Workforce Management 401: The Strategic Partner

Workforce Management has spent too long being treated as a tactical function — focused on schedules, service levels, and intraday firefighting. In this final episode of the WFM series, we elevate the conversation.

Workforce Management 401: The Strategic Partner is the capstone episode that ties everything together — from forecasting fundamentals to operational maturity — and challenges WFM leaders to step fully into their role as strategic business partners.

Joined by Arlyne Pardo and Dan Smitley, this conversation explores what truly changes when WFM moves beyond execution and into influence.

We discuss:

• Why WFM gets stuck in tactics — and how mindset is often the real blocker
• What it actually means for WFM to be a strategic partner to Operations, Finance, and Leadership
• How listening to frontline teams turns data into actionable insight
• Why “better” systems matter more than “easier” ones
• The role of trust, transparency, and curiosity in high-performing WFM teams
• How AI and automation should support WFM — not replace judgment
• The future skills WFM leaders need to grow their influence in an AI-driven CX landscape

This episode is for:

• Workforce Management professionals looking to grow beyond scheduling
• CX leaders who want stronger planning, forecasting, and cross-functional partnership
• Operations leaders trying to reduce burnout, chaos, and reactive decision-making
• Anyone building modern support organizations at scale

If you’ve ever felt like WFM’s insights were underutilized, ignored, or misunderstood — this episode puts language to that frustration and offers a clear path forward.

This is not about doing more work.

It’s about doing better work — with clarity, influence, and intention.

🎧 This is the final episode of the Workforce Management series.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Final Episode Kickoff
• 1:13 Meet the Guests: Arlyne and Dan
• 4:13 The Role of WFM as a Strategic Partner
• 8:27 Evolving Role and Internal Mindset Shift
• 20:20 Listening to the Frontline: Insights and Impact
• 24:03 Transparency and Collaboration in WFM
• 37:31 Starting with Small Wins
• 38:22 Building Relationships with Supervisors
• 39:44 Arlyne's Strategy for Engaging Teams
• 41:40 Creating a Safe and Open Environment
• 44:57 The Importance of a Strong Foundation
• 55:29 Embracing AI in WFM
• 1:06:04 Final Thoughts and Future Directions

Transcript

Sarah Caminiti: last episode of the WFM Workforce Management Series, kicking off 2026 with so much knowledge, so much experience, many hot takes, but just. Just such great conversations with these two incredible human beings that have gifted me with so much of their time. And, uh, I'm really bumming that this is the end.

So if listeners you have other things you want us to talk about, tell me so that I can force another follow, follow-up bonus episode out of this and get to hang out with them some more. Um, but I am Sarah Caminiti. I'm the host of the CX Roundtable. Um, and we have familiar faces that are very eager to do a final introduction for you.

Meet the Guests: Arlene and Dan

Sarah Caminiti: Arlyne, [00:01:00] uh, can you please introduce your.

Arlyne Pardo: Hello everybody. My name is Arlyne Pardo. I'm, um, based in Panama. I'm a WFM professional with eight years of you have heard in the last previous episodes. Right. Um, very thankful that you get into here and I hope that you have gained a lot of knowledge and if you have any questions, we are available to, uh, answer them in the best way that we can.

Sarah Caminiti: Yes. Oh. Could not have said that better, Arlyne. It is. Uh, it's really, really cool for this community to be able to meet you too, if they haven't met you before, but get to know you in, in such a way through this series where I know they're going to feel much more comfortable reaching out on LinkedIn or other ways to, to get in touch because they know how, how warm you are and how, uh, happy you are to, to meet new people, um, which makes me really excited for this community to, to benefit [00:02:00] from you long term. Uh, now Dan, you like to introduce yourself for the final time?

Dan Smitley: I love to. So Dan Smitley, uh, consultant over at 2:Three Consulting been WFM for close to 20 years. Um, a little bit about myself. I was thinking about those old forward emails. You remember those surveys where, like the late nineties, here's 20 questions. So I like pie over cake. I like coffee over tea. I like Harry Potter over almost every other possible series.

Um, and I prefer streaming music over cd 'cause one of my daughters loves physical media and she's into CDs. I don't know, but streaming is way better. So that's a little bit about me and happy to have this conversation.

Sarah Caminiti: Now I want to just pause the actual planned conversation, and I need to know more about this, the CDs in your household, because I didn't even know that they made them anymore.

Dan Smitley: They do. My, one of my daughters loves physical media and so she prefer [00:03:00] DVDs over streaming CDs vinyls. Yeah, it's really, it's like in her for Christmas, she asked for one of those CD holders that you put above on your like mirror visor things in your car. 'cause her car still has a CD player and so she wanted to like, she was like, wouldn't it be so cool I can just take my CD out and put her, I'm like.

I don't know. I feel like it makes me older. 'cause somehow maybe it's cool again 'cause it's vintage, but it's, it hurts a little.

Sarah Caminiti: No, no, that's magical. Oh my gosh. That just brought me so many flashbacks of like my first car where you first start out with just the visor, but then you end up getting like the like 50 pack that you have to like go through just like a photo album to try to find and they're like all burn CDs that you didn't label correctly.

And so you have to figure out what all these blank shiny things actually mean. man. got a cool kid. You've got a cool

Dan Smitley: I.[00:04:00]

Sarah Caminiti: So we should probably talk about WFM, uh, even though I still do wanna talk more about this, but it's fine. We can have that be another conversation.

The Role of WFM as a Strategic Partner

Sarah Caminiti: So today to close out this series, we are going to be looking specifically at how WFM is a strategic partner, and to those that of you, to those of you that have been listening for the last three episodes, there's going to be some things that are called out that are probably familiar, uh, from the first three because we were just building foundations and we were building upon those foundations over the last three episodes. Um, so this episode is our chance to kind of bring everything together from foundational language space to leadership, to operational, um. Insights as well and figure out how to utilize WFM, um, as a strategic partner in the best way possible, to, um, bring you to the places that you need to, to be heard and, uh, and allow you to be [00:05:00] the resource and, and partner that the company deserves to have as do the employees.

Um, and then we will close out by talking about the future. So let's start with thinking about WFM from like an evolving role perspective. And we touched upon this a little bit last episode, how WFM can sometimes be seen as just the schedule makers and what shifts when. WFM stops just being seen as the schedule makers and starts being seen as the strategic partners.

