The One Question That Elevates Leadership

What if the best leadership decisions come from asking "what if it were me?"

Join me as I sit down with Laura Harmon, Chief People Officer, to discuss career growth, authentic leadership, and the importance of creating space for others. Laura shares her journey from IT to HR, how being a mother has shaped her leadership style, and why taking pauses can lead to greater intentionality.

You'll Learn:

⭐ The importance of financial literacy for women (and what "F-U money" really means)

⭐ The ripple effect of authentic leadership

⭐ How creating safe spaces has been a theme in both her personal and professional life

⭐ Why asking questions and embracing curiosity never gets old

⭐ How parenthood influences your leadership approach

Key Insights:

• Evolution of HR: Over 25 years, HR has transformed from administrative function to strategic partner, requiring continuous adaptation and learning.
• The Power of Pauses: Taking intentional breaks - whether in conversation or career - creates space for reflection and more thoughtful decision-making.
• Financial Freedom as Leadership Tool: Building financial literacy and having options gives you the power to make values-aligned decisions, especially when facing challenging workplace situations.
• Creativity in Professional Settings: Bringing creative approaches to traditionally structured environments can unlock innovation and engagement.
• Legacy Through Authenticity: True leadership legacy isn't built on perfection—it's built on creating space for others to grow, making mistakes, and learning from them.

Timestamps:

[00:00] - Introduction and background on Kristin and Laura's relationship

[03:00] - Laura's career journey from IT to HR leadership

[08:00] - How HR has evolved over 25 years

[13:00] - The power of asking questions and embracing curiosity

[18:30] - Using creativity in professional settings

[23:00] - How parenthood influences leadership approaches

[30:00] - The courage to make mistakes and learn from them

[36:00] - The importance of taking pauses and being intentional

[44:30] - Building a legacy through authenticity and creating space for others

Resources and Links:

Find host Kirstin Belden on LinkedIn or at Beldenstrategies.com

Youth Leadership Institute (YLI)

Books:

   • "Designing Your Life" by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans

   • "We Should All Be Millionaires" by Rachel Rodgers

   • "Financial Feminist" by Tori Dunlap

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review! And if you're interested in more stories and tools for women leaders, sign up for my newsletter at Beldenstrategies.com/newsletter. Let's continue to empower each other in our journeys!

Transcript

Laura H intro
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Speaker: [00:00:00] Welcome back to kind of a big deal, the show where we get real about what it means to lead, build, and live with purpose. Today I am joined by Laura Harmon, an HR disruptor, culture architect, and all around awesome human who's been shaping the people side of organizations for more than 25 years. She's not only the chief people officer at one workplace, but also a design thinker, employee wellness advocate, and one of those leaders who brings both clarity and humanity into every room she's in.

We explore what it really takes to thrive in a career that's constantly evolving. The importance of curiosity and courage and why learning to pause, like really pause can be a radical act of leadership. Let's dive in.

Speaker 3: Hi Laura. Hi Kristen. So good to see you. Likewise. Happy We were just saying. Sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. No, I was gonna say happy days. I love seeing you. I love seeing you too. [00:01:00] Um, we were just catching up for a moment and realized it had been a minute since we actually got to like, chat about our lives.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. Um, we do work, some work together and so we get to talk about that stuff, but not so much on the catching up on the personal side. Um, well thank you so much for sitting down for a chat. Um. When I first started this little series I mentioned that I'll get to, you know, have conversations with all kinds of incredible women that I respect and admire, and that's everyone from folks that are, you know, launching their own companies or have, you know, are running companies to.

Speaker 4: The corporate baddies of the world and you're one of my corporate baddies of the world. I received that. Good, good, good, good, good. Yes. Because as we're, you know, I know we've talked about this, but part of the reason why I titled the series kind of a big deal is we do tend to brush off our compliments.

Mm-hmm. And our impact. So receive it and own it. Mm-hmm. That's the best thing we can do for ourselves, I think. Um. [00:02:00] So I usually start by doing a quick little introduction before you introduce yourself just on um, how we know each other. Mm-hmm. So Laura and I have been part of an awesome organization on the board of the Youth Leadership Institute, um, which I would love for folks to check out if they have Not yet, especially if you're based here, California.

Um, but we've been on the board together for like four or five years at this point. Yeah. Like, which is crazy. I think it's. Four, four and a half years. Yeah. Yeah, because I started in 2020, right in the middle of, you know, the beginning of the pandemic. Mm-hmm. Um. And we've been co-chairs for the last year and a half-ish or so.

And so I've had the, like, absolute honor of getting to partner with her. Um, she's one of those like crazy smart, crazy kind like, but brings this like beautiful calming energy into every room that she's in, like. It makes me take my like wildest, like my, like traumatic energy down. Emily would totally disagree with you.

Speaker 3: I am a chaos goblin, but I take it, I take it. [00:03:00] No, no, no. There's no way that I've known you for this long and that could be true. I refuse to believe it. Um. At least in a professional setting, the Yeah. What I get to experience is, you know, it's interesting on a board for, for those that have had this experience, you're dealing with all kinds of incredible talent and intellect and personalities and uh, opinions and all of it is so beautiful and wonderful.

Speaker 4: Especially when you're in a space where the work is in the impact space and as it relates to youth. So there's a lot of conversations that we're having and Laura just always has a way of like bringing everybody back onto the same kind of level playing field, and that's something I have always appreciated and admired about you.

