The Breakfast Club On Netflix, Viola Davis, Sherry Shepherd, Fast Food Wars & More | Raised By Her

Why did the McDonald’s CEO “product” ad flop so hard - and what does it reveal about authenticity in 2026 marketing? In this episode of Raised by Her, we unpack the fast-food “brand wars,” the backlash that followed, and why some companies consistently win public trust while others miss the moment.

From there, we shift into culture and legacy - reflecting on the NAACP Image Awards, the importance of Black spaces, and the emotional impact of Viola Davis’s viral speech (and why it resonated so widely). We also talk honestly about caregiving, grace, and what it means to show up for family through difficult seasons.

Then we get into the media business: Netflix vs. YouTube for podcasting - who’s actually built for discovery, community, and engagement, and whether “viewer platforms” are replacing traditional engagement-first spaces.

We close on a joyful note with a milestone 75th birthday celebration, multigenerational wisdom, career pivots, resilience through rejection, and a surprise Alaska cruise reveal.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 The McDonald’s CEO "Bite" Scandal Exposed
 02:48 Why Executive Communications Fail Authenticity Tests
 04:38 Fast Food Wars: Wendy’s vs. Burger King Strategy
 07:54 The "Where's the Beef" Legacy & Marketing History
 11:06 Purple for a Purpose: Celebrating Women's History
 15:16 Why Black Spaces Matter: NAACP Image Awards History
 19:27 Viola Davis Speech: "The Definition of Hell" Explained
 23:10 Caregiving & Grace: Lessons from Alzheimer’s Journeys
 27:51 The Daytime TV Purge: Why Sherry Shepherd was Cancelled
 34:24 Michelle Obama’s Secret to the Perfect Career Pivot
 42:14 Netflix vs. YouTube: The Future of Podcasting Engagement
 53:01 75 Years of Wisdom: Celebrating a Legacy Milestone
 55:48 The Ultimate Birthday Gift: Alaska Cruise Reveal

🎤 New episodes every week. Honest conversations between mother and daughter on family, womanhood, and navigating life across generations.

Speaking, partnerships, and press: raisedbyherpodcast@gmail.com.

👍 Like, 💬 comment, and 🔔 subscribe to be part of the conversation.

📱 Instagram:   / raisedbyherpodcast   
📘 Facebook:   / raisedbyherpodcast 
 𝕏 X/Twitter: https://x.com/RaisedByHerPod
📲 Follow us on TikTok: @RaisedByHerPodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Welcome back to Raise by Her. Please feel free to like and subscribe. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:14

I'm doing great.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

I am doing great. Yes. We're about to talk about um in a little bit after some other topics about why you're doing so. Yep, yep, yep, that's true. Yes. But in the meantime, when's the last time you had McDonald's?

SPEAKER_00 0:28

A McDonald's, what? Um I like their fish sandwiches every now and then. Um, my favorite is well, you know, I love ice cream. So my favorite is soft surf ice cream on a hot day, or if I'm running between something, sometimes I'll zip in there and and uh get an ice cream cone.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Really? Just well, because I've I've tried their ice cream, it doesn't taste like ice cream.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

No, like compared to the other brands or how well no, but it's um quick and easy. It's quick and easy. The calories are not uh ridiculous. And I don't go back and get two more scoops after I finished it, I'm gone. So I get a I get a cone and you know, just kind of move on.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

So why why would you imagine that question? So all week um there's been a lot of conversation around the fact that McDonald's put out a new advertisement, and it was a video of their CEO taking a big little bite of their new sandwich. And it was to promote the new sandwich, but it got a ton of backlash because there were like, he looks like he hates it, he's calling it a product and not even like a sandwich. He took like an itty bitty bite. Now, I didn't think it was an itty-bitty bite when I saw the video, but folks were roasting really company, they're roasting the marketing teams. Like, why would you even put this out there? This is a commercial you're talking about that's on television or not social media? TV commercials are like kind of like the bottom of the rung. It's like you do tell me that it might be no, so I think it was just like on social media. I don't actually don't know how the McDonald's marketing team put it out. I think it was a part of their executive communications, whatever that looks like. Okay. It went further than it would normally because people were like, What is this nonsense? So he's supposed to be testing, trying this new He's supposed to be taking a you sound like him, product not a sandwich, not the best burger ever, ever, but a product. Um, yeah, he was taking a bite of their new sandwich, and uh it was one of the new hamburgers or you know, version of the hamburger. And um, yeah, they were like, your CEO looks like he hates what he allegedly sells. And the way he's presenting himself is like he's never had a hamburger in his life.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Well, like the that's a problem on on two levels. One with the marketing team. I mean, the marketing team should not have even had something like that distributed, period, point blank. So uh shame on them for uh for doing that. But number two, I don't know why you would use your your CEO in that way unless he already had some kind of commercial experience in terms of uh presentation in for for a new product or a new sandwich or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

