The One About Taylor Swift

 summary

Join us as we explore the world of fandoms, focusing on Taylor Swift's career, her impact on fans, and the passion that fuels her community. Kelly, a dedicated fangirl, and our resident Swiftie, shares insights, favorite albums, and the magic behind her connection to Taylor's music. Join us as we explore Taylor Swift's songwriting mastery, iconic albums, and the dream of a Broadway musical. Becky, Amber, and special guest Kelly dive deep into the lore, lyrics, and cultural impact of Taylor Swift's music, sharing personal stories, favorite songs, and future hopes.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Well, hello everyone, and welcome. Welcome back to your new favorite podcast, Fangirls of a Certain Age. It's me, Amber, and joined with me, as always, of course, is Miss Becky. Hi, everybody. And boy, do we have a really big surprise for you because Becky and myself, we are not alone. That's right. We have a very special guest joining us for this very special episode of the pod. It is the one, the only, the infamous. You all know her, you all love her. You hear her mentioned in every single fangirl episode. Fangirl Kelly is here. Hoorah!

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_05 1:13

Oh God, we're so happy you're here. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

I want to say, aside from Milo, like the unofficial mascot of our body.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

A thousand percent. A thousand percent. I'm just your number one fan. Oh I listen to every episode. Every episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

She does. She sends me text messages and she uh her the Bridgerton, she was very upset about Bridgerton.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

Was it something I said? Was I too spicy for it?

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Amber, Amber, it's never you're telling me and I'm never you. But it's with love. It's all with love. It's just that my my reaction, I just need to live tweet, you know? It's like it's like when you're live tweeting or on a word show or something, it's immediate reactions and it's it's sharp and it's it's eccentric. Yeah. That's the way I would describe it.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

We need like a chat going next to this. Yeah, you it it might be it might be uh healthier. I think it it's it's worth mentioning at the top of the episode uh that Kelly is a very passionate fangirl, and uh she just like us really holds on to her favorite fandoms and she loves them so so deeply, and she has put a lot of thought and a lot of investment into them. So any opinions that Kelly has, she will go to court with them and she will have receipts ready to go.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

So And I'm gonna say right off the top no slander on the summer I turn pretty or else I'll see me turn red. Nothing.

unknown 2:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

The only time that I ever spoke ill of uh the summer I turned pretty was when Kelly was not there to defend herself.

SPEAKER_04 3:10

Uh and I believe I said to you, I turned it off, I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

So it's okay. Okay. All right. So we are so happy that Kelly is here, uh, and this is exactly why. Um because this week's episode, we are talking about something that myself and Becky are both fans of. But I wouldn't, and Becky, I won't speak for you, but I wouldn't consider myself like a diehard, bona fide fangirl of this fandom, but I am on the scale. Um, and that is the one and only, the incomparable Diva herself, Taylor Swift. We are talking about Taylor Swift tonight. And so we will get into that shortly, but like we always do, we have to start the episode with our fangirl 50. And because we have such a beautiful guest on, we're gonna let her go first.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

So, my initial thing, I came in, oh, I'm gonna talk about the Arple Dodger. However, Becky already called it out and loved it, and I'm so excited. That was you, that was all your recommendation. So I'm actually gonna talk about a book series that I'm obsessed with. Um, that Amber has read the first book of called The Cruel Prince. And it is an amazing character study in relationships, the familial relationships and bonds that go into that. The romance is like the C plot, but in my opinion, that means that it's better than it being the A plot and the story revolving around it. And it is a real enemy to lovers. They hate each other and they are not good people, and that's what makes them perfect for each other. So go read The Cruel Prince by Holly Black. I'm obsessed with it, and oh, it's so good, so good.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

I've said before on past episodes that Kelly, if there is one talent that she has, she is a queen of recommendations. Like, I don't know if it's just she has just really good taste or if she just reads her audience and she's like, you, I think you would like this. But she's she's rarely steered me wrong, and I read uh The Cruel Prince and I really enjoyed it. I did really like their relationship. Um, so yeah, it's a good one.

SPEAKER_04 5:27

I won't take it from you, but I do know that she's also Fangirl 15, a little Harry Potter series yet to come. She is.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

Yes, I have been. It was it, I was I was very nervous when it was announced, but I am fully on board now. Fully on board. As fans of the book first, uh, I'm very excited for the Harry Potter TV show. As long as it says very loyal to the books, I'm all aboard.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

The trailer looked great. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It looks amazing. What about you, Becky?

SPEAKER_04 5:59

Okay, so I have an amazing fangirl50. It's about TikTok, actually, and I have been following this account, and I love it so much that I need everyone to go and follow Kelly Taylor's version on TikTok. Let me just tell you that if that doesn't tell you why we have Miss Kelly on today, you're not following the thread. Um, but in all honesty, Kelly actually has the most fun TikTok. She has the most fun life. She's um, you know, going here, going there, doing this, doing that, talking about all these things that we're talking about right now that she's passionate about. She will give you recommendations just like we are having them from her. Um, and I am not just saying this. It's good that Kelly's actually getting the inaugural. I'm not just saying this that doesn't have to do with someone else. Um, because she's here. I'm saying this because she actually has a really full, fun life, and you should follow her and and watch all of the adventures and antics that she's getting up to. And if you watch and read some of the things that she does, you will love getting the opportunity to sort of talk to her or spar with her, I guess, maybe even in the comments. Um, so I highly recommend Kelly Taylor's version, which I love that it's that, by the way, on TikTok.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Handle is me, myself, and my addictions. That's what you can look me up by. Yeah, I got that from a Sunny with a chance episode. So fangirl through and through, let me tell you.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

I love that. All right, Amber, what do you got for us? So, my fangirl 50. Um, a couple weeks ago I asked for some book recommendations, and I got a slew of them. And I got a recommendation for a book called The Silent Patient, and I got that from like three or four different people. So uh I went to a used bookstore, uh, actually my favorite used bookstore that Kelly introduced me to. Um, so I I read that book in about 12 hours. It was so good, and uh we've talked about it before. I love a good mystery, and I can usually see like twists coming. This was a twist that like I was properly speechless. I like had to close the book and put it down and just stare at the wall for a minute. Then I picked it back up and had to go back and be like, where did I miss this? How did I? It's just it was so I I don't know the last book that made me that like messed up in my head. Um Silent Patient was this guy's first book. He's written three books total, and so I'm currently reading his third. I read his other one already. Um and his name is Alex Michaelides, and he is fantastic. So if you just like a um mystery, they're either set in London or Greece. Um, and so they're they're modern day mysteries, they're really, really good. And I mean, if you like if you like a mystery that with good twists and turns, I highly suggest specifically the silent patient. And you said there's three? There's three.

SPEAKER_03 9:07

I have put the silent patient on my list after you were talking so highly about it on Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

So are they connected, these three stories? Or no? Funny you should say that. They're not connected in in like the it's like a series, but they happen in the same universe. So in the silent patient, uh that being its first, you know, you don't really pick up anything, but when I read uh The Maidens, uh there were other characters that I was like, wait, like Ruse from the Silent Patient? And then it was. So, and then uh the book that I'm reading right now just did it again. Um, so it lives in the same in the same universe, but they just make like little cameos.

SPEAKER_04 9:45

And you guys are going to this bookstore on Friday night?

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

Yeah. How very Ben and Mandy of you. Will you be going to pancakes afterwards too?

SPEAKER_03 9:55

Put another guess as to what we're doing after the bookstore.

SPEAKER_05 9:59

Yeah, an escape room.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

Yeah, but I did love the compact reference in there. Perfect.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

Yeah, that was good. That was good. She will not let an episode go by without a reference to a sum lady. Works for me.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Of course not. Alright, so we are going to talk all about Taylor Swift. What's her middle name, Kelly? Allison. Allison, thank you. We're gonna talk about Taylor, Allison, Swift. Before uh I go into our history and fun facts, uh, we should start with our fangirl scale. So where are we at with the fangirl scale? Who would like to begin?

