Across the Whoniverse: A Doctor Who Marathon Podcast
Join your Friendly Neighborhood Time Lord Chels & Muppet of a Time Lord Paige on their Tardis adventures as they marathon Doctor Who.
Across the Whoniverse: A Doctor Who Marathon Podcast
S02E03 "School Reunion" w/ Gavin Mevius & Hamish Steele
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Time Lords! This week we're joined by our very own SpyMaster companion Gavin Mevius and new companion, comic creator and writer Hamish Steele as we travel back to 2007 to fight some alien bats and reunite with an old friend.
Working on a tip from Mickey, the Doctor and Rose are undercover investigating strange disappearances and alien activity at a comprehensive school. But they're not the only ones on the case, as Classic Who companion Sarah Jane Smith makes her iconic return to the TV Whoniverse and the Doctor must reckon with his past actions.
Our Tardis team breaks down the return of the legendary Elisabeth Sladen and how companions are forced to find new life after the Tardis. Frequent listener Novel asks us about the off-kilter rivalry between Sarah Jane and Rose and how companion dynamics have changed since series 2. Hamish and Gavin wax poetically about the late Anthony Head's delicious villainous turn. Plus, Gavin entices Chels with a show starring Yaz's mom and we pick which classic companions we'd like to see as the center of an episode.
Join us as we travel Across the Whoniverse!
Email us with questions or comments at AcrossTheWhoniversePod@gmail.com
Chels talking Adult Life Skills on Female Gaze: The Film Club
Paige talking Jennifer's Body on Fear Coded
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Welcome to Across the Universe, a Doctor Who Marathon podcast. I'm your friendly neighborhood Time Lord Chelsea and I'm your Muppet of a Time Lord Page. And y'all, these next two episodes were our most requested episodes by all past, present, future companions, but I play favorites and as God's favorite, Goddess Cling closest favorite. I will tell these people, no pressure today, but you're the chosen ones. You have to do these justice. So let's just introduce our companions first. We have a returning girly. He's finally like let himself out of his room. He's been redecorating, he's been expanding. Gavin, please let us know all the beautiful things you've done in your room.
SPEAKER_00Oh god. I mean, I did actually hang up new shelves recently, uh, just two new shelves. And I think I'm gonna put the astonishing X-Men on one, and I haven't decided what the other is. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03Please share all your toys. We are pro toys in this household. And y'all, we have a brand new companion. We've accidentally kidnapped them. We might eventually drop them off in the wrong location, but it's okay. Usually when we kidnap, we kidnap forever. Welcome to the show, Hamish Steel.
SPEAKER_02Hello. Maybe your first guest that has been to Croydon and um potentially can't speak for. I know you had um, was it the Local Goblin? Yes, Local Goblin.
SPEAKER_03So I am not your first British companion, but I may be your first who uh grew up with the show and yes, because local goblin is famously younger than the reboot of this show. I have never felt more ancient in my life. You know what? Children are the future, and I think our future is bright as long as Local Goblin's leading everything.
SPEAKER_00I suddenly turn into that shot of uh David Tennet from the master final when he's like an old little baby thing. Weird.
SPEAKER_03David Tennet, like eight bajillion years old, just dusty in a wheelchair. That is me. Anytime I am around 20-year-olds. Yeah. I love it though.
SPEAKER_02I'm very, very happy to be here. This is such a good show. And really appeared in my life when a couple of my Doctor Who shows and and YouTube channels and things I catch up on were sort of fading away, I think. And this sort of swooped in and saved me.
SPEAKER_03We are so happy to save people. We're just here for a silly billy time. And y'all, to continue this silly billy time, I'm very excited. Here's our little icebreaker question because this episode sees the return of Sarah Jane Smith, a hot girl, a bad bitch. I'm gonna say it every single time. This feel the rain on your skin. We're back, babes. But she is our first classic Who companion to return for the reboot. Which other classic companion would you like to see return to the show in a proper storyline? And I did list in my beautiful notes that are insane, like an insane peek into my mind. Nobody needs to look at that. But we've had Tegan back, we've had Ace, we've had Mel, we had little cameos from like Joe, Susan Foreman, which they need to finish and figure out. I know they left it a mess, but I want that to happen. And then, of course, Ann Chesterton returned in the Power of the Doctor finale, just for a little little line. Can't believe they got him right before is crazy. There are so many great classic companions. So you can just list as many as you want.
SPEAKER_02Oh, wonderful. Because, you know, I'm probably gonna keep wanting that Susan stuff to be resolved till the end of time. At the same time, when Dot 2 comes back, I'm very pro, like clean slate, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Whatever. I don't want them to spend the first episode tying up Lucen's. I think that'd be terrible. But, you know, I just feel bad for Caroline Ford getting that kind of tease, and that's maybe the saddest part, I think, of the current situation.
SPEAKER_03Especially since she wants to come back so bad. She's been petitioning since the reboot started. Even though I'm with you, I kind of want them to ninth doctor just jump back into the TARDIS adventures and then eventually tie up the loose ends along the way. Very vaguely tie up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, obviously, we'll talk about it in this episode, but I think one of the reasons this episode does it so well is that it's not really about the past, it's really about Rose and like kind of teeing up the audience for maybe her departure, who knows? Um, I like Ace was always my favorite growing up. I know she came back, but it was quite a busy episode, and I feel like I'd love a kind of one-on-one adventure with her again. And then my two other rogue picks one is Jamie, the second doctor's companion.
SPEAKER_03Yes, Frazier Hines is still around. I got to see him at a convention last year and Carol Ann Ford. He's a delightful little guy, he's so cute.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I feel like him with like a big beard in the Highlands, not knowing like why he is has got all these like strange stories that he can tell because he kind of lost his memory, which is like one of three ways a companion can leave. Yeah, um, you know, he like I don't know, him like defending his little settlement from some Cybermen and kilts or something, I think would be really fun. And then my other kind of like going the opposite direction is Romana with like a new actor. And because I really like that relationship of kind of doctor, it's it's funny, it's kind of like teacher and student, but the student is way smarter and like actually finished her courses at the academy. And I think even bringing her back with like you know, maybe a male actor or a non-binary actor or like doing a kind of twist in the sort of slightly different direction that we've done with like the master and the doctor and stuff, I think could be quite fun. Um and I'd and also because Big Finish got um Drusilla from uh Buffy to play her for a bit. Oh, that's amazing. Which I thought was great casting, and I just feel like sometimes I see quirky actors who like feel kind of like the doctor, but I think Pai probably shouldn't be like the lead actor of the show. So I just think she'd be a fun character to bring back just for that like dynamic again.
SPEAKER_03I love this, Paige. On our Patreon, we are going to have to do some Jamie episodes because you're an Outlander girly, and Jamie, like Fraser Hines, directly inspired Outlander.
SPEAKER_04I love that.
SPEAKER_03Yes, we need to explore.
SPEAKER_02And they are just just full on boyfriends as well. Like they spend the whole era clinging to each other and like yeah, the doctor and Jamie are boyfriends.
SPEAKER_03It's canon, don't tell Fraser. Gavin. Um no pressure.
SPEAKER_00I'm cheating. Yeah. I'm cheating a little bit, actually, because my the very first person that popped into my brain, um, and it's partially because, you know, like I said, I I grew up with Doctor Who PBS repeats, but also like the thing that really turned me on to like a modern Doctor Who was the TV movie. And so I'd love if Daf Daphne Ashbrook came back as Grace Holloway, even if it was just like a one-off thing. I met her at a convention years ago. She's as sweet as can be, and like the fact that she's still like promoting Doctor Who stuff, so like she's still in it.
SPEAKER_03Um I think she's gonna be at a convention near you this month.
SPEAKER_00Is she is she really? That's awesome, along with the fifth doctor. So I'm just saying, like she's genuinely so sweet too. Like, just what a what an amazing, lovely person, and still looks great, and uh also like you know, really open the floodgates for companions falling in love with the doctor. I think like in a more overt way.
SPEAKER_03Listen, I am pro-kissing, and also she's beautiful. I have a big gay crush on her, so I support this. Bring back all the beautiful companions, as long as the actors are still good people.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. A good, a good requirement. Um, and then the other one is Joe Grant, who is technically, as you mentioned, sort of come back before. But the what I think of her the most in terms of coming back is she did two episodes of the Sarah Jane adventures um in the fourth season, which was uh Russell T. Davies getting his chance to write uh Matt Smith's Doctor. And actually, I think doing a better job there with how the doctor explains what happens when he when a companion leaves him or when he leaves a companion than he gives David Tennant in this episode. Um, and there's something I I absolutely love Elizabeth Sladen, uh, but there's something about Elizabeth Sladen and Joe Grant together that that episode just makes me cry. Um, seeing them together. It's so lovely. So, and I know that was 16 years ago at this point, and so Joe Grant herself um is is no spring chicken, uh, but I would you I would love to see Katherine Ann Manning.
SPEAKER_03She is still sharp as a tack, because like you're naming all these people that were at Chicago TARDIS last year, and I am just like, these people are so funny, let them go, let them rip.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, she's very funny and sweet.
SPEAKER_02I always try and attend something in the UK called Galafrey Cabaret, which is a kind of all singing, all dancing, drag cabaret Doctor Who show. And Katie Manning, Joe Grant, is almost always there, just in the crowd waving things, and she usually comes up and like does is like the judge of a costume contest and stuff. Um, so yeah, I just love that she's the life of the party for sure. And you mentioned Daphne Ashbrook. I think it's just so cool how many people who are in Doctor Who, even for just like one episode, like Daphne. And it still just like colours their whole life in a positive way, usually, and they are always happy to even people like Chris Backleston, who maybe had a bad time, he like loves meeting Doctor Who fans and talking about it, and he like I think that's something quite magical. For sure.
SPEAKER_00I was I was watching this episode last night, and I have a friend from out of town staying with me, my friend Kevin. And he was like, he's like, is there anything comparable to Doctor Who in America? And I was like, kind of Star Trek, but also not quite because it is different ships and different people and whatnot, and Doctor Who is ostensibly about one person, and uh, but that's I think that you know, if you're creating it an analogous situation, I think that's a lot of actors on Star Trek too. I find a lot of actors don't really have too much negative things to say about Star Trek, and they're always willing to show up for conventions and whatnot. And I think they handle their fandoms in a very similar way, which is which is really nice. And unfortunately, there is a large contingent of toxic Star Trek fans now, uh, thanks internet.
SPEAKER_03But the they can hang out with the toxic Doctor Who fans who are not at this podcast because we even say, Hey, Mish, you offered to be on the episode Everybody Hates, and we have said we'll go into it with an open heart and mind. I feel like people are just a little too mean and precious and have too many of their own headcanons, which is fine, but don't be mean about it. Like, let everybody have a nice time, including Star Trek fans, have a nice time. I will say, Gavin, I should have sent you the clip of Michelle Heard at Comic-Con this past month, and she's talking about Michelle Nichols and it's so beautiful. And that does remind me of like this in Doctor Who, where it's like seeing how these people influence the future. And it's very different that the comparison because she's talking about seeing a black woman on TV in a role of power, and but it is still so great. So spiritually, I think these like the vibe of Star Trek and Doctor Who are the same.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I've I've heard Michelle Heard talk about uh Michelle Nichols before, I think on a podcast previously, and she speaks so beautifully about her and like the inspiration that yeah, it's very, very it's I love it. You know, that sort of that's the the fun thing about being a nerd and being a fan of something.
