The Real Estate Forum Podcast

The Real Estate Forum Podcast Series 2 Episode 14

• Craig Holowell • Season 2 • Episode 14

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The Real Estate Forum Podcast – Series 2 Episode 14

Welcome back to The Real Estate Forum Podcast!

In Series 2, Episode 14, we're joined by Sarah McCallum from Area Specialist Solution for an insightful conversation covering the ever-changing real estate market, building a successful career in the industry, and what it takes to stand out in today's competitive landscape.

Whether you're a real estate professional, property investor, business owner, or simply passionate about property, this episode is packed with valuable insights, practical advice, and inspiring stories from one of the industry's respected professionals.

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🎙️ The Real Estate Forum Podcast brings together some of Australia's leading real estate professionals, business owners, entrepreneurs, and industry experts to share their knowledge, experiences, and success stories.

Thank you for watching, and we'll see you in the next episode!

SPEAKER_00

The Real Estate Forum podcast. We're back and we are live. We've got Brent. How you doing, my man? Going well, dude. How's the day house going?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's going pretty good, man. We um we've got our first opens tomorrow, had our first opens last night, had a few people come through, so it's good.

SPEAKER_00

Has have you had many people say, like, congratulations, well done, like good on you, all that kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, thankfully we've had a fair few people reach out, and it's um it's people as well that I didn't expect as well. Like they're like, they they really like the brand and the change because it is a fair bit different to your boards that you see in public.

SPEAKER_00

My missile loves it. You know what she said? She goes, she he's a genius. Like, I'm not so sure he is. He's a genius because Day House, it's a good name because it doesn't necessarily attribute the name to you, so you could sell it one day, and it's not like, oh well, gee, I'm working for you know Joe Blow Smith at Smith Real Estate or something, you know? Yeah. You've done really well with that. I don't know if you meant that, but she thought it was pretty good.

SPEAKER_04

Well, people always people keep like congratulating me on the marketing and stuff. And I'm I I reply back to most of them and say, guys, uh, like I just paid this guy to do it. Like, I'm so dumb with this stuff. But if you employ the right people, they make the product look good. Yes. And I always that's why I plugged him up on my socials last night. I'm like, guys, this guy has done everything. You know, I've told him examples of what I want, and he's brought the product to life. And um, yeah, all the credits due to him, man, is he's a ripper. Take some credit, take a little bit. Oh, maybe a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

There we go. The crazy thing is, like, I've loved watching your evolution, and anyone that's been a longtime listener of The Potty would notice like Brent came in like super raw, like immature little fuck as he is. And now, like, you are a you're a proprietor, you're running your own business, but you've got like a levelness about you that you didn't have even 12 months ago. Like, I feel you've you've grown up. You've you've matured. I am I your dad? Yeah, thanks, bro. Saying, I feel like you've really actually matured before my eyes and the entire audience's eyes.

SPEAKER_04

Thanks, man. I um oh yeah, maybe I have a little bit. Um I I just kind of, yeah, just a bit more try to be a bit more relaxed and just don't really worry about shit. It's like a my mantra at the moment.

SPEAKER_00

Don't worry about shit.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. What book are you reading right now? I got no books, man. I've been I've it's the power of no, not no, not the power of now, the magic of thinking big. And that's one of the reasons is why I've I've taken the step and you know, created our own brand is because it's like what if it works? You know, imagine if it does work, like think big. Like a lot of people think small, and it yeah, but if if they're happy thinking small, that's good. But you know, that book, but I had been reading it for a long time, like 10 pages, and then I just like I just can't focus on it. So yeah, yeah. I'm in and out. Are you reading anything? Or just a newspaper?

SPEAKER_00

Nah, so I really I've stuffed up, I think. I I reckon I've stuffed up in a pretty big way. The um we've had in the last four weeks, we've had six people leave the office.

SPEAKER_04

I seen uh another person left.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, literally yesterday. Another one, yep, another one. And I said to him, like, Abe, what's going on? And he said something really like quite uh pertinent that I like I took to heart. And he goes, Gav, I love you to bits, but you just don't have time for any time for me anymore. Like, oh man, like that. I'm so sorry, man.

SPEAKER_04

What was what was his role?

SPEAKER_00

So he was an associate, so like a prospector, um for you and yeah, for the office. Yeah, okay. Um and I was like, wow, that that hits home. So like I'm obviously doing big numbers, right? And anyone that's been listening to the podcast knows that. And the I'm also the sales director, and so it's this really fascinating thing where when I went out on my own initially with you, Brent, when I was at the White House, you know about that, and it was just my team. Basically, I was the director of Ray White Officer, but it was just my team, you know, so it was pretty cruisy. Um, and we had a really good atmosphere, like a really good vibe. And um we didn't even go to Kmart unless we're all together, like every the whole thing was a team. And then we merged with Ray White Pack and people go, Why'd you merge? Why'd you merge? We're paying like double subscription fees, double REA fees, we were paying, you know, uh I had a I was paying a rental fee, I didn't even have a rental department, and then I was like, Well, it makes sense just to go back into Ray White Packingham, which is where I originally was from. So we moved Ray White Officer to Ray White Packham, we operated out of that one place. And then I was like, great, I'll be the sales director. What I didn't realize was how much time people require of you. And I think I underestimated this, and so I thought, oh good, you know, I'll let them be like they're autonomous, they can do their own thing. But they really want nurturing, especially the younger ones. And it wasn't until they're walking at the door saying, Gav, like, we never saw you kind of thing. That I was like, Well, geez, I stuffed up, like I've let these guys down, like I've let them down in a big way. And I reckon it's one of the things that you have to watch, mate, as you start to bring in your own like sales agents and then bring in associates with that, is just that there is now a point in my life right now where I'm going, I don't think I can do this. I actually don't think I can. I don't think I can be a sales agent and be a sales director and give both 100% energy. And so I'm like, I'm thinking I'm gonna have to make a decision here, Brent, as to either one give up sales or two find someone else to be a manager. Because I don't know if you can do it.