SPEAKER_04 10:40

Uh well, I'll go first. I have decided to land on a six and a half, which is half of 13. I knew you were gonna do that. That is what I've decided to land on because I do know, of course, uh that our girl loves the number 13 because her birthday is December 13th. Am I right? Look at me. You are right. Um, and I didn't just look that up today. I did know that. But um, all jokes aside, I say that purposefully because I do enjoy Taylor Swift. I do think that she has a lot of really amazing qualities that even don't have to do with music. Um, but I just am would not call myself a Swiftie because I just don't know enough. And, you know, I'm just not into all of the, you know, minutiae that I know the fandom is, and I respect the hell out of that because you know, you know, here on fangirls of certain age, we love a fangirl. And boy Swifties, you know, hats off to you. Tip of the hat to you.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Definition of fangirls are Swifties. Yep. Absolutely. So that's me. Okay. You want to go next, Kelly, or you want me to go?

SPEAKER_03 11:48

I'll go. Um in, you know, there are a lot of numbers that are important to the Taylor Swift lore. So there's a lot I could say, but I'm gonna say I'm a 13 out of 10 because that is her lucky number. And you know, it just seems to be perfect. So yeah, I'm definitely a 13. I literally I was six years old when her first album came out, so I don't remember life before listening to her. So if that tells you anything.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Okay, that's actually really sweet though. Like, I get that. It is, it becomes a it's nostalgia and it's it's something that you that you literally grew up with.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

I can place different moments in my life based on what Taylor Swift's album was coming out at that time or what I was listening to.

SPEAKER_04 12:32

I love that. Yeah, I love that. It also tells me I'm old.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Okay, but that's but that's the thing, right? Is fangirls of a certain age. Yes, we are older, but we also we embrace and love and appreciate fangirls of all ages. But her earlier things I I wasn't really into. It's the much later was were where I fell in.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

In September, it'll be 20 years since Taylor Swift um came out, like the first her first album. So how old is she? She is 35. So she was 16 when her first album came out with songs that she wrote when she was 14 and 15. So you have to find her in a specific part of your life. But that's why I always say, like, if you say you don't like Taylor Swift's music, you just haven't listened to it because there are certain songs that like you might not like this album, but she's got 11 other albums that you might connect to. You know, it's really hard. Just she's got so much music.

SPEAKER_04 13:30

I'm sure we're gonna get into it all, obviously, but like the eras piece of it is I think what is so fascinating because it's the truth. Like, you just mentioned it basically that there are eras literally of your life that you can remember and connect to Taylor. And so I feel like that was the smartest of marketing they could do, but also it is like the perfect exclamation point to what Taylor Swift is and can be for anyone. You can jump in and out of an era and you live here, but you don't like that one or whatever, you know? And she's so so smart, such a smart businesswoman.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Yeah, I mean, she did an interview ten years ago, and they asked her, like, oh, if you were a singer, what would you be? And she was like, I'd be in advertising. And that just makes so much sense to me. Because of course she'd be in advertising, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Mm-hmm. She's not a good one.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

She advertised herself perfectly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I would say I'm probably a six as well. Well, I mean, I'm not six and a half, but I would say probably a six. Um, I I want to say I listened to the self-titled album, the debut album, and uh Fearless yesterday. And I want to say that's probably the first time I've listened to both of those albums all the way through. Truly. Probably the first time. And I was like, this is why I I wasn't a fan early on, because it's just not my vibe. And it's interesting to hear where she began and then to hear where she's at now is so different. It's uh, and not in a bad way, but just very evolved. It's it's incredible to hear it that way. But um the first Taylor Swift album that I listened to was Speak Now, and when you talk about the formative years, what I was dealing with and in my life, Speak Now was basically the narrative of everything I was dealing with in my life. And uh, so from there I kind of like listened to Taylor Swift like here and there, but I wasn't listening to every album. I have had a listen to every single one, but the ones that really have stuck with me are like uh Midnights and Tortured Poets. I almost said tortured. So this is gonna be a fun episode because Becky and I are not the the diehards, and that's why we have Kelly here because uh we're gonna talk about some things and we're gonna tell you some things that we learned, and we're hoping that Kelly can uh also teach us some things along the way. So, I think we can get into the history. Um, and listen, I'm not gonna lie to you, this is a little bit lengthier history than we normally give, but I think some of these things are very important to her story. Um so here we go. Taylor Allison Swift was born on December 13th, 1989, in Reading, Pennsylvania, grew up on a Christmas tree farm. Uh, she moved to Tennessee at age 13 to pursue a country music career, and she released her first album, just as uh Kelly said, uh, her self-titled album in 2006 when she was 16. And of course it was an instant hit. Over the years, as more albums released, her music style transitioned from country to pop, and I would go to say, and other genres as well. She's kind of gone up and down the different genres, which I think is incredible. Um, since her breakout in 2006, she's released a total of 16 albums, four of which were re-recordings, dubbed Taylor's version. And I'm gonna sidebar and talk about that for two seconds because I think that is an incredible and crazy story. So uh Taylor Swift's original masters to her albums were sold to Scooter Braun in 2019. Kelly, can you tell me who Scooter Braun is?

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Scooter Braun is the music executive. He he is really involved in the career of Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, etc. But he was also involved in the Kanye West famous music video. That is where Kanye West depicted a nude uh body of Taylor Swift in his music video over the quote, um, I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex, and he called her a bitch in that song. And she had never gotten along with him. There's a lot of a lot of backstory with that involving Kanye, but that was the last person she expected her masters to go to because Scott, uh, who she had a very loving, working relationship, the man who discovered her, knew how she felt about him and never in a million years thought that he would sell her masters to Scooter. And that's what he did without giving Taylor a chance to buy them herself.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Wow. Also, what kind of name is Scooter for a grown-ass man? Uh, anyway. Okay, thank you for giving us that context. So, in order to reclaim ownership of these albums without uh paying him for them, Taylor invoked a clause in her contract that she could re-record her first six albums after a certain date. So once that date dropped, she re-recorded the first four albums, dubbed Taylor's version. Uh, these recordings included vault tracks and um updated audio with more mature vocals. On May 30th, 2025, it was announced that she purchased the rights to the master recordings of the first six albums. So she now has full, complete ownership for all of her music, including her masters, which I think is such a cool hero story and shows that, like, exactly, like show shows her tenacity. It was a years-long battle, like multi-year battle that she really pushed herself to make sure it got taken care of because it meant that much to her.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

I'll also say that without the Aeros Tour and the success of the Aeris Tour, she actually wouldn't have been able to buy back her masters because they cost that much money. Basically, the Aerist Tour helped fund her ability to purchase her masters back. She also never gave any money to Scooter. It was in, you know, she there were a couple different people that after Scooter sold them to that she could have bought them from or were willing to work with her, but Scooter was always gonna get a cut. So she kept saying no, and then she devalued her original masters so much that when the final company bought purchased them, they went to her with the offer of you we'll sell them to you, and Scooter won't get any money. And that's exactly what happened. So she didn't give him any money, was able to purchase them, and because of her own hard work and releasing Taylor's versions on top of new albums, on top of doing the Air's tour, she was able to afford to buy them back. And I just oh, she's amazing. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

That's that's pretty incredible. I didn't know that piece. That's really wow. That's all right. So she has won over 500 major awards, including 14 Grammy Awards, including Album of the Year four times at the Grammys, which she is the first artist to do so. And she's also won over 40 American Music Awards, 41 iHeart Radio Music Awards, which is the most ever. Uh, and she debuted the Groundbreaking Eras Tour in 2023. She is engaged to Travis Kelsey, that happened in August of 2025. And she has three cats named Meredith Gray, Olivia Benson, and Benjamin Button. And that is the history of Taylor Swift.

