Kind of a Big Deal

Evolve or Dissolve: The Secret to Building a Successful Business

• Kristin Belden

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What if the secret to 17 years of success is in staying nimble, and widening the table instead of protecting your seat?

Join me as I sit down with Meghan Phillips, founder of Honey and one of the most respected leaders I know. 

Over nearly two decades, Meghan has built a thriving creative business while launching initiatives shaping how our region thinks about food and impact. Our conversation explores what it means to lead with humanity first, build cultures people actually want to be part of, and navigate the tension between ambition and contentment.

You'll Learn:

⭐ Why continuity in storytelling matters (and how it built Honey)

⭐ How to hold ambition and contentment at the same time

⭐ What it takes to build a team that stays for 10+ years

⭐ Why mentoring others became her greatest joy

⭐ The power of "widening the table" instead of protecting your seat

Key Insights:

Human-First Leadership: Creating work cultures where people can show up as their whole selves isn't just good ethics - it's good business.

The Infinity Symbol Strategy: True impact comes from connecting visual design with marketing storytelling - making something beautiful AND telling people how to use it.

Living in the Tension: Ambition and contentment don't have to be opposing forces - both can coexist without constantly swiveling between extremes.

From Self to Others: The shift from thinking about your own career to investing in others' careers is where true fulfillment lives.

Connection as Legacy: Real legacy isn't about big monuments - it's about fostering human connection, breaking bread, and remembering what it means to be human.

Timestamps:

[00:00:00] - Introduction

[00:02:00] - How Kristin and Meghan met over a decade ago

[00:04:00] - Meghan's reputation as a human-first leader

[00:05:00] - Starting Honey while pregnant (17-18 years ago)

[00:06:00] - The missing continuity in storytelling and why Honey started

[00:07:00] - The power of Sacramento's food and beverage community

[00:48:00] - Living in the tension between ambition and contentment

[00:49:00] - Both things can be true: perfection isn't required

[00:50:00] - What younger Meghan would find surprising: loving mentorship

[00:51:00] - Team longevity: 10-11 years with key team members

[00:53:00] - Building a legacy through human connection

Resources and Links:

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review! And if you're interested in more stories and tools for women leaders, sign up for my newsletter at Beldenstrategies.com/newsletter.


Speaker 2: [00:00:00] Hi everyone. Welcome back to kind of a big Deal. Today's guest is someone I've known for over a decade and one of the most respected leaders I know. Megan is the kind of leader whose reputation is remarkably consistent. No matter who you talk to, you hear the same thing. She's human first, deeply principled and committed to building work and cultures that truly serve people.

Over the last 18 years, Megan has built and evolved a successful creative business while also launching other important initiatives, including one that's shaping how the Sacramento region thinks about the future of food and impact. She's a builder, a connector, and someone who consistently chooses to widen the table rather than protect her own seat.

In our chat, we talk about evolution, leadership, ambition, and boundaries, and what it means to build something meaningful that serves as a foundation for the legacy you want to leave behind. I'm so glad you're [00:01:00] here for this one. So let's get going.



Kristin: Hi, Megan. 

Meghan: Hi. How are you? 

Kristin: I'm good. I'm so, so happy to see you, and I'm so happy that we get to have this conversation. So thank you so much for coming to join me. 

Meghan: Yes, I'm joining you from the beautiful town of Fresno, from my hotel room 

Kristin: and I, so I was really hoping that you were at the hotel that I spent many a night in over the years, but unfortunately not at the right hotel.

Meghan: I have sort of been falling in love with the Central Valley. I feel like there's just so much goodness happening here. And of course, I'm such a lover of all things, farms and food, and I mean, there couldn't 

Kristin: be a better place. I love hearing that and I'm sure others will love to hear that because obviously so much of the work and the people that I care about are still in the Central Valley, and I remember I still have a journal entry from like.

Over 10 years ago from when I first started to have [00:02:00] meetings there, and I was like, oh, there's something here. We met also probably over 10 years ago, but for the life of me, I cannot remember how people have asked me that over the years, and I'm like, I don't actually have any idea. There's a million ways this could have happened.

Sacramento is a small, small place. Megan is just one of those women that you meet and you immediately know that you wanna be around her. She has this energy that's super infectious. You just know that she like has a zest for life. And I couldn't think of another way to say that without sounding dorky, but it is true.

You bring a lot of like. Joyful energy into the rooms that you're in. You know those people that you're like, dang, like what? What secret are you sitting on? Like how are you? Like what is happening over there? That is like so exciting. 'cause there must be something. 'cause she is so wonderful to be around.

Not only has she built thriving businesses and projects that are rooted. In the regional community here, but she is hands down one of the most well-respected leaders I've met. I think it's so interesting when [00:03:00] you meet someone and have your own perception of them, and then that continues to be true with every person that you meet that knows.

Her, she has a reputation for being a human first leader, creating a culture that most folks can only dream about, um, and for being the type of person that really wants to make sure everyone gets equal access to the pie, so to speak. She is in a position where she could be taking more for herself, but she's always looking around and making sure that others are lifted up and so.

What a beautiful reputation to have and what a beautiful leader to have in front of us. So thank you again. I know you're always so busy, so to have you here is really just a huge joy for me. 

Meghan: Aw, you're gonna make me cry seriously. Thank you. And you work, sometimes you wake up in the morning and you just, all you wanna do is make sure your path is supporting and kind, and you know that you're gonna hit the pillow with integrity.

What you just shared is really beautiful, so thank you. 

Kristin: Well, it's all true, and that is one of the [00:04:00] truest joys that I have had in these conversations is getting to reflect back to some of the women that I respect and admire the most. Just, you know, how I see them. And so it's a gift for me to get to share that with you.