And I'm gonna start with you, Arlyne, on this one.

Arlyne Pardo: So for me, when WFM is stopped, being as the schedule makers is when we have an influence how the decisions are made, we help to make smarter decisions because we have the data, we have the, [00:06:00] foundation, um. We seem to be like able to suggest some improvements to help in a certain way, the customer journey, our employees wellbeing. So rather than chasing why we're not maybe achieving a service level during the intro day as well, we can start an influence with the operations team and suggest changes maybe, and maybe this is not gonna be a easy conversation. That's, that's what I think, um, when you start getting into that arena about operations and telling you how you think that things should be best if we do it in a different way. Um, just thinking about this and going back to an example. Um, we were getting question about why we were not meeting [00:07:00] service levels on a particular account in a particular channel. It was the chat channel. And while we were investigating why, um, we find out that the agents were not coming from training train on chat, they were only trained on boys. But while we stopped doing just, just a schedule and become a bit more influential, we asked, and why is, is this on this way? Why we cannot add this? Like, that type of influence could get us to get better results. So that's how I see it.

Sarah Caminiti: That's a really good point, uh, about how the influence is what really does change the perspective from is a team that just handles schedules to, this is a team that is our partner. This is a team that has data that we need to make the right decisions for the customer on [00:08:00] their journey, but also for the employees.

And I'm sure that also opens up the door to leveraging WFM in other areas of the business as well, because. As you have proven the value with the data that you have within the space that you're already, uh, laser focused on. Dan, do you have anything from your experience that really, really locks in how, how this shift can happen?

Evolving Role and Internal Mindset Shift

Dan Smitley: One of, if not, the biggest hurdle for WFM teams to overcome, to become a strategic partner is their own internal mindsets. I think when we talk about right, WFM is this aligning these numbers to these numbers, going through the process of forecasting and scheduling and, and it's very tactical. It's very, we need to execute the next forecast, the next schedules, the, even in, in RT or real time monitoring, it is, I know the SOPs I've created, so I do X, Y, Z.

It's very [00:09:00] tactical and a lot of our mindset in WFM is it's very black and white. This is right. That is wrong. Stop doing this. Start doing that. You asked me how can we get to service levels? I've told you now it's your call if you want to hit service levels, if you want to bring in the people, right? And I think for a lot of WFM teams, um, that mindset is limiting.

So your question around like what shifts or, or how can we even start approaching it, it it absolutely starts with WFM own internal mindset that they are partners, not simply answer givers, that we are looking to support operations or others. And that it's strategic and that can feel scary at times for WFM or or anyone to shift from.

Do, do, do tactical execute to strategic thinking, visioning, what could be, where could we go, how could things get better? Um, so. Um, how to get there. We'll leverage some of the skills and stuff that we've already talked about, but I think it's, that is one of the biggest blocks [00:10:00] for WFM teams to be strategic partners is the reshaping and reshifting to say, I am a partner to them and then I need to help think strategically in long term, not just 30 day forecast.

Here's your schedules. Okay, now I'm gonna go watch my queue and, and go through my SOP. So I think that's one of the biggest blocks that a lot of WM teams will probably experience.

Sarah Caminiti: I love that you brought that up because I think that that mental block is one that I've seen a lot in the CX space. It's that, uh, giving yourself permission to think beyond the black and the white and to trust your gut and to trust your instincts, to, talk about what you know to be true, to share your ideas, to, to enter into those spaces and not just kind of be a fly on the wall in those meetings, but actually be an active participant. Um, because those shifts can't happen if you are [00:11:00] hesitant, if you are not confident in what you're doing. Because just like in any scenario, no one is gonna come to you with this silver platter and say. Welcome. You have proven yourself worthy. Here is a 40 minute time slot in our most important meeting of the week, and I cannot wait to listen to everything you say and do every single thing that you propose that we do.

That does not happen. You have to own your own success, and if you are an ic, it's really hard to feel confident enough to own your success if you do not have a leader that has proven that they own their own success and encourages you to do so as well and coaches you and, and talks you through your nervousness and, and the realities of, of if you stumble that it's gonna be okay.

And it's all of those little moments of. Shifting that team dynamic of us [00:12:00] against them, which I know many people outside of WFM that are in the CX function field, often it's that siloed mentality of gonna listen to us. It's just, we gotta, we gotta figure this out. We gotta stick to stick to this.

And, uh, maybe they'll ask us a question that will allow this to unlock this conversation, but probably not. And if you stick in that head space, then you're just setting yourself up to fail. You're setting your team up to fail, and you're making an impact on how they view their potential in other roles moving forward.

And so I, I really think that that's such an important piece to bring up, that it's not necessarily, you brought the data the right way. It's, you knew that there is something to be shared that is going to make a meaningful impact. And you. in yourself that you are worthy of sharing that information. [00:13:00] Oh, I love it. Thanks for saying it my friend. Um,

Dan Smitley: I said.

Sarah Caminiti: that's why we're a good team. Um, we think also about the evolving role, sometimes it's really overwhelming to even know where to start. Thinking about shifting your head space and thinking about the business questions that you can even start to. Insert yourself in or start to be thinking about your impact in. Uh, and I know in the very beginning you talked about the many different ways that WFM can be leveraged within a business outside of just within call center scheduling. But how to talk the talk, knowing the language, knowing what questions to ask or what key words to be on the lookout for is usually a part that no one really teaches you.

You know, it's not like there is a book of [00:14:00] phase one. These are the things to look out for. So, from your experience, Dan, I'll start with you. What do you think are like the top couple of questions that WFM professionals should be either listening for or asking themselves or asking, you know, whatever it is, the, the crowd that they find themselves in front of to start to, to dip their toes into shifting this, uh, this dynamic.

Dan Smitley: I'm curious, I think we touched on it a little bit last time. Um, it's understanding what the problems and challenges are of those around you and not requiring them to give you the question to go answer. So, uh, expand of, it's, it's not saying, Hey, ops or marketing or finance, what do you guys want us to do?

I think instead it is what are your challenges, pain points, what are you going after? Or [00:15:00] even just listening in, right? Just listening for maybe I'm not in a meeting with finance, but I hear I. Operation managers. I hear directors from the call center talking about its budgeting season, and things seem a little bit tighter.

