Leader Must Go First...

Leaders eat last...meaning they get the perks and credit last. The team always gets those things first.

But leaders GO first. 

Which means when something difficult must be done the leader has to go first.

When a new standard is set, the leader must model it first.

When the difficult things need to be said or a tough conversation needs to be had, the leader must initiate those things first.

Leaders don't wait around for the team or someone else to go first. That's pure abdication of leadership.

Going first is a responsibility every leader must embrace if they want credibility and buy-in from the team and the people around them.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:26

All right, and welcome back to the Second Mile Leadership Podcast. We are your hosts, Jason and Isaiah. And today we're going to talk about a topic that actually we have been trying to talk about for quite a while now. Um, and and I'll let Isaiah kick us off on this, but I think it's a very important characteristic or even a mindset for a leader to possess. Um and and you know, you you hear a lot of people, and I I think this phrase started in the Marines of leaders eat last, and then it was coined by Simon Sinek that eat leaders eat last. And it's funny, I made a social media post recently talking about that, and I credited Simon Sinek, and somebody came into the comments and and kind of blasted me because they said that's a marine term, not a Simon Sinek term. So um it it it it I'm sure they're right and uh my my mistake. But he is the one that coined it, and he wrote a book called that. And I think sometimes, you know, uh what we're gonna talk about today feels like it's in conflict with that notion. But when we talk about leaders eat last, the idea is that when there's a perk or there's a benefit, that you should let your people who have who have suffered for you, who have run through a wall for you, your people who are who are busting their behinds, realize those benefits and those those results and those those perks before the leader does. And and you know that that is a very you know uh important concept for leaders to follow. I'm a firm believer in that. But today's episode, we're gonna talk about when and how and why leaders actually need to go first, which again sounds like it's in direct conflict, but it's not. They're two wildly opposing uh concepts. But I want to uh kick the show off today with a story uh that Isaiah was telling me that is a good backdrop for this conversation, right? It it highlights in real life terms, actually using humans and dogs, uh, interestingly enough, um of how this concept comes into play. And we'll we'll kick in that story, and Isaiah, I'll turn it over to you to to to get us going on this, and then we'll break down some of the concepts behind it.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yeah. Um I'm a I'm a dog person at heart. Um I mean, I'm a I'm a Georgia fan. I have a dog. Um boo. Not the dog, but the Georgia fan part. Yeah. You hate dogs?

SPEAKER_01 2:38

I hate Georgia Bulldogs, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Are you uh are you a dog hater? Are you a cat guy?

SPEAKER_01 2:42

I'm a Georgia Bulldog hater, 100%. I'm not a cat person.

unknown 2:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Just want to play.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Now there's anything wrong with that, I assume, but uh I am not a cat person.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

