Oscars 2026, Michael B. Jordan Wins, Oprah Kiss Cam Drama + “High Value Men” Debate | Raised By Her

From Michael B. Jordan’s Oscar win to a viral Kiss Cam workplace scandal, we break down the cultural moments everyone is talking about in 2026.

In this episode of Raised By Her, we unpack the intersection of relationships, power, and public perception. We start with the ongoing prenup debate sparked by Dak Prescott—and what it reveals about marriage as both a love story and a financial contract.

We then shift to the 2026 Oscars, celebrating Michael B. Jordan’s standout moment and Misty Copeland’s powerful return, while addressing the continued scrutiny of Black hair in media and why protections like the CROWN Act still matter.

From there, we break down the viral “Kiss Cam” controversy—exploring workplace boundaries, leadership, and the cultural response following Oprah Winfrey’s widely discussed interview. We also examine the cancellation of The Bachelorette and what it says about accountability, reality TV, and public image.

From “high value” rhetoric to real-world consequences, this episode explores what it means to move with intention, integrity, and awareness in today’s culture.

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Welcome to Raised By Her
 00:36 Dak Prescott & the Prenup Debate
 02:09 Is Marriage a Business Contract?
 04:29 Debunking “High Value Man” Rhetoric
 07:07 2026 Oscars: Michael B. Jordan’s Big Night
 11:50 Why Sinners Deserved Best Picture
13:24 Misty Copeland & Black Excellence in Ballet
18:01 Hair Politics & “Bohemian Braids”
21:06 Why the CROWN Act Still Matters
24:42 Workplace Boundaries & Viral CEO Scandal
30:37 Oprah’s Kiss Cam Interview: Victim or Villain?
44:50 The Risk of Dating Your Boss
57:07 Why The Bachelorette Was Cancelled
1:01:13 The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives Explained
1:17:16 D. L. Hughley & The Power of Laughter

🎤 New episodes every week. Honest conversations between mother and daughter on family, womanhood, and navigating life across generations.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Thank you so much for joining us on the Raise by Her podcast. It really helps us out. If you download, subscribe, like, and love. And also please leave us a review. Ready to jump in this week? How about that? How are you? I'm doing well. And yourself? I'm doing great. Thank you. Thank you. So based on our last episode, we got a ton of comments around our conversation on Dak Prescott and prenups. Oh, yes. Yes. So I wanted to read a couple and get your responses or and or reactions. Okay. Any to some of these. Um, okay, so the first one is yep, it's a stronger and kinder decision than letting it continue. And you don't marry someone that thinks that way about prenups.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Wow, that's very interesting. Um, I think that based on what you said last week and some comments that I heard this week, it makes sense if you have the kind of assets that are, I think, sort of unequal when the two people are coming into the marriage relationship.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

Or even equal.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

Well, yes, but we don't have to get back into it.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

But I okay, all right. I would say if if there are any type of asset assets, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

And there are always assets, depending on what kind of your relationship that you actually get married to. Right. It's different when you're in your late teens or early twenties and you're in his mercy.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Well, I know today. I know. I know. Um, okay, so another comment said, Why wouldn't she sign a prenup? She's with him because she loves him, it's not about his money.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

And that particular comment is the one that I think I heard the most people saying, you know, what difference would it make?

SPEAKER_03 2:01

And a part of our conversation was that marriage is absolutely about love and business and money. That's right. Marriage is a business contract.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Well, it because it has to do with the relationship, but also the business of being able to be together. So I'm, you know, I'm good with that.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

Another another person said, Why wouldn't she sign? She isn't lacing up in the gym, none of it. People wanting half of what another earns simply because they exist are disgusting.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

I actually had a a friend that sent me a text who had watched the uh the episode and said that uh he and his former wife had a prenup and uh the prenup had a a date and time place. If they stay married for this particular amount of time, then um then there would be a 50-50 uh split. However, when they split, um he decided that he was not going to fight the prenup. He was not going to go along with the prenup and he decided to just walk away, he said, with what he had when he came into the marriage.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Okay, interesting. Awesome. Well, I mean, my reaction to this person is that uh, first of all, I don't know if I think of relationships as 50-50. I think of them as 100-100.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

And that's the way they should be.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Yeah. And uh people probably aren't doing the same things in their relationship, which is a part of the reason why ideally it works. And so if he is out in this particular situation that we're talking about Dak Prescott, if he is the one that's going out and uh he's an athlete, yeah. He is a football player, if he's doing that, and we talked about the fact they have kids and she's at home taking care of the kids and all of what it takes to manage a household, that is in fact work as well. And we don't want to devalue what another person relates.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

That was truly my perspective as well. But uh we got a lot of comments though. We did everybody has an opinion.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

Yes, they do, yes, they do. Um, I'll stop there, but we love it when you engage and comment and uh give us your thoughts on our thoughts on some of the things that are going on in our culture and our society.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

So I think it makes a difference how you feel about not only your relationship, but how you feel about the relationships in general. So and yourself. Well, that's real important. That is real important.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

So we won't we won't dive into this because this would send us on a whole different uh tangent. But have you heard the language of high value man and or high value woman? Uh no, but I'm sure I am one, right? No, please, please, uh clarified. Clarify, I mean, uh so it again, this will this will send us on a whole other tangent. Social media term or a popular It was a cultural term that came to popularity by a gentleman who is now deceased, who was, um, I believe he was in his 50s. I'm not going to do him the courtesy of saying his name because I do not like what his rhetoric represented from a and his opinions about women and what they represented.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

His opinion, um, the one of his opinions was that he was a high value man. So he had a certain amount of money, and so he kind of do and operate how he wanted, based on the fact that he viewed himself as a high value man, and he had a lot of opinions about what women needed to do in order to kind of earn or be appealing to a high value man. And what were some of those uh characteristics? You know, I can't even remember because this was actually it was a while ago. By the way, like I said, he was never married. I don't even know if he was ever partnered, and he was never married, and he talked about the fact that he was a high value.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Okay, I think that speaks volumes. It it tells us a lot about who he is, what he is, and what he stood for.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

And um, we never want to speak ill of the deceased. Okay, I will just give you one more piece of context. Um, he passed away um with, and he, I think he might have been, I think I said like in his 50s, maybe sixties. He passed away while um having sexual relations with like a 20-year-old prostitute. And he considered himself a high value man.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

And I'll just leave right there. Okay, well, obviously, I am not a high value woman based upon that criteria. Well, we have different criteria. That's what it is. We have a lot of different criteria, okay. So that's an interesting kind of way to describe I've I think um his particular circumstance. But okay, like you said, we won't go any further. Um, for all those of you out there who have values, make sure that they, I believe, have a different kind of set of um expectations. Let's just say that involvements, moral character. Never mind. Yeah, oh yeah, we could go on and on. Did you watch the Oscars? Oh, I did the whole thing the whole thing for the first time in years, and I was so glad I did. Now, I was watching them because I really wanted to be able to see centers and how well that uh that particular movie was going to do, and I wanted to be able to just be there is since they were nominated for 16 Oscars in those different categories, and I wanted to be there and cheer on all 16 Oscars.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

Kudos to you for watching because the Oscar uh it continue like it got, I feel like decent viewership, but it continues to decline. I think last year was the lowest viewed Oscars ever, and this year was even lower. Now we're still talking about millions and millions of people.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Sure, sure, uh around the world, millions and millions of people around the world actually watched the Oscars. And I thought Conan O'Brien did a really good job. I've heard good things about that. Yeah, he was funny, yeah, and he was timely, and I felt like he was not only um getting some punches in here and there for different people and things going on around the world, some things we have actually talked about, but also I thought he was relevant.