I can queue up being like, okay, finance would probably talk about cost 'cause it's, and, and that should hopefully get your, your wheel spinning on what's most important. So the question of like, what questions do you ask? You ask questions of what are, what are our priorities? What are our focus, what are we going after?

Because again, if we go all the way back to, you know, episode one of the three different focus of customers, agents, or business. My perspective is that none of them are in particularly always most important. It is organizationally focused. It is team focused to say, this is what's most important. And so for the questions of like, what should WFM be listening for, it's which piece is the focus?

Is it agents or is it customer or is it business? And then just ask why. Why is that being so important? [00:16:00] Why, what is it that we've tried? Um, and I honestly think before w FM can be a strategic partner and being able to provide really good answer, uh, answers, you have to get really good with the questions.

Why are these things so important? What is it that we're trying to accomplish? What else have we tried in the past? So I just want WFM if I could give them something, hone in on what are those problems and challenges that the teams around you are possibly experiencing? And, and just listening in for little clues of this is where the people are focusing, this is where leadership is focusing.

And then start thinking through how can WFM be supportive of that particular goal?

Sarah Caminiti: A good point. That's such a good point. Um, and that what a confidence boost that is too. Once you do understand the questions, once you do understand like the definitions behind those three different pillars, you'll be able to be a part of conversations without hesitating as much because you've built that foundation within yourself of knowing [00:17:00] this is what this means, this is when, this means this, this is why this is this.

And you, you've built that muscle to ask why in many different ways so that when you're in those rooms, you can ask why from a space of q. Curiosity to enhance the conversation rather than those questions almost from, from a place of overwhelm or, or nervousness, which can be read as they're not ready to be a part of this conversation. Um, and so, uh, I think that that's a really valuable thing to highlight. What about you, Arlyne? What do you think? Um, are there any other things that you find to be good pieces of language, good questions to ask? Um, when, when you start shifting that mindset to be that strategic partner.

Arlyne Pardo: Um, yes, for example. you have been working for an account and you know that a season is coming, the [00:18:00] question not to the stakeholders, like especially to your, to yourself, that if we are prepared for this seasonal change, if we are prepared for this seasonal growth or decrease, maybe what will be the impact, um, from a financial perspective?

What's the cause of attrition? What's the cause of, um, low occupancy, high occupancy? How will that impact as well my operation? And, but at the. Basically all of this gets back to what just Dan says about being an active listener, and I think that's very important and not just work as a silos like we are WFM, this is the historical data that we have. Uh, they haven't give us any marketing, like go outside and ask, um, happening on their work. And probably the information that you are [00:19:00] looking for will come on a casual conversation or in a meeting, and you will have all this inputs and data that you need to build your forecast, to build your schedules, to work these items that are important for you and as well for the company.

Sarah Caminiti: Love that. I love that. Gosh, already so much information and knowledge in such a short period of time.

Listening to the Frontline: Insights and Impact

Sarah Caminiti: Um, leaning more into the curiosity angle, I know that we've talked about this in layers over the last handful of, of weeks, but, uh, what does it look like are lean when WFM listens deeply to the frontline?

Arlyne Pardo: Well for me is that we start understanding the numbers. when we approach everything with curiosity, we make ourself, um, available to get more information rather than just report on numbers. [00:20:00] If we only report some numbers, like we can have a manager or somebody else in the company that have the same access and you and pull the same numbers, but we'll start questioning like why the service level was uh, affected or dis trouble and we start listening.

The agents, for example, um, maybe like they will have the answer. And I have seen this, um. a particular account that we had, we only have two, uh, fixed shift. And we start asking the supervisors, we start asking the agents and all of them come up with the same answer that after the first shift leave, we, we will see an impact on the service levels just by listening to them. And the solution was for us very easy. We implemented a third shift, like a middle shift, and that helped to support service level rather than saying, oh, we lose service level on this, [00:21:00] this interval, but why?

Sarah Caminiti: Yeah. I mean one of the things that has always been really frustrating being a frontline worker, being a leader of the frontline is how often. The knowledge and the experience and the input of those people that are actually feeling the pain, uh, how often that's ignored or, or it's not valued at the same level as someone at a higher level that no, no time spent actually doing this work anymore. but they may have a lot of data, but they don't have the context around the data. And knowing that these people that are in the frontline are having to handle a lot of different things. There's a lot of context switching. There's a lot of many things happening all at once. But in order to be successful in these spaces, you have to be really, really good at pattern recognition [00:22:00] and. When you are really good at pattern recognition, you are able to see opportunities that you would not be able to get to a solution for, even know that it was something worthy of a solution. you're just looking at data, if you're just looking at a dashboard, because often those things are not visible, they're just what happens in, in a day. And, uh, and so to, to have somebody on the front line notice that, that the service levels dip within a certain period of time. And to be able to then think about with them, brainstorm with them, what should we do next? You're not only getting a solution or an experiment that is aligned with the people that are actually doing this work, that are actually needing this to be successful for them to do their job to the best of their abilities. But you're bringing them in, you're showing them that you value their opinion, [00:23:00] you value their knowledge and their experience enough to be a part of change. And, and for frontline workers, that's, that is a piece of a puzzle that is way too frequently missed. And it's such an easy one when you really think about it.

It is such an easy thing to do. Well ask questions and, and give them feedback that is encouraging and celebratory of their hard work or, or explain to them why it can't happen that way, which is another piece of the puzzle that is often, uh, not done, done appropriately. And, and so if you are engaged with the front line, are then able to say, I totally see this. now we are unable. to do this in the way that you suggested. It's a great idea. I'm gonna keep a hold of it. But it's not that we don't wanna do it, it's that we can't do it.

Transparency and Collaboration in WFM

Sarah Caminiti: And, [00:24:00] and Dan, you talked about this a lot in the first, uh, episode of, of the, the need to be transparent and give that transparency to the leaders of the frontline so that then they can share that information confidently and take that stress and, uh, and obligation off of their shoulders to navigate all these different pieces of the puzzle and really be there for the team to be supportive of the team. And have, have you found that when you're bringing this information to leaders from doing listening tours of the frontline, do you see a shift in them in how they're able to engage with their team?

Dan Smitley: I mean, yes, there is, there's a couple things that happen when that, when, when you're able to listen and, and equip frontline supervisors to have more meaningful conversations, um, those sups, [00:25:00] those managers, whoever they are. It is harder for them to maintain any sort of us versus them mindsets that might have been developed.