What is the what is their 15 cats doing behind you right now? What are they up to?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Uh this is the neighbor's cats.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Gotcha. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Yeah, yeah. You're just pay no attention today. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just pay no attention. Let's move on. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Yeah. Yeah. This is uh this is a really, really cool story. It's been like stewing in my mind for a while. And I use it some in coaching, but basically, my wife and I do an anniversary trip every year. Um, we did not do one this past year because of our our daughter. Kind of ruined that, which is a little unfortunate. Uh back in 2024, we did uh an Alaskan cruise. First off, if you've never done one, absolutely gorgeous. Like to see God's beauty from there is is it's just insane. Like there's glaciers. If you've never seen Mount Rainier, like that is my it's it literally looks fake. Um, it's just absolutely gorgeous. But one of the excursions that you can do on an Alaskan cruise, which my wife and I were super hype about as dog people, um, was that you can do a sled dog excursion. And like these dogs, like uh like I love our dog. He's he's a great, great dog, shout out to Maverick. But um, buddy would not he he would not be uh in the same pack as these guys. They are they're just a different breed. So we get there. Um thought it was gonna be snow. There was not snow, it's all basically dirt, um, which is kind of crazy. That's that's what they train in. Um, but they have like the little puppy shelter, they have the like these these sled set set up. So right when we get there, they they bust us out, they run us through it real quick. Um, but I got the chance to talk to um this guy that works there and start talking and then find out that he actually won the Iditarod um a couple years back, which is you may not know what the Iditarod is. Um but it is a a thousand mile race in Alaska with sled dogs. It takes like most teams on average about 15 days. Like the the winners take about eight to ten days. So you were eight to ten days just straight hauling. Um and snow and cold, by the way. And snow and cold and in the worst conditions. Like it's it's absolutely insane. And there are checkpoints, and and now it's super updated and modern. So like there you're not very likely to die out there, um, but there have been countless people, countless dogs that have died um doing this race or similar races. Um but basically they they start at one point in Alaska, um, I believe it's Anchorage, and then they take a thousand mile-ish, they change it every year, but a thousand mile-ish um road track that they form um to a destination, first person across the crosses the line wins. Um, so this guy won. That's like pretty damn cool. Potentially the most difficult race in the world, this guy won. I'm sitting here talking to him. And uh so much knowledge and wisdom that I think parallels with dogs, but also um with leadership. And we're gonna dive into that today. But he said this quote and it really, really stuck with me. He said, if you're not the lead dog, the scenery never changes, and that's so true. And and and really, if you think about it a layer deeper, if you're that second dog, your view, a dog's butthole right in your face. That's it. So nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Excuse me, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Yeah, no, oh, okay. Continue, please. Yeah, that was uh that was a weird note. What you're talking about, move on. All right, what are the 15 cats doing right now?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Disregard. I'm gonna shut my camera off. Sounds good.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Um, but there's so many parallels between leadership and dogs, specifically sled dogs. And one of the things uh like I'm like it's just a fascinating convo, and I'm thinking through this like the entire rest of our trip, probably annoying my wife. Um, but the the lead dog essentially faces all of the friction from like the the wind, the snow, the rain, the difficult terrain, all the things. If you think about it, so um the Olympics are going on right now, um, there's speed skating, and during the Summer Olympics, you have like distance running. Those people purposely get behind other people to reduce the air resistance that they feel so they can save a little bit of energy so they can push, you know, later on. The same thing happens for a sled dog. The the lead dog is taking all of the air resistance and making it a little bit more streamlined for the rest of the dog. So their job is harder. It just is.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

You see that in car racing too. When you got two cars from the same team, sometimes the one of them will quote unquote take one for the team by getting out ahead just a little bit and reducing the wind resistance on the one behind so they can slingshot and do all these maneuvers to to move past other people. So yeah, I think you it shows up in a lot of different areas like that.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

100%. 100%. Um the the lead dog also determines the path. He or she is the one that goes first. They are going to direct wherever they're going. Now, of course, you know, the um the musher, they're they're going to ultimately decide where it's going. But that that that lead dog makes the in-moment decisions. Okay, we're gonna go this way, we're gonna avoid this log, we're gonna avoid this little hill, whatever it is, and go this way. That that is the lead dog's job.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Um and then got you a question real quick before you move on. Yeah. Does is the lead dog trained? Like, do they train the dog to know how to make these decisions?

SPEAKER_00 8:46

They do, yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Yes, that's there. So it's that's a that's a great question. Because it's one of the things that they they kind of talked about this more in a group setting than like me and the um I did a rod guy. Um but they like like they're kind of somewhat naturally born. Um, so that lead dog does actually like kind of have some natural leadership instincts from the beginning. Um, but a lot of it is developed on the back end. It's like, hey, we're we're gonna go this way. And if they make a bad decision, then like they essentially just stop the entire sled. Um, and then they I I don't know exactly what they do with the dog in that moment, but they stop it, they they reassess, they they they take in all the the bad decisions that that dog made, either switch them around um so that they know, okay, that was a bad decision, don't need do that again. Don't give them the treat, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Um they they the the dog's not chosen solely on its natural ability. It's it's trained and developed on how to be this dog. I wonder if they I wonder if they choose the dog on the front end based on athletic ability or stamina differences and then train it to how to make these decisions. It'd be interesting to to know how this dog is is chosen because it parallels what we talk about in in humans, right? Of of you know, with there are very few natural-born leaders that most leaders are developed. So I'm curious if it's the same in the canine world.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Yeah. Yeah, that's a really, really good question. I wish I was there for longer and could answer all that. But the there is so many parallels between that lead dog and leaders in real life. Um, but I mean, really that that lead dog is in charge of the rest of the uh when when we were riding, it was about 15, 16 dogs, I guess. Um, 15 dogs. And they were like following that lead dog wherever it goes. And even when they would stop, you could just kind of tell that that lead dog was like in charge. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but like you just like he looked at at that he had a presence.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

