So I also had to bring back one of our most beloved companions. So Katrina Page, let's welcome Kevin to the TARDIS. We've got your ensuite ready. Kevin, welcome to Doctor Who.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much, Chelsea. I don't know where I am. I'm a little scared, but you're here. I also see friendly faces here, so I think I'll be okay.
SPEAKER_03You're gonna be in great hands. One time Katrina made me like TARDIS-shaped cookies that work through all my food allergies, and I think she could make gluten-free ones for you.
SPEAKER_01Oh yes. Need, not a want, a need.
SPEAKER_03Oh, and they are delicious, may I say. So before we really get started, Kevin, this is your first venture into the Hooniverse, but let's just talk about like one thing we talk about earlier before the pod. Monsters of the Week. What's your experience with that before we dive into all my silliness?
SPEAKER_01Monsters of the Week in general, and it all kind of originated for me with Twilight Zone, really. You know, all of those wonderful marathons that I watched with my mother at an age that was probably a little too young for me, but she was like, it's fine, you know, it's black and white. But I'm like still slightly haunted by certain images I saw in that to this day, which is you know normal.
SPEAKER_03That is very fair.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would say that I think we need more monsters of the week just in general nowadays. We don't have enough anymore, I find everything has to be serialized and realistic, and I think we just need more monsters.
SPEAKER_03Less serialized, less cop shows, more monsters of the week where we can just dip in and out. Because I don't think you really need to know too much about Doctor Who to understand what's going on in this episode.
SPEAKER_01No, yeah, I certainly learned the language. We'll say that.
SPEAKER_03It's pretty easy to pick up, I would say. Even though we did give you one of the silliest episodes of Early Who. But before we get too far, this episode features a best actress nominee. And Kevin, that's why you're here. So would you like to tell everyone about your best actress podcast series? And I'm not saying that because I was a guest a few times, but it's a genuinely great podcast.
SPEAKER_01Yes, thank you so much. Well, we look at past Oscar races through a historical lens and break down performances, break down films. I have covered every single best picture race for my first series, and then I did every single best actress race for the next series, which I just finished last year, and I had Chelst on for several very silly episodes across time, really, because we did like what 30s, 70s, 2010s.
SPEAKER_03Yes, you had me on through all the big eras, like from the classic, like what we call the dead demo, to like what people say is the maybe the hottest 70s race, one of the many hottest of the 70s races, and then the 2010s, which were just such a weird time for the Oscars.
SPEAKER_01I I made you re-watch Joy. So you did that to me.
SPEAKER_03And my revenge, everyone. Kevin has made me watch so many weird movies. I had to watch Marcia Mason be terrorized by her husband in the 70s. I had to re-watch a David O'Russell. I've watched Cemaron for you. So that's why I brought you this episode, actually.
SPEAKER_01It's only fair. Only fair. I get it. I totally get it.
SPEAKER_03But our icebreaker for this is let's just dive in. Pauline Collins, one of our best actress nominees in the 80s, she appears in this show a few times, actually, along with other future best actress nominees at this point: Carrie Mulligan, Felicity Jones, your love hate Olivia Coleman. I'm gonna perpetuate that feud, Betty and Joan, till I die.
SPEAKER_01We are not in a feud. I just I have Glenn Close as my favorite, and that's just something that happened in 2019 that she didn't win the Oscar, but that's fine. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Olivia should have just won a couple years later.
SPEAKER_01A tiny bit.
SPEAKER_03That's what I'm saying. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I tend to my grudges, but you know, they're not that big.
SPEAKER_03But no, if this is just for the class, for the TARDIS. Which other best actress nominee would you like to see on Doctor Who? Now, I famously said Glenn Close should play the master on Kevin's podcast. So what are who are some other best actresses we'd like to see on this show? I know Kevin will have a list.
SPEAKER_01I will. I will let anyone else speak if they if they wish.
SPEAKER_04So I'm not really a big like knowing like best actress for this and that, but I I know they want a supporting actress. Um Whoopi Goldberg.
SPEAKER_03Yes, and she was nominated for the color purple. Okay, so she was.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, great answer. Like I know she's a hovian and she has even said she wants to play the doctor, and it's like I like it, but then also I'm like, I kind of want my people to be like my at least a doctor to be braced, because there's I feel like there's a certain like nuance. Yeah, and I don't know if someone from America could do it justice. Sometimes having to Google stuff, and she would be a good villain though.
SPEAKER_03Like I can see it, I see the vision. She can do anything though, she's whoopy. Me and Kevin have talked about this a lot. We love whoopie.
SPEAKER_01I adore whoopy. Oh my god, my favorite supporting actress winner for Ghost. So yeah, yeah, absolutely. Love that.
SPEAKER_02Just let her do anything on there, yeah, anything she wants. I had uh Jessica Lang. I think that would be really fun. I also had uh Rosamond Pike because she has become more and more chaotic in her career as time goes on.
SPEAKER_03I would like to see her play fire hockey in space.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I would love to see it. I also had Ellen Burston.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_02Just just throw her in there somewhere.
SPEAKER_03I believe in her. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. She is still acting, she's still actively working.
SPEAKER_03That is true. Like, let her take a nap. It's okay. Now, Kevin, time for your list. I know it's going to be detailed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know. I I will just say that the cold open of this really made me want to see Michelle Yo on Doctor Who.
SPEAKER_03She could do it.
SPEAKER_01I'll say that. I think she has the action, she has the goofiness she can tap into. She's also done a lot of sci-fi movies. I think she would just have a ball in this world. I'm picturing her as like the matriarch of this powerful family or something, but as like concealing this dark secret about how she gained her power. I came up with a whole storyline for her. But anyway, yeah, would love.
SPEAKER_03I would love that.
SPEAKER_01Really, any actress from the UK that hasn't been on. Like, how has Brenda Blesson not been on Doctor Who yet? Amelda Staunton.
SPEAKER_03I know. Like some of these like legends have like done a voice, and sometimes it's uncredited. And like Diana Rigg did like the most random one-off one, and she's not an Oscar nominee, but in my heart she is.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's just insane, all of these legends who haven't done it but have talked about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh uh Rosmond Pike for sure was on my list as well in any role, really. Um Andrea Riseboro, I think she can shapeshift like nobody's business. So I think she could totally be in here.
SPEAKER_03Uh she could have been on for all we know. We don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you never know. She could have been any of these, like uh Lady Cassandra, who I also learned about.
SPEAKER_02Umxic trampoline.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Uh Cynthia Revo. I mean, there are just so many that could fit in. Although honestly, like I said, I have been listening along to this podcast, and you keep mentioning all these like problematic people behind the scenes, like these you know, sex pests and like these guys who just say the most wild shit. I think in that spirit, we should just go all in and bring in Carla Sophia Gascon.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_01She's a mess. She's a mess, but you know she would eat up whatever role they gave her.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. She very much belongs in series two, doing something awful that we talk about. Put her in love and monsters. Like Katrina knows. It's one of the a lot of people don't like that episode. I'm trying to be nice to episodes I don't appreciate. But yes, I agree with all of these, but also like I'm gonna throw back. I think like seeing Len Redgrave would have been really fun. We're gonna go back in time. Imagine Grier Garson being evil. Like, I wanna see that. Like immediately. Also, Deborah Carr is an action star. I have seen her really bad Bond movie. Put her in there as a killer nun. She could do it.
SPEAKER_05She could love.
