The Murky Middle: Navigating What’s Next

What if the pressure to “have a plan” is the very thing keeping you stuck?

Join me as I sit down with Celeste Gutierrez - a recent graduate who thought she had her path mapped out, until she realized (just one month before finishing) that it no longer fit.

Instead of forcing clarity, she chose exploration.

What makes this conversation powerful isn’t just her age - it’s her approach. Celeste is navigating uncertainty with curiosity, courage, and a willingness to try things before she feels fully ready.

And that’s something many of us (at any stage) forget we’re allowed to do.

We talk about pivots (and whether they’re even pivots at all), anxiety around making the “wrong” choice, the noise of social media comparison, the pressure of hustle culture, and what it really means to build resilience in real time.

This is a conversation about being in-between. About the tension between possibility and fear. About reaching out before you feel qualified. About trying everything - not because you’re lost, but because you’re paying attention.

If you’re in a season of transition - questioning your next move, rethinking your identity, or resisting the pressure to have it all figured out - this one will resonate.

You’ll Learn:

⭐ Why there may be no such thing as a wrong decision
⭐ How to reframe “pivots” as clarity unfolding
⭐ What social media comparison is actually revealing about you
⭐ Why networking is really relationship-building 
⭐ How resilience is built through small, uncomfortable risks
⭐ How to stay connected to what you love - even as your career evolves

Key Insights:

Clarity Comes From Movement:
You don’t think your way into the right path - you experiment your way there.

Comparison Can Be Information:
Jealousy often reveals desire. Pay attention to what pulls you.

Relationships Create Opportunity:
Bold outreach and real conversations open doors that credentials alone can’t.

Resilience Isn’t Flippant - It’s Earned:
Confidence grows through trying, adjusting, and surviving small failures.

You Can Hold Ambition and Uncertainty at the Same Time:
Possibility and fear coexist. That tension doesn’t mean you’re behind - it means you’re growing.

Timestamps:

[00:00:00] – Introduction: The pressure to have it figured out
 [00:04:00] – Changing direction at the last minute
 [00:08:00] – Pivot or growth?
 [00:12:00] – The anxiety of making the “wrong” decision
 [00:14:00] – Social media: comparison vs. connection
 [00:18:00] – Reframing jealousy
 [00:23:00] – AI, the job market, and uncertainty
 [00:26:00] – Networking boldly
 [00:32:00] – Hustle culture vs. exploration
 [00:38:00] – Trying everything
 [00:40:00] – Building resilience
 [00:44:00] – What kind of legacy do you want to leave?

Resources and Links:

Find host Kristin Belden on LinkedIn or at BeldenStrategies.com
Sign up for more conversations and insights at BeldenStrategies.com/newsletter

Connect with Celeste on LinkedIn
Follow Celeste on Instagram: @Celeste.Mariaa

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, follow the show, and leave a review. And if you’re navigating your own inflection point, join my newsletter at BeldenStrategies.com/newsletter for more conversations about leadership, identity, and building what’s next.

Transcript

Speaker 2: [00:00:00] Welcome back to kind of a big deal. What does it feel like to graduate early? Pivot your entire career path a month before finishing and step into the unknown without a roadmap. Today's conversation is with Celeste. A recent grad navigating what she calls the murky waters of post-college and pre official career launch, but she's doing it with a level of intentionality and presence that truly makes her wise beyond her years.

She's asking the hard questions, trying everything, talking to people who are doing cool things. And building her own recipe for what comes next. In our chat, we talk about the courage it takes to pivot when you're supposed to have it all figured out. Why exploration matters more than having the perfect plan, and how building resilience happens in those small, uncomfortable moments of trying something new.

We also talk about what it means to stay connected to the things you love and how those rituals become anchors in your life. This is [00:01:00] Celeste, and she's just getting started.



Speaker 3: Hi, Celeste. 

Speaker 4: Why Kristen? 

Speaker 3: It's so good to see you. 

Speaker 4: It's amazing to see you. 

Speaker 3: I am super happy to have you hanging out with me today. So I usually start these conversations by giving just a little bit of the background on the woman in front of me, um, why I asked her to join me in conversation. So Celeste and I kind of had this fortuitous meeting.

She is interning at a really cool. Event slash coworking space that Fred manage and own. And I went to an event and we got to chatting and it turns out that she has really similar background and similar kind of interests. She is from my alma mater, recently graduated, uh, and she's just a really fun person to hang with.

We ended up having coffee shortly after. And she's just one of those women that is [00:02:00] wise beyond her years. She is very, um, what I have witnessed in the short amount of time I've known each other is just a real intentionality about the moment that she's in thinking about how she wants to be in this moment and what that looks like for her as she kind of shapes her next.