And I don't even know where to start. I feel like I, I was sharing with Megan before we jumped into the recording. I have so many questions and there are so many different ways that this conversation could go, and so we're just gonna kind of go with it and see where we meander. But let's start with you have built a very successful business over the last.

17 to 18 years. 

Meghan: Is it 17, 18? It's right. It's between because I decided to start my business pregnant. Oh good. Yes. That's a really smart, it's a really smart hormonal idea. So my daughter just turned 17 in October, and so I know how old honey is by her age. 

Kristin: That's incredible. That's incredible. Um, she actually, Megan had a sweet 16.

For her [00:05:00] company. And it was such a blast because again, we got to actually see, you know, so much of what we were just talking about and the way she leads that energy just filled the space for the events. But you've also launched important projects and initiatives that are helping shape our regions. So you have this very incredible ecosystem of work that you have created here.

So. I think just to start breaking it down, let's start with honey and Okay. And the work you do there. Um, yeah, tell us about honey and what is the work that y'all are focused on. 

Meghan: So my background previously was doing in-house marketing for food and beverage. Um, I started in the wine industry and then I moved to coffee as you Do you wanna flank your day with both beverages?

I love it. Um, and one of the things that was really profound to me was that. In each of those industries and being in-house, I had a moment where I realized there was a layer of missing [00:06:00] continuity in storytelling. You know, when I was in-house, I would sort of hire a design team and then I would hire a PR team, and then I would hire a digital team and really.

The most important thing about what hits your table is sort of the story of every aspect of it, and I think I just love food and I love humans so much that I wanted to do something different. When I started Honey, I wanted it to be sort of a complete infinity symbol between visual. Feeling and design, and then also marketing because you can make something really pretty, but if you don't tell people how to use it, it doesn't matter.

And if you make something and tell people how to use it, but it doesn't resonate visually, it's the same problem. Like you humans are connected to the beauty of a product or the loyalty of a story. And that's why Honey started. I had a partner at the time who started with me and she has since left, but we really wanted that sort of marketing and design aspect for food, beverage, and agriculture.

Well, what's really [00:07:00] interesting though is that I didn't understand the power of Sacramento 

Speaker 5: at the 

Meghan: time. 'cause I had come from Sonoma County. It was small town, it was very much around the wine industry. And then I started to feel the beauty of Sacramento. I mean the food around us, the culinary aspects, the just dedication to trying to raise up a really amazing city was pretty awesome.

And so I think that. The reason why I champion Sacramento so much is honey wouldn't be where it is today without Sacramento. Mm-hmm. There's no way. I think that there was a moment in time where like a lot of people in the region really felt the power of the food and beverage community, and it's been awesome.

That's how we grew. That's how we've met and been connected with people and that's truly been my passion for 18 years. And. I think that's what's also interesting is things have changed. Um, COVID [00:08:00] changed, honey. I mean, we, we all left and started to get on Zoom and I can tell you designers and marketers are not meant to be on Zoom eight hours a day.

Mm. We were dying on the vine a little, but also our industry changed. Food and agriculture and restaurants were closed. The wine industry started to really. Get affected. And so then we started to be able to kind of think about our portfolio in a way around impact work and thinking about good design and good messaging in other channels, whether that was government impact or necessity around messaging.

'cause if you really think about it, good design and good marketing should be accessible to all and messages should be connected at all times. So that's honey, it's been a wild 18 years, um, but it's sort of like mm-hmm. Got to a point where I'm starting to get my entrepreneurial feet under me again, and as you mentioned, starting some other new things.

Kristin: Mm-hmm. I love that. I love, it's so interesting and so important. I [00:09:00] think as we have these conversations around entrepreneurship and building businesses and that constant need to be aware and have that ability to evolve, I think can be. It can be tricky, especially if you really care about something that you've built and if you, if you want to see it into the future and into the perpetuity, it does not necessarily always get to stay as it was.

And I think that can be really hard for people. So I'm curious, you know, for you, as you were navigating that moment, could you see it? When it was happening? Or is it more like you were walking through it and you look back and go, oh, oh, we had to, to make those decisions at that time? 

Meghan: It's a great question.

I think I didn't necessarily know at the time. I think every small business owner is just in survival mode, sort of. Totally moments. Yeah. So you're just like, uh, we're gonna, like, we're gonna pivot because I have payroll in two weeks. [00:10:00] 

Speaker 5: Mm. 

Meghan: But then when I look back in time, I'm. Grateful for maybe the blinders I had on because it was just like, what do I do well and what can I do to take the talent of this team and benefit not just consumers, but society?

What can I do with this talent because. For me, being a small business and having, you know, 14 people that have this like desire to help support them and their families and their lives, that we just put your foot in front of the other and be like, you know what? We absolutely are gonna think about tourism now 'cause we can do great design and talk about lifestyle and raise the flag for a great city and make sure that that city feels proud.

And so what we would kind of pivot there. So it was definitely not by design and more just survival to be. Very honest. 

Kristin: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's, that's such a helpful truth to share because I do think sometimes we can convince ourselves that we have to have all the [00:11:00] answers and we have to know exactly like what the blueprint is or what the business plan is.

And it's like strategy. All it is, and I think, and this is coming from somebody who works in strategy, by the way. So I'm shooting myself in the foot here a little bit, but it's really just a hope and a dream, right? It is a. This is what we're putting out into the universe and how we think this is gonna go.

But if you stay too tethered to that, I think is where things can get a little tricky because the world has its own plans and so, you know, you have to be able to navigate within that. So how beautiful, and I, you know, I hear you on the, I, I myself don't have employees, but my, my dad has had a company for over two decades and.