He did. He did.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

He carried he carried himself different, which which by the way, you know, this is we talk about you you hear the terms in leadership, executive presence or carrying yourself with confidence. You know, those are very, very difficult things to fake. I think when you see executive presence in people or you see people who truly exude confidence, not ego, but confidence, that is earned, right? They've been through some stuff, they have done some stuff, they've accomplished some things, and and that allows them to or to have that natural presence about them. Whereas I'm sure that dog is the same principle. The other dog should probably look up to that dog because they're it's a pack mentality. So I'm sure that there's a um I'm sure there's some elements in there that parallel humans as well. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

And uh the other thing is if that lead dog ever stops, like just decide to stop mid-run, everything crashes and it all falls apart. So that lead dog can never be like, I'm not feeling it today.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

No, you you gotta have a bad day. Yeah, exactly. You cannot have a bad day as a lead dog. Yeah. And then there's this really, really cool story, and me and that did a ride, I did a rod guide, did not talk about this. Um, but my wife and I watched it because I I think we actually may have watched it on the same trip. Um, because they were just running it on their on repeat on the cruise. But it's this movie called Togo, Disney made it. No, but it is about this the sled dog true story. Back in 1925, there was a diphtheria outbreak, basically just a bacteria, and it was in different parts of Alaska. Now you can imagine 1925, they don't have the technology, they don't have the planes that we do in modern day. It is hard to reach different areas of Alaska during this time. It was also during the worst months of winter. So, like, you really, really cannot reach these like far out towns in Alaska. So they have this diphtheria outbreak, and they're like, hey, we have this serum. We don't know how to get it to this town. Um, we don't know how to how to get it up there to to heal these kids, to help them not die, to help there not be a mass outbreak. So they pull together this team of sled dogs, and they're like, this is literally our best option. So they take the sled dogs, they take the the best mushroom that they have, and they go and they take this serum up to um gnome, Alaska, and it is about a let me make sure I'm quoting it right, but a 500-mile trip, and they so so they get it there successfully, which is awesome. Save the kids, beautiful. And then there's a statue made. There is a like a news headline made. There is um a lot of press about this because it's a really, really cool, uplifting story, and all of it is given, like all the credit is given to the dog that was the lead dog at the end. So that dog's name was Balto. He did the last 50-ish miles of the trip, and so people you know saw him come into town, they're like, Oh my gosh, the lead dog, like he did all the work. What they don't know, and like this was later revealed, so this is why they moved the made the movie Togo, is that Togo did 250 miles as the lead dog during that trip, but yet Balto got all the credit for that trip. That's insane. Yeah, like you can do all of the work and not get any credit, but if you're trying to do it for the credit, that's not what leadership is about.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