SPEAKER_03 8:19

Love a relevant host. Yeah, yeah. Um, one of my favorite things about the Oscars, there were several. I actually overall thought it was um a a decent, yeah, a decent program. I loved what centers did receive. I felt like they should have received more.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Uh, you and most of the other people that uh make comments uh on social media felt that they should have received more. They they got four Oscars, and of course, Michael B. Jordan um getting the best actor was celebrated on such a high level. And I I want to talk a little bit about his his speech and just how he not only his comments were very heartfelt, but he recognized Mama first that I loved, I love that um his father was there, and he said his father came in from Ghana in addition to other family members. But he also just talked about the journey in a very short period of time, and you could just feel his enthusiasm and his excitement for those who had come before him and for the fact that this movie made a statement.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

I appreciate the fact that he rolled with his family into the Oscars, and that people, you know, when you win these big awards, all types of people come out and they talk about their relationship with you, their experience with you, and that people just have had really positive experiences with him. And they they're like, you know, he's just a what you saw on stage is literally who he is, and he's a good person that treats people well. And uh, so that's another piece that I really love that there's like good continuity of character.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

One of the things that he talked about, not necessarily during his Oscar speech, but was his relationship with uh Chadwick Bull Bolsoman, his good friend. And he said they had talked about winning an Oscar, and they had talked about as good friends uh what they wanted to do with their talent, with their resources. And he wanted to just share in this interview that I saw, he wanted to share the fact that what they wanted to do was to be not only representing Black excellence, they wanted to have a movie that they made that would celebrate history and culture. They also wanted to have a movie that would allow for the story to be told in a way that was meaningful to uh people of color. And he felt like all of the things that were very important to him were really represented in the movie centers. Uh he didn't know that initially, but he did feel that it was there. And so that night uh when he was on stage, uh he had on his uh the collar in the back of his um his tuxedo a pin that actually represented his friend in a special way. And so um it was just really kind of cool.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

Um powerful black friendship, particularly male friendship. Oh, I just I love that. I know. I said and he played two roles.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Uh yes, he played it himself and then played his brother. Yeah, he just which is why he deserved that that award in many ways. The film should have won Best Picture. I thought so too. Okay. I thought it too. No, I I mean I I I felt like it should have won Best Picture because when you and remember I studied film in in school, when you look at all the elements and what it required to actually make that film. Now they did get best cinematography. A lot of times when you get best cinematography, you still move forward with the idea of uh the film getting um best picture. It also received um best score uh and best screenplay. So when you put all those elements together, wouldn't you think that if you had the best score, the best cinematography, the best screenplay, the best actor, wouldn't that make sense then?

SPEAKER_03 12:26

It does make sense. It does make sense. I actually I think I heard that Ryan Kugler, his screenplay was the only original one as well. I mean, we we've talked about how much we love sitters and how uh it represents excellence on a couple of different fronts, but even like in considering which is why when uh Ryan uh was talking to uh Michael about doing this, he said in an interview, he said, um he actually um B.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Jordan had already called him and said, uh, I have a project. And he said, Well, I I have a project. And he said, Um, I really want you for this project. In fact, I've been I wrote this project with you in mind, and so they had to have this discussion back and forth. And uh Michael said, Okay, we'll go ahead with your project now. I'll do yours.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

And he's so glad he did. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah. I love it. Another part that I really liked about this year's Oscars was Misty Copeland, and we've talked about her um a little bit as well on this podcast, but the fact that she was recovering from hip surgery and got out there and delivered a gorgeous performance. She is just so impressive on an ongoing basis and is really honest about where her body is and kind of what it took to get back into shape to even perform in the way that she did after a whole hip surgery, which is not a small surgery. I just I didn't want to talk about the Oscars without giving her a shout-out as well.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

She looked beautiful, the red outfit that she had on was magnificent in addition to her her movements and the fact she was making a statement, a statement about that black excellence in the ballet arena. And it was uh a celebration on on many levels, and the audience just loved it.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

I mean, how could they not? Well even Timothy Salamane.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Yeah, I don't know if he loved it or not, but well, I I like he was he was smiling, and the camera went to him and she was performing, and so you know the subtlety was there, but also the direct message was there as well. Always delivered. I know, I know. Um, a lot of comments about Tiana uh Taylor, uh yeah, her being uh up for her first Oscar as best supporting actress. She didn't win, but she was very gracious, very excited for all of the other people who who did win, uh, so much so that she got a lot of pushback. Can you believe that? Because of her over enthusiasm.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

There's I don't I don't like that. Like, and I she was also really eloquent and direct, and I think right in her response to that. She was like, a part of my joy and a part of my success is celebrating the success of others.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

I I believe that she was genuinely excited for for others. The the comment that had to do with her um having her film director in a headlock when they were going up um on stage, some people felt was just a bit much. But I mean Who did you think? I thought she was enthusiastic. I thought it I thought it was kind of funny personally because you know you you're so excited, you know, you're into the moment. And when you're in the moment, you have the relationship. Like he was obviously I'm like, and if he likes it, I love it. Well, how about that? Yeah, you know, it's two of them, so yeah. Uh but just some real special moments too um at at the Oscars. And um, the moment where they recognized um Rob Reiner and uh he and his his wife, and that was well done. There was a tribute, um, also where there was uh for Robert Redford, and um there was a special moment where you had a chance to not only see all the different movies that he had been in, just a lot of really special moments.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Um back to Tiana Taylor, just real quick, because I feel like we saw this at the NAACP Awards as well, the vast celebration and uh lifting up of people when they win. And I felt like her display was so kind of on target and authentic, as we were saying, but also that is how we celebrate our people. And when I say our people, I'm not just talking about our people racially, but like our people, our tribe, like like our friends, regardless of race, you know, or or gender or what that that is that is how we celebrate you, and we are we know what it takes to win. And so I I think um that she had a couple of stories come out about her um at the Oscars, which I also thought was um people were just kind of reaching for things um because she sh there was also an issue where a security guard shoved her and she was like, don't shove touched her inappropriately, I think is what no they were shoving her.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

I think that that was the the feeling. So it it was like, you know, you don't have don't put your hands on it. Yeah, don't touch me. Exactly. So that that's uh and she took offense, which I think she should have. Absolutely, but then people of course commented about that.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

So Tiana Taylor, keep doing you, keep doing you, yeah. Yeah, yes, it was um so another thing at the Oscars that caught my eye was Chase Infinity and her excellent hairstyle um and very relatable hairstyle. Wait a minute. I thought you said you didn't watch the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

I didn't, I watched key clips and I watched the whole thing. You watch it. I do. Well I did. So she looked stunning and magnificent, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

I'm sorry. There were some commentators that were like, her hair looks unkept. And I was like, say what now? And they were referring to the fact that she was wearing braids, and she was wearing uh Bohemian braids, um, and which are the micro braids that that um that but then you have leva out in and it has a little wave. Yep. Yeah, it is gorgeous and a master. Look, she looked per like perfection, and I just I am irritated by the continued criticism of black women and their hair.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