Small business, and I know that responsibility that he feels to make sure, and, and it becomes like a family if you are Oh, yeah. You know, if you stay small enough. And so I, I can imagine the weight you were carrying during a time when it was like, what is even happening? Like what, 

Meghan: what is even happening?

But then I think about the benefits of [00:12:00] what did happen. For instance, we were not doing well on Zoom, and so we really decided to. Think about how to double down on Sacramento, and then we all got back into a building together and we're, you know. Three days a week hybrid, and we're fueled by each other and we're fueled by collaboration and we're fueled by innovation.

And for me personally, I was like, we can't stay remote for mental health reasons. You know? Um, we just can't. So we're gonna figure out ways to be able to invest in not just our city, because having a. For the city is also super important, right? 

Speaker 5: Yeah. 

Meghan: We wanna be a place where there's a creative corner, where there is ingenuity and innovation and real human thought processes coming out.

So it's exciting and even thinking about that, we're talking about maybe five years ago and a pandemic fast forward to the losing sleep at night over ai. Like 

Kristin: Totally. It's always gonna be something, right? Like what? 

Meghan: When you talk, when you talk about [00:13:00] evolution, I am just sitting here like. Holy shit. 

Kristin: Yes.

Meghan: Everything is evolving. So even going back to your question, did you know by design like no, because yeah, I don't even know what's happening in the world right now, 

Kristin: 100%, but how cool to have that muscle? I remember I had a full-time role during the pandemic, and the woman who ran the company at the time.

All kinds of stories there, as you know, but at at her heart and her core, she cared so deeply about the culture. She was hanging onto it by the skin of her teeth, right? It was like, this is deeply, deeply, deeply important. And I think I remember her talking at during one of our all staff meetings about.

You all are building a muscle that you don't know that you're gonna need in the future. Mm-hmm. Like I know things feel so, so hard right now, but know that you are building something that will serve you again in the future. And I think about that all the time. [00:14:00] Anytime I'm going through a really tough thing, or anytime I am facing a really.

Intense evolution or transition. I'm like, it's just another, it's another flex of that muscle that I keep building that's gonna keep me coming back and keep that resilience going. And I think especially as a small business owner, that muscle. Sometimes the reps are like, you know, a little too much. 

Meghan: Like, um, I've hit the, I've hit rock bottom on my no more, no more flexing.

I think it's resilience. I think you said the right word. And I think it's, there's a quote that someone told me a very long time ago. His name's Adam Federico, and I remember it so clearly. It's evolve or dissolve. And I always put that, I always use that as my reminder that change is constant and I just can't get totally stuck in an idea of what.

Things are or could be because the world's changing. Like AI is bringing a lot more conversations to what we do in design and [00:15:00] marketing and you know, our clients have changed. We used to be heavily into wine and a lot of people aren't drinking anymore. So that has changed. And, but what can we do with good design and good marketing, and how can we do good impact work with that?

Um, mm-hmm. And I feel like there's this, there's a, there's a curiosity that I hope that we all still have around like, what is the future of things, right? For me it's like, what is the future of food? What does that look like? I feel like I've gone back to school over the past year, reteaching myself what I thought.

Was, and learning a lot from our friends in our backyard at uc, Davis, but also being here in Fresno learning about what farmers are having to, you know, what barriers they have. So, I don't know, I think it's the continuous student part is part of the evolution that is very much a path that I. Maybe didn't realize I had to be on at all times.

Yeah, [00:16:00] yeah. It's fun. If I just think it's curiosity, then it, it creates sort of creativity. 

Kristin: I feel like that's a great moment to kind of shift a little bit into as you're talking about the future of food and what you're building with food frontiers. That has been such an interesting thing as a fly on the wall to get to witness and you know, I.

Megan knows, and I, I think I've shared this before in these conversations, but I'm part of this local leadership program where we get to see a kind of behind the scenes in very specific industries or sectors, and one of the days was around food and ag and what we were shown really blew my mind just around like how we need to be thinking about the future of food, the cliff that we're facing within our lifetime, and how people are meeting that moment.

I think. We can, if you're not in these spaces, it can kind of look like we're pushing one dietary choice over another, just based on whether it's healthier for you and or better for the environment. But I don't think people fully appreciate, I shouldn't say that. I [00:17:00] did not fully appreciate how robust that was and just how much innovation is happening.

So tell us a little bit about how that initiative was born and what you all are trying to do with Food Frontier. 

Meghan: Yeah, so I think really what it was was it's, it actually started with advocacy a little bit. Brad, my partner, him and I would go to DC to kind of bring regional issues to really think about ways in which we were learning about what funding was coming in or what was going on with the food and agricultural systems as.

As we, as you know, marketers and chefs think about it, and maybe it's because we don't necessarily know politics, that we sort of bring a story that is much different into the room. For us, it's like, Hey, this is what I'm hearing from my farmers and my winemakers. And he would say, this is what's happening on the culinary side.

Like this is really hard for us. But what happened during this relationship that we built together was that we started to realize that [00:18:00] the. I mean Sacramento region, like California in general, but I'd say Sacramento. 'cause we're huge fans of what we're doing. We were talking in silos about the innovations that were happening in the region.

When we would go and advocate, we'd talk about, say, food security and how, um, we have incredible food banks and food distribution centers that are doing remarkable innovative work. Things that the whole country doesn't even know about. Right? For instance. You know Carrie Johnson, what she's doing with Rancho Cordova community food hub.

She is creating a place where you go actually grocery shop at a food bank. And I think it's beautiful. It changes the way you interact with food. And then you think about uc, Davis, I mean uc, Davis is the number one ag university in the world, and. They are putting out some of the greatest innovation you will have ever seen.