And it's interesting because I wonder if Balto and Togo had two different handlers. Do you know that? I don't know. Because I'd be curious if that because obviously the dog can't say anything or do anything, it has it has no concept of who's getting credit, but the handlers do. And I wonder if Togo's handler is one of those people who you know has enough humility to see Balto get the credit and just not say anything. Then I wonder if Balto's handler is somebody who got the credit, knew they shouldn't have gotten the credit and didn't say anything, which is pretty pissed poor as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Uh I probably don't need to say this, but obviously none of this is an indictment to uh Balto R.I.P. But he did he did do the last 50 miles. It's still a damn good dog. Yeah, it's nothing to do with the dog. The dog just did his job. Yeah. But yeah, it could have been two different I don't I have I have no idea. But really, really cool story of about how sometimes you don't get the credit even though you did most of the work.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah. And that that that speaks to the leaders go last part of it is is or eaters leaders eat last, I should say, is you know, when it comes to credit, uh, you know, i i if you're in leadership or you're you know wanting to be a leader because you want credit, you're you're in it for the wrong reason. If you go back and listen to any of our previous episodes or or anything that Isaiah and I talk about and stand for, credit should be the last thing on your list. And listen, that's a very difficult ask. I think intuitively we all want credit. And this one you hear me talk about leadership as a mindset, is something that has to be developed, it's a different way of thinking and a different way of being. It's different because it it flies in the face of maybe our true human nature. Um you you want credit for the work that you do, and and that's normal, and that's our ego talking because from credit comes validation. And we all seek validation. And I would even say on some level, with credit ensues a certain sense of belonging, and something that I talk about a lot and uh it may have come up on on the podcast, but it's that Maslow's hierarchy of need of needs, where when your water, food, and shelter needs have been met, and in most developed countries they have, the next thing you're uh needing is love and belonging. That is that is human nature. And I think getting credit speaks to that, right? It makes you feel like you're part of something and you belong. But it's something we have to develop out of our heads as leaders because guess who else wants the credit? The people who did the work with you, they also want credit. So as a leader, it it is usually best practices to avoid it but hand it out when it's it's the you know it it's um appropriate. On the flip side, when there is blame or something goes wrong, uh that's when leaders go first, right? So that there's a lot of leadership stories and and and concepts. I'm sorry, there's a lot of leadership concepts in the story you just told that that we could extract. You could probably do five episodes on that story alone because as you're telling it, I'm thinking, man, there's a lot of leadership concepts in this. But at the end of the day, you know, i if if we're using the the Togo, is that his name?

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Togo's the one that did the 250.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

The 250, yeah. So, you know, if you're using that story and you translate those dogs into humans, then then, you know, it's it's it's a classic, hey, when there's good things going on, give credit. When there's negativity going on, a bad decision was made, something's going wrong, the the leader has to look in the mirror and take responsibility slash ownership for that himself. So that's a very fascinating story, which, you know, again, we could break down for hours. But when it comes to the topic of the day of leaders going first, I'll ask you a question, Isaiah. When when you first heard that story from the Iditarod uh winner and and you processed it, how did that affect you as a leader? Like when you when you went into that and you you look talked to that guy, maybe you heard you said there was a group setting at one point, and you're hearing these stories about these dogs and these champions and and and the hell they go through and the training and the development and you know what was your mindset going into that and what was your mindset coming out and how did that story kind of change your perspective on all this?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yeah. Uh my mindset going in was uh I get to see Q puppies and uh like ride on a sled with with sled dogs. Like that that sounds pretty d pretty pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

You weren't expecting leadership blessings.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

I was not. I was not um but we get driven off and like this, you know, I'm I'm thinking I just talked with the bus driver a little bit while we're on our way out there and talk with my wife. It's just this beautiful scenery. Um, and then we just go on this like one road for you know 20-ish miles. There's nothing on this road other than this camp. And uh it's we we get in there. I'm like I'm just literally excited to see the dogs because like that, like these dogs are so badass, like they're so cool. Um, and they're not like this is uh an Alaskan husky. Um, most huskies that you see in like your day-to-day life are are bred kind of for looks, or most people select them based off of looks. These dogs are they're not gonna be your prettiest dogs, but they are freaking work horses. Um, so I get there and like still I'm just so excited to see dogs beside a young sled, have a great time with that. Um, but then actually listening to the stories, talking to that guy, um changed my perspective on that entire event, which I still really, really enjoyed it. Like it was cool, great to spend time with my wife doing that. Um, but like leaving that, then my mind is literally just going to a million different places. Like, how can I use this to benefit others? And how have you? How have you? Like I'm thinking through, yeah, I've used this during a lot of coaching. Um, because uh a lot of people have this false precept that leadership brings you more money and more happiness and and all these things, which it can. And uh like it it's it's uh it's extremely fulfilling, but that doesn't mean that it's always easy.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