Her LinkedIn title, which I just recently looked up for the first time in a hot minute, this is who she is in general, HR disruptor. Supermom, employee wellness advocate, design [00:04:00] thinker, and culture architect. And I think that might be one of my favorite LinkedIn titles that I've ever seen. Oh, thank you. You know, I, I took a, well, uh, went to a seminar, this was like years ago when LinkedIn was still like in early stages, and everyone puts their title, their actual title, and it'll say like, I don't know.

Speaker 3: Clerical associate three, nobody knows what that is. Yeah. And so they told us, you should pick, you should talk about like what are the things that bring you the most joy or define who you are. And so that's where we landed. I love that. I love that because you know, so much of the conversation recently is around.

Speaker 4: Personal branding and mm-hmm. How you wanna be known in the world. And we are so much more than our title and we bring so much more to the table than just that. And so I think being able to, to showcase all these different facets of who we are, um mm-hmm. In this, but it, but yours is done in a way that's actually like understandable.

Sometimes I get a [00:05:00] little crazy currently chief people officer at one workplace. Mm-hmm. Um. And I'd love to just actually start there, like, you've landed in this, you know, C-Suite role in corporate world. Have you always been in like the HR people-centered spaces or has your journey led you to this moment?

Kind of maybe just brief overview of where you're at today. Sure. Um, so. Like most HR people from days gone by, I thought I was gonna do a stop in hr 'cause I didn't know what it was. I had tried a couple of things. I did marketing, I did it. I was a caterer, I was a bartender. I did event planning. I did a whole bunch of things.

Speaker 3: Didn't quite know what I wanted to be because I wanted to be an orthodontist. What? And my junior. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that. I love teeth. I love teeth. Um, don't love breath, but I love teeth. [00:06:00] Um, and then, but I have always been a creative type. Um, I took interior design classes after I graduated college while I was trying to figure some stuff out, and I realized that could actually be a career.

Nothing really stuck in a way that I was like, this is the thing. Um, and I felt like I had to figure it out. So I did some temping and I landed at a company in their IT department, and I was, I've always been a very curious person asking tons of questions. Somebody tapped me on the shoulder and said, I think you might really wanna work in hr.

And I'm like, what do they do? Yeah. And so I got to have lunch with different people from the HR team. I got to meet folks and I was like, oh, that's kind of neat. You like hire people and you give them things that they need to do their job and maybe you might fire some people along the way. Um, and so that started my HR career.

I moved from IT to HR and what I thought was gonna be a short stint last has [00:07:00] lasted over 25 years. Wow. And I've sat in almost every seat within hr, which. Looking back, I'm like, where did I find the time? Because I am, I still feel very much like the young version of me. I don't know if kids do that to you or not.

Like they just make you feel young all the time, or, well, until you start to, yeah, I'm trying to, and then they're like, okay, old lady. Um, but like, I just feel like I'm always learning. I'm always trying to figure it out. And one day I ha I didn't know what I wanted to be. But one day, um, one of my leaders bought us all a book called, I think it was called Designing Your Life.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. And so I went home over the holiday break and read it and started to do some soul searching and like asking myself some really tough questions about where I saw myself in the future. And when I came back, I met with, uh, the head of my department and I said, I think I wanna be the head of HR for like a smaller, like, medium sized company.

Speaker 3: And he didn't bat an eyelash. And that was the first time. I had a [00:08:00] really big audacious goal that no one laughed at, and I was like, oh, wait, maybe, maybe I'm onto something. And he gave me lots of guidance and support and mentorship and kind of helped me just make decisions that would align me on this path.

And fast forward, that was 10 years ago. Wow. Here I am. Wow. That's amazing. That's incredible. Are you, I'm so curious, after being in this space for mm-hmm. For as many years as you have, I'm sure you've seen the space change and shift and morph over the years. Um, in some ways good. In some ways. I don't know.

Speaker 4: Yeah. So, curious kind of what trends you've seen over the years. Yeah. When I started, I mean, clearly over 25 years ago. Things were on paper. Mm-hmm. Um, we were very transactional in a, as a function. And over the years I've watched in different industries and different types of companies where they've become more strategic, more technology forward, [00:09:00] more analytical, more data centered.

Speaker 3: And so it's kind of like it. As I look back and I think about colleagues that kind of got left behind, it's because they didn't keep up with the next trends. Like if you don't know how to use AI in hr, which feels counterintuitive because we are very human centered, but you can really use this in a powerful way.

Um. To help kind of lessen some of the administrative burden on yourself so that you can get to know people, center them in the work that you're doing, spend time listening and learning and understanding. And that, for me, as an HR practitioner has never changed. I've always, and maybe it's the, the companies I came up through, and maybe it's the people that I was surrounded with, always inclusive, always listening, always thinking about what's a new way or a different way to do this.

Um. What's gonna make less hassle for the employee? What's their experience gonna be like? And I've been really fortunate to be able to weave that through my [00:10:00] career. Um, but I think had I not embraced technology, kept my personal core values front and center, and only taken opportunities that aligned.

Mm-hmm. I don't think I would be saying the same thing right now. That's super interesting. I feel like you just gave, I was gonna ask a question around. You know, if there's someone that's maybe a little bit earlier on in their career mm-hmm. And is considering what it might mean to kind of go down this path and are interested in people, HR spaces, what advice you might give in how they should be entering those experiences or opportunities.

Speaker 4: And I heard you say embracing technology, which I think in, in many ways, we would all probably do mm-hmm. Yeah. Do well in this moment to be considering, but. With the lens of your core values being front and center, because I think sometimes we can say embrace technology, but these two things actually go hand in hand.