Either they've been given them, they've inherited them, they've developed whatever. It, it's harder when WFM feels collaborative to some extent, where like w fm is sharing, this is why we can't, and I'm sorry, I can't move your team meeting. I can't give your person this time off. I can't. And, and here's why.

Uh, that extra piece of information makes it so that they can't actually create their own little narrative as to why WFM sucks so much and why they're always saying no. Like it's just harder for that. And then that trickles down. Like if W FM isn't interacting directly with the agents and they go through soups as an example, a supervisor as an example, um, that mindset shift of not just us versus them, but somehow they're kind of reasonable people and they, they're, they're kind of trying to focus on these goals.

And that's the reason why the, the agents are like, oh, well, if that's the reason why. [00:26:00] One, uh, my might have thought of WFM shifts, but also my requests might start shifting where they understand the prioritization that WFM is on service levels or, you know, occupancy or whatever the, the focus is. They're like, okay, so if that's what they're focusing on, then my requests should X, Y, Z.

They should adjust a little bit. And so I've seen significant value in multiple positions where WFM is able to be a little bit more transparent and sharing of information. It just, it almost feels like grit and the cogs start getting removed and things just start going a little bit easier. That interaction between w fm and soup soups to agents, agents to everything starts working a little bit easier because we're not making up this narrative as to why WFM constantly is saying no, and, and what that even means.

Sarah Caminiti: That's such a, that's such an ever present piece of either success or failure within a business [00:27:00] as a whole. Um, and something that I have been very proud of in some of the spaces that I've built functions is I try to create what good looks like within my, bubble. I don't control. What happens in those other spaces?

I do control what good looks like within my space, and, and that is I am sometimes uncomfortably transparent because I cannot make an assumption that someone can't handle. And if you're listening to this, I'm doing quotes around it because I think that it is the most ridiculous thing that people really seem to like to say all the time. Uh, they can't handle this information, therefore I'm not going to even consider sharing it with them. But then when you ask what makes you believe that these individuals cannot handle whatever this information is, you have nothing to back it up. It's just really, you didn't want to, you, you didn't wanna let them in.

You didn't wanna get their feedback. You [00:28:00] didn't want to have to be honest about the reality of the situation. Um. And sometimes as a leader, it can be really hard to be uncomfortably transparent because you have to then acknowledge the blockers that you face. I tried to get this and this is what I faced, and if the other spaces are not as uncomfortably transparent as you are, you may not have the answer that you wish that you had to explain why things can't go forward.

But in that same vein, like if you are constantly communicating to your team, this is the reality, this is the journey that we're on, these are the things that I'm advocating for. These are the blockers that I'm finding. Yes, the project team, they do have a really hard time in giving me actual concrete feedback.

So I'm going about things in a different way this time. This is an experiment I'm running, and I'm gonna see if the outcomes are different, if they're able to explain things in a different way. To me, if I'm able to create that in my bubble, [00:29:00] maybe it's a naive hope, but my hope is that. other teams notice we are actually all partners in this.

Like my team is not a hierarchy. Even though yes, I may make the final call, yes, I may not be able to bring everybody in on every strategizing brainstorming plan, but we're all in this together and we know what in this together actually means. And I'm not having to sugarcoat stuff or lie about stuff or, or omit stuff to them.

It's just is, this is our job. This is what we're, we're facing. This is what you need, this is what I need, this is what the business needs. And so then maybe it'll have that ripple effect and start to to show itself so then you can have better conversations. But what you were saying there, Dan, about. And WFM and and, and the impact that it has on the supervisors and, and the frontline teams. That is proving what happens when you remember that everybody here is a grownup. [00:30:00] Everybody here is capable of great things because they are successful in their role. Everybody wants to be successful in their role. And if you are unable to give them what they ask because they don't realize that your priority is this and they're structuring things in this way, and therefore there is that disconnect, and then you don't take that as an opportunity to educate them on this is why. This is how we can build together in a way that you feel supported and we are able to meet our needs and goals. Then, then you are actively setting people up to fail, and you are leaning into this siloed mentality of, I want them to think it's us against them. I want them to feel smaller next to me, or I want them to feel like their role isn't as important as my role because I'm not giving them the tools that they need to be [00:31:00] successful. And to have conversations with you, Dan, and with you, Arlyne, about the impact this quote unquote schedule manager position can have within a company that is so much more than just managing schedules. It has the impact to give a narrative that's honest, to give language to people, to give them the tools they need to be successful so that as they build their careers, they're building it. Stronger because they know how to communicate cross-functionally. They know what different terms mean. They know how to pivot. They know not to take things personally. And uh, and I just think that that's so cool when talking to different functions within a company to, to really just celebrate the power that every single function in the company [00:32:00] has to make a difference in so many different spaces.

That was a little bit of a soapbox, tangent.

Dan Smitley: It's okay though. I think two, two thoughts. I'm already thinking about. I can hear w FM professionals in my ear. One, they're saying I'm already doing this, or two. That's really complicated. This idea of just listening. And so two, two quick thoughts. One, we're talking about a better process, not an easier process.

Translating, communicating out the transparency of information, uh, can cause, um, concern, but it might build trust. It can build and it can create this, um, follow up questions where maybe they weren't gonna ask more questions, but it's more work for you. Now, we're not talking about easier, we're just talking about better.

And I, and, and you have to ask the question, is better worth the effort? Maybe it's not. I don't know. I think most of the time it is worth the effort, but you, you have to go through the do the math yourself. So we're talking about better versus easier. And the smallest, simplest thing is we're talking about listening, not reading.[00:33:00]

It's such a stupid small little point, but I think a lot of WFM people judge, a lot of leaders in general are gonna say, I have a survey that I read, and that's where I get my information from. It's different, like humanize the frontline by actually listening to voices, listening to them, interacting with them virtually is fine, but voices hit differently than words.

And so when we're talking about what does it look like when WFM listens to Frontline, I just wanna highlight like, and I would challenge others, CX leaders or WFM leaders or just leaders in general, don't fall into the trap of just reading feedback. Like listen to the people, listen to their feedback.

It's gonna hit differently and I think you'll get more out of it that way.