It's fulfilling when it's done right. It's fulfilling when it's done right. Correct. It's not as fulfilling when when, you know, and I know that we the last couple episodes we touched on this, but when you when you make it about the money, when you make it about the authority, that also violates the laws of human nature. We are created to serve. Most people feel fulfilled when they serve. That's just the way we're wired. And there's a lot of biblical uh uh intertwinings in that. But if you do it right, yes, then then it is very fulfilling, but when you do it from money and status, it's not. So uh yeah, I I would submit, and I know we go back to the last two episodes if you want more on this, but I would submit that it's got to be done through a certain lens, and that's kind of what I'm getting at. So you as a leader, when you came back from from this journey um and this trip that you were on, you know, it affected your coaching, but what how did it affect you? Like what did you do different? What different outlooks about leadership did you have? Did you have any selfish connotations around leadership that were changed because of this? Or, you know, were you already pretty squared away in that area and it just reinforced? Did it change the way you interacted with people every day? What manifestations did you see coming out of that?

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Yeah, that's a that's a fantastic question. I would say there's there's kind of two different trains of thought here. So there's the the short-term effect, and then I would say the longer term effect. I would say the short term, and then like I'll I'll break it into a a bigger, more grandiose idea. But the short term, like I it was like a uh it was a busy season during that for me. Um, and so like I I kind of looked at this vacation as a pause and like oh okay, I'm just kind of gonna be a flat fat a fat blob for this period. And then like after that, then I was like, no, like I I really do want to go work out in the morning and I I do want to um to read and grow and do all these things. Um and really like and I was still doing those, just not to like a hundred percent of my capability. Um, so I think it reinforced that in the short term. Um, and it made me like really like okay, so we get on the flight back and I'm listening to a master class because Delta has it for free on there, um, like all the things. So short term, like uh an immediate mindset flip. I would say long term, I would say it also made a large mindset flip for me. Um, because I I I do think sometimes even the best leaders in the world can get caught up with the idea of okay, if I if I just get to this level, or if I just get our company to If I just get my family to this level, if we get this next house, or if we get the car paid off, or whatever it is, um, then I will be that much happier. And I I think the key here from from what I learned is that sometimes you're going through difficulty, but there's always beauty in that difficulty as well. So the sled the the the lead sled dog faces the wind resistance. They face the like I didn't, I don't think I said this earlier, but they I mean they're they're going through 10 each 10 inch deep snow and negative 40, absolutely insane. Um, but they are forming the path for the rest of the dogs. It's like they are literally they have to trudge through, so it takes a little bit more resistance every single time. And they do it all for some reason. Now, dogs that may be vo motivated by treats or whatever it is, but like if you could kind of put yourself in the least furry, weird way possible, if you could put yourself in their shoes during that 1925 story, and like ultimately they did it for those kids that were potentially gonna die if they didn't get the serum. So it it it changed my why a little bit, like broadly speaking, of like, okay, this may not always be easy, but I know that through the difficulty there's beauty. Um, even the season that we're in right now, it's a it's a very, very busy season at work, which is awesome. Glad to glad to have all the sales. Um, but then also trying to figure out child care and and supporting a kid at home and making sure that all that's straight. Um and it it's it's beautiful. It's difficult, but it's beautiful. Um does that answer your question?