Mm-hmm. Which is how are you using these things? Yeah. In ways that are making people's lives better, not just driving more [00:11:00] efficiency to the point where people then are taking on more and more. Mm-hmm. Work, right. Just for the sake of efficiency. So I think those two things together, that's an interesting parallel.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I would also add. Staying curious. Mm-hmm. I, I, I know that there, there's a, what is the saying? There's no such thing as a dumb question. Uh, yeah. Working in hr, I firmly believe there are dumb questions, so I'll, I'll start there. However, I think when you're trying to learn and grow yourself, especially earlier in my career, one of the things that really propelled me forward was I stopped and had, I mean, I'm an introvert.

I am like, probably if there were a spectrum of introvert and it was like. Getting close to extrovert. I am the far other end really don't I? I like being around people. Makes me nervous. Um, and the thought of speaking in front of people makes me, uh, paralyzed with fear. Mm-hmm. But something about that one-on-one interaction.

Small groups where I. [00:12:00] Ask lots of questions. I was always like, well, how do you do that? Can I shadow you? Can I have lunch with you and ask you a couple of questions? Those interactions earlier in my career really helped me to figure out, well, what's the next move that makes sense where I can grow and learn more?

Mm-hmm. Um, and it also helped me to move into spaces that I was very uncomfortable with. Most HR people don't like numbers, which is why we end up in hr. But I can do analytic work. I can, you know, create tables and use data to inform decisions. And those skills have been instrumental in me as I've grown through my career.

But had I shied away for it because it was something that was uncomfortable for me, I don't know if I would be in the same, maybe I would be in the same position. I don't know if I would. Be as effective without that, those skills. But I would also add in like that curiosity and leaning into the uncomfortable.

Yeah. It, the worst that happens is you are like, oh, this isn't for me. Yeah. And you, you move on. [00:13:00] Um, which I know is, I'm speaking from a, a, a place of privilege to be able to say, well, if it doesn't work, you move on. But as you gain experience. You can start writing your own ticket, you can start calling your own shots.

And that's part of the beauty of being in a role as you kind of grow through the ranks, not just in hr, but just in your career. When you have the, what, what do they say? The person with the money makes the decisions. Um, I say that to my son all the time. Yeah. When he was little. Like, whoever, whoever has the money, I'm the one with the purse.

Yeah. And so, um, you know, it's like you hold the keys, you have the knowledge, you have the expertise, you have the skills that are needed. You get to. Have some say in how you use them. Where you use them. Yeah. And that's really powerful in and of itself, especially as a woman. Yes. Yes. It's insane. Yeah. Yes.

Speaker 4: The curiosity piece, I'm cu, I'm really curious about the moment that we're in. Mm-hmm. I just heard from a friend of mine who's very deep in the AI space, who's, you know, working with some of these huge corporations and the head of [00:14:00] HR for a massive organization was like. You're no longer gonna be hired for the questions you can answer, but for the questions you can ask, because it's gonna be about extracting information more so than it is about, you know, giving information.

'cause the information is going to now be there, people will have access, but you need to have a certain level of expertise to know how to ask. Mm-hmm. The right question to pull out the answer you're seeking. And I thought. How beautiful is that for those of us that just love to ask a question all the time.

Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah. Like, great. But my fear in that is we are not necessarily teaching our kids to be critical thinkers any longer. Mm-hmm. And it's not really taught in schools to think about what we're, we're, we're teaching people like, don't ask the question, be quiet, just listen, you know, be, obey, what have you.

Speaker 4: Yeah. But we need to be cultivating that curiosity in a way that. Allows for people to know that not only is it okay, it's actually now going to [00:15:00] be expected. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I took a seminar, well workshop, um, at one of the organizations I used to work at and we did a whole deep dive into design thinking. But from the HR perspective, 'cause you typically see design thinking like in the IT space, user experience, um, as they're building systems and how will it be received and how will it be used.

Speaker 3: And so when you flip that, you think about the. The person, it's could be something as simple as, I'm just going like, I don't know, like late nineties, early two thousands, like everybody was wearing the bracelets. Like for everything. It was like the live strong bracelets and the you, all of this stuff. I always say, pretend you have a bracelet on that says, what if it were me?

And so in the HR space, I always direct people or try to guide them down the path of. Okay, you wanna introduce something new? Well, what if it were me? Would I want that for myself or not? Because that ultimately you are an employee before you're an HR person. Yeah. And so for me, you know, do I want, um, [00:16:00] you know, a different type of benefit?

Do I want a certain type of learning path? Do I want some type of career trajectory? Like, are those the things that would be beneficial to me as an employee? Yes. Well, then why it becomes a no brainer. But I think sometimes we overcomplicate by being like textbooky and trying to, you know, model after another company that we see as like the standard or whatever.

And it's kind of like it, even if you're not a naturally curious person, if you start with what if it were me? What are the questions that you would be asking for yourself? Yeah. And, and use that as your starting point to move forward. Wow. I love that. I've never heard that. And I think, oh. That's just such a really, I mean, it's, it is interesting because it is about self, but it's also then about other, right?

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. It you're starting with what, what might I desire or how would I enter into this question? Mm-hmm. But ultimately it's in service of others. 'cause you're then thinking [00:17:00] about how that will affect those around you or that those that you employ, which. Um, that's a beautiful frame. I think that that's a really, to your point, if you're not naturally that way, to, to have a place to start from is really helpful for people.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how many times have you been watching something or watching someone speak and you have a question and you're like, I'm not gonna ask that and think it's too elementary, or, I think it's, it's a silly question and somebody else stands up and asks the question very slowly and you're like, oh my gosh.

