Rebuilding After the Thing You Built Disappears

What would you do if the thing you built your identity around vanished overnight?

Join me as I sit down with Channelle Charest - a former executive at a rapidly scaling, venture-backed tech company that imploded almost overnight. What followed wasn’t just a career shift. It was an identity reckoning.

Channelle and I shared that experience from the inside. We were leaders. We were deeply invested. We believed in what we were building. And then suddenly, it was gone.

This conversation isn’t about scandal. It’s about what happens after the collapse - when titles disappear, roles dissolve, and you’re left asking: Who am I without this?

We talk about tying your identity to your work, the grief of losing something you loved, the pressure to rebuild quickly, and the uncomfortable (but necessary) process of reevaluating what actually matters.

This is an honest conversation about ambition, burnout, code-switching, discipline, self-talk, and what it means to evolve - especially when evolution isn’t your choice.

You’ll Learn:

⭐ Why high achievers struggle to slow down (even when they need to)
⭐ The cost of tying your worth to performance
⭐ How to rebuild after professional loss
⭐ Why discipline can be more powerful than hustle
⭐ What legacy really means beyond achievement

Key Insights:

Identity Can Get Over-Enmeshed with Work:
When your vocation becomes your entire identity, losing it can feel like losing yourself.

Success Isn’t the Same as Alignment:
You can have impact, money, community, and influence - and still need to reevaluate who you are within it.

Discipline > Overdrive:
Growth sometimes means restraining your natural strengths instead of overusing them.

Women Code-Switch More Than They Realize:
Many female leaders feel pressure to shift identities between work and home - something men are often culturally exempt from.

Legacy Isn’t Empire-Building:
It’s laying bricks that raise the baseline for someone else.

Timestamps:

[00:00:00] – Introduction: When the thing you built disappears
[00:04:00] – Working together in a high-growth tech company
[00:08:00] – Identity, performance, and authenticity
[00:17:00] – The implosion and the grief that followed
[00:22:00] – Survival mode vs. reflection mode
[00:27:00] – Rebuilding your identity from scratch
[00:30:00] – Choosing values over prestige
[00:36:00] – Discipline, overdrive, and self-awareness
[00:44:00] – Inflection points and evolution
[01:04:00] – Redefining legacy

Resources and Links:

Find host Kristin Belden on LinkedIn or at BeldenStrategies.com
Sign up for more conversations and insights at BeldenStrategies.com/newsletter

Connect with Channelle Charest on LinkedIn

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, follow the show, and leave a review. And if you’re navigating a season of professional transition or identity shift, join my newsletter at BeldenStrategies.com/newsletter for more conversations about leadership, reinvention, and building what’s next.

Transcript

Speaker 2: [00:00:00] What would you do if everything you'd built your identity around vanished overnight? So many of us tie who we are to our job titles, our companies, our climb up the ladder. Many times we don't stop to ask if we're even climbing the right mountain until we're forced to today on kind of a big deal, I'm talking with Chanel Shere, a dear friend.

I shared an unbelievable journey with going from executives at a rapidly scaling VC backed tech company to at all imploding overnight. What came next wasn't just about rebuilding our careers, it was about figuring out who we were. Beneath all the titles, we talk about how to separate your identity from work.

How to know when it's time to let go and why. Sometimes the biggest gift is being forced to start over. If you've ever felt trapped by your own success, wondered if you're on the right path or just need permission to redefine what achievement means to you. This one's for you. This is about building something real, not just impressive.

It's packed full of goodies, so let's get into [00:01:00] it.



Speaker 4: Hi friend. 

Speaker 3: Hello. 

Speaker 4: How are you? 

Speaker 3: You know, living the dream as they 

Speaker 4: we can to, we can totally pretend like we haven't been talking for an hour before this. That's 

Speaker 3: gonna do, that's we're gonna pretend like we didn't come on and instantly just catch up for a hi. 

Speaker 4: We have nothing to say to each other 'cause we just caught up for an hour.

So there's nothing 

Speaker 3: less 

Speaker 4: to shared, 

Speaker 3: but we're both very like talker. We're we're talkers. So 

Speaker 4: yes, 

Speaker 3: we'll never run up out of time, you know what 

Speaker 4: I mean? This is true. We're talkers. And I would say actually, interestingly, we're also both listeners, which doesn't always go hand in hand. I think that like we both can talk, we could talk.

All day long. 

Speaker 3: Yes. 

Speaker 4: But I could also just sit here and listen to you talk all day long and be just as happy. 

Speaker 3: Yes. Hashtag same. Happy to listen, also. Happy to listen. Happy to talk. Yes. 

Speaker 4: We 

Speaker 3: were Thanks for podcasts. [00:02:00] 

Speaker 4: True. Yes. Yes, yes. In fact, we were just reflecting 'cause we got into a conversation about nuance and middle ground and what can sometimes feel like these extremely polarizing conversations.

And we, I sparked a memory that we years ago had said we should have a podcast that I think we were gonna call it middle ground or something like that. Yeah, 

Speaker 3: I love it. Yeah. There's always room for grit. 

Speaker 4: Um, so there's so many things that I wanted to remember to share about who you have been to me. Um, 'cause part of this too is right, I get to introduce women that I have either been influenced by or that I respect or admire in some way.

And when I think about you, as I started to write some notes, I was like. Chanel slash chan, she also has other fun nicknames. Um, you literally defy definition, like you are one of those humans who has such a like, creative, unique way of seeing things. And the way [00:03:00] you move through the world is so incredible and beautiful.