SPEAKER_04 20:51

Can I just jump in? Because I don't want to know about Travis, but I do want to interject really quick to say this. I think he is literally the perfect person for her. He is so secure in his job and in what he's up to, and gives her the security to be herself and do her thing, and in some ways is as famous as she is and understands all of that, but also is giving her this super protective vibe. She doesn't have to actually be the girl we just talked about who's like, I'm gonna fight my own battles, I'm gonna afford my own shit, right? And I I don't know, this juxtaposition of him, you know, giving her this sort of Amberone, I'm gonna say giving her this sort of protective machismo a little bit, but then backing off and giving her the opportunity to be feminism uh feminist. I I don't know. There's something about it that I'm just like I jive with.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Let me tell you. I was telling Taylor, you know, because I talk to her all the time, obviously. Um I was I was saying, Taylor, you need to be an athlete. I've been athlete. I've been saying I've been saying that for 12 years probably since Harry Styles, I want to guess. And you know what? When she finally started dating Travis, I said I was preferring a baseball player, but it is what it is. I was so happy because they don't compete against each other for sales or for awards. They are two completely different parts of the world. He doesn't have to be jealous of her because he is the best at what he does, and she can be the best at what she does. And there's no there's no need for egos involved. They can just be a normal couple who are very successful at their chosen career paths.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

That's a very good point. I never thought of it like that either. But yeah, and they're they are both athletes and they are both performers, and so they both come from that same world of understanding where they can actually speak to each other about things that they're dealing with or feeling or whatever, and they're on the same page. Yeah. He's he's adorable and he's very sweet.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Um very hot.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Yeah, he's yeah, he's a good-looking guy.

SPEAKER_05 23:03

Good looking guy.

SPEAKER_04 23:04

Yeah, we'll have you back when we have an athlete. Sounds good.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

Also, it's just so much taller than her, which is so nice to see because she's a 5'11, 5'10 girly, and she can wear heels, and he still is towering over her. It's so nice to see. I'm so happy. She's not dating these British twigs anymore, man.

SPEAKER_04 23:27

She got a real man. She got a real but that's what I'm saying. That's what I mean. Like, there's something about him that is giving soft and hard at the same time. And I I really love that.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Stop it! Stop it.

SPEAKER_04 23:42

Cutting that.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

On the iHeartRadio Awards, she won and she was giving a speech and he started crying. They were talking about how she was like the most awarded of the diet, the most awarded his band started crying. At the iHeartRadio Awards, he's not surviving the wedding. He's not surviving the wedding.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

No, no. And like, I know it's talked about a lot, but like, even just like the the cameo he made at the Eros Tour, like that you could see he was just so honored to be part of it, you know, that he was having such a good time just to be supporting her. And like, this is my girl, you know? Yeah. That's that's a man. That's a man. It is man. All right. So I have a couple of stats from the Ares Tour that I would love to share just because they're crazy. They're crazy. So, as Kelly said, the Aeros Tour was wildly successful. I don't think that that's a new fact for anybody, uh, and made a lot, a lot of money. But in case you're not familiar with the sheer scope and scale of this tour, the Aeros Tour uh was it started on March 17th of 2023 in Glendale, Arizona, and it ended in December 8th, 2024 in Vancouver. So, like a year and a half of touring. That's crazy. And in that year and a half, it was she performed 149 shows across five continents, visiting 51 cities, and the show every single night was three and a half hours.

SPEAKER_04 25:15

That's that's wild. Like, I don't know how she like when you watch that doc, I'm like, I don't care if you can't stand her music. Like, you have got to give it to this woman. To give her respect as well.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

You have to respect her, always. That's what I always tell people. You don't have to like her, you can be annoyed by her success, but don't be the person that says, I don't get why she's successful, she's so overrated. She works harder than every single other person in because in the business, because she was literally writing Life of a Showgirl and TTPD while she was on the Aeros Tour.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

And going to football games, and going to football games, and Taylor's versions were released as well. She announced the Speak Now Taylor version and 1989 Taylor's version while on the Eras tour. Like her work ethic since she was 15, unmatched, truly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Yeah, it's incredible. You everybody knows like the Aeros Tour like was this huge thing, but when something is a tour, you don't really sit back and think, like, how long is a tour? A couple months. Like, and typically, yeah, it's maybe six months, like, and maybe a couple nights a week. But the entire duration of that tour was 632 days. That's crazy. And I'm sorry, again, as like a musician and a vocalist, a vocalist that is performing three and a half show shows like that. In stilettos. Yeah, shows in the rain. Vocal cords of steel. That's insane. You have and that's where the the athleticism comes in. That's athleticism.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

And you know what? Travis is the first person to tell her, Taylor, you gotta stop saying you're not an athlete.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

You do stuff that we could never do. And I and I love that for her. Also, I just want to say the demand for the aerostor, the the aerostor didn't end because there was no more demand. It ended because she was exhausted. Like the I always go back to the shows in Germany. Did you guys see that where people are just gathered on a hill?

SPEAKER_04 27:12

Like hundreds.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

There are there's already, you know, 60 to 70, 80,000 people in the arena, and then you've got thousands, thousands gathered on the streets on the hill just to be in the environment of the air story. It was really the personification of like girlhood. And I think that that's what's so amazing. That's why so many people were drawn to it because it was such like a safe, comforting space.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

I watched the first episode of the Eras documentary, and then I took a couple notes on things that I just felt were just completely like blown away by. And the thing I just wrote down was community, community, community. Like just seeing that no matter where she went, no matter what language these people spoke, not only could you see it, but that's what the fans were saying. We're like, oh, I've been in this line for five hours with these strangers, and I have no idea who they are, but after five hours, it feels like no time has passed, and now I have friends, you know, and like I just think that's so cool because I mean we we know how important fandom community is. We know that. Um, and so when you're able to see something on the scale that you were just saying with like, you know, the 80,000 people in the arena, and just the videos I see of people just singing together and dancing together and just vibing together, creating friendship bracelets. Yeah, like the it's it's such a cool and to your point safe environment. You're like, I don't need to feel ashamed about this, I don't need to feel weird about it, and like I can be emotional if I want. Like, it's it's uh it is a very cool thing that I I do I do wish in hindsight that I would have been able to experience it.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

One of the things I like about that Eros documentary that you're gonna see when you get further along is how uh it's not just the story of her, it's the story of everyone who is on this uh journey with her. Um, and oftentimes, you know, artists will do that, right? They'll talk about their dancers or talk about their backup singers or whatever. But you're following their stories as well. Um, and some of them are just so compelling. Um, and I really appreciate her allowing those stories to be told. But one of my favorite things literally to go back even and watch in clips um from the Eros Tour is um when her dancer says we're never getting back together in different languages.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

And Cam is an icon. He is an icon. Yeah, that's Cam. The backup dancers are just as much a part of the the Taylor Swift community as as anyone, and this goes back to her f very first tour. I mean, Paul Sidotti, um her her bass player, her guitarist, Max the drummer. Like these people have been with her since 2006. So I'm as familiar with them as I am in a lot of ways with Taylor. The fact of tasters have changed, but she it's usually just a matter of contract obligations. But no one ever has anything bad to say about her as a boss. Apparently, she's very generous, she's very kind. I mean, you see it in the documentary, she's just very go with the flow. She's very if you can do it, you have to do it well. And that comes from her security guard has been with her since 2016. Like, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

You know what I mean? And then I think that that is a testament to her as a person. Like, I'm sorry, if if you've been around since 2006 when she was 16 years old and she was cool enough at 16 to treat you with respect and j and uh graciousness and all of that, and then you're still with her 20 years later, like that's the sign of a of a good person to work with.

SPEAKER_04 30:41

So what I really appreciate and really value about her is she is so philanthropic and nobody even knows it. She is very private about all of the money and time, by the way, that she gives either to her fans or to causes that are, you know, dear to her or whatnot. And she's very private about it, and but she is I mean, yes, she spent a lot of money on buying back her her music, but like she spends a ton of money on um all of her philanthropic stuff. So I I tick my hat for that too.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

I think it was Ruby Rose who revealed that Taylor used to go through GoFundMe's and scroll on it like it was social media and just anonymously donate to people and just like hit their hit their their caps. Which, you know, you can say there's no ethical billionaires, and you probably you're right. But billionaires are gonna exist whether we want them to or not. At least there are people like that that are actually putting the money back out and giving their backup dancers and their crew and their whatever, you know, six-figure bonuses, etc. etc. So.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Alright, I'm gonna do my last uh fun fact and we'll move on because we talked about the lucky number 13. This gave a whole new wrinkle for me, which I didn't know. So, yes, yes, Taylor's lucky number is 13 because she was born on December 13th. However, there's more to it than that. She also turned 13 on Friday the 13th, and her first album went gold in 13 weeks. And so I love that she's like, I'm gonna stick with it.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

And I know what interview you got that from. You got that from like her f one of her first Jimmy Fallon interviews or something like that.