Sarah Caminiti: It's a great thing to highlight. I didn't even think about like pinpointing that difference because, especially since I. Have built the career in much smaller spaces. And so like I didn't always need to be [00:34:00] reliant on surveys and stuff to, to gather feedback. I have weekly one-on-ones with people on my team where I'm, I'm asking them questions and I'm gathering feedback in that way, shape, or form. But if you are someone that's in a contact center space and the number of people that you could be interacting with is vast, or even if it's just you're in a mid-size company and it's just feels overwhelming to even think about interacting with a lot of different people. I was just having a call earlier today with someone who's asking questions about, uh, uh, retention for, for customer success managers.

They're going through some, some struggles and, and he was feeling overwhelmed and, and I recommended just pick five people, pick five people to start with and just. really, really present. Talk to them. Ask them questions. Figure out ways that you can incorporate their feedback into different parts of your business function.

Prove the value to not only [00:35:00] yourself, not only to them, but to the business as a whole of why this is time well spent. And then can justify resources to making this a part of, of your daily function. If you go into that thinking, I'm already doing this, and you're feeling overwhelmed, or you're feeling like you're, you're not being heard, look at what you're actually doing, because we all experience this all the time.

Like we want to immerse ourselves in something because we think if we don't immerse ourselves in it, we're not going to be successful. We're not gonna get the full, the full picture of it. And. I mean, this is kind of similar to the conversation that we had before I hit record, and another reason why I'm terrible about hitting record on time, but, uh, it's, it's understanding that like, being purposeful doesn't mean being everywhere. Being purposeful can mean if you're having, if you're not having luck with [00:36:00] what you're doing right now, don't get discouraged with yourself. Cut it down. Pick a couple of things. Pick a couple of people, pick a couple of questions. Laser focus on those questions or those individuals and start to build momentum through small wins. It's so easy to get down on yourself and that mentality can then turn to resentment to the other people in your organization because you are doing everything you can to be everything to all of these people or things or departments. And I. Your version of everything, your definition of everything is probably really jumbled because you never actually let yourself define it because you're just trying to be everywhere.

You're saying yes to everybody. You're humping on all of these calls, but your mind is so full. You can't take anything away from those conversations or do anything with them or [00:37:00] compile it into data. And if you're a w FM professional, you love your data, you need to be able to compile your data.

Starting with Small Wins

Sarah Caminiti: And so give yourself a hug first also give yourself permission to start with something that you can be proud of tomorrow. some easy win that you can have? Tomorrow, get on a call with two people on the front line and then take that feedback and bring it to the supervisor and say, I talked to these two individuals. They're having two totally different experiences. And is it because of their shift? Is it because of just the personality type?

Have you noticed something when you're having these conversations?

Building Relationships with Supervisors

Sarah Caminiti: Pick one supervisor. If you've got a ton of supervisors that are there and pick a couple of people from their team, focus on that. So then you can start to build that relationship with those supervisors and that gains momentum and that gives [00:38:00] you that, oh. Wait a second. I've been doing this now for a couple of weeks. I didn't think that it was really having an impact, but I've noticed that these two people that I had these calls with, their, their requests are worded differently. They're, they're less nervous when they're asking for things. They actually requested a few extra things, uh, for, for schedule changes, which they normally don't do.

Maybe it's because they feel safe now to actually voice what their needs are or, or highlight things because I'm building this relationship and that has, that has a lot of legs for really positive changes for the future. Uh, Arlyne, I completely hijacked your opportunity to, uh, I feel like I've just hijacked like the last 20 minutes.

I'm so sorry you guys. Um, I've, I've really been trying hard to not do that, but, uh, we leave it for the last episode. Um, but Arlyne, from, from your.

Arlene's Strategy for Engaging Teams

Sarah Caminiti: Experience, especially being with BPOs where you have so many different needs that so many different companies have [00:39:00] it comes to listening to the frontline workers, how do you organize that in a way that doesn't make your head wanna explode with trying to make sure that you're not asking the wrong things to the wrong people that are in this contract or you're, you're actually staying aligned with, with what their goals are.

Arlyne Pardo: Well, as you said, it's not something like with a lot of people. Maybe it's like a small group of people, maybe it's five agents. Um, usually my strategy, and I'm just say it here, is I talk to the operations managers or the VPs of the accounts first, and I'm telling them that I'm having this idea and I want to find out some feedback from the agents or the supervisors so I can get them on board of my idea and they don't feel that I'm trespassing boundaries.

Sarah Caminiti: So that's a good point.

Arlyne Pardo: that's my [00:40:00] strategy on that one. And then I'm just gonna set up some time, maybe with the supervisors or the agents. And at the beginning it's gonna be very awkward. They're gonna be, feel, feel, uh, scared because it's the WFM head, which is setting up a call and you probably will some stories in your head thinking that you did something wrong. I tried to start very casual, I making some conversations. How has been your day? How long have you been here? Uh, I just remember that with one supervisor. I said like, oh, I have seen your name on so many reports. You were an agent. Right? And you know, like trying to build that momentum with the person. I'm recognizing that this person was a, had a promotion and she gave me so many ideas during that meeting. And after that meeting, she has the confidence to reach out to me teams and send me more [00:41:00] ideas. And that's how we overcome some challenges just. I don't know about other, other WFM professionals is not that hard. you start to do it, it's gonna be hard on your mind forever if you never take the chance and do that.

Creating a Safe and Open Environment

Arlyne Pardo: And as well, um, you need to put yourself out there. Like sometimes while, when I get to the office, um, I do my, my work morning walks and I say, or greeting the agents, hello, how you doing? How is everything doing? Oh, yes. About the bonus. Yes, I know that that's coming up. Don't worry about it. Like just casual conversation so they can put like a familiar and friendly face on you. Right. And whenever we have a new training. New training class, I go to the training room. Nobody has invited me, but I go there and I say, [00:42:00] hello, everybody.

My name is Arlyne. I'm the WFM head. Um, I have been like, this is my, my funny introduction. Like, I have been here, I'm not considered myself as an old furniture. I'm more, more expensive. I'm like the Mona Lisa, you know, like I'm, I'm art, you know, and everybody start laughing and it sets like a sort of tone. And that's how it has worked out for me. Like, um, but usually whenever I'm going to this, uh, to do this, I try to as well, you know, get involved. They're direct leaders so they don't feel that, I'm not respecting their authority or like, it's just me having casual conversations.