SPEAKER_03And I like that we're all reporting from different TARDIS's TARDI. But y'all, let's just dive into this delightful episode that everyone wanted to be on. Um, so we're at series two, episode three, school reunion, written by James Hawes, directed by Toby Whithouse. This originally aired on the 29th of April, 2006. It is set in London, 2007, though, because remember, the ninth doctor did a whoopsie and the timeline's a year ahead. But this features the 10th Doctor, Rose Tyler, Mickey Smith, Mr. Finch slash Lasser, Lasar. I don't know how to pronounce names, but and we just have to take a moment. He's played by the recently departed Anthony Head. Don't make me cry. I love this man so much.
SPEAKER_00Uh, he's a delight. A dad for our generation. He really is.
SPEAKER_04He really was, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and everything I've heard about him and his personal life has been like very supportive of people like us, but also just such a nice guy.
SPEAKER_03Um, around this time he was also in the fabulous gay happy ending movie Imagine Me and You, which is deep, deeply special in my heart. And he got to be a happy gay dad, and I'm like, yes, thank you. And then we also get the return of K9, and then y'all, I'm just gonna keep crying because so many icons are gone. The late great legend Sarah Jane Smith, Elizabeth Slayton, rest in peace.
SPEAKER_04She's so wonderful in this.
SPEAKER_00The I the yeah, when she passed, that was like a genuinely really sad day. And I think it's because she kept a lot of it to herself, so then it felt extra like, oh, like I wish, you know.
SPEAKER_03Because she was like still working on the show. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I like and I liked, I'm aware that Sarah Jane Smith Adventures was for 11 to 15 year olds, but I actually really liked it. So yeah, I was I was like, oh no.
SPEAKER_02Did half of her final season, um, and they did air it, but I remember on on children's BBC, C BBC, they added a kind of Are You Doing Okay special when she died, which was like the cast sort of reacting to it and kind of um talking to the chill child audiences about sort of death and stuff in in like a very sad way. And people would ring up and ask if like it was just very sweet, and I really felt for that cast as well. And I think there was like conversations about continuing the show with Joe Grant or or just the kid cast, but it just felt right to kind of leave it as it was, and like in the universe, she kind of gets to still be alive for you know the Seables.
SPEAKER_00She she's the Paul Walker of Doctor Who, basically.
SPEAKER_03Beautiful. But then, y'all, before we dive into this episode, we just have to acknowledge that yes, this does feature horrible man Noel Clark. So any discussion about him is strictly about the character Mickey Smith, and we're including links to Rain's national sexual assault hotline in the US and the UK's 24-hour rape and sexual abuse support line in the show notes. They're both 24-7. They have live chatting, texting, phone services. And Rain is also available in WhatsApp. So everyone check that out if you need it. But y'all, this episode, like, I just remember like seeing in the Christmas invasion post like season long preview, you see her face, Sarah Janes, and I'm just like, when's this episode coming? Let's go. I was so excited to get to it, and because I am my neurodiversity is like, nope, I don't want to be spoiled, I just want to go into it not knowing anything. So just seeing that it was episode three and so early into everything as I'm watching my DVDs, I'm like, Yes. What was y'all's reaction to this episode? Just some brief overall impressions.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, I I really remember it vividly, and I also remember the announcement of the episode because I didn't say super upfront, but yeah, I was um I hadn't watched all of Classico or anything, but I was there episode one of season one of the reboot, knowing fully what Dot Who was. I'd been like reading all the previews, watching all the classics that I could get my hands on, and between season one and two, I really like it became a special interest, and I watched as much as I could. So I was like super aware of Sarah Jane and K9 uh by the time the episode came along. Um and like I said at the start, like I was so impressed by it being especially how I think this episode might be done now or in other franchises, how kind of um it's not about nostalgia necessarily or bringing someone back. And I know Elizabeth Slayden was very like reluctant to come back initially because she thought it would just be a cameo or just or something like that. Um and then finding out that she really matters to the story, and something I really am I love about uh Rose's time in the show is that every single episode is actually about her relationship with the doctor, no matter what happens. Um and so I really like this episode as like a way to talk about companions and what happens to them. But also like it's easy to forget now, but I remember being on the forums during this time, and there was a massive debate about whether this reboot was like canon to classical.
SPEAKER_03I love people debating canon because the show will tell you exactly what's going on, but they always think it's a puzzle box.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but like it they they kind of would were talking about the ninth doctor as just like, well, technically he's the ninth actor, but and the tenth doctor's the tenth actor, but it was still kind of vague to a lot of people whether this was the same show or not, and this kind of not only her coming back, but like all the references to previous episodes and stuff was really quite an overt confirmation that this is still Doctor Who, whether you like it or not. And so I loved it. I I don't know why, I don't know if it like really ranks in my like top episodes, but it's so watchable, and I think I rewatched it like a lot when it came out. Um yeah that's me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I have to sort of piggyback over uh specifically what you just said, Hamish, too. About I don't think the plot of this episode, like the actual plot, the like alien plot, is anything remarkable. Um, which is sort sort of unfortunate because we do get Anthony Storehead, but they they do give him some delicious moments in it, and that that's a lot of fun. Uh, but yeah, the I think the the the stuff that makes this episode so rewatchable and and so much fun to revisit is the Elizabeth Slayton, is the Sarah Jane Smith stuff. Um, because she's just I mean, she is she's made for the camera, like truly. The but she does one of my favorite things in the entire episode, which is, and it must be difficult, but the when she's first introduced to to David Tennet, um when he's showing her around, she like looks at David Tennet and immediately looks away. Like this is somebody that like, oh, you're just somebody I'm meeting, like you're not really making an impression or whatever. It's just a guy. And I yeah, exactly. And I love that character choice because it's just like, yeah, he is just a this is just a person she she doesn't know he's the doctor. And I love that it's not like an instant recognition. Um, I remember so as as we're charting the course of me watching the show too, um, that this was my senior year in college, and I was still pirating the show because it was still like sort of inconsistent in America. Yeah. And um, I remember this episode, I remember the announcement of her happening uh to be on the show, but I I like what they did, but they're very smart to put her episode towards the beginning of the series, but also smart about when they introduce her in the episode. I like that there is so much plot that happens in this episode before they bring in Sarah Jane Smith. Uh, it's nice because it makes it you as an audience member realize like this is a special thing that's happening, but also this is an episode of this show, and it does fit in the context of everything that you've seen before in this specific reboot. Um, Sarah Jane Smith was, like I said, I grew up watching, but Peter Davidson was my first doctor, so I I'd only seen some of her her stuff uh sporadically over the years. So I really didn't get into Sarah Jane Smith until after this episode aired. And I was and and I realized like how special she was and how you know beautiful she was. But I I'd seen some of the serials before of her, but never never in a consistent sort of so I actually had to go back after this had aired uh more into the Tom Baker era and more into the previous era before that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, hey Mish. Over here it aired on our one singular public television channel that was like across the nation, but it would air very randomly, mostly like fourth, fifth, a little bit of third doctor in there, and just so random because this was all like cooking TV shows and then like Barney and Sesame Street.
SPEAKER_00Yep, 100%. Yeah, there'd be a lot of Julia Childs, a lot of Barney, and uh and this like occasionally on weekends, and not always at the Same time, and then sometimes you'd run into an American Masters and you'd be like, I don't want to watch this play, I want to see some Doctor Who.
SPEAKER_03Paige, what's your experience with this episode? Because as we know, this was much like the PBS times of before, this was just randomly sci-fi, occasionally BBC America, random cable channels, no order, edited down for time.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Yeah, I was gonna say, this was actually one of the first Doctor Who episodes I remember watching. I remember that very vividly. Not as it aired, but it was as a rerun on BBC America. As I mentioned, every I feel like I'm talking about BBC America all the time on the show. They should sponsor us at the time. All the time. They should sponsor us.
SPEAKER_03It makes sense that this would be one of your first ones because I imagine you saw Anthony Stewart head and your neck just like broke as you like turned it on.
SPEAKER_04Because I at that point already loved Buffy. I was deep into Merlin. I loved that TV show. So very into him. Um this because it was one of the first ones I watched, it feels very classic Who to me. Not because of the story being amazing, as we talked about, but just having those elements that I think of with Doctor Who as far as Monster of the Week and having the team TARDIS all together and having like returning characters that you maybe don't know about, but you're like, oh but they're very important to the lore of the show. And I sense that from this. And I did really love Sarah Jane Smith, and I did watch a little bit of the Sarah Jane Smith adventures after this when it was, of course, on BBC America.
SPEAKER_03But I love that. So yes, as most people know, I started with series three because that was the DVD I first found at the used DVD store. But I eventually got back to season two, had to go back. And the moment I saw Sarah Jane Smith, who I'd like vaguely seen on PBS as a child, I was like, wait, is this awakening something in me? Answer, yes. But then I was always like, this episode reminds me so much of the like Buffy Smallville monster of the week. Maybe it's because Anthony had us there. Maybe it's because it was set in a school and it reminds me of that. But I'm just like, oh, simpler times because this is such an easy episode to watch. There's like a very set monster, and it doesn't have to do with the overall plot so much as like these days in a 10-episode series or an eight-episode Disney. This episode, I feel like they would probably just get rid of it because of the plot. But I think it's important character work, like everyone has said, for Rose and realizing, like, oh, I'm not the first companion, I'm probably not gonna be the last. And I really like that it is setting up Billy Piper's departure and that they were able to thread that throughout the season and just show, hey, there is life after the TARDIS, and you do have to move on.
SPEAKER_02I also like though that because I was reading I don't want to step on any factoid stuff. Oh, go for it. Just factoid away. Like in an early draft, she Sarah, uh Sarah Jane was meant to be like a recovering alcoholic, and like her life was actually really terrible. And that seems like a very like trend these days. I like that while she's alone and you know, she's still like going for it. She's like going out on her own investigations. She feels both like she's the same character, but she hasn't been stuck in time, but also she isn't like everything hasn't gone terrible in her life. Like, I think she plays the very end of the episode where she's like, Oh, there's never anyone that could really match up to that quite well because it doesn't sound too sad. She's got a life. It's just yes, um, I don't know. I think they play it really well, the the level of it. Because again, if her life was terrible, then you'd be really sad, even more sad for like Rose and everything.
SPEAKER_03And I really like what you said right there because one thing me and some other friends talk about a lot is we actively choose to be single, and if we were to let somebody in our life, they would have to be able to like match or enrich our life. We don't want to have to like adjust ourselves or bring ourselves down for somebody else. And I see that in what you said about Sarah Jane. It's like, nope, she's still hypercompetent, has a fulfilling life and career. She's not gonna just like go off and be an alcoholic or be sad that a man left her. She's just gonna keep doing her thing. She's gonna be a little sad that all of these opportunities and adventures are gone because he showed her the universe. But it's like, no, if I'm gonna have somebody, they have to be just as great and add something to my life to make it worth like sharing.
SPEAKER_04And that is really great for Rose to see that there is life after the TARDIS because she has to realize that she's not gonna be traveling with him forever, and that part of her life is not going to continue forever. So that's nice for her to see that like there is stuff to do afterward.
SPEAKER_00And it feels really in character for Sarah Jane Smith too, from what I know of her, too, is she's always somebody who is very smart and very headstrong and very curious. And I like that that is that continuation of that, too. That it's like, okay, you know, this part of my life was over, fine, but like I'm still here, I have to move on, I have to, you know, and so yeah, I think I think it does a really good job of threading the needle of it not being sad. I had heard that Elizabeth Sladen herself asked for those elements to be removed from the script.
SPEAKER_03I love that again. Hot girl, bad bitch. She doesn't need no man, she knows her character, she does.