SPEAKER_04

I think you've yeah, like thanks for sharing that, and it's really from the heart, so it's good to sit here and listen to that. Um what you it's so hard to do, like you one of your cups is so full, right? Like your sales team is is overflowingly full, and then you've got a a director's cap on, and that cup's probably a quarter, quarter full, if that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well at the moment it's a quarter full, yeah. Yeah, the thing is, like, I so my priority is obviously the family. Everyone's obviously family is first, and then it's the clients I serve, and I will I'll go to bat and bat for them every day of the week, but then something gives, something has to give. And at the moment, it's a relationship with the staff that are probably at an arm's reach of me. Not like my immediate team, like I think my immediate team I were very good, but then my responsibility goes beyond just that. Yeah, and what they expect of me is not what I've delivered. And I'm like, well, can I deliver that?

SPEAKER_04

And I'm like, I don't know if I can. And have you kind of thought what it looks like fixed? Are you defining that now?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I'm thinking about that, how it looked. Like, do you have to get a sales manager in? Do I just like take a complete step back? Do I don't do as many sales? Like, like, do you but then if I'm not doing as many sales, that means the guys within my team, like there's no point having that many people on, so that kind of thing. And like the phone's always going off. Like, I'm getting calls as most people do. Yeah, um, so I want to make sure that I can get to them too. Yeah, but then it's like, well, I've got to make a decision here, Brent. But like there has been an exodus out of my office, and it's it's my fault. Do you think it's your fault? It's 100%'s my fault.

SPEAKER_04

So six people, six people in six weeks. Yeah, it's crazy, right? I think you you you'll see that with every every downturn of a market, and I think we touch base on this here as well. So don't beat yourself up too much.

SPEAKER_00

No, look, I think I mean some people have have quit real estate and they've like they've gone into state or they've gone into car sales. Like, yes, there is that. But ultimately, there will have been people that have left because they're unhappy in a work environment that that I've I've produced. And like I don't think I'm a bad leader, like I don't think I I'm never an angry guy, like I'm never one of those old school ones um that will come down on someone. But I think there is especially the younger generation, they want more. They want more than what I was delivering. And so if they can see that potentially there is a better place to get more, whether it's attention, whether it's support, whether it's um just someone to talk to, then they're gonna leave. Yeah, and I don't blame them.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, 100%, man. It's like we uh like Natalie and I, it's only two of us at the moment, and I said to Carla yesterday, it's like I I don't really want to like chase people and employ them at the moment because I don't feel like I'm in the position that I'll be able to be the best person for them, yeah, and then I would beat myself up if I got them to come over, and then I wasn't someone that could facilitate their growth, and and I'm just not ready for that. Let me build the build a product that works and then show people how to do it as well. So you're like in a step, maybe a couple years that ahead of me that I'm gonna go through. So it's kind of good seeing you go through it because then in two years' time when I'm going through it, I can say, Gav, remember when we had this podcast and we're coming through that shit? Yeah, I'm going through it too.

SPEAKER_00

So completely, I mean, everyone's like the goal is to you start as an associate, you become your own agent, you do well, you grow up, you run an office. Like that is, I feel like most people's dream is to do that kind of thing. Um, but now that I'm in it, I'm like, is it really what I want?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. And um how what kind of team are you running though for the listeners?

SPEAKER_00

Like, is so my my well, my team's big, so we're doing about 250 sales a year. Um, so we'll be so there's myself and I've got then uh three PAs, well kind of three and a half PAs within my team. So that's my my direct team. But then beyond that, um, at the start of the year, I was running an office with 30 plus people. Now I don't deal a great deal on the rental side of things, and that contributes to about half of that 30. Um, but then there's a sales department of 15 plus people, and uh they look to you as a leader, as a director, as someone who can answer questions. It might just be okay, can you help me out with a phone call here or an appraisal there? Or can you um, you know, Gab, I've uh this has happened to me. Can we have a chat? Definitely. Doors always open, I'll never turn anyone away. Um, but what I wasn't doing, I wasn't being proactive enough and going to them as much. We'll always have our weekly catch-ups, but I wasn't then checking in on Wednesday or a Friday and saying, hey man, like how you going with this, or where you out with that, or do you need a pinch hit with this? Like, I wasn't doing that. Yeah, um, and more to the point, I wasn't checking in on them enough that they were happy with their progression. So the guy that just left yesterday, for example, he's like, I'm not making enough money here, Gav. First time I've heard of it. But I didn't ask him either. So I wasn't saying, hey, are you comfortable here? Is there something more we can do? Um I'll just more like you know, on a Monday, go, we'll have our meetings and go, hey man, how's things going? Like, yeah, yeah, good, everything's good, fantastic, awesome, cool. See you later.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um so that was this has been like a really important like couple of months of me going, well, how can I be a better leader? And the truth is, I don't know if I can be both, Brent. So anyway, that's um I I guess for a lot of people that listen to this podcast, they probably, you know, they're not at the director stage yet. But um the the guest that we've got on today, I could be really good to chat to her about this because she has gone up and and stepped into a director role, albeit with not as big of a team. Um, but that does seem to be the lure, doesn't it? Like you want to you want to have that trajectory from sales agent to to to running your ship, like whether it's with a big brand or a boutique brand, that's the goal, right?

SPEAKER_04

I think the the whole director title doesn't really mean anything to me, to be honest with you. Um I just wanted to have something that was my own. And I feel with no offense to the big corporates and the big franchises, but to adapt with the speed of adaptability you need to have in today's world to go through a corporate chain, man. It takes months and months and months to actually change and adapt. Well, I wanted to have that fast-tracked.