And I think when you try and like box that into one specific way of talking about someone, it just doesn't work. So we're just gonna have to go without a perfect definition of who Chan is, which I actually think works for you because you don't like to be defined in one way. Anyhow, so, and as soon as you are, you'll find a way to buck against that in some way.

That she is truly one of the most remarkable women I've ever known. Creative, intuitive, wicked smart, uh, compelling. And we've known each other now for, I, I can't remember. I was trying to figure it out and I was like, I think it's been probably almost 10, maybe not 10 years, but something close to that 

Speaker 3: 2017.

So 

Speaker 4: why are you so good at that? I literally, you could have told me it was like 20, like, I don't know, 10. And I've been like, yeah. So yes, [00:04:00] Chan and I have been through many iterations of our career, our lives together in our latest like actual professional iteration. I was the COO to her EVP. And so she, if you can picture the best boss you could ever hope and dream for, like your friend who's actually also your boss, which I could see it wouldn't work for everyone, but definitely worked for us for me anyways.

Me 

Speaker 3: too, me too. 

Speaker 4: We have not worked together in a professional way for two years now. But one of the things I miss most about working together is, is this like sitting down to chat and have these one-on-ones and to learn from each other and to share with each other. And I think one of the things I learned from you over those years was how to actually just sit in the present when I was always looking for like, but what's next?

And like, what's happening? And, [00:05:00] and we were working for a very, very, very fast growing venture-backed technology company. And Chand has had this wild way of being like, but we're in this, we're in this right now, so let's deal with this right now. And one of the other great things I've learned from her was how to actually, I don't even wanna say manage people.

Where we worked, we talked about supporting people because it was really never a, I'm your boss, you're my staff. There was never language like that. It was actually quite intentional that it was. I am the COO that supports legal, hr, et cetera. Because truly that was the way we thought about leadership, which I think I have never seen anywhere else.

I don't know that I've experienced it any, anything even remotely close to that way of thinking about leadership. But I remember her looking at me one day and saying, okay, so you're gonna be going from your chief of staff role to COO role, and it's gonna be really fucking hard in ways that you don't know.

It's gonna be hard. [00:06:00] I was like, no, it's, I mean, I know it's gonna be hard, but like you're like, no, no, no. You're gonna go from your tasks and your to-do lists and your execution and all these things to, you're not gonna be doing any of that anymore, and you are going to be managing people, which means you're not gonna know what the hell you did in your day, but you're gonna feel like you did a lot.

And I remember that so well, and I think so many people don't actually. Fully recognize that as they're moving into more leadership positions. So that is a giant, giant, giant learning from, for me, from you, there's so many more things I could say about who you are and who you've been to me, but that's not what this show is about.

Speaker 3: That's a may hour for me. 

Speaker 4: It's about you. It's about uplifting stories of women who I think are amazing. 

Speaker 3: But 

Speaker 4: I will start with, I think [00:07:00] one of my favorite things that I have found about you has been you have an ability to share your story and own your story in a way that is really powerful and really clear.

And we have really similar backgrounds. We both have an arts background. We both moved into working in restaurants. We were both executive assistants moved into kind of like squiggling our way through, you know, the ranks to eventual executive C-suite positions. And I think there were years where I felt a little confused about my own journey and like how to talk about the importance of each of those stages and not feel like any pieces were less worthy.

Likely because I had many years of needing external validation.

You, you actually showed me, I still have such vivid memories of you sharing your story in a way that felt so honest and true and compelling. [00:08:00] And I guess that leads to my first question, which is. Have you always had such a strong sense of self? Has that been something that has been inherent in you or something that came along over the years of your journey?

Speaker 3: Well, my, my mom would tell you that since I was two years old. She looked at me and said, and I don't know what to do with this child because I was so independent in nature and had my own vision for how I thought the world should work. Um, but I do think that, no, the answer is no. I'm constantly evaluating myself against what is authentic versus what is performative and what is expected versus what is genuine and how do I find the best.

Mix of all of those things because being a hundred percent authentic in a professional environment, 

Speaker 4: not always gonna work. Not always gonna work. You know, 

Speaker 3: idea. Like not the best. Like, it's not the smartest move sometimes, you know, [00:09:00] being, not being a hundred percent authentic with your people, the people you love and that you share life with.

Absolutely. But there is a, a way to find that balance that is going to be the forever struggle. I have always found that the power, we'll, we'll say the word testimony 'cause it's pretty relevant in terms of you grow up in a very, um, like, you know, Christian background kind of vibe where it's just the story of your evolution, whatever those stories of evolution that happened, we have several of them over our lifetime.

But the power of your testimony, the way that you use. That story to be present in the moment. And then also to, I think nine times out of 10, for me, it's about making people feel seen and valued. So sharing that as vulnerable, being vulnerable and identifying yourself means that other people then can do that reciprocally.

So that's always been a goal. And I think it's more selfish than anything. It's [00:10:00] because I want to find the most authentic way to experience life. Yeah. And so I'm constantly putting that out there. Like, everyone's gonna be authentic. Like, we're all gonna find this, you know, this center ground. And so as a professional, that is the learning curve, right?

Yeah. You can do that in, in regular life. But learning how to do that as a professional, as a leader, as someone who not only represents an organization, but also is managing people and therefore educating them on how to represent themselves within an organization. It's a dance. So I wouldn't say it was organic, but I will say it is ever evolving and very important to me.

Yeah. So that's probably why it comes up so frequently. 

Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that. I think that, you know, for me, there were years where I would almost shy away from like, I'll just use one example and I don't want anyone to think that there is anything wrong with this position. It's a great position to have. But I think because I was still trying to kind of sort through [00:11:00] where I found my own worth and power that when I said executive assistant, for me, that felt like it's over here.

