Kind of a Big Deal

​​Scared? Do It Anyway!

• Kristin Belden • Season 1 • Episode 4

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What if the best career move isn't finding "your one thing" - but taking continuous action even when fear creeps in?

Join me as I sit down with Polly Allen, who spent formative career years helping build Amazon's Alexa, and now shares her expertise by helping others get hands-on with AI. Our conversation explores her journey from being the only woman in the room to becoming a champion for diversity in AI leadership.


You'll Learn:

⭐ Why believing we have to find "our thing" can get in the way of progress

⭐ What it was like to usually be the only woman in the room

⭐ How only ~15% of AI researchers are women (and what she's doing to change this)

⭐ The power of taking continuous action even when it feels hard

 

Key Insights:

  • Action Over Perfection: Taking consistent action, even when afraid, builds momentum and creates opportunities that waiting for the "perfect moment" never will.
  • Breaking Barriers in Tech: Navigating male-dominated spaces requires resilience, but also creates a responsibility to open doors for others.
  • The Myth of "Finding Your Thing": Success often comes from trying multiple paths rather than waiting to discover one perfect calling.
  • Democratizing AI: Making AI accessible and understandable is essential for ensuring diverse perspectives shape its future.


Timestamps:

[00:00] Opening: The scariest pivot can lead to the most fulfilling work

[03:45] Polly's background: From software developer to Amazon Alexa product leader

[09:20] The first attempt at entrepreneurship and why it didn't work

[15:04] Why business growth is personal growth

[17:41] Action creates clarity: How to move forward when you're scared

[24:07] The listening tour that shaped AI Career Boost

[30:22] Being labeled "shrill" and the reality of being a woman in AI

[34:11] Breaking down AI Career Boost: Hands-on learning for product leaders

[36:53] Amazing student projects: From menstrual cycle workouts to recipe builders

[39:38] Building a legacy one person at a time


 Resources and Links:


If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review! And if you're interested in more stories and tools for women leaders, sign up for my newsletter at Beldenstrategies.com. Let's continue to empower each

Polly podcast
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Speaker 2: [00:00:00] What if the career pivot that feels the scariest could actually lead to the most fulfilling work of your life? Today's guest went from the pressure cooker of Amazon Alexa, working with the same AI technology that powers chat GPT back in 2020 to building something with more joy and lightness. Polly is a computer scientist, turned a product leader who's now helping professionals get hands-on with ai, not just talk about it theoretically.

We're diving into what it really takes to pivot from corporate life, why AI feels different from any technological shift we've seen before, and how to build a legacy one person at a time. This is kind of a big deal.



Speaker 3: Hi, Polly . Hello. 

Speaker 4: Hello. So good to see you. It's so good to be here. Thanks for having me on. For sure. Welcome to kind of a big deal and, uh, we talked about this yet, the actual title? No. Okay. I love it. This is my, my nod to the fact that we as women typically tend [00:01:00] to kind of brush off the impact that we have or, you know, the, like, it was just kind of a big deal.

Um, but in truth. Our leadership journeys and the careers we build and lives we build really are a big deal. And so it's my nod to the two sides of the equation. 

Speaker 3: Love it. 

Speaker 4: Love it. Um, so I'm so, so glad you're here. Um, and I, I typically start with a little. Tiny background on kind of what our relationship is or how we found each other.

Um, so Polly was a speaker at a conference. The same conference actually that I've mentioned in a previous episode, uh, through the LEAP Academy. Polly also went through the program and we've talked a lot about kind of what we gained from that experience. But pretty cool full circle moment for her, I might imagine.

Is she wound up on stage at that conference, uh, instead of as a participant in the conference? Absolutely. Uh, earlier this year, which was really, really cool. And I was really struck by how she shared [00:02:00] how intentionally she was building what she's building currently. And, um. She's the type of person that you might be a little intimidated to reach out to 'cause you're like, she's so cool and she's got so much awesome stuff to 

Speaker 3: say.

Believe me, I knew me in high school. I was never, never cool. 

Speaker 4: Now here we are, another full circle moment. It's a little different now. Um, but I will say I, I took a chance and I reached out and I was immediately met with warmth. And an excitement to connect. And so I think that's just a testament to how, uh, how wonderful you are.

And we don't even know each other that well. So I'm excited to get. To chat a little bit more with you today. 

Speaker 3: Oh, thanks so much. I was so glad, so glad to connect. Um, especially after that conference. Um, I feel like that that program was really foundational in me pivoting from a pretty tough place in my career to something that now is, um, there's a lot more joy and lightness in it.