SPEAKER_00

100%. Like the bigger you are, the harder you can it is to move.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, which I respect that. And one day I'll hopefully I'll have those problems. But you know, that's something that really excited me is to be able to adapt straight away, pull the trigger, make it happen. Um, and yeah, one day it's probably not gonna be like that. So just taking a couple steps back with yourself, is it just you that's like in charge of the sales team at the moment, or do you have help from anyone else?

SPEAKER_00

No, well, I've got a co-director, but she does more the rental side of things. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Um, no, it's just me. Okay. And but if you if you pay a sales manager, that's what 180 grand a year now. Yeah, be worth it. Yeah, it'd be worth it. Because I remember uh Ray White and Cramber and they I was I spoke to them a few times, um, and they were getting a sales manager, and I I remember talking about the the wages for it, and yeah, they're pretty high, but I think they're worth it. Like that size.

SPEAKER_00

This is it. So as as a sales manager, like it is, it's it's a lot, but I'm not getting paid for it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I wanted the I I thought that's what I wanted to do. Yeah, and now I'm like, I'm my phone, like as you said about the cup, my cup is definitely full of the sales arm. I'm definitely still you know, making heaps of sales, but then clearly something has has been sacrificed, and that's the the quality of happiness that my my colleagues, my staff have have had.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and then if you do drop back to say the 150 sales, and are you are you gonna still that's a million dollar dollar drop? Yeah, I don't yeah, but that gives me a lot of satisfaction.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Like, I don't know. Less stress. Less stress project is, even though the vendors are like, why's my household? I still feel that's less stress. I don't know, man. Anyway, we'll chat to our um we'll chat to our guests about this. The uh crazy thing, and I'm looking at Craig just to make sure we're not running over time, we're good. The um also, which I think probably on a more of a lighthearted note from our perspective, maybe not so much her perspective, the amount of times agents are getting caught out doing dumb, unethical shit. It's crazy. Brent, run us through what you've seen.

SPEAKER_04

Um, I I it's and I said to you guys before we started this, I said the one thing that annoys me is that people stealing people's stuff. Like, I couldn't give a rat's ass what they've done or if they've left something out. Do not go and put your hands on someone else's property, like, and then to go and post saying that, or I spoke to the council and uh the council didn't do anything about it. Tell me what happened. So, an agent, a local agent in the Berwick area, we'll say, um, had been caught dropping off boards, competitive boards, into a bin, like a big skip bin. Someone took a photo of her doing that and then posted it online. And then a couple days later, I seen a video come up on social media, right, of this particular agent talking about why she done it. Justifying it. Like justifying it. And I and I I never really comment like bad stuff on social media because I don't really get involved. I don't really care. And then that came up, and it made me think like, I'm gonna speak up for myself here because you don't have, you don't have it's not your job to go into a place, right, and act like you're the law because you've spoken to the council. That's how she justified it. Or I spoke to the council, they didn't do anything about it. So I went out there, um, grabbed these boards and put them in the bin. And to post that publicly and have a bit of justification and make yourself feel better. I'm like, hold on a second. This poor person who's paid for these boards is a new agent. It doesn't matter what kind of agent they are, actually, if they're a multi-million dollar agent, nothing gives you the right in this world to go and steal someone's product and put it in the bin because they didn't meet cancer regulations. That's like me, man, going out there pulling you over for speeding and saying, Gab, you need to pay a speeding fine. Like it's ridiculous. Citizens arrest. And it just gives agents such a bad name, and like it makes my blood boil that that lady is a mature lady and she acts like that and expects to get away from it, uh, away with it and justifies herself online, ridiculous, and it needs to be stamped out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, pretty out of touch, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I could I could say what I wanted to say, but um, there'll be a lot of profanities in there and a lot of disrespect, but I won't go down that path.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it it's I so here's the counter-argument. So, say, for example, then that everyone's doing the right thing, right? Boards go out. This is we're talking pointer boards, pointer boards out for open for inspections, they go out on Saturday morning, they get picked up Saturday night. Everyone's doing the right thing. And then you get one agent that leaves the boards out for weeks and weeks and weeks on end. Yeah. You go do the right thing, you report to the authorities. The authorities say, I'm not too busy, I can't action it. Do you then not, if you called up the agent and say, hey, get rid of your boards, and they said, No, no, I'm just gonna leave them, do you not have a right then to like say, well, I'm gonna take matters into my own hand?

SPEAKER_04

Um, I I I don't think that's the right thing to do. Like, we do see it in every marketplace. Like, we see it so much in so many marketplaces. Personally, I might leave mine out for I don't know, a couple hours after an open. But I always pick them up.

SPEAKER_00

So yours different though, but like I'll drive down, say for example, Clyde, right? Oh my gosh. And there's there's there's boards on boards, on boards, on roundabouts, like that, and you can see them in there for ages because like each week you pass it, it's like it's tilting over a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. That just doesn't it doesn't look good. Like I think, I mean, it doesn't look good from the council perspective because they're ugly to look at, um, especially the ones with my face on it. But I think then that, well, if you've done all the right things, you've spoken to the agent, you've spoken to the council, no one's done anything. Why not?

SPEAKER_04

Why can't you take it? Oh, the one thing I will say, what stopped her from being a mature professional person and dropping those boards back off to the office where they come from, or calling the agent and saying, Hey, I've got your boards, please stop doing the right thing. But she took it within her own power to go and drop them off at a bin that they've paid money for as well. So I think there's ways around it. Yeah, that's a good point. And there's some shit ways to do it, and she's probably chosen the shittest way to do it. Yeah, then being caught, and then still having the the pride to justify her actions is is kind of embarrassing.

SPEAKER_00

I um when I first started in real estate, um, I was putting boards out and I took my brother with me, and I there was one agent that kept um moving my board and putting his in front. So I was like, all right, we're gonna we're gonna fucking take this board out. So my brother is like, I'm gonna go fly kick it. So he runs out of the car, he runs up and just launches into this board and fly kicks it. I'm like, Ray is my brother's back, Ray, what are you doing? That's my board. I got karma coming. Um, all right, so we're gonna throw to Jade. Are we gonna keep Rollin'? No, we won't have a break. He's given us the wrap-up. Cool, we've got Jade coming back, and then we've got a really special guest as well. Um so we're gonna announce her shortly, but um, our favorite mortgage broker is online.