SPEAKER_05 32:35

Yeah. Wow, she knows exactly which one too.

SPEAKER_04 32:38

That is a freaking fangirl right there.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

That's a fangirl right there. She knows exactly which one. Yeah, I thought that was very interesting. I was like, oh, I thought it was just her birthday.

SPEAKER_03 32:47

13, 13 just kind of haunts the narrative. Like, that's the best way I can explain it. Like her 13th number one, you know, is her biggest hit, and things of that nature. Like, it just is always she just always haunts the narrative. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 33:00

Well, I love the way you just said that haunts the narrative because it is not contrived. Yes, a couple of them are, but it's not. It it just happens to be. And I, you know, I love that a kiss met, you know, romantic moment like that.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Yeah, like that serendipitous, like, yeah, almost like um superstition kind of thing. Yeah.

unknown 33:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Are we ready for some questions about Taylor Swift? And talk about some of our favorite things, some of our maybe not favorite things, some of our hot takes. I don't know. Let's see how this goes. First, we're gonna start with uh I don't know if this is an easy question or not, but I think it's kind of the most straightforward. I wanna know what's the most overrated album, what's the most underrated album? You want me to start? Sure, yep.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

Okay. Simply because I am a lyrics girl to my core, and pop is not necessarily my preferred genre of music in a lot of ways. 1989 is, in my opinion, the most overrated album. That doesn't mean it's not pop perfection, because it is pop perfection. I just want to put 1989 is the new like it's the Bible of pop music. I will die on that hill next to Katy Perry's. Um and then the most underrated album, it was not underrated at the time, but recently people have gotten very bold about this album. I'm gonna say fearless, the most awarded country album of all time, but people love to sleep on it. And it's a reason it's the most awarded country album of all times. It has so many perfect songs on it. So that's my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Okay, okay. What about you, Becky?

SPEAKER_04 34:48

Okay, my most underrated album, I think, is Red. I think Red is also pop perfection, and I think people don't realize that. Like when I see her singing 22, and of course I love at the Airstore when she picks a little person and whatnot, but when I like I feel 22 when I sing that song, you know what I mean? And that's coming from a 48-year-old, so it's like, you know, there's there's a there's a lightness to me to that album, you know what I mean? Because some of her stuff is deep, and that's great because I'm a lyrics, a lyrics girl as well, but I think red is uh is underrated. Um and overrated, I am not a fan of folklore. I think it's none I'd music. It's too slow for me. I need a bop. I need I need a balance, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 35:38

I will say I'm fascinated by you saying red is not like super sad. Um, but but uh the bops are bops. I'll give you that. The bops are bops, but we got songs on there, like I almost do, and all too well. However, um Yeah, folklore is is is perfect.

SPEAKER_04 36:00

You also have to realize that I'm not an albums girl like Taylor Swift or no one else. I'm very much a Billboard 100 kind of girl. And then sometimes I'll go to the album if I'm really loving somebody's like the way that I like to interact with Taylor Swift honestly is to go to Apple Music, put whatever on, based on whatever the song title is, and then read the lyrics as well. Yeah. Because that's what I am there for, which maybe is a weird way to approach it, but um I do like the I do like the song Red as well. I don't know, there's something about 22 specifically too that just makes me feel happy.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

No, I get that with you because Becky Becky likes to recall um a time of of like when she was you know free to just be a kid and have fun. And so and that's that's the essence of 22. Yeah. It's like I don't know about you, but I'm feeling 22. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

It romanticizes that age, and that age, I mean, I'm 26, so I'm it's only it's been four years, but it's it's but it feels like a lifetime. It does, it feels like that feels like such like a con you know, happy, free, confused, and lonely. Like that is what it feels like, and it's like such a simple lyric, but it's mystical and it's magical. Like it's just so contradictory at that age. And um Taylor is such you know, a a storyteller, and I think that's why I personally love her so much, is because I love books, I love stories, and Taylor's albums really tell a story, and it read they do it Red specifically, if you listen to the album front to back, it gives you whiplash. You go from the most gut-wrenching song you've ever heard to a song like 22, and it's like because that's what it listening to that album transports me to what it feels like to go through the darkest times in your life, but also have some of the most magical in there. You're going through a horrible heartbreak, but you have such amazing friends and you're having so much fun with them. It's like the the contradiction of that age, that's what I feel like red really symbolizes.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Wow, that's beautiful. You're gonna hate my overrated answer.

SPEAKER_04 38:07

Do you know what I know? You want to know something too? One of the reasons I think I don't connect with Taylor as much as I could is because I've been with my husband since day one. I have never had a breakup.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

If I were to like tell you a song, like an album to listen to, I would give you Fearless because Fearless is fairy tales and romance and princesses.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

And there's yeah, there's a lot of good um like love songs in there too.

SPEAKER_04 38:33

Um But I do think I do think there's there's something to be said for me for that because there's so much, there's so much that she goes through on her albums about breakups that sometimes I'm like I either can't connect or I connect in a different way with the you know lyrics that would mean something else.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and I think that's that's the beauty of music too. I mean, I say this a lot too, that's what art's supposed to do, right? Like, there's definitely there's definitely um Taylor's version of the song that she wrote, right? Who it was based off of, the experience that she lived, whatever. But I may not know that, and I don't need to know that to connect with that song because what I'm hearing is I'm playing my own story in my head where I'm like, you know what, this is exactly what I'm dealing with right now, and that's why this song resonates with me. So I will say my most overrated album is Red. I think Red is overrated, I think it's overrated, and I'm gonna tell you why. And I I don't know if this is gonna be a like a groundbreaking thing for you or not. I'm also a lyrics person. I think that is her strongest suit. She is an incredible lyricist and songwriter. My problem with Red, it is the most repetitive album I've ever heard in my life. Uh everything has changed. Starlight, Never Getting Back Together, The Last Time. Great songs. You're saying the same thing over and over and over throughout the whole song, and I'm bored. I'm bored. And they can they can still tell a story and they can still be powerful songs, but I'm like, get there faster if you don't have anything else to say in this chorus. We only need to say it twice, maybe. Well, maybe they just move on. And that's that. Well, not necessarily, not in um the last time, for God's sake. But so I there's some songs on on Red that I liked, but overall, that was something that like took me out. And to be fair, I am that way with any artist. Kelly doesn't love this about me, but she accepts it because she loves me. I I I am a very big John Mayer fan. Very big John Mayer fan. His weakest album is the one with Paper Doll on it.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

Because well, that song's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

That song is terrible, and that song is terrible, not just because of the context, not just because of the story behind it, because it's about Taylor, but it's just repetitive. He's just saying the same thing over and over again, and I'm like, bro, you're better than this. Like, this is about it.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

I would like to say, I would like to say that what I love about Taylor Swift is how petty she is. She and John Baer went through that breakup and he was awful to her. And instead of really getting back at him, she said, you know what? I'm gonna write a song that you wish you could write, and I'm gonna make these guitar riffs better than anything you could come up with, and this is what you're known for. And you know what? She did it. It's better than anything. Anything in his discography.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Kelly is not wrong. That song is literally one of my favorite songs.