Speaker 4: I felt this has been kind of a theme actually [00:03:00] lately in my conversations, just this recognition that sometimes there are these. Harder moments that they lead eventually to something that's so much better on the other side. And it's just having to walk through that to actually get there. And it can feel challenging 'cause you don't know what's on the other side.

We can't see it. You can't envision it, so you have to walk through it. Um, so you're not alone in that. I think many of us have had to pivot. Um, so maybe, we'll, we'll start there. Just kind of, um, you know, I know you had mentioned in a conversation we've had previously that. You were in a more traditional kind of corporate space, um, before you launched your own company.

So maybe give us just a little bit of your background and, and where, where you started. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, my background is in computer science. Um, I had originally done the computer science degree and undergrad and a master's degree. Um, and I'd. I worked as a software developer for many years in companies, large and [00:04:00] small.

Um, and from behind the scenes, some behind the scenes companies like Schneider Electric, which is like a huge company that no one's heard of because they only sell to businesses kind of thing, um, through to small startups, to, um, Amazon was, uh, a place that I'd worked, um, both as a software engineering leader.

And, uh, and then eventually transitioned into product management, which is a little more, I, I, somewhere about 10 years into my career, I figured out, uh, that my, like yen to understand the user and really figure, make sure that everyone's building the right thing, that they're all gonna figure out how they're gonna fit together.

Um, that this was a role called product management and, uh, and that, that was really a deep passion of mine as well. Um, so moving into product management was really exciting. And then most recently I had landed a role at, uh, at Amazon, uh, Amazon's Alexa. So working at Amazon Alexa with ai, we were working with the same technologies that underlie chat PT back in 2020.

Wow. [00:05:00] And launching the very first. Uh, answers on Alexa that were generative. So we didn't know exactly what Alexa was going to say before she said it. Managing a lot of risk for the first time around people's kids and stuff like that. It was, it was really a highlight of my career. Um, but it is well known to be, you know, high pressure environment, pressure cooker.

Um, it is very, you know, male dominated, but it's also just, um, a place that's full of very competitive. Uh, energy, striving energy that, um, that can be, that can be a lot for people to deal with. Right? Yeah. 

Speaker 4: I mean, that's incredible that you, and we'll get to what you're building now, but so much of it is built, I'm sure, on some of that foundational awareness of what you are building there.

Um, how are you seeing this moment as we, you know, are kind of just full steam ahead with all things? Yeah. Ai are you. Are you feeling excited? Are you feeling I, I imagine excited mostly, but you know, kind of excited. 

Speaker 3: [00:06:00] Excited mostly. And then of course, it's like, it brings so many opportunities and it brings so many risks.

Mm-hmm. Um, it's hard 'cause I feel like we don't have a lot we can compare it to in our lifetimes. Right. People like to compare it to the internet. At the end of the internet. I was like, even that is, maybe, is maybe, um. Underselling the biggest changes to our economy and how we work. Um, and I think it's because it's even like more personal.

People are finding these personal interactions with. AI now, and they're like striving to understand what it means to them to feel attachment to a machine and what does it mean for our kids and what kind of skills should we instill in them. Um, I felt like that was clearer in the internet age, where it's like, we better learn about computers, it better learn about the internet.

Um, right now everyone's like, what can, what can I do to like, feel valuable in this, in this new age? And pinning [00:07:00] that down has been like incredibly elusive, especially when there's so much hype about what they could eventually do someday versus what they really do today. 

Speaker 4: Yes. So interesting you just mentioned the kind of human connection side of it, because I was talking to my husband the other day and he is like, well, have you named.

Your GPT yet. And I'm like, what are you talking about? No. And he is like, oh, mine's Tay. And I'm like, what do you mean there's this Tay? Like, whatcha you talking about? Excuse me? Like do I need to feel like in competition with Tay? 

Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. 

Speaker 4: And I mean all of it is just so interesting 'cause you do feel like even though it's logic based and it's pulling, you know, from particular information I do ask.

PT based on, you know, after months and months of it pulling in from my queries and, and data and whatnot. It does feel in some ways that it, quote unquote, knows you and it, it, I can only imagine if it feels like that now. Yeah. What it'll feel like in a year or five. Right. Exactly. Yeah. No, [00:08:00] it's, it's, it's uncanny.

Yeah. And the kid piece, right. I have a nine and a 6-year-old. I think all the time about the fact that we are, our education system is certainly not going to get up to speed in the time that it needs to, especially at this moment. So what do we as parents do to try and supplement some of that education or expose them or share with them?