SPEAKER_03And then my favorite, Eleanor Parker. Like, she's a diva. I could see her being a Lady Cassandra, like back in the old version of the show, the classic who. I could see it. She'd be wonderful. And for everyone, Eleanor Parker is the Baroness on the sound of music. She's innocent. She did nothing wrong. I would not want to hang out with all them damn kids either.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_03Imagine them kids singing at you, and it's like, let it go.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Growing up is learning that she is not the villain in that story.
SPEAKER_03So exactly. It's the Meredith Blake of it all.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Very much.
SPEAKER_03Oh, this was so much fun. But before we dive really into who, Kevin, Katrina, let's just tell people where they can follow you on the social medias. Katrina, where can people follow you and all your wonderful quirky pop stuff?
SPEAKER_04Um, so yeah, I do have a podcast. It's called Quirky Pop. It's been in hiatus for a while because my health has been the worst. Um, but uh you can still watch old episodes uh mostly wherever you find any other episode. Um I am on TikTok, I'm on Instagram, Chansey Parker. Um, and wow, what is it called? Blue Blue Sky. Blue Sky. It was like blue bird, like no, that's not.
SPEAKER_03It might as well just be blue bird, because the blue bird app.
SPEAKER_01I actually like that name, honestly.
SPEAKER_03A little bit better. So, yes, everyone go follow Katrina. She's one of the nicest people I know. Kevin, where can people find you and all your wonderful podcasts?
SPEAKER_01I am at Kevin Jacobson on Blue Sky, or Bluebird, if you will, and uh letterboxed, uh Kevin underscore Jacobson and Instagram and serialized for my TV logging. And uh you can find my podcast at the Runner Up Is, where I've talked about, like I said, every best picture race, every best actress race, and the world according to Glenn, where I discuss the career of Miss Glenn Close. I have kidnapped our Time Lord Chelsea here and had her on both of these podcasts multiple times. So if you're listening to this and you like Chelsea, you can listen to my episodes with Chelsea to sort of ease you in and have a good time. We have a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_03We do. I'm very proud of that because I've discovered so many great Glenn Close movies like in television work, the um serving in silence, a movie I think about weekly, and then my favorite horrible film, which is also somehow a masterpiece. Things she can tell just by looking at her. Did I get it? So close. So close. That's the closest I've ever been.
SPEAKER_01It's things you can tell just by looking at her.
SPEAKER_03Got it. Things you can tell when she used to be mine.
SPEAKER_01Close enough.
SPEAKER_03Close enough. And then of course, damages. Damages is the one of my favorite seconds.
SPEAKER_01Uh an essential watch.
SPEAKER_03Essential. But y'all, let's just dive into series two, episode two, Tooth and Claw, written by Russell T. Davies, directed by Euros Lynn. This aired, dear God, I'm old, the 22nd of April 2006. And this really just features the 10th Doctor, Rose Tyler, Queen Victoria, and a werewolf, maybe? Question mark. And this is set at the Torchwood House in Aberdeenshire, Scotland, around 1879. And here's our synopses. First by TARDIS Wiki. Landing in the 1870s by accident, the 10th Doctor and Rose get caught up trying to protect Queen Victoria. Happens to us all. However, it seems that something more sinister is afoot than a simple assassination plot. Can the time traveler stop the coming of the Empire of the Wolf? And then I like serialize their synopsis just a smidge more. I think it makes a little more sense. Landing in 1879 Scotland, the Tenth Doctor and Rose meet Queen Victoria traveling with her to spend the night at the Tortuid estate. However, a group of warrior monks have sinister plans for the monarch, and the full moon is about to summon a creature out of legend. Something about warrior monks just makes me giggle.
SPEAKER_01My favorite kind of monk.
SPEAKER_03Like we're about to dive into our first time watching this. I always forget about the warrior monks. Like, what are they doing there? It's so silly.
SPEAKER_02That shows you how much is going on in this episode that you can forget warrior monks.
SPEAKER_03You forget that they go full crouching tiger, hidden dragon in this. And that was the direct inspiration. Katrina. Do you remember the first time you watched this? Yes.
SPEAKER_04Uh, because I I was like binge watching at that point, and I was excited just because um I am one of those people who like I'm sort of angle file where I I probably know more British history than I do um some American history. Uh so I was like looking at like okay, what really happened and how are they doing this and the whole like not amused thing. And even like just trying to pick out the bloodline with the like spoiler at the end with the whole um the vampire thing. The werewolf thing, the twilight. Yeah, like I was just like, oh yeah, so uh Queen Elizabeth and her co-husband, they they both are related to descendants of um Victoria, so like their kids are like double werewolves.
SPEAKER_03Allegedly, allegedly that's the funny thing about the royal history, it's just so messy. You would rather read about that than the US history, which is just sad.
SPEAKER_02Honestly, yeah. There's a lot of good drama over there.
SPEAKER_03I mean, there really is good and bad in that empire, and who knows? Maybe this created a little bit more family drama.
SPEAKER_02Maybe.
SPEAKER_03Now, Kevin, this is your first time watching. What was your impressions? Because we famously do not talk about things before we podcast. So I have no idea where you landed on this.
SPEAKER_01Well, Chels, this is where I have to officially come clean, which is that when you asked me or kidnapped me, I guess, for this episode, which was probably a few months now that you informed me of the future kidnapping. Um, I decided to give myself proper context, and I watched every single episode of series one with Christopher Eccleston, plus the Christmas special and the first episode of series two.
SPEAKER_05Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01You know, I love extra credit, and I will always be that over two.
SPEAKER_03And you know, I never look at what other people are doing on serialized.
SPEAKER_01Well, I strategically did not log them, so that's why I did my extra due diligence. Yes.
SPEAKER_03This has been your secret mission. I'm so proud of you, Kevin. Thank you for doing extra credit.
SPEAKER_01It was so hard keeping this in.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh. I hope you had like your own Zoom breakout telling everyone I'm doing so much work right now.
SPEAKER_01It was just a Zoom breakout of my own, really. But um, no, I had like a really good time with it. I had never seen this show back in the day. It just wasn't something that super interested me. I'm not a huge sci-fi person per se. So I was like, okay, maybe this. I just kind of perhaps unfairly dismissed it. Uh, but I really enjoyed it. I loved Christopher Eccleston and Billy Piper and their chemistry. Love Jackie Tyler. Oh my god. Oh, diva. You know I love her.
SPEAKER_03We are Jackie Tyler's Stan account, first and foremost, to quote our friend Hamish Steele, future companion of the show. Uh, we love her so much, and her getting attacked by a Christmas tree.
SPEAKER_01That was the that was the event of the century for me. But um, yes, I yeah, we'll just really enjoyed it. Love the balance of the serialized with the procedural stuff here and just love that dynamic. And so by the time I got to the end of series one, I'm like, oh no, stop. I don't want the this transfer because I love this like mentor-mentee relationship. And now we have this wonderful little like rom-com-ish dynamic here with David Tennant. And I just really, really like this episode. I thought it had a really exciting energy to it, partly because you're seeing just like how much fun these two are having, but also I like how it kind of takes a bit of a turn towards the end where you're like, okay, these people are getting a little annoying. Like it's they're being very flippant in this situation.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. Like, this is very much an episode people either love or hate for that exact reason. You have to just like the Doctor and Rose are famously kind of annoying sometimes together. Yeah, especially the 10th doctor. Like, I get it. They're they're a little crazy, but I'm so proud of you, Kevin. This just exhilarated me. Uh, this is where me and Katrina Bragg we met Christopher Eccleston last year.
SPEAKER_01Uh oh my god, I'm so jealous.