SPEAKER_03 41:47

And it's literally And Told her Poets is that, but for Maddie Healy. Like, I oh, she's so petty. I love her.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

And I love her. And listen, that's that's a beautiful way to use your art. You talk about like, you know, the the number five song, right? So you know it started off as this like coincidental thing that fans were like, oh, the fifth song is always the most emotionally wrecked one or it's vulnerable, blah blah blah. And then she started doing it on purpose. Um, so song five is always one that's gonna have like heavier sentiment, whatever. Um, and I I have a list of all like the number five songs, and I was going through it, and I was like, What's my like what one do I think is the best? And it's Dear John. I'm sorry. Dear John is such a good song, it's so good. And like, and I love John Mayer, I love him so much. But that song, it's heartbreaking. It is the lyrics are beautiful. Like, I I was like scream singing it in the car yesterday because it's such, such a good song. Now, speaking of which, my underrated album is of course Speak Now.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

Yes, that is very that was I was going between the two of them for underrated.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

Speak Now, I think, and feel free to correct me. I think Speak Now was the first time that she kind of started to make her transition into a different genre. There are still some some like songs on Speak Now where you're like, there's that twangy guitar, but there's also some that are very different and very like you can like I listened to Enchanted and I listen to Last Kiss now, and I'm like, oh, that sounds like a song that's on albums now. You know what I mean? And so I like the variety of the type of music that is on that on that album, and just as a reminder of the different types of songs that are on this album, uh Speak Now, Dear John, Mean, Story of Us, Never Grow Up, Enchanted, Better Than Revenge, and Last Kiss are all on that album, and those are all incredible songs.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

They're all And yet the album is still sonically cohesive.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

I don't know how you do that, but she does it. She did it with reputation too. It doesn't make sense to. Me, but it's amazing. I will also say, going back to her being a petty queen after Fearless one album of the year, people were saying she can't be holding her own in those writing rooms. There's no way she's writing the majority of this album. So what'd she do? At 18 years old, she went in the studio and she wrote the entirety of Speak Now Alone. There's not a single co-writer on that album. And you know it has some of her longest songs. Last Kiss, Long Live, Dear John, those are some of the longest songs in her catalog.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

And again, just the most beautiful lyrics.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

I could write a dissertation on Last Kiss. I could write. I can't. That song is so.

SPEAKER_03 44:44

I personally, it's her saddest song, in my opinion. I watch her in the side. That is my answer to the next question. I watch your life in pictures like I used to watch you sleep, and I feel you forget me like I used to feel you breathe. Writing that at 18 years old is wild. Wild work. I can't even comprehend that.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

Anyway. And to and to feel that type of heartbreak and loss at 18. Joe Jonas is also tragic. Oh Joe Jonas. Oh Joe Jonas. Damn boys. Tell you what. So that is your answer to the next question of what is the most emotionally devastating song? You are submitting Last Kiss.

SPEAKER_03 45:30

I have one more, but I think Last Kiss.

SPEAKER_04 45:36

Well, this is Fangirls of a Certain Age, so you're allowed to have more than one. We roll like that.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

My other one is made less sad, knowing uh the what came almost immediately after it. But the saddest song, which is also my favorite song that she's ever written, is The Prophecy.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

Oh, I didn't know that was your favorite.

SPEAKER_03 45:58

That and Cowboy Like Me, but The Prophecy, yeah. I mean, she's literally on her hands and knees begging, like, what's going on? What's wrong with me? Why can't I get this for myself? And it's just she's she's she's just so confused and it's gut-wrenching to listen to. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

Oh, God. Alright, Becky, what about you? What's the what's the most emotionally devastating song?

SPEAKER_04 46:23

Alright, so I have two as well, and they're for very different reasons, but I'm definitely giving an honorable mention to Ronan, and I don't want to go down that road, but I'm giving an honorable mention to Ronan. I don't know that song.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

It's about a boy who who passed away with cancer. She was following her mom's blog post. All proceeds from that song go to the family. So if you ever are in the mood to cry, and you will cry, I promise you, go give it a stream because the money goes to the family.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

Is it on an album or is it a standalone?

SPEAKER_03 46:52

It's on uh it's a standalone, but it's on Speak Now Taylor's version. Um but it is gut-wrenching, be prepared to cry. And I'm not kidding when I say that.

SPEAKER_04 47:02

Especially as a mom.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

Yeah, it's hard.

SPEAKER_04 47:05

That's why I'm like, I don't want to go down that road because it's really hard to make a crying. Yeah. I have two. I have one that emotionally wrecks me every time, and it's a newer one, and I just thought it was the most beautiful writing and twist, and like I was gobsmacked.

SPEAKER_03 47:27

You know what it is? I think I know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

I will lose my mind if if you say what I think you're gonna say. I'll lose it. Oh geez.

SPEAKER_04 47:36

Uh it's L-O-M-L, and I am purposefully saying it like that.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 47:42

Yeah. Because that is the whole song feels one way, then it feels another. It feels one way to you, as it might feel differently to another. Yeah. Is this the love of her life? Is this the loss of her life? Is that both? Like, I will just sing that in my head over and over again. I think it is so beautiful and it emotionally wrecks me because it is like those two things are so connected, right? Yeah. And that's what I think she does in general very well is walking on the edge between two things that should be so different, but yet they're not, and they, you know, coexist so well. Okay, so the other one that emotionally wrecks me, and I'm telling you, literally, it emotionally wrecks me, and you're gonna love this, Kelly. Again, not a classic proper Swifty, but there is no song literally on the planet Earth, save for a Broadway song, not this episode, that describes me, and this describes me in every single way to the fiber of my being. I still get teary when I hear it. You belong with me. Oh that is literally who I was. I was that girl. That Amber, does that not make sense to you? I was that girl. In some ways, I am still that girl, and I would have all the boys at my house. You could ask my mother, I I mean, all the popular guys at my house. I would have football players to baseball players to whatever, and all talking to me about whatever other girl. I mean, I can remember sitting there and having one particular guy who was a big man on campus asking me who he should take to prom. And I'm like, me. But I mean, but helping them work through their stuff and you know, all the things like it literally still does make me teary because I deeply connect with that feeling.

SPEAKER_03 49:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:49

So it's funny that you've said fearless.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

The music video is uh part of my DNA. Like that music video, I think, is responsible for a lot of my favorite romance tropes. The best friends to lovers, the looking through each other's windows and having the secret form of communication. Like I used to read Wattpad fan fictions about that music video, one specifically called A and D. For anybody out there who's looking for a you belong with me fan fiction. It's still on Wattpad. You can buy the full version. I bought it because I read it occasionally to this day. It was so fundamental to me who I was at eight years old.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

Wow. Yeah. I love that. I see, that's the stuff that I love. Things that just stick with us.

SPEAKER_03 50:31

We were on the same page for what we thought Becky's were, so I'm really interested to see what yours is.

SPEAKER_04 50:36

I just want to say too, it's this deep desperation that she has of like, please, please see me for who I am. Please know.

SPEAKER_03 50:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:46

You know, and it's like I just feel it.

SPEAKER_03 50:48

Wanting to be belong, just wanting to belong somewhere.

unknown 50:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:52

Okay, Amber, what you got?

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Well, we got last kiss you just said, so yeah. Alright, so last kiss is is an honorable mention, but it is not my pick. Oh Kelly, you should already know what I'm going to say. You know what song I'm going to say. It's Peter.

SPEAKER_03 51:07

Oh, I did know that. Of course I knew that. Oh, that was so silly of me.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

There is not a song that she has released that I have heard that punched me square in the nose the way that Peter did. That song like makes me cry, and I can listen to it on repeat. And if you want to talk about lyrics, I wrote this verse down and I am going to read it. It's not one line.

SPEAKER_03 51:34

I know it. I know what you're gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

What is the verse, Kelly? Go.

SPEAKER_03 51:39

You're gonna do the verse that says, Love's never lost when perception is earned. Which alone is a banger of a big thing. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

That's uh that's the that's the part that's bolded. And I won't confess that I waited, but I let the lamp burn. Let's start there. Let's start there.

SPEAKER_03 51:57

And this is what I love about Taylor Smith is we can do literary critical analysis of her songs, and we can draw parallels from that song to songs in the past. And songs that she wrote 10 years ago when she met the guy that's and and that's why TD TTPD is her Magnum opus because it's so referential to everything that came before it. Anyway, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

I agree with you. TTPD is is my like, I think it is a masterpiece. I can put it on and I like I am at ease. I fall asleep listening to it. It's so beautiful from start to finish. And but I won't confess that I waited. I'm not gonna tell you that I waited, but I did. And I let the lamp burn. I left the light on for you. I left it on while you were traipsing around, doing God knows what with your life, and I just sat here and waited for you to remember that I'm still here. Okay as the men masqueraded, I'd hoped you'd return with your feet on the ground, tell me all that you learned, because love's never lost when perspective is earned. And you said you'd come and get me, but you were 25, and the shelf life of those fantasies has expired. Lost to the Lost Boys chapter of your life. Forgive me, Peter. Please know that I tried to hold on to the days you were mine, but the woman who sits by the window has turned out the light. And the way that she sings that entire chorus, that entire piece, she's broken and she is done. She's done. She's like, I've waited so long. I put so much into you, and I invested so much of how I felt into you, into us, and you never came back. You didn't care. It did not matter to you the way that it mattered to me, and I'm turning the light off. Lights off, don't come home.

