Worship 2.0 Podcast | Worship Music by Don Moen & Ron Kenoly
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Worship 2.0 Podcast | Worship Music by Don Moen & Ron Kenoly
Alvin Slaughter
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Join us with Alvin Slaughter, Worship Leader for the Hosanna Music Projects 'Revive Us Again', 'God Can' and 'Rain Down'. These THREE projects feature such songs as 'God Is With Us', 'God's Gonna Do It Again', 'We Give You Thanks', 'Thanks', 'He Is Here', 'Lord Be Glorified', 'Oh The Glory Of Your Presence', 'Revive Us Again/Revive Us Lord/Give God The Glory', 'Shouts of Joy', 'God Can', 'More Than Enough', 'Holy, Holy, Holy', 'Our Help Is In The Name of The Lord', 'Jesus, Lord To Me/Alleluia', 'The Wonders of His Hands', I Love Your Lord/You Are Worthy To Be Praised', 'When We All Get To Heaven', and 'Holy Spirit Rain Down'.
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Welcome to the Worship 2.0 podcast, and we are blessed today to have the worship leader for three great Hosanna projects, Revive Us Again, God can and Rain Down. Here today with us, Elvin Slaughter. Welcome, Elvin. Hey, Dave, good to be with you.
SPEAKER_03Thank you for uh for having me on your program today.
SPEAKER_00Did that uh song, All the Glory of Your Presence, which is from that Revive Us Again project, did that bring back some memories for you?
SPEAKER_03It did. I don't think I've I don't think I've heard that in probably more than 20 years. So at first, I'm like, man, that sounds familiar.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, that was a great project. I I love that project. You know, you had God is God is with us, God's gonna do it again. We give you thanks. Thanks. Uh He is here. Lord be glorified. All the glory of your presence. Revive us. I mean, I mean, that that is one of my favorite pro I mean, I don't maybe the other guys are listening, but uh, that's one of my favorite projects.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that was that was my first Hosanna live project with uh Tom Brooks and with the uh at the time they were called Lee College, now they're Lee University. Yep. But that was my first project with them. And uh, you know what's funny about that is that that was, oh gosh, 30 years ago? I don't even remember. It was a long time ago. And I still see, and a lot of them who sang in the choir, the choir that you hear, they were all college students. You know, some were freshmen, I don't know if they had many seniors in there as well. But a lot of them now, you're talking 25, 30 years later, I still see a lot of them. They're still involved in church and in worship and parents, and some of them were even grandparents. So it's exciting to hear that because I can still see the faces of them from 30 years ago, and to know that they're still serving the Lord in different capacities is pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Lee College, because uh, well, you probably know Larry Goss. Larry, Larry Goss did some uh the great orchestrator. Uh he did some things with Lee College too.
SPEAKER_03But uh Well, Larry, Larry did um, I met Larry when I was in the Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir back in the 80s. Yep. Larry was producer for all those albums. And uh what a lot of people don't know, my very, very first recording I did, which was a custom recording, and I was working in an alarm company, and my boss loaned me the money to make a uh a cassette back in those days, which you know, which I it's I I think it was like $10,000. You're talking about $10,000 back in the 80s. I thought that was like a million, I thought that was like a million dollars, and I'll never be able to pay it back. But here's the great thing that happened, it was such a blessing. Um, I when I made the recording, uh it was a custom recording, and I used the musicians from the Brooklyn Tabernacle to play on it. They played on it for free. But here's the beautiful thing about it Bill Gaither, I met Bill Gaither doing some praise gatherings with the Brooklyn Tab choir. Bill Gaither let me use his studio. I think it was like some ridiculously low price. I don't even remember. And then when we got there, you know, we're young and young and dumb, all of us. We didn't even have a hotel to stay in. So he let us stay at uh on the on his guest house for free.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow.
SPEAKER_03And then on top of that, Larry Goss drove up from Nashville all the way up to um uh Indi, I think it's Indiana, where his where his studio, where uh Gaither studio was. And he drove up and he produced the album for free. No expenses paid, nothing.