I think there's a big push for corporations to have their executives more invisible because it adds to the credibility of an organization. It helps humanize corporations at a time when there is record low trust in companies and the companies that are doing a really good job in executive communications and the executives that are really learning and leaning into and leveraging media and social media and thought leadership, they are seeing a great response for their organization.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Okay. I mean, I I think what you have just shared is a good response to why you would have maybe a top-level executive, but it has to be the right person. Yes, that part. And it has to be a person who looks like they're authentic or they've had some training. That's this is not hard to do. I have uh a very near and dear place in my heart for McDonald's because the McDonald's corporation locally was the first advertiser that um became a sponsor for uh for our radio station back in November of 1930. You were hitting our Target demographic. I was hitting our Target demographic, and fast food was really popular back in the early 90s. I don't know how popular it is today, but that's a fair butt.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Well, you know what's interesting. So um companies have kind of jumped on the bandwagon. So Burger King came out um almost immediately with their CEO taking a now. This was a big bite. There was no no illusion whether this was a little bite or a big bite of um their product, one of their burgers, and talking about he's like, you know, this is how I take a bite and it's so good, and I'm going back for so they really use that as a the communications team came out and said that uh this was not in response to McDonald's, that this was already in the plan. And so folks were like, hmm. And then Wendy's CEO did oh wow, something similar as well. Except for Wendy's has better credibility, I feel like, on social media than uh McDonald's or Burger King, because they for years have been really leaning into culture in a certain type of way and really gazing in a more authentic way than I think what McDonald's was trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

What you're saying about Wendy's is absolutely true because um when they began just the whole fast food war in terms of fast food war. It was back the back in the day when people used to watch television and and also uh did a lot of advertising on on radio, it was a fast food war, but because um the gentleman who started Wendy's Dave in in Columbus, he he became the spokesperson for their sandwiches, and the name Wendy's came uh was yes, it was his daughter, and so there was a an authenticity from the very beginning with how with how they started. Now, I'm not saying that Ronald McDonald was not authentic as as the the person um back in the 90s, but this is very um It's fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

I'm fascinating thing to watch from a communications perspective.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

And when you talk about taking a little bite or a a bit bite, it reminds me when you were a little girl, and I'd say, Donica, can mommy have uh just a little bite of that? And you'd say no. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

It's mine.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

It's mine. And I'd say it'd only be a little I'm I'm you know, that I'm finished with whatever it is. But the the the fact of the matter is at one point your your dad said, Well, Donica, why not? And you said her little bites are are big bites. And I just remember that because everybody cracked up laughing. So what I'm thinking that perhaps the CEO of McDonald's should have done was take a big bite when you would it could have been a yeah, when I watched it, I I actually didn't think it was a teeny tiny bite.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

But to your your story and your point, I guess it's all in perspective. It is in perspective. And when you are um going to do some advertising, it it might not hurt to exaggerate a little bit. When you're trying to make the point that this is the best burger ever and you are representing the fact that it's the best burger ever. Do they have a name for their new burger that they are promoting? They do. I can't remember. I think it's called the MacArthur, but don't quote me on that, because I didn't pay a ton of attention, not being a, you know, I'm a vegetarian. So I was really pulled in from the communication. Yeah, I'm wondering why they're even caught your attention. The product uh right.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

So normally at this time of the year, McDonald's comes out with their their summer lineup of food. So they they bring back the McGribs, they they do this this whole cycling of different products. And they, well, I knew and they tested it uh in various markets, and if it does well in this market and another market, then they'll continue to roll it out throughout the country. So they do have a quality standard that uh all fast foods restaurants do to make sure that there's a similarity in terms of product and taste and how from the franchiser to franchisee, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah, no, I mean it it it's model, it's a model that worked and um clearly. And uh yeah, I'm I am a bit curious to see how these fast food wars um continue. Because one of the things that came out is these different companies um are battling each other in a certain type of way. Um that they were like, you know, it's just such a crowded market right now. And in my mind, I'm like, what area isn't a crowded market, actually? Like, of course everything's competitive.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Which is why you do have to have a product that is exceptional, a product that can, I think, relate to different demographics, and a product that has a different kind of authentic taste that really uh I think sort of tickles the pallets in a certain way.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

McDonald's is getting praise for coming back out um shortly after receiving um, I don't know if you call it backlash or additional conversation around their initial video with an image um saying something like try our product or something like that. Okay, product was kind of like a part of the reason that folks were talking, like, why would he call it a product? Why not a piece of food? Or you know, it's well, and so they were like, okay, that was a really good response to their own kind of um issue, non-issue that might have been.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

One of the best commercials that made a lot of money for Wendy's years ago was their Where's the Beef commercial. This was this was a part of the war, and there were some commercials that indicated this was on television, where you were looking at the sandwiches and the sandwiches some of the other uh fast food restaurants had, the amount of beef was not very much in the sandwiches. And so some brilliant marketing person had an idea of where's the beef campaign, and then they started weighing how much of the actual um meat weighed in the various uh sandwiches, and it was a huge war, and it was very creative, and it worked very well for Wendy's uh Where's the Beef. So uh there may be more to come here. Yes, you're seeing it. Now I'm paying attention. Yes, I guess you are. That uh now I missed that completely. It's fine, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Um if it were ice cream wars, you probably would have. I probably would have. I well, I would have, yes. Yes, absolutely so. Um, so that's one thing that happened this past week. And then also, you know, okay, so I feel like we are now in March. And for those of you watching, you might see that we are dressed in purple, in part because we're coming from a different event this morning that was celebrating uh Women's History Month, International Women's Day, and purple is one of the colors um that represents this month. And so we were there and now we're here, but that is the reason that we were that we are wearing purple. But last month, and we talked a little bit about these various incidences, uh, was a bit of a rough Black History Month, I feel like, between um the president and his imagery of uh the first black president, and then uh production companies allowing the N-word to just go everywhere and award ceremonies, yes. Yeah, I mean, and so um I was really thrilled to watch actually to see clips of let me be clear, the NAACP awards. I feel like they did such a good job of celebrating black culture, black actors, black actresses, black musicians, just just everyone kind of like involved in helping create culture. And um it was good. It was all um one of the things that I enjoyed the most so was the host. So Dion, oh gosh, his his name is just escaped me. That's awful. Because we just saw him in um Dion Cole. Thank you. Uh Dion Cole, do you remember seeing him um in a comedy show? It was was it last year or two years ago? He got a lot of people. That we that we uh went to see you, me and my and my husband. Right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Do you remember seeing him? I I didn't remember remember the name, but I remember going to a comedy show and he was so funny.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Yeah, he he brought that same humor. Okay. Um, and he opened the show um acting like um it was a prayer and like a black church. Oh yeah. And so he was like, Dear Lord, uh-huh, is how he started everything. And then he kind of went into some of the comedy of it. So he was like, you know, um, I'm gonna pray for all of those who can't pronounce anybody's name, but they're gonna try anyway. And so it was just like relatable, you know, go ahead and pray for those actors in the audiences that are pretending that they're not checking their name for Twitter to see if they're trending or not. Uh and so he just did uh a really kind of good job. He was creative, very creative. He got some backlash though, as hosts and comedians sometimes do. Um because he was using the church platform as well. So that part was hilarious. He got some backlash because he made a joke about Nicki Minaj. And yeah, what do he who did he say in particular? Hold on. I have to look up so I can get it all the way. I want to get it all the way right. So let me see if I can find it quickly. Well, if I can't find it quickly.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