SPEAKER_04

All right, we are back, and as always, thanks so much for our long supporting sponsors. We have uh Douglas from Adaptive Fire and Electrical, we have the beautiful Jade from Eleven Financial who's about to jump on, and then we have the our fearless producer, as Gavin refers him to be. And Gavin is pissing himself laughing in the corner, so I don't know what he's laughing at. Um, from Craig Holobal Photography. And I'm gonna throw to Gav quickly because he's just losing it.

SPEAKER_00

We just were going live, and then Jade just starts gone on her own little rant. She doesn't have it, doesn't have the uh Jade. I just I just love you so much. You're so funny, and you're a bloody good mortgage broker too.

SPEAKER_03

That's good to know.

SPEAKER_00

Have you improved your golf? How'd your golf swing going?

SPEAKER_03

Not too bad. I've actually played two games since we last caught up.

SPEAKER_00

Yep, they're not called games, by the way. Rounds of golf.

SPEAKER_03

Well, whatever. I played two rounds of golf, and it's a lot harder in like the real in the real golf course, on the real golf course than it is at the range having a lesson.

SPEAKER_04

It's the hardest sport in the world, I reckon. Like I played consistently for a while, and I'm so shit. Like, I'm so shit. I'd never get better. Hardest sport in the world? Well, yeah, maybe a bit of an exaggeration. But I like it. If you haven't played squash, yeah, or MMA or something, I can that'd be pretty hard. Squash. Ah, squash is tough.

SPEAKER_03

I like it, but I can't come here and say I've got a handicap of 12 or anything like that just yet.

SPEAKER_00

Let's play pickleball. Pickleball. We'll love pickleball. Jade, when are you next time down to Melbourne? We'll get to mortgage brokering stuff.

SPEAKER_03

Not sure yet.

SPEAKER_00

We'll go to pickleball. We'll go for a pickleball. Yeah. Um, pick up game of pickleball. Now run us through, Jade. What's happening in the finance world? It's been a hot in a little minute.

SPEAKER_03

Holding on for dear life at the moment is probably what I would say. There is a lot of movement in pre-approvals, however, which I find interesting because a lot of my pre-approvals are saying that there's nothing on the market.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So yet everyone's saying that there's a lot on the market and it's a buyer's market. So I'm interested to see, I guess, what the next six months is going to hold, whether a lot more is going to come on the market, or whether a lot of vendors are holding on to their property because they're worried that they're going to sell for a loss. And if they hold on for that a little bit longer, they'll, you know, see it out. Um from a borrowing capacity perspective, we've seen a lot of investors put the brakes on, especially your sort of one to two property mom and dad investors, because their borrowing capacity has taken a really hard hit with negative gearing being removed. Um, but your volume investors, they're still moving and shaking. They think it's a good time to buy. And I don't think anything's going to stop someone who has a large portfolio, to be completely honest. They're not investing for a small tax break.

SPEAKER_00

SMSFs, would they contribute to the pre approval levels that you've seen spiken?

SPEAKER_03

Um, not really. I've got a couple of SMSF pre approvals that have come through, people with FOMO. Um, but No, I have a heap of pr um first home buyer pre-approvals at the moment.

SPEAKER_04

I you go. No, you go, Brent. I think uh every person I'm speaking to, right? Everyone's quiet. Like I bumped into Luke McGree's wife today when I was walking. Oh really? Luke's quiet. Yeah. Luke's never quiet. Luke Sparky's quiet.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not quiet. You're not quiet. I wish I was quiet. Gav's gone through a lot. Yeah. Um the there is a lot of people, like industry, like I'm not just talking real estate, like across industries that are quiet at the moment. Is it true that just no one is spending money?

SPEAKER_03

As I said, I've got lots of clients that want to spend money and they just have nothing, there's no stock for them to buy.

SPEAKER_00

So this is interesting, right? Let's talk about this because internal data from Ray White, right? Like, um, as much as I give them shit, I actually love their like a lot of the things about Ray White. But the internal data is amazing. So the the data that we've got shows that listings on the market are actually up 17% year on year. Listings on the market, but inspection numbers through our open homes are down over 20% compared to this time last year. So there's actually more listings on the market. Now, it might be that there are less listings coming to market, potentially, Jade, you're right, but they're just staying on the market longer because they're not selling. But also there's less inspectees coming through our inspections. So that is a fascinating stat.

SPEAKER_03

I have found, and I actually spoke to Brent about this during the week. I think that a lot of vendors are maybe not wanting to accept the reality of the price that their property may have dropped to over the past couple of months as well. Because if you had an appraisal three months ago, it has quite likely dropped quite a bit in the in what they could potentially get for the house. So there are some properties that might be getting offers, but the vendor is hell-bent on a certain figure that they want, which it might be highly likely that they don't get that and they could waste another month on the market before they realize oh I'm obviously not going to hit that price point. It's time to reduce it. And by then, what's getting offered today might not be getting offered anymore.

SPEAKER_04

Are you seeing many more uh bank takeovers? Because I'm hearing about them a lot more. My favorite topic. Give us a delinquency rate.

SPEAKER_03

Thank God none of my clients have had their hair taken from the banks. Um, so no, I haven't heard about I haven't heard any nightmare stories from my clients or any of my friends who are in the industry, to be honest, with their clients having houses repossessed. Um, but I'm sure there are a lot of people out there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you're probably right. Off topic, how familiar are you with British politics?

SPEAKER_03

British politics. Gavin, why do you always have to spin me these random questions?

SPEAKER_00

Because I feel like you're our mortgage broker, but like you know you're worldly, you know? Worldwide. Mr. Worldwide.