SPEAKER_00Oh my word.
SPEAKER_03So between Gaither and Larry Goss, they they were a real blessing to this old old Brooklyn boy. So I I could never thank him enough.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, Larry did a project for me. Did he really? Nobody it's called We Will Ride, and Larry arranged and orchestrated the whole project, and it was all done in Nashville with uh you know the Nashville strings and everybody down there. Yeah, and and we had Larry up at our church because we had like a 50-piece orchestra and all that stuff, and Larry came up and we did an we did a night with Larry at church. It was awesome.
SPEAKER_03Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah. Larry had a huge, huge heart, and he was an amazing orchestrator. I mean, the guy he he he played incredibly well, but he's an orchestrator, and what a great heart. I just loved working in the studio with him.
SPEAKER_00Then you did uh God Can, and that was a great project, too. You had shouts of joy, God Can More Than Enough, love that. Holy, holy, holy. Our help is in the name of the Lord, Jesus Lord to me, going into Hallelujah, love that one. The wonders of his hands, I love you, Lord. Uh, which goes into You Are Worthy to be praised. When we all get to heaven, we we we did a number of those. Um, we did a lot of Brooklyn Tab stuff, but we did we did a couple of we I know with that. When we all get to heaven, people love that. Yeah. And and Tom Brooks produced that, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Tom produced that as well, and we had just amazing. I mean, I when I turned around to see who was playing behind me, I was so intimidated. You had Abraham LeBrial and bass, yeah. You had Phil. Who was Phil's last thing? Phil played for a lot of different artists, uh, Christian artists, but he also played for people like Roberta Flack and other people like that. Phil, incredible, Carl Brock was still out there. He was playing drums. And then we had uh like a was it 200, 250 voice choir that was comprised of all the different churches that, you know, some of them that I, well, most of them I'd been to, but it was an open call, and it was about 250 people from different choirs, and we did it at a church in Long Island. And that was a great event, it was also a very intimidating event, you know, because it was a big project. It had like seven cameras, my first time ever doing a video shoot. But we had a great night. It was in New York, which is you know, I'm a I'm a native New Yorker, and uh it was very, very special to me. So, yeah, again, I mean, I I am I'm just in awe that God would allow me to be in the middle of doing something like that. So it was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you had Bethel Gospel Tabernacle, Christian Life Center, Highland Church, Pilgrim Church, Upper Room Ministries. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Wow. It was pretty daunting, pretty intimidating, but pretty amazing at the same time.
SPEAKER_00Well, it it was anointed, brother. It was anointed. Thank you. And then you and then you did uh now this one wasn't Tom Brooks, though. This was I'm trying to think of who produced this uh that um rain down, the rain down project.
SPEAKER_03And that rain down, I believe, was Paul Mills.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Paul Mills. Paul Mills did that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. And Paul's amazing. You know, Paul had done a bunch of different recordings for different artists uh there in Nashville. We we recorded that down in Nashville, and we did uh I did a couple of projects with Paul Mills. Um but I think that one was you mentioned Rain Down. Rain Down, we had um we did that. Oh, we did that also with Lee College. No, no, no, was it? No, yeah, we did with Lee College Choir. I did a few projects with Paul. We did one called Yes, we did Rain Down. I think we did uh yeah, we did, yeah, those two I think we did with Paul. Just an amazing guy. I haven't spoken to him in a little while, but just an amazing, amazing guy.
SPEAKER_00Well, and that song is one of my favorite songs, Holy Spirit Rain Down, with Russell Frager, which by the way, uh, we had Russell on uh on the podcast too with Russell, he wrote that song.
SPEAKER_03And uh yeah, you know, I had I sang at a couple of the two or three of the Hill Song conferences in uh in uh in Sydney, but also in New Zealand. We did one. And I'll never forget the first time I went there. Um, I was recording on one of their albums, and it was myself, Ron Cannoli, and Darlene. We did the Shout to the Lord 2000. So we're talking 2000.