SPEAKER_02She'd been doing some big finish before this, so it's not like she hadn't played the character in ages, and I think she had a lot of protection for the character. Um, which is again why she didn't want to just do a cameo. Because she I think she understood that if Sarah Jane was gonna walk into the doctor's life again, he wouldn't just be like, hey, bye.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yes, it reminds me of like soap operas. I think of like Deidre Hall, my girl from Days of Our Lives, as having a moment because this year is her 50th year on the show. And she has talked about in interviews, she reminds the writers of what Marlena did like 30, 40 years ago because she was there and lived it. And these people are only like 40 to 50, 60 years old. It's like, no, I know this character, this is what her history is, and I feel like it's the same with all these classic Who characters. It's like, nope, Elizabeth Slade knew that character better than the writers, and it's like, she wouldn't do that. No.
SPEAKER_02And I think from what I've seen of Billy Piper at conventions, like she now has that as well. It's like a fun passing of the torch that Billy is to so many kids, like their Sarah Jane.
SPEAKER_00And that's so sweet.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure she at Big Finish, because they're currently doing like night's Doctor and Rose stuff, she would be really good.
SPEAKER_03Really good too. I really like her.
SPEAKER_02She's really like, really got herself back into like season one Rose, who's really flawed, and I love how she's flawed, and I think she's often, you know, defending her keeping her character like that.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, because she knows her character was 19.
SPEAKER_04That makes me wonder if she had any conversations with the big finish writers about the current show they're doing. Maybe I wonder.
SPEAKER_00Can I add just one more thing too? Because you brought up Buffy Chell's. There's a moment, and I'm sure it's scripted exactly this way, but there's a thing called Buffy Speak, which is something that Buffy really popularized, which is the, you know, sometimes it's verbing a noun or nounning a verb, or just like the sort of patter. And there's a very strong moment of that in this episode where Anthony Sturthead says, ignore the shooty dog thing. And it's and it's very buffy, and I think it's specifically because it's coming from him. I'm sure he like read it in a very specific buffy patter way, and I love it. It feels like a just a nice throwaway little tribute to the to the type of writing Buffy does it.
SPEAKER_03And like Russell has been so transparent that his version of this reboot is directly inspired by Buffy, like picked up that template and ran with it, which it's a good template. Sometimes bad people can write like good things. Who knew?
SPEAKER_00Who knew?
SPEAKER_02Anthony Head is so good in this episode, and I think it's because he knows exactly the kind of show he's in, and it's like his chance to be a monster of the week. So he's like, Yeah, I'm doing my best, like you know, one episode vampire demon guy. Like, I think sometimes guest stars, well, most of the guest stars in Doctor Who come from like EastEnders and stuff, so it's like Which I love, except for one lady who we're gonna cuss out at the end of this series. I'm I'm glad you will. But um yeah, I feel like he could just walk onto set and be like, I know what I'm doing. I know what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Who knew? Doctor Who casting, pretty good. But y'all, I am gonna have fun with these TARDIS wiki synopsis. I copy and paste this directly because I want to show you all the errors, and then I picked up the serialized synopsis because I think it's slightly better. So, Defree Vale High School is haunted by strange bat-like creatures at night. Mikey Smith calls in the Doctor and Rose to help investigate, but there's already another another person undercover investigating the strange occurrences at the school, and it's someone the doctor knows and remembers quite dearly, Sarah Jane Smith. The fact that these pages split from the fandom site and then are still filled, like so many errors. It's like gang. Edit.
SPEAKER_00Good old Mickey Smith.
SPEAKER_03But then serialized. I think this one gives a better, like small preview. There are strange going-ons at a comprehensive school, UFOs, overintelligent children, and odd-tasting school dinners. This attracts the attention of the Tenth Doctor, Rose, and Mickey Smith, as well as a couple old friends. I like that one. That one leaves me intrigued. Serialized gold star.
SPEAKER_02I like it, but if I was just looking at these synopsis, I might not even remember that's this episode. Because I'm like UFOs.
SPEAKER_03Right. The fact that they say UFOs so much and we don't even see one, I'm like, come on, girls. Yes. Where are they?
SPEAKER_02This was a budget episode for sure.
SPEAKER_03I'm like, paint a pancake silver and just like take a straw, fly it through a camera. It's fine.
SPEAKER_00Hamish, to add to that, when I found out they used two different schools, I was like, wow, big spenders, two different locations.
SPEAKER_02We had to blow up one of them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Blow up the ugly one, please.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But y'all, I will say before we really get into the plot, Russell's casual fat phobia right at the beginning in the cold open, just stops me in my tracks every time, calling one child thin, and then shortly after, implying that a perfectly normal looking child is overweight. I am just like, electric chair. Stop that shit.
SPEAKER_04Something about him, he loves to terrorize fat people.
SPEAKER_00He fucking does it to Rose later in the episode. They Mickey Smith tells her to lay off the chips. Crazy. Like, what are we why? What are we doing here?
SPEAKER_02I was thinking that this must have been, I don't know how much this like permeated outside of the UK, but there was this like huge sort of reform of school lunches over here. Yes. Yeah. And it was all done by the chef called Jamie Oliver. And the whole thing was about like, we're gonna stop serving like chips and uh turkey twizzlers was like the big turkey. That was also like a glee episode about like tater tots, which I think is maybe similar time. But anyway, yeah, yeah. So I feel like there's something in the air here, but like our TV at the time was filled with just like fat shaming shows and oh same.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like I don't get it.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah. We we had e I mean we had some crazy ones, but I uh I I don't even want to talk about the Swan, but uh was a literal show about giving yeah. But uh I I just as a personal anecdote, so I was in like I said, I was in college at this time, so this is roughly like 2001, 2000. Oh no, no, I wasn't in college yet for 2001, so 2004, 2005. And uh early late 90s, early 2000s in the US Hamish, we had this thing called Olestra and Olin, which they which was the cooking oil that they started cooking fries and and and other fried things in, and it was supposed to be like it like eliminated trans fats and it like was it was healthier for people and was not fat ink, but then they found out that it was leading to like massive uh diarrhea issues and and stomach aches. Uh and so it was starting to be phased out. And I remember when I was a junior or senior in college, they found out that my my college, which I will not name because I don't want to slander them, was still using it because that the many students were still having those stomach issues and whatnot.
SPEAKER_03And so the I So you're telling me your college got the bargain basement sale on this frying oil.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. That's what what happens when you go to a state school, and uh that's uh when I think of the fact that the there's an evil oil in this episode, I'm like, yeah, I I know that well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03People are so weird about other people's bodies, and maybe we don't comment on other people's bodies. Maybe we don't.
SPEAKER_00Crazy. I know what a concept is.
SPEAKER_03I know. But y'all, let's just dive right into this episode because again, Anthony Stewart had amazing villain. We looked he missed out on the huge career of that. We open on Headmaster Finch, played by this late great icon, walking to his office when he notices a student right outside. She has a headache and can't go home because she lives in a children's home. And some of his lines to her really took me out because he's like, No parents, no one to miss you. I see why they sent you. It's so obvious. Truly, villain was tattooed on his head.
SPEAKER_04He's like, No parents.
SPEAKER_03You poor child, poor thin child. Come inside. It's nearly time for lunch. And he takes her into his office. Next thing you know, it's like little shadows of like bat wing flapping through the glass and the girl just screaming. Which, honestly, that what a way to open an episode. I think that's a great scary berry moment.
SPEAKER_02So many children get eaten in this episode.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I was gonna say, it's so extreme.
SPEAKER_00It's and like it's very important to begin your episode with a child's death.
SPEAKER_02And also, it's like, I know children's homes, are they just okay with kids never coming home? And they say at one point it's like it's it's not like all the stuff. They say at one point, but like, oh, it's the mostly the maths department that's had the replacements, and there's like other teachers because they the bats know that David 10 and Rose aren't one of them. Um so it is weird that none of the other teachers are like, why do all my students disappear?
SPEAKER_04They just don't notice.
SPEAKER_03They just don't notice. I'm like, I feel like a children's home would still let a child come home sick from school. I feel like we're just gonna like glaze right over that plot hole.
SPEAKER_00Uh Lucy didn't return home. I guess we lost another one.
SPEAKER_03She fell in a pothole. Then we're just gonna cut to a kid running to his physics class. This is Kenny, the allegedly overweight kid. And I'm like, kid, you're perfect. No notes. Do not listen to these fucking adults. And you know what? His class, though, it's taught by the doctor. And then we smash to credits because those credits, they really energize me, y'all. And then after our credits, our our doctor teacher John Smith repeatedly says physics four billion times, and he starts asking increasingly difficult and beyond this world physics questions, but only the student Milo can answer them. And this kid is answering without a second thought. This is beyond a beautiful mind, and the doctor is immediately suspicious. Y'all, this child doing math, I'm like, baby, you're too pretty for that.
SPEAKER_04I know this is before obviously Catherine Tate comes on the show, but this scene of him being the teacher reminded me of the Catherine Tate show. Oh, yeah, the little that's funny.
SPEAKER_02Also, not the last time he becomes a teacher in undercover as John Smith in this regeneration. So it's like nickel.
SPEAKER_00That was Russell T. Davies was saying like his initial thought for this episode is because as a child he dreamed of like go showing up to school and the and the substitute teacher being the doctor and getting into adventures with him. So like that that tracks.
SPEAKER_03That's pretty sweet. This does remind me, um, it is like a short story, like an ace adventure where her substitute teacher is the 13th doctor, and the 13th doctor accidentally teaches her how to make bombs, but it's the ones that Ace had taught her how to make.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's really fun. Everyone, go check it out. But y'all, Rose is not having a good time undercover because she's a lunch lady and she's complaining to the doctor about it, but he reminds her that her boyfriend alerted them to something weird happening at this school. And Rose just keeps stealing his chips as he comments, they're a little different, but Rose is like, they're gorgeous. And I am Rose. I would annihilate those chips. Yes. Like, put those in front of me. I'm going to be a genius. And then this like head lunch lady just comes up to Rose as she attempts to sit down and she just scolds her, be like, no, no sitting on your shift, girl, get back to work. And she's like, uh, I was talking to this teacher. He doesn't like the chips. And the lunch lady replies, the menu has been specifically designed by the headmaster to improve concentration and performance. And you know what? Maybe I really do need these chips because my concentration, gone. Never had it.
SPEAKER_02I just think it's funny that at multiple times in this episode, I feel like the Krillatanes kind of forget that they're not actually working at the school because she's like, Rose, get back to work and feed these kids, which I kind of get. But then later on, Mr. Finch seems like genuinely excited that the magazine is doing a profile on him, which is like probably the worst thing you'd want if you were an evil alien undercover. But he's like, Oh, we're actually doing really great. They all seem like genuinely thrilled that they're running the school well.
SPEAKER_00It's I also think that there's a weird thing about the Krillitades running the school because later in the episode, Rose is like, yeah, they fired and replaced all of the cooking staff. Why did they ever hire Rose then? Like, if they were just gonna replace them with all of their people, wouldn't they be like, and one random human just for fun?
SPEAKER_04They get into their role play a little too much. They're having fun.
SPEAKER_00They're having fun. Um, the uh I do like specifically this is a very US-UK sort of thing. So uh Hamish, we have lunch ladies and and they're school lunch, and I love that they keep referring to this as school dinner, and she actually says, I'm a dinner lady, and I associate dinner lady with Victoria Wood, which I I'm sure you so shortly after me and my boyfriend started dating, this is a decade ago at this point, was when Victoria Wood passed away, and we watched all of Dinner Ladies because it was not a thing over here, and so we had to like find it. And that show is so good. So if I if I could shout out something to your audience, Chels and Paige like watch Dinner Ladies, it's so nice and so sweet. It's a sitcom about women working in a cafeteria, it's very good.
