Montford Point Marines Louis Massengale and Jimmy Hargrove Audio Interview Pt2

In this part-2 episode hosted by Patricia Williams, both Louis Massengale and Jimmy Hargrove explain where and what they did after the war was over and also touched on the racism and discrimination they endured during those times.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

LV55 Media LLC presents the Heroes of Montfort Point interview series featuring Mort Point Marines, Lewis Nassingale, and Jimmy Hargrove, part two, hosted by Patricia Williams.

SPEAKER_04 0:20

Okay, now I understand that by the time you both went in in about 1949, was it?

SPEAKER_02 0:26

48.

SPEAKER_04 0:27

48.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Yes. And I had two different services. First in the Navy, then the Marines.

SPEAKER_04 0:34

Oh, first in the Navy and then in the Marine. In the Marines.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Okay, so when um 1944 I was drafted.

SPEAKER_04 0:41

Okay. Into the Navy.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

And into the Navy.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Was discharged in 46.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

And we were discharged on a point system. So 46 was about the last uh World War II draftees getting out. Um and then I went back to my hometown, finished high school, went to Alabama E and M. And really I was sharp. I knew everything. But really I was kind of sharp, you know. And I finally came to my senses and said that I'm just wasting time wasting money of my parents, minds, and the government. Because I was going on GIBL also. So I got out of the school and went into the Marine Corps.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

And that's that's the time to time when I catching up with him.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

That's a big that's a big uh decision. So when you ran into him, did you remember from you remembered him from uh church earlier?

SPEAKER_02 2:00

No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_04 2:01

Oh not right then, okay until you started having conversations about it. Okay. Wow. Wow, yeah, that's that's truly amazing. So I know well by the time you were both in the um Marines, things had gotten a little bit better, I I would imagine. Maybe just a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Very small amount.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

So what what type of um racism did you run, did you encounter? What type of racism or unfair treatment did you encounter in Quantico?

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Well at the at the time that uh we was in, that's when discrimination was being changed. Um in 1949 is when they start integrating.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

So that's when we uh got involved into to the Marine Corps. Um I found that uh if you would be a rather shy individual, uh not speaking as I say, up explaining yourself, standing up for yourself, that you would get abuse much more. And uh this is something that uh being a small guy was only a hundred and thirty-five pounds uh from now. And but uh I uh decide after I got the Quantico there that uh uh the type of services I was doing wasn't the type of service for me. I did not want to be in the food exchange portion. I wanted to be in the more technical field. And so after I signed up for two, three years. After two years, you can re-enlist. So I made it be known that I wanted out of that particular branch and go into something else more technical, where there was more uh say better fields that would prepare you for if you when you do retire out of service.

SPEAKER_04 4:18

For a better paying job, so a better paying job.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

And that's what I did. I got out of the the uh food service and I went into motion picture and repair. Oh and I went on from that. I many other trades after that, trained by the Marine Corps.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Oh, nice, very nice.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Which at the end ended up being my career when I retired.

SPEAKER_04 4:44

Oh, oh very nice. So, Mr. Harper, how about you? What type of um uh racism or the case?

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Where where do I start? Well, let's go with Quantico. Well, there was only one African-American cafe. It's called Johnson's Cafe in the little town of Quantico, which consists of cafes, cleaners, uniform shops, because mostly you're gonna find around the military base. Well, I was used as a guinea to go out and go into places to see if they would serve me.

SPEAKER_04 5:24

Uh-huh, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

And that was a challenge that I didn't mind doing. So I went in the place. I won't call the name of it, because I could because they're out of business. But when I went in in my uniform, they served me. And I says, okay, my second choice is to go get a female, dark-complexed, and see what happens. And I entered the same restaurant, but I entered in civilian clothes.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

And I sat down, the waitress came over and said, I'm sorry, but you have to stand up in here if you want to get something to go. You can't sit down in here and eat. I says, Well, about an hour or so ago you served me. So what's the problem? Well, we didn't know you were colored. I said, well, if that's the case, then why don't you give me my colored money back then? I'd love to have my money back. You don't mind that? Well, we can't do that. I says, okay. So I left. So there were several of us that went in places to see if they would serve you. And we had to report back to the commandant of the base, Liazon, and they compiled all the information. The commanding general of the base, whose name is John Wiesman, he called the Chamber of Commerce, the police department, Bolinese, which handles the uniforms, and this is a man that's really big in the town, because all the officers get their uniforms from him. And Quantico is the basic school. This is where officers get their training. So the commanding general gave that town mayor and Bolinese and all the chamber of commerce, I'm gonna give you 24 hours to integrate the town. Otherwise, I'll keep my Marines on the base. And he did so. In 24 hours, they integrated the town, except the place that I went in earlier.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 7:18

They refused. So what the Marine Code did was put a central there, and they would stop anyone that's going in if you were a Marine. It's considered off limits. And they forced them out of business. Wow. So things start changing around the base. Because this is a livelihood for a lot of people. They never realize that when you close that window, you're not gonna get any money. And the command in general has everything on the base. And that was one of the challenges that I faced. And was glad to do it.

SPEAKER_04 7:56

So they were very, very serious about integrating and they were.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Oh, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

Very, very good. So they rather they they went out of business, I suppose, to changing the way that they did things.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

And guess the cook was black and cooked the food. Well, several challenges I faced, even on the base, where um if you're driving a type of car that they don't like, uh I've been a progressive person and I've always worked extra. I work at a golf course. I wanted nice things. Um Birmingham, my family had a Burick Roadmaster. So they always had nice things, you know. And that's what I wanted. And I got in trouble for having a nice car. I got stopped. Three or four cars could go through the gate, and as soon as I put up there it stopped me. Let's see your ID and all this. Harassment. So I fought that system, and believe it or not, the old saying is I fought the law, and the law won. I fought the law, but I won.

unknown 9:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

You know, so I can say that through that uh ring correct, you have to stand for what you believe in. And I did that uh for most of my life. Uh I was able to obtain a license in the state of Virginia. I owned a restaurant, not rented, I owned it and owned the property. But the these the thing that I had to do was become a resident of the state, and I didn't know that. Uh any person that's in the military could could go into a business, but you have to be liable for the law of that state. And I was not a resident of Virginia. So I was told that I have to go to the county seat, raise my right hand, as you do when you join the military to protect the property of the United States, where you had to raise your right hand to conform with the Commonwealth of Virginia. There are laws you have to be governed by, and I did that. And then I was able to obtain a license for food and beverages. And the reasons why I did this, I selected to go to manager school because my field was food service. And there was a staff club on the base, and I said, I'm gonna go to school and come back and be the manager of this club. So the Marine Corps paid for me to go to Pax River, Maryland. And I was trained as a club manager. That means you know the front door and the back door of the whole Saban. I got back at the base and put my application in to be manager of the club. No. Uh, you know, you just don't qualify. I said, I have the credentials here. Well, we select people for being the managers. Okay, that's why I decided to go in business for myself. So the preparation to the Marine Co. paid for, and I gained. So I took this and turned it around and made an extra living for myself. And I owned that for over 20 years and sold it when I came back from Vietnam. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Special thanks to Jimmy Michael Truett and the National Montfort Point Marine Association. This episode was recorded on location at the Four Points of my Sheridan, San Diego, California, on February 28th, 2013.