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Yeah, it does. And I'm just sitting here think listening to you and thinking about the story and just you know, it's just not exactly what the episode's about, but I'll I'll get back to that in just a second. But it just the all of it just highlights that we are wired as humans for service. Because if you think about the story you told, what were the dogs doing? They were delivering, and I know the dogs didn't know what they were doing, they were just following commands, but but the humans involved in that they were trying to get medicine to save lives, which is service, right? And I was just sitting here thinking like every every movie i i uh you know, Hollywood for all its shortcomings, they do tend to make movies that resonate with people because that's how they make their money. And what movies resonate with people, they're they're the ones that get back to what matters in life, right? They're the ones that focus on service. And I'm just going through all these movies in my head, and whether it's superheroes saving the world, service, right? Whether it's you know the the family that's gone sideways but get back to the roots of what it means to be a mom or a dad or a family, which is service. Um, you know, all these movies, what romantic movies, it doesn't matter. They're all acts of service. And the reason they they make these movies is because it's what resonates with humans, because we are wired for service. So ultimately, if you want to be a great leader, you it starts with service. We're talking about leaders go first. Well, uh my guess is if you're a leader, you're leading people, and you need them to serve on some level, well then you the leader have to go first and model that that you know service heart and service mindset. And and it is, it's what fills us up, it's what it's supposed to be about. I posted something on social media uh within the last couple days and somebody commented, uh they might have been on TikTok, but somebody commented, isn't it too big of an ask to ask? Like he said, mentions the fact that I talk about leaders should love their people. And when we talk about loving people, it's not in a romantic sense, right? It's just in in what God calls us to do. I love you, brother. I love you back, brother. Um but uh but he said, Isn't that too big of an ask for people? And I'm thinking, it it's too big of an ask for some people, and those people will never be truly leaders. And we wonder why there's a dearth of leadership in the world, is because there's too few people who have the capabilities to love their fellow humans like they deserve to be loved. And we talk about love, it is not love is not acceptance, right? Love is not allowing them to do bad things or get away with things or sin or whatever. Love is is holding the line, holding the standard, holding people accountable, not judging as best we can. I it that's a very that's a big ass not to judge, but at the same time, that that's what we're we're we're called to do is help people grow and develop and realize their goals and and get them to where they want to be. And sometimes that involves hard conversations, tough feedback, saying things that are hard to say, and sometimes it means just putting your arm around somebody and showing them love and care. So my guess is most people want an organization that exemplifies all those things. And if that's the organization you want and you want to work with people, for people, or you want people to work for you that show up every day to serve each other and serve the team and serve the client, serve the customer, which is most businesses, well, dang it, it's got to start with you, the leader. And that's where, you know, one of the many areas that leaders have to go first. You have to be that guy or girl. You have to show up every day. You talk about the dogs can't have a bad day. Well, leaders can't really either. We can have bad days, but we have to still conduct ourselves a certain way through those bad days. And and I I think as you were talking, all that was going through my head of this is what it's supposed to be. And those dogs and and those handlers exemplified that through that story.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Yep. Yep. And the idea of the that you model everything, like that lead dog models every single thing. So you set the tone for everything. Like you come in with a piss poor attitude every single day. Makes everyone else have a piss-poor attitude. Even if they don't have it to your face because you have authority, they're still gonna have it behind your back. It affects everything. Um, one of the uh I was watching a video um like right before we hit record of this. I didn't like it, it just clicked in my mind. I don't know if this was on purpose or if it's just a really, really cool, like um fun coincidence. But like they introduce you to all the dogs like that you're riding with, and they start with the back, and then they like they they're so they're giving treats to each dog and then they like then they feed them after. But they did both of these in the same order. They they fed the the back dogs first and then the the lead dog a last.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Which is a pretty cool, like, I don't know if it's a coincidence, they do that on purpose. I couldn't tell you, but really, really cool concept.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