SPEAKER_02Yep, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And uh and Ron, Darlene, and I did the did the you know, did the lead on that song together. It's kind of a you know a remake, sort of, yeah of the original Shout to the Lord, which kind of took over the 90s, that great song. And um, I'll never forget, you know, flying to Australia for the first time, the time zone, it was like a 14-hour time difference. So when I get there, when I get there after flying, like, you know, it seemed like forever, I couldn't sleep. And uh, and I I really didn't know a lot about the Hillsongs church. And uh, you know, the great thing I feel about the opportunities that God has given me is that I've been in churches of all different races, backgrounds, denominations. You know, I'm just I'm this I'm just this dude who grew up in Brooklyn in the ghettos, and uh, and then God allowed me, you know, to spend time at my home church, which is Brooklyn Tabernacle. I never thought I'd be traveling and singing, and then before you know it, after 10 years of being there, God just began to open doors and different things, which I was reluctant to do because I loved being in my home church. But um, I I'm in here I am now in Australia, and I didn't know a whole lot about Hill Song, so I started playing some of their music in the song that I played until I fell asleep because I couldn't sleep. This was a different time zone, was Holy Spirit raised now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And uh and then I had the opportunity of meeting Russell, and we're still friends, you know. Uh I was I was at his church here, he was in DC or somewhere near there the last time I was with him. But we messaged we message each other from time to time. And uh just you know, great people. It's it's really, you know, it's just amazing, even to talk about it, because I probably haven't talked about albums and stuff I've done in the past for many, many years, you know, because I keep moving forward. But I do have such incredible memories and a grateful, grateful heart that God would allow me to do this. This was not my intention. I had no intention of being a gospel singer, worship leader, traveling the world. I I I just I just loved being in my own church and serving in whatever capacity, you know, that I could find a need and fill it, and that I was able to uh you know to do it well for you know for the church, but also as unto the Lord.
SPEAKER_00Well, what an experience growing up in and and Brooklyn Tab. We would do up most of all the Brooklyn Tab stuff with our choir. We we love Brooklyn Tab. Matter of fact, I went to Brooklyn Tab at a music conference one year they had at the church there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was awesome. Oh man, that's great. And I uh what was the you did and you did an arrangement of thanks with uh the Brooklyn Tab, right? Didn't you do that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I singled I sing on two or three of the albums back in the day. Yeah. I did thanks. I did Give God the Glory, another song that was done back in the day.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_03And and um I still um I recorded on not the very last album, the album before that. Um I recorded a song as a special guest on the Brooklyn Sabernacle choir album. Matter of fact, I'll be going there. Um I'm not sure what the time of this of our podcast is right now, but I'll be going there again in another two weeks to lead worship and sing special music with the choir. So I I I uh so I toured with the choir uh was it two years ago? So I still have a close relationship with them, with uh Carol and Pastor Sempler, who I love. I've known them for decades and decades, because that was my home church. I I I assisted Carol for many, many years in the choir, teaching the choir songs and stuff like that that Carol wrote. And uh, you know, I'll tell you the truth, that was probably not was is of all the things that I've done traveling in different parts of the world, which has been just still amazing and still doing it. Um, but my greatest experience was being in Brooklyn's Abbenagle, because that was my home church. I wasn't I was I wasn't looking to travel the world, travel anywhere. I just was looking to go to church, be a part of the ministry there, what God was doing, uh being part of the Tuesday night prayer meeting and being part of the it was my greatest experience because it was my not just my well my gift was able to be used, but it was also my community. It were the people that knew me and I knew them and and I still see, you know, still see them from time to time. I don't live in Brooklyn anymore. I'm still in New York, but I'm more upstate about six or seven hours away. But uh yeah, that was a great experience that I could never ever ever forget. It was the foundation of what I of what I do today.