You're irritated, and a lot of black people on social media. I even saw some comments from black men who were irritated uh in talking about why they are even commenting about black hair.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

If you don't know, because if you knew what you were talking about, then you wouldn't have called it unkept. And in 2026, there is no reason not to know.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

This made me think about the many, many people throughout life that I've had to explain my hair, my hair texture, my hairstyle, my hair choices at different times in my life. Really? Like give me an example. Well, because I'll I'll I'll I'll start um from the standpoint of my college roommate, uh, my freshman year in college, who I had washed my hair. That's right, you went to a PWI. I did. I did. Very good paper HBC. Well, I was just surprised. I mean, I was very surprised that um I, you know, come out of the shower and I have a towel around my uh my hair, and um so I take the towel off and I'm combing, and she goes, What happened to your hair? Oh and I'm thinking, why are you asking me what happened to my hair? And of course, as you know, our hair, when we wash it, then it it puffs up into what's natural at that moment. And so uh I had to have an an explanation, or I I didn't have to, I gave her an explanation. You took the time.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

I did and and kind of explained about texture. And she goes, Wow, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

So that began the whole series throughout life of being able to explain. And then if you decide at some point to straighten your hair, or if you decide at some point that you're going to have braids, or if you you anyone who's observing you, and you know, white people many times observe black people. Yeah, they all have attention. They do they do. Um, there's always the conversation. And and brothers have to deal with it too sometimes in terms of their haircuts and their afros and the you know, the the uh different kind of styles that they have.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

And well, there's whole legislation that we as black women have to have that has not even been passed in all 50 states or federally to adjust the not just microaggressions but macro aggressions and repercussions of us just showing up with our hair natural.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Black hair and black hairstyles uh not only are a part of our our culture, our artistry, and our individuality, but it's uniquely who we are. And we shouldn't have to explain it to anyone. I mean, if I had to go back all the way back to that freshman year, I would say you can go read a book. Make up a book about it. Exactly. I don't have to explain this. Now I did, you know, at that point. But I I just think that it's a part of our celebration. Our crowns really sit on our head in the way that I think we have to celebrate our uniqueness and our individuality. And it should allow us to be able to do what it is. That we want to do. To your point about the legislation, there has been the discussion of what's appropriate in the work world or in the workforce or in certain offices and certain companies. And that's why there needed to be, unfortunately, I think a statement made about allow us to be who we are and don't decide to judge or not give someone a position or promote someone in the work environment or make comments about someone's hair or hairstyle that's inappropriate.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

I feel like we have stories about this for days. One of the things that it brought up for me is several years ago when I was still working in corporate, I was meeting um the global CEO of the company that I was working for. And actually I'll be super specific. I was working at Heineken and I was being meeting um the global CEO of Heineken, and it was the first time that a woman was in that position. Okay. And so we meet, and she was not of US heritage. I can't remember what type of European she was. Maybe she was German, maybe she was, I don't know. Um, but the first thing she did was grab my hair. Like I walk up and she was like, Oh my gosh. What do you mean, grab your hair? She was like, first of all, she said, Oh my gosh, look at you. And she grabbed like the two sides of my hair and went like this. And I could see my boss, my boss who knew me very well. I know he was like, Oh, nautica, please do not have any grace growing at you. Don't say anything. Okay. Yeah, because I'm sure I gave him like a slanted eye, and I was like, um, I how could that possibly be acceptable? Well, it wasn't. I knew immediately that she clearly didn't know any better. And again, I'm coming from a US perspective. I mean, please don't go around, please stop touching black women's hair. Actually, couldn't I just make a rubber second? Yeah, unless invited, but otherwise, but um maybe they should have added that into the legislation. You know what I mean? No, no touching and feeling. So no touching and feeling, and you know, just uh, but anyway, that's what that comment reminded me. The comment from the commentator on on Chase reminded me of some of the experiences I had when I was still working in a in-house. I was still working in-house at a corporation.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Touching, feeling other people's hair. That that sounds not only inappropriate, but that could be a maybe something for a lawsuit.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Yeah, maybe like when you're yes, uh, as a general rule of management, maybe on your first interaction, don't don't touch immediately. Maybe say hi first. Some type of I don't know. I do not know what compel this woman to come up to me and grab me. Right. By the hair.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Grab you by the hair. Yes. So and do you remember now exactly what your next reaction was as you're looking at your boss now who's trying to calm, calm you down a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

Um, I think I stepped away from her and just said Don't touch me. No, I think I probably had a, I think I was like, you know, for those of the move out of my space. Yes, I moved out of my move. Yes, I moved her out of my space with my hair and then just kind of thank you, thanked her for the compliment and kept it moving. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Um those kinds of aggressive acts um from anybody um is something that's unacceptable, but also just knowing that people do that kind of thing, even today, even in 2026, some people feel it's still appropriate or still okay or still acceptable. And it's not. I can remember when you were a little girl that uh because you had these long braids that were naturally your braids because you had very long thick hair. So much fun for you to try to navigate with. Well, that's the and you were very tender-headed, and so we had that particular problem. Yeah, yes, yes. And you had a lot of drama in terms of when I was trying to comb your hair.

SPEAKER_03 26:14

So that's another story, but uh I just feel like there's daughters out there that can relate to me. I don't, you know, we don't appreciate the the microaggression of tenderheadedness of being called tenderheaded.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Let me just tell you, chat, it was not easy. It was not easy. I was trying to be gentle, and uh your grandmother would say, don't hurt her. And I thought, I'm not hurting her. I am I'm just just she has to have her hair combed. Yes, her hair definitely has to be combed. But to to that point, um, I wanted you to to understand that this was something that was beautiful about you. And so as I'm trying to not only make sure I'm combing your hair and or brushing your hair, I didn't want to make it a traumatic experience for you. And yet, now, as I said, you were a bit dramatic and you were overplaying this situation. And I know that it can hurt, it did hurt, you know. Oh, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

It did hurt.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

I I think I used all the products and everything I was supposed to to make it kind of easy for you. But my point is that that experience needs to be one of uh love and acceptance of yourself because if it's a childhood experience that is a traumatic one, then it just carries on throughout your life.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Yeah, that's a really good point. And we have several experiences with braids in particular. I mean, there's I mean, I wore my hair in and out of braids for years and years and years, particularly when I would travel overseas for extended periods of time because I didn't want to have to go through trying to find a black hair stylist in Australia or in the various countries in Europe or in Asia. Right. I was like, okay, let me just get these micro, micro braids. Yes, and um, you know, thug it out for those last, that last fourth month. They start to get a little fuzzy and then address it when I'm back in the US. So people I I trust. Um, but it's a whole consideration.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Well, it is, but I mean, I go all the way back to the the straightening comb. And so when I was a little girl, we had to excuse me, have our hair straightened with the straightening comb if we stove on the stove. And so uh my grandmother did it and my mother did it, and I can just remember that that smell sitting in the kitchen and having your hair straightened, and it was only for special occasions. So Easter Sunday, um, we would uh have our hair straightened, or if it was a birthday or a special, special occasion. So I know black women have had this kind of uh lifelong relationship and experience, but we have gotten to a point now where we accept the beauty and the natural, uh, the natural hair choices that we've made. So if you choose to have your hair straightened or you choose to have a prone, a perm, uh whatever it is, wear a natural spray or wear braid. So we got options. Yes, we do, or wear a wig or decide to wear a weave. I mean, you have all kinds of options, yeah. So embrace your beauty, embrace your individuality, and do what's you that's easy for you. Yeah, because it takes a lot of time to be able to do our hair, whatever we choose to do.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