But I think to look back at the foundation that's set by holding some of these roles and honoring what those roles are and how important they are. But I. I never got the sense from you that you looked at it with that lens, and maybe I'm wrong, but I felt like you, so you can tell me if I was wrong. The way you shared it always felt like, yeah, and this is part of like what makes me who I am.

And never felt you shied away from the pieces that were the building blocks to get you to where you are. Does that resonate? 

Speaker 3: No, I think I take a lot of pride in, I take a lot of pride in the story. I take a lot of pride in the reflection. I am horrible at reflecting. I'm horrible at it. I am very disappointed in my existence.

Nine times out of 10, I'm very like, oh, [00:12:00] this is not high enough. Far enough, big enough. It's not enough. It's never enough. Yeah. And so when I do get to be reflective, when I'm given the opportunity to share, when I am forced to kind of put that story together, I'm so appreciative and I'm so. Grateful because every role, regardless of the level, regardless of the authority, regardless of the dignity of position, according to our societal concept.

Exactly, 

Speaker 4: yes. 

Speaker 3: Well, regardless of that, that is what helped me understand how to manage almost every type of human. One of my greatest skill sets that I now feel super confident in is that anyone from any background, I feel confident I can work with. Yeah. I feel confident I can find a way to coach, teach, or evaluate authentically and see if they're the right fit for the job.

And that's only because I've sat in those seats. I've done that work, I've shared that experience. I've seen what it takes to [00:13:00] go from that to, you know, an EVP and then back again. Right. And so how you exist in that is. Is really important. And so I would say yes, it's a hundred percent authentic because nine times 10, I'm like, uh, like why am I not farther ahead of myself in this game?

Yes. And then you look at the back and you're like, oh no, I've been leveling up every step of the way, and now I get to acknowledge that. So it is genuine. It's just not always at the top of mind when I talk about myself, when I look at others. It's very easy for me to do when I look at myself. Harder evaluation.

Speaker 4: I think that's, yeah, typical, right? We were chatting even before this chat, how. The, the most pressure we get is generally from ourselves. Like as I branch out on my own. I'm more crazy now, like, because now I am my own boss, right? So I am being very hard on myself all the time. Like, am I doing enough? Am I showing up enough?

Am I building enough [00:14:00] and am, and I think the answer will always likely be probably no, sadly, and, and that's what we're constantly in that tension of what is enough. I've done a lot of work over the last few years of trying to get better at being a little quieter and it's, I think sometimes we can conflate hustle culture with, if you're not, you can still be driven and you can still be ambitious and you can still be working really hard without that having to be the umbrella feeling behind it.

You can still have that inner drive that keeps you going, that keeps you striving. But I think sometimes we then say, well then you. That must show up as you're working 90 hours a week. Well, no, because I don't ever wanna do that again, ever again. I now know that I won't do that to myself. But it doesn't mean that that internal pressure isn't still there.

Right. 

Speaker 3: A hundred percent. And it's kind of weird because [00:15:00] you control the dial. And so I think we were talking about that as well, where you have full autonomy to remove that pressure. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Speaker 3: But that is the work, that is the genuine effort in terms of whatever your practices are outside of your occupation and where you consider your kind of success metrics to be and all of those kinds of things.

It's what is the work outside of that? That allows you to stay grounded and reasonable. Mm-hmm. And you know, and very conscious of what you're actually bringing to the world outside of just maybe that bubble that is your vocation. Because we are so easily defined by what we execute in our work life that, you know, and especially, I'm not a mom, but I know lots of moms, and the battle of that balance is one of the most insane things I've ever seen.

Yeah. 'cause they both hold this intense value. 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 3: And even if you don't have that maybe [00:16:00] obligation to other human. Beings, little ones, but you have that obligation to yourself as a human being to value just the inherent existence of who you are outside of that work bubble. And so how do you cultivate that authentically?

A lot of the times it's by removing the pressure and being okay with like, oh yeah, if I'm not working and whatever I'm doing when I'm not working has just as much value to me as what I do when I am working. And 

Speaker 4: 100%, 

Speaker 3: you know, 

Speaker 4: yes. I think that we, I wish we taught that more. Honestly. I wish that were something that we're, you know, infused in the way we think about what it means to grow in our careers because.

For me anyways. It was never part of the conversation. It was just, you keep building, you keep growing, you keep pushing, you keep striving. And the real hack is, well, if you can just quiet yourself for five minutes. It's amazing what you'll find in there. [00:17:00] It's amazing. You know what knowledge you already have intuitively, if you'll just take a minute and shut up and listen to yourself.

But I think we are not, that is not a typical practice for many. And I'm curious if this, so, okay, Chan and I went through something together two years ago that is not on many people's life. Bingo cards is the way we were kind of saying it at the time. Um, I'm, I'm going here now because of what we were just talking about, which is.

Having our identity so connected to the work we do to a title, to a whatever. We were chan even more than I, she had been building this company alongside a company she cared deeply about alongside people she cared even more about. And, um, let's just say it, everything basically imploded overnight two summers ago.

And there was a [00:18:00] lot of grieving involved in that. There was a lot of trying to kind of feel our way through the dark. Where, how do you go from being this kind of like high flying, fast moving executive of a company that you care so, so much about to literally the next day going? None of that exists. The title doesn't exist, the company doesn't exist.

It's as if it never existed other than the ghost of it, which we still have to contend with. And for me. So much of the discomfort over the last two years in kind of moving through that has been acknowledging how much I was tied to my identity as a professional as a person that was, you know, I'd like to think was having a nice good influence in this company.

Right. So there was, when I look back at some of my most powerful moments and memories as it relates to my career, it's a lot of [00:19:00] what we experienced together over the three and a half years of working there together. And I'm curious for you how that looked outside of the emotional component of it.