SPEAKER_00A great church and a great ministry that has touched the world with their music, let me tell you. That's touched the world, yeah. But uh now what are you doing these days, Alvin? Tell me all that's going on. I know you got a lot of things going on.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, I I I do business as well, uh, but most of what I do is still traveling. My wife and I, my wife is a marriage coach, uh-huh. And, you know, uh we both went through some you know different relationship situations many years ago. And then when when we came together years ago, we was very different. You know, I'm this black dude from the city. She kind of grew up in Amish territory in Canada.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03And uh, and then here you have these two people from such totally diverse backgrounds and ways of doing things, but we loved each other, and we had to learn how to have a good marriage that God loved. See, to me, worship is so much more, and we'll probably talk about it later, but worship is so much more than just the music. I think in a lot of times we focus on just the musical aspect of what we do in worship. But to me, worship is just my whole heart pursuing God, which includes how I treat my wife and my relationships. Because I don't want to be, I don't want to be guilty of just what I do on stage is, you know, honoring God, but when I come off stage, it doesn't honor God. And so we we we began to study uh intently and intensely we began to study about marriage and relationships because we don't want to end up, you know, uh having ministry but not having a good marriage. And in the process, we we both were gonna try our our our hand and coaching marriage couples, but I realized I don't think I have the same patience like she has. You know, she she listens and listens to me. I'm I I I want to say, okay, you do this, then you do this, now get out of my office. So I figured that wouldn't work real good. But yeah, so she so she goes. So what we've done in uh over the last few years is we'll still go out and I will sing, but she will come up and she will she'll she'll speak on uh what we have learned as people who have faced our own difficulties of life and how we have learned how to become one. Because many times when you marry, you know, you may you may love each other, but you're probably not one yet. Not until you've been through a few storms and been through a few different things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And you're still standing and loving one another. So she also does coaching with uh with couples virtually all around the world.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_03And so matter of fact, she she'll be speaking another couple of weeks. She'll be speaking at a women's conference, I think, in Pennsylvania. But uh, yeah, so and I'm I still go out and uh uh we still do that, and I still go out and we sing and and uh do concerts and I still love singing with choirs. You know, it's not a it's it's not most a lot of churches don't have choirs anymore, but because I'm kind of known as a choir guy, though particularly a choir, but we'll still do worship tunes and I still do solo stuff.
SPEAKER_00So but uh well listen, how can how can they uh contact you or uh for your ministry and the ministry that you have with your your wife? You have a website or something they can go to, or yeah, most of what we do is on social media.
SPEAKER_03So if you you you can go to um alvinsawder.com, which will lead you to social media, but we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, yeah. Um, and that's how how most people uh connect with us these days. Oh, and you know, there's always this there's contact information through Facebook and through uh and through Instagram. So it's so different than how it used to be. I mean, years ago, everything came through telephone calls. I can't think of the last time I got a phone call inviting us. Everything is through email, Facebook, and Instagram, which is it's it's cool, you know, it's great. So that way you can answer it from anywhere, anywhere in the world. So yeah, yeah, so we're we're uh we're still out here and if if uh if God opens the door, we we try to walk through it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, we you touched a little bit on that worship aspect, and that's that's my last question I have for you here is what is your perspective on uh where worship is at these days in the local church?