SPEAKER_02Yazza's mom is one of the uh I love them.
SPEAKER_03Yazza's mom, first off, Big Crush. Everyone go watch their great British bake off.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh, a hot um British, it's 16 episodes, and that's two series worth.
SPEAKER_03That's all. So you're saying that's my Monday afternoon.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's wonderful.
SPEAKER_02It's really cute.
SPEAKER_03Beautiful.
SPEAKER_02There's a few UK school things which I'm curious about if if you'll have questions about in this for sure.
SPEAKER_03I feel like I should have just written down all my questions, but then I just roll with it and I'm just like, y'all are different over there. It's probably just like better. It's probably a slightly better education. We're arguing about Bible verses here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but we get eaten by bats quite a lot. So yeah, but that's like that's like every other year, right? That's not that's not a yearly thing. Can't be.
SPEAKER_03As Rose gets back to work, Mr. Wagner, another teacher, tells a student, Melissa, that Milo, the students from the physics class, has failed him, so she's being moved to the top class. He asks another student, Kenny, why he isn't eating the chips, and he says he's not allowed to, with the implication that he's on a diet before this teacher grabs another student, Luke. We see Mr. Finch watching above the cafeteria, and I like the little imagery of he's still lording over them, like very bat-like, has to be up top. But again, this show telling us that a perfectly average kid is overweight is fucked up. Russell, work on your fat phobia because it still exists today, and maybe just some overall body image issues. Get into some therapy. Let him eat the chips. Let him have a chip, he's fine.
SPEAKER_02Well, I had a question about Milo failing him. I have questions about him. Because what does that mean? And so I looked it up, and I think there's a deleted scene where Milo. Gets eaten. Yeah. They were like, there's too many kids being eaten this early on. It's like two kids have been eaten and Sarah Jane hasn't even shown up. But then he has just written out, even though he's super smart. So it's like, I don't know what happens. I think he might have like walked in on one of the bat teachers or something. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Probably. And then we're like, ah, it's a little repetitive with a future scene.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But then, y'all, we cut to this kitchen staff decked out, and all the PPE, like protective gloves, masks, it just looks like the like humans in ET going to collect an alien. And all they're doing is moving a large barrel that we're meant to think is like the grease for the fries. And one of them says, don't spill a drop. And Rose is kind of watching them, not helping, which is good for you, girl. If you're being paid by the hour, you should not have to do all of this stuff. That's too much work. And she gets a call from Mickey as she observes them moving the barrel. And because Mickey is a hacker, he informs her that there's been massive UFO activity, but an organization called Torchwood is blocking his investigations. Wonder what that could be. Hmm. Rose tells him the kitchen staff were all replaced three months ago out of the blue when the barrel slips and spills on one of the kitchen workers. And the worker, it sounds like she's getting sizzled. And Rose attempts to call an ambulance, but a stop by that mean head kitchen lady, and it's like, she's doing just fine. But then Rose hears the lady screaming again and sees a bunch of smoke come from like the little room off to the side. But she lets it go for now and looks at the barrel, dripping a golden greasy substance.
SPEAKER_00To to steal a phrase from you, Chels, the the bit where she's like, she's fine, and then you hear the scream cover the room, and she's like, She does that is Looney Tunes. Holy Looney Tunes. Like it really is. And I love it. I'm here for it.
SPEAKER_03I'm so pro Looney Tunes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, very buffy as well.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yeah. Also, once again, Rose is a girls' girl. She's on the she's on the phone trying to um get the ambulance. She's always talking to the help. And I think I do think like we meet her when she's really annoyed because the doctor's getting to be a teacher and she is doing this. But um, I think maybe in season one she would have had her own like little scene with one of the dinner ladies and investigated on her own. Yes. Um, there's a lot to fit in, I suppose.
SPEAKER_03This is an episode that had they extended it like an extra 10 minutes, I wouldn't have minded. Right. But then we cut to Mr. Wagner's classroom, and he's just telling the kids to put their headphones on, and this is allegedly a maths class. And I'm like, these little kids are locked in on like their computers, they're brain-dead little hackers, and we see a rotating green cube and weird alien symbols on the screens, but that is actually just Paige's DD campaign that she's building, so don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Paige is a hacker.
SPEAKER_00This is the subplot I always forget about. This is I for between the like Sarah Jane Smith and Anthony Stuart Head and the bat people eating children. I also forget that the bat people are there for another reason. And so I I I don't know. Maybe it's just not as entertaining as the rest of the episode, but I'm always like, oh yeah, they're doing the cube thing, they're gonna be gods, whenever.
SPEAKER_04There's a lot going on in this episode.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think the Krillatane don't have a it's not like neat. They've got like a lot of stuff going on. It's like they're not trying to. It's like we get introduced to this is later, but they get introduced as like, oh, they take physical traits from people they invade, but they're not doing that in that in this episode.
SPEAKER_03That's just something that we it's all like exposition, and part of me is like, I'd like to see it. I would honestly like it'd been funny if as they're like eating these children that they absorb the best parts of the children, and maybe it's just their little hacker hands or something. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00And you can see the like, oh, speaking of there is one one child, and I love overacting extras. There's one child really going like the rest of them are like typing, and he's like really like it's very good, it's my favorite. Um he was gonna stand out. He was, he was like, I'm in it. Um the uh but yeah, the it's it's one of the you can feel the the straining of like trying to fit in all that exposition too, because and this is a little later, but when the doctor confronts Anthony Sturthead, he's like, But you look like a human. He's like, Ah, yes, this is an image inducer, blah blah blah. And it's like we okay, we we maybe don't need everything.
SPEAKER_03Maybe they thought this would be a two-part episode.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they need to bring the creatures back so that we already know things about them and they can just run wild.
SPEAKER_00And the nice thing is if they do, they can look completely different. Like that's one of the advantages of creating a species like this.
SPEAKER_02Right. It'd be quite fun to like have an episode of like a centauran or whatever, and then you find out that they're actually just acryletines that invade. Yes. Like whatever. I don't know. Maybe no, that's fun.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it would be like Centaurans with walks though, because Dan hitting them, it's like we have to evolve, we have to get stronger.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I I think it's also giving like they didn't realize how good Anthony Head would be, and they were like, Yeah, he's never gonna turn into a bat because he's scary enough already.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, correct.
SPEAKER_03It's also not in the budget because they're very bad at budgeting in Russell's era. Baby girl, I would hate to see your bank account. But then we cut to Mr. Finch giving a tour of the school to journalist Sarah Jane Smith, and he explains the new policy is that meals are free but compulsory, and offers her some chips, and she's like, ooh, I'd love some. But then she says what they've done at the school is amazing. And even though he might be working the students too hard, it's worth it for the results. And again, let's take a moment for our hot girl, our bad bitch, our legend. I feel safe that she's on this case. The way she is just like going along with this and like agreeing with him, Sarah Jane Smith would win Big Brother at this point because she would just tell people what they want to hear and then get the results. Y'all, I love her.
SPEAKER_00Would she win British Big Brother, though? Because they they vote on their contestants, unlike us in America.
SPEAKER_03It's probably best that we don't vote. She goes week one because every woman over the age of 50 goes in the first couple weeks on UK Big Brother, and then we miss them because they have all the iconic moments and we're left with terrible, just I will send you a nine-minute clip from our live feeds a couple years ago where a 50-plus-year-old mother is the HOH, and she literally is upstairs in the HOH room, stomps down the stairs on a Saturday morning, the first day of the feeds, and right into our hearts, and then just yells at the pretty boy 20-year-old, and then eventually gets him voted out that week.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Incredible. Now, of calling him crazy eyes and everything.
SPEAKER_04Chelsea, imagine Sarah Jane Smith and Angela her brother teaming up.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh. Sarah Jane wouldn't know what to do with Angela Murray. She wouldn't.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. She's she's so good. She steps back into the role. I love that we're introduced to her doing good journalism where she's like, you know, like you say, buttering him up, but putting in a few little digs here and there, and her little I see everything quite clearly. Like it's she's so good.
SPEAKER_03Added years to my life. My skin is clear.
SPEAKER_00I I also love Tenet's reaction, which is supposedly real, but I any I always bristle a little when I hear stuff like that because I I know things get taken and retaken and take, you know, multiple takes of things, but it he was such a fanboy. And it also does make me wonder how Christopher Eccleston would have acted it differently. Uh, but I love his like brilliant, like Sarah Jane Smith, like big smiles and such a dork. It's so good.
SPEAKER_03So sweet. He's very like in this next scene in the staff lounge, the doctor is talking with Mr. Parsons, the history teacher, about Mr. Finch replacing half the staff three months ago, and now students have extraordinary knowledge of history. He also says the teacher the doctor replaced didn't get sick but resigned when she won the lottery, which is weird because she didn't play the lottery. The ticket was just posted to her door at midnight. Would love if that happened to me. But then let's get to the scene, Gavin, because Mr. Finch brings Sarah Jane Smith to the staff lounge. And this is where the doctor is very much the audience insert of just being stunned, speechless, excited. And Mr. Finch is introducing her as this journalist doing a profile on him in the school. How prestigious. And then Sarah Jane does introduce herself to this stunned doctor, and he's like, uh, I'm John Smith. And Sarah Jane does have that like moment where her brain wrinkles and is like, I used to have a friend who sometimes went by that name, and he was a very uncommon man. And then she asks him if he's worked at the school for very long. But guess what? It's only day two for him. And she's thrilled to get his thoughts on the school and the new curriculum, and so many children getting sick. And he calls her out as somebody not doing a little profile, and she says, No harm in a little investigation. I love just how quickly their like banter is there. And the doctor is so charmed, but also a little sad because she just immediately turns away to introduce herself to others. This introduction, I get it. Like, I know it's probably embellished that story of, oh, this was just David Tennant, because they would have met behind the scenes, obviously. But it is very much like, oh, we have he has to be the audience right now.
SPEAKER_02It's very sweet. Um I think, you know, Classic Who gets a bad rap often for like its acting and stuff. And I think it's like the nature of how we used to make TV, it's a lot stagier. A lot of it was all shot in one ago. And I think Elizabeth Sladen coming back and being, I think, the standout of this episode just in terms of her acting is such a nice way of honoring classic who in a way that I think is more impactful than like bringing back whatever monster or whatever. Um, it could have been really tempting to fill this episode with like monsters that she'd fought back in the classic who and make it a big nostalgia thing, but it's like she never went away, basically. And she sort of is taking to this like much more single cam, much more modern way of making TV like so naturally.
SPEAKER_00They I I guess supposedly they did shoot that scene with two cameras, just in case. Uh because because they wanted to capture David Tennant and whatnot. That but once again, that's you know, we uh that's what was reported. And so, like, I'm not I'm not denying that they didn't do it, but I I just I think stories like that get a little overblown of like it was his first time seeing her, and it's like, yeah, I'm I'm sure that there was probably a read-through at some point, though they never read through on Star Trek, so no, they definitely did table reads for Doctor Who because Billy Piper has talked about all of those.
SPEAKER_03So to Christopher Eccleston, like everybody talks about the table reads because they were always late because they were filming the episode and just shuttled over for table reads.
SPEAKER_00We talked about one in a previous episode, too. Yeah, so yeah, absolutely. They did table reads, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, so like I'm sure there's there's a little bit of a still this is the first scene they acted in together, and people just forget, like, oh, first time we saw her. It's like first time we saw her in the scene.