It takes a lot of time. Yeah, and continue to advocate for yourself, um, and on behalf of your sisters as well, because it's still a fight. And your daughters, yeah, that's right. And you believe that with the next generation and the daughters, and the daughters. Yeah, so make the experience a positive one for young people. Well, Chase Affinity got an outpouring of love um based on some of that commentary. And so I love that for her. She's obviously a very, very talented actress who's gonna go very far in her career. Um, and uh I I love that display of sisterhood coming around her when something about her hair uh was pointed out that was racist um and rude and insensitive and not not rooted in facts and data. She looked fabulous.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

She's perfect. Yes. Not only her hair, but her her dress and just her whole presence. Uh, she had a lot of grace and style.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

So yeah, and anything less than that being her feedback, we don't accept.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Interesting when you say we don't accept that uh reminds me also of the big story with uh the Oprah interview this uh this week. Um based upon the Kiss Cam incident that took place at the Cole Play concert.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

Did you did you remember the end?

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Okay, so you and I I remember seeing it, I remember seeing it actually on uh program, maybe Inside Edition or something. It was everywhere, and well, and but my thought was why are they that's the thing? Yeah, why are they showing this? And then it began to blow up and blow up, but now here we are many, many months later, and we're still talking about it. And Oprah did an entire podcast show.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

Well, I don't think we were talking about it. I think it had blown over, and then Oprah does his podcast, and people are like, now what?

SPEAKER_02 31:29

What happened? Um, there was a New York Times article that the uh the woman Kristen uh yeah, I think Kristen Polbert something, yeah. Um she decided to tell her side of the story. She indicated that early on she was told to just just be quiet, just and it'll pass. It'll pass in the future. And they said, you know, just just uh just lay back and not say anything, and this situation will pass. But it didn't. It didn't.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

Oprah indicated that um I think there are like what 800 billion people in the world, and this was shown so 800 eight billion people on the planet, and this clip was seen 300 billion times. Three hundred billion times. And that's only taking into consideration the traditional media hits. That's not even taking into consideration all the social media that was around it. So that was strictly really digital and traditional media, not specifically social media, which as we know, that's probably how we initially heard about this. And so it's um yeah, it it blew up in all types of different ways. What did you think about her making Oprah making the decision to do this interview? Uh well, for those who may not be familiar with I can't. I guess you're not one of those 300 billion plus that watched it over and over again.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Um the woman that we are talking about um was head of um HR for the company that she worked for, and she was caught on camera with her boss. This is like something as a sitcom from the nature of the role. He is the CEO of this uh major tech company, and they were at a public concert, a coplay concert, and he was embracing her, and the kiss cam, the camera came up, and and what the kiss cam is, it it um it highlights different couples throughout the audience and wants you to then have a um a smooch, if you will, on camera. And but when the camera hit the two of them, um she immediately turned around and he ducked. And so his reaction, the commentator then said, Oh my goodness, uh there must be something going on here. Um maybe he's not supposed to be here, or maybe they're having an affair, making a joke, not knowing that that was the case. So there began the this story then blowing up for weeks and weeks and weeks.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

Well, a part of a part of it blowing up and a part of what she talked about in this interview, Kristen, was that it for based on her definition, it wasn't an affair because she um was separated from her husband, and she thought that the CEO was separated from his wife. He told her. Right. So I'd say I guess it wasn't affair, but she from from her perspective, she didn't realize he told her that he was separated. He was separated and and that's what they according to her, that's what they were connecting on because she was really obviously devastated and working through that separation. He was like, Oh, I, you know, I am too. And that's how they started to grow their relationship beyond um the professional relationship.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

They realized at some point that they were going to have to reveal their relationship to their bosses, to um the board of directors, and they had decided that it was going to be at an appropriate time that they were going to talk about it as their feelings began to grow. That's the way she explained herself. So your question was, why talk about it now?

SPEAKER_03 35:33

And so because I'm sorry, why did it Oprah? Not why does this woman want to talk about it? Oh no. Yes. Uh, because she did explain. I mean, we could we can mention that on here, but I I was curious to get your perspective, like uh for from Oprah, you know, because that that's a decision for Oprah to not only make the choice to interview this woman, but then to take the stance that I know we're gonna dig into a little bit here of the sympathetic victim.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

So the reason why Oprah said she uh talked to her when she was approached about doing this particular interview is because she realized that we were all all women, females, and maybe men too, were very much judging this woman and the truth was not known. I mean, I didn't know that she was separated from her husband. Um, most people didn't know that she was separated from her husband, and that the man that she was her her her boss was also separated. So the assumptions were made that this woman was having an affair and that people were judging her, saying that she slept her way to the top and that this was so inappropriate. Yes, it was inappropriate in terms of her dating her boss, but the fact of the matter is that they were at that point two individuals who were basically single deciding to come together. Oprah said that side of the story was not known. And she admitted that she was in judgment and she had talked to Gail was actually on the podcast, in the audience of the podcast, and she had Gail to make some comments because Gail had been through a situation where Gail's ex-husband had had an affair, and it was very public in terms of Gail then getting a divorce, and and that feeling of the whatever the other woman, whoever the other woman is, um, actually impacting your life, your children, your circumstance.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

Yeah, I mean, I know that they this they talked about the fact they think that's one of the reasons that this blew up the way that it did was because of the emotion that it invoked, particularly in women who might have been in similar situations. And so then to watch that play out, um you do kind of operate in judgment. My actually had several issues.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

So then let me also say that that um there were death threats to uh to Kristen uh to her, to her family, her kids. Um, her life changed dramatically from that point forward. And so she felt that her own personal safety was uh no longer uh something that she could be comfortable with, and she felt that she was judged in her mind misjudged. She said, I made a mistake. I made a mistake, and um certainly I should not have been dating my boss until we were both divorced. Um, and then we should have revealed to the people that we worked with that um this was going on. And she said they had a plan. The plan was for her to then in her job be placed under someone else that she wouldn't have been reporting directly to her boss. Now, I I'm listening to all of that, and I'm thinking if you went through all that working on the plan and working on what to say and and all of this, you probably then knew that not only was this not appropriate, but you should have acted on it immediately and not waited. So I had a problem with with the timing of the city. So it's a timing was it's like not great.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

No, I mean you're you're just and it was a choice. Yes, because before you activated the plan, you chose to be out publicly. Right. And then I also didn't get a good sense of exactly where they were at the concert. I mean, I know she tried to describe it, but then when I looked back at the clip, I thought that that they were like in a box and there were some other people from the company that were in that box too. But that's not how she described it. She was like, no, we were in like a public place. So I was like, did the folks in your company actually know or not know? Because some of her direct reports were actually in the clip. And so she didn't talk about that piece that much. And I was like, I don't, it it impacted her credibility to me a little bit. Um, just because I had I didn't have the opportunity to ask my questions. But I was like, I don't know if that's what I may maybe we could get her on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