SPEAKER_03I guess the thing that the the thing that I that I get concerned about is when we talk about worship, are we talking about worship or are we talking about music? I mean, if you if you look at the Pharisees, the Pharisees prayed three times a day, the Pharisees uh paid their tithes, they did all the right things, but their hearts were far from God.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03And my only concern, I don't, you know, look, I there's this great new music, there's bad new music, there's great older music, there's bad older music. But where are our hearts? You know, I mean, do do we have a heart that's after God? To be honest with you, I would rather hear, I'd rather hear a worship team that don't have all their notes in place, that aren't the greatest musicians, but they have a heart of God that can bring like a sweet fragrance into place.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03Whether than someone that's totally polished. Don't get me wrong, I love polished. Yeah, I love it. I love I what I rehearse with groups and choirs, I rehearse them hard. But I don't want us to be so professional, so that we work so hard that we can just depend on our great gifting and not on our great God.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_03And I get concerned about that in this because we we do, you know, I grew up in an era where worship included the entire what we do, say, in a service, you know, of course it includes our life, but worship was from beginning to end. Now we we call worship just the musical aspect, and in a lot of ways it feels very concert-ish. And look, I'm a concert artist too, so I get that. But a great concert doesn't always mean that it's great worship. I mean, if if if I'm if I'm talking to my wife uh and telling her I love her, but my heart and mind is on someone else or on myself, do I is it a pure moment?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03So so what so what I long for is worship that makes me almost seem invisible. When I do a concert, it's different than when I'm leaving worship. When I do a concert, yeah, you do a little more things vocally or whatever it is. When I'm leading worship, even the way I've done albums in the past, I would do it a little bit differently. Like when I lead worship, like I'll be a Brooklyn Cabin in another week or two. When I lead worship, I don't do a lot of singing. I want the people to sing.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03So so I want to hear I and I want them to hear themselves singing. Yes. But if it's just if it's just great artistry, I mean, I can get that from a secular concert. Right. I mean, and it'll it'll probably be better than what we can do. You know, they got better, but bigger budgets and everything else. I I just encourage people, I'm a guy that's been a long time. So I'm not gonna be like, well, you know, back in the old days, we did it like this. I'm not saying that it was always pure then. I just believe that what we do in the secret place will be reflected when we're on stage. Right. So let's make sure that what we do in the secret place is something that's gonna touch the hearts of people. Because my biggest concern as a worship leader is number one, I want to be I want it to be pleasing to God. The second thing I want to be concerned about is that out there in that audience is someone that just got a bad report from the doctor, and someone got a good report. Someone just got a promotion in the job, someone just got fired, someone just heard that they had a baby, that they have to have a they're having a baby, and someone just lost their baby. So, how can we take this experience now that we're bringing and bring the peace of God that passes all understanding on the hearts of the people that we're standing in front of? How can we take our songs and our experience and allow people to have beauty for hours? And a garment of praise for a spirit of heaviness. Those are the things that permeate my mind very strongly when I'm standing on stage. Not just, you know, uh, this song is really cool, or what's the highest song out there? Those things are all cool, but they're very, very much secondary to the experience that we want to have to encounter God in a fresh and a new way, week after week, day after day, especially if someone's listening and they're leading worship every week.
SPEAKER_00Right. Well, yeah, you know, my in my head a great pastor that had just a heart for worship. And so when I would put worship together, at the end of that worship, if the people were in the presence of God, that was a successful if they were if they if they were not in the presence of God, then I I missed it. You know, and sometimes it's sometimes it's majestic and uh and other times you just bring it down and just very gentle, and but but God's there. The presence of God is there. And we visit churches uh occasionally with my wife when I go in and I usually end up being mad. You know, I turn to her and I say, Can you sing back to me just one of the songs that they did for quote worship today? No, can't you can't sing it back to me.
SPEAKER_03You know, my wife and I we we do the same exact the same exact thing. Whereas, you know, uh the worst thing for a worship leader to be, and and and I say this I hope what I'm saying is I'm saying it the right way, is to be insecure. And the reason is when they're insecure, they will try to do things to make the audience respond. And and and I'm not, and I say make the audience respond instead of encourage them. So, in other words, come on, let's praise the Lord. And I do all that stuff too, to some degree, and I've done it as an insecure worship leader at times myself, where you wanna you feel that I'm successful by the loudness of the crowd, by the involvement of the crowd, by this, then I feel successful as opposed to to be did did we not touch the guard, touch the heart of God? Did not our hearts burn within. That's more important. But if you're insecure, then you're more of a cheerleader than you are of a worship leader. And I don't want to be just, I don't, I don't want to just be a cheerleader. Yeah, do I want people to experience joy? Yes, but I want to be real. Do I do I do I do I want people to be broken? Yes, but but not just because it's it's it has a beautiful melody, but because they're broken in the presence of God, so God can take their pieces, their hearts, those things that we put before him, and he can mold it back together and breathe new life. That's what's important to me as uh in in worship, not all the nuances. And I do I do get concerned about the nuances of, you know, uh, because we're we're we're we're super gifted, we got great bands, we got new songs, our songs are becoming mainstream. I just heard that on uh uh on American Idol, which I've been watching a long time, that they did a night of worship on uh or faith or something they did on American Idol, uh, some worship leader or worship leader one. And I think that's awesome. I think it's amazing. But I also know that with everything that happens, I I tend to be a little overly analytical, not judgmental, but analytical, in the sense that even back, I remember when I was recording for integrity back in the days, eventually a lot of those companies were either went away or they were bought out by secular companies because they felt there was money in it.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_03So if if if if in right now in the faith community and in Christian community, if songs are are are being bought by a lot, you know, being purchased a lot and they're getting charted and selling a lot of you know a lot of streams and stuff, then of course you're gonna have the interests of secular companies, which eventually may whatever person want to call it, but let's just say for all uh uh intents and purposes, they want to water down the message of Christ and just talk about you know love and stuff, which is cool, which is cool. I like love too. Yeah, but at the end of the day, I'm not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ because it's still the power of God to salvation, you know.