You can look for it. I I was gonna say while you while you're looking for it, um, for those who may not be as familiar with the NAACP uh image awards, they were started in 1967 as a platform to be able to celebrate uh excellence in terms of black media, black entertainment, to be able to sort of take our own individuals and our own images and our own celebrations for those who were excellent in the field. And they have been going strong since 1967, and it's just grown and grown. And now it's like a five-day event where they are going into all the different categories that we have uh black creative or black creativity. So it's been great.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

So I'm actually gonna just say one more point on that because there's a lot of backlash, I feel like, that I see around in in the now times uh black spaces. Um, and so I you you provide some historical context to why those spaces are necessary and why they are created, because I know you know, but I don't think that there's great general awareness about the necessity of why these spaces were created. And it's because we were not included.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

We were not included, and there was so much dialogue, especially if you think about where the country was in the 1960s, and we were going through the civil rights movement, we were going through a lot of the challenges of being able to have voice and to find our place. And you had riots, and you unfortunately had a lot of assassinations, you had a lot of people with a lot of rage and anger that was really taking place in the country and in the world at that particular uh time period. And so finally, in terms of what we needed to do, let's just celebrate our own, let's take our own black excellence, let's decide how we want to be able to not not only to create the platforms to be able to say you're good at this, you're good at this, and you're great at this and recognize it, but let's take our voice and be able to share. And so that's what happened across the board and the NAACP being one of the earlier organizations that took this on and then just had a chance to grow this and grow it. And now it's one of the major areas where black excellence is recognized.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Okay, thank you for sharing that because I know that you know that, but I think it's important to just continue to give the historical background and context as to why some of these spaces exist. Okay, yes, I finally found the joke. Lord, we want you to bless our sister Nicki Minaj, Lord. She's been going through a lot lately, hasn't been herself, Lord. I believe what what's ever in her ass is affecting her brain, Lord. And so Nicki Minaj has quite oh, you need to laugh at that one. Um you know why. Nicki Minaj has uh quite the active fan base on social media. They're called barbs, uh Barbies, short for Barbies, and they went after him viciously, and not only him, but his family as well, like talking about his mother and just really kind of horrific, awful things. They went after him. Him him the him Dion Cole, the one who loses comedians. Yeah, the comedian, yeah. Because he went because he made that joke about their philosophy that they kind of are ride or die for. So by and large, the the response and the receptiveness to his performance was like he was overall outstanding, and people still kind of laughed and giggled at that joke too, but he did see quite a bit and had to come back out. I don't think he apologized, but I think he did address it in some way in terms of like the hostility that came from that particular kind of Nicki Minaj fan-based community.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

And I know that McComedians use their platform and we use humor to be able to make a statement. We make we use humor to be able to sometimes just sort of ease the tension in the room. And then sometimes because it's just outright funny. But for people of color, there's a real sensitivity about um our bodies, our body size, just there's just yeah, you gotta be careful about that. So you have to be very careful about that. And I think that's probably why there may have been uh some pushback too.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Uh and a lot of the big feelings about kind of what Nicki Minaj Nicki Minaj is doing currently.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Currently, yes. Her her political stance is is being somewhat questioned um across the board in terms of the platform. But in terms of the image awards, uh the section where they recognized sinners, sinners received 13 different awards, but Viola Davis had a moment in time where she was visibly moved when she had a chance to be able to just pause and celebrate that moment when she was doing that presentation.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Was that the NAACP award, or was that the it's not called the SAG Awards, the Actors Award? The Actors Awards. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's is that what you're talking about in terms of when she was giving the award to um Michael B. Jordan? Is that what you're referring to?