SPEAKER_04 53:59

That goes perfectly with my second favorite Taylor lyric, by the way. It's not my first, but it's my second, and it's out of love, uh, love of my life, lost my life, whatever you want to say. Um, I can't get out of bed because something counterfeit is dead.

SPEAKER_03 54:15

So good. I can't, and like the way all these songs like interact with each other. Like T T PD is literally like there's so much to go over in terms of Taylor Swift lore and how like those two songs connect with like the black dog and uh Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus, that is another masterpiece in storytelling and songwriting, and it's just the way they connect to each other and the way she gets so specific with her writing, and yet we can all relate to it. It's just it's it's yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:52

And see, you know what my second favorite Taylor song is, which might surprise you, but my second favorite Taylor song is Lover, and I feel like I do like Lover.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

That doesn't surprise me at all.

SPEAKER_04 55:03

You belong with me, grew up to lover. She leaves those Christmas lights on. She can do it.

SPEAKER_03 55:10

With every guitar string scar on my hand, I take this magnetic force of a man to be my lover. With all the guys who broke her heart in the past that she had to write songs about and got these guitars, these guitar scars on her hands. She is now put you like goosebumps.

SPEAKER_04 55:28

Yeah. But that's where she started, right? She started in her bedroom, like, please love me. And then to your point, she went all the way through. And to me, it was like the happily ever after, even though we know it's not the end of her. At the moment they thought it was.

SPEAKER_03 55:45

But regardless, I always say, like, um, and it's not just me, Swiffies in general. We always say that um teardrops on my guitar from her very first album, it's kind of the thesis statement of her life and of her writing, because she's sitting there putting her heart on a platter, right? She's just singing to her guitar, and her guitar is the only one that's listening, that's able to express herself, and through that instrument, she's able to impact and feel less alone with the wider world, right? And by singing teardrops on her guitar by by crying while she's writing these songs, she's able to make everyone else in the world feel less alone. And I just think that it's her mission statement.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

That's her mission statement.

SPEAKER_04 56:29

You know what my favorite lyric though? She writes these completely like you just read us one, Amber, like this completely unbelievable turn of words. But my favorite lyric is so simple, and it's randomly from Bad Blood, and that is that band-aids don't fix bullet holes. I say that all the time. I say it all the time.

SPEAKER_03 56:50

We always put a lot of emphasis when it comes to Taylor on her ability to write these long drawn-out monologues into songs, but she can also write bulletproof pop. And 1989 is a perfect example. It's not poetry necessarily, but being able to put those quick sentences into a song that's so relatable, it's like I don't want to live forever, right? That's uh it was a song with Zane that she had for the Fifty Shades Darker soundtrack. She says, Um, wondering if I uh dodged a bullet or just lost the love of my life, right? That's just a very simple lyric, but it's in a it's in a song, and you don't quite understand how emotionally impact impactful that is unless you're really sitting there and like thinking about it and like digging deep into it.

SPEAKER_00 57:37

Yeah. I and I think that's a good segue into the next question because I need to know, and you mentioned it a little earlier, is 1989 pop perfection or is it overrated? I'm just curious where we all stand with 1989. And I th I I will start because I kind of have the same thought as as you as how you're describing it, Kelly. I don't dislike 1989. I think it's a fun album. I think it's really fun. I I'm kind of neutral about it. Do I think it's pop perfection? I guess. I mean it's good, it's fun. I don't have a problem with it. There's some there's some bangers on there. Um, do I think it's overrated? No, it's a it's it's it's pop and it's fun. Like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's I'm not surprised that people like it. It it makes sense that people like it. So I'm not like, no, it's not overrated. I understand why people like it. It's not my favorite album, but I get it, you know? So I'm I'm more neutral, but what about you guys?

SPEAKER_04 58:38

Uh this question, I have to say, maybe Kelly, you can jump in on this because I was surprised by this question. Meaning, is this a thing that people are that people like debate?

SPEAKER_03 58:49

Like, I didn't know that. 1989 is widely considered um one of the pop Bibles. So there's a couple of pop Bibles. Um, 1989 is probably the most agreed upon. Even like haters understand. I mean, the amount of number ones she had from that album, you have Bad Blood, you have Shake It Off, you have Blank Space, you have Style, you have Wild Extremes. I mean, that alone is five.

SPEAKER_04 59:11

It's banger after banger after banger.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

Right. Like these are number ones and or close to number ones. I think style, I think she blocks style from getting number one with blank space, or or like she blocked herself from getting number one on the billboards during that era. Like it's widely considered a pop classic. So is uh California Girls by Katie Perry. That's another pop Bible.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

Is that album called this Teenage Dream, yeah?

SPEAKER_03 59:35

Teenage Dream, I'm sorry, yes. People, even people who don't like Taylor know that it's a pop like a pop Bible. Um, even if they don't like it, they can argue it. It defines pop during that time.

SPEAKER_04 59:46

Sure, it's of a time. That's my my notes say it's of a time, and it captures that time perfectly. And that, you know, pop is short for popular, right? So it was what was popular at that time. So, and again, banger after banger after banger after banger. I mean, and you have another question here, too, and I won't get into it, but it's about a different album that's kind of in the same vein.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:11

Um I'm more I'm more interested in is the give it to me. Uh is Reputation her best album or just her most iconic?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:24

Yes. So here's my thing: Reputation defined coming like a comeback single. It defined you're in your reputation era, is widely known as being like your dark era. She was canceled and she came back, she rose up from the dead, she does it all the time. The wiping out of Instagrams, reputation is a defining cultural moment, and it's really interesting because it wasn't well received when it came out, even by fans. I remember that. Fans liked it, but people didn't really get on board with it until right around the Aras Tour when it became a fan favorite, maybe a little bit before that. Um, but it's interesting how it's evolved and become a cult a cult, you know, a cult classic became this defining cultural moment, and that's what it did. So it's not my favorite album, but I love it. It's the same way like folklore is also another cultural moment or 1989. Like she has these moments in time. TTPD wasn't received well when it first came out, and now it's widely considered for Magnumopus, and it hasn't been out. It's uh two years this month, I think. Like folklore, I think, is a bulletproof album. You know, that type of thing. You got a Pat Bible, you've got a defining cultural moment and reputation. You have a bulletproof album with folklore. She's always ahead of the curve.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:39

She's ahead of the curve, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:40

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

I think that people had were like um it was jarring for them because she was she was quote canceled, right? And she had a particular style, even though she was kind of, you know, ebbing and flowing with a couple different genres up until that point. But then when she got to reputation, to your point, it was very don't call don't call it a comeback vibe, it was very revenge, it was very different, completely different sound. Um, I again I listened today, I listened to 1989 into reputation. Like I was just I was it playing in the background while I was working, and uh just the significant difference of you can feel the energy and the the tone is different, and even haters, to your point, um, will give reputation its due. Fangirl Darius is not a Taylor Swift fan. Yeah, look at Kelly's face.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:38

I would have to talk to him about that. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

He is not a Taylor Swift fan, but because I talked to him today, he I said, but is there anything, anything that you like? And he goes, Reputation is good. So I will I'll leave it at that. That I agree with you that I don't think it's her best album because I think that you know TTPD alone, and I think Speak Now is better than Reputation, but iconic, I'll give it iconic. I will give it iconic because it came out at the right time, it had the right sound, it was completely different, and people were like confused at first, but then they got on board pretty quick.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:15