Part of her path, and she has a level of curiosity that I think is so important at this stage, at any stage of our lives. So when she was asking me some questions about my journey, I was like, you got this because you're already doing the stuff that most people don't do. You're doing the questions, you're thinking about it.

You're being intentional. So I was really excited to invite her to come and chat with us, because I think. Typically these conversations that I've had are with women who are quite a bit further in their journeys, and to get the perspective of someone who's just getting going, who is navigating the kind of murky waters of post-college and pre official career launch, [00:03:00] or, I'm, I'm just excited to get to chat with you today.

So thank you for being here. 

Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. I, this is such a unique, amazing experience and I feel very honored to be added to the plethora of amazing women in which you've interviewed. I mean, every woman has just had such unique things to add about their journey, so I feel honored to be able to share mine, so thank you.

Speaker 3: Absolutely. Um, let's just get into it. When we met, you had a really specific question for me. That got me thinking and it was something along the lines of like, how did I navigate these years that are post-college? But right before you've really embarked on a clear path forward, my answer was don't ask me.

'cause I was a hot mess fact that I am not one to give advice. But I wanted to bring it back to you and kind of ask you, you know, what led to that question for you. What kinds of things are popping up for you as you have. [00:04:00] Come out of the warm safety net of being in college and kind of out into the wild, wild west of what it looks like to look for a career or think about what's next.

Speaker 4: First of all, I'm a hot mess, and you got to an amazing point, so I'm sure you are not a hot mess, but in a fun way. In a fun way. Ous, but there's some beauty to it I guess. But, um, yeah, I mean, I feel like I am a preschooler. Be honest. I am going back. I'm stirring all over again. I'm like, mom, no, don't leave me.

I am just starting on this new journey and I've been in a system where everyone's been telling me. Oh, I'm a great student. I know how to follow being a good student, but now I don't really know how to pursue a career path, especially when I've switched What [00:05:00] I've wanted to do, I originally wanted to be a professor or um, an art curator for museums, but then I, through exploration, which I'd love to talk about later, I found out that I have other things that I'm passionate about and that I'm good at.

So now I'm like, okay, I'm in this totally new world. So the thing that I've found has been the most helpful is just seeing other amazing women who are doing really cool things and asking them, how did you do it? 

Speaker 3: Hmm. 

Speaker 4: Because I'm trying to learn the recipe. I'm trying to find out how, you know, I fit into this world.

And I think seeing people who are doing. Really cool things, things that I would wanna do. They have that recipe of how to be great, how to be successful. So I would say just, just trying to learn this new way of life, I guess. 'cause everything just is so new. 

Speaker 3: [00:06:00] Yes. Uh, I wish there were a recipe. I feel like, you know, it's so funny when we think about these, it can feel like when you've seen somebody maybe land in a place that feels.

Interesting or right. Those folks are likely still figuring it out also in some way. Right. And every phase of life brings some new unknown that you're like, wait, I thought I had this figured out. Now I'm gonna deal with this. Or now I'm entering this whole new thing. You know, it's So, I'm glad you brought up your pivot because it's something I wanted to ask you about.

Number one, it takes a lot of self-awareness and courage to be willing to make a pit run. Sometimes we can get a little stuck in the groove of. Then I'm gonna do this thing and now I have to do this thing. And to be able to take a pause and allow yourself the grace to recognize that maybe this isn't the exact right fit for this moment, I wanna acknowledge that that takes bravery.

Yeah. Maybe share a little bit about kind of what that exploration looks like for you. 

Speaker 4: So [00:07:00] I was doing all the work to be a professor, to be a curator. I was talking to curators and museums. I was connecting with people, I was doing symposiums. I did an exhibit at a local, um, history museum. I was getting recommendation letters from professors.

I was always sort of that girl that would raise her hand in class. And I just loved to talk about history. I still do, but um, and then I did. I decided I wanted to join a fashion club because I'm really, I was passionate about fashion history. Still am, but um, and I love meeting people through fashion and I've always been interested in events.

I worked with doing events in high school. I was super involved and I would just do events for families and I was like, let me try it out. Well, I ended up loving it. Being good at it. So let me try this, because I realized I didn't really wanna be a professor anymore. It [00:08:00] wasn't the life for me. And I realized that about a month before I graduated.

I graduated in three years too, so, 

Speaker 3: oh, I don't think you told me that. When could, okay. That's not surprising at all, by the way. But 

Speaker 4: no, it was just sort of, I was rushing towards this professor think it was like, I gotta graduate in three years so I can get my doctorate. And I'm like, okay, what am I doing now?

I totally changed what I wanted to do and I felt a little bit behind because people who had already known that they wanted to do events have, you know, they've interned, they've done other stuff, and I've done everything going in a totally separate path. 