But we don't talk about that. We don't necessarily know that academic portion that's happening. Yeah. And then there's innovation in even the way, you know, visit Sacramento, [00:19:00] put Tara Madre on. So for us, what we kind of wanted to do was unify the stories. Food Frontier was an opportunity to say, Hey, we're doing really cool stuff in this town that's gonna hopefully, fingers crossed, keep the food, keep people and planet healthy for a long time to come.

And that's all coming outta Sacramento. That's really cool. But we weren't telling that story well and so. Brad and I sort of took on the volunteerism 

Kristin: as it starts, right. Typically these things. 

Meghan: Yeah. For love of no sleep, um, for love of no sleep, but also for, for passion. If we can show the world that. We grow great things.

We are doing good things, we are innovating great things, and we have really smart people doing it. Even Center for Land-based Learning, what they're doing, soil-borne farms. You met uli, which I mm-hmm think is one of the most incredible innovations out of Davis [00:20:00] Ali Wing's, the CEO, it's a sweet protein company.

Really thinking how an ingredient like Sweet proteins, which is from a fruit, can reduce our sugar content. It's incredible. So Food Frontier really became this initiative to tell the stories under one unifying voice. And the way we sort of have done it over the past year is we've been educating all of our thought leaders in the region on.

What these things are that maybe they didn't know that was in their backyard. We also took a trip to Denmark, the Netherlands, and Belgium during the summer to study what they're doing. 'cause they really are thinking about that future of food and making it a really. Big conversation within households and within their industries.

It's private public partnership that's constantly happening around food, and it was really awesome to take 20 people there from all different cross sections to learn how they were growing, how they were talking, how consumers felt about it, you know, it was just a really beautiful thing to see. [00:21:00] 

Kristin: Yeah. Yes.

I mean, it's such a cool, I love, you know, and I know storytelling has always been such a huge driver for you, and I think I share that. I share that kind of desire for folks to feel connected to something that can feel quite. Either, um, abstract or out of reach. And it's like these things really are just a part of what make up our daily lives.

They are a very human, these are like human driven things and they deeply affect the way we're gonna be living our lives in the future. But I think just with climate change are these big, gnarly, tricky. Challenges and opportunities. It's hard to quite know how to share that story in a way that folks feel like they can.

Be part of the conversation, right? Like it's not just this thing that's happening over here. And so I love that you are driving that. 'cause if anybody's gonna make it happen, [00:22:00] it's gonna be you. So I'm here for that. Yes. Um, you were sharing a little bit about, I mean, so much of what you've seen evolve Are you seeing, especially so locally, food and ag has kind of shifted over the course of the last 20 years, obviously.

The wine industry we were talking about offline, the decimation of an industry we both love and care about. When you went on this trip, did you get a sense of these kinds of shifts are happening in other spaces as well, and maybe that wasn't part of the conversation, but I'm curious of what we're seeing here is also happening in other countries or if this is something that's more unique to, you know, where we're at?

Meghan: That's a good question. I think what I maybe. Some, some insights that maybe I took away were, there was definitely a distinct feeling of unification and collaboration [00:23:00] around things. So I think that that was really positive to see because it was really hopeful that we can all work together on something from a public, private, small business creative.

Partnership to think through big ideas and think through big challenges. So for instance, I was also really impressed too that everyone felt a sense of role in change. So when we were in Copenhagen for instance, I really, really didn't see a lot of animal protein on the menus. Hmm. I know it's a very fish forward.

Fish forward. That's a weird word. Um, but when we think about protein and how we're consuming it, you definitely felt the menus be different in terms of more plant-based menus. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And also, I would say that in the Netherlands, when we went to Fagan University, you saw this like really cool [00:24:00] startup culture where there was like.

University research going right into sort of like startup innovation, but that's maybe one thing I really did feel was this, this power of each person having a role within change. 

Kristin: Mm. Yeah, and I think that's what, that's what actually then creates the change, right? Is when folks feel like they have some ownership, they have a stake in the game.

I think that's such an important piece of it for folks to feel like they have a relationship. To how things are evolving. Um, I'm cur I would be, so this is kind of a random question, so feel free. It's just where my mind is going is do you think there could be something to, and you've done so much work on the ground with farmers, with people that care deeply about the products they're creating.

Is it difficult or challenging? To kind of shift the narrative around, like in the same way AI can be looked at as decimating certain industries or taking away jobs, is there a fear [00:25:00] at all, you know, for those maybe that have traditionally spent their farm working years in, in raising cattle or raising traditional proteins, is there a concern that has to be addressed for them around as this innovation takes shape?

It's not meant to, you know, take away, but it's meant to subsidize. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Like, am I asking that in a way? 

Meghan: No, I think, I think it's. Almost my answer would be sort of how I think of AI now, and it's, as a collaborator, I think that there is a place and a tool for innovation and hopefully that the efficiency gives us all more time to be totally like not in this hustle.

Where does the innovation help us become more whole? And I think that that's sort of, I think that's what I've sort of felt around the future of food is. That there is really incredible things that can help us be healthier. Ways in which we're not having so many highly [00:26:00] processed foods, for instance, or we're thinking about how our, I mean, I love myself, some animal protein, but how do we make sure, how do we make sure that our soils are still healthy in 20 years so that we have more crops growing and we're just thinking about things in which.

It's not like a monolith. It's very much about, well, if we want this, how do we coexist? I think that's kind of what I've been thinking about is there's this level of coexistence with the future. 

Kristin: Yes. Well, I'm sure that's a big part of the storytelling too, right? Like the messaging has to be one of.

Collaboration. Um, has there, have you noticed just by you, you were just sharing, you kind of almost feel like you went back to school over the last year and you've been educated. Have any of your personal habits changed? Can I ask that? Is there anything that you have been exposed to that you were like, oh, that's gonna change the way I think about my consumption of X, Y, and Z or the way I, [00:27:00] you know, think about my relationship to that?