SPEAKER_04He was fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Oh I believe it. He's one of the good ones, right? He doesn't know. Oh, he's one of the good ones.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he famously left the show because they weren't doing anything about the bad ones.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01There you go. A real one.
SPEAKER_03He is a real one. We love him. He also has some audios with Billy Piper going on right now. So if you ever get bored, let me know.
SPEAKER_01Right now.
SPEAKER_03They release every other month, so they have about even six of them out right now.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03And they're fun, just little hour audio dramas.
SPEAKER_01Good to know.
SPEAKER_03Me and Paige might cover them on Patreon.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Love Pauline Collins here. Love all the energy she's bringing to this.
SPEAKER_03Tell everyone about Pauline Collins because you have actually seen her Oscar-nominated film, Shirley Valentine, but I feel like I really attached to her in the Glenn Close movie that was also kind of scary. Paradise Road? Is that what it was called? Yes. I watched that for your podcast and it was insane.
SPEAKER_01A movie that doesn't really exist, but that's okay. Um Shirley Valentine, uh movie from 1989. It was adapted from a one-woman show that she was in. Then she, I believe, won a Tony for that. And she's playing like this unhappy housewife who goes on a trip to Greece and kind of goes on this nice little journey of self-actualization, which is the best genre, as we all know. A woman self-actualizing.
SPEAKER_03Truly what all movies need to be about women and on their own journeys, which is what Doctor Who's about, if you really think about it as a rose to her story.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but she's breaking the fourth wall a lot. It's very fleet bag of its time. So she's charming. It's nice.
SPEAKER_03It is. And I do want to read her biography. I've heard it's kind of wild. I know she's had a wild life, y'all. Rest in peace, babe girl. So, y'all, any other first impressions before we dive into this silly gilly-billy episode?
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah. Uh, just um I kind of looked it up before I saw the episode, or a little bit after about how the exic thing with David Tennant, and I'm just like, what? So I think that's around the time when I found out, like, oh, that's not his actual accent. It's different.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. David Tennant doing a Scottish accent throughout this and going back and forth. I was proud of him because a lot of actors I've you saw in the Julia Roberts movie Mary Riley. Some actors do 12 accents in one sentence in a movie. David Tennant, like flawlessly switching back and forth between two accents. I was so proud of him.
SPEAKER_02Impressive.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And I will say before we really get into this, I like that this episode it was they thought it might be a season premiere, then they're like, goodness no. And then because of the weird CG, they were like, hmm, this one's not as good as the ones around it. And then we're like, I guess we're just gonna bury it as episode two. And I was like, oh, that makes sense, my memory. And then I rewatched it. I'm like, actually, it's not as bad as I remember. It's just silly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's just deeply silly.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like the first four episodes of this show, they really just put into whatever order, mostly what was done first. Because this show famously is not very well produced under Russell. They always are running late. Let's just dive into this plot because I am already laughing at our opening scene. Because we open on some hooded monks led by Father Angelo entering the Torchwood House and demanding possession of the property, or they'll take it by force. And this chief of staff guy, he refuses, so the monks go full crouching tiger, hidden dragon, and use their martial arts skills to take over the estate. Again, fully memory hold this, and I've seen this episode so many times.
SPEAKER_02Me too. I was like, oh, that's how that opens. And then they never do that again. The like whole martial arts of it all. Nope.
SPEAKER_01That's what I was gonna bring up is that like this is insane to me when you factor in what is to come with the rest of this episode, because it really does feel like Russell T. Davies is like, wouldn't it be cool if we had like monks who are doing like this badass Wuxa martial martial arts, like the matrix crouching tiger, hidden dragon, and then like someone else took over the rest of the store, and they're like, No, we're scrapping that, but somehow this still is here.
SPEAKER_03These are Scottish monks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and they do kung fu.
SPEAKER_03They do some kung fu. They take like they just take over, y'all. They force the staff and Lady Isabel into the cellar and they chain them all to the wall before carrying in this like covered cage. This is what I would call my copper dog. He's being carried in like the lady of the land. And whenever they're asked what's in the cage, Father Angelo uncovers it, and we don't see it, but all we see is Lady Isabel screaming. And the whole time I kept thinking she looks like Vicky Creeps. Oh they look they look very similar. Complimentary.
SPEAKER_01I see that. I see it, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yes. This is where we smash to credits, and again, bring back opening credit sequences. I miss them.
SPEAKER_02Always.
SPEAKER_01And get rid of the skip intro button. I'll just add that.
SPEAKER_03Truly ban that, abolish.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And then we come back to the TARDIS, and the doctor is just low-key showing off, and Rose is calling him a punk. And they're this is where they're still discovering who the doctor really is after the regeneration. And he's like, I'm gonna take you to this concert in 1979, and it's a hell of a year because of the Muppets movie. Yay, Paige!
SPEAKER_02That was for me specifically.
SPEAKER_03And Margaret Thatcher, which Merrill, return the Oscar, please.
SPEAKER_01Who was that for?
SPEAKER_03Who was it for? No one.
SPEAKER_01Who was that for on the panel?
SPEAKER_03For whom.
SPEAKER_01For whom?
SPEAKER_03But once they land and they step out of the TARDIS, they are immediately held at gunpoint, and the doctor quickly realizes they landed in 1879. You know, same difference to him.
SPEAKER_02That's one of my favorite bits in the show is how often the doctor gets cocky and he brags about how he could take someone anywhere in time, and then they just show up somewhere totally different. It never gets old, truly.
SPEAKER_03It really doesn't. The TARDIS is always making the doctor look like a fool. Yeah. Kevin, I think you've realized after watching so many episodes, like what, 15 episodes now? The TARDIS is its own girl. She's a hot girl and bad bitch in her own right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I love that. The TARDIS is a little moody sometimes and is like, no, I'm not gonna follow your orders.
SPEAKER_03Honestly.
SPEAKER_01And good for her.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Love her. The TARDIS. If you continue your journey in the show, the TARDIS does eventually become a person for an episode.
SPEAKER_05Look good. Okay.
SPEAKER_03But y'all, armed soldiers demand he explain his presence and the presence of the naked girl, aka Rose Tyler, in her pink shirt and overalls. And the doctor quickly puts on a Scottish accent because David Tennant is actually Scottish, and he introduces himself as Dr. James McCrimen, which is a reference to the second doctor's Scottish companion, Jamie McCrimin, who is like actually from the 1600s and was a fun companion like so long ago. And the actor is still alive. I got to meet him last year. He was so super cute.
SPEAKER_04Fraser's everywhere.
SPEAKER_03He's everywhere. He's just be bebopping around the world. And good for him.
SPEAKER_02Isn't he going to be at Chicago TARDIS this year as well? He is.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah. And Gallifray One. And I saw him at Lai Who last week. Oh. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I love that for him. Good for you, babes. And I like that the doctor's just explaining he's confused and tired from chasing the naked child around, and he uses his little psychic paper to show off his credentials. And then a little woman's voice pipes up from the carriage. Let them approach. And y'all, I was just thrilled to see this because when they approach, the doctor introduces Rose to Queen Victoria, who's on her way to Balmoral Castle. The Queen sees the psychic paper and notes that the doctor was appointed as her protector. So this takes the doctor by surprise a little bit, but he rolls with it because he's curious. He will go to a second, third, and fourth location because he would be kidnapped.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03I know. And he learns they're traveling by carriage, like there was a tree on the train line, and the queen states it might be an assassination attempt. And she kind of brags that she's stared down the barrel of a gun so many times. I'm like, okay, girl, you're an action star. Love it. I know. She's just Pauline Collins is very funny being like a hot girl and a bad bitch in this.