What about I think she said this is gonna be her only interview. She promised Oprah that this would be the one and only interview. So we'll see.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

We'll see. But I I don't yeah, it's um so that is one thing that gave me pause. Also, I I totally understand that people make mistakes, but when you make a mistake, you do not get to dictate the reaction from others. And a part of why I think Oprah had tears in her eyes, I mean that to me it was dramatic.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

It was a whole thing. I'll admit yes. Um I didn't understand the Oprah having tears in her eyes. I mean, I really didn't. That that surprised me. Uh and then I will I will say this.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

Um when I realized that Gail was having a reaction to that's when I I I felt Oh, that's probably what triggered the most what I was thinking were the and so I mean yeah, I know, I know, because I I I thought, wow, but um, and yeah, so it's my perspective that when you do make a mistake that um causes harm, that you don't get to dictate the reaction. And now, do I think that death threats and um all these other things that happened to her um was in good correlation to the mistake made? I mean, I don't I think death threats is a little much, you know. Like I don't but but also I I'm not the one that's the judge of that. If you go out publicly and you do what it is she chose to do with her boss, then you just you don't know. But you have to take that into consideration. You have to be able to take that into consideration.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

I agree with you. I believe that um it wasn't just she was describing it as a mistake, this was a decision that she made. Yeah. Head of HR. Head of HR. So you when you're head of HR, you you know better and you know what the repercussions are and the ramifications of your particular um activity. Let me say that. But the fact of the matter is they didn't take care of the problem, the situation, the decision making on the front end quickly. They waited. And they could have. And they could have. I mean, you got the CEO, and it's a bad judgment. That's bad. I mean, bad judgment.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

There were multiple mistakes.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Yeah, bad judgment on his part, bad judgment uh on her part. And so there was, I I I agree with you, the the reaction. She seemed to be in her comments on the Oprah um podcast, she seemed to be so upset because of what women had said about her.

SPEAKER_03 43:04

And 98% of the backlash came from other women. 98%.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

And that's because other women understand that feeling when somebody has actually been involved with their man or their situation or the broken home. I mean, that that's why I'm both that emotion that we were talking about.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Yes, absolutely. Um, yeah, she said that, yeah. So 98% of the backlash came from other women. She also said that she thinks a part of the backlash was the way that she looked, uh, being blonde. Um, and she said that a part of the backlash, she gave um the CEO quite a bit of heat as well. They no longer speak at all. But she was like, he knew the truth, and he was in more of a position of power. And he could have he could have set the record straight and he chose not to and not to say anything. And the company um got rid of him, but he's already working at another company or already has like a bunch of offers that he's considering, and she didn't think that she could remain at the company. I think that was a good choice. Um I think it was a good choice as well. Uh but the but someone asked, did they want to keep her?

SPEAKER_02 44:18

And she said yes. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

I was like, yay for good decisions as we go through um the scenario. But she was like, but now it's it's been really, really, really difficult for me to find another job.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

At the level that uh that that she had employment.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

I I believe that you wouldn't think about that. I know lots of relationships start at work. Um but I just high percentage of relationships started work. You know, I actually had a conversation with a boss of mine um about this because I do not know how this conversation came up, but he was telling me that he met his uh wife at work. Really? Mm-hmm. And I was like, How tell me more, sir. Right. And he was like, Yeah, I mean, I just really pursued her, and I was like, Oh, right. And me and my bosses usually have good relationships, which is why I'm there in the first place. Um, and so uh I was like, You ever let a boss hit on you? I'm sorry. Um, not a boss, no. Okay. Um, and uh so I I was able to ask him, I was like, what do you mean you pursued a woman in the workplace? Right, right. Because I don't think, and I might not be remembering this totally correctly, I think he was probably in a higher position um than she was. I can't remember if they were direct reports or or whatever. Um, but the as he described his behavior, I was like, sir, that's problematic. And he's like, it worked out. And I was like, I mean, yes, because you guys are now married with and all the thing, but also like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

And you know that no, no, no, no, no um scenario is a part of what we had in our employee manual at my company, but also every specific staff meeting, I would go through what the inappropriateness was because what I indicated to my staff is that if you have these kinds of inappropriate relationships in our small environment, people will spend more time talking about what you're doing and what you're not doing and how it impacts our business and your lives and then all the speculation, and we can't afford that. Our company cannot afford that because of who we are and the work that needs to be done. You can't afford the mess. That's exactly right. We can't we can't afford the mess. Yeah. And so we would we would go through that and talk about that. Now, did it happen? Of course it did. Did people try to keep it from me? Of course it did. I mean, you know, and then when I'd find out, then I'd have to bring one person in and bring the other person in. But I I'm saying to you that it's important for people to understand that the decisions that they make have great impact on others around them.

SPEAKER_03 47:10

Yeah, and it's it's it is just risky um to engage that behavior at work. And I know we all spend so much time in a workplace, and that's part of the rationale for this happening, um, but also just like cal calculate the risk. I also just want to say another thing real, real quick, that I think is important and a part of my experience. You asked me had a boss ever hit on me, and I said no, but it took me back to when I worked on the hill. And I'm getting to Washington, DC for the first time. I have a new job on Capitol Hill. I don't know what I don't know, and so everything's brand new. And I had women who were oftentimes just meeting me for the first time. They eventually became mentors and colleagues, sure, sponsors and things. Right. Yeah. Uh, but they looked out for me. They were very much like, okay, take this or look into this opportunity in this office. Do not under any circumstance go to that particular congressional office because he either has bad behavior or the chief of staff has bad behavior. Um, I mean, I had women really kind of, I feel like, cocooning around me and then in this amazing way that protected me from some of the nonsense that I know so many young congressional staffers have to end up dealing with. And so I just I want to say that for the women who are in positions of power and senior leadership. Look also out for the young junior folks who are on your staff or in your company. But sometimes they don't know. You all remember what it's like to be young and in our 20s, and you don't know. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

Um, and these men can be wild. Um, men can be wild, and women also can periodically decide to make those bad decisions, and then it impacts them in for the rest of their life.

SPEAKER_03 48:57

For the rest of their life. As um Kristen pointed out, this other guy, he's got another job. Right. She's now trying to figure out how to how to make it work with her.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

Yeah, navigate her her her life. It reminds me of a of a circumstance uh and and I shared what the the policy was in in the office, but um my attorney said you can't stop that, you know. But the company attorney, you cannot stop that. But I have a situation where um a supervisor and a particular employee were having uh a relationship. Okay um and how I found out about it was that um I believe that well, I know that um the fiance of the woman So it wasn't a fair. Uh well, yes, um, that's what we believe. Um, but we had to have the EEOC come in and and um have some conversations um with us because what the woman Equal Opportunity Um I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