Speaker 3: Right. 

Speaker 4: But then someone and I. Had this panic about it.

Someone told me recently though, it's, it's not really a pivot though, because I'm 22 and I'm like, do should I know what I want to do at 22? I don't. No, a hundred percent, no. [00:09:00] So I just, when I realized I wanted to do that, I just started talking to people. Molly used to be my neighbor, and I know that she did events, so I asked her if I could shadow her.

Speaker 3: Whoa. 

Speaker 4: And I shadowed her and it turned into an internship. 

Speaker 3: Very cool. 

Speaker 4: And then through that too, I've been able to explore other possibilities of things I would like to pursue. I've actually started, I've talked with Kristen about this, but I'm kind of interested in maybe doing like events for a nonprofit or activations for a nonprofit.

So I've gotten involved with that, been able to ask people. Just find what I like to do because as I've watched a bunch of your videos, you know, no one really sticks to one thing for their life there. It's, it's beautiful to explore and I think just life is full of pivots. It's not just one big pivot that I'm doing right now.

Speaker 3: That's a hundred percent true. And I think it's so interesting. I met with a woman who I admire and respect [00:10:00] deeply this morning actually for coffee and. She had shared, like I had asked if she would be interested in, in being, you know, uh, in this conversation. And part of her perspective was, well, I don't know if I have much to share.

You know, I didn't have my, my career has been this kind of snowball of one thing leading to the night. Like that's everybody. Like, I don't know anyone, frankly, unless you really are clear that you're going to be a doctor or a lawyer or something. Right? Where there is a clear path and that's what you stick to, but.

The majority of people, I think if you're curious and open and aware and willing to take opportunities that come your way that you might not have even expected, or if that would be part of your journey. And then it does the alternate stack. And I like that you just said it's not necessarily pivot, and that's not only because of your age and the phase that you're in, but I recently said something along of those lines for my own business.

Is that I feel like I'm almost [00:11:00] starting over because I had started with really heavy in business strategy. You know, helping folks with setting up their operations and helping them, thinking about growing into what's next. And now that I'm really, really focused on supporting women at these inflection points, I that I feel like I'm, you know, pivoting into this new space and someone reflected back to me, you're not pivoting, you're just honing in and you're getting clear over her and you're moving into the next phase.

And I think. Same for you, right? You have some experience already stacked up, whether it's through going through a four year program in three years, five for some of us, me, but yeah, I think looking at it as a, an experience stacking, it's leading to the next thing, and part of that can feel like a shift, but it might not be as big of a pivot as you think.

It's a, an awareness of what you're really interested in pursuing. Is there anything that you feel like you're supposed to have figured out right now that you feel like either society has told [00:12:00] you you should have, like had this figured out by now? Or are you entering a space where you can give yourself the grace and patience of this moment?

Speaker 4: In a way, it's everything. I was talking about you to this, but just seeming professional. I feel like I'm supposed to just be this totally new person. That, you know, she's businessy. Wow. She looks together. I think also to have that figured out, applying for jobs, knowing technology. I sometimes feel like an 80-year-old woman and a 7-year-old at the same time.

So everything but also nothing, I think. I feel like the world expects so much of me, but I think everyone knows that I'm young, I'm starting out, and even though on LinkedIn or social media, my peers seem like they have it together. I don't think at this age it's hard to [00:13:00] have everything together. So 

Speaker 3: at any age.

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Speaker 3: Um, still figuring that out. I think it's so interesting for me. Sharing space with you. And my perception of you was you are way older than you are. And I think that could also sometimes lead folks maybe to expect something from you that you're like, whoa, I'm over here still trying to figure it out.

Right? So I do wonder if maybe there's something there because you perceive yourself to be, I think maybe younger or showing up less experienced. But for those around you, I think many folks would have guessed that you're. Five to 10 years older than you actually are because you do have such a, I think there's something about women that have a, a foundational awareness of themselves that allows them to be authentic, that allows them to show up differently.

And that's something that I witnessed in use so quickly. So [00:14:00] I think know that other people are not perceiving you the way. That you're risk yourself. But I love that you just said that about social media. 'cause you mentioned in an earlier chat that it's this double edged sword in the smell of it. Like it can be loud, you can be comparing yourself, you can be seeing, saying that maybe make it seem like folks have things figured out.

When I came into the workforce, social media was not a thing yet. Not really, not to the extent that it is today. And so I didn't have that. That was not that. That extra layer I think is really complicated. 'cause you also then shared that it can also make you feel like you're not alone. 'cause you know that there's other people that are also trying to figure out where they're going, what they're doing.