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Yes, I am referring to that, but you're you're right. And but there was a moment at uh the NAACP Awards where she too, she was actually recognized. Yeah, she was. Samuel um Samuel Ella Jackson did a tribute to her, and she got the I think it was called the Chairman's Award.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

So a lot of awards has gone viral for all the right reasons. And it was, I've actually watched it two or three times because I found it to be so impactful and so moving, as she is. I mean, she's as she has an incredible story to tell. I didn't read her book, but I saw some of her interviews. You did you read her book? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Okay, as she's her story. Well, I was just gonna say her story is is one to not only um to be told time and time again, but how she was able to get through it. But I actually saw her speak um at a luncheon several years ago and uh have a picture with her that I took. And and having a chance to say to her, thank you for being honest and authentic in uh in your book and in writing, but also thank you for telling the story because many, especially young women, but many people think where they are is where they have to stay. But what she was able to do is to tell the story and tell how in life there's one challenge and then another challenge and then another challenge, and then she kept pushing through. But go ahead, you could talk about her speech.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

So she opened um her speech by acknowledging one of her favorite quotes, and it says, The definition of hell is on your last day on earth, the person you became meets the person you could have become. That's how she opened it. And folks were like, I'm I'm type thing. Yes, yes, so yeah, so it was that type of powerful in terms of her speech. And then she went on to talk about how there is no man behind the curtain and that you are responsible for your life.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

No wizard of oz is what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

There's no wizard of oz, allegedly.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Allegedly, and as much as I love that fairy tale, but okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Oh, yeah. Um, and she talked about how black people, your crown has already been bought and paid for. And all you have to do is put it on.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Is wear it. Wear it. Yeah, wear it proudly.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

It's if you have the chance, please go look up that speech and watch it. It's not long. She did a good job of keeping it concise, and it was very moving. And if you're looking for a point of inspiration in your day or in your week or in your month, or as you're rounding out, what like I said, this seems to be a uh it was quite volatile Black History Month. It's and going into this women's history month, it's worth a listen to kick off your women's history month.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

So what we're really saying is that um take a moment, pause. Maybe get off of some of the reality shows and other things. I mean, look into attack. And and look at what's real at a time when we need to be able to celebrate ourselves and to give ourselves credit for what we have been through, what we've gone through, what we still may be going through, because you know it's not just a straight journey. There are always the detours, they're always the challenges, but there's an opportunity to get to the destination if you just keep moving forward. And that's what I think these messages are.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

There's another powerful piece in her speech where she started naming names of the folks that have been impactful for her. Obviously, she couldn't name them all. Sure. But then she went into generally speaking, like the folks who work at a food bank at a particular uh community and the folks who are taking care of her mother, who's uh currently suffering with dementia and or Alzheimer's. And so she's like, the people who are doing like the real work, if you will, um, she's like, those are my heroes. And I just want all those people to know that I see you.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Well, that's relatable because I I I know that feeling. I know you do. Um because um in the latter years of mommy's life, although she lived to be 94, we know that she had Alzheimer's, and uh the individuals who took care of her were uh special men and women and they had hearts of gold. Yeah um you met one uh again recently because we had a a moment of of celebration for a friend's um sister, and we were um there, and one of the people who took care of mommy came and um just talked about how wonderful mom's spirit was. And and um even though it was challenging in the end, mommy still had the spirit. You know, I would say she could look at me and I could look in her eyes, and I could know if she was relating to what was going on at the moment, or if she was um someplace else trying to figure out what was going on.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Tough disease.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

It is a tough disease. And I the the moment the care for the patients and for the families. You're right, right. Yes, the the the caregivers and the lovers and family members. Um there was a moment where um several of our cousins came to visit mommy and they were um giving mom hugs and you know, they just love not rose, and they were saying that some of their best memories were spent with uh with your grandmother, with with mom. And I said, Why are you saying it some of the best memories? And they said, Because as kids, we used to think about our family reunions, which um uh mom and dad hosted for uh 30-something years, and we used to think about uh the songs, and they decided to sing a lot of singing, a lot of because mommy liked singing, she liked love, love, love music. And beautiful voice. Yes, she did have a beautiful voice. And you know, we've talked about she could play the piano.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

And she taught herself, didn't she?

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Yes, yes, she played by ear.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

I'm believing. And um, but her her family called somebody who tried to learn English.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

A girl with a continued voice. Yes, exactly, exactly. She could she could play by ear and she could pick it up just like that. So beautiful voice and playing by ear. But uh our family, uh especially on the the Joan side, um, had a a lot of musical talent. But they started singing to mom when um they were visiting her, and all of a sudden she got tears in her eyes. And now music is one of the things that really relates to the Mitchell patients. Um, and then she would try to sing and remember some of the uh the songs there, and so hearing Viola Davis relate to the people who made it possible for her mother to have the kind of life near the end of her life that we would want for um for any of our loved ones is a special moment. Amen. Amen. Yeah, that's that's good. Yeah, it's good stuff. Um, well, in the NAACP image awards, they also gave um some recognition to salt and pepper. Uh, they had some special awards uh that they were giving to uh other individuals to for their black excellence. So across the board, over all the different days and nights, and uh, what they were saying is keep doing what you're doing in spite of what's going on in our world today. Keep doing what it is that you're doing, and we are going to recognize you and we can love you for it.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Keep going, keep going. Um, so that is a show that aired, but and and I don't walk I don't watch daytime television, but um you you are more you talk to me about what's going on in daytime television. Well let me know what I've been missing. I mean, I've seen bits and pieces about different shows being canceled and then not canceled, and then like broader conversations about where does this fit in the media of next.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

So uh in in in real time, the the area of talk show hosts is very popular. So and there are several uh white females and black females who have successful talk shows.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Wait, are there any male TV talk shows?