SPEAKER_00And the the best times that I recall of worship, it's like nobody remembers who the who the worship leader was or the or the great or the great guitar solo or whatever. What they remember is the the presence of God was there. That absolutely you know, and so nobody gets caught up with well, what wasn't he just a fantastic well but was the presence of God there? Uh no. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And and and and I and I'm cool with with I'm cool with you know some someone who did a great riff and stuff, but again, to me, I consider a concert different than a worship experience.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_03Because the concert, yeah, if you if someone has a great gift, they get an incredible drum solo, uh, the guitar is shredding, the bass line is thumping. Hey, I love that too, because as Christians, we need we need to have good, clean music that we can sing and dance on. But and and and I'm not saying we can't feel the presence of God even in a concert setting, but I'm saying that if we want to call it worship, let's make it first and foremost about touching the heart of God and then God breathing on his people. That's what I that's that's worship. I don't consider, I do not consider every single service that has Christian music a worship service. It may be fun and LS, I mean, I think it's cool, there's nothing wrong with it. I mean, if my wife and I want to go on a date, it's one thing if her and I are going on a date. It's another thing if we're going out and just hanging out with with a bunch of people. The date with her and I is more intimate. Yeah, we can talk about things that are more, you know, that that that are more we we can share our hearts with each other. But if we're hanging out with other people and having fun and they can be Christians, we're hanging out and just it's it's more about you know just having fun and and the external. But I consider worship more of uh of intimate. And when I say intimate, it could be joy or it could be quiet. Right. But it's connecting, it's the connecting of us with God and God with us. Um and and I I dare to think that that would get lost behind just great music.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah. Yeah, and and a lot of people they're they're totally they're not uncom they're very uncomfortable just to be in the presence of God, to linger there, to just I love you, Lord. I love you, you know, they're they're uncomfortable with that, you know. Now they can do the the little clapping hand things, and that's I'm thinking, yeah, but why don't you just love God for a few minutes here?
SPEAKER_03I think that yeah, I think that a lot of that happens to be uh cultural. And when I say cultural, I'm not even talking about it could be denominational culture, it could be because of what you know how we see other people do things on on on Instagram or or whatever it is. So it becomes uncomfortable because it's not what we what we're used to seeing, right? What we're not used to to experiencing. Right. So when where I grew up as a teenager in the ghetto, I went to a great church, it was a black church in the ghetto, and I loved it. And at first it was a Baptist church, and then a new pastor came in and it turned Pentecostal. So the styles were totally different. And when and and when the Pentecostal church came in, you know, and more people that were Pentecostal came in, they were speaking in tongues and children running around the building. It scared me because we didn't we didn't do that when I was we didn't do that when I was Baptist. Yeah. So so so so then then when I started traveling, I noticed the same kind of thing. I'm doing a I'm singing at Nazarene churches, I'm singing at Baptist churches, I'm singing at Pentecostal churches, I'm singing at white churches, I'm singing at black churches, I'm singing at non-denominational churches. I'm saying, and they all had different things that were important to them. One church you go to, you know, if you sing about heaven, they love it. You sing about heaven in another church, they sit there and look at you. You go to you go to another church, like one pastor says, we like fire songs, fire, like fire songs. I don't think I have anything that talks about fire. You know, so in other words, it becomes this church subculture of what we're used to.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03As opposed to, and I'm not I'm not putting that down because everyone's different. I mean, you may go to one church and they like seven gospel, and you go to another, and um uh you you you go to another church and they like interpret praise and worship. You go to another one, they like hymns. So I I respect that because that's what we're used to. But let's not get lost in the fact that at the same time that God can meet us in a way that's different than what we're used to. And many times he does.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03You know, because because we can get caught up just in a oh man, I remember that song when I was a kid. My mama sang that song to me. I'm touched by it because mama sang it. But um, but am I touched by it because the Holy Spirit is having a fresh encounter in my heart and wants to do something inside of me and break up the fallow ground, or he wants to give me new insight, new direction, fresh faith, right? Fresh fire.