Um, so curious if you could break that down a little bit more. 

Speaker 4: So, I mean, just it's every, as I was saying earlier with you, everything is just so loud and it's sort of this [00:15:00] angel and devil in shoulder. There's the devil saying. Look at this person who just got this awesome internship or awesome job on LinkedIn.

Look at this person who's moving to New York and has like super cool clothes. Then there's this other side that's kind of like this person's posting about how they're starting over, uh, 35 and sharing a series of, you know, these moments that there's a beauty in it and I think it makes me feel so much better just when people are vulnerable.

Speaker 3: Yeah. On 

Speaker 4: social media. So it's, you know, I. It's one post where I'm like, oh my gosh, their lives are so cool. But then there's this other post that'll go and it's like, I'm struggling too. But there's that beautiful side. But I think with that bad side, you have to remind yourself that these people are probably struggling too, and probably don't have it together.

I mean, someone the other day was like. Oh, my sister just thinks you're so cool, Celeste. Like, she loves your Instagram. [00:16:00] Like, you look, you're having so much fun. I'm like, I'm actually terrified right now. But, um, not doing awesome. But, you know, social media is a facade, so I think we just always have to have that reminder.

But I am very thankful to the people who are sharing their journeys and there's just such a variety of journeys, you know. People being laid off, people moving to a new city, people quitting their job and traveling the world. So despite all the noise, I mean, I'm a little bit grateful for the social media age, I guess, because 

Speaker 3: yeah, 

Speaker 4: people, you're not alone.

So 

Speaker 3: yes, I have been seeing more and more of that. My social media for a middle aged woman is now LinkedIn. 

Speaker 4: Is 

Speaker 3: this very funny. Um, yeah, I was really not engaged with LinkedIn until I started my own business because then all of a sudden your entry space is a little bit differently and it's same, right?

Like to this [00:17:00] day I still can 

Speaker 4: find both of those things to be true. There are moments where I'm 

Speaker 3: looking through or seeing something I wanna engage with, so I'm like, damn, they have got it figured out. Like, how do they do that? Or like, that looks cool. I wish I could do that. And then in the next breath there will be someone sharing.

About something that they've navigated as a challenge, whether it's in building their own thing or in the corporate world. And I feel like, I feel very thankful for the fact that more and more people, it seemed like there's a vulnerability that's coming out more in some of these platforms where they used to be, it was very buttoned up.

It used to be that it was very, like you only present a very specific professional side of yourself, and I am, maybe it's just 'cause of my algorithm or the people that I'm following, but I. See that there's more folks that seem to be willing to take the mask off a little bit. And I think it's great because to your point, then we get to see the good and the hard, and that's just the reality of [00:18:00] it, that as we're building to the things that we care about gonna be messy, it's gonna be cloy that it's feel harder sometimes than others.

So knowing that you have folks right out there navigating some other challenge that may or may not. Be applicable to your own life has been helpful for me too. And I was told, I love this from a coaching program I went through. When you look at something and think like, oh, that looks cool, or I wish I could do that, or like the, there's any like Green Envy monster that starts to just show its head a little bit.

Reframing that as, oh, I'm hearing something about myself in this. What is it about what they're doing that I think is so compelling? What is it that maybe I'm not doing? I could be doing that would build some of what they are creating or whatever the thing is. But I liked that reframe. 'cause I think sometimes jealousy is actually just showing you what you want or what you might be wanting to build towards that you didn't even know.

Speaker 4: I would definitely say that I've been trying [00:19:00] to reframe my mind like that kind of, you know, I think social media, I'm thinking when I see a post I'm like, oh, I wish I had that life. It's, I could have that life any at at this point in time. I feel like at this age, everything feels impossible to achieve, but also everything feels possible to achieve.

Yeah, we were talking about, there's all of these avenues that I can go down and it's scary and it seems like I could never go down as office, but they're open for me. I just have the resources. I can contact people, talk to people. Throw myself out there and I can get there. It's just very, very scary. But so yeah.

This duality of possibility and impossibility. 

Speaker 3: Yes. I think yes. And that continues, right? Like that program I was just mentioning, I was a bit peers who are 10, 15, even 20 years further on in their career than I [00:20:00] am. And they're also looking at, wait, there's still wide open pastures for me. Even at this later stage of my life or my career, because I do sometimes believe that we have been sold a little bit of a lie that like, oh, you picked this thing and then you go down this route and then it's gonna be, and then you do X and then you do, but and then like, no, no, no.

Actually none of that is true at all. And I don't know that I lived a whole lot of the early part of my career with that awareness. I had some really great experiences, but. I think something might have clicked a little differently for me earlier on if I had been aware of the fact that I have full ownership of my decisions and I don't have to give a shit what other people think about this decision.