Kind of food. 

Meghan: Yeah. Yeah. I think multiple things. I've learned a lot more about the micronutrients and things that are beneficial that maybe I've not had in my diet. Like I'm now, my husband calls it swamp water and I drink like this green juice every morning because it's helping me get a little bit more of the diversity that I may not have in my diet as much.

Mm-hmm. Um, but I, you know, overall, I just think that I've. I just wanna make sure that food is still, like food is still part of a core connection in my life. Yes. Yeah. Um, and that. Going and having, you know, breakfast with you or having a glass of wine in the evening. I haven't gotten to the place where I'm like, no alcohol and no, 

Kristin: no, no.

I don't see that ever happening for me. Yay. For those who choose that for themselves is not going to be I. Exactly. 

Meghan: Yeah, and I, I think that that's where there's a [00:28:00] lot more eyes on, just on things in general, but I just, I hope that the connection to. Sitting down and breaking bread never goes away. Yes, yes.

'cause that's where we have the conversations where we get to meet humans and have a glass of wine and learn about somebody. And I think that's the big thing I would take away is it's just slow down, break bread and enjoy the conversations. Mm. 

Kristin: I love that. I had no idea just how much food would become a part.

Food and Bev like it is such a. For me, it is such, it brings such joy. I worked in restaurant industry for a long time. I kind of like had my formative years in San Francisco restaurants and I was exposed to so many things that I was like, what is this? Even? I didn't even know what these things were and found a love of and cooking and yes, the community that comes around in these spaces, I still love.

I feel saddened by the fact that the restaurant industry still has not fully rebounded from what we experienced during [00:29:00] COVID. And because I have such a love for these spaces and you know, I remember my dad sharing with me at a young age, he, he knew freedom would feel like when he could provide his family with.

Nourishing delicious food and create food together and have dinner, not have to worry. He grew up in a time where he had a lot of worry as a child. He didn't get to have these things, and so. That is fully ingrained in who I am also. And it's like I am. So, um, I so hope that the next generations continue to see the benefit of what it means to gather.

Yeah. And yes, I know we're all in these digital spaces and AI will only exacerbate that, I'm sure. But we were talking too before. Started recording. I keep waiting for that like pendulum to to swing all the way back. Maybe not all the way back. That's never gonna happen. But I think that people still really want that connection.

I'm actually gonna gather women from this show because I had enough people say, I [00:30:00] want to meet that other woman that you interviewed. Like, I need to know her. How come I don't know her? So I do think there really is still a desire for that. And how cool that you get to play a part in that going forward.

Meghan: I think the word gather is. Such a great word, and it's going back to that pendulum swing. I think that it's about simplicity, the idea of just things being a little simpler. And before we started recording, I was talking about trying to get my kids to. Use a flip phone because I was like, you know, that would never happen, by the way, to be very clear that they were like, you're out of your mind.

I need Snapchat. That's the only way to communicate, mom. Maybe it's more my generation, but it's just like, just a, just simpler times, just a little bit of simpler times of just making that lasagna on a Sunday afternoon. Sitting down having a slower pace. Um, you know, it's December, here we are. And we were talking about, I wrote down a list that's literally impossible to, [00:31:00] to even cross off, but like, I don't even know why I'm, like, it felt good to write it down, but it meant, it's like you look at it and you.

That, that, that takes like, that's like seven people. Like what are thinking. 

Kristin: Yes. Yes. How you think, is this the, like, is this a uniquely female experience? Do you think Like this need to Maybe not always. Right? I know we cannot speak in generalities always. However, I do continue to hear this. There's this desire or there we are holding.

I told my husband last night, I'm like, I cannot. Write another email for the class or get another message about this thing like my brain. I do, I feel like it has reached its capacity in a way where the writing of it down I actually do think is a very helpful exercise. Whether or not you're gonna get to it all, because I think it takes it all out from here, from your head and at least places it somewhere so you can go, okay, I can see how these things [00:32:00] need to fit together.

But I do find that so many of the women that I. Speak with are holding so, so, so, so much. And it's like, does that ever, does that ever change if you're an ambitious woman who cares about the work they're putting out into the world? I don't know. 

Meghan: Yeah. I, I think it's, I mean, I have a great partner. My husband's amazing.

I have, yeah, a group, my team is. Freaking incredible. I couldn't get up in the morning without the team that I have at Honey and my partners at Food Frontier. But I think even with the support of all of that network, I think individually I put the pressure on myself. Yes. Like if I'm not super, that's my fault, because that list that I made, I was like, oh, I should really clear out my water bottle cabinet.

Why? On, why on earth would I add that to my list in December? Like there's no reason [00:33:00] to do that. And so even with all the support in the world, maybe there's this societal pressure to have your list be out of control. And I mean, I look like that monster because I am creating that. I'm creating that feeling that I'm not worth what I should be unless my productivity is, unless I'm cleaning out the water bottle cabinet and a Zoom call and driving three hours to immediate, like that's like sort of the aha moment that maybe I'm having even right now.

It in my, my hotel room is, it's December 10th and everybody in the world is trying to get across the finish line and I'm adding things that are just. Like what is actually necessary, you know? Yes. That simplicity aspect, you 

Kristin: know, 

Meghan: there's no simplicity to this. Yes. 

Kristin: No, no. I have gone through my own evolution of that over the last few years.

You know, just by, honestly, not intentionally, but just by virtue of [00:34:00] kind of some of the experiences I've had. And I found myself this Thanksgiving, we hosted our house and, um, you know, I, I typically. Would have so many things on the Monday and the Tuesday and the Wednesday before, and like, you know, the things, and I have to do this and blah, blah.