It's those moments. It's the same thing, only instead of. Asking on your own behalf. You're asking on behalf of others because someone else inevitably wants the same thing or needs the same thing that you do. Yeah. So if you think about, what if it were me? But you frame it as well, this could work for other people, I think it makes it easier.

To not feel like you're being selfish in the process. Mm-hmm. That's so interesting. Yes. I, I've definitely early career had those experiences mm-hmm. Where I'm like, too nervous to ask the question. Yeah. [00:18:00] Or, you know, it's a crowd or, you know, that sounds ridiculous. Mm-hmm. Or I should know that already the, the amount of times we tell ourselves I should know that already, even though we have nothing to do with that industry or that person's story.

Speaker 4: Like, why? Why should I know that thing? You know, I have over the years become totally shameless. You've heard this, like when we're in conversations sometimes even as board co-chairs, I'm like, I have no idea what that means. Like, but, but I appreciate your honesty because sometimes when you speak up and you're like, I feel like I should know this, but I have no idea what that means.

Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my gosh, I thought it was just me. And so like even at this advanced age, I'm still afraid sometimes to say something. 'cause I'm like, I feel like I should know what that is. Because, because I have experience, because I have, you know, years under my belt because whatever. Yeah. And nine times outta 10, there's someone else on the state call.

Totally. That's like, I don't know either, but they're braver than I am and they're gonna say something. Well, I wonder if it's not so much about [00:19:00] bravery so much as it is that as we start to recognize, I think. M maybe this is not a gendered thing, but I am curious as women, right? I, in, in these conversations I've been having, so many people have said the expectation as a woman in the workplace is to be exceptional.

Speaker 4: Like, you don't get to just skate by and like claim, you know, whatever. You have to be great. Mm-hmm. Not just, okay. And so there's this pressure, almost internal pressure of like, well, I can't show my. I can't show my cards because that will make it look like, I don't know all the things that you think I already know.

Mm-hmm. Right? I, I, oh yeah. I don't wanna speak. Number of times that I've been on a call and I've been just taking notes and like highlighting like, what does this word mean? What does this acronym mean? And then afterwards I'll casually like be talking to a colleague and be like, oh, how is your weekend?

Speaker 3: Do you know what such and such means? Like, because I don't wanna, I don't wanna call myself out in front of everyone, [00:20:00] but at the same time, and the funny thing is. Usually that person will turn to me and say, I didn't know what that meant either. And I'm like, oh, why didn't you say something? And they're like, well, I didn't want anyone to know that.

I didn't know what it meant. And I'm like, well, can you do that next time? Because I'll be the person always asking.

Speaker 4: Are you, I'm curious, as you were talking about kind of way back to like your interest in like creative spaces and design. Do you see that way of thinking still playing out in your. Role that you have today, or the roles that you've taken? Like maybe I, I, I'm leading you here a little bit. Mm-hmm. Because I think I, my husband and I talk about this a lot.

I was a fine art major, and the places that I've ended up are so far removed, like on paper from, you know mm-hmm. Painting in a studio or whatever. But his, his stance has always been like, creativity doesn't have to look a certain way. Yeah. It doesn't have to be that you are. Drawing [00:21:00] or mm-hmm. Creating in a way that we think of as it relates to creativity.

Yeah. It can come out in so many different ways. I'm wondering what that might look like for you. Mm-hmm. I mean. Earlier in my career, creativity looked like using different colors on the cells on an Excel sheet. I was like, look, they didn't tell us we had to use, you know, a certain color. So I'd be like, I'm gonna make this green and I'm gonna make this purple.

Speaker 3: Like, that was like the thing. And then, um, I had one of my first mentors who really was the one that got me into HR and saw, he saw something in me that I didn't even know existed. And he. Had us present, we had to lead team meetings. And I was kind of low person on the totem pole. Like I was the admin for the department and I had to lead team meetings just like everyone else.

And once we started using PowerPoint and things like that, I was like, okay, well I'm gonna make slide decks because I need to stay on task. Um, as you probably know, in talking to me, I am. [00:22:00] All over the place sometimes, and hence the chaos goblin. And so having a conversation with me is like watching pinball sometimes.

And if you're not paying attention, I've changed the topic three times and I'll come back to the original one. Mm-hmm. So learning how to stay on task and how to like lead meetings and use different tools has helped me to, one, stay on task, but also foster my creativity. I, on my team today. We take turns leading our team meetings every other week, and some people reluctantly went into it, but now we've got people using Canva and PowerPoint and people that are like doing all kinds of really creative things that they don't get to do in their daily life.

I mean, our payroll person is creating slides that move and have animation. And payroll is like, you know, carry the one and, yeah. How many PTL? Like it's very kind of, you know. Repetitive in. Yeah. By nature. And so [00:23:00] I feel like the things that I needed, I'm trying to create the space for other people that might need the same thing.

Mm-hmm. And there's a subset of people that I've worked with that do need that, and it's been amazing, one to watch them, but also I get to be creative through that process because I'm like, I'm going to do it first. So you can see like one, the bar is not that high, but also like. Creativity doesn't have to look like, um, a master of case.

Yeah. Like I'm not doing like a TED talk with like the, all of the video footage and stuff behind me. I'm literally just making things move across a slide. And for some people they're like, I didn't even know you can do that. Yeah. Yes. Yes. I, the amount of times I've gotten caught up in a document because of the font is off.

Yes. Well, I mean, I cannot read this like. It's a big deal. Yes. I literally, like if I draft something, proposal, whatever, I cannot read my writing or what I've [00:24:00] drafted until I've put it into the right. Like it has to just look way, otherwise forget it. Yeah. That's a big, that's a really big deal. Like even, I mean even we were talking before we started about like.