SPEAKER_03 50:01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

EEOC, that's what um they they came in to do an investigation because the woman ended up indicating that um the um man had uh approached her inappropriately, and so um this is breaking, of course, all the rules and regulations. Um and so we're going into our own internal investigation. Uh EEOC is coming in to have their investigation, and then all of a sudden the company gets a uh a lawsuit, and so we hire um uh our attorney to to now address this. And what was most interesting in that circumstance uh is the the uh employee, two employees, um, had a good relationship that people knew about. They have worked late several times uh at the company, and we have this this procedure where you sign in and you sign uh out uh when you leave so that we know exactly who's in the building. Sure. Because we're a 24-hour business being a radio station. And so um the uh evening when this particular incident was supposed to have occurred, she signed herself out, she signed him out, they go down the elevator together, there's a guard in the building, and the guard sees the two of them, says goodnight, and they leave. Now, if there was something inappropriate that took place, I was supposed to be called as well as the department head was supposed to be hog. None of us heard anything, but the following week, the following week, we were then notified that this inappropriate behavior took place. So my thought in that particular circumstance was uh this is gonna cost a whole lot of money. I wonder what really happened. You don't know, you don't know, but I can't imagine if someone was inappropriately touching you or something was going on, that you would sign him out, you would sign yourself out, you would go down the elevator and you would not talk to the guard that was right there in the building.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

Right, so I mean, to your point, it's hard to know what really happened, but what I will say, and it's a one of my takeaways from what you just said, is that because we've been talking about how risky it is for women, uh, it can be risky for men as well. Yes. And the relationship might be might be fine. It's not we're not talking about when the relationship might be fine. We're talking about when something happens and when it might be ending in one way or another. Somebody gets upset about one thing or another. It's um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

It's a risky thing to do. It is a very risky thing to do. And it's also something that you have to think about not after the fact, but before you become involved in those kind of circumstances. Yes. And it can be costly.

SPEAKER_03 53:12

Yeah, absolutely. For all involved.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

You're like how many. Please can be, it can it can be costly. So so the outcome of of that particular circumstance that um that I described, uh, we decided to settle um because our attorneys indicated that if we had gone all the way through the court system, it probably would have cost us more money with legal fees than to than to settle. And the young woman was able to go ahead and marry her fiance and move forward. Oh, you stayed with her? Yeah, he stayed with her because of course what she had indicated was that Oh, that's right, that he that she was the victim in the situation.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

So we don't know.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

Yeah, we don't know. But I when you started talking about the inappropriateness and the advice. So thank you to the mentors who are encouraging young women protect yourself, but also make sure that you're giving good advice. Because anything could happen at any given time.

SPEAKER_03 54:10

That's true, that's true. I mean, and I actually have additional legal questions, but I won't I won't borrow audience with that because I that's they're not here for me to do a deep dive into that situation. Yeah, but when you brought up the policy, how is a company liable if this happened? But anyway, we've got to do all that at the company. I thought you on company too. Okay, okay, okay. Yes. Oh yeah, that that that's true. Man, okay. So that I mean, uh actually, I I'm fine that Oprah did this at it. It was I'm glad that this woman got a chance to to speak her truth um as she understands it. I also um think the stats that she offered were interesting in terms of um it being primarily women um that came after her. And as we talked about, we understand why that is. I mean, I'm not going to be hard on women in that particular situation, I don't think. So I'm just like I, you know, a woman, I think, can probably sometimes treat each other better.

SPEAKER_02 55:05

You know, I mean, generally speaking, let's just kind of do better by each other, but also, you know, don't I think that was the lesson um ultimately is that that we do need to support one another because the audience at the very end of the show uh embraced her in a way that they would not have embraced her years or or whenever it was the months, I don't remember how long ago Yeah, it's been like months, it's been months.

SPEAKER_03 55:29

What's interesting though, I so yes, in terms of the folks that they chose to highlight on the podcast, uh, and with their questions and and some of their apologies for the judgment, those folks um, I think accepted the apology. However, if you watch and you see some of the reactions in the room as the podcast is going as the interview is going on in the side eyes and the type thing. And I was like, Yeah, see, that that would have been me. So I think they highlighted the folks that accepted her apology, but it would not surprise me if many in that room walked out like kind of saying some of the same things that we're saying. Like, come on, ma'am. You do you did not, in our opinion, deserve the death threats, but you don't get to dictate what consequences come from your actions.

SPEAKER_02 56:16

And I think that's in any circumstance. That's in any circumstance. Absolutely. Yeah. So mind your business. Drink water to mind your business.

SPEAKER_03 56:27

That is so, so true. So astronomically better. Um, so that was definitely something that we paid atten paid attention to this past week. And so I know I've talked a little bit on this podcast. We've talked about our um TV consuming habits and how they differ by generation. I like to binge things. You you like to take it um more slow.

SPEAKER_02 56:52

Well, I told you binging was not something that one, I was familiar with. Well, because it probably didn't exist. No, exactly. I mean, like I said, who has the time to watch show after show after show? But today I realize that binge watching is acceptable. Are you familiar with what's going on with The Bachelorette? I've um heard about it. I have um have you heard? I have heard that um they've canceled the series, uh, the upcoming series, and it was already taped and ready to go.

SPEAKER_03 57:22

It was getting ready to premiere this past Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

But I haven't been watching The Bachelorette um for a while. Okay. So now I used to watch The Bachelor, and then we watched and we talked about the Golden Bachelor and all of that for a while. So they probably wouldn't have these uh life experience. So, you know, um, but uh the fact that they canceled a series, I mean, that's that is a big deal because there's a lot of money that goes into producing um these kinds of series, and it's a very popular series because based on what the story is, and I know you're going to share that, uh they probably get triple the the viewership now.

SPEAKER_03 58:03

Like you, I uh have not been watching The Bachelor. I pop in and out, but it it didn't capture me. I try to support the black bachelorettes with them. There's a there's been um just a few, but even I didn't make it through their series either. Uh but I was gonna watch this in part because I binge watch as soon as it drops for the past few years, the secret lives of Mormon Wives, which is where this The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

That just doesn't even sound like something that is a real reality show.

SPEAKER_03 58:40

I mean, it was very based in reality. So it was, and it's a show on Hulu that's about a group of Mormon moms, young moms. I mean, these are girls in their early 20s to mid-20s when it started now. Some of them are in their later 20s, but still 20s. Are the Mormon wives, do they have multiple husbands? No, no, no, no. So they um are all married and or divorced. Oh. Um, and I think all of them have children, plural. And again, so we're talking about girls who are 22, 23, married, married andor divorced already with multiple kids already. Okay. From from their their husbands.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

From their husbands. Okay. Yes, yes. In in my mind, it used to be that you could have more than one husband.

SPEAKER_03 59:36

I I think it's probably you probably are are saying that you thought that you could have more than one wife. I'm sorry. More than one wife.