Sarah Caminiti: Yep. Yes, that's it. I mean, that's it. It's humanizing reminding them you are just a person that is doing their best. [00:43:00] You are just somebody who wants them to be successful. You are. You choice in entering into those spaces and making just funny, uncomfortable, awkward thing, like comments that will immediately get them outta their head because they'll just be like, what the, what the heck did she just say? Uh, is? That is art. Arlyne, like that is an art form because you are then able to it so that the power dynamic is not messy anymore. You have entered in there as someone who respects them, who has humility, who has knowledge of what their lived experience is because you're reminding them that you started as an agent. You're setting the tone of partnership than I determine this [00:44:00] goes. And to be a leader that does that is not easy. And this goes back to what Dan said, which I'm so glad that you said it. Um.

The Importance of a Strong Foundation

Sarah Caminiti: It's not the easy path, it's the better path. And anytime you think about foundations, anytime you think about fixing foundations getting ready to scale, or you're entering into a new job in a leadership position and you're trying to assess things, you're going to get a lot of pressure for speed. You're gonna get a lot of pressure for prove your results for, for, uh, for easy, because that is how you can get to the numbers that people are expecting you to get in a really ridiculously period of time. But if you have proven to yourself actually I'm gonna stand firm what I [00:45:00] know to be true, and if I do better now, if I take that time to build a foundation that I'm proud of. That I'm proud to invite people into, to build with me, to grow with. Then easy is what I get after that. Like that is the result of it. It's hard in the beginning. It is it exhausting in the beginning because you have to think about how to prevent cracks from developing, from being exposed from from happening over time.

So you have to do risk assessment in so many layers. It's asking that why question, like you said, Dan, asking that over and over and over again as you're starting to build a foundation. So yeah, that might take a handful of months, but. you have like your documentation intact [00:46:00] so that the people that are putting in those requests know what your why is, how things should be structured, what the priorities are, so that they don't have to feel uncomfortable asking if you have like open office hours for people to be able to reach out to you.

If you have all of these things already a part of your established routine, then when you bring new people onto your team, you are just inserting them into this structure that already exists. It's not like some crazy idea to do listening tours. It's not some crazy idea for weekly check-ins with operations.

It's, it's, no, this is better. It's solid. We can pivot as we need to because that's what you can do when you have a strong foundation. It's not. MVP. It's not band-aids. It's not, we'll get to it later. It's not. I don't value this enough [00:47:00] to dedicate specific time to making this good. Uh, it's the opposite. It is. In order for me to be successful, I need to know that I spent the necessary amount of time upfront so then I can focus on the strategic stuff, so then I can open up the door for these other people to come into this space so that I can teach people. I can go into those training sessions and I can introduce myself in a lighthearted way because I know that that just gets them in. And once they're in, then they'll see this is a well-oiled machine. This is a thoughtful machine. This is a strong foundation. And that is what determines the success of a function long term. Um, yeah.

Arlyne Pardo: You know what I,

Sarah Caminiti: Dang, I got too many soap boxes.

Arlyne Pardo: I like when you said about onboarding new people, like when you start onboarding new supervisor from WFM, new people from WFM [00:48:00] directly and they have seen you doing this accord, um, momentums and all of that. You don't have the need to tell them, this is how we do it. Basically, they will replicate that, and I have seen that with one of our new supervisors. She have like three months on the position and was, I was. Leading the first meetings on service level, it was like, uh, what happened at meeting? And I had some conflicts. I have to go to other meetings and all of that.

And she take over, like I joined later to that and she take over with the same energy. Like it didn't feel like we are looking for who to blame on it was more likely what we can do better or if it was working, how we can maintain that. So whenever you are onboarding new people into your team, [00:49:00] not need, if it's WFM or operations, like if they see you doing that more are the chances that you'll replicate that across the board and it's gonna be more easy.

Sarah Caminiti: Yeah. Yes, that's, that's so true. And what a testament to you and just the, the type of that you take to your work is something that people feel safe enough to replicate. And I think that that's something that's really, really important to not only highlight, but also to celebrate in you Arlyne, because you set a tone that this is achievable. You set a tone that this is something that you don't have to have 20 years of experience to be able to do. This is a choice that I make. is a choice you can make. And these are, these are things that [00:50:00] we can do. We can have humility, we can be human. We don't have to be super rigid. We don't have to be super awkward and uncomfortable and, and, and unapproachable. You prove every single time you walk into a room, whether it's that training room, whether it's an onboarding room, whether it's any of those spaces. Even when you're not doing your, your, your introduction. Just when you're walking around and, and having those side conversations with people on the floor, people see, people see that you're successful and you're still doing this.

People see that you are a woman who is not changing. How she approaches her work, her relationships, her day. She's not compromising on that and she's still successful. She's still capable of doing her work. You're showing that you can be a leader and still be. You still lean into your values, not lose that you're not losing [00:51:00] time. That could be done doing other things because you have a solid foundation. It's having people join your team and you get caught up in something and and they have to pick up the slack. to have them be able to do that seamlessly, enjoy it, be confident, be proud of themselves. Like have it be something that they walk out of that space smiling and when you walk in, they smile because they're excited that you get to see them doing this that well. That is rare. That is not something that you easily can be taught. That's something that is just a part of who you are. That is just a part of you at your core, but it is something that has the impact that you probably will never even realize that it has that kind of an impact. [00:52:00] And to be in an be in a company that has a scale that yours has, you are proving that you don't have to sell yourself short.

You don't have to sell yourself for your integrity. You don't have to approach your day differently. You don't have to apologize for being a woman. Like you don't have to do any of these things. And that is so amazing. I'm just, I like, I've got, like I had, I got the chills when you were telling that story because it's just like. I am so lucky that I get to learn from you, but I also get to celebrate you here because it is people like you that don't get celebrated enough you are paving the way for the future leaders in many spaces, whether it's WFM or or anybody that's even listening to, to these episodes of you [00:53:00] can really be proud of yourself at the end of every day. And in doing so, you're making a lot of other people proud of themselves too, because they're able to, to test out the things that they see you do and, and, and are still standing after, which means that they get to do it again the next day and the next day, and the next day.

Arlyne Pardo: I am speechless.