Outside of the, like we are, we are literally losing something. It's not to be dramatic. It did feel like a death in many ways. And I think. That piece on identity though. I'm so curious. 'cause I think everybody kind of moved through that in their own way. Some people have landed now two years later in a much different place.

Some folks are still moving through it. So that's a very long-winded way of asking you, Jan, how, how did you kind of navigate the identity part, um, from where you were with the company to kind of where you're at now? 

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's such a small question, such an easy one for me. 

Speaker 4: I just, I figured with few softballs at the beginning, just 

Speaker 3: I, my god.

Alright, we're getting, we're getting real serious here. Got it. Check. [00:20:00] Um, so, so identity. My friends who have known me for 20 plus years, they will tell you identity is my. Core driver in life, like my own identity? Like what is it that is so deeply true to who I am that is so relevant to how I exist in the world?

That is my forever constant pursuit. I will never, I think I will never be done. So because of the nature of the work from work together, um, my identity was fully enveloped in that work. It was easy. It was easy to be because it was about people. It was about changing the world. It was about all the things I cared about.

In one physical place and being able to, um, you know, work there, like, have that be my actual job, while also creating all of these things that felt really meaningful. Why wouldn't that be my whole identity? Right. Why wouldn't it be, it's everything I [00:21:00] ever thought I wanted in one place. Why wouldn't I sell my soul?

Of course, I would like, like I would pay the tax, like 

Speaker 4: whatever the Kool-Aid has been drunk much, all of it. We, we pounded that Kool-Aid from the fire hose. 

Speaker 3: Totally. I mean, at one point you could say I was stirring the Kool-Aid for others. You know what I mean? Like, I, I didn't know what was in it, but I was definitely the girl.

Like, let's mix that shit up. Like that's good, you know? And I had an IV drip I was doing. And, um, and so yeah, when it ended, a lot ended and there was a lot of significant loss in the year prior to the end of the organization with, um, real death and loss there with friends, and then loss of what felt like the ability to do it the way that we wanted to.

And so it started, you could see some of the cracks, right? And without knowing the full context of what was happening in the background. I'm a very also driven, committed [00:22:00] person, and so I just was like, well, I'm either gonna go down with the ship or we're gonna ride it, and, and this is, this is great. Like, we'll just keep going.

And I, I do believe now that it had to end for a number of reasons. And that's probably a whole different conversation around, you know, I 

Speaker 4: was gonna say, I don't think I've heard that one yet. I've not 

Speaker 3: heard that one version of why I think it had to end. I do actually think it did. And so there is an element of, of course, I didn't believe that two years ago.

I was like, this is the worst. Like this is apocalypse now. Like we have in it, we are doing this. And so yeah, the last two years have been coming to terms with. With, with really putting my identity at risk is what it felt like. Oh. Was putting my identity at risk. And so 

Speaker 4: for, for yourself, you mean like your own?

Speaker 3: For myself, yeah. For myself. Only for myself. I will say that it has everything to do [00:23:00] with just me as a person. Not necessarily 

Speaker 4: what other folks are putting on you. Yeah, 

Speaker 3: exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Everyone's journey is different. Like you're saying. Everyone's exposure is different, but for me, I had put my identity at risk.

I have literally allowed it to be completely covered by this one thing. And none of us are one thing, none of us are driven by one thing. And if you are. Kind of more leaning towards bigger than you things, right? Like I have a faith that's very important to me. I believe in things that are bigger than me, but I also believe that like no one person and no one entity, no one physical thing that we have on this planet should possess like overwhelming power.

Hashtag Jeff Bezos. Yeah. Like it's not cool, you know, like it's not cool. But when the paradigm shifts and there's no longer balance, and that's what it felt like was I had allowed myself to believe in one thing. When I [00:24:00] inherently know as a human, it's never one thing. There's never one thing that solves all the problems and is the whole answer in the same way that when you choose a partner or a spouse, like they cannot be your whole world.

You still have to have. People and influences and supports that belong to you that are separate from that person. And so I just, yeah, I, I was like, Nope, I'm all in for this one thing. 

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 3: And so when that one thing literally disintegrated mm-hmm. It was a complete rebuild, I had to think about what do I actually care about?

Like, what is important to me? What really matters? What do I wanna do now with my life? And of course. You don't get there right away. Right. Because at first you're like, I just need to pay my fricking rent. Like I care what I'm doing. Like, like I'm crying every day. I'm seeing my therapist twice a week like this was to, and then, you know, then you're talking to the FBI and [00:25:00] like whatever, whatever comes your 

Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes.

We're, we're getting legal counsel. I remember sitting out on that porch right there talking to a lawyer, going, how much do I need to be concerned given my role in this company? And yes, there are things that you, yeah, to your point, there is this survival moment. 

Speaker 3: Yes. 

Speaker 4: Which is, I think when I look back on it, honestly, probably a good six months after I can honestly almost look at these pockets of time and go, six months was just utter devastation and survival and sadness and you know, all of these things that Mel Robbins talks about this, and I'm sure she got it from someone else that.

Talks about this, but you cannot create, you cannot do anything. When you are in that mode, there's, it is not possible. Your brain cannot get out of just protection. And so you're literally just trying to day by day, inch by inch, mile by mile, [00:26:00] keep one foot in front of the other. And so it's so interesting.

We're having this conversation now two years later because we were able to have that and then the regrowth starts to happen and to see how that starts to show up in your life and my life and friends, we care about lives. It's so interesting 'cause I think those of us that were willing started asking those questions and I the what am I?