No, absolutely. You know, so kind of bringing some concepts to light here before we wrap the show up. So, as a leader, if you're a leader, you're listening to this, you're trying to be a better leader, just know when something really hard has to be done, when a cultural advancement or evolution has to be done, you have to go first. You have to model that behavior, right? So any characteristic you want in your team, you have to exemplify. I don't mean skill or talent. That's not what I mean. You're gonna have a team made up of different levels of skill and talent, and people have different areas of strength. But when you talk about a characteristic, let's say that you want your people to manage their emotions better. Well, you got to do it first. All right, you want people to grow and develop. Well, you got to do it first. You want people to manage ego and show more humility. Well, you gotta show do it first. Um, you want people to realize a standard or or or live up to a standard. You have to live up to that standard first. And then you also have to not tolerate anything lesser than that standard, but it always has to start with you. And I'm not sure every leader sees it through that lens. They they because it's really hard, right? It's really hard to live up to that every day. This is why I talk about leadership as a mindset, right? You have to show up every day. Uh uh a switch has to flip in your head, and I am in I am a leader, and I have to conduct myself a certain way. Now, I was with a bunch of the people that Isaiah and I both lead last night for the Super Bowl. They were at my house and uh I guess they had played football earlier in the day, and they were telling the story about they they were they were all goofing off uh uh between games and they were they were saying some inappropriate things, and and there were some other leaders there from our organization that they were laughing because they're like, oh, so-and-so, I don't think they liked it. We said that, ha ha ha ha. And I stopped them and I said, You realize that you're a leader whether you're at work or not, right? You realize that when you're around people that you work with, you are a leader and you have to conduct yourself, whether you're playing football or you're actually in the building, you're still a leader and you can't say the things that you're saying, knowing that the person hearing them is getting upset or offended by them. And and it that's what I mean by mindset. Like something's got to shift in our head if we're gonna be a great leader. And it it's a responsibility we have to accept. It will never be a default that we are. And and and you have to understand that. And there's a there's an old adage in leadership that you have to bleed before you ask others to bleed. So, what are you doing every day to model the characteristics you want out of your individuals on your team? What are you doing every day to show up and model the culture that you want? What are you doing every day to show up and model the standard that you want? Because that's got to come first. So you, the leader, have to set that tone if you want the people around you to follow.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