Do you feel like, is there any outside voice that speaks louder in your mind around expectation or. You know, I [00:21:00] should be doing X or if I pick this, then maybe that's going against this thing I should be doing. We, 

Speaker 4: oh my goodness, every single second of my life

I have pretty bad anxiety, so it's always noisy here. Um, but yeah, I mean, my friends always tell me like, you are too hard on yourself because. I always feel like if I do this, it's the wrong decision. If I do that, it's the wrong decision. It kind of feels sometimes, like I convince myself that there's no right choice.

Everything is going to, you know, ruin my future. I'm gonna die, everything's gonna go horribly and burst blame. So many people have told me, you know, there's no wrong choice. I think I just have to push away that scary voice and just. Listen to people because I tend to not see [00:22:00] truth. So I think that I need to just like really be intent.

That's something that I would like to be, is just be more intent on what my, what's actually happening and what not. The delusion I need to not focus on the delusion. 

Speaker 3: The catastrophizing of what? Yeah, yeah. Yes. Listen, I get that a hundred percent and I am. Likely one of the people that also shared there is no wrong decision.

'cause I now believe that wholehearted, I really believe that. It's easy to say that, but I think until you've lived enough of it, it's hard to convince yourself of that. But I do believe that as you start to make your decisions, you'll see that, oh, that led to this thing, or that led to that thing, or, oh my gosh, amazing.

I didn't even think this was. Opportunity or I didn't even know that thing existed because I said yes to this other thing. But it is, it is so hard, especially as the world gets more expensive. Yeah. Especially, you know, AI and advancing tech [00:23:00] just continues to like tumble towards us faster and faster. I think it can be difficult to feel like, oh, any decision I make will be okay.

'cause so much is changing in real time that I can imagine that feel heavier. For your generation that it might have for mine. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. AI is sort of the big scary thing right now, especially when you're coming from a background in humanities and then the job market's terrifying. I feel, especially my age group right now is it's just the very beginning of ai, especially AI being implemented into all these different careers.

So we just, again, as I was saying earlier, we all don't know where we fit in with how the workforce is changing. I think a couple of years along the line, I think we'll have things figured out a little bit more about how careers can be changed and how different paths and fields will be altered with AI while creating jobs for people.

Hopefully that's [00:24:00] look my optimism, um, because you know, AI is not going away as much as someone who kind of. Is again, like an 80-year-old woman, really like technology. But um, 

Speaker 3: you know, 

Speaker 4: I think, yeah, just being at this, my generation's just at this very big crossroad too of, you know, do I bet, I think every generation is, do you do what you're passionate about?

Do you sort of do this free thing or do you try and rush in and get a career while this, because this job market is so scary and you don't know what the future's going to look like. I think that's a big issue right now, and I've talked to a lot of friends who just say, I've applied to 300 jobs and I can't find anything.

Speaker 3: Yep, yep. That's across the board. Right. I think folks that I've talked to that are even further on in their careers, it's really, unless you have a really dialed in network or a group of people that you are constantly, and I think that is something also to be thinking about, right? It's how are you [00:25:00] intentionally cultivating relationships over the course?

Of the rest of your journey. 'cause you just never know when that person is gonna show up again in your life or where you might cross paths again. And to continually just, I think, pour into that. I think networking can kind of be this like dirty word, but I, I don't look at it like that. I look at it like, it's like your little mini community building, right?

You are choosing the people you wanna surround yourself by and pouring into them and they're bringing to you. And I think that. The more we do that, the more insulated we are from some of the like big changes. I think we'll see. I also, maybe in five years, we'll listen back to this, I'll be very, very wrong, but I tend to believe those that are out there saying that arts, culture, humanity, like those are actually places that you want to be.

And as AI continues to tumble forward because. Those are the types of things that can't be replaced. Human connection and like [00:26:00] building people up this level of support that is actually not going to be replaced by AI anytime 

Speaker 4: soon, 

Speaker 3: hopefully. So you might not actually be in as, uh, bad of a position as you think.

Let's see. 

Speaker 4: I kind of wanted to touch on your went about networking because one thing that I would love to talk about too is I feel one of the most beautiful aspects of this stage of my life is just. Being able to connect with so many people. I, again, going back to me being sort of an old soul, I've formed many relationships with the older folks in my community.

Um, and I have to say I've been able to experience is just hearing different people's life journeys. Having the people in my neighborhood who I can go to and we can talk about our favorite coffee table books. And talk about their lives and all the twists and turns it's made. Or going to the hive, which is where I work in, you know, meeting so many cool people who just had [00:27:00] this crazy, beautiful squiggly line path.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. 