Absolutely. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think the, um, the piece that. I, I hope to instill like I have three step kids and like when people ask, what do you think about hoping they'll learn, it's more about like the human side of understanding business, which has already been very human, right? Which it comes down to that empathy of like.

What do people need? What is the pain point they're having? How did they feel it? Of course, chat, GPT could come up with like marketing copy, but you'll know if it actually rings true or not, if you've developed those relationships and talked to the people that you're trying to help. Right. 

Speaker 4: That [00:09:00] is such a good point.

Yeah. Very interesting. Um. I would like to talk about, you know, some of your experience around what it meant to be a female leader in such a Yeah. Male dominated space. But maybe let's take it one step further back, because totally what I remember, you had started your own business prior to joining Amazon, is that right?

And then you That's right. Launched another company after. So maybe give us just a minute on what you were building prior to joining Amazon and then second part of that conversation is. What feels different this time around as you're building this version of your company? 

Speaker 3: Absolutely. Um, so the. So, well, I first le tried, attempted to leave, um, big tech or just like tech companies or working for other people in 2017.

I think I'd always had, had the appeal of like doing consulting, contracting. I really just wanted the freedom Yeah. To be able to like. Work sometimes takes time, time off, dial it up, dial it down. I just knew that would suit me. And [00:10:00] I also kind of like hopping around from different projects, um, get bored easily.

So I was excited to, to try that out. But I think I got caught in, in a sort of a, a vortex that many, many people do when they set out to leave working for companies. And that's just not realizing ahead of time how. How different it, how courageous, but how different what you're doing really is in terms of.

Um, you're so, you're so programmed that like you will get validation from someone will tell you what to do and you'll do it and they'll be like, good job. You know? And, uh, and then we're not necessarily great at doing that for ourselves and acknowledging the wins along the way, you know, so I think I had felt.

Like I was spinning my wheels and not really finding exactly what I wanted to do. I spent a lot of time thinking about what I wanted to do and then changing my mind. Um, and uh, yeah, three or four months in I had [00:11:00] kind of started panicking, feeling like I'm not, I'm not finding it, I'm not finding the thing that only I can do.

And then it's really easy to get that mindset. Negativity slip it. Maybe I don't have anything that's that special. Maybe this isn't just, this just isn't meant for me. You know, like it was, I was finding, found myself fighting my way out of that a lot. And, uh. And it just so happened at that point that the guy I was dating now, now I'm married to, he was living in the States.

I was living in Canada and he had some like issues crossing the border one time. And it was funny how quickly I was like, oh yeah, I know. Three months ago this was like my life dream, but like now, no, absolutely. I need to live on the same side as the border view. We need to figure this out. I obviously need to get a job in the States.

Um, what, uh, what kind of companies provide visas for Canadians to live in the States? This is, this is a massive, massive issue. He was kinda like. It's not, I'm like, Nope. Absolutely. This is life changing. So it's so funny how, um, too, I, I see it [00:12:00] sometimes in others now where these things that are like minor things, they make big things outta 'cause it's, it's an excuse like, we're so, we will fight so hard to keep the status quo of like, feeling safe and what we know.

Um, and unless you're like. Ready for that? Yeah. Just simply, I give myself grace now. I just wasn't, I just didn't know. Mm. I, I wasn't prepared for, for that. And I had no idea and I had no real supports around me. Like other, I didn't know other people who were going through starting a business. I, um, I didn't know other people who were, who were, had done it and like.

I knew I had some mentors that I could call, but I think it wasn't like I had a community around me. Um, yes. Or a real like, Hey, step one, do X, you know, so, so I think that was, that was a really big part of it. So obviously it, it was, it was my dream job. Um, it ended up being a highlight, like I said, of my, of my career and one of the most intellectually stimulating things I've done.

One of the best. [00:13:00] Team where I just really appreciated working with the top tier, um, AI and data science team and getting to learn from them. It was incredible, incredible opportunity. So it was one of those things I don't regret. Mm-hmm. Um, but, but I think it was interesting, like I definitely know in retrospect.

I could have make it work. And if I had, my plan was at the time was called data product strategy. I think at the, like get data savvy, I had some very high level helping, um, product leaders get deeper into data and understanding that slightly more techy side. Um, and then during COVID I was like, oh man, if I had an online course right now, I'm gonna be killing it.

Like. There's always, you know, what if, um, that goes into it, right? Obviously the timing of working in the space of helping product leaders upskill in AI is just as good, if not better than, than COVID would've been. Um, so it's, uh, it's funny how when, if you find you take a chance to. Find the thing [00:14:00] that's, that's right for you.