SPEAKER_03

I'm I'm not too brushed up on my English politics, but I know a little bit about the royal family.

SPEAKER_00

Did you know that there is a guy called Nigel Farage who went into office like a few months ago? Really popular, unpopular dude. Um, he was found to be embezzling money, has given up his seat in the Claxton on C seat, is re-running as a by-election. The only person that's running against him, a guy by the name of Count Binface. He's an intergalactical 50,000-year-old superhero who actually has a bin on his face. Really? He's running for parliament. Wow. I'm not kidding you.

SPEAKER_03

Is that not scary?

SPEAKER_00

But his policies are great. Let me tell you one of his policies. One of his policies is that um forced conscription for anyone playing music too loudly on trains and public transport. I can get around that. Conscription. Conscription when you get conscription to the army, like forced into the army, like a Vietnam or style.

SPEAKER_04

I think Korea has that, don't they? Yeah. There's a few actually that have it. But yeah, Singapore.

SPEAKER_03

This world is turning into a scary place.

SPEAKER_00

I think Captain Binface, vote one. We should have that in Australia, you know, honestly. He's my he's my hero. Anyway, the um the elections on the August the 13th. It's in three and a half weeks, so stay tuned.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Anyway, any other finance news, Jade? Sorry, I kind of ran off topic there.

SPEAKER_03

No other finance news. Look, what what do you guys think at the RBA meeting in August? Do you think rates will go up or stay on hold?

SPEAKER_00

On hold. There's so much indecision indecision. I actually don't there'll be a lot of parallels, to be honest, from the RBA. Like there's conflicting data on both ends. I I'm keen to get your thoughts here, but I just can't see the RBA making a decisive move either way.

SPEAKER_04

What number are we?

SPEAKER_03

I um yeah, I think that they will stay on hold, but I don't know if that is a prediction or a uh me crossing everything.

SPEAKER_00

Um this is actually the first time. Actually, I want to get your thoughts on this. First time in a long time that there has not been a unanimous decision by the experts as to what's gonna happen. Like it's a a time of flux, would you say?

SPEAKER_03

Well, ANZ are saying they think it's going to be increased.

SPEAKER_00

But then I've heard from other Westpac said not only two weeks ago it's gonna drop. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Westpac, NAB, and CBA have all set on hold.

SPEAKER_00

But Westpac came out two weeks earlier and said they're gonna like so there's there's thoughts that it could drop, is thoughts it could it rise. It's the first time I've seen where the experts aren't unanimously thinking, okay, it's either going to do up or hold. Like they're they're torn.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And you could have you could see an article today that says we predict interest rates are going to go down before Christmas. We're going to see two rate cuts by Christmas.

SPEAKER_00

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03

And then by Monday, they have a report out saying inflation's up. We expect to see a rate increase in the next RBA meeting. So everything is with a grain of salt. And we can, you know, my clients will say to me, are the rates going to go up? And I'm like, even the actual professionals don't know that yet. Like the person that makes the decision doesn't know yet.

SPEAKER_00

Michelle Bullock, let's get her on next week. Oh my god. Michelle Bullock, welcome to the Real Estate Forum podcast. Craig would have a number. Yeah, Craig, you'd have a number for sure. This guy's got everyone's number.

SPEAKER_02

I'll fly down for that.

SPEAKER_00

Jay, thanks for joining us, mate. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Have a great weekend. See ya.

unknown

Bye.

SPEAKER_04

All right. Today's guest is someone who's built her career from the ground up. Sarah McCullum didn't step straight into sales. She began in real estate as a receptionist before working her way through property management, business development, and eventually into residential sales. It's a journey that's given her a deep understanding of every part of the industry and shaped the way she she now works with clients. After more than a decade in real estate, Sarah took one of the biggest risks of her career by launching her own business under the area specialist brand. Since then, she's continued to build a reputation for honest communication, strong negotiation, and putting people first, all while balancing the demands of running a successful business and raising two small children. Today we'll dive into what it really takes to take to back yourself in business, the lessons she learned from building a brand and how the industry has evolved over the years. The mindset that's helped her become one of the most respected agents in her market. Sarah, thanks so much for jumping on the show. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_04

Was that correct?

SPEAKER_01

It was correct, yeah. But it did well, it did well.

SPEAKER_00

So let's talk about your journey. Like it's a great journey because you feel like you've experienced all things real estate. Yeah. Admin, rentals, sales.

SPEAKER_01

Lovely property management to uh than the sales. Is that sarcastic? Never. No, I'm glad I'm out of that now. Uh I feel for the girls. They do well. Well, and boys. It's tough, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, it's yeah, it's a make or break, I think. Um it's a complaints industry, so you've got to be strong to hold it out.

SPEAKER_00

So did you think it helped ground you to become a better salesperson?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think it definitely helped me like just with any situation and just how to deal with it because it was forever changing and you had to deal with so many different facets of it. So yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_04

And is sales easier than rentals?

SPEAKER_01

I think so. I think I guess there's consistency in property management, whereas sales is inconsistent with how your day is and what your numbers are looking like and dollars, whereas property management, you get your money. So it's that's sort of the main difference. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Do you would you advise someone that's wanting to get into sales to maybe start as a receptionist, admin, PM?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I think it gives them a pretty good idea of what they're getting into. I think a lot of these young kids think that you're just gonna make a butt buck ton of money and that's your life when it's but then a buck ton of money. A buck ton of money.

SPEAKER_00

Looking forward to them making it before.

SPEAKER_01

Um, but yeah, I think it helps them understand what they're getting into because I don't think they truly understand until they're in it. And then I don't know if they last necessarily that long just starting fresh into sales.

SPEAKER_00

So give us a bit of a breakdown. What are you doing in terms of your numbers at the moment?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I think I'm sort of around 50, 50 to 60 a year. Um, sales a year. Yeah. Keeps me happy. Um, I just I said I don't know how you boys do it. Um, I think just focusing on family and everything for me, doing more than that, it just wouldn't help with the balance.