What am I doing? What am I meant for? Like what is happening? Yes. But I say all the time now, that is the biggest gift. As much I, I would have never asked for things to happen the way they did. I now look at that time and go, I would've never stopped to ask myself those questions. I just wouldn't have, and I would've been just fine.

I would've been a super happy glam. But now that I've asked myself those questions and continue to ask myself those questions, it's almost like I'm getting to [00:27:00] know myself all over again. And it's like, oh, hey, friend, like, I think I've known you, but I don't remember you. Like, who are you? And it's, it, it's really bizarre.

I don't know if it has been for you, but it has been very bizarre for me in many ways. Also really cool in many ways that also uncomfortable. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. I, I mean, times tone, I think like. For me too. I've rebuilt my life. I joke, but it's not a joke I've rebuilt. This is my third iteration of rebuilding my life.

Genuinely from an identity, from a relationship, from a, um, financial, like significant. I've just, I've experienced it more than most. I do feel like I am used to it in a way that is weird. And so I'm with you in that. It's odd. You're kind of like, why am I like, like why am I okay with this in some capacity?

Why am I okay with this [00:28:00] and why am I not, you know? 'cause some people were so mad Yes. And so angry and so hateful and so, and. With every right to feel everything that they felt, but I just didn't feel that. And people were really looking at me being like, I can't believe you're not just so mad and so angry at that.

This is how, and I'm like, you know, no, man. It feels like there was a lot of really hard stuff that no one saw. 

Speaker 4: That's true. Yes. 

Speaker 3: Was cool. People like it and not, and in the sense that it was really, really hard and we were chasing these things that were really, really important and doing it the best way we knew how, but it was devastating.

So you have to look at the cost right. Analysis and say like, what? And so I do think that, yes, I would've never evaluated, I would've ridden myself into the ground that, oh, oh yes, I need anything. 

Speaker 4: Yes, yes. I would tell people, you have to drag my dead body out this door because I'm never going anywhere else.

Right there. When you [00:29:00] find a place that. There's like a quadrant from that coaching program I went through recently where it was like impacts, uh, balance wealth or like finances and I'm gonna forget the fourth one. But the woman who began the program basically said, if you ever find yourself with all four, don't ever leave.

'cause that's not possible. Right. In, in fact, one of the first exercises was pick the top two 

Speaker 3: for your life 

Speaker 4: right now because you have to be able to put a few of these things on the back burner while you work on the things that feel most important or most critical in your life at that moment. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Speaker 4: And I remember thinking, wow, we really had all four, like we really, really did.

And so it is really, really easy to imagine yourself in that forever. Why would you ever want it to end? 

Speaker 3: Why would you ever wanna go? Right. Like, doesn't make any sense. Mm-hmm. But I'm sure. It's not possible. Like that's the thing is it's not possible. And I [00:30:00] 

Speaker 4: think we're, we're touching on the woo woo version of why this had to end.

So you 

Speaker 3: have to go there a little bit. It's a woo a little bit. But what I think is, is interesting in where I'm at now, like what I'm doing currently and the journey that it took to get there is I reverted back to working in human services with adults with disabilities doing art therapy because that was like, okay, if I'm not gonna do this amazing thing and make this good money and like whatever, then I'm at least gonna find but my heart center again and make sure that I understand.

Like what I'm on this earth to do and provide real value to real people with real problems. And you know, so I had to go through this like existential crisis. And in doing that I was like, Nope. Like, like, yes, I love these humans and I love this work, but I need more than this. I need more for my brain. I need more stability for myself.

I need to find something that feels more grounded and balanced. And so it was a [00:31:00] really helpful like measurement tool of, yes, this feeds the, like I'm contributing to the world in a very serious way. And I, there's no question of the value add that I'm putting in to my team, to our clients, to the work.

Mm-hmm. Period. Full stop. But that wasn't enough. That was just having that one threshold was not sustainable. And. I think it helped me evaluate, okay then what if I had to pick, you know, two out of the four? Right? Like what would I choose? And I'm still waffling. I couldn't tell you what those two actually are, but I do think that it led me to at least be more open with my myself.

Mm-hmm. What is really true to me? What is most important to me? What do I actually care about? Right? And that's like, you don't get that opportunity very often as an result to really evaluate what you care about and really evaluate what you think is gonna make you [00:32:00] happy and what do you think is gonna be the most contributing factor.

And so I do think for that reason, it was a good stepping stone, a good moment. People who worked the same career for like 30 years, I don't know those people, but they are out there, right. Who stay at the same job for like a long time. It's hard to be able to evaluate yourself like that or even feel like you have the privilege of doing so.

'cause I do think it's a privilege. I think it's a privilege. Privilege to get to choose 

Speaker 4: absolutely 

Speaker 3: what I care about. Right? 

Speaker 4: Oh, a hundred. Yes, yes, yes. Acknowledging that a hundred percent. I think, you know, there, there's a, um, there's this interesting kind of moment that I am in with some of the women that I've been chatting with, where it's like middle aged, right?

We're all kind of, of a generation where it was maybe we didn't ask ourself these questions very often. [00:33:00] Um, and the longer you go without asking them, the harder it can feel to find your way back to maybe the core of who you are. I mean, I have been. Of course, as part of my journey, I, I had to take every strengths, assessment, everything to see, 

Speaker 3: that's right, that's right.

Some tests. Tell me what I need to be 

Speaker 4: doing. Oh, my, tell me who I'm, help me understand this. 

Speaker 3: I You didn't go to a palm reader, did you? 

Speaker 4: I, I mean, it's not beyond me. I'm not beyond me. I 

Speaker 3: could be a good move. I'm just saying it could be 

Speaker 4: good. Yes. I have friends that are mediums and I'm all about all of it. So I all about all of it.