Often you'll find it's, it leads to being in the right place at the right time. 

Speaker 4: That is such a beautiful way of saying it because I remember this so well. In another conversation we had where you shared that there can be this kind of pressure to find the thing like if you are branching out on your own and you are, you know, looking to build.

That if you don't find the thing that you were the most passionate about, that you are uniquely positioned to solve for. And it is, I think especially like. As women, as perfectionists, right? Not to say that it doesn't apply to all genders, but there can be this tendency to like, well, I better nail this thing.

Speaker 3: Right? And, and it, and it's, and, and it has to be for life. Like this is your passion. So if you go out and tell people it's your passion and then you change it six months later, such a flake and like this has to be super real and it's a commitment. It's not. It's not. 

Speaker 4: And you can evolve. And we do evolve.

Like everything. You had also shared something, and [00:15:00] I wrote it down because I didn't wanna forget it. Business growth is personal growth, and I believe in that. So wholeheartedly, these two things cannot be bifurcated, that if your business is evolving or you are. Leading a business that is in some kind of change or shift that you as a leader and you as a human inevitably go through some kind of evolution yourself.

And it's about, I think, recognizing that a little bit and giving grace for yourself. 'cause it can also be really uncomfortable, frankly. Yeah. To, to go through those transitions or to navigate those evolutions. But I think another point you made, that's one of the biggest hack that I think everyone would do well to find is.

Who are your people? Who's your community, and how do you surround yourself? Absolutely. With the folks that are gonna be. Not just cheering you on because it's like, rah, rah, you know, that's all Well good, but it's, 

Speaker 3: you have friends. Yes. That's fantastic. But 

Speaker 4: it's other people that are either also seeking something that [00:16:00] may not be exactly what you're seeking, but it is something more than what they have in this moment, or they're looking to shift or build or leap or whatever you want to call it.

And I think that that, um, I had no idea how much that would mean until, you know, I got about a year and a half into. Branching out on my own when it starts to feel like the rubber's hitting the road a little bit more and you're like, oh, 

Speaker 3: oh, oh, yeah. It has to actually work. Yes. 

Speaker 4: Yes. Because to your point, if you have been either in corporate or more traditional kind of employment space for a long time, which I had as well.

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Speaker 4: I did not do great with the wide open pastures in the very beginning. Like I, I really was a great rule follower in my day-to-day, you know, nine to five, and I knew exactly how to position my day to be the most efficient to do the things, and nothing wrong with that at all. But it's does not apply to when you're out on your own.

It just doesn't, you [00:17:00] have to create those systems for yourself or you have to. Build new pillars and it takes time. Um, and it is not easy. 

Speaker 3: Totally. And, and yeah, it's, it's, uh, it is one of those things when people, you know, ask about how do you, there, the, the most questions I get is just like, well, how did you do it?

'cause it's like a lot of people have like. Mental ideas of like, they think they know what to do, but it's like somehow they just can't sit down day after day and make themselves do it. And 

Speaker 4: Yes. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, I think the most motivating thing for me was the clarity that came, actually it was from, um, Alana's program, from that lead program where we met at the conference.

Right. Which was that action or clarity comes through action. Yes. And then I think I've just absorbed this from other places as well, that idea of like. Feel fear. Feel the fear, but do it anyway. Like the number of times, especially early days, I could feel myself and recognize, okay, [00:18:00] I'm coming up with a reason I can't do X, and recognizing that it's an excuse, and so you're like, oh man, like I'm really sorry.

You're gonna have to do it Scared. 

Speaker 4: Yes. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. And how few things we do when you're working in a corporate space. We do Scared. Yeah. Right. A lot of it is around organizing, around psychological safety. And we have managers that make sure we feel prepared and aren't gonna like, let us just totally flounder and fail in front of important people, hopefully.

Um, and now it's on you. You don't know what you don't know. You might you that, that like actually taking that chance of you have to fail and feeling the fear and doing it anyway. But that's what led me to like, I'm going to call and have conversations with people who might be interested in this and actually really understand what the pain points were and, and use those same words back in the marketing I'm using in the webinar.

You know, it's actually not, um, I thought marketing and sales were these big, like rocket science, Jedi mind trick [00:19:00] skills and it's like. Find someone who has a problem help them. 

Speaker 4: That's really, you're totally right. I think that, um, I did something similar, which was, go on, which actually is what led me to starting this series was I went on this kind of listening tour of.