SPEAKER_00

So can we just say then something? I we we spoke about this off air. I actually think that attitude is so courageous. I know the big corporations are all about doing more, doing more, doing more. And they they create an environment where they want you to do more. So it's all about recognizing the elites, recognizing those at the top of the game, improving on the numbers that you're doing, the status that you're earning. It's a huge ego trip for a lot of young men, I guess. And it's hard not to get caught up in that. And for someone to go, no, I'm I'm actually happy doing 50 or which still by the way is really good. A buck ton, is um to do 50 or 60 is still an incredible effort. But the I think it's very courageous for someone to go, you know what? No, I'm actually quite happy at this level. And not having to necessarily do more and do more. So I commend you for that, Sarah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think you know, we always naturally we see the number and you want more, but I think you sort of I just hold myself back um just to make sure that I've got my goals in place as to where I want my life to be.

SPEAKER_04

So that's important. And I think there's there's it's really um like it's sometimes scary with there's no happiness like when you're it's trying to achieve and go to the next level to actually take a step back and say, oh god, this is this this is my happiness. Yeah, like I always want more, like and I'm always gonna be wild like that. Um, but it's pretty annoying sometimes.

SPEAKER_00

Well it is, but then you go, well, something like Sarah, for example, yeah, who goes, Well, my happiness is not by getting an extra sale, it's by maybe spending an extra hour with your kids. Would that be fair to say? 100%.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I think uh there's got to a point where for an hour or two when they get home from school, it's just turn off the phone because you get so distracted. Yeah, it's like okay, this is my time, they're only young ones. So just be there with them rather than oh, yep, yep, do this, do that. It's just setting it down and just having those rules because you've got to do it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Is would you said that was your philosophy on life before having kids, or did that change you?

SPEAKER_01

No, it definitely changed me. Yeah, I think you've got more time when you don't have kids. Like, what is what are you doing? You're just living your own life, living and you're in that lane, you can just go, go, go. But I think, you know, especially them watching you and you're so important in their life that what you do and what they see is just worth more than yeah, an extra sale, an extra listing, or whatever people say, if you didn't answer the phone, well, that's okay. I'm high I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, 100%. How's your setup with area specialists? In terms of how we sort of run it or yeah, like I in the spiel there, um, you know, your own banner, like how's like for a listener, I kind of have my understanding of how it's set up. Yeah, but yeah, a lot of listeners are like, oh, what's area specialists? Like, is it sole directorship? Like, do you have business partners or what's it actually look like?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, sole directorship, but Marcus, Stacey and myself are under obviously the the brand of solutions, um, but we're not you know affiliated with money and all that sort of stuff, we're just a team brand. So um within myself, I've got Alex and Boyd works under me as well. So we sort of help each other out. And um, good team.

SPEAKER_04

So you have a team of two underneath you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Are they both sales agents?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yeah. Uh Alex is more, he's coming into that sort of role, but he's more like my PA. Um, and Boyd's his own sales agent. He's pretty self-sufficient because he's been in the for a while, so it helps me. But um, Alex, like you were discussing earlier, there is that sort of level of, well, how can I help? Am I there enough? Yeah, all that sort of stuff you face.

SPEAKER_04

So how do you keep someone in uh so Boyd? How do you keep Boyd from wanting to work under you as opposed to doing his own thing then?

SPEAKER_01

Oh look, I we're friends first. So if he wanted to do that, um it's completely fine with me. There's you know, but that's always been our goal is friends first over anything else. Yeah, I know a lot of people say it, but if he I always say encourage him, if you want to do it, do it. Um he's got it pretty good under me, but and I remind him of that, but at the same time, um, if he wanted to, uh full support because you know, uh friendship again is more important than money.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah, and if you've got so much solo like independence, right, under the area specialist brand, because they they just take care of like all the trust accounting, um, all the compliance, is it?

SPEAKER_01

Or admin, we have to do the compliance side, um, which is frustrating for me. But um, yeah, no, we do all that. They just we just send everything off for the files and everything, they do all that work for us. So, and we just approve it. So it's pretty easy, it makes my life easier anyway.

SPEAKER_00

Phil Brent's now he's gone out and opened his own company, he's asking me all these pertinent questions because he's like, I want to know what's going on. I want to pick our brain. Um, so let's talk about everyone seems to be quiet, right? So, how how are you finding things at the moment?

SPEAKER_01

Um, well, that's the part of the reason we went to Tassie the last week of school holidays, is because I was getting listings and nothing was selling. So I was like getting a bit frustrated. So I was like, Oh, I've just got to go away, um, enjoy myself. So when I was away, funnily enough, that's when the phone started ringing, as it always does. Uh, last two weeks, I think um, we've sold a lot of the stock that has been sort of sitting there, which has been nice. Oh, great period. Yeah, but it's it's been a long slog for them, I think. So three-month cycle, yeah, definitely, 100%. It's taken that um three months for some of them. Yeah, we've been lucky with a few that took a week, which was amazing and very surprising. But other than that, it's yeah, it's been pretty tough.

SPEAKER_00

Some of the markets at the moment nationally are markets that haven't been quiet for a long, long time. Queensland, Adelaide, Perth is even starting to slow down. New South Wales has been slow on for about a year. But what would you say to an agent that's starting out who they're finding for the first time a really tough market?

SPEAKER_01

I think they've just got to commit. You've just got to commit to it. Um, there's no other way. You've just got to keep on getting through it.

SPEAKER_00

Um they're not selling a house. So, for example, they're they've all been just drilled to get listings. Just get listings, get listings in this hot market. They've got a 10 listings now, and they can't sell any of them.

SPEAKER_01

Vendor management.

SPEAKER_00

What does that even mean?