SPEAKER_01I love this interpretation of Queen Victoria. I'll just say that.
SPEAKER_03I know. Like she takes no fools. And the soldiers tell them they're going to stay at the Torchwood Estate tonight, and the Queen says the Doctor and Rose will join her. She also warns them about the scary stories of wolves as if they're real. But the Doctor and Rose, they kind of just follow behind the carriage and they start to place a bet if Rose can get the queen to say, I am not amused. Katrina, I you were so tickled by this, weren't you?
SPEAKER_04I was, because I mean, girl, probably always go, We are not amused all of the time. So I'm like, I would probably I probably would have made a bet like that as well to see, well, probably not because I would have been scared to get in trouble, but I would have been like laughing about it, like, oh well, you're gonna like try to get this together to say that. So I that was funny to watch that.
SPEAKER_03That's true. You are a rule follower, but you would be thinking about doing something. I would be thinking about it. Like waiting for an opportunity for her to say it. Like you'd be waiting, like but back at the estate, Sir Robert watches them arrive from a window as Father Angelo, disguised as a servant, threatens them to comply, or his wife will be devoured. He goes down to meet the queen, who asks about the his wife, Lady Isabel, and Sir Robert's like, oh no, she's indisposed. She's gone to Edinburgh for the season. She took the kitchen staff, really trying to make his home seem so unappealing to her majesty. But the queen really finds it all charming and rustic and is excited to visit this house for the first time since her late husband, Prince Albert, he loved the estate and he was super great friends with Sir Robert's father. And this is the part where I really thought that, like, is Prince Albert gay or something? Because it's like I have this in my house. Yes.
SPEAKER_01I was like, are they friends? Have they explored each other's bodies? I need answers.
SPEAKER_03They are a little too close for friendship. Like they have secrets that she did not know about.
SPEAKER_02I want to know more about that backstory.
SPEAKER_03Again, we can make anything gay if we try.
SPEAKER_02We can. And we do.
SPEAKER_01Does this ever come back? Because this is a very evocative world. This all of this. Like I'm I'm like thinking of fanfiction from this, but anyway.
SPEAKER_03You know what? It probably exists.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure.
SPEAKER_03And then we just like briefly cut down to the cellars where a hooded man warns all of the prisoners to be silent. And by all the prisoners, it's like most of the house staff and Lady Isabel and that chief of staff guy. I will say, having them all on the same chain attached to the wall does seem like a bad idea. That seems like poor, poorly thought out.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03And then we cut back inside where we see soldiers carrying a small leather box into the home where they hide it in a safe. And I want to know what's in the box. But Sir Robert is just showing around the queen and the doctor and Rose, and they're in the observatory and they see his father's telescope. The doctor notices it has like way too much magnification and is like really insulting it. He's like, that's not good for stargazing. There's way too many prisons. But Sir Robert says he doesn't understand it either. And the queen notes that Sir Robert's father was versed in science and folklore, and that her husband loved his stories about local wolves. Again.
SPEAKER_02He loved folklore.
SPEAKER_03Gay.
SPEAKER_01I'm putting together the evidence. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02This is the dossier. He liked looking at the stars. Gay.
SPEAKER_01And that's what they used to call it. Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But then Father Angelo interrupts them before they can really get into the stories. And you know what? Let's get these guests to the room. It's about to get dark. They need to find Rose appropriate clothes for dinner. I love that they're worried about her overalls making her naked. What would they say about you, Paige? What is that supposed to mean? You would have glitter on you, and they'd be like, Witch. True.
SPEAKER_02That's just so true.
SPEAKER_03They saw your ankles, Paige. Look out.
SPEAKER_02I know.
SPEAKER_03Scandalous. And then I do love that as Rose is searching for appropriate clothes, we just see the monks serve these soul, the soldiers, drugged drinks, and it just knocks them out. And I'm like, okay, you can get roofied in the 1800s. Got it. And then Rose finds like a servant in the wardrobe. Her name's Flora. And Flora's like, uh, these monks took everybody. And Rose is like, let me take you to the doctor. Don't finish your story, but he'll figure it out. And she doesn't want to, but Rose drags her out and they stumble upon all the roofied soldiers, and the monks and they just end up snatching them both up. Again, Rose sometimes just runs into danger without thinking, maybe be a little sneakier.
SPEAKER_02She's always so dedicated to helping out the like what we call the help constantly on the show where she's like connecting with all these different people. And that's her focus.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Rose is from the same class as these other people. So she's always worried about them and their well-being.
SPEAKER_05Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna mention this too. I like too that this isn't really directly like commented on how she has this pattern of always gravitating to like working class people, but also in Billy Piper's performance, too. I think she has like such an openness, and like these people just kind of naturally want to open up to her in a way that's just yeah, I'd I I like that. I like that she is kind of this safe space for like people going through whatever injustice is happening anywhere in space and time, you know.
SPEAKER_03And she's such a magnetic actress, like that. Like you just genuinely believe her. Um, I want her to be in more movies now. But y'all, let's cut back to Father Angelo joining the doctor, Sir Robert and Queen Victoria at dinner. And he's like, uh, Rose is just delayed, she's having some clothing issues, but the doctor's like, it's fine, just save her some ham, which is what I say about all of my dogs every single day. Copper will have ham after this. Queen Victoria says the feral child should. Pauline Collins, her line reads are good because Queen Victoria says the feral child could probably eat it raw, and her she was having way too much fun with this.
SPEAKER_02She's like, I thought she cooked with that one. She really did.
SPEAKER_03I do also like that while she's making a joke, she scolds her captain for laughing too much, and she's like, it's a slight wit. It's not that great, y'all. Don't laugh too hard. Don't kiss my ass too much.
SPEAKER_01Honestly, fair. You know, I get it.
SPEAKER_03She she's self-aware. She then tells the doctor that since her husband's death, she has more of a taste for supernatural fiction because Queen Victoria is a little freak.
SPEAKER_02You just know she would love all of those like vam like vampire and werewolf romances that are happening now.
SPEAKER_03The romanticy, I believe, is what the book talk calls it. Did I get that right?
SPEAKER_04Yes, the romantic. That's actually pretty accurate with her in real life. Like that she was noted for hating children and childbirth, but she loved making the babies.
SPEAKER_02She was a freak.
SPEAKER_04And word has it, she had it like a side piece years later after Albert died. This like Indian guy. I think there's like a book or a movie or something about it.
SPEAKER_01Abdul. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Victorian Abdul, an almost Oscar nominated movie.
SPEAKER_01Yes, Judy Dench.
SPEAKER_03Oh, the Dench.
SPEAKER_01And now I am picturing Judy Dench doing all this and also wielding a gun. Spoiler alert for later.
SPEAKER_03I has Judy Dench been on Doctor Who or done anything, Doctor Who? Paige, can you confirm? I don't know. She's a very busy lady.
SPEAKER_02But it seems like something that she should have done.
SPEAKER_03I feel like she could do a voice, but no. The doctor notes that she must miss her husband, and Pauline Collins, she does get this really nice monologue to dig into as Queen Victoria like really connects her fascination with supernatural and ghost stories with the hope of getting a message from the Great Beyond, but the dead stay silent and they must wait to hear from them. And I really like this moment. It's a really nice monologue for her. She just can sell so much. That's what happens when you hire great actresses in these guest parts.