SPEAKER_04That attests to David's good acting that he can like make that moment seem really genuine. Like he was an old friend he hasn't seen in 50 years.
SPEAKER_03We need to give David Tennant credit as being more of an actor because I think some of the fanboy stuff gets overplayed with him and like Capaldi, because Capaldi was such a huge fan as well.
SPEAKER_00And just good character work is the idea that like she comes to him, she's like, Oh, you're new. That's interesting. I'd like your perspective on this. He's like, Oh, you're doing a little more investigating, and she's instantly of two minds of like, okay, I'll circle back to you because you're new and I want that info, but also you can't give me any more information than I like. I'm here to investigate, so I'm gonna go introduce myself to other people. Also, you've already clocked me. I'm gonna go introduce myself to other people because exactly that that could be a dangerous situation. It's good, it's good character stuff.
SPEAKER_03She's the smartest person in the room.
SPEAKER_02It's very sweet because in her very first story in Classic Who, she's introduced kind of sneaking into units uh under a different name for her own investigations, and that kind of investigative stuff does fall away a little bit in her time in the show, just by the nature of she's on alien planets and stuff, but it's nice to make that like how she's introduced. It's like a slight soft reboot of her um, which I I just really like.
SPEAKER_03Listen, much like me and Paige, she's a nosy bitch who gets shit done. And we love that here. Exactly. She's going around, she's getting all the hot goss, and then she's gonna uncover baddies. Is Sarah Jane Smith a fire sign? We need to investigate Patreon astrology episode. Stay tuned. But y'all, we do cut to the hallways, like the bell is ringing, and Kenny is supposed to be headed to class, but he see, like he hears and kind of sees something weird coming from the maths room from earlier. And he's like, What's this? I'm gonna investigate. And I'm like, baby, be safe. I was so worried for him because I forgot so much of this episode. And he's like hearing something under the desk, and he peeks under, and one of them creepy bats is under the desk, but when he pops back up, it's just the teacher, Mr. Wagner, transforming back into his humanoid form. And he tells Kenny to run along. This isn't his classroom. I'm shocked they didn't kill this kid. I'm just like, Kenny, run, run. My babes. But y'all, I feel like Kenny should have told an adult. But don't worry, Sarah Jane's on the case because later that evening she's breaking into the school to investigate. Good for you. Be gay, do crimes. I'm declaring her queer, by the way. And you know what? Rose, Mickey, and the doctor are also breaking in to investigate. I think everyone should break into a school at least once in their lives. What? I've done it.
SPEAKER_04That's our official stance of the official stance.
SPEAKER_03I won't tell you which of my schools I broke into, but at least two.
SPEAKER_02I think that's also the first scene of Buffy, isn't it? Them into the school at night. So it's like it was a very buffy side.
SPEAKER_03It's gonna be great whenever like y'all three have a Buffy podcast, and I am the guest.
SPEAKER_00I I was supposed to help launch a Buffy podcast years ago that's still around, and they just never called. They they asked me for help on podcasting, and I told them all the information I had, and then they never contacted me again.
unknownOh my gosh.
SPEAKER_03So this is why we signed contracts ahead of time. I'm better.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's uh that's uh I'm not bitter. I'm fine.
SPEAKER_03Do you want me to edit anything out if you say their names?
SPEAKER_00And I'll be a bitch to No, I'm not gonna, I'm not even gonna say their names. I I I dislike them.
SPEAKER_03So it's okay. I hate a lot of people, and I feel like you two know a lot of them. But y'all, this is one of my fun little bits. So they're all breaking in separately, but the doctor sends Mickey to the maths department and Rose to the kitchens to get an oil sample. They all hear the bats in the school though, and as they Scooby-doo about the place, Sarah Jane accidentally stumbles upon the TARDIS hidden away. And whenever she backs out of the room, just stunned to see it, she turns around and she sees the doctor, and he's like, Hello, Sarah Jane. And it was just like, oh, again, they're both good actors, y'all. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Her reaction to seeing the TARDIS is like there, it's so much because there's like even like a flash of horror, because just the thought that like this is something she net she truly never thought she was gonna see again. So she like really knows what kind of adventures she's in for now. And so I I love it. Like she plays every note and it's just all on her face.
SPEAKER_04Oh, she's so good. I also read it as like when she heard him saying John Smith and like her thinking about the doctor, obviously. Like maybe there is a tiny part of her that like wished that was him, and then when she saw the TARDIS, it was the confirmation.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_02I wonder if Elizabeth Slayden has been kind of had been kind of rehearsing this moment for like 30, 40 years of just like, well, what would Sarah Jane do if she saw the doctor again? Because there's so many complicated emotions around that. I love that it's kind it is sort of played as horror, like initially because it's like our brain short circuits. She's so not expecting it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I would say, much like we see with Rose pretty soon, and even Yaz down the line that whenever the doctor disappears or does something, the first instinct isn't happiness or joy, it's anger and like, what the hell? And that's how you know she's a hot girl, a bad bitch, and has her own life because she's like, No, I'm not so sure about this. And I do like that she kind of goes into journalist mode, being like, you've regenerated. And he's like, half a dozen times. And then she gets a little self-conscious about getting old and they bond coming to the school over UFO sightings, but then she like completely breaks down and is pretty angry and reveals she waited for him. She thought he died. And he tells her, I lived, everybody else died. And that's his reference to the time war. And I really love her anger and almost disappointment in him for just not coming back, not talking to her, giving her any sign. And you do realize that yes, everyone loves the doctor, but the doctor is an asshole sometimes.
SPEAKER_04He abandons a lot of people, like he did have the option to go find her.
SPEAKER_03But he doesn't like to say goodbye. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think they did, you know, they make what he does seem understandable, is as hard as it is, um, without any of these characters then ending this episode being like, that's okay. Like they all wish he didn't do this and would change, but then like you can't really have the show then if the doctor just otherwise the doctor would be traveling with like 50 companions right now and it'd be like, what the hell is going on?
SPEAKER_03But no, that is just our show where we have like a dozen companions and the TARDIS and we drag one of y'all out to be a guest for the episode. Yeah. But no, I do like that the show allows the companions to like have their anger and express that. And it's not just like, oh, here's the doctor. Yeah. But they're cut off because they hear Mickey's screams and run towards it when they bump into Rose on the way there. And the doctor introduces the two, and Sarah Jane remarks, You can tell you're getting older, your assistants are getting younger, and Rose says she's not his assistant. And Sarah Jane's like, mm, in due time. And then this is the part where I don't like the doctor because he says mean things to Mickey like this. They find Mickey who opened a closet and they found tons of rats vacuum sealed into little bags, and he calls him a 10-year-old girl with pigtails and a frilly skirt. And Russell, why are you like this? You love to terrorize this character.
SPEAKER_04And it's very 2006, like cheap, like, you know, oh you're playing ball like a girl. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, weird gender stuff, and also the people talk about how Eccleston's doctor is mean, but this is by far one of the meanest personal attacks for no reason. Right. For like genuinely like, yeah. What are you what are you getting out of this?
SPEAKER_02I hate it. I think Eccleston might have been able to say it with like some kind of sarcasm or charm or something. I think it's it's sometimes you find in like the first few scripts of a new doctor, like the writers don't really know who this new doctor is. And it just seems so weird for the 10th doctor. And also because of where Ten and Mickey have come since then, like post-Christmas invasion, post-everything, like they don't have this relationship anymore.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, it's really weird, and yeah, really gendered. And whenever the doctor says weird gendered insults, you're like, you are an alien that can change everything about yourself. It's really weird that it's like when it's like when stuff set in like the far future has like little homophobic moments, you're like, that's more immersion-breaking to me than like the fact that this is filmed on like cheap cameras and there's bad CGI. Exactly. That's so weird.
SPEAKER_00And not to grab my James Bond bow tie, but it's also a very James Bond thing. The first James Bond movie post uh new bond is always a little carryover of the previous Bond. That's why you know Roger Moore had to be like, I'm not Sean Connery, and Timothy Dalton's first uh James Bond movie feels more Roger Moore-ish than his second one. And Goldeneye definitely has a little hangover from Dalton. Not too much because there was enough time that had passed, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03Gavin, why does that feel like a threat for later recording today?
SPEAKER_00It's it's literally a threat for later today.
SPEAKER_03It's a threat for recording a James Bond later.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, Oh wow.
SPEAKER_03But you know what? Evil-gendered stuff aside, Rose is like, let's focus. And she tries to figure out why they have vacuum-sealed rats in school. And Sarah Jane's like, they obviously dissect them in biology, but Rose says they haven't dissected stuff in years, and both are super catty with each other about her being young and Sarah Jane being older. And the doctor suggests they check out Finch's office as this like little pissy contest between our companions continues. And Sarah Jane tells Rose she used to travel with the doctor, but Rose says he never mentioned you. And the doctor is following behind them like a guy caught between his girlfriends. I wrote that and then the Scene continues with Mickey being like very gloating and teasing of the doctor, which good on Mickey, because it's like the missus and the ex every woman or every man's worst nightmare. Y'all, I don't like when girls just don't get along. Like me and Paige know this. It does not feel real.
SPEAKER_04It doesn't, I mean, I hate the scene, and I hate that they have that dynamic right off the bat. It does lead them into that good scene later where they like realize they have a lot in common and that it's silly that they're fighting like that and they needed some sort of tension to get there, but it still feels gross.
SPEAKER_02It feels somewhat in character for Rose, who in previous episodes has been like jealous about everything. Yeah. Yeah. Feels so weird for a grown woman to be like this. Especially when she knows.
SPEAKER_03She's like in her 50s and she's like, mmm.
SPEAKER_02It's like. I kind of I think it's a sort of more, it's like a funny dig at the doctor, I suppose, about Rose being so young, I guess. But then it's just like it's it's why we need a female showrunner because it just would not be like this.
SPEAKER_03The way Christopher Eccleston said he would like come back and do like a little like one episode cameo or something if there was a female showrunner. And I'm like, jump on that, everyone, right? Right now.
SPEAKER_00Take them up. Uh also, I don't know what UK schools were like in the early 2000s, but we were still dissecting things in the in the late 90s.
SPEAKER_04And yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And as a kid, as like a teen watching this, I was like, what? I've dissected a rat.
SPEAKER_00I don't know what you're talking about. And as a as a bonus for doing well in my biology class, my biology teacher let me hold a cow's brain.
SPEAKER_03So did you have to dissect a frog andor a starfish?
SPEAKER_04They had us do a frog, and notoriously, frogs are my favorite animal, so I refuse to do it.
SPEAKER_00Good for you. Good for you. I passed through chemistry because I'm colorblind. And so my teacher was just like, you can't really do many of the labs, so she just gave me A's.
SPEAKER_03No, because luckily I had a biology wonderkin as my partner, and he did the frog one, and I was like, No, I'm not doing anything. I think I literally just had to pretend to cut something. And then I was sick the day of the other dissection, and so I had to come back in, and the teacher basically did all of it, and I'm just sitting there like, I hate you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it always was like a weird moment because maybe I'm wrong, maybe they had just stopped it, but Rose is so adamant that like this is a clue or something. Yeah, and also it's like these bats are eating so many kids. Why do they need like another food source?
SPEAKER_00It's right, exactly. And also they're complaining that the kids aren't fat enough. Like those rats are certainly not fat enough. Oh.