SPEAKER_00 27:34

I wonder if it's you mean like the the Phil Donahue days of years ago.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Montel Montel Williams. Yeah, he used to have a show. Well, that's interesting. I never thought about that before. That like the men are kind of few and far between in terms of.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

So well, you're if you're talking there's Jennifer Hudson and there's Tamara Hall now. And of course, um, what I was mentioning to you was that the Sherry Shepherd show had been had been canceled. And they watched? I did. Okay. Yes. Um, I have watched it and I do watch it periodically. I watch it for especially the intro because she's a comedian. Okay. In addition to being a very successful actress, and she's had longevity when a lot of people haven't. Uh, she used to be years ago, she was on the View talk show that Barbara Walters had started. The View is still going. So The View is still going, but she's one of the many individuals that sort of came in and out. Yeah. Um But unfortunately, recently, although it was a popular show, her show has been canceled. So there's a lot of conversation about why. Why would you cancel a show today that has been successful, that um has a woman who um not only has been good at it but is multi-talented in what she's doing. But Sherry took over that show as a result of Wendy Williams.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Right, that's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Yeah, wasn't having it. Yes, because and so and and what happened with with Wendy, she had some uh some health challenges and some mental challenges, and so eventually she was uh she was taken off the air. They had substitute hosts for a while, and then eventually they gave the new show named Sherry, the Sherry Shepherd show.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

So why do you think that they've taken um her? Why do you think they've canceled her show?

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Um there's a an opinion that um she was not doing what needed to be done today in terms of content, following along with what some of the producers wanted her to do. Um that there was audience dropping off and and ratings. Okay. Now we're talking about others at the end of the day. Which is why, which is why there was a lot of controversy uh about it. And when you start comparing numbers for the black hosted shows and some of the white-hosted shows, and you're seeing that the white-hosted shows are still there, it's making people ask questions. Ask questions. And and and really back to what we were saying earlier that you have to take control of your own.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

So what did Sherry said? Has she said anything?

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Um, yeah, she finally did uh say something. Um first she was devastated. They had just announced the next season. Let's just say, I don't know what the time frame was, two weeks, four weeks. This caught her off guard. It caught her very much.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

That had been in the oh, that's tough.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

And it is tough. And so, and it was tough to hear her say how um affected she was. Yeah. But the the moment in time when somebody doesn't want you never feels good. I I mean rejection. So when it's part of life, it is, uh, and it's very much a part of this business. So you're evaluated on a regular, ongoing basis. You're evaluated every day for what you do, how you look, what you say, and the numbers.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Well, it's something to consider if one wants to go into media. Right definitely. It is definitely it's a tough industry. There are lots of tough industries, but to the degree that you can, you kind of need to know what you're getting into.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

So my heart went out to Sherry because the the fact of the matter is she was doing her thing and it appeared that it was going to be yes, getting results, and it was going to be a long run.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

So um do you know how long her show ran?

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Um, I did know five, five or six um seasons. I'm not sure. And then they long, okay. But remember, she took over from Wendy, so we're only talking uh just a few years ago from that standpoint. So what what is what we believe is that she will land on her feet that somebody else will pick her up, or something else better is in the horizon for her. But um, she has a sense of humor, a heart of goal. She is very supportive of uh of all people, but particularly of uh people of color. And um, she has great humor. She's just fun.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

I mean, she's so talented, and so I agree with you. And I know that it hurts. You know, we have our own stories of rejection. Um, and so we know what that feels like. But I also feel like this is a moment in time where um media is in such a transition and folks are really curious about what the new media landscape is going to be. And so she could go and um still continue to lean into the traditional media of it all. Or she could also like build a platform like Don Lemon, you know, and and have more autonomy over her success and because she is so talented, and then rise up from that way and still make a ton of money. Like I believe, hopefully, you know, she has options.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

And Don Lemon, uh, by the way, received four NAAC, his show, uh, received four NAACP image awards. And what he decided to do was to use not only his voice, but his talent skills, and then those around him to be able to make another kind of statement. And when he speaks his voice, people listen, and then there's rejection, and then sometimes you can uh end up being arrested. And uh that was that was a little ugly scene in terms of the whole political uh realm. But at the end of the day, Sherry will be fine. Yeah, we don't know exactly where she's gonna land yet. She has a little while longer to be on the air. Okay, but it's uh it's not good.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