Getting dressed. Dressed, even if you're on a zoom and like, you know, yeah. I put on a red lip for you today. Um, like that's, that's, that's creative for me. Like anytime I hear in the like, uniform, and this is not to knock it, 'cause I, I know this works for some people, but like the capsule thing, oh. You know, like the wardrobe where you have like four things and like, you know, then you don't have to, it takes one decision out of your day essentially.

Speaker 4: Mm. Theory behind it, I suppose I am like, absolutely not. If that is the one thing that I get to do during my day, it makes me feel some type of way. Forget it. Yeah. Like, well, so many of the other decisions impact other people's lives. Yeah. Ooh. You know, like, like your children, your dog, your significant other, your coworkers, your clients, like your neighbors.

Speaker 3: So this is like, [00:25:00] listen, if I wanna wear, you know, overalls or if I wanna wear, you know, hot pink, like whatever that thing is that brings me joy or, or if I wanna wear the all black uniform, like whatever that is. Um, I was just in a networking. Uh, it's like an online community that someone invited me to go to an event last week and they asked one of the best, they put people into rooms to kind of get in conversation with each other, get to know each other, and the prompt, first of all, Laura is the queen of the icebreaker prompt, so I'm actually bringing her game to her right now.

Speaker 4: Um, the, the question was. What is something from your life that has shaped who you are today that might not always make it into your bio? And I was like, Ooh, that is such a, a good one. Great question. So, um, does that bring anything for you? Yeah, I think one, I need to think about it 'cause I'll always have a better answer.

Speaker 3: The second, third iteration. So you're [00:26:00] gonna get my rough draft right now. That's not, we need view one to say by that. Yeah. Gimme view one. I think there, you know, immediately, a few things in my life come. Front and center, but I think the number one immediately, and it could be 'cause I'm in the throes of becoming an empty nester, is watching my son grow up.

Because I remember distinctly mostly being his age and what my experience was like, and I'm watching, I feel like I'm reliving life. Through him, but through a different lens. Like I'm still watching him and I'm not trying to live vicariously through him. Yeah. But I'm like, I'm getting to relive my childhood and do the things that I always wish that I could have done.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. But because he wants to do them. Mm-hmm. And so I think that has really created moments and opportunities for me like. He and I do a [00:27:00] mothers son trip every year, just the two of us. We go away, he gets to pick the location and when he was, I think it was like, I don't know, somewhere in elementary school he decided he wanted to go to San Diego.

Speaker 3: So we, it was our, his first trip to California and we came and at the end of the trip, before we went to the airport, we were standing on the beach and we were watching the sunset. And he turned to me and he is like, mommy, I wanna live here. And I was like, you know what? Me too. So, I mean, it took us a while, but fast forward years later, I'm like, Hey, I have this opportunity to move to California.

What do you think? And he was like, no hesitation. Like let's go. Even batting an eyelash, like, okay, how do we convince dad because my husband is change averse. And so like we formed a partnership. So I feel like. Us having those moments, us being me, like growing up with him essentially. Wow. Has helped me in a lot of ways, guide my career, my friendships, the way I [00:28:00] move in the world, because I wanna make it a better place for him and his peers.

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. And. That's a heavy burden, but I also feel like we owe it to them in a lot of ways. 'cause I mean, look around. Yeah, it's, we're not in a good, great place no matter where you stand on any type of issue. Like it's just not a great place right now. Yeah. And so how do I, even if it's behind closed doors, create spaces.

Speaker 3: For not just my child, but other people where they feel seen, they feel heard, they feel comfortable, they feel, you know, safe. Um, yeah. And so I think having him has created this ripple effect for other, that other people get to benefit from. Oh my God. That's so cool. That was a really long answer. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 4: No, no, no. That was beautiful. I feel like I'm sitting here like thinking of my own head. You'll tell the third time I come up with an answer, it's gonna be amazing. No, that was, that was amazing. Oh, thank you. How beautiful. Like what a beautiful [00:29:00] tribute to what it means to be a working mom. I mean, I think, you know so many women that are.

Navigating caretaking in whatever form that might be. Mm-hmm. Whether it's for children or aging parents or whatever. All of those things do influence how we show up and how we think about our priorities and how we think about the impact we're having. Because to your point, when we're in these moments where the world feels just absolute, like.

Dumpster fire. Mm-hmm. And you don't feel like you have control over much, and you go and you try and use your voice in these spaces where you feel like you're being as loud as you can and it's still not doing anything and not moving the needle, then all we can do is focus on these small areas that we do have at least.

Mm-hmm. Certainly not control over. I know that now. Mm-hmm. As a mom of a nine, six old, yeah. Forget it. There's no control. I'm not, I have no disillusionment there, but. At least to try and make a mark or have an impact. Mm-hmm. Or to create, to your [00:30:00] point, these spaces where these kids can feel safe and seen.

Yeah. And find themselves along the way. I think that's, that's an incredible way to think about how, like, that is not gonna make it into your bio and it should. No, it's and it should, frankly. Yeah. Thankfully we didn't have like. All of the bells and whistles that, I mean, they're getting, they're making mistakes in front of people I know, like in a grand way through their social media accounts and all of that stuff.

Speaker 3: We got to make mistakes and the only person who remembers it is usually us. 'cause the people that were there when we made the mistake or either made the same mistakes Yes. Or they're like, I forgot about that. That was so long ago and there's no proof that it happened. So, oh gosh. I know. You know, having, having them have a space where they can do that and understand that.