When I closed my eyes and thought of like, who do I really wanna work with? Who do I wanna serve? And every time I closed my eyes, it was a badass woman I've either worked with or for, or would love to work with or for. And because so much of my work has been in these moments of evolution, I was like, alright, this feels like the right kind of pulling together of who I wanna work with or who I wanna support and what my longtime experience has been.

And. So that was the first thing I did was I reached out to some of those women that I had as my, like, gosh, I would just kill, yeah. Work with this person. Or, oh man, I remember from 10 years ago when we worked together and she was so incredible and. Those [00:20:00] conversations, that is what actually helps you, I think, build for what you're trying to solve.

Because you can make a lot of assumptions and I was also about, you know, what those pain points might be, but you uncover so much from those chats and you of course start to see some interesting patterns and you know, some things that all feel somewhat relevant across the thread no matter what. Kind of stage the person's in, whether it's building a business or leading a team of a thousand, is there's something in that through line that kind of resonates for all.

So yeah, I, I would highly recommend that for anybody that's thinking about doing this work. Especially if you're service oriented, like go talk to your, 

Speaker 3: exactly. That. That was the thing as I was like, I, maybe I just don't know enough non-service oriented people, but I think I was very afraid that I'm not.

Motivated by money enough that I'm like, I really need to make enough money to live. And I was like, that's [00:21:00] not motivating me. I'm going to start and die. Um, so like, you know, but every time I talked to someone and it wasn't like I help leaders thrive in ai, it was like, no, like. Jessica has been working really, really hard to get into this space for five years, and she just doesn't understand what she's missing and she's got these kinds of roles and I think I could, well, what would I do to help her?

You know? Yeah. Yes. And when, and it is like, that was what really helped me gel was like, okay, let's find some common problems. Okay. Do we have enough people with this problem to do it as a group workshop? Um, that was the thread that I helped, that, like I pulled, that helped me. Yeah. You know, stay motivated and keep going.

Yeah. Um, because just frankly, like earning enough money wasn't, wasn't enough. Or it would, or it would take you to like getting just barely enough. Yeah. And maybe you're fine. Right. And, uh, when really it's like you [00:22:00] recognize, hey, what I'm doing is really important and really impactful. It's important that I grow it so I can impact more people.

Okay. Now I'm, now I'm motivated. Right? 

Speaker 4: Yeah, a hundred percent. Um, I think it's a good moment to kind of share a little bit more about what you are building, because this is a good transition from, you know, you, you have shared with me too, that as you were thinking about the foundation for this current.

Company that you're building, it was that you wanted actual kind of representation and leadership in this emerging space and how can we help more people? And I mean, it really is an incredible way to think about building a business. Not to just be in service of a bottom line, but how am I gonna have a real impact in a space that is, you know, still somewhat, I don't, controversial is not the right word, but there is a lot of talk about, you know, what.

What is our responsibility as builders in these spaces to make sure that we're being inclusive and that we're bringing in the right voices. So that was something that really [00:23:00] struck me as you were sharing about what you are building. So I'd love for you to give a little bit of, um, what you're up to.

Speaker 3: Totally. Yeah, exactly. Um, so my company's called AI Career Boost and we run workshops, boot camps for product leaders generally, although we have, um, definitely worked with folks who are interested in any. Anybody who wants a little more depth in understanding how software products that have AI under the hood are developed.

Um, and so folks have come from design project management, a big one, marketing. Um, there's a different life cycle to, and, and different risk considerations to mitigate when you're building AI products and traditional software products. A lot of those, we went through the bumps firsthand at Alexa and came up with.

Best practices and ways to mitigate them that worked and got things launched and working at scale. Um, that, and that's, a lot of organizations are going through that bumpy ride themselves right now. [00:24:00] And then, yeah, the diversity angle is so, um, interesting to me. 'cause I, I, I had always worked in a male dominated industry.

I remember sort of being the 10 to 20% in the software development world and for years and years and years, I'd. Not let it bother me or like, I didn't think it bothered, it didn't, at the time. I didn't think it bothered me. Right. Um. It was kind of cool to be like, Hey, there's not very many women here. And I definitely felt like I had done a lot of adaptation though in my career to feel like one of the guys, you know, I don't want 'em to feel uncomfortable around me.

I'll tell Rauner jokes than they do. No, I can hang, you know, this kind of thing. Um, and like it felt like a little bit of a, you know, definitely moments where I had to prove myself. Maybe I wouldn't have if it was a different demographic. Right. Um, but it wasn't really until I was deep into, um, AI teams that [00:25:00] I was really, really frustrated to see that it was getting, I had thought that this would be something that like could increase.