Sarah Caminiti: Yeah, it's all true. It's all true. And I mean, you've got Dan here who's your mentor, who has just had this glow of pride for the every single episode that we've recorded, um, which has been such, such a joy for me to see too.

Dan Smitley: It's true. I, I, yeah. Low pride is well put.

Sarah Caminiti: It's a cool group of people. So since, uh, I hijacked 90% of this episode, but I got to learn way too much from you guys still within like the four minutes I've let you talk. Um, I really want [00:54:00] to pivot a little bit, um, to talk about the future. And I mean, Arlyne, I think you really set the tone for what the next generation of WFM leaders can look like, um, because. You are proving it every day. What good looks like. And Dan, you have described so beautifully what a solid foundation can look like, what it means to make it a choice, to take the better way instead of the easy way. Um, but Dan, I'll start with you. What are, what are things that we wanna highlight from past episodes?

What are things that maybe we haven't touched upon that may not be what's on a job description, but are so important or they are in a job description and maybe it, they're just worth highlighting as things to, to lean into. Um, if you are looking to develop your career, uh, [00:55:00] as a WFM professional.

Dan Smitley: I unfortunately fall into the trap thinking about the future, and I mean.

Embracing AI in WFM

Dan Smitley: Thinking about ai, and that's not the question, but that's just where my mind went.

Sarah Caminiti: it would be silly if we didn't touch on it because that's where most conversations head.

Dan Smitley: And, and so the question of like, future WFM leaders in a world of ai, the answer is embracing the humanness. What makes us different and unique. And I, and I think there's, I used to think it's empathy and unfortunately AI is getting really, really good with like giving foe empathy of like, ah, that's really hard, and I understand why you'd be feeling so challenged and like, it's getting decent about it.

So I definitely think it's curiosity. I think it's genuinely curious, stretching at an itch and, and trying to figure out like [00:56:00] how are things different than what they perceive to be? Or what else can I learn from this? So I think. Unfortunately, it's, it's the answer that I've given on so many other questions, but it is so important to like the future, and I think it does distinguish us separately from AI is, is being able to be really curious in about how things are.

I think that's number one. And then number two is about seeing people complexly. I think AI in general has this tendency to like oversimplify things and, and to be like, oh, you view people this way. So I'm gonna lean into that particular perspective. And I think as leaders, as WFM professionals, curiosity is gonna be important, important.

But then also just seeing people as more, more complex. I think we, we shared earlier, you know, maybe those foundations episode, not everyone wants a Monday through Friday banker hour schedule. Some people are more complex because of the intricacies of their life [00:57:00] and their careers and their passions and their profession, but whatever else they have going on.

Our ability to leveraging curiosity, seeing people more complexly and trying to get creative in how to work with them. Um, I think those are the skills that even as AI maybe comes for a big chunk of what we do and automate a whole lot. I think there's still value and seeing people complexity and, and being curious about people and just the world that if, if we develop those skills now, I think we're gonna be safe for a little bit of time.

Sarah Caminiti: Oh, I think that you're gonna be safe permanently though, because I mean, like we've seen in a lot of conversations about CX and ai, there's a lot of that fear language around, like it's going to be taking things from us and, and it's always, I know I've probably said it on this episode, but I say it all the time, like the only time a job has been completely removed, it's was the elevator operator.

And that was like in the fifties. [00:58:00] Like there has been a lot of stuff that comes in that says it's gonna take your jobs away. There's been a lot of things that have been automated. There's been a lot of things that. Seem so great in terms of size, not necessarily in quality. Uh, when you're first learning about it, they seem, it's so intimidating and, uh, and so you yourself that these things are going to go away completely and therefore I need to create a new space for myself, or I need to go into a new industry or what have you.

But with a lot of the things that I've learned over this series, and, and correct me if, if I'm wrong, but data, data is data reading. Data is reading data and having the tools. To do the pattern predictions, to be able [00:59:00] to do that root cause analysis for certain things, to be able to, to, to anticipate spikes or, or lower times or to see patterns in how people are requesting time off or, or what their needs are. That takes a lot of assumption work off of the plate of a person allows them the brain space to be a little bit more strategic. And so when I think about the future for anything within in the CX space, but in WFM specifically here, I see so much opportunity for, for the tools to come in and be tools.

They are, they're enhancers, they are, they are pieces of the puzzle and that is where they. Stay. And because you have this locked in system that's helping you calculate things and plan [01:00:00] things and strategize things, you then have time to do more of those listening tours. You have time to go into those training rooms and, and have those conversations and, and those meetings.

You have the time to upskill people on your team because you're able to, to bring them into meetings with you because they're not as required to be, uh, analyzing spreadsheets. And then the curiosity bit. It doesn't matter how good AI is. I mean, first of all, you are always gonna need people to be QA-ing ai, which is a job function in and of itself. But the curiosity bit, the knowing what questions to ask and how to ask them and when to ask them, and what to do with that information. Yeah, every supervisor is different. individual on the front line is different, every department is different. Those three functions that you have to figure out what is the priority right now, are ever evolving, and it's gonna be [01:01:00] those companies that lean too heavily on those LLMs or those AI agents that stop asking continuously the why, and then they lock in, alright, in February, somebody told me that this one was the important one.

So all of my decisions, all my answers are gonna be around this one specific thing, but it's November and things have pivoted and it's something else, but no one knows. You gotta tell AI that it's something else. That's why you guys are gonna always be so valuable, and I can just see your role exploding because. You're able to read the data, which means you're able to QA the data, which means you're able to leverage the data in ways that off spreadsheets is never gonna be able to do. You're gonna have a voice because you're gonna have the brain space to do that strategic work in ways that you didn't [01:02:00] before, and the confidence in what these AI tools are producing because you're able to read them and analyze them in ways that others wouldn't be able to.

And so I just see so many opportunities for WFM to move beyond just the frontline workers and into all of those areas that we talked about in that first episode because you can do so much all the time.

Dan Smitley: I take.

Sarah Caminiti: Arlyne, what about you? What have you seen, I mean, even just touching on the AI in, in your space and, and with companies that are, are using your, your services. kind of conversations are being had for what the future of, of WFM, of the needs of, of these, of these customers? Like what are things changing for you?