The more mistakes you make, the better, like the better you become in the long run because you learn from all of that. Yeah. I've made so many mistakes in my career and I've never been [00:31:00] fired for them. I've always learned from them and I think. Being able to say like, oh, I should, I probably should have done that a different way, or I should have listened to this, or I should have asked this question.

Creates a better opportunity for me every single time, even if the problem looks different. Totally. Yes. Mm-hmm. I think it's coming back to your, I think tenets of like staying curious. Your core values, like this is also one of those things, which is mm-hmm. You do have to find some comfort or. Maybe, I'm not sure what the word is, but some ability to be at least, okay.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. In recognizing that life is one big, giant experiment for the most part. Yep. And you're just trying your best every day. Mm-hmm. And we're not gonna do it. Perfect. And so many of us, I think, especially as women, tend to be Yeah. Paralyzed by perfectionism and wanting to do it. Mm-hmm. Exactly the right way before we're out there trying the thing, but.

You can't learn that way. Yeah, no. You have to get others through it. I like to say I'm [00:32:00] a, I'm a recovering perfectionist. Me perfectionist. Me too recovering. Like in my, in my early career, I thought I had to do it perfect. I know. But no one ever told me what perfect was. Yes. And it wasn't until I was doing HR for like a solid six or seven years that someone was like, just get it done.

Speaker 3: I'm like, what? And they're like, sometimes you take too long to do things 'cause you're trying to figure out what is the most. Perfect way to do it, but you are doing something for other people. It's never gonna be perfect. And once you realize that and you actually sit with it, you are like, oh, you know what I, it's okay for it to just be done.

I could iterate it later. Yeah. But the longer I take to actually launch the thing, that's where people are gonna complain 'cause it took me too long. But if I can just launch something that's good, that helps fill the need. I can make it better. I'm never gonna make it perfect, but I can just make it better.

Yeah. Or someone else can come behind me and make it better, but I, the goal is [00:33:00] never to do something perfect. Yeah. And once I learned that, I was like, oh wow, I could do so much more. Oh my God. And that's, yes. It's like, yes. The unburdening of like, no, I don't need to read that email for the. 45th time before I sent it.

Speaker 4: Yes. Yeah. It's okay. It's like mostly getting my point across and I'm not being offensive, like, okay, cool. Yeah, exactly. Ugh. It is such a, like a difficult, you know, I mean there's so much research around specifically what it means, right? As women that are entering into these mm-hmm. Higher and more intense roles around.

Feeling the need to show up in these perfect ways. Yeah. But, um, it, it doesn't do us any favors because our perfect is somebody else's, you know, like mm-hmm. 150%, you know? Yeah, yeah. There's, there's overachievers everywhere. And so yeah. I'm like, I can't compete with other people. I'm a 12 one. I was in the band.

Speaker 3: I'm not a competitive kid. I, I was, I compete with [00:34:00] myself. You were. And I liked the trash talk. I was in the band In a band. Or band I was in, well, when I was in the band. Okay. Like I wasn't an athlete growing up. So I don't have like a competitive spirit the way a lot of people have this natural ability to just outperform other people.

Yeah. I want, like being a band kid, I wanted everyone to get to the same place at the same time. 'cause that meant we all looked good. Hmm. And I feel, I feel like that piece, I never understood how that was helpful until I kind of. Across the threshold of managing people. And then I was like, oh, if we all move forward together, we're all moving forward.

But if, like I, I was in like a really competitive marching band, and so if somebody fell. We just kept marching. We were the Beyonce of marching bands. We were like, listen, sorry you fell, but we are going to just keep going. The show must go on. And so the difference is I get to, as a leader, say, hold on. The show can't go on because we can't let someone fall.

We have to [00:35:00] go back and pick up that person. And I think, I think being able to have that control. Has really helped, not just me, but the teams that I've been on be more successful because we are, no one says like, oh, Laura did something wrong. They say HR did something wrong. Yes. And so in this case, I am a reflection of the person who sits next to me, whether I want to be or not.

Speaker 5: Yes. And so I, well, I don't ask everyone to be best friends, but I ask that we all. Move forward together, keep each other informed, um, ask for help, share what we know. Like all of those things are so valuable and sometimes. Folks tend to gatekeep and that's not just an HR thing. They tend to gatekeep 'cause they think that's my security.

Speaker 3: That's the thing that's gonna set me apart. When in actuality, it's the thing that makes you indispensable. That's true because if I know what you know and we have the open dialogue, I can now teach you something. Maybe you don't. Vice versa, and now you become that much more valuable. Oh my gosh. First, I think we just heard your V [00:36:00] two of something from your Maybe.

Yes. How much longer do we have? I might get to version three. Before we, before we get off. How the marching band informed the way I thinking about leaving a team. Like that's, who knew that's Yes. 'cause all of our experiences do stack up to the way you show up today. Right? Yeah. So I love it. Well, actually the question is, how much time do you have?

Speaker 4: Do you need to end right at our top of the hour? Because I, I, I'm yours. I, I could be on here all day. Oh, me too. Okay, good. I love chatting with you. So I do have two specific questions I wanna make sure we get to. Um, one is, you were mentioning what it means to be witnessing your son grow up and now, you know, heading off to college.

Mm-hmm. This moment that you find yourself in, where you were also navigating some stuff in life that forced you to take a little bit of a pause. Mm-hmm. Um. And I'm curious about your experience there because in fact, one of [00:37:00] the other women that I was mentioning earlier, she's going to create an entire series of offerings and, you know, speaking series and storytelling around what she calls the power of the pause because of a few life events that forced her mm-hmm.