You know, the inclusion that you see of folks other than, other than white and Indian dudes basically in the, in the, just in the, who's building this? Yeah. And it was really sort of skewing the other way. I remember being in a meeting of like, um, 30 people. I was promoted to principal PM and it was like.

That team, sort of the leadership team was 30 people in a room and the only woman were me and the executive assistant. And um, and, and just like strange things that happen when you're the only woman in the room where at least in meetings where there's like another woman you have someone to commiserate with afterwards and just say like.

Hey, that idea was also great when you brought it up first. Yes. Like, so you know, you're not going crazy. Right. And I know, I remember I spent a lot of time, it was like a, a little bit of a mental [00:26:00] tax to kind of always go like, okay, is this, am I making this up? Yes. Is this happening because I'm a woman? Am I making too big a deal about this in my own head?

Do I need to let it go? At what point do I actually need to bring this up to someone? And just like continually trying to let it go, let it go, let it go over over time. And so it was definitely something that I think was part of my eventual, like basically burnout and leaving Amazon was that kind of overhead and tax of just like.

Okay, is this, I I'm always striving to improve. I'm trying to see what I'm doing wrong or what, where I can be better. 'cause that's like the mindset always. And then you're like, okay, but is there something here that's happening that's really not fair and, and how can I bring this up? In a way that's productive and it's gonna lead to the results I want.

And isn't like combative and like, that's so much mental energy to try to think of ways that you can do that. Right? So it's a lot of gymnastics 

Speaker 4: to, to, well, and [00:27:00] then you shared with me and, and I hope it's okay to, to share this and, but even in a review, it wasn't even about your technical abilities. You were.

Labeled shrill by someone. Is that right? Am I remembering? 

Speaker 3: I, I had heard, um, I wasn't supposed to know this, but I had heard from the party that like this had come up in the review and that like the, the idea of like, she's great, but she's shrill about. Things like legal concerns. 

Speaker 4: I just can't, it's like, I mean, shout out to Lindy West, who, if anyone has not read her work, she literally has a book.

Yeah. It's real. And it's about this exact experience, which is, it is about how people expect you to show up as a human, not about your ability on the job or what you bring to the table, and. That's wild. I mean, the fact that it's not wild because we all have experienced this in some way, shape, or form, most of us anyways.

And you know, these kind of things [00:28:00] continue to just undercut the real contributions of people like yourself who were pivotal in shaping a massive piece of technology. And I mean, it has led to you building something incredible, which is amazing. But bummer that they lost you because it could have been a supportive.

Environment. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And it's, it just, it speaks to like, I'm pretty sure in that review environment, there were no women in the room. 

Speaker 4: Right? 

Speaker 3: Right. Like I, I don't know that for sure, but like there's a different reaction to that word that we have just because of an awareness and a lived experience, right.

That some organizations maybe who have more long-term view are going to say, oh, I appreciate having someone in the room who can like raise the red flag. And give opportunities to raise the red flag of like, Hey, you know, what's the feedback mechanism to say there's something off here, right? And that we need to [00:29:00] address.

I just don't think like, and there's an element of some organizations are either blind to that or like. Actually don't want it at this moment are resistant to it, are going to, are like, we're not gonna provide those feedback mechanisms. We don't care. Right. You know, that's not the kind of thing we're optimizing for right now, you know?

But I think there's, to 

Speaker 4: the judgment. Yes. It's like almost, I, I, we talk a lot about culture and organizations. Right. But it, to me, there's not one size fits all. But you do have to intentionally share what your culture is in some way. Yeah. If that is the case and you are brought in to be. A worker be or do the thing or, and you we're not asking for your feedback.

You can't put it out there like you are. You can't, you know, you can't make it. Yeah. Seem like this is Mo meant to be. We're super open. Culture and trust and Yeah. Forget like that doesn't, that the bait and switch is never gonna work. Yeah. If you can just say out loud like, you know what, we are building and we're building fast and right now bottom line means everything.

Please keep your opinions to yourself. Honestly, that is another [00:30:00] culture, but you're intentionally setting something in a way that people now know how they are expected to show up. And I think that's a huge piece of it, for sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Speaker 3: And yeah, and it, and it's, um. It's just crazy how I feel like the darker side of big tech culture is just being amplified.

Um, in AI in particular right now, it was already a place where something like 15% of AI researchers are women. Um, it's less than computer science, which is less than any other of the sciences. Like it has actually decreased since the 1980s. Whereas every single other branch of science that participation by women has increased.