Yeah. My note was it is such a vibe. Like when you hear that bass line for Ready for It, forget it. I'm like, let's go, and I feel powerful, right? And so sometimes we forget that because she's such an incredible lyricist, that she can also put you in a vibe so quickly with the actual musicality of something. And it's funny because you and I did our School Spirits episode and we were assigning songs to each character, and then Kelly and I were going back and forth in the DMs because Amber and I are like of a certain age, so we didn't know any of the new the new music to assign to people, to be fair. But for each of the Landside girls, I had a Taylor Swift song, and I told you that Claire, Ready for It came to mind, and that was the first person and the first song in the whole entire thing we were doing that came to mind right away. It is that vibe feeling of that bass line that just puts you into a person, a place, a thing immediately, whatever that may be for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:21

I mean, also just the way she does her air is so distinctly different from each other. You listen to Lover and you get a completely different imagery in your head than when you listen to Reputation or Folklore, which came right after I went Reputation, Lover, Folklore. Those are three completely different albums that she released back to back, essentially. And it's like the way you get different pictures, different visuals. I can see a photo of her in an outfit or the haircut and know exactly what year that was, what album that was, that she's a master. It's a it's masterful, her her storytelling in that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

I I learned this when I watched the first episode, and I feel dumb that I didn't realize it, but I thought it was just very interesting that the whole idea for the Eras tour was because she was going over her masters and she was going over her different albums and how she was like, I was at such different eras of my life with all these different albums, and like it's interesting to be able to take this one album and be like and like revisit that era, and so that's where the idea came from. And I was like, that's beautiful. That's that's a series, that's a book series. You know what I'm saying? Like it's Harry Potter one through seven. Like, okay, this is first year, this is second year, this is third year. That's what that's what the Eros tour is.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:36

Well, it's interesting because when she was talking about reclaiming her masters, like she when she was re-recording, she was saying that each album she recorded and released was like collecting another whore crux. That's one of the things she, you know, collecting an Infinity Stone. So, yeah, that's always been it it's pieces of herself that she lost. I mean, she wrote she wrote Love Story in 20 minutes on her bedroom floor in high school, and you're taking that away. From her, she performed our song at her ninth grade talent show, but she doesn't own the rights to it. Like, I can't imagine what that must feel like. Because I own every trophy and every glove I've ever owned for softball, right? If those just got taken away from me, it feels like you're you're ripping a piece of yourself away, you know? So I'm so happy she got them back.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:18

That was beautiful, Kelly. That's a really beautiful way to put that. Okay, so believe it or not, but that's those are my superlative questions. And Kelly has put together a game for this episode. So I'm gonna hand it over to Kelly.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:36

Alright, so it's being a big trend on social media right now, Shakespeare or Taylor Swift. Um, because she's known for her lyrics, and Shakespeare is known for his sonnets or his his words. So I'm gonna read you a quote and you're gonna tell me Shakespeare or Taylor Swift, and I'm gonna let you know who it was and who was right. I'm also gonna keep Tally because I'm curious to see who wins. We love a winner.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:03

Because that's the competitive athlete in me, you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:06

Okay, 1000%.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:07

Ready? Question one. Do you miss the rogue who coaxed you into paradise and left you there?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:16

Taylor's Taylor.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:18

That is correct. That's from Coney Island on Evermore.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

Oh, and you went Evermore? I don't know that album. I don't know Evermore. Yeah, I don't really either.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:29

You guys should listen to Evermore. My tongue will tell the anger of my heart, or else my heart concealing it will break.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:38

Shakespeare. Shakespeare.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:41

Yes, that's from Taming of the Shrew.

unknown 1:07:44

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:46

Two for two, Becky. We're doing good.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:48

The chorus of true love never did run smooth.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:52

That's Shakespeare. Taylor Swift.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:00

It is Shakespeare. Is it Romeo and Juliet? Midsummer Night's Dream.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:06

Okay, I've heard that before. That's the only thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:15

Past the curses and cries beyond the terror in the nightfall.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:22

Ta Taylor Swift.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:30

Final answers? It is Taylor Swift from Happiness.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:35

No. Happiness. What's that song on?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:39

Evermore. If you're looking for an emotional wrecking song, happiness, there you go. You would think, oh, it's a happy song. That's like a trend on TikTok right now. Where they post a photo of themselves looking at their ex-significant other. And it's like haunted by the look in my eye that would have loved you for a lifetime. Anyway, that's a that's a really emotional song.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:59

Uh-huh. Yikes.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:01

Don't waste your love on someone who doesn't value it.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:06

Shakespeare. Well, that's just good advice. That's just good advice.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:13

Something we all need to learn. Okay, so Amber said Shakespeare.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:17

Taylor.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:19

Taylor? That is Shakespeare from Romeo and Juliet.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:24

That was from Romeo and Juliet and Juliet. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:27

And all we are is skin and bone trained to get along.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

Shakespeare.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:36

Oh we are skin and bone trained to get along. Taylor.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:41

That is Taylor. That's from treacherous red.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:47

Treacherous.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:49

That's one of my favorite lines she's ever written.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:51

I was gonna say that's a really good line.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:54

In black ink, my love may still shine bright.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:58

That sounds like Taylor. And that sounds Shakespeare to me. I'm going Shakespeare. I'll do Taylor.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:06

Shakespeare.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:08

That is from Sonnet 65.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:11

Whatever that means.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:14

I'd meet you where the spirit meets the bones in a faith forgotten land.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:24

I'm going with Taylor. I have a thought of what song this is, but I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:28

I, you know what's so funny is that most of these, it's like the first half sounds one thing and the second half sounds the other or whatever, you know? Um, I think it's Shakespeare.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:38

It is Taylor.

unknown 1:10:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:40

What song?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:41

We're all tied up again. Ivy.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:44

Oh no. I would I thought that was haunted.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:46

Then how can it be said I am alone when all the world is here to look on me?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:51

That's Taylor. Yeah. Taylor.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:56

Midsomar.

unknown 1:10:58

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:00

Midsomar.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:01

I thought that one would trip you up.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:04

Because I was like, is that prophecy? Is it the prophecy?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:07

Right. That's what I was thinking. Yeah, it's very prophecy.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:09

Midsomar is what is that? A Shakespeare thing?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:13

Uh Midsummer's uh Midsummer Night's Dream. Oh, that.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:19

Your touch brought forth an incandescent glow, tarnished but so grand.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

If Taylor's writing that, like, I just an incandescent glow. Shakespeare. Alright, I'm going with I'm going with Shakespeare.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:34

Eh, that's from Taylor Swift. You guys sleep on Evermore, both of you. That's what I mean. I literally 1,000% I sleep on Evermore. Yeah. Ivy, Ivy, you gotta listen to Ivy. Dang, okay. Okay, just a couple more. Where does Evermore fall? Evermore's between folklore and before midnight.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:54

Midnight has vigilante shit, and I love vigilante shit. I love it. That doesn't surprise me at all. It's a good song. I put it on. I feel like it's my uh guilty pleasure. I put it on and I'm like, hee hee, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:06

Is that the one that starts with uh draw the cat eye sharp enough to kill a shit? Sharp enough to kill a man. Okay, that's one of my favorite lines. And also the same person who made my shirt, which is uh Scarlet Witch, and it says Who's Afraid of Little Old Me? She made um a shirt that has Jafar on it, and it's like a close-up of his face, and then it says, Draw the cat eye sharp enough to kill a man. And I want it so bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:33

You need that shirt. That's so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:37

Oh my god. Third Wish Designs is the name of this person. She is a she is amazing at doing Disney Taylor Swift mashup shirts. You gotta check her out on Instagram. She's incredible. Good. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:50

I wish to know the fatal flaw that makes you long to be magnificently cursed.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:57

That's Taylor. Shakespeare.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:01

Taylor. Becky is in the lead. We have a couple more. Who writes like that? I know. That's what I'm saying. I know. You're sleeping on Evermore. Almost all these are from Evermore. Evermore is a very underrated album. That was also one of my topics. Ivy is one of the best written songs ever. Like, genuinely, it is beautiful. And Cowboy Like Me, which is one of my favorite Taylor Field songs, that's on there. Like, it's just such a good album. It's just you have to be in the mood for it because it is lyrically dense and it's not a lot of like hot like upbeats. You know, we have like gold rushes like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:36

That's what's tough about folklore and evermore for me is that it is straight ballad. Like all the way through, there's not really like uh ups and downs, but I have learned to really like folklore a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:48

By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:52

Shakespeare. Taylor. Shakespeare. I'm just waiting for you to be like, both. Taylor was quoting Shakespeare. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:01

I did I did sit there and be like, damn, Taylor should include this in a song. Like that was literally what my thought process was there. Yeah. Um, okay, I'll do one more for a tiebreaker.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:13

It's for 13 points, Kelly.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:16

Yes, for 13 points. They winner takes all. Uh what do I want to do? Um I'm nervous you're gonna know this one. Okay, I'll go with this one. The old widow goes to the stone every day, but I don't. I just sit here and wait, grieving for the living.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:36

Shakespeare. Taylor.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:41

It's Taylor. Damn it!