SPEAKER_01That's what I was gonna say. This is exactly why you hire Pauline Collins to deliver on this idea. And also, like just even what she's saying. I was like, this is actually very insightful, something I haven't thought about and could explain. Like, if you need to like explain why you love ghost stories or even horror movies, like if people question you about that, it's like this very interesting concept about like our limited view of what life is and such, and that there could conceivably be some other spirit or afterlife that's kind of would give you hope or something.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. You know, I think she would like David Lowry's a ghost story as well, like Queen Victoria and probably Pauline Collins, honestly. I think she'd be great in something like that.
SPEAKER_02I have a side note. Yes, because I Googled Judy Dench and Doctor Who history. Apparently, Russell T. Davies was trying to get her to be the ninth doctor.
SPEAKER_03Listen, I would have loved it. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02Which seems like that could have been a completely different show for so many reasons. And he tried to get her for one of the Christmas specials, apparently, and she turned it down.
SPEAKER_03I was gonna say, I feel like there is definitely like an iconic British actress who has done a Christmas special or something, at least a voice. I will figure this out and report back one day. But I do like like cutting back to this Pauline Collins thing. Like she's telling this really like beautiful monologue of a story about her husband and missing him, and then just immediately pivots and demands Sir Robert tell them of the wolf monsters at dinner as if it's like, nope, she's done talking about this, she's ready to move on. Just like her hard pivot is a great acting choice.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03And then we just be cutting back and forth from the cellar to Sir Robert's stories at this point, because we see Rose and Flora, they're chained to the wall with everybody else, and Rose notes that the monster is in a cage and a prisoner, just like them. But Lady Isabel says the creature isn't mortal. And then we hear Sir Robert's tale going back 300 years that once in a generation a boy will vanish from the area, just as we see like Rose question this caged monster and she's clocking his alien-looking eyes. And then Sir Robert describes a man that becomes an animal, a werewolf, and the monster says that his body was stolen by the monks, maybe 10 miles away, but his soul is from a much further place. When Rose offers to take him home, he's like, uh, I don't want to leave, but I just want to go into Queen Victoria's body, and with one bite, I can start the Empire of the Wolf. And she this like creature also notes that Rose has something of a wolf about her, but she burned like the sun, but all he requires is the moon. And this is the big reference to Rose's bad wolf warrio in season one. I like this is it does get goofy, but I'm still it still has me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I enjoy it. I did like the reference, but I'm I'm also like, yeah, she has no fear as she is talking to this odd man with black eyes and is just like, I've seen so many things across the universe. What's this man with black eyes, you know?
SPEAKER_03Again, this is nothing for her. Like Rose Tyler disintegrated like an entire army of Daleks. I'm not she ain't scared of this.
SPEAKER_02And again, she has empathy for him where everyone else is like, either he needs to die or they're like terrified of him.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03And like the episode doesn't focus on it, but Rose does say he's also a prisoner as well, because he is being controlled by the monks. So we cut back to Sir Robert and he says his father believed those old wolf tales and claimed to have communicated with the werewolf, but the monks opposed his investigations. Sir Robert thinks they turned from God to worship this wolf, and the doctor clocks immediately that the staff is being a little weird. They're all looking out the windows, and then he's like, What if they're with them now? And so Rose tries to rally all the others chain to the wall to pull the chains free, just as the moonlight hits this caged creature, and he turns into the most 2000 CG TV monster you could imagine. And you know what? Everyone, let's just go back to that kind of cheesiness. Fuck AI. I do not care about the boring CG. That's all so bland. I don't need it to look like a video game. I want it to look very silly.
SPEAKER_01I agree. I don't need it to even look photorealistic.
SPEAKER_03You know, they could literally just have these like little action figures be stop motion or little puppets, and I would be thrilled. Although, based on series one, I do fear like did they use half the series two budget on just this episode? Because they will do that for a CG episode, just use most of the budget.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I feel like they had to have.
SPEAKER_03Probably. But upstairs, Sir Robert apologizes to the queen before him and the doctor. Like they just have to boot scoot to the cellar to save their girls, save the staff, and they leave Queen Victoria with her captain and Father Angelo. Father Angelo disarms the captain, but after six assassination attempts, the queen packs a gun and shoots Father Angelo dead.
SPEAKER_02I con behavior.
SPEAKER_03When she pulled out that gun, it was truly my joke of give X person a gun. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Literally in my notes, all I wrote down is Pauline Collins has a gun. Period.
SPEAKER_03I need a gift and a gif of this. Yes. She was so funny. And then downstairs, they save everyone in the cellar, but the boys, y'all. The werewolf takes out all the boys because they were too cocky. They had their guns, and they're like, we can take it out. And the doctor's like, uh no. But they're they all ignore him and the wolf wins. Y'all. I feel like this is just a lesson to big bro men. You cannot beat the wolf. No, you are not tougher. Nature will get you. But I do like that this becomes like like a little home horror film because all these armed monks that we forgot about that do their little mark martial arts, they've surrounded the house as the werewolf wanders about. And the women try to hide in the kitchen and the werewolf enters it, but and he like sniffs around, he's like, it stinks in here, and leaves very quickly. Upstairs, Queen Victoria is getting her box from the safe as the doctor tells her the front door is boarded shut and she's gonna have to leg it out the window. And you know what? Our action star, she does not hesitate. She thinks about it. She also lies and says the captain d disposed of Father Angelo. I love that she just lies. For like nobody would judge her. Well, the the doctor might judge a little bit, but not really. Nobody would judge her for doing a little murder.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna talk about this. Why do we think she does end up lying?
SPEAKER_03Because she's the queen. She's not packing heat.
SPEAKER_01Protecting her image here.
SPEAKER_03Probably.
SPEAKER_01She doesn't directly say that she wants to have she had killed someone by her own hand.
SPEAKER_03Probably. That's what I'm assuming. But you know what? I encourage lying for fun.
SPEAKER_02And has she killed before? Because it was so easy for her.
SPEAKER_03She did not hesitate.
SPEAKER_01And will she kill again?
SPEAKER_02And will she kill again? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. As they're like trying to escape, the monks shoot at them, and Rose tells the queen that the wolf has left. Lined her up for a biting and she's like, ah, damn. But she doesn't believe it's an actual wolf until she she hears it howl. And again, this is where the cheesiness comes in. She's like, this isn't a wolf. And then you just hear it, and I'm like, yes, bring back that 2000s cheesiness. They run for the library and barricade the doors, but the wolf does not chase them inside. The doctor tries to figure out what's protecting them in the room. And him and Rose, Loki, just giggle about it being a real werewolf. And Sir Robert apologizes to Queen Victoria again and explains he tried to warn her away. But guess what? Our girl's not having it. And she asks what the creature is and asks if she should trust the doctor because he changes his accent so easily. Clocked him. This is like me not trusting somebody for a very petty reason and then bringing it up later. Like again, how many times have we looked at an actor or just a person in our regular life and we're like, I'm not sure why I don't like you, but I don't like you. And it's just because of how they wear a shirt or don't tuck in their shirt or something.
SPEAKER_02That's me with Hugh Jackman.
SPEAKER_03Oh you couldn't figure it out for the longest time and then you figured it out.
SPEAKER_02I just don't trust him. Something about him, he has secrets.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. But yes, back in the kitchens with Lady Isabel and the servants, they realize mistletoe is protecting them from the werewolf, and she's like telling all the servants, gather it all, we're making mistletoe soup. And down in the library, the doctor has the same realization as the servants, and that mistletoe is warding away the werewolf, and it's likely the monks trained it to think it was allergic. So we do learn that the monks are controlling the werewolf in this moment. It's not emphasized enough in the episode. I think the monks kind of get away a little easy. They're the real villains, I think.