SPEAKER_03And Paige does famously love rats, so I knew you were triggered in this. I was triggered. That disturbed me greatly. But then as they're like Scooby-dooing around to see what's up, the doctor opens a door and tells Rose, uh, you remember how you thought teachers slept at school when you were young? And then we have this great reveal of these like bat-like alien creatures hanging from the ceiling. And I do not care that they look like $2 CGIs in a dream. I love this. Bring this back. I want things to look cheesy and not real. Because all of this like realistic CGI, it just takes me out. I like it whenever it looks like little play-doh creatures. It's so much more fun.
SPEAKER_00The design is really nice. Yeah, like, and I agree, they don't look really good. It's really charming. It's a good looking design.
SPEAKER_04Again, yeah, very buffy. This whole scene of the like bats hanging from the ceiling, and it's the teachers.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I just like that they just Scooby-Doo run outside, but the doctor wants to analyze the oil from the kitchen. Uh-oh, the TARDIS is still inside the school. They did not think that through. But guess what? Sarah Jane has a little surprise. A little guy. She brought K9 with her. And like, I know. And it's like, yes, he was not working super great. She couldn't just like take him to a hardware store and get him fixed or anything. But guess what, y'all? There's an aerial view, a little bat creature is definitely watching them argue. And they're gonna fix this. So we cut to Mickey and Rose. They're eating some food where Mickey's like, I told you so. And the doctor's just like another bloke. And then we see off to the side, like Sarah Jane and the doctor are catching up as they repair K9. Mr. Finch and the bat are still like on the roof of this like whole school area, just checking them out. I feel like they need better surveillance, our little Scooby team this time. But then Sarah Jane asks if she did something wrong because he just dropped her off and never returned. She waited for him and he tries to say he was called back home and humans weren't allowed back at the time, and she didn't need him. And she says that, like, he was her life, and he showed her extraordinary things, and she was expected to just go back to her normal life after that. Like, imagine one of the best people you ever met. You thought they were dead, they just disappeared, and then whoopsie, they're back, and it's actually fine. And I do like that he gets a little defensive because the doctor can kind of be insensitive, and he's like, Do you want me to apologize for that? And she says, No, that she just got a taste of the splendor and then had to come back. And he says, I couldn't come back. And she tells him off for dropping her off in the wrong place. And then luckily he got canine working right in time, and our favorite little dog calls him master. Y'all. What do you think of this little scene of her just kind of like giving it to him and the doctor kind of being a jerk but trying to explain himself?
SPEAKER_04I like when the doctor how this episode leads into the next one, the girl in the fireplace, with all of that business, with her waiting the rest of her life for the doctor, essentially, and him never showing up. And I wonder like how he was thinking when all that stuff happened because of this with Sarah Jane Smith, like how that affected him, those two things happening back to back, essentially.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think I think we often associate the Peter Pan Doctor Who with Stephen Moffat, but this is the closest I feel like Russell T. Davies gets to Peter Panning Doctor Who by being like, I have to go, like, I don't age, I don't do the whole like years past thing that you do, and uh it's horrific, uh, you know, from my perspective. And so I can't I can't do that with you. Yeah. And yeah, but once again, I do think Russell T. Davies does a better job with this on the Sarah Jane adventures a couple years later with both Sarah Jane Smith and Joe Grant, and and coming especially coming from Matt Smith, who at the time was the youngest doctor and literally looked like a boy, and having a boy tell them, like, I I can't just be with you guys forever. Like, I'm always going to be this thing that is not human and uh it you're lovely, but it it's gotta be this way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It reminds me a little bit as like a follow-up to the scene in the parting of the waves in the cafe, where Rose is talking about how hard it is to just go back to a normal life, and you're seeing the sort of evidence of this here. I love that Doctor Who has so many of its emotional scenes in cafes, and it just where else would you have them, you know? But I just I like that juxtaposition of talking about time and space and like um over some a cup of tea. And yeah, I I think this is interesting because it I I love classic who I'm always defending it in terms of its emotions and stuff. It can be jarring to watch it when it handles companion exits because we in modern who and modern TV we squeeze all of that for every emotion we can. And a lot of the time in classic who characters do feel quite dumped because it's sort of how TV happened and and there is emotion, but you don't have like endless you wouldn't get like a doomsday or something with care with like a whole like 20 minutes of the characters crying. Um and you know, she did leave the show with like her suitcase and being like not even in Croydon, and you know, it was much more like bye-bye. And so I it the this episode's kind of retconning a little bit the flippancy of all of that to be kind of like an intentional character trait, and and also sort of implying um a bit more romance than maybe was intended at the time. I mean Tom Baker and Ellis was Laden had such amazing chemistry that like you can definitely read that as romantic, depending on the episode. Um but yeah, it's it's kind of because she's being so used as like a mirror to Rose, and we all know how Rose feels about the doctor and all of that going on. This all feels much more as conversation about romantic relationships or or whatever. Um even in the next scene, the doctor's like, imagine doing that to someone you blank. Um so I just find it interesting. They do it a lot with other like with the other companions that have come back, you've mentioned as well. Um where they just sort of like put a bit more emotion into whenever they're talking about classical. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I think that works best with Tegan because she's just pissed off, and I'm like, good for you, girl.
SPEAKER_00Oh well that's I always think of Tegan's exit, or it's literally basically just like bye. It's out.
SPEAKER_03I'm done.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Tegan has to be a fire sign. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't want to delay us any more than talking uh to talking about canine though, because uh I was so charmed instantly. That voice is so cute, and I love that it's just like master, he recognizes me.
SPEAKER_03As everyone knows, I am a dog person. I have so many dogs, I've lost count. So I'm just like, puppy! And I love a little guy.
SPEAKER_04That's my whole thing. I know.
SPEAKER_00Do do we know? And this this is a very and I also don't want to belabor this point. Like, are we all aware of the Australian one-season canine spin-off show that happened after this? Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_04I haven't seen any of it, but they tried to make that hard to find for a long time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was gonna say I've never really heard good things, but I I I liked the design, I'll give it that. And also, like, I like the idea of creator own stuff, and that's one of the nice things about Doctor Who is that they like the Daleks, they have to get permission, they have to get permission for chaos.
SPEAKER_03That's why we didn't get the Ronnie back for so long.
SPEAKER_00And and it's one of those things as a comic book fan I'm always bristling against that like when you create something for Marvel, they instantly own it and they do not have to say anything for you ever again. And that's so it is nice, but but yeah, not something I was super interested in.
SPEAKER_02No, I liked I like that, and also love that K9 just looks exactly the same in this episode that they didn't even like because I remember when the show was this episode was announced and they showed a picture of K9 as like a publicity still, everyone was shocked. But it's like, oh, it's just the prop. Like the Daleks got a redesign, the Cybermen are in the season, they got a redesign. Everything looked the TARDIS, everything got like a grungy modern look, and then K9 is just blonc.
SPEAKER_03Which I love the reasoning because she couldn't just take him to a repair shop because it's technology that could change the course of human history. Yeah, that's part of the charm. It is, but our guy canine analyzes the oil and reveals it's acrylatane oil, and that they're an amalgamation of the races they've conquered, and that's why they doctor didn't really recognize them at first. And he knows they're doing something to the children, and they have to investigate. Of course, they're doing something to the children. Doctor, you're just now realizing that. But no, I do like that the last time the doctor saw them, it's just like they were humans with long giraffe-like necks, and they're just that they take out like the best like parts that will advance their species, like their physical attributes. And I'm like, that's scary. We should bring them back. And then Mickey and Sarah Jane talk a little outside about the doctor, and she explains that the doctor likes to travel with an entourage, sometimes humans, sometimes aliens, sometimes a 10 dog. And she asks Mickey who he is, and he brags about being technical support before realizing he's the 10 dog of the little trio. Poor Mickey. Like Russell loves to kick this guy, even though Mickey, every time they kick Mickey, Mickey usually ends up solving a problem. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I will say I think this episode is works as like the start of a little Mickey trilogy where he this is the start of him getting his um, I guess, standing up for himself a bit more. And even though he kind of went through that arc in season one as well.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because like it happens a little in Aliens of London, a little boom town, a little parting of the ways. Like you see all these growths in the moments where Mickey is contributing like to saving the day, but I feel like maybe this is the one where it's like, oh no, Mickey, if you he had not been here, you would have died. Right.
SPEAKER_02Also, he doesn't know canine enough to know that Tin Dog is not an insult. K9 is a beloved part of the family.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. It's important. Oh. And then off to the side, Rose is feeling some kind of way about not being the first person the doctor's traveled with. And I do like this defensive doctor because he's like, as opposed to what? Because she's pressing him about being the next person in a long line of companions. And she realizes the doctor just leaves people behind. And he explains that he doesn't age, I just regenerate. Humans decay and wither away and die. Imagine watching that happen to someone you, dot, dot, dot. But he just explains that she can spend the rest of her life with him, but he can't spend the rest of his life with her, and that's the curse of a time lord. And just hearing the term time lord that does activate the little acryletin bats flying overhead and that does scare them. And I like that these bats are little jump scares into the next scene because it's a very effective way of cutting off these deep conversations to be like, oh yeah, we gotta focus.
SPEAKER_04That dot dot dot was very Mamma Mia when they're reading her journal, and they're like, dot dot dot.
SPEAKER_03So you're saying that Pierce Brosnan in Mamma Mia is also a Doctor Who?
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's one big crossover.
SPEAKER_03One big crossover. Mamma Mia, James Bond, Doctor Who. It's all connected.
SPEAKER_00My favorite thing Anthony Sturthead does in this episode, besides just be Anthony Sturthead, is when they're the they're surveilling them. He does this thing where he crouches, and the way he chooses to move his body and the way that they then copied it in the animation for the Bat Creature is so not human. It's very good. It's a very good choice.
SPEAKER_03Like, even like the way he leans forward and tilts his head a little bit is so creepy, and then you see it mirror.
SPEAKER_02Don't do that. He acts in this episode like he was convinced he would be turned CGI and he was just doing the reference for them. Yes, but 100%. 100 good good call.
SPEAKER_03And then they're like, it's not in the budget. Good thing we got a good actor. But y'all, the next day they all return to the school. The doctor confronts Mr. Finch at the pool. Rose and Sarah Jane have to go discover what's in the computers, and they've got the Sonic. And Mickey stays outside with K9, but don't worry, they crack the window for Mickey because the doctor has to be mean to him just a little bit. Mr. Finch reveals he's acryletin named Brother Lasar Laser? Oh no. He's Mr. Finch to me. And the wings are a recent addition to their form. He says the Titan Lords are pompous, dusty senators, afraid of change, which I mean the library was open. He did get that correct. But he does sense that the doctor is different, and the doctor warns him to stop, but you know what? Lasar threatens that maybe the doctor will join him as in I'm gonna absorb you. We're gonna take the best parts of you. Look out, buddy. I do like how menacing he is here because the doctor's like, you gotta stop. And he's like, or what?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. He's very good in this. I mean, we already talked about Anthony Stirhead being very good in the scene, but he's really he's delicious here.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Well, he's like good enough. He could have played the doctor or he could have played the master, he could have played like a big recurring role. I sort of think it's quite cute that he plays truly a monster of the week who's like got a really terrible plan. Like because he just brings so much to it. Imagine like anyone else doing these lines, they could be so much lesser. I just don't know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I do like that as a monster, he does love like the glamour and attention that he gets from like a journalist. But he's like, this is my plan, it is flawless. Also, here's all the flaws. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00He he did audition for the movie for the Paul McCann role, and he didn't get it.
SPEAKER_03Every British actor auditioned for that.
SPEAKER_00Also that, but I was gonna say it is documented, at least.