I think I had to get back to though, not just like where am I going, but. Back to the core of what makes me who I am, which sounds so ridiculous, but I think I was so, I was so in touch with who I feel very in touch with, who I am as a person, like how I show up in the world, who I am to my family, who I am to my [00:34:00] friends, who I'm to my community.

But from my work perspective, from a career perspective, I had really not ever stopped to ask if I was climbing the right mountain, because I was just fucking climbing the mountain. Like, let's go. Let's go to the top as fast as we can go. And it was never with any consideration of whether I even wanted to be climbing at all.

And so sometimes I think you find yourself in these really incredible places. The view's beautiful. I would never, ever, ever, you know, take that back and all of that is now the foundation for asking yourself. Okay, but then how do you take that forward? Because I think so much of. My work lately has been right at that crux of, okay, so how do you get clear on what no longer serves and let some of that go and then double down on the things that do and let that help you go forward.

Because I think we can also tend to kind of throw the baby out with the bath water, similar to what you were [00:35:00] saying earlier, but in this instance it's, oh, well I've learned these things about myself a lot for me was, I'm much more in the like ideation strategy, relationship building space. And I had made myself a very good executor and there's nothing wrong with that, but I was really fighting against a lot of, some of what my just more natural strengths are in some ways.

And so to get tapped back into that felt really important to me. But it doesn't mean I now need to go, oh, I would, I should have never done any of that. It was all bullshit, right? Like, no, all of that is still really important. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Speaker 4: But it is all getting clear about it, and I think it's that part that feels really hard is.

Clarity around it. Um, have you been surprised by anything that you've found out about yourself in the 

Speaker 3: everything? Probably everything. If you just wanna put it in like one word, it's everything. Um, truly, truly, and I mean, it could be right? This whole [00:36:00] universe of collision, right where I turned 40 this year or two years out, I started the current job that I have now, I started in January of this year.

And so it really, all of it feels very new. It just feels like, oh my gosh, I know me and I know who I am and how I exist in the world, but there's this opportunity now to really take all of those learnings, all of that knowledge, all of those experiences, and kind of put it together in some semblance of a weird thing that could be useful going forward that could.

Eliminate some of the unhealthy patterns that could project me into a much more holistic and peaceful place, because I do think peace is important. I do think us finding our own way of sitting in peace allows for that to perpetuate in the universe. Right? So that's more woo woo stuff that you know.

Mm-hmm. So the current job I have now, um, [00:37:00] it's is really wonderful. I work for a company called Solomon Advising, and we do consultant work. You're in this consultancy space and so am I, but there is some benefit to the experiences that we've had that can then be shared and hopefully used for the better, right?

That people do not have to go through the same trials to get the benefit of what we have learned and how we can help contribute. But my boss, her name is Jen Gry, she's awesome. I was best friends with her sister in high school, so I've known her since we were kids, and she had actually tried to recruit me the last couple of years before the crash, and I, oh, 

Speaker 4: I didn't know that.

I don't 

Speaker 3: think I knew that. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. This company, she's, she's had a few, um, and so this one has been around for 10 years, and over the last five, she's really been trying to recruit me and I, and I told her like, I'm really gonna go down with this shit. Like, there's nothing you could say or do that would make me wanna jump, even though I kind of have this feeling.

It's, it's pretty gnarly. It's pretty gnarly. Like the, we're 

Speaker 4: going down, like the Titanic. You thought [00:38:00] Titanic was that just wait? 

Speaker 3: Yeah. Literally. I'm like, no, I'm that dude playing the, you know, whatever. Like, I got this guy, so I'm just gonna cello this out, you know, like that's gonna be me. And I'm like the 

Speaker 4: one hanging onto the edge, like just by the skin of my teeth, trying to like, recruit everybody to like, still Hold on.

Still hold on. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. Real though. So we all know our role on the Type 10 and, uh, and so then I went and worked in human services for almost a year. I think Jen is a good leader in that she was observing kind of my transition out of Bitwise and letting me have the space to do the work of my own journey before talking to me again about do you think this is the right time to come work for me?

And when we sat down and had a very authentic conversation about the experience, I said, you know, I really do enjoy the friendship aspect, like working with people that I feel like are my friends. And I [00:39:00] know that is like the antithesis of corporate America in that this is not your family. This is your I know, right?

Yeah. But I'm an emotional human and I'm people oriented. And so I, that is of value to me and to trust myself enough to say that is enough of value to me that I will, uh, sacrifice other things because I absolutely the benefit. And so when we were talking, you know, she wasn't really ready to bring me on.

As far as like where the company stage was at with what we wanna build together, she's like, but if your gut is telling you you're gonna sacrifice maybe the position, maybe the initial pay, maybe we're not quite ready for someone of your skillset to be here. We're not big enough yet for you. If you're willing to come in and kind of understand that, that it's gonna suck a little bit and be uncomfortable, like, I still think it would be a [00:40:00] good fit, I still think this could be a good place for you.

And so it was a ton of sacrifice for both of us. It was a, Hey, I'm betting on you. You're betting on me. There's value in that for me. And so I do think that. In this space, I'm still evaluating, right? I don't know when this ends. I don't know. I don't 

Speaker 4: think it ever does, unfortunately. Yes, it's, it's exhausting.

It's exhausting. I keep wondering when it stops. 

Speaker 3: Do you ever just get to, oh, that's okay. 

Speaker 4: Like, be cool. I'm chill. 

Speaker 3: I don't think there's an arrival in our future. I don't 

Speaker 4: think so either. No. 