SPEAKER_01Fight the real enemy, the monks.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. Fight religion.
SPEAKER_01But also, I did want to mention too about this mistletoe thing. I did want to look up to see if there was like a historical thing behind this, like mythology, folklore kind of thing about werewolves. And it is like dates back to Norse mythology and like the druids and how they used it to ward off spirits. So got Russell really doing his research here, you know, rather than just being like, oh, I don't know, like silver or something like we usually see, you know.
SPEAKER_03Russell really is a mythology gay.
SPEAKER_04But like now during Christmas time, when I see mistletoe, I think about the the werewolves now. I'm like, oh werewolf protector. You're safe.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I love that. And then I do like that the doctor, they're in the library, and he says books are the best weapons in the world, and they just start skimming through all the books to see if there's anything Sir Robert's father left about the werewolves. Now, everyone, I want you to look on your own shelf and tell me if your personal library could save you from a werewolf invasion.
SPEAKER_02Oof. I mean, I have a lot of like fantasy and horror books, so I guess using like knowledge from them about how people dealt with things like that.
SPEAKER_03Maybe. I think I have a heavy enough shelf just to push on a werewolf.
SPEAKER_02Like physically, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Kevin, look at your shelf. Is it right off to the side?
SPEAKER_01My shelf is not currently in view, but it would depend on the shelf. I have a movie book shelf, I have a fiction shelf, I have a just movies and TV, assorted shelf. I don't think any of this would help. So no. That's a hard no for me.
SPEAKER_03You're a lost complete series box set would not help you.
SPEAKER_01Not in this case, unless I just, you know, smack it around.
SPEAKER_03That's true.
SPEAKER_01I do have a large sound of music box set that could work.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh. Please send me pictures later.
SPEAKER_01I will.
SPEAKER_03But y'all, I do love this. Everyone, go get a library card because you can watch Doctor Who via hoopla if you have one.
SPEAKER_02One of the few ways to watch. Which I did. That's what I did, by the way. Love it. Love it.
SPEAKER_05Spinch pass. Yep.
SPEAKER_03Y'all, back in the kitchen, the girls are boiling the mistletoe, and you know what? They're arming themselves because you can cook. And I just like that the girls figured this out on their own, that they're not some super smart alien who did it, that they just have common sense. Sometimes, again, listen to the servants, listen to women. And then back in the library, I love that after skimming a bunch of the books, they find a story about a shooting star falling in the monastery, and the doctor theorizes that a single cell of something alien survived and has been passing itself from host to host for 300 years, and it's getting stronger with each generation. And it wants to pass itself to the monarchy and establish an empire. And actually, the werewolf is my dog copper right now. He is trying to establish himself an empire. I support his dreams though.
SPEAKER_02This is so interesting because with werewolf lore, we don't usually get the backstory of it being like alien-derived.
SPEAKER_03I love it. It's a little twist on the fantasy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's very unique.
SPEAKER_01Mixing the sci-fi with the supernatural. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. And then I love that Queen Victoria tells Sir Robert that she'd rather die than be infected and asks him to find a safe place for something precious. And then she pulls out the Ko-Enor out of the box. Big ass diamond, y'all. And then the greatest diamond in the world at the time. And legend says whoever owns it must surely die. So I personally would not be walking around with a diamond like that, babes. Just personally no, I'd keep that under lock and key. And then she was she says she was taking it to be recut, but the doctor asks to look at it. And Rose jokes that her mom would fight the wolf with her bare hands for it, and the doctor jokes that Jackie would win.
SPEAKER_01Yes, she it would.
SPEAKER_03And she says Prince Albert kept having the diamond cut down because the shine was never right, and it was left unfinished, and the doctor realizes the diamond is connected to Sir Robert's father's research. The doctor says this house is a trap within a trap, and the wolf starts crashing through the skylight into the library, so they all gotta boot scoot on out. Lady Isabel saves them in the hallway by throwing some mistletoe broth at the werewolf, and our heroes head to the towards the conservatory. This is where it gets Scooby-Doo silly, and we just like speed rush through plot question mark. Queen Victoria gives the diamond to the doctor, and him and Rose start moving the telescope to align with the full moon while Sir Robert stands guard between them and the werewolf. The werewolf takes him out, though, and just starts tearing into the conservatory. I love that Queen Victoria, she's just holding a cross at the door the whole time. I died a little bit. And she the werewolf just bursts through and slashes at Victoria, but the moonlight passes through the telescope to the diamond, magnifying the light, and like it takes out the werewolf, and then whatever little thing is left, it's like, yeah, can you magnify and just let me die? And I like that this alien entity just wanted to die at that point because they knew something bad was happening and they didn't want to be a part of it.
SPEAKER_02And the doctor didn't fight them on it whatsoever.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. And this is where I think they could have talked a little bit more about the monks like using our little werewolf against its will. I think that would be a little more interesting, made it a stronger episode. But I did have fun with the silliness we got. Back to the silly. The doctor notices the queen's bleeding wrist and asks if the werewolf bit her, but she dismisses him very harshly and says, it's just like the wood hitting me from when the werewolf burst through the door. It's fine. I'm fine. It didn't get me. Uh-huh. Sure, babes.
SPEAKER_02Again, she looks thrilled to have been bitten by a werewolf. She is a little freak.
SPEAKER_03A little too acquired, babe. She is. She was like. And then the next day, Queen Victoria dubs our two time travelers, Sir Doctor of TARDIS and Dame Rose of the Pala State. And then she promptly banishes them from the Empire and admits she's not amused, not remotely amused, and just goes off on them. They are way too fascinated by the stars and everything about that, and they're a little too entertained by it. She is not having it. So the doctor and Rose, they get they hitch a little ride back to the TARDIS, but they're thrilled to like talk about everything going on. And the doctor gets into the mystery of Queen Victoria and her children being hemophiliacs, but she didn't inherit it from her parents. And Rose says the royal family are werewolves, and then they start joking that the gene mutation eventually got to Anne. And you know, maybe Charles. I think we could all believe that Charles is a werewolf.
SPEAKER_01The Princess Anne's shade was wild, I will say.
SPEAKER_04I was gonna say of all the royals, like there were others. Right, yeah. I know Queen Elizabeth, when she was alive, she watched a show, and I just sometimes wonder like when people or just famous people or noble people, they're watching a favorite TV show, and then like they end up catching a stray, and they're like, Why am I in this?
SPEAKER_03Why am I enjoying the show? Katrina, I felt this way about the Christmas invasion where they're just outing the royal family's blood type. Right. I will say, we do cut back to Queen Victoria and Lady Isabel, and we're kind of setting up the Torchwood of it all because Lady Isabel, her husband's dead, she just like wants to sell or tear down this estate. But the Queen, she wants to create the Torchwood Institute, and if the Doctor returns, he should beware because Torchwood will be waiting. And that kind of sets up for the rest of the series the Russell run of this show because Torchwood eventually becomes its own thing. But at first, it does not like the Doctor. No. The end.
SPEAKER_01Wow. What a journey.
SPEAKER_03What a journey. We really queered it up. We didn't even have to like make it up too much. I mean, it was there.
SPEAKER_02The context is there.
SPEAKER_03Russell is a queer writer, though, so everything in this show is gay.
SPEAKER_01And I believe the director is gay too, right?