So that reminds me. So earlier this morning when I was on my way to the gym, I was listening to the latest episode of In My Opinion, uh the Michelle Obama podcast with her brother. And this was their 100th episode. Oh, wow. And so they were doing a tribute to their mother and saying how and it made me think of our podcast as we continue to tr to uh pay tribute to the folks. Yes, yes, and but they were talking about how um they used her mother as an example um about constantly reinventing herself and how she retired and then six months until she rested, and then after six months, she went back to work. She rested for six months. She rested for six months and then she went back to work. And then they have callers call in, and there was a gentleman who um was talking about how he had achieved he was how he had achieved everything that he wanted to achieve, and now he wants to pivot, but he doesn't know exactly what it is he wants to do. And he's 23 years old. So he's had quite a minute, he's had massive success um already. And so he's like, but I'm trying to figure out like what is it I want to do next. And so that got them into a conversation around how many pivots you will go through in your life. And I think it's so helpful from a mental and emotional perspective to look at rejection or look at um redirection as just another opportunity. Like it does hurt, but don't let the hurt span for don't let the hurt stop you. Yes, don't exactly don't let it stop you, let it continue to to fuel you. And then of course Michelle Obama talked about all the different career pivots that she's had her life so she could personalize. And look where she is now. Yeah. Well, how many pivots like talk to me about your pivots? Because you and I have to be specific. Uh start from you were a theater major.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Uh yes, yes. And I was going to um go to New York, and I planned to be um on the stage and to act in in New York. And then what happened? I went to New York for an internship, and that's when I had an opportunity to see what really goes on behind the scenes. Then you were like, nah, then what happened? Uh well, yeah, it was behind the scenes wasn't something I was willing to sacrifice. I mean, uh at that point, and this is back in the uh late uh 60s, early 70s, and I didn't like what I saw behind the scenes. So I I decided to then go to graduate school in broadcasting. So I went into I made a pivot right then and there, um, much to the chagrin of my parents who didn't understand why I had gone all the way through grade school and all the all the way through studying theater and then deciding that I wanted to do something new and different. But it was okay because then I went to graduate school and um I learned television. And while I was doing television, first job, someone called me up about doing radio. So um you said yes, and I said yes, and then I made that pivot. And then um, after being in radio for an important while to continue to say yes to opportunities that to continue to continue to say yes, but also this was talk radio I was asked to do, and that meant that it's a whole different realm of people calling in, asking you all kinds of questions, and you needed to be uh informed, you needed to at least have opinions that people were interested in in listening to, but you needed to have confidence in yourself and you needed to be well read and well studied. And actually, because I liked reading, this was before the internet. So it was so so after that um I went into uh producing for public television and uh I did a little bit of that while I was doing some some radio, and then I got out of the field completely and totally, and I worked for Dayton Board of Education and Communications and then the University of Dayton uh in the area of communications, and then I started the radio station. I I was doing things, stretching myself, but saying yes. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

So I just I I because you've had such a varied career, I just think uh personalizing the pivots is is helpful. And it's also relatable. I mean, for me, um went to law school, became a lawyer, was like, nope, don't love it. So then went to DC and started a career in politics and uh was on the hill for several years, and I was like, time for me to go. And so then was recruited into multinational companies, which then gave me a broader global perspective. And then I was like, I'll start my own business. And so then I did that, which is a whole other, you know, realm outside of being in-house. And then, you know, now I'm doing all these extra things. I model, we have this podcast. I mean, so the ability to continue to pivot and say yes to new and different things, as we mentioned last podcast, focus on the things that energize you, it can open you up to whole new worlds.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

And all while these things are going on, life is happening. So there are relationships, there are marriages, there are divorces, there are kids, there are other things. Sometimes you make the choice, sometimes the choice is made for you. But I always say when the choice is made for you, you're really making the choice too, because your next step is the step that is going to move you forward. So you can't stay in where I was, you stay in to the thought process. I'm not going to be where I am right now forever and ever and ever. Mistakes will be made. Don't be afraid of them. Don't be afraid of making the mistakes. Decide through it is how you learn. Actually, it's the way it's designed. So if you ask any successful person in life, how did you get here? They have to talk about the journey was so much more difficult. But being honest, if they're being honest. But thank you, Lord. And that's whether or not you are born with the silver spoon in your mouth. I used to say all the time, my last name was not Rockefeller. So where I am now, where I am now. You worked for it. I had well, I did, but I had a great safety net. So I have to say thank you to my aunts and uncles and friends and cousins and everybody who supported it, in addition to Rosa and the message to that gentleman on the In My Opinion podcast.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Um, hopefully he heard it because he got several different examples. Uh was that, sir, at 23, you still have a lot of life to live. You are in Gen Z, which is nowadays projected to live longer than any previous generation. So you got another 70, 80, sir, you there were gonna be so many pivots. I know you think you've had major success thus far in your 23 years. Good for you. You know, you have some great foundation there, but you know, that was going and it's actually a characteristic of that that age group.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Um, when I was uh at my college uh recently for a board meeting and we were talking about some of the characteristics. And it does sound, excuse me, it sounds kind of strange to have someone at 23 to think that they have lived and they don't even have an idea of what real life is yet, however, that is a characteristic. What we have to do, those of us who are older and maybe hopefully wiser, we have to be able to encourage, like um Michelle and her brother were were doing on the podcast, give them a point of reality, but also the skill sets of what you need to do to be able to push yourself forward. The mentorship piece. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Because don't leave the 20-year-olds hanging. And the 30-year-olds and the 40-year-olds. Or the 50-year-olds.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

No, yeah, make sure that what you are doing is is helping to move it forward because there's so many more opportunities out there. Yeah, ways to learn, ways to grow, and to just to move yourself forward. So I think that uh we can continue to do that.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Oh, yeah, yeah. So in continuing the conversation between media and communications and the different platforms and the different opportunities and kind of all the things that are available in 2026. Um, I I listen to a lot of podcasts. So um I listened to The Breakfast Club as well. And they have a co-host. Her name is Jess Hilarious. She is also a comedian.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

You know, when you first told me that, excuse me, I I thought you were saying her her name was just hilarious, J-U-S-T. But then I started listening to it's Jess. Just Jess. Jessica. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Jessica is hilarious, though, uh, periodically.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