I love it. I love it. I think about the idea of modeling a lot, and it's it pushes me to be a better me, like very, very often. But like now, I'm I'm starting to think of it through the lens as a father. But like, what if I like let's just say my daughter in the future wants to be a gymnast and like you know, she's gotta practice her routines and skills and and all that pretty often. I know nothing about gymnastics other than what my what my wife has taught me. So I will not be able to help much in that realm other than what I can learn off of YouTube and chat. Um, and I will do all those things, but like I think about that and I'm like, okay, well, I can still coach work ethic, I can still coach showing up every day. Um, I can still make sure that she gives her best effort effort every single time. And I have to do that with my interactions with her. So if it's I'm I'm talking with her, whatever it is, she deserves my full effort. And that's me modeling that. Like she knows subconsciously that I will model that. Now she doesn't know at the moment because she's like three months old. But like in the future, I will have to do that. And when she sees her dad working out, it's not like I'm just going through the motions, half-assing this. Like, she needs to see me giving full effort so that when she goes to her gymnastics practice, she will give full effort.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Yeah, that's I I love that you brought that back to the household because you know you and I talk about a lot that leadership is leadership no matter where you're at. And a lot of the ways that you lead at work need to be done at home. It might look a little different because the level of of connection, emotion, intimacy is different, but the principles don't change. And and we talk about leaders go first. Well, you, the parent, are the leader. And and whether you're t in the workplace, you know, they say people don't obey titles, they follow examples. It's the same thing at home. They don't, they're they're not, you know, when they're really young, they will, but when they get a mind of their own, an opinion of their own, they're not gonna follow mom and dad because you're mom and dad. They're gonna follow the examples that you said. You know, and and and and it's the same principle. So if you as a father are always flying off the handle at your kids, you're gonna raise kids who fly off the handle too. You know, I I've always thought this was was interesting. You know, my my daughter uh got in trouble at school three years ago, three-ish years ago. She was running around the track at school, and some boy that I think had a crush on her was like messing with her while they were running, and he went to grab her and and you know, just playfully, but he ended up pushing her to the ground and she skint her knee up and her elbows up real bad. And she got up and grabbed the kid by the by the collar. And, you know, part of me was proud of that because, you know, at the moment, in the moment she didn't know that it was playful. And uh and she got in trouble for that because the teacher didn't see the original incident where the kid, you know, grabbed her, slash, pushed her, whatever you want to call it, but the teacher saw the what my daughter did, and my daughter got suspended for a day. And they asked us to come up to the school and and and talk to the the administration. So I I go in there and I'm listening them talk and you know, and and and I can see both sides of it. And uh and they made the comment, you know, well, you know, if that's what happened, and the boy push her, she needs to control her emotions better. And I looked at the administrator and I said, adults can't even do that. But you're asking a 12-year-old kid to do that, you know, and and and the way she looked at me, you could tell I I hit a nerve in a good way. And she said, I have never thought of that. This is a school administrator who should have thought of this a thousand times. She said, I never thought of it that way. And I'm thinking, you know, we as adults, you know, it it's just a uh a story that that illustrates that you know we have to model that behavior first, and we have to ensure that if we want kids and and uh and the people around us to behave a certain way, we have to do it first. And you're talking about working out. You want your kids to be into fitness, you gotta be into fitness. You want your kids to manage their money well, you gotta manage your money well. You want your kids to manage their emotions well, you gotta manage them. You want your kid kids to be to continue to grow and develop, you gotta grow and develop. So it really permeates every area of your life. But at the end of the day, you've assumed the role of leader, or if you want to, and and I would say tread lightly, because I don't think it's for everybody, but if that's what you want to be and that's what you want to do, you have to assume the the requisite responsibilities that come with that and live up live up to it almost all the time.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Yep. Uh I love all that you just said. The the one thing I'll attack on, and I'll leave my thoughts here, is that if you have people around you that are gonna push you to do that all the time is extremely helpful. There are times where I will get emo like very, very upset with our dog if he is not holding his heel or whatever it is, like I will get very frustrated with him. Um and it takes my wife coming beside me to be like, all right, that that's not helping the situation. Um and you need people like that in your life that are gonna hold you accountable and make sure that that you go first and that you eat last.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Yep, a hundred percent. And and that's a good way to wrap up the show. And and and I want everybody listening to this to take that away from it. You know, the some of the concepts we threw out. If you if you want the people around you to bleed, you gotta bleed first. Leaders eat last, but they go first. People don't obey titles, they follow examples. I want you to really start to think about this, process this and and figure out how in your life you're going to exemplify these things. Because whether it's, again, like we said earlier, whether it's you you want the behavior of your team to change, you want the culture to change, you want certain standards to be upheld. Uh, if you want to just prove to the team that that things are possible, right? That these things can be done, that your these these lofty goals you have are are able to be accomplished, then you, the leader, have to step up and model it first. So when you model it, it it proves that something can be done. When you model it, it it builds trust, and then people follow suit. And then what happens is the standards, the culture, and the results rise accordingly. I I hope that everyone listening uh understands, and I hope I hope you understand if you want to be a leader, you've assumed a responsibility. You know, leadership's not a reward, it's a responsibility, and it's one we have to take seriously. And I I I may butcher this slightly, but I know John Maxwell has a quote that leaders don't just go the way they show the way. And and that is another way to say leaders go first. Uh hopefully that resonates. Hopefully that's something you can take with you and figure out how you're going to apply that to every area of your life. And with that being said, Isaiah, anything to wrap this show up?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Amen to all that, brother. Amen to all that.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Cool. All right, man. Well, we'll talk next week. We'll be back with a new episode. Uh, in the meantime, as always, if you want to leave a review or or a star rating for us, that would be incredibly appreciated. Uh, you know how I, Isaiah and I feel about this. If you think we earned a five star, we would love to have that. If you do not think we earned that, do not give that to us. But do give us the feedback we need to hear to get better and improve so we can make this podcast exactly what you want it to be and needed to be. So with that, we'll wrap it up and we'll see you guys next week.