And like, I actually, I think I just wrote a post about this recently. Um, I made a pumpkin pie from scratch and it turned out like laughably fucked up. It was literally like, it wasn't even like the crust drunk and like the thing got weird and I was like, well, like it is what it is. I was like, I could, there was like this.

Tiny part of me that was like, make it again, make it again, make it again. And then I was like, no, I don't need to make it again. First of all, I'm probably the only person that's going to eat pumpkin pie, so I need to make another one. Like why? But it really took. A lot in my body to say, you don't need to do that.

Okay. You don't need to do that. And there was another thing, oh, it was my daughter's birthday is in December, but so many of her other [00:35:00] friends are also in December. And so I was like, Hey, how do we feel about having your party in January? Let's not add another thing and. A few years ago, me would've been like, absolutely not to any of this.

It's all gonna get done and it's gonna be great, and it's gonna look good and it's gonna taste perfect. And I was like, I'm releasing these things that can feel incredibly small but stacked on top of each other. I literally looked at Brian on Thanksgiving morning and I was like, how is this? Like, why do I feel like this?

Why do I feel. So calm, I should be freaking out right now. I should be losing my goddamn mind. I was just like, my friends came in from Oakland. I got to actually sit with them and be with them, and I was like, how come I can't do this more? And I think it's just a. And exercise and realizing that that feels good and that that's okay, and that I can keep Yeah.

Trying that like it's never gonna be perfect ever, ever, ever. [00:36:00] But to feel that way, I was like, oh, I, I would like more of that. How do I get more of that? 

Meghan: I don't even, I, my therapist actually recently said to me, she was like, I didn't know what it felt like to have the boundaries up to make me calm the.

The people pleasing to stop until like my mid forties and yeah, I'm 46 now and I think it's literally been in the past year where I've even understood what it meant to have the protecting of your peace. Right. And I'm still totally like when you're waking up, calm on Thanksgiving morning. 

Kristin: You should wake up cold.

No. Isn't that the whole point? It's like the whole point. Right? 

Meghan: You should be watching like a parade with mimosas, you know? But it's, I, it's really sad. And I remember her even saying this recently. She said, it's so sad that you didn't know it sooner. Yeah. [00:37:00] And sort of has broken my heart a little bit to think like.

Wow. I'm just learning this like just now, like really? And so, I don't know. I do think I look at my daughter though, who's 17 and she's better than I am. 

Speaker 5: Yeah. She's 

Meghan: better than I am at her boundaries. And it's so fascinating and I, and I hope that, I hope that there, that we see that more because you almost get to a breaking point of that feeling of.

Productivity and go and people pleasing and lack of boundaries. And then you hit this point of like, yeah, I'm in therapy every week because I can't figure out how to get past it. And then you're like, oh, it's as simple as that. Yeah. It's as simple as making sure yourself, you feel calm. Oh, 

Kristin: but that is so not simple, right?

Like it sounds so simple, but I think the conditioning and the like, we've spent our whole. Lives living in a different way. [00:38:00] And so to break some of those habits down and to look at it differently and to look at our worth differently, to look at our identity differently, like those are big things. Those are not just a flip of a switch and you go like, and it's simple.

It is really hard, I think, to be in that level of self-reflection and go, is this what I really want? Do I really want my life? F to feel like this. And those are not easy questions. I think, you know, it's a, it's a challenging thing to allow yourself even to ask yourself that. And we grew up, I've been on this.

Lately where I'm like the freaking girl boss, like hustle culture. Like you can do it all. Like we grew up in a time when that was messaging and I'm grateful for it in so many ways because it created different pathways for ambition and you know, moving forward and. All of the rest. But I think in many ways it was also incredibly toxic.

There are different ways to navigate within what it means to create and to [00:39:00] build and find success, but I feel like we kind of were sold a very specific version of it that takes time to dismantle, you know? 

Meghan: Yeah, it is like, there wasn't like a moderation, right? It was like if you were gonna be a girl boss, you're gonna go is you're gonna go as hard as you can and you're gonna, you're gonna build and you're gonna build and you're gonna go.

And I always have just never loved that term, but I think it's almost too that like I refuse to see and it's, we work very busy at honey and we're hardworking and. Being a small business in a creative studio is really, really, really, really, really hard. Mm-hmm. But I also have a lot of moms and dads that work at Honey, and I really hope that I don't allow them to do what I did because I didn't take maternity with my son.

For maybe a couple weeks. You know, I didn't spend as much time as I should have this year as the first [00:40:00] year I started really saying I'm picking up my kids from school. 

Speaker 5: Hmm. 

Meghan: And that's so weird. I've had guilt for it for so long and yeah, I pick them up and I get right back online and it's totally doable and possible.

There are times where like we all need to be in the office to, to kind of. Create collaboration. But I do hope that they feel that there's a sense of, you know, them being, I don't believe you can leave your stuff at the door. I just, no, I do not. Because when your kid's been throwing up all night long and you're worried that you're about 24 hours away from getting a stomach flu too.

Yeah, 

Kristin: a hundred percent. Yes, 

Meghan: yes, yes. You're just like, I just cleaned up vomit all night. I guarantee you I'm gonna be throwing up tonight. You just can't function at work the same way, you know, it's, it's different. But I think that, yeah, 20 years ago when I started, it was like, go, yeah, you're a woman and you have an opportunity now.

And it's, yes. 

Kristin: Can we have moderation please? I know. Yes. Yes. I know, I know. But how I [00:41:00] Beautiful. That I remember actually. So Megan gave a really beautiful talk a couple of years ago as part of a local speaker series. She would've told you, and I hope you don't mind me sharing this, it was almost like an out of body experience.