SPEAKER_03Let me see if this one is.
SPEAKER_01Did I make that up?
SPEAKER_03No, and there's definitely a gay one.
SPEAKER_01Okay. There's definitely a gay one.
SPEAKER_03There's definitely a gay one. This is how I just talk in my regular life. Euros. Euros, are you gay, babes? You made some great television. I think he is. He is. Love wins. There we have it.
SPEAKER_05I knew it.
SPEAKER_04But yeah, I didn't even think about the connection between um Queen Victoria's husband and Robert's dad. I'm like, oh my god, oh I can see that. But I think just like his hysteric historically, like the Royals are some freaky people. Like Edward, who is like um Victoria's son, he becomes king. And he was known as they would call him King Key because he was like so freaking would visit Rothels and like his like number one mistress, uh, her name was Alice. Um was there when he died, and many years later, her great-granddaughter is now the Queen Consort of England.
SPEAKER_03I mean again, we all know the royals are freaks. We didn't have to get past Charles in elementary school to know this.
SPEAKER_02They have soap opera level drama in that family.
SPEAKER_03I mean, the crown exists for a reason. They had to get the 11th doctor in there to investigate. Right. And then our monster of the week. It's like we don't really revisit Father Angelo and the monks, who I would call the real villains, but our werewolves, this is really their only appearance in the show. And there is like an Empire of the Wolf comics run later, but it's kind of just completely unrelated to this. They just liked the name and to bring back werewolves. Bring back werewolves.
SPEAKER_01I I would like to know their platform, the Empire of the Wolf. What ideas do they have?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Listen, it couldn't be much worse than the colonizers.
SPEAKER_01That part.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I think Big Finish would be good because, like, I in an uh 13 Doctor uh story, and in um one of the fusion doctor stories, they've talked about the Bloodlords, which kind of sounds like a game name.
SPEAKER_03It's not not. And then we do have a listener question, a voice note. Let me pull it up because oh, this is so nice of them.
SPEAKER_02Let me very lovely.
SPEAKER_03Their name is Lee, and they're at the future for everyone on Blue Sky.
SPEAKER_00Hello, Chels and Paige. My name is Lee, and I've recently discovered your podcast. It started with the episode you did on Boomtown, which I enjoyed, and some some interactions on Blue Sky, which I thought were really cool. So I decided to add you to my podcast attic rotation and check out some more stuff. So I've been a Doctor Who fan for like a hundred billion years. Original stuff, new stuff, and I'm really enjoying the big finish audios. And there's there's a fan audio series from Who Corner to Corner that's actually quite good. Uh, it's interesting to see where that's going. So, yeah, major, major fan. Um So you said to submit a question, and I don't know quite what to ask, but I'll hit you with something that I was thinking about watching this series and thinking about the context. So, Queen Elizabeth goes to Scotland, blah blah blah. You're gonna be talking about that. But what struck me was how the story would have changed if she went to, say, Ireland, where the werewolf mythology has the possibility that the werewolves are protectors and are actually benevolent. So I started thinking, wow, what would the story have been if she had gone there? Would it be the monks or these creatures actually acting to deal with someone that is not considered a benevolent benevolent force for the country? How does that story change if we go to in India or if we go to Africa like the Zulus or something like that? I just you asking for a question sent me down the rabbit hole. So I was wondering how do you guys see a story maybe changing, becoming more interesting or just different by changing the location in the empire in which Queen Victoria encounters werewolves.
SPEAKER_03Okay, we will answer this first part, and I think the next part is kind of just nice stuff. Um, basically, if we change the location, how do you think it would affect the mythology? I do like the idea of Ireland and the werewolf as a protector. I think if you change it up, especially with the monks, I think that would be a really fun like perspective on it. And I kind of wish they had done that as previously stated. Paige, I know you like mythology a lot.
SPEAKER_02I I do really like mythology. I thought this was a really interesting question because that's something I didn't really consider watching this episode, but it would really change partially like how you view Queen Victoria, I think, because I mean we all know Queen Victoria did, you know, stuff that was not great as the whole royal family did, but she's you know pleasant in this episode, she's funny, she's charismatic, so we end up liking her. But if this story would have taken place in like India or Africa, like Lee was saying, I think they would have had to address like the colonialism of it all, the tie-in with the diamond, which there's so much controversy because the diamond is a real artifact in real life that is claimed to belong to the Indian people. And so they would have had to tie that in somehow.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think like had this been in a more, we'll just say post-13 Doctor era, they would be able to address that more because I think of like the Demons of Punjab episode and like subsequent episodes story in the engine. I think culturally they would have been more willing to criticize the royal family. Because there's definitely a version of this story where the royal family's the villains, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that's what I was gonna say. It's just I think it would just make it more political in other countries, just in general, like and you you would have to probably address something because they don't really do that much here with Scotland.
SPEAKER_04No, so yeah. I um I think if they were to switch it like that, it would kind of remind me of that one um 15 Doctor episode where they do the intergalactic um singing contests, and everyone's like, Oh, these people are evil and bad, and then you find out what was done to them by the corporation that does the program and stuff. I think it would probably be something like that where you know Victoria's like, oh, they're this and they're that, and then you're like, actually no, and actually you're the villain.
SPEAKER_03Yes, the the Space Eurovision episode with Shoty. Shootie had some really interesting episodes that got a little bit better at addressing this stuff than early in the run of the show when they were just scared of saying things and honestly just not progressively there.
SPEAKER_02There's also so much going on in this episode that I feel like that would be just too much to put in there if they also addressed everything else.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, it would have to be completely rewritten for that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it'd have to be a much different story.
SPEAKER_03I'd like to read it, or if they did an audio, I wouldn't mind. But let's see what the rest of this says, because I'm not gonna lie, I forgot.
SPEAKER_00Oh, if it's also okay to ask another question, I had recommended that you guys check out the Chris Chibnell interview about Parkwood murders because you guys started talking about that. So I'd I'd like to know if you thought that interview was cool or not, or whatever. Anyway, hello, I'm glad you guys are here, and congratulations on your second season, if I can call it that, if since you're doing season two. Just know that I will super be on board when you do Martha. She's one of my favorite companions for so many reasons, and I think a little too underappreciated, though. I find that people who really paid attention to that series love her. Enjoying you guys, and lots of luck with this podcast.
SPEAKER_03This was so nice. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, Lee.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much for all your nice words. Uh, Kevin, if you continue on Doctor Who, you would die for Martha Jones. You would love Dr. Martha Jones. She is so cool. But yes, uh, I have listened to that Chris Chibnel interview. And if people subscribe to our Patreon, we're doing Book Club where we're gonna talk about his two books, the little murder mystery series. I'm having a great time with it right now, and I'm not usually a murder mystery person, but it's very broad church where it's like an ensemble of characters and the investigator. So I'm like, easy. That's my kind of thing. There's actually queer characters in it. It's I love a good fascinating ensemble piece. We're gonna have fun with it. Yes, we are. Everyone, hit up the Patreon. We're doing really fun stuff, including our arts and crafts time. I'm learning how to crochet. I know. Look out. Chelsea is gonna be a renaissance woman. Oh my goodness. So, some fun little facts. So, our girl Pauline Collins was back in Classic Who. She actually appeared in a second Doctor story as Samantha Briggs. And eventually they did offer her a companion role, but she turned it down to focus on other projects. So she appeared in a full six-episode story. Sadly, only two of those four episodes currently exist. So people, it they're discovering new episodes every other month, I feel like, like in random storage rooms, like in TV stations in like Brazil at this point. So everyone just go look, find these stories. They did reanimate some of this, like in a little special. So you can check it out, but again, we preserve TV, preserve movies, Kevin. I know you think about this a lot because there was at least one best actress performance and a couple best picture nominees that you could not watch because they no longer exist. Wow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Lost films or films that are just able to be seen at UCLA, just never got public distribution. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's a shame.