Speaker 4: And it's made me feel better about my situation, better about my future. And it's just one of the most wonderful things is just being able to get to know people and being able to connect with people. I think everyone is open to connection. Recently I decided to message on LinkedIn, the head of global fundraising at UNICEF in Madrid.

Speaker 3: Amazing. 

Speaker 4: I'm had a meeting with him, he was totally open to meeting and now I'm starting a mentorship program with him virtually next month. What? That's amazing. Wow. That's incredible. And I also talked to, um, a guy who was pretty big with Greenpeace as well. She lives in Amsterdam. I think everyone's open to connecting and open to talking, and I think that's, it's just amazing hearing how people got to where they're, and just hearing how people see the world.

I would definitely say that's something that's stood out in this new phase of my life is just [00:28:00] meeting all of these new people and I've learned so much through people. 

Speaker 3: Yes. That is such a beautiful point. I think. I also love to believe for the most part. People do want to help and people want to support.

And we are connectors by nature, right? We need human connection and we thrive in community. And I actually am curious with your peers and folks that you have, you know, gone through school with like the amount of actual in-person relationship building versus being in front of a phone in relationship building, whether it's through social media or apps or whatever.

Is your age group part of kind of like the cusp of that? We hear a lot of the next generation, right? It's like the only way they socialize now is on their phone. They're not getting out and going out with friends. Everything is very, very similar. I'm curious if that touched into your age group or if you still, if you saw people were mostly interested in [00:29:00] live connection.

Speaker 4: I think. A lot of my generation does stick to the phone for communication, but I think COVID definitely had an effect on that. Yeah. As we're coming into our adulthood through COVID, but I think that everyone is striving for connection. There's this whole thing of third spaces. Mm-hmm. Where people are, you know, want to have a park.

Stares that they can sit on and chat with people. And everyone wants that desperately, I think in my generation, they just don't know where to find it. I mean, we have all these resources and, but everyone, it seems like everyone doesn't know where to find it. So I think that we're very much digitized in our relationships, but everyone wants to leave their phones and sort of go back to.

I don't know, I guess old school ways of communication, I don't know how to phrase it, but, um, everyone [00:30:00] or people are starting to create more clubs I see on social media, people having these baking clubs or cooking clubs, running clubs. So I think people are definitely trying to escape this bubble that COVID created.

And that gives me a lot of optimism. But it is definitely sort of. A curse on us, I would say is just how it's hard for a lot of people to escape just having digital relationships. I mean, I'm optimistic that we'll sort of go back to these third spaces, going to parks and going to bars. I think a lot of people are searching for that right now.

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so interesting. You know, it's hard not to put your own kind of imprint of your own experience onto the generations that are right. Like my experience is so different than. The next generations and to your generation. So I feel like it's, it's important for those of us that are a little further on in our careers to be asking this question, to understand how to relate better to the younger [00:31:00] generations that are coming into the workforce so that we can actually have dialogue about how we like to communicate.

Because sometimes there's just assumptions across the board. I 

Speaker 4: think 

Speaker 3: we all do in some ways, of course, but sometimes I think. Gen Z can kinda get this bad rap raffle. They just over there on their phone, they don't care. They don't think we get to have these blanket statements about an entire generation 

Speaker 4: to defend my fellow Gen Zs as well.

I think it's just really expensive too, to be out in 

Speaker 3: Yes. 

Speaker 4: Be in public social spaces because Ubers dinner drinks, it's, it's gonna set you back a few. And I think when life is just becoming so expensive for us as we're emerging. Adults. I think that's definitely sort of a barrier to, to being in person with that.

I hope that there is this climb to being in person, though I'm excited about it. I'm excited for all these opportunities to open up and people building these great opportunities to just be out in the [00:32:00] open. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. Do you think your generation's approach to career or life planning differs at all from previous generations, or can you speak to kind of what you've seen amongst.

Your peers as they're thinking about their next steps? 

Speaker 4: I would say from just, I mean, talking to my friend and then social media hustle culture is huge. 

Speaker 3: Like against hustle culture or for hustle culture 

Speaker 4: A little bit. Both. Both. Okay. 

Speaker 3: Okay. 

Speaker 4: I see online, you know, people have these intense routines in the morning, oh, I'm waking up at 5:00 AM 

Speaker 3: 4:00 AM and like doing an ice bath or whatever.

Speaker 4: And then I'm going to, um. Like, apply to 80 jobs and go to this networking conference, then go on a run, and then I have to, uh, start my own business by the age of 16. So much of social 

Speaker 3: or fire away to not find the, 

Speaker 4: that's, that's just a lot of my generation too are kind of, oh, you're not doing this right now.[00:33:00] 

Yeah. There's a lot of people that I think are like that and a lot of people, I have kind of half and half. Yeah, friend would say like, some friends, like, I have to be doing this, or I have to go do this. Um, oh, you're not doing this, then you, there's something wrong. I think there's a lot of that. Mm. But then I think there's also this remarkable side where people are just traveling everywhere, starting their own fashion companies and just kind of seeing what happens.