SPEAKER_00But he gives you the sensitivity through the Holy Spirit to know okay, the people that are here, you know, he can direct you in a certain direction. Uh yes, sir. You know, absolutely. And once you've experienced though, like, you know, the you experience the presence of God at Brooklyn Tab. You know, it's like, man, this is well, then you go you go some other place, it's like dry as whatever, you know, and so you have to be very set, you know, they people can get offended very easy, but there's probably a way to just kind of ease them in to that, you know, because they've never experienced anything deeper than that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. There is something that happened that when you experience when I first went to Brooklyn Town, again, I wasn't used to a church that was multicultural. I wasn't used to their types of uh music and singing, but I could not deny, as a broken guy, when I first went there back in whenever it was years ago, I could not deny that God was dealing with me. And uh the first time I went there, I I couldn't even say I left because I had it it was God was dealing with me in a way and and I felt a combination of conviction, but I felt at the same time I felt incredible comfort. And um it it was it was just two conflicting feelings that I didn't know how to how to uh how to harvest. So I just kept coming back until about a year later, you know, I ended up just you know giving be giving my heart back to God again and and you know and it was just it went from there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. See, I I grew up in a a very traditional church, and then when I got exposed to these Pentecostal people, I came back and talked to my pastor. He says, Hey, how can we never clap our hands at church, you know? Much less, much less lift lift our hands. And his answer, this is a leader in the church, he says, It's not the Dutch way. He says, It's not the Dutch way. I says, It's in the Bible, it's in the Bible.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know. Well, you know, it's it's funny you say that because you know, uh especially in the 90s, when Hill's song came out, there was a different sound that was coming out. A lot of churches were still doing um hymns, and even some churches were doing some of the traditional um uh integrity music stuff. And I literally were were uh was going to churches where the Baptist churches said, Why do you go to some of those crazy Pentecostal churches? And the Pentecostal church was saying, Why do you go to those dead Baptist churches? You know, and uh and I I and and some of them did not want to be like the others, so they did it, so they that's why they didn't want to have raising of hands, that's why they didn't want to have clapping, because then they figured, you know, they would be in the same or viewed as being in the same camp as some of those who've gone too far. Oh, now what's next? Getting slain in the spirit, you know, and and and there was excesses in certain things, you know, you know, so so so there was the caution, but we have to still go back to what the Bible says, and that's more important than just you know uh what the cultural thing. But I do understand to some degree when some people say uh that's a little bit out there for me, or others say, yeah, you know, um, yeah, you know, you know, we we just need to take our our our ways of being and saying, God, I just want to be who you want me to be. Exactly. And I want to express it the way you want me to express it.
SPEAKER_00Well, listen, Alvin, I appreciate you taking the time to be on the podcast today, brother. You've got a great ministry. I I love your anointing that the Lord has on you, and you've been a blessing to so many people you have no idea your ministry. And uh so I I hope maybe we can get get you back again sometime here.
SPEAKER_03Yes, sir. Well, Dave, thank you so much. I know we've been you've been we've been trying to get this together for a while now, but I appreciate your patience and uh so good talking to you. Let's do it again.
SPEAKER_00Here we go. What better to leave the podcast than listening to another one of the great songs from that project, Revive Us Again? Give God the glory.