SPEAKER_03But then cutaway to Sarah Jane, who tries to talk to Rose about life after the doctor, and Rose does bristle at this at first, and they start shouting various things they've seen or encountered to one-up each other, before they just burst out like laughing at the Loch Ness monster. And then they do the beautiful thing that us girlies do, and we bond over the annoying things that a man does, aka the doctor in this case. And they're laughing so hard that when the doctor comes in to see what's up, they just point the sonic and they're laughing at him, and all is right in the world. This is actually how women who have a shared like connection with somebody actually behave. They're like, wait, wait, wait, does he still do this? Oh my gosh, yes, he does look at me like I'm stupid. I really love that moment.
SPEAKER_04And again, like I hate what was made to happen to bring them to that point because that all just feels gross. But this moment is so fun, and it really is like more genuine than the other stuff that happened. And yeah, just making fun of the doctor because he should be made fun of.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I do think there's a version that if a woman wrote this episode, that this is how it starts, and then like Sarah Jane is slowly like imparting this wisdom to her about being careful about what happened, and that they're bragging to each other about the things they've seen instead of competing. Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think it's truth, it's like more truthful when Rose looks at Sarah Jane and I think uh is kind of scared about her own role in all of this. But her she makes some really weird digs. She talks about how, like, oh yeah, you you're from time when we were still doing rationing. And I'm like, what are you talking about?
SPEAKER_03Listen, Russell's always gonna default to like, you're old or you're too young and dumb. And I'm just like, yeah, that's not how girlies connect.
SPEAKER_02And also my like fandom jangling keys. I do like the bit where they list all the monsters they've encountered just because they're all little references, and again, it's that like confirmation of classic who being real and all that stuff. That's and I do think it's funny that it ends on less monster, like seriously, like that's the thing that Rose can't believe.
SPEAKER_00Um silly. Also, supposedly the makeup artist gave David Tennet a mustache, which they were not expecting, so that's why they're that's what to keep them laughing when he walked in. So his reverse shot is obviously shot at a different time, but the uh I love that that's what the the that's why Rose like points at David Tennant during the scene.
SPEAKER_03I love that. There's something special about a companion just like casually pointing a sonic at the doctor and laughing at them. Yeah, we have to learn that. Yes. But y'all, what I think is crazy is that the doctor just let Mr. Finch go off while he had to be laughed at by his companions because Mr. Finch, he's on a mission, he's completing the final phase of his plan, and the staff are all called to the staff lounge, the students are called to the maths room, all the students except Kenny are excited, and as the Krillatanes devour the staff, which I think is hilarious, Kenny runs around the school trying to open the doors. He realizes they're all sealed, and he sees Mickey outside, and through the door, he just warns him that they've taken all the children. And Mickey runs to get K9 to figure out how to like get into the school. And K9's like, uh, we're in a car. You're in a car. And then Mickey's like, wait, I'm in a car, and I'm just gonna drive through it to unseal the door. And I love that he shouts, get out of the way to Kenny beforehand. This is very fun because sometimes you just have to use your brains. And then the doctor realizes they're using the oil to make the children smarter and asks Rose like a complicated math question, and she immediately does it. And Rose, again, you're too pretty for math. Don't worry about that, babes.
SPEAKER_04Couldn't be us.
SPEAKER_03And guess what? She's so smart because she's been even Eating the chips, because you know what? Me and Paige, we'd be all over them chips.
SPEAKER_02I swear she's eating the chips well beyond when she knows their evil alien oil stuff. Like it's like whatever.
SPEAKER_03That might be the most realistic part because how many of us eat and drink things that are horrible for us, even though we know we know. Like, y'all, I know I cannot have McDonald's fries. I ate four of them three days ago, and I've been sick ever since. I have witnessed you be like, I'm I'm gonna have a horrible day today, but I'm gonna eat this. Paige, the last time I had McDonald's fries before three days ago was with you that day, a year and a half ago.
SPEAKER_04I remember that vividly.
SPEAKER_02Also, we find out all this oil does is just make you smarter. Like it actually isn't bad for you at all. Right.
SPEAKER_03It's not bad for you. It just makes you smart little alien brain. Who cares? And then they're trying to crack the scasis paradigm. Girl, I don't do science. And if you can solve it, you can control it.
SPEAKER_00I don't think it's real science.
SPEAKER_03I don't think it's real science, but I'm too dumb to actually know real science. I'm cool and hot and have hobbies. You can control the building blocks of the universe if you crack this paradigm. And guess what? That includes space and matter. And guess what? The doctor is tempted by Mr. Finch because he's like, ooh, you could rebuild everything, save everyone. And he's like, I could rebuild the time lords. But then Sarah Jane reminds him that everything has its time and everything ends. Pain and loss are just as important as happiness and love. And the doctor smashes the screen with a chair, and Rose, Sarah Jane, and him, they scooby-doo out of that room. Meanwhile, the real heroes of this episode, Mickey and Kenny, they join our little gang in the cafeteria with Mr. Finch, and I do think it's hilarious that everybody's in their little bat form at this point. We get the fun little action portion because they're trying to figure out how to like get past them, and Kenny's like, uh, bam, smash pull the fire alarm, hurts the bats' ears, gives them time to scurry about and get people out of there. And Mickey runs to the computer room, but the kids are still glued into the computer. But guess what? He just follows the power cords using logic and unplugs it to save the kids. The doctor realizes the barrels are deadlocked sealed, but a laser hit from K9 will take it out. But he doesn't want to sacrifice the dog. I wouldn't either. Doctor, that should have been you. The doctor bids him a farewell and calls him a good dog and exits the building. He takes Sarah Jane's hand when she asks about K9 and just drags her away. K9, I love that our little dog mocks the crillatanes as he shoots, and part of the school just explodes. Because guess what? Even though that grease came from the crillatanes, they've changed their forms so much time that their physiology is different, and that part of them will destroy them. Whoopsies. They did not think that through. My guy Kenny is outside and the school cheers at the destruction and he's hailed a hero. Sarah Jane weeps over canine sacrifice. That would be me. I would sob for years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03What do we think of this little action sequence? Because so much happens. It's so much exposition, too.
SPEAKER_00I I don't know how they got away with it in this time, but I think if you were to pitch children cheering because they think another student blew up their school, it might not go over well.
SPEAKER_03I will say they were not thinking of the horrible things that happened to schools in the United States when they were. I know. And that is that is definitely a different amped up a couple years after that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's something I do encounter a lot when I'm writing and stuff. I've got a comic book set in a school with a US publisher, and in that I tried to do a whole like joke about like a fire drill and it being like a monster attack, and it's like, oh, fire drills, they're really boring and they never happen. Like there's never real fire. So you're just like, oh, what a waste of time. My publishers are like, drills in schools like that, they're not funny and they're not like flippant. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But but that's you know, you you're not dealing with that on a literal daily basis. So that's yeah.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, I think there's stuff about this episode that feels like they wouldn't do now.
SPEAKER_03Um not in a kind of like, I don't know, it's not a dated way, it's just that society has got worse way, especially in the United States.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And we're very loud and wrong about a lot of things.
SPEAKER_00The uh love love canine, love his love his little sacrifice. He's so good. What a good dog. What a good boy.
SPEAKER_03A good yeah, he's such a good guy, and then he just like insulting the monsters on his way out. Bad bitch, hot girly. But y'all, we cut to the park where Sarah Jane enters the TARDIS, and the doctor suggests she join them, but she declines, saying it's time she found a life of her own. Mickey asks if he can join them in the TARDIS, though, because he wants to be more than just a 10 dog, which Mickey, if you only knew that K9 was the coolest girly in the universe.
SPEAKER_04Exactly.
SPEAKER_03And the doctor agrees because previously, as we remember, the ninth doctor was gonna invite Mickey, and Mickey's like, I'm not so sure. Can you just pretend tell Rose I'm not invited? Yeah, and but here's the thing Rose does not look happy about Mickey coming into the TARDIS. Girl, we need to work on your jealousy issues.
SPEAKER_00For well, for all the the crap we've been giving her about being sort of childish in this episode, this is the most she's 19. Yeah, and she doesn't want she doesn't want her boyfriend who she's only occasionally boyfriend, girlfriend with when she's around being around her new boyfriend. And that's I yeah, this is the most uh like oh yeah, she's a 19-year-old.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, she's messy, but I like that. I think it's like I don't hate it.
SPEAKER_03She's like, I can't have my two boyfriends hanging out together. That's not okay. And it's like Rose, you just spent a whole time hanging out with the doctor's essential ex in this.
SPEAKER_00Especially the boyfriend I clearly don't like.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But before they depart, Rose does ask Sarah Jane what to do and wonders if she should stay with the doctor. Sarah Jane tells her some things are worth the heartbreak and to find her if she needs to. Sarah Jane thanks the doctor for her time with him, and he asks if there's anybody special, and she jokes there was one man she traveled with for a while, but he was a tough act to follow. He gives her a proper goodbye this time and they hug, and the TARDIS dematerializes. But guess what? Brand new canine is revealed. He explains the doctor rebuilt him and improved him, and guess what? Sarah Jane tells the dog, we got work to do. Ugh. The and y'all, this episode. I know it's just a monster of the week, but I feel like it has everything I love in a TV show. And it's not gonna be the most memorable episode, but I do like a really solid episode that you can just revisit and it builds the character.
SPEAKER_02I think I I think it's kind of funny. Like, I feel like if they had time, because I I read that this was quite a rushed script for a few different reasons. I mean, the usual. The usual, but if they had like more time to redraft it, I kind of wonder if I'd still like it as much, because I wonder if the Krillatane plot was like really intrinsically linked to Sarah Jane's like backstory and if it was all tied up and really smooth, if it would all be a bit much. There's something kind of sweet about it being an just an average day in the life of the doctor, and an average sort of I get the feeling that this is probably not the first alien thing Sarah Jane's encountered since leaving. And it just like that's the plot, and the story is uh completely separate, and I think kind of there's more time then to dig into the emotions of it than if that was all tied up together more neatly. But um You know, I'd love to we said at the start about companions that have come back, and I think like this is the way I'd love to do it because I know Mel came back, but she didn't get I guess like an episode devoted to the.
SPEAKER_03It was more like she's hanging out in the background, which I didn't like, and I think Tegan and Ace got a little bit more to do because they were in on the adventure, but it still wasn't like their episode because there was too much to do. But I would like more, like all of them plus others to just actually have an episode of their own.
SPEAKER_02For sure. So yeah, I I I really like it still.
SPEAKER_00No, I I I agree, and I I think you've sort of hit the nail on the head, Hamish, by like, I'm glad it's not an epic, you know, sort of everything is connected and and whatnot. And I think when you try and shoehore that all in, it makes a lot of it too complicated and and not as emotional. It kind of strips it of its emotionality. So this nice in-between of doing something um that's more what you're more used to from Doctor Who, but also centering her um and not just making her part of the background plot is yeah, it's really fantastic. I do I do also really like that watching this last night was a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03Ugh novel or most consistent listener.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say they're very consistent about asking questions.
SPEAKER_03I love it.
SPEAKER_00I love it. It's good.
SPEAKER_03Did the cattiness between Rose and Sarah Jane feel a bit off-kilter to you? Having watched Classic Who, it seemed very out of character for Sarah, and it remains, as far as I know, the only time where two companions were fighting over the doctor. Oh, keep doing uh, keep doing what you do and giving us listeners a great podcast. We will read compliments. Me and Pager fire signs, we will take it. We need the validation.
SPEAKER_04Please send us compliments.
SPEAKER_03Please. Payment complimenting us up top. It's like, this is how you secure your invite back. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's how you get a room in the TARDIS.