So I think there's. Both sides where people are sort of saying, you know, things will figure themselves out and I'm gonna sort of jump into this crazy lifestyle. And then there's some people that are like, I have to stay on this very rigid path in order to get what I want. I'm kind of a middle ground myself, and I think most people are a middle ground, but again, on social media, you see just [00:34:00] both ends of the spectrum.

And I'm like, do I wanna go and. Be a yoga teacher and like Myorca or dot wanna go and be the CEO of a business. I don't know. So it's just both. Both sides are constantly fighting, but I'm like, I can do both, I guess. 

Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, you are literally speaking into my soul, which I love. Please. Like I literally still feel like I hold both with such reverence and I hold both with such tension in 

Speaker 4: my own life.

Speaker 3: Do I want to kick ass and do I want to build something cool? Yes, yes, yes. Do I wanna also have family with Kids Door? Yes. Do I also wanna run off and like be an artist and teach yoga in wherever? Yes. All of those things, right? And so there is this kind of, it, it becomes more fun I think, later on where you're like, okay, so I don't, I do have to choose one to focus on for this moment.

Right? You can't. Choose all of [00:35:00] those things at once necessarily, but you can choose the thing that's calling to you most in that moment, and then find ways to infuse those other elements in your daily life. I might not get to run off and teach yoga in the woods, but I can find ways to bring that into my life in ways that feel meaningful.

And I have always been a very either or per se, like a very like, go all in on this one thing and you can't. Or if I can't do X for like X amount of time, then forget it. It's not worth it. I've learned over time, that's just not true. And if you allow yourself, okay, if I could only do yoga for 10 minutes on a Tuesday, like that's all right.

It's okay. It's still feeding me in some way. Or if it relates to creative projects. I was, I shared with you, I was an art major in college. Talk about getting to the end of your schooling and going, this is not what I'm meant to be doing Then. S me being by myself in a studio somewhere is not the jam. [00:36:00] But that did still lay a foundation of creation and creative thinking and building and seeing and whatnot.

And so for so long I told myself, well, if you don't have time to paint, if you can't get on your paint and paint for four hours a day, then you may as well not do anything. Well now it looks like co-creating a piece of something with my kids on a Saturday, which. Is not as idyllic as it sounds by way, but it, it is something, right, like it is seeing that those moments are just as important.

I think for me had been a really critical shift in my own life in these more recent years. Frankly, I wish I had given myself that allowance younger. Like, Hey, just 'cause you're not doing this thing all the time doesn't mean you can't still love it or can't still be a big part of your life. 

Speaker 4: I mean, that's definitely a battle that I was kind of picking with because I was a history major and art history minor.

I'm like, how do I incorporate something that I'm so [00:37:00] passionate about? One day I would love to do something for museums or public education history, but while I'm at this point, it's like, how can I. Incorporate things that I'm passionate about. It's like going to trivia or reading or going to museums or getting yourself into communities that do art or celebrate the things you love.

I think just being able to sprinkle that throughout your life is so helpful, and especially when, again, just going on this scary career path, navigating business. You need those, those little. Points of meditation almost. I feel like it's meditation to do the things you love and go back to your roots. 

Speaker 3: 100%.

Yes. It's rituals become anchors in our lives. That feel so important. Or when you think about if you could share anything that you're, like, let's say someone's [00:38:00] graduating. 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 3: Is there something you would share just based on the kind of time that you've spent post-college? 

Speaker 4: I would say try everything.

Speaker 3: Well 

Speaker 4: go and talk to people. Go and join clubs. Find out what's in your area, and find ways to explore your passion, to explore your career choices. Just try everything. Also, just don't think about what other people think about you. Just. Put that to the side and do what you love, explore, talk. It's okay to fail.

This is a lot of bits of advice, but 

Speaker 3: they're all very good. I'm like, I'm, I'm nodding my head like, I could use those. Yes, definitely that. 

Speaker 4: Every amazing cool person that I've talked to has had so many failures, so just find grace in your failures. Just try everything and, and I don't know, it's such a, a weird path.

I feel like I could say. [00:39:00] So many things, but I'm also kind of saying this to myself right now as well. I 

Speaker 3: was gonna say, we all need to hear it. I think the allowing ourselves to explore, to realize it does not have to, every answer has to be, 

Speaker 4: yeah. 