Speaker 3: Um, but she, because of her own background, experience, what she's done as a business owner and someone who develops, you know, concepts and things like that.

It wasn't hard for her to understand my experience and it also wasn't hard for her to say, now take what you know and use it. Mm. I think sometimes you just need someone who's able to look at your [00:41:00] experience and not think it's crazy. 'cause you do tell people like, oh yeah, I had to, I, you know, the FBI came to my apartment and they knocked and then I had to go talk to them and I had, you know, I have a hundred thousand dollars worth of legal fees because I had to hire someone from SF who really knows how to do this.

And that's not something people hear and go right. Oh yeah. Oh 

Speaker 4: cool. Yes, I wanna take that on. Yeah, 

Speaker 3: part of the game, bro. Sorry that happened being part of the game, but when, when everything was happening at Bitwise, Jen was one of the first people to call me and say, Hey, do you have a good lawyer? So like she already, oh, I love her tracking things over time.

And I feel like I remember doing that for people at Bitwise, right? There were people I would track with through their career to usher them into what we were doing. And so I'm seeing that, I'm seeing that leadership in her of this ushering. And again, that's something I value above a lot of other things is someone who's willing to guide and usher and lead in a way that is supportive and [00:42:00] honest, but also pragmatic and, and feels true.

So I think it is taught me to be a little bit more shrewd, which, you know, I'm a pretty like, yeah, that sounds great. Let's do it kind of human, which is so fun. But maybe I could use my brain for other things, you know, and be a little bit more critical of the experience, because now I know, I, now I know something I didn't know before.

Speaker 4: Mm. 

Speaker 3: And making space to shift a little bit into being a little bit more shrewd, maybe a little bit more reserved, maybe a little bit more calculated. Right. Uhhuh, where those things felt inauthentic to who I was. I was like, no, I'm, I'm the down girl. Like, I'm like, let's do it. Let's, let's 

Speaker 4: go. Yes. 

Speaker 3: Build it.

Let's run. That sounds cool. I love this. I love that. And no matter what, I will make it work. And instead, now it's like, yes, no matter what, I can make it work. But should I? 

Speaker 4: But will I? 

Speaker 3: Yeah. Do I need to, like, is that, is that the right thing for me? Is that the right thing for the organization? [00:43:00] Or should I take some time?

Should I take a beat? Should I think about it? Should I, you know, so I do. I do see. The evolution of self. But it is hard to accept when you mature a little bit and realize that some of your patterns maybe don't serve you anymore even though they're great. Right? Even though they're, even though they're desirable, even though they make you stand out in the crowd and choosing effectively to do the thing that you think is actually more authentic, more responsible, more honest, that may not get you to the top as quick as you wanna get there.

And like that is, that is literally my kryptonite. 'cause I just, that is all the time.

Speaker 4: You and me both. Yes. I get it. I feel, um, I don't know that I've ever heard it shared in such a way because I think. It's one thing to say, okay, [00:44:00] I recognize there are maybe patterns that I've had that no longer serve actually say they can also potentially do harm in this new iteration or this next chapter.

I don't know that I've heard it spoken that well, and I think because it's also, I think there's some, there's one nuance here, which is it, it's still a genuine superpower to go, I know I have this in me because I think in the other iteration you're talking about, you might not even, you might know it, but you haven't harnessed it yet.

It's, it's part of who you are. It's part of how you operate. It's part of how you strategize, but it's like unwieldy. It's like the first time you have access to something that you, that's maybe a little too big for what you're able to hold and then. As you grow and as we have these experiences and as we have to continue to find ways to be resilient, you start to sharpen that a little bit and hone it and it becomes something then that you hold instead of something that [00:45:00] it holds you in some ways, I think.

Right? And so that's really interesting. And now I'm gonna be thinking about that a lot for myself. What is that? What's the thing? What's the thing that I didn't have control over that maybe is still part of who I am? Um, yeah, I don't know the answer to that yet, but I'll be thinking about it for sure. 

Speaker 3: It takes time.

And then you look at it and you're like, no, that could, no, that's so me. Like how could that have been a negative? You know, how could that have been? And then it becomes a, huh. Yeah. Like, I should, I should understand one. How much am I leaning on that? And so there is a level of acceptance of the discomfort, not the way that we say it.

A lot of the time, but like where, you know, it's not going to end, it's not about the discomfort ending. Yeah. It's about genuinely being like, Nope, can I do this without responding in a way that alleviates it for me? Mm-hmm. Like can I just fully accept it [00:46:00] and know that it's still the trajectory I wanna go on, but maybe not be so focused on shifting the discomfort.

Yeah. Maybe just be focused on the like keeping peaceful, moving through the day, reminding myself what I'm here to do, not overdoing it. My favorite thing is overdoing it. Like I love to over 

Speaker 4: go to the extremes. Yeah. 

Speaker 3: I literally, the amount of times I've thought, you know, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna buy a six pack of sugar-free Red Bull and stay up for three days straight and just get everything done.

That's what I'm gonna do. That's a whole season. So we're gonna 

Speaker 4: listen. If I did not, if I did not have two little humans. Forcing me not to do shit like that. I'm a guaranteed like it. I mean, because it's so easy to find ways to just want to continue to like produce, or especially if you feel passionate or if you care about something or if you're interested in something or you are curious about something.

Right. It's real easy [00:47:00] to let that just kind of become very unwieldy. 

Speaker 3: I'm telling you, I have to choose it actively. Yes. Like not do that. Yeah. And that feels like the evolution because it is. Yeah. I like being exhausted. I like running myself into the ground. I like doing everything I possibly can, and sometimes that is so much more reactive than proactive.