'cause she got up on that stage and just kind of let her heart out there in a way that was like, and this is what makes a truly great speaker, as far as I'm concerned. You can have all the polished. Whatever that you want. But if someone's not connecting to you and who you are, then the message never is gonna feel quite the same.

And there was, you know, kind of a general theme of like. Uh, having less fucks to give and how that starts to happen over time. And, you know, I had, I was in a very similar space as I was hearing you talk about that. And I do, I do think that that is the beauty of aging and the wisdom that you get to acquire over the course of time is you do the, the shits you give about other people's.

Feelings or opinions [00:42:00] or thoughts about how you're moving in the world, they start to lessen a bit. And that's the other thing that I think if I could have shared something with my younger self was to, to, to have that lesson. I know there's no regret. You can't, you know, in hindsight it's, it's all different.

But that is also what I hope for my kids to learn younger is Yes. You know, the boundaries to your point, and also. You have what you need inside of you, and that is enough. You are enough, and you get to show up in ways that are authentic to who you are. I learned how to really play the game for many years.

And then when you're looking at it and you're like, oh, ew. Like, what was I doing again? It's, it's tricky. It's so tricky. 'cause I'm like everything that, everything that's made us to who we are and where we are today, I'm not advocating for like. It should have never been or throwing the baby out with bath water.

But I am certainly in a [00:43:00] moment of, okay then what am I doubling down on that has worked And what am I releasing that really never was working? And that is also a tricky moment, I think, as a female leader to like also allow yourself, I keep using that word, allow, um, that keeps coming up in this conversation.

'cause I do think we have to allow ourselves before anybody else 

Meghan: Yeah. Allows 

Kristin: us right. 

Meghan: It's interesting you bring up that bold speaker series speech because I think that like Food Frontier was sort of born after that. It was sort of a moment where I was like, I need to do something that I feel really good about.

In terms of where I wanted like legacy work to be for the community. At the same time, I still think today I give all the fuck still. 

Kristin: Yeah, 

Meghan: I said it and it's still like, it's still so hard to say. I got up there. I really wanted to shed, you know, this feeling of [00:44:00] people pleasing or what I needed to do to, you know.

Be out there. 'cause I still think that I need to work on that. How am I still talking about this? How, how do I still need to work on boundaries? You know? Um, and I think that that's really hard. You brought something up that I said I was gonna change, and I don't think I've gotten there quite yet, but it's like an.

It's like peeling back an onion slowly. You know 

Kristin: what I mean? Again, yes. This is not, this work does not happen. Like this is decades of us, you know, living in a particular way. I am a bonafide people pleaser, and that is, it's a blessing and a curse. Right? Because I think ultimately for both you and I, and the way I've seen it show up for you is you truly want people to feel seen, heard, held, right?

Like the, and I don't wanna speak into it for you, but this is my. What I have witnessed with you, and it, it feels resonant for me, which is it can be the achilles heel in that it can lead to [00:45:00] decisions or things that don't honor how we want to be prioritizing our own time or whatever. Um, time, energy, all the things, right?

I'm having a giant moment of, as I go into next year of like, okay, what are the things that I have said yes to, that ultimately I don't need to be holding anymore. I think it's a constant. Almost like coming back with an audit. Like, mm, I like that word. But now that you have that foundation, right, it's like now you know you want to come back to that.

I don't think it will. I, as people that care deeply about others, I don't know that that ever goes fully Yeah. Away. I think it's like how do you work within it in a way that still honors, right? Like who you want to be in the world, but also still is, it's in support of the fact that you do care. About humans.

It's how you lead. And so that's never, that's never gonna change. Like so, right. You're never gonna like not have any bucks to give. 'cause that's just who you are at your core. I know. I think that's what I realized 

Meghan: is like [00:46:00] here I was saying like, I'm gonna work really hard on boundaries and then I'm just like, but I love to learn.

It's like I love to give all my time and you know, but now, now I really, I, I have this. Sort of like time capsule with my kids. They are so much older and my daughter is a year and a half away from going to college or, or somewhere, whatever she decides. And so for me now I'm protecting. So much more of my time in a way that's yes for them.

You know, don't call me on Wednesday nights because we are survivors. We are watching survivors still. 

Kristin: You're still doing that. I love it. I love it. Yes. 

Meghan: That's 

Kristin: so good. You know, 

Meghan: I'm like, I can't count Wednesday night because we've got, like, we're trying to figure out who's gonna win. Um, I love it. So there's just things that I've realized over time are just too important to, to change.

Yes. You know, and so a hundred percent, I don't know, it's. It's awesome. It's, it's [00:47:00] scary. I think this ride just keeps getting different as you get older in terms of how you manage, how you build businesses. I mean, with belden strategies too, it's like, it's fresh, it's entrepreneurial, it's different, it's thinking.

It's just sometimes you just wanna like go back to Thanksgiving. Calm. Yes. It's just where is my why? When do you start to figure out like. Oh, this is, I'm settled and this is good, and I don't know. I don't know the answer. 

Kristin: Mm, I don't either. Yeah. Yes, I don't either. And I wonder, you know, sometimes on the daily, it's not even just a daily.

Like pendulum between both of those emotions. It's like hourly. I'll wake up one hour and I'm like, yes, like, let's go. And then like an hour later I'm like, what am I doing? Like what? Stop? Like, just like, it's just like we're we're, we're like, why? I think contentment for me will look like. Okay. Both can coexist.

Yes, but I'm not constantly swiveling my head on such a dime. It's like, okay, I can [00:48:00] live within the tension of both being true and I don't need to be constantly brought over here because this is what's pulling me, this energy around calm or this energy around, you know, ambition. Both can be true. I think that is what it will feel like to me.

Love that if I can ever get there, that's the hope and the dream. Um. I have two more questions for you. Yes. Love that. Yes. I, I'm taking, 

Meghan: I am actually taking that from today. I am gonna, okay. 