So yeah, sorry. Um, and so uh the Breakfast Club recently signed a podcast deal with, and the Breakfast Club is one of the most successful podcasts out there, right? Um they recently signed a deal with Netflix. And so um Jess Hilarious has a tendency to go on live, um, go on social media live and kind of give her opinions about different things. And so she went on a live and talked about how this was the wrong move for the organization that she is a part of because from her perspective, the Breakfast Club built, and she's a newer um co-host. So she wasn't the woman who started the Breakfast Club, but she is the woman who's been there now for a while. And she said that this was the wrong move because they are already losing engagement and that Netflix is not an engagement platform, and that they've built this massive audience on YouTube, and they are leaving them hanging because the Netflix deal that they had to sign doesn't allow for any additional social media. Like it's Netflix or nothing. They went with Netflix, and so they're like, it's it's a viewer platform, it's it's not an engagement platform, which is what, from her perspective, podcasts are supposed to be. And so I think it's a really interesting dialogue discussion, and um we're in the midst of a transition trying to figure out like what exactly the different platforms I think podcasting is gonna have access to. Um, the importance of engagement. I agree, I haven't agree with her on that point. I think engagement is so important on a on the podcasting platform. But Netflix is also, I think they're trying to take out YouTube in a certain type of way because every show, Netflix is one of the platforms I I watch. On a nice stream. But as a part of their good shows, everything has a podcast after after it next.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

Okay. So so what you're talking about is actually the change in that's taking place in the whole media industry, media and entertainment. So the opportunity to be able to grow your platform, grow your messaging, grow your product is what's out there. The challenge that I think that Jess is having is this is working for us. Why are we messing with it? And they're messing with it because there's a money opportunity here. A lot of money being poured into it. First, they were uh a radio show, and then they, I mean, they've been able to grow the breakfast deal. The Breakfast Club, you know, has just grown and grown and grown. So that means that um everybody's making more money. Those who own the rights to the show, the um the hosts are making more money, the producers are making more money. There's a a great opportunity to be able to change the landscape. Engagement today is so different than it has been in years past. I think that's where she may not be embracing um all of the uh opportunities. The podcast world, although it's been around now for what uh a long time. Yeah, 20, 15, 20 years. I mean, uh initially, but it's not an everyday podcast like going to turn on your TV or your radio. I know you say that all the time. So it is for you.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

And and and I feel like if it is for me, it probably is for a lot of different people.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

You're a millennial, that's different.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

That's true, but it's not just millennials or Gen X, it's also Gen, it it's it's the media of the future. It is the media of the future, so Netflix will be paying for it.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Well, but you see, what what's happened is Netflix is the media of the future as well. I mean, they're do trying to do these big deals and trying to have more ownership, and you know, they're buying out other companies and there's mergers taking place. There's just a whole different landscape that's going to be out there. So if the question is, is this a good idea? Um, what you what you really believe, I I think is this is a opportunity for engagement, but it's also an opportunity that she's not necessarily seeing as an opportunity. Am I correct?

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Um no, I think that um I don't know if it's a good idea. I look forward to seeing it. I think it's a risk. Um, but I also think that in business you have to take risks and you have to take risks to grow. And so they're they're gonna try it. I, you know, I don't know how long the deal is signed for, but you can always go back to some of these other platforms if it doesn't work. You know, I just uh but you know, it is a because it's it's let Netflix is a viewer platform, right? So I, you know, you you turn it on and you watch it like a movie. Whereas we were just talking about uh podcasting is yes, that's a possibility, but then there's also audio, and then there's also like the the social media engagement piece. And uh a part of what she talked about was how this puts extra pressure on the co-hosts to find additional ways to engage because they don't want to lose the engagement that they have, but they're but they're unable to do it. And the viewers, some of the viewers who don't want to pay for Netflix, uh, you don't have to pay for YouTube. Uh, you know, they they don't want to do like this extra step, and so it's leaving them behind. Now, I don't know. I mean, there's also a big discussion around like how is podcasting going to be received on a platform like like Netflix, because in addition to buying some shows like The Breakfast Club, they've also invested in some celebrity podcasts. I think there's like a minimum of two or three out there. Maybe there's there's more.

SPEAKER_00 47:51

Oh, there are more out there. Yes. Um, name brand awareness and creating podcasts has become um sort of the next it thing. And so, and if you take whatever your your product was or what you were doing, whether it's uh a successful TV show or whether it's uh actually news outlets, um, many individuals are forming these the podcasts and other ways to be able to get viewership and listenership. What they're hoping is that there'll be a crossover audience.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

Well, what I'm talking about though is actually creating a show that Netflix is already backing production-wise. And so the show only exists, the podcast only exists on Netflix. So, for example, the Pete Davidson show, um, he is a comedian. And um, so they are yeah, his podcast, which is new, we've never done it before, I don't think. Um, you know, it's only on Netflix. And so it just launched because again, Netflix is doing this this new push. And folks are like, well, it's not a TV show because it's way too casual for that. And it's kind of like a stream of consciousness. There's no structure. Folks are like, well, it's a podcast. Yes. If it's a podcast, I can't really engage. It's weird to listen to. There's not really any question.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Like he he's he's a comedian, but he's not like a the conversation, you know, it's just he's doing he's doing his stand-up as a as a podcast sort of kind of, but he's he's talking through it.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Which I guess maybe a part of the challenge was his was one of the guests that he had when they were talking about like their drug-induced parties and stuff and something for like the whole board. But I mean it's I, you know, so I so folks are like, but what is this? Because it's not, it doesn't have the production value of a TV show, but that's the platform that it's on, but then doesn't have the engagement value of a podcast because it's not on a podcasting platform.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