SPEAKER_02 59:42

They've been very I'm sorry, yes, take on the more than one wife, yes, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So is that the case? So I don't know. I okay. And it's well when you said the secret lives of Mormons. I'm about to tell you why. Okay. I'll be quiet. I'll be quiet, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 59:56

That's why you probably haven't got that title. So, you know, we have our uh perceptions of what's going on in all religions, and that religion included. So what came out in these this group of young women were they blew up on TikTok because they stuck at home, their husbands were off working, their husbands were the breadwinners. They had that show, mom talk. Yeah, mom talk is a part of TikTok. Yes, they were all influencers, yes, yes, like it's now coming back to you. Yes, yes, it's coming back to you. Okay. Um, they are all very attractive young women. Okay. In part because one of the things that I've learned is that in Mormonism, um, beauty is one of the virtues. And so um you do what you can to be as beautiful as possible. So they have long hair extensions, they they do the placing. Speaking of hair at all, yeah. Speaking of a different hair journey. Okay, okay. Um, and so anyway, I think that was a part of their appeal as well. Okay. Building out this mom talk scenario. It came out that, and that's how they built their viewership and platform. It came out that some of these uh couples were swinging with each other.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:13

You know, why you're looking at me, you know, and swinging it. I I I I've I I actually I was thinking of mommy here. Do we need to play who's down? Yeah, yes, mom. I I'm sorry that your your granddaughter is talking about swinging, but okay, okay, go. Rose represents my mother. So her grandmother here. Would you like to explain explain it to both of you all?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

Okay, thank you. Because I'm sure that it existed to some degree in you all's generation, even though it wasn't all over.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:44

Okay, all right. Probably just wouldn't popularize now with mom talk and other things. Um, and so that's what really kind of blew it out of the water.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:54

Um, because there was massive backlash from the families, uh, from the church and the husbands. No, maybe well, some of the husbands were involved. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it was very swinging with each other. Yeah, they were swinging with each other. And so I think that's when Hulu was like, let me just go ahead and sit on this for a whole series. Alrighty. And so, but their leader, her name is Taylor Frankie Paul, and she was one of the ones that was involved in the swinging. She um has three kids by two different baby daddies, and uh, she was chosen to be the bachelorette for this season.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:37

These were husbands, or these were boyfriends, or the the fathers. Um husbands. Husbands. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:44

So yes, yes, married couples that were swinging with each other. It did lead to some divorces. Okay. All right. I wouldn't think so, but okay. And also makes for excellent reality TV. I guess so. Yes, yes. Um, so anyway, the choice was made by ABC to choose Taylor Frankie Paul, who she is uh um, I was I think everybody was surprised because of this background that she has. And I don't know that she has demonstrated like the best stability as well, like on the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:19

So excuse me, but the they used to take one of the bachelorettes that was not chosen in the regular bachelor series and choose that bachelorette to be then the bachelorette for their series. I is that part of the criteria now, or are they just going out and looking for bachelorettes?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:41

Um, I think this is probably a new format. Yeah, I think this is definitely a part of a new format. But also when you think about kind of where the series I don't know what the production was thinking about in terms of not just the present but the future for the franchise. Sure. Because it's very different than when you and I would have been looking at it 20 years ago where you're like And the criteria that used to be intentional and all that. Okay, so the men that would be interested in in actually being a part of it, right? What they bring to the table. Okay, all right. Thank you for bringing me up today. Okay, so anyway, um the it came out that she and didn't just come out too, which is a part of the bizarre part of this, is that a part her and her ex have ongoing domestic violence disputes. And so um, as of this taping, uh either yesterday or the day before, the video, a video was shown of her um engaging in domestic violence against her ex. And it's it was her throwing a steel chair, one of the children was in the room and screaming and crying. I mean, it was awful. And so after that was more broadly seen, uh, it's when ABC eventually ended up pulling the whole season of this year's Bachelorette. But this wasn't a new video, by the way. Like, because this behavior isn't new. Like I said, there's uh been all types of crazy wild.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:06

So you're telling me that they have they chose the bachelorette who had a history of violent activity towards either her her ex, and this history of violent activity did not keep them, the producers, from choosing her to be the bachelorette.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:26

I would say, yeah, violent activity and instability generally. Right, right. You know, um the criteria has really changed. That's really that's disturbing. No, um, I do know that because they've known about it took them a while to say we're gonna cut the whole series. They started losing sponsors. So I just think okay, that makes sense. I I mean um, but I also think that might have achieved initially what they thought it was in terms of viewership, because folks like myself, um, you know, were like, I don't really watch the bat. Oh, but if Haller Frankie Pubbles on that, I want to see this. How's this gonna play out? Um, there's also been um conversation around her and her kind of decision making based on her relationship history. And I just said a little bit about what that is. Why the Bachelorette? Some of the other cast members have gone on to have other opportunities, dancing with the stars, some have gone to um go work on Broadway with great success. Uh, and so it's just again, it's I don't know. It's something I don't I'd love actually to hear from our listeners and our viewers. Like, what are your thoughts on all of it actually?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:40

What does this say about our society today and what we are so interested in? I mean, we're sort of warriors into this dysfunctioning um household relationship. And why would we even care? Why would we be interested? I too would like to hear the comments uh from our listeners and and viewers because I'm not understanding why this would be something that the producers of the ABC series would even think would be an appropriate show today. I mean, I know reality TV is uh a bit extreme, and I know that they like to have a lot of drama, but this just seems sort of inappropriate in terms of how you would go about choosing individuals that other men would want to be married to.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:29

Unless some questions about the actual and the man that ended up winning or getting chosen, which we'll never see. They aren't together um now. Anyway, but that's really it. I mean, the man that she chose, yeah. They're not together now, and the series hasn't even hit the air yet. Correct. Okay. Um, but that was like but uh in terms of appropriateness, I don't know if appropriateness is a part of the of the factor. I mean, we we did a whole show around America's next top model and kind and some of our shock about went on behind the scenes. And so to kind of tap into that mentality about what's required in today's time and the entertainment value to have to continue to be able to make money and have that shock value, it had to be a part of what was driving this because otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:18

It doesn't make any sense. Um, it also I think really challenges what is acceptable today in terms of not only appropriate television, maybe anything goes. I'm talking about network television because there are different criteria, and some people don't understand that they see it all together, but anything can go on on streaming, and uh cable television is not um it's not regulated just like broadcast um television is. Broadcast television has to adhere to standards, rules, and regulations by the FCC, one of my highly regulatory communications commission. However, the cable industry as well as the streaming industry does not have to have those kind of standards, which is probably why the broadcast industry has now um tried to do some, I guess, maybe some extremes in terms of competitive. Yes. Uh, but they still can't they can't do what you can do on cable. You can see anything on payable and and streamy. So it's one one must turn it off, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:24

Yeah, I mean it's um I I the quality I wasn't going to watch for for the quality and the excitement about being able to watch a love journey because I'd that is no longer to me what the bachelor and bachelorette represent. I was going to tune in because I had some knowledge of the bachelorette and because I was curious about the drama of it all. And I actually recently went down a social media thread that talked about this in terms of like who's really watching, by the way. It spans the spectrum in terms of who's watching this. But kind of high achieving career women um are definitely a large part of the demographic that likes watching reality TV. And so we there was discussion about kind of why that is. And um and I also feel like I was like, I feel like I've had this conversation with you as you asked me, like, Donica, why do you watch this mess?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:18

Uh that's exactly what I say. And and how do you have the time and what do you get from it? But I I mean, I understand it's escapism.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:29

Yeah, that's part of it. According to this particular thread, it's the fact that we don't want the drama in our lives and that we're dealing with enough on one side. And so the ability to kind of lean back, relax, and be entertained with things that never even come into our universe or into our world. Yes, thank goodness. Yes. Um, but you know, you can just lay back around and the drama can be outside and it's not in here.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:55

I I understand that in terms of entertainment some somewhat. It's just that watching people's lives, tragic lives in some instances, um, be destroyed on camera, I think would be very challenging. You're talking about the the woman, what was her name? Taylor Taylor Frankie Paul. Taylor Frankie Paul. Fantastic name, by the way. Yeah, that's good. But but throwing uh throwing stools and her children watching this, all of that to me would be uh devastating and it would be so disruptive to the future of this family and the family dynamics.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:30