Kristin: I love it. 

Speaker 5: Coexist with 

Meghan: both because, yeah. I'll get on the, I have to do meditation every morning and then I'm like, it's like why can't I just coexist with a maybe getting up in the morning and not meditating?

Kristin: Be okay with it. Yes, it's okay. Yes. This has been my number one learning over the last few years is. Number one, it doesn't have to be perfect to begin. Things can just be messy. And it doesn't, I do not have to have an hour every day for yoga, for my yoga practice to matter because it's not reality. And if I care about these [00:49:00] things, then 10 minutes on a Monday is just as important as, you know, an hour and a half class I can get to on a Thursday, right?

Like both matter. But I lived my life for a very long time where it was like, well. If I can't do yoga every day for 90 minutes, like what am I even doing? Like what is yes, maybe both. I'm always nice. That feels right. God, ugh. I knew this wasn't gonna happen. I said at the beginning, I have 45 questions here.

They're sitting here, there for another time. Um, two things. One is the question I ask everyone, and we'll, we'll end with that, but. Before that, like knowing, you know, we didn't even talk about another project that you launched Simple Summers. You are a full on serial entrepreneur. This is part of what you do, is you build good things in the world.

If you could have seen younger Megan, you know, 20 years ago, Megan, what do you think she would have found most surprising about the moment that you find yourself in now 

Meghan: [00:50:00] 20 years ago? I don't think that I would've seen myself loving mentoring. Mm. I don't think that I would've seen myself loving building a team.

Mm. And really, I think I thought 20 years ago very much about myself and my career. And now I think more about other people's careers. I mean, I still think about mine. I'm not gonna, that's of course gonna be dishonest, but I really am excited about seeing other people feel like they are. They're doing good things and whole work.

And I've an incredible team. I have my creative director, Ash, has been with Honey 10 years. Maggie has been, who is now president of Honey, 11 years. To say out loud that I have two women that have been by my side for that long is like pinch me [00:51:00] moments. 

Speaker 5: Hmm. So I think 

Meghan: 20 years ago you couldn't have told me that.

That would be where I find the most peace. Like it's so cool. 

Kristin: Hmm. Oh my gosh. That's so, I, I am, I don't know that I had a, a thought on your answer to that question. That one is surprising to me. I think only because so much of how I see you is that, and so the fact that it was surprising for you to see that right in yourself now, that is so how you show up and your development of others and your desire to see others shine.

So I love that that has. Been actually an interesting reflection for you and what a cool it. It truly is true. I really mean it when I say, whenever people talk about honey, and not just honey, but really any kind of space that you inhabit, people do feel like they are seen and respected and they get to show up as their whole selves.

Like that is a really, that's a huge gift. I think people don't. Realize that that is not how most folks get to show up in their work, [00:52:00] right? Many people have these very strong parameters. They are meant to do a job and that's it. And you show up and you go home. So to get to, to have you as a mentor in that space, and I'm sure just as lucky for you to have them, as you said by your side, like, so cool.

So, so cool. Um, last question, and it's a perfect segue because I ask everyone this for me and so much of the work that I do with women. It's about the legacy that they're building towards. Because so much of our own kind of personal internal evolution as it's tied to the external strategy of whatever we're building, those two things coming together for me, it really is about what is the legacy that we're trying to leave.

And I'm always careful to say, I don't mean legacy in this, like weighted heavy, like when you die, it's a. To me, there's a lightness to it. There's a joy around what are we building today that's in service of what we do leave behind. So I like to ask everyone, what does building a legacy mean to you? [00:53:00] 

Meghan: I think it really has to do with, even if I don't practice what I preach every day around connection, um, I hope every bit of work I do, whether it's being a mom, being a friend, owning honey.

Working on Food Frontier, simple Summers that it always goes back to people should have human connection. Like people should break bread. People should remind themselves that there's goodness across the table, and I think if we can learn from each other, I think we'll just be in a really better place. I also think that Sacramento is the perfect place to do that.

I think because we have this. Sort of maybe like, um, a mentality that's not as big around our ego, that we have food and agriculture as bedrock. That that legacy also comes [00:54:00] around with regards to let's not forget what it means to be human and to foster connection. And I think in marketing too, and I'm, and this is kind of why I think I love marketing, is.

I hate the word maybe, but it really is the art of storytelling and I think the art of storytelling is also passed down through connection. You're not gonna get learn. Yes. You're not gonna learn about someone's, you know, deep love of something via email. It's gonna be sitting down, having a long glass of wine and feeling an environment around you.

So. I hope that that's the work, that's the legacy work. It's just like, just connect, you know? Um, yes, just do it. So I think that that's what I would say. 

Kristin: I love it. Yes. And you are literally the epitome of that. So I [00:55:00] can see that shaping just in everything you do and how you show up in the world and you bring so much to this space and to these conversations.

So I just feel super. Fortunate to call you a friend. Thank you. And I'm so grateful for your time. Thank you for hanging out with me. I'm 

Meghan: so grateful to be here today and to talk to you. And now we're gonna have to do that soon at a wine bar. 

Kristin: Yes, yes, yes. The offline to your point. Yes, I'm ready for that.

Let's go. Keep the wine industry afloat together. Yes, please. I love it. Alright friend. So good to see you. So good to see you. See you soon. Bye.



Speaker: Thank you so much for listening and spending some of your time with me here. I hope our conversation sparked some new ideas for you. If you enjoyed the episode, please make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's next. And if you are ready for even more tools and stories, head on over to belden strategies.com/newsletter.

I share fresh insights, stories, and tools for women [00:56:00] leaders every week. Until next time, keep building, keep evolving, and remember that you are kind of a big deal.