SPEAKER_03I know. I think we should preserve everything, even if it's not like great. I think everything deserves to exist. Archival is so important. Mm-hmm. And then, y'all, this was a very cute episode for David Tennant. The actors who were playing some of the roles couldn't be there for the read-through. So his parents got to be in the little table read of the episode. And then Pauline Collins is actually like was all out and about doing press for this episode and talking about all the performance artists who like performed as the werewolf. And she would talked about like her problems reacting to the werewolf because it was just like a green screen thing. And it's fair to say that she was just not amused by some of the effects. I I do love this woman, but you know, I she was she was not amused.
SPEAKER_01This just reminds me of all the wonderful, like great veteran actors who have to be in Marvel movies and are reacting to like a giant tennis ball.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. It's like Glenn Close and Guardians of the Galaxy for 90 seconds.
SPEAKER_01Exactly that. Yep. Yeah, so many.
SPEAKER_03I hope they all bought nice summer houses with that.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03And of course, this is the first use of 35mm filming for live action featuring people in the post-2005 series. I think it's super fun. Once again, shout out to Jamie McCribban, companion Fraser Hines. I think the funny thing that I always tell Paige about is the character Jamie McCribbin and Doctor Who inspired Outlander and Jamie Fraser in that. And it was actually named after the companion, but coincidentally used the last name Frasier, which happened to be Frasier Hines' name. Love that so much.
SPEAKER_01Well, her web connects us all.
SPEAKER_03Her web connects us all. Yes. But y'all, I really enjoyed this episode. Any final thoughts before we skedaddle on out?
SPEAKER_02Just that I think someone has some fan fiction to write. Any listeners, get on it.
SPEAKER_03We need the folklore like stargazerslash Prince Albert, like fanfiction. Somebody get on that on AO3.com. Yes. Right now. Right now.
SPEAKER_04Oh, I was gonna say, I I will say I am surprised like no one has done some type of like fan art thing where they um replaced actresses and they put in Dina Coleman's um Victoria. That's true. That would be good. She was like a companion and then she ends up playing Victoria. But then they have like people who have been on Doctor Who on Victoria, and there was this one scene where I think uh Eve Miles, like she was doing something with the gas thing. I'm like, wait a minute, is this a callback?
SPEAKER_02It had to have been, it had to have been.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it was like it was too close for it not to have been. It felt like it was.
SPEAKER_03I know. Like, I would read more of the behind the scenes on this, but it's kind of sad because at one point during filming, Billy Piper's hair caught on fire, and I'm like, girl, are you okay? Is this set trying to kill you?
SPEAKER_06Oh no, maybe they might be, but yes, uh, this was so fun.
SPEAKER_03Pauline Collins was not the last classic who actor to come back for the new series, but we really appreciated her in this. She was an icon then, an icon now. Rest in peace, girly. Love you.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna see another classic icon in our next episode.
SPEAKER_03Boy, oh boy, are we? Miss Sarah Jane Smith and the late wonderful Anthony Stewarthead. Um what a great episode. We have Gavin and Hamish for that one, everybody. Look out. Thank you both so much for wandering into the TARDIS today. We will fix up your rooms however you want. Kevin, I will put that mini fridge in there very soon after we're done recording here. Let's remind the listeners where they can find you and all your wonderful work. Katrina, where can they find you?
SPEAKER_04I am on Instagram, Katrina T. Parker, Blue Sky Threads. Did I say I think I said Instagram already? But yeah, the Bluebird app, yes. Yeah. The Bluebird app. Um, and you can find Quirky Pop wherever you get other podcasts.
SPEAKER_03All the places they change their names every other week. All the places, yes. Kevin, where can people hear more about you, your wonderful shows, and Pauline Collins?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, perhaps. Well, first of all, thank you so much for kidnapping me, I suppose. Um and just one other thought I had to share from my notes before I go is uh I think Tooth and Claw is a great title for this episode, but if I may pose an alternate title that I came up with that I think would fit even better, I did come up with a a Victorian werewolf in Scotland. I love it.
SPEAKER_03They're renaming it now. Oh, so good.
SPEAKER_01It was right there. Yeah, it was right there. Anyway, yes, thank you so much. You can find me at Kevin Jacobson on Blue Sky and Instagram, Kevin underscore Jacobson elsewhere. Uh yeah, I'm all over the internet. And you can find the podcast and where on rep is with Chelsea occasionally, a lot, actually. Um, uh, where we talk best actress, best picture, and you can find world according to Glenn, where I talk all about Glenn close. So please, please go and listen. We have a good time.
SPEAKER_03Please do. I am partial. Again, go listen to the Albert Knobbs episode because Pauline Collins is there and is yeah, she's kind of mean in that episode. I love it. And then Paradise Road is one of the weirdest movies I've ever watched for you, Kevin. And I did not even appear on that episode. You just told me I would not believe what I saw.
SPEAKER_01You really put in two hours of your life into that movie for some reason. I really did.
SPEAKER_03I don't know why I do things like that. But thank you for listening to Across the Universe. We can be found wherever you listen to podcasts. Make sure you rate review our show. You can find us on Instagram, Blue Sky, Tumblr. Links are in the show notes. You can email us any listener questions or voice memos across the universepod at gmail.com. Subscribe to the Patreon. We have our second doctor, fifth doctor, and 13th doctor tiers. So go check it out. We're doing a lot of fun things, monthly little bonus episodes, and then lots of fun arts and crafts book club. Get in on it. And just our little thing that we normally pre-face with, uh, because this series features some cancel performers. We've included links to Rain's national sexual assault hotline in the US and the UK's 24-7 rape and sexual abuse support line. It's all in the show notes. They're all 24-7. They have live chat texting, phone services. Rain also has WhatsApp. So if you need that resource, it's there for you. Paige, remind the Time Lords where else they can find you.
SPEAKER_02They can find me at Thoughts by Page on Blue Sky. I am Paige Mel Kaiser on Instagram and Hay Smithers on Tumblr when I remember to sign into Tumblr. I am also on the sh my stories are on podcast with our friends Chelsea, Jesse, and Owen talking about reality TV and soaps and good TV overall. I also have a soap stack you can subscribe to called Girlhood in Low Resolution, where I talk about growing up as a girl on the internet in the 2000s.
SPEAKER_03And your post about like making your bedroom your own. I feel like as queer people and queer adults, I'm doing that now, just hanging up all my treasures. You wrote an inspired me page. That's what I'm here for. Exactly. And I'm Chell725 on the Blue Sky, serialized letterbox, Chell Cycles on Instagram. If you can find my Tumblr, you're stronger than a werewolf. You can listen to me and my fellow agent and future companion Gavin on the Q Division, a James Bond movie marathon podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm also on Shh, my stories are on with Paige. It's super fun. We're about to drop a big brother episode. And I'm a frequent guest on the Female Gaze The Film Club, where I've recently talked about the Jody Whitaker film Adult Life Skills. And I also appear on and a rewatch occasionally talking about Karen Gillen's selfie. So be sure to join us on our next adventure across space and time as we revisit School of Reunion with returning companion Gavin and new companion Hamish. Until then, we'll see you in the time vortex.