Yes, I don't know that there was great realization, at least for me, in terms of the damage that was being done. I think we're watching a version of it in real time with her. But you're right. I was watching for the entertainment. I don't know that I was like, oh, by her doing these types of, let me take her out of it, but by these people engaging in these types of shows, it's going to destroy their lives. I don't think I had that realization. I just thought that, oh, these are people that now have a TV show. Sure. And the they are apparently are entertaining enough to be picked up by a by a network of some sort. Uh, let me see what's actually interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:07

So you teased me about um watching my umce upon a time and they live heavily happily with everyone. That's also an excellent show. Happily ever. You remember that? Yeah. Yes. Well, I I I think it's it's the reality of um of life and the fantasy of life. It's being able to, I think, move into the storytelling. It's it's kind of like the whole fairy tale scenario in some of the older versions of reality TV. When you think about what the bachelor would first, I I think was designed to do. It was to have your Prince Charming and you can, um, he's going to choose you and I'm sorry. I said it's degradated from that. Yes, it it absolutely is. So um, but I guess we'll have to see what the next version of this is and how ABC really how they handle the backlash that they're going to get from pulling pulling the series uh and or their decision making.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:08

Yeah, it actually reminds me of one of those quotes, and I know I'm gonna get it a little wrong, but it's like I think this is why reality TV became a thing, because it's like reality is stranger than fiction. When you look at some of these shows, it's like I couldn't even make this, I couldn't even make this stuff up. Like Are you kidding me? Right. Uh, but then to your point about who's actually being represented on these shows, and they it does appear that there is um a plethora of more vulnerable populations being exploited. Uh, and there's a more and more realization around it versus what I knew back then. I think I know more now, and I'm like, oh, um, that's probably not great.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:47

So I guess we probably need to say stay tuned and we'll see what happens in the foreseeable future. But uh I liked your definition of the fact of why you now watch these shows because you're seeing something that would never be hopefully a part of your life, and um, and you're just being somewhat entertained by this the circumstance.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:14

Yes, I'm I'm entertained by it, and also I mean, well as we discussed this um last time, how big I am on contracts. Yes. The contracts that I know that these folks have to sign, and I was like, they unless you are an executive producer and have some control over your own story, it's a very uh risky, again, I think we're talking about like risky behavior, it's a risky thing to do, to just be like, I'm gonna live my life with this group of people, and then you take whatever story you think is gonna sell the best to make it a thing. It's uh I that is why I think a lot of people are now in situations they are, their lives are destroyed in a different type of way.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:56

And they have not had an opportunity to think through the ramifications for not only their lives, but their family lives, their children's lives, and how that impacts the foreseeable future. You may want to be a star for a moment, but there are repercussions to allowing someone to be with you, a camera to be in your environment 24-7, as well as being required to have that extra drama that they like to see, those who are producing these kinds of shows. So just be careful about the decisions that you make and how you go about it, because the grass is not always greener on the other side. And your your own personal life is your own personal life. The decisions you make today can have great impact in your future.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:45

We uh we've talked a lot about what we've been seeing and hearing, but you know, we also uh live a lot of life on the ground, if you will, beyond the screens. Uh, what have you been up to this week?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:00

Well, I've had an opportunity uh to do a lot of self-reflection. Um, and I I shared with you that I was listening to some music that um was very meaningful to me uh in in terms of just being able to prepare a presentation. And the music that I was listening to brought to mind. Um, my my dear sister friend who passed away a year and a half ago, and so had some emotional moments. Uh, it's the real life.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:30

That real life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:32

Yeah, but it made me think a lot about uh love and friendship and um the value that women bring to your life and special relationships and how it is so important to take the time to be able to just uh nurture those relationships and tell people that you love that you love them. Yeah, so that uh I spent a lot of time with that. Um, also been doing some of my volunteer work and meeting some new and different people with some exciting projects. Uh we um had an opportunity to go to a woman's luncheon that we're going to be uh working together on a project in the foreseeable future. So it's it's been a busy week, but it's been a it's been an okay week.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:12

It's been an okay week. Um what about you? Well, last tonight uh my husband and I went to go see DL Hugley. Oh, DL. Yeah. I've met him. Oh, yeah. What was that experience like? Uh oh, he's funny. He's a he is funny. He's still funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:28

I don't know what you met him, but he's I met him years and years ago. Um, we used to have a comedy club here locally called Jokers, and the comedians would come to the comedy club, and then um before their performances, a lot of times they would come into the radio station, and so the DJs would bring them down to meet the president and general manager, and so um, and they would be really cool. There's uh another part to that though, because then if I go to the comedy show that night or the next night, you know that if you're sitting up front, what's gonna happen?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:00

Oh, yeah, you're gonna get called out.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:01

Oh yeah, I'm sure you got called out all the time. I got called out, but your dad got called out too. Yeah. Oh, you're here with the big boss, uh-huh. I bet she's a boss at home too. And you make all kinds of comments and everything. So did he know it was the floor or just dependent on the night? It depended on the night, you know. Well, a lot of times, and you remember your dad, the the engineering side, sometimes it would take him a moment to kind of catch him with the moment.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:25

But anyway, how was the show? It was it was good, it was it was funny, and I was I'm always a little skeptical about comedy shows, even with folks, even with acts that you know, I was just I was hoping that it would be worth my time.

unknown 1:18:38

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:39

As I do it, hang up right. Well, it was okay, yes. I enjoyed it, uh, met some cool people, my husband enjoyed it as well. And we were back home by 9 30, which thrilled me. Donica, what time did this show? The show was at seven. Oh, yeah. So it was also time appropriate for me. It's not like me trying to go to a 9 30 or 10 o'clock show and okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:03

Back home by 9 30.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:05

Right up my alley.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:06

How about that? Yeah, yeah. That's good. So your recommendation is if you have time, go see a comedy show and laugh a little.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:12

Yeah, go see a comedy show and laugh a little. Um, yeah, Dale Hughley, if if he's coming to uh a city near you, um, he's funny and remains funny and his act is funny. There's actually another upcoming comedy show here in the next few weeks or next few months. I don't know if I'm gonna go to that one though. It's Cat Williams, who's from our hometown. He is, he's from here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:36

Oh, I haven't seen him in a long, long time. Oh my goodness. Uh he's gotten quite a bit of press uh recently too. He's never been out here. He's been pretty controversial, so he's funny too.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:47

He is funny. I just uh yeah, I I'm on the fence about going to that. This this particular club is a smaller club, and he's playing in more of a stadium. And so um I I just we'll see what time it starts.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:03

It's been a while since I've been to a comedy uh show. I think the last time was one that we went to that you all took me to. Uh oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:11

It was with um oh, I shouldn't even like try to get the the first name's Dion.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:16

Yes. You had mentioned him, I think before or so. But anyway, I think the the bottom line here is laughter is good for the heart, good for the soul, good for the spirit. So, and because of all the things going on in the world today, if you have a moment that you can take and go to one of the comedy shows or watch some good TV or do what it is that you need to do for a little bit of relaxation.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:38

Uh so continue to live a life you love, and we will see you next week. Take care. Thank you. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:58

She's got wisdom, she's got deck, she's got questions, she's got that, the voice is gonna lie, like with the comment That's the key for the