SPEAKER_00 1:14:46

It's that 0.5 on the fangirl scale that she's not on me, apparently.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:51

That's right. I think sometimes that I'm not smart enough for Taylor's.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:59

No, it's not that you're not smart enough. It's just that you you like more bops, bops, and stuff. And I I need I need up and down on an album. Because I do listen to an album.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:11

You know I love it. I need peaks and I love a gut wrencher. I do. But yeah, I love to shake my ass. I love to dance.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:18

I like sad girl. Sad girls.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:20

I like sad girl, but then like after like three, give me an upbeat one, and then you can go back to sad girl. That's what I need, where I'm like, just I need a little bit of a variety, which is why, again, folklore and evermore are hard for me. But but not to say, like TTPD, though, is like, first of all, hella long. And second of all, it's mostly ballads in Sad Girl.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:41

Yeah, but you've got songs like The Smallest Man Who Ever Lives. Like, that is technically a sad song, but when the when the like it's like the windows blow out on your car kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:52

Who's afraid of little old me? Yeah, I can do with a broken heart. Both of those songs, put it up, turn it up. Oh my god. Anthems. Yep. So good. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:02

Well, excellent job. Excellent job, ladies. Well, should we do a blessed or manifest? I think we should. I think we should. Alright.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:12

You go first, Amber. Oh, me? Okay. Yeah, you go first. Um, I have no blessed in this game, like none. Uh, I've never seen Taylor live. I've never done any type of Taylor experience, shockingly, considering I do so much with Kelly. Um, I will say this is just this is an aside, and it is kind of a little like a teeny tiny little bitty blessed. Um, I don't know if Kelly knows this, but uh Kelly and I uh used to work together on the same team, and the first interaction I ever had with her was on a group chat with our team. I had never I had not met this girl face to face, I didn't know who she was, I just knew she was a new girl on our team, and we were doing like a team uh get to know you or something, and the question was uh what's who's your favorite singer? And so I had said something like, Oh, Michael Bublet is like my number one, but I listened to a little bit of everything. I like John Mayer, I like Taylor Swift, but I don't consider myself a Swiftie. And then this girl jumps on and she was like, I'm 100% a bona fide Swifty. No shame here, and goes on this whole thing about how much she loves Taylor Swift. And I remember in that moment, I was like, This so unapologetically herself, and I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:29

I was on the team for like a week. I was on the team for like a week before this happened. Oh my god, I can't believe it at that.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:36

And it and it didn't take long as soon as we got to like yeah, as soon as we were, you know, in front of each other, then it was like it could not be denied. But so that's like my mini Taylor Swift blessed, but um, but my manifest, I would like to see her live. I think that that would be cool. Um that will happen, and like, yes, I would like to see her perform because obviously she puts on an incredible show and she's a great performer, but just as we were talking about before, I just kind of want to be in that environment because watching everybody's experiences, yeah, of the Aerosor when people would post their videos and their pictures, I just got like so much joy just from seeing how much fun people were having and how unapologetic they were and how powerful they felt. Like you saw that in those things, even if you were not a Swifty or a big Taylor Swift fan, you still got that like contact high because it was so infectious. So I would love to do that. I like it. Roger? Yeah, you go, Kelly.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:36

Um, I am very blessed in so many ways, but the one thing I have not gotten to do yet is meet Taylor Swift. So I'm just putting it out of the out, putting it in the universe. Putting it in the universe. I would love to meet you. Yeah, so that's that's my fangirl manifest.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:53

I want that so badly for you, I can't even tell you.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:56

The thing is, I'm worried about what would happen. Like, what I cease to exist. I I would cry a lot. It'd be really embarrassing, but but at least I'd get to do it. At least I'd get to say thank you. That's what I want to do, really, is say thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:12

Yeah. Oh. Oh, I love that. It's so nice. Uh, I don't have a blessed. I my blessed adjacent is very sad because I did have tickets to the Era Tour and I had to bow out because I had a sick kiddo. But we try to put that in the past and forget about that. Um, but yes, I I will I did have a ticket to the Ares tour.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:37

Her next tour. We're all going together. Let's go. All right. I'm gonna give you the full Swifty experience, everything.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:44

Yeah, we'll get dressed up. I'll have to figure out what to wear. I like all of that. Um, but my manifest is as such, and I think you might be able to color this a little bit, Kelly, because I think there's some talk about this possibly, but I with all sincerity mean this. I'm manifesting that she writes a Broadway show. I want this so badly. I want her to write original music, I want her to write to be a part of writing the story of it, and I I feel like I've adjacently heard this somewhere, but it to me it makes so much sense. And I and what she has done with the Heiress Tour, to be able to allow her to do that in a story and in a visual medium as well, would be so freaking amazing, and that's where my heart would really sing as we know I'm the Broadway girly. So that is my manifest. Miss Taylor, please. Great manifest.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:43

So she does have a movie deal, and she is going to write and direct her first feature film. I think um, however, since 2020 have been begging, begging for the mama miification of folklore. Because do you guys know that the three songs, there's already a story? She has a love triangle, three songs that create a love triangle within the album. But when it first came out, we were all like, okay, what songs are within the love triangle? Like, what are from whose perspective? And we thought the whole album was from that perspective. So I feel like if I had I made a very cohesive story with this is me trying, and hoax, and the one to add into the the August, uh Betty Um um Cardigan of lore, and I want a like prom past, like high school romance, Mamma Mia version of folklore. That is it.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:41

Is there a part for our boy in that? Oh god.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:44

Oh yeah. He can play, I mean he's honest. No, no, well, no, he is James. But he'd be singing Betty, and he would slay that song. Show the fat. But he and you know what? To be James, because we want to root for James. Taylor says that James and Betty end up together. We have to have somebody really charismatic to play James because James is the one who goes and hooks up with Augustine for the summer and then breaks breaks both her heart and Betty's heart. So we need somebody that we want to root for even with his mistakes. So Milo is a perfect, perfect candidate for that.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

There you go. There we are. Some more dreamcasting. You know, you know how we do. Don't worry.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:27

But I would, I would, you know, I hear you on the folklore of it all, but I I think she is so up for the challenge of writing an entirely original and and actually being from the ground up. It's just that she would have to have the time.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:42

I think, I think, do both. I also think that Grammys, she's got 14 of them, you know. Music is something she's always gonna do, but she should be going for that egot status, in my personal opinion. Why not do a Tony? Get an Oscar. She's been nominated for Oscars and Golden Globes and stuff like that for other songs. So maybe one day she'll give us a Broadway musical. I would love to.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:06

I just think it would be so cool. And she could be part of the casting, and she could be writing all of the songs and all of those things and all original stuff, and to be able to tell her story from start to finish like that, I think would be really cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:19

Alright, my babes. I think I think that we have Taylor Swifted this podcast all up. So I think it's time for us to say our thank yous. Kelly, we're so happy to have you and to talk about one of your many, many fandoms. Don't worry, everyone, Kelly will be back because she has 46,000 fandoms. And yeah, we'll definitely talk about another one, I'm sure. Um, her and Darius, I feel like, are gonna be back multiple times. Um, so thank you so much for talking to us about your favorite lady and uh for joining us. Uh, if you all want to hear more from us and from Kelly and hear us all fawn about Kelly in every episode, please make sure that you subscribe where you get podcasts of fangirls of a certain age, and that you follow us on social media on TikTok and Instagram. And until next time, I love you both so so much, and I love Milo Manheim.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:22

I love you so much, and I love Milo Manheim. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:30

I love you.