Arlyne Pardo: Well, for us, AI is already like a reality. Uh, we already have an agent, full ai, so it's that [01:03:00] how we try to add all the information that this agent needs to replicate the most accurate way to the customers. Uh, so that developing it has taught me a lot to not think that I will be replaced. Rather than have curiosity to understand this, how it works, how I can support our business based on this new, uh, service that we are offering, uh, how we can measure this service if it's doing the right things or the wrong things. Um, if the call has the first, uh, time resolution, for example. So for the future WMS out there, I think you need to be open to learn with curiosity about AI rather than shut down yourself and say you don't want to use that. Because as you say, Sarah, is there is so much that you can [01:04:00] gain from this. A lot of time that you can claw back from routines that you are doing. Um. have one of my supervisors, my reporting supervisor is showing me like an automatic report that will tell me who is up and who is down on adherence from all the accounts. You know, like without having an analyst going over through that data and having just that in a few seconds in your inbox, sending that out to the VPs.

Like that excitement from his side, like he's open to learn about this. He's open to create his new reports with this AI tool. Like I believe that's how we should be approaching this new era rather than not using it at all because it will hallucinate or something you need to detect when it's doing that. that's why you need to, for example, for the QA port, for the [01:05:00] QA departments now, like there is so many systems out there that are offering AI to evaluate the calls. The time that it could belaw back from, from the, from that to the analyst to actually coach on what's needed to improve the customer experience.

Like all of that is tight, but you need to be open and curious about this. Um, probably the, future WFM learners will need to have strong storytelling this, um, be as well, besides the ai, like being comfort, working across departments, being comfort, not having a team, and still leading because all of us are leading.

It doesn't matter if you have a team or not. And, and the ability as well to negotiate and influence. I believe those are for me key here. Yeah.

Sarah Caminiti: Nailed it. [01:06:00] Nailed it.

Final Thoughts and Future Directions

Sarah Caminiti: Well, I don't want this to end, which is why we've gone over so much of what our planned time was, uh, because I just love talking to you guys so much. But, um, is there anything you want to end this series? is like one big final mic drop point, uh, no pressure that you would like to, uh, to, to end things with Here.

I'll, I'll start with you, Dan.

Dan Smitley: So I have this like imagery, this metaphor that I've thought about and used many times. So I'll, I'll leave it here. We're talking about strategic partnership. If, if you're in WFM, even if you're not, and you've made a career and moving fast and executing, stopping feels really scary because you've, you've been likely looking down at your feet, feet finding small little rocks and moving really fast to get 'em to like the scale of value and impact.

So you move fast to move a rock, move a rock, move a rock, and you've gotten, and everyone's complimented you by how much rocks you put on [01:07:00] this scale of impact. And this feels scary to stop, to look around for bigger rocks, to be able to think through, how can I move a big boulder from one spot to another?

I might need to use other people to get it there, but that strategic thinking, that strategic partnership. It is moving from looking down at your feet, finding the small rocks and putting 'em on the scale. And it said you're starting to look up, pause, think, process, build collaboration, build network to move a really nice big rock onto the scale.

And getting people to agree that's the rock we need to move is the partnership. Um, so that's if, if, if you're in visual like me, maybe that imagery will help. And what we're talking about here is stopping from the execution, building the relationships, getting curious about what rocks to move, and then getting others to circle around you to get that really big boulder that you could never move by yourself over to the scale of impact.

Um, it's scary, but it's worth [01:08:00] it.

Sarah Caminiti: Yeah, you, you delivered a mic drop there. There, Dan. Thank you. Thank you for doing that on the fly. Uh, Arlyne, what would you like to leave this series with?

Arlyne Pardo: Uh, for me is see yourself as business enablers or architects. can influence a lot on the business decisions, the right decisions, the company growth, uh, revenue. Customer experience, like don't see yourself just as makers. Uh, you are just transactional. Like your creativity can support a lot of business to grow. And as well the wellbeing of all the employees. So your impact is not just your direct reports, it's all the people that has something to do with what you are doing right now. Hr, maybe you have to, have a direct impact with [01:09:00] the recruiting part. With the recruiting part. Those agents, you will have an impact on them.

With the finance teams, you have a direct impact if you are not hiring at the right time. Um, and that will implicate financial costs. So yourself as business enablers or as business architects because you can accomplish a lot you do that type of mindset shift.

Sarah Caminiti: Yeah, I think one of the biggest takeaways here from all of these, uh, episodes is really. You, you hold the keys of how you're gonna approach this. I mean, and this is, this is obvious in, in many different parts of anybody's career, whether you're in, uh, WFM or not, but you do have more power than you give yourself credit for. And the choices that you make have an impact in ways that you probably don't even realize. [01:10:00] And pausing, thinking about how you're choosing to interact with others, how you're choosing to enter rooms, how you're choosing to, to lead, whether you are a leader in title or you are just someone that believes in their team and wants to support them. Um, you have a choice of how you're gonna show up. And, uh, and these two leaders here, Dan and Arlyne, are people that make a choice every day. That they wanna show up better, that they don't wanna show up easy, they wanna show up better. And, uh, the fact that they have found so much success in their career and are so highly regarded in their industry is proof that you will not sacrifice success by choosing to show up better. And I am so grateful to have been able to learn from you. My weeks are going to be a little bit more, uh, more on the sad side that I'm not gonna get to hang out with you. Uh, but uh, but thank you both so much for your time, for your [01:11:00] openness and your honesty, um, and your wisdom. Um, think this is a really, a really, uh, special series that, um, I think the community is gonna find a lot of value in.

Dan Smitley: Thank you. Uh, it's been a blast, uh, to watch Arlyne be who she is on a larger stage and to be able to add value and to have the conversation facilitated so well. This has been a joy. Thank you, sir.

Arlyne Pardo: Oh, I

Sarah Caminiti: Thank you, Dan. Thank you so much.

Arlyne Pardo: going to do the next weeks. I'm gonna miss you guys so much. Really?

Sarah Caminiti: Same, same. We'll find, we'll find an excuse. Don't worry, I'm, I'm already thinking about some things. Uh, but thank you listeners, um, and, uh, find these folks on LinkedIn. can find, uh, me on LinkedIn too. If you want me to do an introduction. I'm always game to do an introduction, especially for two incredible humans like these two here.

Um, and, uh, and I [01:12:00] hope you have a great rest of your day.

Dan Smitley: So.

​[01:13:00]