Um. Uh, and I remember basically it feels like a personal frustration that I felt like if what I could do at my company was just make sure people like me had just one other woman in the room. And it wasn't necessarily that they had to be an engineer or a PhD in a PhD in in ai. Um, but there were [00:31:00] lead other leadership positions that could move laterally into that space and participate.

But were being kind of geek, kept out of it. Because they were afraid of the technology because as soon as people start talking tech, so many people are like, oh, coding, there's no way I can like read or look at code and, and very, very resistant to like. It's like everyone's afraid they're suddenly gonna be given an interview and asked to code on the whiteboard or something.

It's like, no one's gonna do that to you. Chill. Right? But I meet so many people. I'm not a coder. I'm not a coder. And I'm like, okay. Like, that's fine. You can still understand how these systems are built. You can understand the concept of like, a can't be slow. Or if we have more people, it's going to, um, it's, it's going to reach its capacity.

You know, like these are standard operations, you know? Concepts, yes, that just happen to be executed in code, but to actually have the real discussions about how this is gonna impact our users and the [00:32:00] right questions to ask with a tech team. Um, I saw way too many people feeling super, super intimidated by that.

And then you're like, oh, and then you add AI on top of it that's even more techie and more obscure. Um, so really the goal, goal of AI Career Boost was to help folks who are already at like leadership levels, learn tech and AI concepts top down instead of like. Bottom up and having to go back and do a computer science degree or a PhD, like a lot of people felt like they would have to in order really to participate in leading these teams.

Um, because so often I had found that like my, even though I had a really deep tech background, that wasn't the most valuable thing I was bringing. To the table, right? It was often that user perspective or um, that sensibility taste in what should be, what should be going out. Um, there's more and more right now in the news about developers are gonna be like, take over and be the new product managers and that kind of thing, and that will work to a point, but.

There's an element of like, part of what you [00:33:00] develop as taste and what the users will, users will like is being out and interacting with people and, you know, empathizing with them. Yep. There's not a lot of people who really want to do both angles of that, and it's a lot of context switching and I still think there's gonna be this deep need for the people who can translate, um, user, user pain points and solu possible solutions and what's gonna hit.

To the folks who are more interested in going technically deep on how do we make sure this doesn't fall over? How do we make sure it's fast enough? How do we make sure it's, it's, you know, all it's within its guardrails, right? Yes. 

Speaker 4: I love that. I think it's, it requires. Empathy to your point, it requires curiosity about, you know, the people you serve or the people that you're working around and for.

Right? So I think that's a really, you know, a good kind of moment for you to maybe share a little bit more about the actual course or the program that folks go through when they come. Yeah, [00:34:00] absolutely. 

Speaker 3: So one of the biggest gaps I had found. Was, um, that people were eager to learn, but, but the concepts around ai, but didn't know how to get hands on or apply it.

Um, there was a lot of like theoretical, Hey, YouTube video, here's how, um, here's the difference between machine learning and generative ai, that kind of thing. But actually getting hands on and then even communicating these new skills. To an audience were kind of areas that, where there were really big gaps.

So the blueprint is really aimed at addressing all three. So of course there's basic, you know, AI knowledge that we aim to bring people up to speed with, um, in a way that really helps 'em sort the hype from factuality. Like, let's read the Apple paper that everyone's freaking out about and understand how much is true.

There's also a big part of the program is building a capstone project. And, uh, and we help along the way. So each of the labs over the Workweek program is focused on a different no code tool to learn to [00:35:00] build with a, a variety of those no code tools out there. There's a big emphasis on developing prototyping as a new skill since these new AI tools can help you do that so much, um, and get out to validate things in the market really easily and quickly.

Um, but then, yeah, we also really, um, have a, have a track all around, Hey, how can I make sure. I'm presenting this at work in a way that will get me chosen to be on that Tiger team that's investigating ai, or I'm looking to transition to a new role. How do I think about the new questions I'll be asked in interviews?

How should I work in AI at the level I'm at? Into my LinkedIn profile, being sure they won't suddenly ask me to code on a whiteboard in the interview. Um, and, and how can I show the signals and proof points they're looking for? There's far too few people who have this experience in the market. So the folks who do, um, are really able to, and, and are able to convey that, are really able to leverage that into, um, new roles, [00:36:00] raises, working on things they're passionate about, which is often what we find people are coming forward is just feeling a little more control in agency in their careers.