So Netflix is trying new and different things and they have I I think spent a lot of money researching what does the future audience look like and what do they want. So if you would go to high school students today or go to college students today and ask them how much time they spend actually watching andor listening to podcasts or programs, you know it's a very small period of time because their interaction has to do with things that are happening immediately, immediately, just kind of kind of like the TikTok uh platform is, um, Instagram being a little bit longer and different. So what I believe Netflix is trying to do is to be ahead of the game and then hoping that whether it's YouTube or somebody else will catch up with them. But remember when YouTube started, it was something that was so foreign that people just did not um quite understand. I don't remember when YouTube started. Oh, oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Okay, okay, all right. I realize I am somewhat late to the case. Okay, but yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Well, just because it was so brand new to media, and then to be able to watch it on your telephone was just a novel idea. I mean, we we we were listen used to listening to things on our telephone at that point, but not really sitting and watching this teeny little screen compared to your computer screen or compared to your TV screen. But change has happened, and so it's it's opened up another whole world. So, I mean, everybody talks about YouTube and everything is on YouTube, and that's what I believe Netflix is is trying to do because they were pretty revolutionary when they started out too.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 51:24

Yeah, they came from like Block the Blockbuster model, the Blockbuster model, and they created programming where they they release the whole season. That wasn't something I appreciate for the fellow ventures out there. But that was, I mean, I I thought, what? What do you mean they have to release the whole season? That's why it's taking so long for the next series to to start. And then you people binge watch. Oh yeah. I'd never heard binge. What does binge watching TV mean? And who has the time for that? I love the time. Well, now it's the every well, you're you know, you're a millennial, it's everything. I don't sit and binge watch much. You know, now that I'm retired, it's it's a little different. But I used to think that was the craziest thing in the world. You have to go to work, you have to do this, you have all these other things to do. And you're gonna tell me you have an opportunity to sit and watch one particular show episode after after episode. What kind of sense does that even make?

SPEAKER_01 52:15

But now it's standard. So I mean I see, like I said, I see what Netflix is trying to do. I am curious to Jess's point, um, about how it's going to impact the nature of podcasting, generally. I don't and I don't have an answer to that question. I uh but I but I'm watching and I'm curious to see.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

Well, they'll take their dollar signs and they'll be happy probably which way they the Breakfast Club I'm talking about, folks. Uh and and the stars are um they're doing other things too. They so they're making money in other ways as well. So people are listening to them. So yeah, it's good. Yeah, so oh well, it's been a good dialogue.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

It has been a good dialogue, but we um should end with the most exciting thing that happened this week, which is the fact that you turned 75 years old.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

I did. I turned 75 years old this week. Thank you. Thank you very much. How does 75 feel? It feels great. Um, 75 feels uh exciting for me because I I feel good. I have all lots of new and different exciting things that I'm doing. I'm still meeting people and engaging in life in a in a way that I think uh allows me to stretch myself. Uh, it allows for a lot of breath in terms of living. Um, and I've I've had a blessed life. Now, did I ever think about being what 75 was going to be like or being 75? No, I didn't think about that. Um, I used to talk to to mommy about aging. And because my mother Rosa had, uh, as you know, your grandmother had a young spirit.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Yeah, she did.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

She she just embraced age and she embraced life with um, it is a true blessing to be here. She also really loved birthdays, though.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

She felt that we are a birthday celebrating. Birthdays are very important.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Don't just include it in everything else. You take your moment, the moment that God allowed you to come into this world and to be able to take a breath and then to start being who you are, who you're meant to be, and taking on all of the things that God has in store for you is a moment that needs to be celebrated. And so she spent a lot of time talking to me, not only about the day I was born, snowstorm as a matter of fact, right back in 1951. Uh, she was in a car accident on the way to uh the hospital at that point, but she she talked to me about the day I was born because she wanted me to remember from the standpoint it was special, that this connection was special, and that she and my uh daddy were so excited, and my aunts and uncles at that particular time, and that she wanted me to feel like I needed to live a life that I would love.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Well, I I love that, and I also love the fact that um this celebration is going to go on for a while because do you want to reveal what your big presentation is? Well, no, you reveal what my big thing is.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

Well, yes, because you and and your husband and friends, I I'm I'm just excited, but it is the way we live our life. I mean, I am saying that that it's exciting to be able to have wonderful opportunities and to be blessed with a wonderful daughter and a son-in-law and other friends and family members who embrace not only me, but they've been a part of my journey and they make me feel so very special. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:44

Well, uh for your seven-fifth birthday, we are taking you on an Alaskan cruise. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I know that was a bucket list. It's a bucket list item. And uh, we had actually planned the cruise um right when COVID hit, and then I had to do the very fun thing of going through the cruise lines and the insurance companies and all the adjustments. Yes, yes, we were canceled. But um, we are we that's okay. It wasn't meant to be then to be now for your 75th. And so we look forward to being able to share with you um once we cruise about what an Alaskan cruise is like and how much fun we had and it's like to party on a glacier. How about that? With the whales. With the whales, how fun.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

So this birthday is going on and on. So I say all to all of you who don't always think that celebrating birthdays are um a possibility or big idea, you can celebrate yourself, do something that you love to do just for you, but just be grateful that God has given you the opportunity to continue to move your life forward because not everybody's here.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Yeah, not everybody makes it.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Not everybody makes it.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

So and on that note, happy birthday again.

SPEAKER_00 56:51

Thank you, sweetie.

SPEAKER_01 56:52

I appreciate it. Right, and thank you to all of our listeners and all of our viewers. We hope you enjoyed the conversation. Please feel free to like and subscribe, and we will see you next week. Take care. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_02 57:15

She's got a wisdom. She's got that. She's got questions, she's got class. That's the key for the mother.