To stop really like dead in her tracks because. She couldn't continue on. Um, and what taking that quiet space did for her as she was reflecting on her life and what she wanted and how she wanted to move and where she wanted to go. And one of the reflections you gave to me in your pause is. That it was really hard.

You don't know how to stop. Mm-hmm. And so like, it almost this feeling of guilt around like, no, it's okay to turn on Netflix when I'm mm-hmm. Healing and I'm allowing my body to rest. Like mm-hmm. And I know for a absolute certain fact that many, many, many women are, are the same. We are wired the same way, way.

And so curious if you can unpack that. Mm-hmm. Just a little bit. Yeah. I think for [00:38:00] me, taking a pause creates space for me to be more intentional. And because it takes me so long to just stop. And even stop is a really funny thing because I don't think I ever stop. I just stop that one thing and I replace it with something else.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And so really taking time to reflect and to think about like. Is what I'm doing of value? Am I really making the impact that I thought I was gonna make? Um, I mean, in our work life we set goals. Every year I'm gonna accomplish these four or five things, or we are gonna accomplish these four or five things as a team and here's how we'll know that we've been successful.

I think it's important to do that in your personal life. Mm-hmm. And not goals around, I'm gonna get this job, I'm gonna make this money. What are the things that bring me the most joy? What are the things that fill my cup? What are the things that align with my values? So like my service with [00:39:00] YLI is largely important to who I am at my core.

Mm-hmm. And so it gives me the space outside of my professional career to foster what gives me energy and to keep me fueled every day.

As I, you know, look in a, you know, look through a new lens at work, it's kind of like, huh, why are we doing that? Yeah. Why, who, who is that really for? And why does it have to be so complicated? Mm-hmm. And do we have to do it differently? Like, it just, you just start thinking differently about how you spend your time.

Yeah. And. Where you spend your energy. Um, what is it that I wanna focus on and how can I, how can I move my energy in that space? And if that space, and this is not me saying this about me, this is just me. I don't know. I guess giving general life advice, if the things you do on a daily basis at work don't align with your attention and your energy, then you're in the wrong [00:40:00] place and you should actively be thinking about, well, what does that place look like?

Where those things can happen. Yeah. And I know that, again, that's very easy to say. Um. But I'm like, I'm living proof that there have been times in my career where I have been in places where it didn't, it didn't align anymore or it just, we were going in a direction that maybe I was like, uh, I don't think I'm gonna learn from this.

Yeah. And maybe looking back, maybe I would have, maybe I, who knows? But I was like, okay, it's my time. Um, and so as I, you know, take a pause and I think about like, well, what are those things that will fill my cup? What are those things that I can continue to create, impart on others, et cetera, that will keep me energized?

And how do I incorporate that more into my day versus having like my work life and then my home life? How do we incorporate more of that so that. We can take a [00:41:00] break and a pause whether we're in an office, in the house, at a work share space, whatever that looks like, and still be full. It's been a lot of years in the making, but learning how to, just to sit still and say, you know what?

I'm just gonna sit and listen to the birds today. I'm gonna, I'm gonna watch, I've watched the trees outside of my window bloom over the past few months. Mm-hmm. Like intentionally. So it's like. It's like, wow, look at nature, look at life happening around us. And when you're running you miss it. I know, I know, I know.

Speaker 5: I know. I sounds, I sound like, I sound like I've really acclimated to California. I love it at this point. I love it. I love it. I was gonna say how yes, you have really don't hug a tree, everybody. It'll change your life. It's so real though, because I think the more we can bring those routines or rituals or habits.

Speaker 4: Whatever you wanna call them, even if they're small little things. Mm-hmm. Into our lives, like it allows for a different. [00:42:00] To me, I feel like I can honestly physically feel like I'm dropped into a more grounded talk about sounding like California, oh my gosh, let's get into it, Kristen. I'll burn some. We could really, really go there.

That's a whole other conversation. I can physically feel it like when I am mm-hmm. More centered and grounded in myself. I show off more authentically. Yeah. As who I am or I'm not as. I can get that like frenetic energy when I'm like, not just taking a breath, you know? And so I think to allow ourselves that and to know that we don't have to feel guilt or shame for not being in it like all the time, that has to be okay.

Mm-hmm. Um, but that's really, really hard to do. I think for a lot of women it's, oh yeah, a hundred percent. Because back to your earlier point, we feel like we have to be on and we have to be the best and we have to show up. You know, magnificent all the [00:43:00] time. So taking a pause, taking a break, or even just saying like, I'm, I'm gonna go walk away from this for a minute.

Speaker 3: Yeah. It feels wrong in a lot of ways. Yes. We have to give ourselves permission to, I don't know, unlearn all of that toxic corporate. If you're not working and hustling 24 7, like rest is not a reward. It's just our human right to, yeah. Like it's, it's what we should be doing in these moments. So, yeah. Took me a long time.

It's simple. Mm-hmm. Um, okay. The last question I always ask everyone, and you can, you can sit with it for a minute if you want. We can get V one or we could.

Speaker 4: So much of the work I've been focused on recently is how do you bridge the kind of like. Yes, business strategy and what you want from your career and what you're building, but also with who you are as a human and as you show up in your professional development and leadership development. Mm-hmm. And all of that to me is leading [00:44:00] to like, what is the legacy you want to leave?

Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. And what is the legacy you're building toward? Because we are building it today. It's not about where are we gonna be in 20 or 30 years from now, but. When I think about that, I think building a legacy means something very different to mm-hmm Everyone. And I've gotten really interesting, unique answers to like, what does building a legacy mean to you?