Speaker 3: That, and a dear friend of mine, we were chatting about what it means to try and sometimes not get to the thing, or maybe it looks a little different than you thought it.

We went through a really wild experience with our last employer together and. You know, we talk about resiliency and these kind of characteristics of what it means to just get up and keep going, get up and keep going. She's like, I feel like we really treat it kind of flippantly. Like, oh, you're so resilient.

She's like, that shit is hard earned. You have to have those difficult moments, build the muscle, right? And if you're just constantly staying safe, or you're constantly keeping yourself from trying something or giving it a shot. That you can't build up the resiliency muscle either. And then when [00:40:00] it does come down to fail, because we all will, then it's gonna feel a lot harder.

So I think like those little micro moments that you can find that way of building in that resilience as you keep navigating whatever 

Speaker 4: journey you're on. 

Speaker 3: Then when the big stuff hits, you're like, oh, I've been here, I've done something like this. I got it. Um, so at the end. Of every conversation, I typically ask women what building a legacy means to that.

But I would like to ask you, as you're thinking very early days, um, what do you want people to remember you for or feel, maybe not remember you for like in perpetuity, but like, I met you. Here's my perception of you. Here's how I felt after spending time with you. What's your hope for how folks leave and experience getting time with you?

Speaker 4: I want people to feel that they were heard, that I was able to build a [00:41:00] connection with them and able to help them. I always want to spread love, make people feel loved, and I feel like that's such a core of who I am and something that I would love to put in my career path as just making people know that those little things that they love, I want them to know that I heard that.

I want people to know. How a beautiful, I, I take a shot every time I say beautiful and amazing, but 

Speaker 3: yeah. 

Speaker 4: Of a person. They are. And I, that's just something that I would love to leave on people is just, you know, that they, that they're seen that their individuality shined, but that's the legacy I would like to leave.

Speaker 3: I love that, and I can feel that from you. I think that I'm so apparent and just. Even without saying much, it's just how you are present and it's how you questions and how you are aware of the moment. I think many times you are rushing [00:42:00] through it's very enthusiasm getting to the next thing, and it's really clear when you call across someone who is present in that moment, and that I think allows for people to feel seen by you.

Like there is a, um, a. Sense of calm, but like a sense of anchoring in the now that I have felt when I'm with you, that honestly, oh look, makes me a little nervous. I'm like, Joe, or really in, I feel like you are really connected to the person you're talking, which can feel like when you're so used to being around people that really are not looking to connect in that way, it could almost be like, woo.

First, I'm actually genuinely interested in this conversation and now I mean to differently this conversation. So I can just say I'm appreciate so much 

Speaker 4: you and I am 

Speaker 3: very sure that many people feel the same way. 

Speaker 4: Oh, thank you. Yeah, [00:43:00] 

Speaker 3: you're 

Speaker 4: the best. 

Speaker 3: You are the best. You're so amazing. I don't know if I told you this, but one of the women that I chatted with recently, I was telling.

And, and I was like, man, like she's just so cool and she's showing up with these incredible questions and she's so organized and the way she's thinking about what's next. And not to be organized. I don't mean it from a, if you're not an organized human than you're going anywhere, but it's more about the intention that you bring to.

Why you're asking the questions or how you're thinking about this moment. She's like, oh God, she'll be fine. She's like, she's this bitch. She's gonna be amazing. I do great things. I'm like, I know. You just, you come across the people that you just in five years, 10 years, I'm really, really, really excited to get to stay.

Like, oh man, I met her when she was just starting out and now look at this red thing she's doing, or this cool thing she's building or this impact she's having. So. I'm gonna be one of those people that is over here in the corner [00:44:00] watching it all unfold, and I feel really honored. 

Speaker 4: Well, you've definitely been a huge inspiration to me and I think you've been my fairy godmother.

Thank you. Yeah, 

Speaker 3: if I ever, ever wanted anything in my, it was that. I just appreciate you. Thank taking some time. And how can folks find you if they're interested in connecting? 

Speaker 4: You can contact me on my LinkedIn and, uh, my Instagram too is Celeste Maria with two as at the end. I love connecting with people, talking to people.

If you need volunteers for things, please reach out, um, to all the post-college people. You're doing great. 

Speaker 3: Amazing. I love it. So good to see you. 

Speaker 4: Great to see you too, Kristen. Thank you so much. 

Speaker 3: Bye.



Speaker: [00:45:00] Thank you so much for listening and spending some of your time with me here. I hope our conversation sparked some new ideas for you. If you enjoyed the episode, please make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's next. And if you're ready for even more tools and stories, head on over to belden strategies.com.

I share fresh insights, stories, and tools every week. Until next time, keep building, keep evolving. And remember you. Are kind of a big deal.