SPEAKER_03Gavin consistently did nice to meet you. But Gavin, you're consistently nice to me and respond to my voice notes that are deranged, yes.
SPEAKER_00But that's because you respond to my deranged voice notes. That's a very symbiotic relationship.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um, we did talk about it. It did feel off-kilter. I think, especially for Sarah Jane, because she's in her 50s, she is a grown-ass woman with a life and perspective. I don't think she'd actually be jealous of a 19-year-old. I can say, as like a 30-something-ish, maybe, maybe 84,000-year-old woman, that I am not jealous of 19-year-olds, even if they think they're cooler than me. And I'm like, you probably are. It's fine.
SPEAKER_00Not one little bit. Um also, I I think, you know, we we did talk about it a bit, but the the idea like she has had a life. And so, like, it does feel it. That's why it also feels a little weird that she would even because it invalidates a lot of her experience to see her revert to such a childish sort of because why does she care? She I I get that she's she's jealous she hasn't spent all these years with the doctor, but she knew the score, as Hamish put up earlier, too. So, like, yeah, it does it that is the one element of her personality that's kind of ugh in this episode.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think I I think I found it kind of funny as a kid, maybe when I'm watching it, because it feels like an indulgence the writer couldn't resist in a way, where it's like, it's funny, but it does kind of ruin their characters a bit. And I think maybe they learned that lesson because in series four, when Martha comes back, the doctor kind of prepares himself for Martha and Donna to have a big like clash, but then they're both adults about it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's like Martha being like, I like her, and like both of them saying that and immediately being like teaming up. And I think I like that moment. I think the closest we get to a fight is honestly just Tegan and Ace seeing Yaz in 13, but it's more like Tegan just being pissed at the doctor, which I'm like, yes, stay mad. Right.
SPEAKER_02And like we said, it's not out of character for Rose necessarily, right? There's companions where I could maybe imagine like Amy at in like season five, maybe being a bit like this, or maybe some of the companions, but like I it's it just feels really weird to be like that.
SPEAKER_03Um it is yes, it was a little weird, and there is a universe where those girlies just immediately bond over all of these things instead, and like the doctor is just uncomfortable about that.
SPEAKER_04That's our universe that we're the.
SPEAKER_03That is our universe. But yes, I'm we've talked about all the fun little notes about like David Tennant and the mustache. I'm like trying to think. I do always remember that Elizabeth Slayden said the third doctor was always her doctor, so I always like to shout that out, and maybe we'll cover some of those episodes like on our Patreon that's coming up in September. I think this drops in September, so I'm gonna have fun editing.
SPEAKER_00I'm willing to come on and talk a little bit about him just because he is the most James Bondy of the I was almost gonna suggest that, and then I'm like, Gavin, I'll talk to you later after this.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'll have my people call your people.
SPEAKER_02And her first story is really fun. It's uh also the first Santaran episode, and it's fun because she doesn't know who the doctor is, so she assumes the doctor is the villain of the week. Like he's the one that's like connecting everything and sort of kidnapping her through time and stuff. She's like, okay, so how do we stop the doctor?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it's it's fun.
SPEAKER_00That's really what we're trying to figure out on this podcast. How do we stop the doctor?
SPEAKER_03How?
SPEAKER_00Paige.
SPEAKER_03Sorry, a new bombshell has entered the TARDIS. There's a cat in the TARDIS. As I'm about to give a sad fun fact, so Elizabeth Slane suffered a tendon injury when after slipping on the gym floor, which is so real, they should have got her in the correct shoes for this. So, because of that, like the third AD had to put on a wig and like stand in for Sarah Jane whenever was needed. Ugh.
SPEAKER_00But what a gig.
SPEAKER_03What a gig. It's like I am Sarah Jane number two. And then my favorite little bit of this is the doctor calling him, Rose, and Mickey a team and then immediately hating it and test gang and comrades before it's just one of my favorite running bits with the doctor trying out human terms and being like, nope, that's not right. Hate it, and just moving on.
SPEAKER_00Would love if he consistently called them all comrades. Hey, fellow comrades. That'd be amazing.
SPEAKER_03Low-key. I think me and Paige should queer this up. I think Sarah Jane Smith, this is our fanfiction time. Uh late in life lesbian. Yes. Yes. Does have a queer son. Yeah. That's Canon. So I think she's a hot girl. She's a bad bitch. She is the president of P Flag in her chapter.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah. She's advocating for her son. She's doing like local P Flag groups. Yes.
SPEAKER_03And I gotta say, I cannot wait until her next appearance. I'm so excited. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_04Imagine her and River Song teaming up and doing something together and maybe falling in love. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03River Song does reference having a wife. Yeah. So was it Sarah? Was it Sarah? Was it Sarah Jane Smith? We'll start the rumors here. Might have to write that fan fiction. We might have to somebody send it us to the archive of our own. Companions, thank you so much for wandering into the TARDIS today. Let's just remind listeners where they can find you and all of your wonderful work. Gavin, you first, because you promote things that I do.
SPEAKER_00Well, uh, I co-host a monthly film podcast called The Mixed Reviews with my good friend Louie Rendon. And uh I also do the Q Division with Chels, who is my co-host with the most, my favorite agent. And that is a queer James Bond podcast where we've been traveling through all of the James Bond movies as well as some related media talking about the queerness of them, the feminist perspective and whatnot, and just having a lot of fun along the way. Um yeah, and you can find me on Blue Sky at sh it's Gavin, that's S-H-H-I-T-S-G-A-V-I-N, or I guess if you really want to find me on Instagram, it's at GavinMev, that's G-A V-I-N-M-E-V. Yeah, that's what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_03And then Hamish, tell everyone what you're doing, your own comics creative work, your own podcasting. You have so much going on.
SPEAKER_02Well, thank you. First of all, I want to shout out that my brother Harry was on an episode of the Q Division talking about never say never, never say never again. I can't do the song. Um it doesn't have a tune. No one should.
SPEAKER_03What a weird movie.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I watched it with him uh in preparation for the podcast and I had a great time, but it is very strange. Um, but it was a great episode, so I'm shouting that out. I'm Hamish Steele on Blue Sky, Instagram, everywhere else, and I'm a comic book author. I have a series called Go Man, um, Champion of Earth, and the sequel Go Man vs. the Star Dragon, which is a kind of kaiju power rangers-y thing about autism. And then I have a TV show called Dead End Paranormal Park on Netflix, which I think Doctor Who fans would get a kick out of because it's got time travel and monster of the week and queer lead characters, and basically I learnt how to write by reading Doctor Who scripts and reading Doc Who magazine. And so even though it's not like filled with Doctor Who references, it's like baked into how I write. Um and I guess if you I do have two big finish uh episodes.
SPEAKER_03We really buried the lead on this one.
SPEAKER_02Please promote those. They were my first ever writing gigs, and I have not listened to them since they came out. Um, but I do believe they're free on Spotify, and they're real like tenuous Doctor Who, Edges of the Universe, Companions, like of companions. Uh one is a Bernie Summerfield story called Big Dig, and one is Iris Wild Time and called The Slots of Geezer, which is a strange title.
SPEAKER_00Um I was gonna say I've seen a movie with that title too, but a very different subject, I think.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_02Egyptian-themed casino in space. Um, and it's about the horrors of gambling, but told through Doctor Who. But I that's just to say I have an I have a page on the Doctor Who TARDIS wiki, and that makes me very happy, even if I never contribute to the show again.
SPEAKER_03That's big, honestly.
SPEAKER_00That's great. Yeah, that's amazing.
SPEAKER_03And tell us about your podcast.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. I also have a podcast called Super Mario Moment. Everyone here is welcome if they have anything to say about Mario, or even if they don't, and I can give them something to react to. Um, it's with David Arnold, who's on a bunch of glitterdoor shows like Gimmicks and uh Are You My Mother and uh Fear Coded, um which I'm sure a bunch of you have also interacted with before. And comes out every other Monday, and we talk about Mario games and inevitably also from a queer perspective because that's what we do.
SPEAKER_03Just a lot of queers hanging out, the only people we really know. Yes. We love that I will be the first Super Mario person to just want to talk about these snacks of the Super Mario world. I'm bad at video games. Everyone's that's a fun concept. That is funny.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say, I remember the cereal, so I know that I got that.
SPEAKER_03But Gavin, if you can find it, the Super Mario Galaxy Trick Cereal that was released this year is my favorite thing. I have five boxes of it in here, just stocked up.
SPEAKER_00What were we just saying about eating things that are bad for you, Chels?
SPEAKER_03I mean, if you want to get me, put put it in the cereal.
SPEAKER_02I'll send I'll send a note to the cryletines.
SPEAKER_03Perfect. They're gonna get me. I just know it. I'm gonna be hoodwinked. But thank you for listening to Across the Hooniverse. We can be found wherever you listen to your podcast. Please make sure you rate and review our show. You can find us on Instagram, Blue Sky, Tumblr. Links are in the show notes, or you can email us across the universepod at gmail.com. You can send us voice notes asking questions. Hamish was our first voice notes in series one. Truly me trying to think of a number right there. Wow. And we can also be found on Patreon. We are across the universe. Get into our book club, get into our monthly bonus episodes where we talk about things that are very, very, very Doctor Who adjacent. And also look out because we are about to have a crochet and crafts little club that we're working on. Chelsea's gonna learn how to crochet. Paige is gonna lead us in crafting. You're a crafty girl, and I love it. We're gonna have our Doctor Who journaling session. It's gonna be so much fun. So everyone, go join the Patreon. And then Paige, remind the Time Lords, where else they can find you.
SPEAKER_04They can find me at Thoughts by Paige on Blue Sky. I am also Paige Noel Kaiser on Instagram, and I have a substack you can follow that's called called Girlhood in Low Resolution, where I talk about growing up as a girl on the internet in the 2000s and the pop culture of that time. I'm working on a piece right now about the Hillary Duff tour that's going on that Charles and I both went to. Separately slashed together. Yes, I'm talking about the nostalgia surrounding that. Um, I also do a podcast with Chelsea called Sh My Stories Are On with our friends Jesse and Owen, talking mostly about reality TV. Um, I was also recently on an episode of Fear Coded talking about Jennifer's body, which was so much fun. I'll take any opportunity to talk about Jennifer's body. Please ask me about it. Um, and I don't know when it's coming out, but I was on an episode of the Q Division talking about Debs.
SPEAKER_00That should be out early, well, mid mid-late September. Early mid-late September. Does that sound good?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. Probably around this time. Wibbly wobbly, timey whimey.
SPEAKER_04Timey whimey. It's all good.
SPEAKER_03Beautiful. And I'm Chell 725 on Blue Sky, serialized, letterbox, Chell Cycles on Instagram. If you can find my Tumblr, you're stronger than acrylicane. You can listen to me and Gavin, my like fellow agent companion on the Q Division. We are pretty much wrapping up all of our little summer excursions, our special missions. Paige, you were an excellent agent this year. You really queered it up. Thank you so much. And of course, listen to me and Paige on Shh, my stories are on with Jesse and Owen. Jesse will be back eventually because we're gonna force Jesse to like Doctor Who at some point. I believe in us. And then, of course, I'm a frequent guest on Female Gaze the Film Club, where this summer I did talk about Jody Whitaker's adult life skills, and I'm on and a rewatch talking about Karen Gill and selfie and how I just want longer seasons of television. It's very important to me. So be sure to join us for our next adventure across space and time as we revisit the girl in the fireplace with them. Super special returning companions. Maybe one of them is right here. Who knows? But until then, we'll see you in the time vortex.