Speaker 3: Yeah. It's so funny that you asked this question because in my pause I've been thinking a lot about legacy and what does that mean? But not in the grand sense, not like, you know, am I gonna be written about in somebody's HR manual? 'cause Yeah. But that would cool. Probably not. That would be, it would be like, yeah.

I don't know under what category other than like table shaker, but I feel like I've been thinking a lot about the environments that I'm in, especially at work. And when I look at the makeup of my current team, we are largely female. We are largely [00:45:00] underrepresented ethnic minorities. We are largely people who.

Come from different disadvantaged backgrounds. And so I often think about what is the way that I could show up, continue to show up, be authentically me, um, and create space around me where I'm not taking up the room, I'm creating space in the room so that those other people, even if they're just in the room to watch, can see someone that they identify with to say, I can be that and.

It's possible to just be yourself slang, a couple of cuss words and just, you know, leading as you are, making mistakes in front of people, admitting what you don't know, like all of those things that make me who I am and just say, listen, take it or leave it. This is what you're getting. Yeah. And you know, just being an example for them to show them you can be the thing, [00:46:00] whatever the thing is.

It may not be this. It could be something else, but you could be that and still be true to yourself. You could be that and still be authentic. So when I think of legacy, I think of my dad said when I was little, always leave things better than you found it, including people. Mm-hmm. And so when I think of my legacy, I think of that portion of me like.

In some moments, am I, was that authentically me or was I putting on for someone? Yeah. Um, and so, and who's watching? 'cause I know younger Laura would be in spaces where I would be watching how people showed up. Mm-hmm. And then I would see them outside of that space and say, huh. They're not the same person or not fully understand code switching or not fully understand all of the, the, the nuance and the games that you have to play sometimes.

And for me, I made a conscious decision that I wasn't gonna do that. Mm-hmm. Um, if the space no longer serves me, then that's not the right space for me. Yeah. And so how do I just remain authentic? How do I create space [00:47:00] safe spaces for others? And how do I live by example and not tell someone you need to do this, but then I show up.

Totally different in those spaces, which is some of what I got early in my career. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think when I think legacy, that's what I think of today. I don't know, in a couple of days I might think of something else. No, no. I love, I love it. All we can do is work within the day that we have. And so I think that that is, that's, it's so perfect and it feels so aligned to how I know.

Speaker 4: How you show up in the world. Last thing is you, you know, you had said earlier, it's easier said than done that if you find yourself in a space that doesn't serve you to move on, but I think. You're not suggesting that people just like say, forget it, I'm outta here. No, no. Sometimes there's a balance.

Speaker 3: That's where you find, like, I know when I've been in spaces in jobs where I'm like, Ugh, this doesn't feel like a good fit anymore. Sometimes if, if I know I can't change, I'm not in a position to change my situation. I look for things outside volunteer work. Yes, [00:48:00] yes. Um, you know, I was class mom for like, as long as they would allow for me to do.

I found other ways to fulfill myself. To offset what I was going through career-wise so that it didn't feel quite so heavy until I was in a position to make a change. I think your, your point is that you're, you are challenging people to be in tune with themselves enough. To know mm-hmm. When something does not feel right.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. And it's okay to know that that then might mean that it's time to seek something else. Mm-hmm. Whether it is something that will feed you in the moment and or something longer term that will be a bigger shift or a bigger jump. Mm-hmm. And also financial literacy. Yeah. You have some fu money in the bank.

Speaker 3: You're you, you move differently. I learned that very earlier in my career. Someone sat me down and said, pay yourself first. Mm-hmm. And to this day, I pay myself first. And so if something doesn't serve me, it puts you, it just changes the way you [00:49:00] move in a situation that's not serving you. Because you can say, you know what?

Maybe I can leave and find something else and take a break. It just gives you a different mindset on what you're willing to put up with. Mm-hmm. Even if you decide to stay, you know, in the back of your mind, like I have that thing that's just waiting in the wings. Yes, yes. Oh my gosh. This is gonna be the second time that I reference Rachel Rogers' book.

Speaker 4: Because of you, we should all be billionaires. It is worth mentioning it again and again and again because I think those of us, mm-hmm. That maybe. Came to that knowledge later in life. Yeah. And what it means to be a woman as it relates to wealth building. Mm-hmm. And all of the things and the mental gymnastics that we have to do to make ourselves, yeah.

Okay with that conversation. She does a beautiful job of breaking it down with both history and humor in a way that I feel like allows for women to think differently about what building wealth means. But yes, that, that's another shout out for her book. There's [00:50:00] also a book called Financial Feminist by Tory Dun.

Speaker 3: I love that she's phenomenal and she, I love her. I love her whole, her whole financial journey started with building some FU money and quitting her job and starting down this path. And so even if it takes you years to get there, it fits the goal, then you will achieve it. And yes, whether you achieve it in one year, five years, 10 years.

Just working towards it gives you peace of mind. Thank you so much for taking time and space to chat with me today. You're just always so wonderful and I appreciate your time always. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for such a lovely conversation and creating a space for me and for other women to have these conversations.

They're so important. Yeah, agreed. Love you the most. See you soon. Bye. Bye.

Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening and spending some of your time with me here. I hope our conversation sparked some new ideas for you. If you enjoyed the episode, please make sure to hit subscribe so you don't [00:51:00] miss what's next. And if you're ready for even more tools and stories, head on over to belden strategies.com.

I share fresh insights, stories, and tools every week. Until next time, keep building, keep evolving. And remember you. Are kind of a big deal.