SPEAKER_01

It means you've just got to have open conversations with your vendors. And whether you like it or they like it or they don't, it's got to happen. Otherwise, you're not selling anything and everyone's getting frustrated and nothing's happening. And I think that's the hardest thing to learn as an agent is how to have those difficult conversations because no one wants to do them.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I was actually thinking on the way here, uh, I was gonna do a video for our socials about if you're an owner at the moment, my number one advice to you if you've got a price that you'd take and you'd be happy with, tell your agent that. If you don't have the trust that they're gonna try and get you more after you've told them that, then they're probably not the right agent for you. Like have trust to tell them, hey, Sarah, I'm gonna I'll take 500 that I'm happy with 500. Bang. If their property is priced too high, the agent's then gonna align that price and you're gonna meet the market, you're gonna get a little bit more competition. And hey, I might get you an offer of 520, 530, Sarah. But now we're at 550, we're not selling, no one's coming through. It's shit for me, it's shit for you. Be honest with your agent. If you think you can't be honest with your agent, then you probably don't have the right agent in your corner.

SPEAKER_01

100%. I've got one at the moment sold me just because I'm telling you this figure I want to take it. You just don't stop there. I'm like, of course I'm not going to. Like it looks better for me if I get more a better result, but at least you're telling me what you want. She goes, Yeah, but you're just gonna stop there. I said, I'm not, I'm not. It's crazy. It's not my job, but you know, it helps us both get this end goal, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_04

So I think like so some um consumers have that mindset that just agent will just like get that price and sell it. Like it's the best thing ever when you've got an offer that the owner will sell, and then you they're like, Oh, we'll take it. I said, No, don't take it. I'll get it, get you a little bit more. You know, that that that's what our job to do is like yeah, we're always pushing, it's just normal.

SPEAKER_01

Make sure you look better. Yeah, it does 100%.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So, what's your plans for the future look like then?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I think just what I'm doing in five years' time.

SPEAKER_00

Tell me, could be a sales manager?

SPEAKER_01

Uh no, I I don't. I've I've uh realised that I'm quite horrible at uh the managing staff side too because of lack of time um thereof, obviously around other commitments. But um, I think just sort of keep doing what I'm doing. Um, you know, I think we always want to get better in certain aspects of it as well. Um, boyd and I've sort of been discussing around sort of rental side of things, whether that's gonna be something to do or not to do. Um, I know Marcus obviously does it as well here. Um, but yeah, a bit of growth, I think, um, but more just family time as well. It's that balance. If I can just keep my balance, then I'll I'll be happy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Are you referring to balance when you're walking on the steep tracks of Tasmania?

SPEAKER_01

That's 100% right. Uh then fearing for dear life when the kids are gonna just pump it off the edge. And then you know you've made a big mistake. I've seen that.

SPEAKER_04

I don't know who's yeah, Nikki.

SPEAKER_01

It was it was a wild time, I tell you what. It's uh we regretted it. Um because it was it was actually getting dark too. So it wasn't just how hectic the track was, it was getting dark and we were and we didn't even get to the top, we're like 100 metres away. Oh wow, and then we had to just go back down because the sun was coming down and three kids in tow, not good.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, because it sounds terrible. Yeah, I'm going back to my interrogation about how this office is set up. So I'm just sitting here and then we we we record this in the area specialist office, and there's barely anyone here ever. So I said to Sarah, I said, why does no one work here? Sarah's never been here before.

SPEAKER_00

But lie, she said she has been here once.

SPEAKER_01

Once or twice, yeah, once on a on a good day.

SPEAKER_04

But this is their office, and I'm like, So this who owns this? Are you an owner here?

SPEAKER_01

Marcus. Okay, yeah, Marcus.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, but if you want to come here, you can work here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yep, yep. Okay, and so I think Stace pops in sometimes, um, but mainly it's um Marcus and his team, Cooper Millen, um, and Kira is here as well with proper management. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but working from home, I think sounds like a dream. Is it?

SPEAKER_01

My house is clean, as I said earlier. Um but it's good for me because a clean house for me is makes my day just go into the right direction. Anything clean around me, it just makes me happy.

SPEAKER_00

So if you've got a sales agent, right, again, this is advice for someone that I've never worked from home. Um would would you encourage people to be working from home as a sales agent?

SPEAKER_01

I think starting at no, um, I think some people do need that atmosphere of an office. So that's where I'm sort of balancing with Alex as well. Um, Boyd, obviously, with the respect, but we're both equally busy with families. But um I think there is very much importance, and Alex does training with the boys as well here because I need him to have that team element and I need him to sort of bounce off people, and I think it's important for them for growth. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00

What about you, Brent? Now you're starting your own thing. Do you reckon you'll be working from home a bit more?

SPEAKER_04

Ah god though. I'm working in the office more. Like I I just I I just love the I love my office. Like, I'm building a place where I want to be. Yeah. I think that's what I love about it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and that's cool. Um, what about your staff then? You gonna let them work from work from home?

SPEAKER_04

Um not stuff them. No, I I don't no. Natalie doesn't really want to. Like Natalie loves working. Like I Natalie loves being around me. Like it sounds weird saying that, but I don't know. I think we just we just love being around each other. Uh is that weird saying that? Well, it might change.

SPEAKER_00

This might change because you how long until you're due, personally.

SPEAKER_04

Uh uh December. She um Natalie might get sick of it. Who knows? Maybe maybe she'll start working from home.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think you might start working from home a bit once you've got a kid.