So it's been so rewarding to see some of the things people have built. Um, we do track attract about 50% women. It's for, it's for men or women, but I love being able to. Be as inclusive as possible that way, um, and, uh, and making sure that, that we're kind of replicating. A bit of a work environment, but possibly more supportive and more, uh, more, uh, more, more empathetic than some people's work environments out there.

And a place to really learn and grow without, without any judgment, but building something that really is both you're passionate about and something that'll really showcase your strengths that we've devised together. Yeah. Um, I'm really, really proud of the projects that people have been turning out, whether they're founders, consultants, or product leaders coming through.

Speaker 4: Can you share one or two, like Absolutely. Absolutely. That's some really, really 

Speaker 3: fun ones. Um, so one of my favorites was a [00:37:00] custom GPT that one woman made to actually, uh, help you, help you adapt your workouts for where you are in your menstrual cycle. I was just, I was so glad, ev everyone I've spoken to is like, give it to me.

And at the same time I was like, okay, this is the farthest thing from like an Elon Tech bro circle we could get. That makes me so happy. We've had folks that do some really interesting things around, like when you're shopping for a condo and you need to go through the reams of paperwork and understand like, Hey, what are the problems with this potential condo that I need to look at and and sell this vast amounts of information that could be.

Summarized for you highlighting the problems. That was a really interesting one. Um, a recipe builder, one of my favorites. You know how you have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll through all the, the SEO stuff to get to a recipe? Yeah, so, uh, one student built a a place where you can pop in the URL.

It'll just simply pull out the recipe, but you can also personalize it then, [00:38:00] or like, do you need it non-dairy, do you need it local ingredients, organic, that kind of thing. And save the recipe that way. Yeah, so like, these are some of the simple, quick ones that people have built. Um, we've had some more intensive things like stock price.

Trading algorithms that work at, at, uh, at super high latency and things like that as well. So it's been fascinating to see what people are turning out. I 

Speaker 4: love that you're sharing examples that feel like they're accessible to people that don't feel like it's this, you know, you have to kind of take, brush off some of the veneer of what feels like this kind of like big scary, you know, when it's really, if you can get your hands dirty and actually kind of learn.

Modeling and understand it in a different way. I think it's like with anything, it gives you such a different relationship to the, to the technology. So I think that's so cool. And yeah, I don't need to read 75 pages of why you created this recipe. I just wanna have a recipe, next story and 

Speaker 3: doctor up that day and blah blah.[00:39:00] 

Speaker 4: Um, last real question before we get to kind of where folks can find you. Um. You know, part of what I work on with women is as you're in these moments of evolution, like how are you tethering that to what you want your future life to feel and look like? And so a lot of that is around legacy in my mind, that what we're doing now is building towards the legacy.

Not only that we're going to leave, but literally the legacy that we're building toward. So I always like to ask people, what does building a legacy mean to you? Huh? I feel, 

Speaker 3: I think it means it comes back to that, that simplicity of that question of like it, it's much like that question of like, Hey, how do I find my life's passion and go and do that and it's this big high pressure thing, right?

Similarly, like a legacy is only a big thing because it's built slowly day by day and incrementally [00:40:00] and like, I think if so, that leading with. Find a person who has a problem, help them. And if you just do that over and over again, you'll build a legacy, right? It's, it, it'll, it's pretty simple, right?

There's a little of like, start with the end in mind, but in my case, that's, it's almost like built more forward in terms of who crosses your path that needs your help. And you can help. There's no hundred 

Speaker 4: person to be doing it than you is right now. So. So cool to hear your story and kind of what brought you to this moment.

Um, where can people find you? I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of books really interested. Absolutely. Can, can just be on LinkedIn. 

Speaker 3: Um, gimme a follow there. Um, I've got a newsletter, a weekly newsletter on LinkedIn as well as on my website, ai career boost.com. And we also do a monthly masterclass. So the path to ai, product leadership for anyone who might be interested in our programs, um, with Monthly Masterclass is free.

Where we go through the skills that you need to build to thrive and lead in this new AI era. 

Speaker 4: Perfect. Amazing. Thanks. Thank you so much. [00:41:00] Thank you. It so good to see you. Thanks so much. Wonderful 

Speaker 3: to, wonderful to be here. Thanks again. Bye.

Speaker: Thank you so much for listening and spending some of your time with me here. I hope our conversation sparked some new ideas for you. If you enjoyed the episode, please make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's next. And if you're ready for even more tools and stories, head on over to belden strategies.com.

I share fresh insights, stories, and tools every week. Until next time, keep building, keep evolving. And remember you. Are kind of a big deal.