SPEAKER_04

I've probably got to make me work at the office more man, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00

Apologies, sorry, babe, those nine nine o'clock in the afternooning appointments.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Um, what what's what's your biggest struggle at the moment, Sarah?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I think it is just more around the mentality of um time frame on the market and things selling, and you know, you're constantly sort of just thinking about it. Well, I do because I can't switch off from it, um, is just making sure that everyone's on the right path and I'm doing everything I possibly can. And then people naturally sometimes can get frustrated, and it's just not taking that personally. It's like, okay, I'm doing my job and I'm doing it right. It's just a natural process, but it is keeping your mindset strong to just push forward in a market that is challenging.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and what Sarah just said is probably one of the biggest takeaways. You can ever come from your real estate career, do not take anything personal, like at all, because you you won't like it, you'll quit real estate. I've seen so many people quit real estate because they can't break the barrier that don't take shit personal. People aren't gonna like you, people hate me, people hate all of us here. But at the end of the day, it's not personal. So you can't make everyone happy in a real estate transaction.

SPEAKER_00

That could be PM though. I feel like the only time you get caught up as a rental agent is if the owners are complaining or the tenants are complaining. Yes. So you're probably used to that now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, there's elements of that. But uh, you know, this one of it's solely your job to make a sale, uh essentially. Um, whereas the property management had all sorts of different departments of it as well. So sort of shift along and do things.

SPEAKER_00

So from you, and we'll wrap this up pretty soon, I think Craig's given us the old stare. Um from a prospecting level, do you you've been doing this now for a long time, what, 10 years?

SPEAKER_01

Um Yeah, sales around around that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Would you would you still prospect or is it more referral based now? People come to you?

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah, you wouldn't see me prospecting much. Um That sounds horrible, but um Alex does a lot of my like letterbox drawings and that here and there, which you know we just still do for the purpose of it, but um mainly referrals.

SPEAKER_00

It's a great place to be, isn't it? And I think anyone that gets to that level where you can just rely on on um referrals is you've done really well for a career that's getting 50, 60 sales a year. That's an awesome place to be, mate.

SPEAKER_04

What um pretty cool. Uh did you fear when you left were you at Harcourts? Yeah, yep. Did you feel that you're gonna leave your whole career behind starting your own brand?

SPEAKER_01

Uh not really, because I just had my second um Daisy. So I really just I just went for it because I thought, what do I have to lose? I've just come out, I've got a second kid now. Um, like really, I know Marcus had my back, Stacy was um coming along as well. So I was like, what is there to lose? There is nothing. So I just went for it.

SPEAKER_04

Because you guys hit the ground running pretty quickly. Yeah. Um but is that just based on the referrals that you had from the previous employee? You reckon they just started to come in and you know you kept on going, or was there anything you'd done differently to get your brand back out there straight away?

SPEAKER_01

I think it was just social media was a big part of obviously pushing it out there. Um, and I think a lot of people quickly sort of, you know, knew what was happening. And I guess the names, especially, you know, Marcus, myself, and then Stace as well, knowing them.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, it obviously took some time. I think it took maybe six to twelve months to really start building. Um, and then from the last sort of two years, definitely the business has obviously been a lot more successful in that just getting name out there.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I think that's I'm very, you know, cautious of is that it's we'll sorry, conscious that it will take 12 months to get back doing the numbers that we're doing, hopefully more. Um, I've even noticed with Marcus, like he's doing heaps in like Phillip Island and stuff now, isn't he?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he lives down that way. So he he I think he was trying to sort of maybe steer clear a little bit closer to home, but um, I think it makes sense. Like I love selling blind bikes where I live. I I love it. I um it's nice and easy, it's close, and that's why I like to sort of stick around those areas as well. Because um, yeah, but I think you're sort of at the moment you take them when they come, and if they're you know a good sale and a good go, you you'll do it.

SPEAKER_00

So off topic, blind bite. What when have you ever eaten something blind blind? Where does that name come from? Blind bite.

SPEAKER_01

I think uh the bite is B-I-G-H-T, so it's like you know, the yeah, but well, you know, you'd be surprised. No one's heard of it, really, so it's good.

SPEAKER_00

And what's blind about the bite?

SPEAKER_01

Me, no.

SPEAKER_04

Do you love it out there?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I love it. I've lived there my whole life, so um yeah, yeah, we've got a few houses in there now, and um, it's like I say it's a monopoly board.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so if I if I get a listing out there, I'll call you to bite.

SPEAKER_01

Nah, you can call me to sell it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, great answer.

SPEAKER_00

So thank you so much for joining us on the Real Estate Forum podcast. It's been a pleasure having you on.

SPEAKER_04

Thanks, Bonnie. Thanks so much, we appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you very much, guys, for joining us on the podcast this week. As I said, I think our next guest will be Michelle Bullock from the RBA. Craig's already calling her right now, so it's gonna be an exciting one next week. If we can't get Michelle Bullock, we'll probably get someone local. Um, Brent, thank you again, my man.

SPEAKER_04

Thanks, dude. It's been a pleasure. Uh you you have to get a guest next time. Yeah, I'll get Michelle Bullock.

SPEAKER_00

No, you won't. That can be my guest.

SPEAKER_04

Maybe. Um, and yeah, Sarah, you've been amazing. I don't think I've ever met you in person. I've walked past you and stuff before, but to actually meet you in person, you're a very lovely guy. Do I say hello? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, maybe about my coffee story, like just leave me alone. Um, but no, you you're a lovely person, it's really nice.

SPEAKER_00

Who should we get on next week? Who's someone that's been a huge influence in your career?

SPEAKER_04

Marcus won't come on.

SPEAKER_01

That's a good question. I'll have to think about it. All right, get back to us. She needs to be fine to French. Yeah, I'm like, hang on a second.

SPEAKER_00

Um, we'll get someone good. When I say we, it won't be me. You'll get someone good. It'll be great, your brain. Anyway, guys, thank you very much for joining us. Um, have a fantastic weekend, and we'll catch up with you in a fortnight.

SPEAKER_04

And subscribe if you watch this. There's like 20,000 people that watch it every week, and we've got like 150 subscribers. So it would mean a lot to us if you can click that bell icon and Craig would be very happy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and if you see us in the street, don't talk. Don't talk to Brent. Say hello to me. I will uh I'll give you a high five. Thanks, guys.