And so I'm at a point where I think coming out of where we were in, there was a lot of necessity around responding that way. It was required of me right now in this current role with this current company in this current phase of an iteration of it. It's not, and so, yeah. I'm training myself to allow for this time, which will effectively make me better in the next phase.

It's just so much discipline, which is disgusting. 

Speaker 4: I know. It's 

Speaker 3: discipline. Nobody, 

Speaker 4: it's also exhausting. Listen, I'm, I'm a hedonist. My nature, it's like once you start give, like, it's like [00:48:00] give as a cookie. Like you gimme just a little bit. I'll be like, throw in the gate. Like, give it all to me now. Now I want it all.

Like, it's a terrible thing to be aware of. But I think, um, you know, there's so many women that I think enter or find themselves in these kind of inflection points, career or otherwise. Um, and everyone's finds their own tools or their own ways to navigate what that shift or transition looks like. Could you.

Point to anything that has been a tool for you, or has it been more of a natural kind of progression in your thoughts and your mindset? Or are there practices that have become a part of your, you know, more of your routine? I'm just, I'm, I'm always curious about this because I have found bizarre routines that I would've never, ever, I go say hi to the birds every morning.

Now, every morning I walk outside and I sit, or I [00:49:00] stand on our tiny little back porch and make sure that my ee friends are around. And I would've literally never done that before because I was never, I had convinced myself a, I either didn't have time or I was, you know, I, I don't know what I'd convinced myself of, but I now have things I do that I would feel lost without.

And it's bizarre to me that I didn't have them two years ago. Right. So curious if you have anything like that that's shown up for you. 

Speaker 3: I mean, I think. I think in a similar fashion like nature, right? It just is this weird thing where we exist on a screen 90% of our lives now and that is not, 

Speaker 4: not supposed to be, not supposed 

Speaker 3: to be even supposed to exist.

So I similarly, I think being active, walking, putting that as a priority of like, even if I start a little later than I wanted to, I'm still gonna choose that. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Speaker 3: And then intentionally setting [00:50:00] barriers I think is more probably for me is saying like, you know, if I'm tired, I'm gonna be tired. And so for me, it's being really cutthroat to myself when I hit a point of like, yeah, no, I'm done.

And none of this, none of this to-do list right now is crucial for waking up tomorrow. Like it's just not. And so can I give myself the freedom and flexibility to sit and I try to sit. In the quiet without a scream for 10 to 15 minutes after I'm done with my workday, which is torture if we're being honest.

It's actual torture. 

Speaker 4: Thank you for saying that. Because I feel like so many people would be like, and it's blissful and I'm like, 

Speaker 3: isn't. I hate it. I literally hate it so much. I set a timer 'cause I hate it so much and I'm not allowed to look at the timer. I have to set the timer on my phone and then put it over here because I literally hate it.

But it's this purposeful, can I shift my brain? Can I shift? [00:51:00] Because it's like sometimes when you're, especially if you're in a high. Pace environment, or you have a lot of things demanding your time and energy and space like kids or a partner, whatever. You don't stop and it's really easy to never stop.

Yeah. Until your body stops you, until your brain quits on you until tragedy happens. Right. So that is my goal, is to intentionally stop. And so I have the morning. Movement with the nature, whatever, whatever. And then, but five to 15 minutes after my work day, yes. And right now, that's it. Like those are, those are the only parameters I'm giving myself.

I think I want more, I think I'm pushing myself to more always, but I think it's also the grace that you give yourself in the process, which is the most annoying thing to say. Like, I hate that I just even said that, but, but, but it's so true. I am not critical of anyone in my life. I am [00:52:00] insanely critical of myself.

My negative self-talk is at an 11. 

Speaker 4: Yeah. 

Speaker 3: My, my disappointment in myself is at an 11, I really don't. Put that on others I never have. Mm-hmm. But it's as detrimental to what you want to achieve a hundred. Yeah. How you feel in your rest. How you feel with your friends if you aren't willing to take that time to just like say, you know what, that was enough.

You did enough for today. Good for you. And we're gonna chill. Like whatever chill is, we're gonna find it. And so how 

Speaker 4: do define chill? Yes. Yes. Yeah. I feel, I dunno if you listened at all, one of the women that I chatted with recently, Kara, who has her own marketing firm, and she's just wonderful. And everything she does is just, it's almost like superhuman style where you're like, how do you navigate the world with so much intention?

And part of what she was sharing was that is one of the biggest shifts she's made in her life and how she's actually [00:53:00] found this moment. Of fulfillment and success is mastering her self-talk because she's like, I spent my whole life telling myself I wasn't enough. She didn't say it in so many words, but this is kind of the gist of it, which is, okay, hey Kara, did you do everything you wanted to do today?

No. Okay, well, how much did you get done? And are there other things you can do to support yourself as you move into the next day? And it, it sounds kind of wild when you talk it out loud because I think, but if you talk out loud, the way you actually talk to yourself, it's even wilder. If you actually speak words into existence that you're hearing in your mind, like that is some messed up stuff.

We have learned to do that to ourselves over the years in a way that's so detrimental to our health and to your point, to those around us. And I think it's so, it is a constant. Practice. It is not something that you work on for a little while and then all of a sudden you're like, my mindset's great. No, it is a daily intentional thing to [00:54:00] wake up and actually be aware of that.

Also exhausting. Like these are not things that are just so easy, but I do, I like that you said that there are these few things that you do because I also feel like I, for many years felt like, well, if I can't do it all, then forget any of it. Yeah. If I can't have a hour yoga practice every day, then I may as well never do yoga ever again.

If I can't run a marathon, I may as well not run half a mile. Like if I can't, same like the over commitment, the over. If I can't do it to the extreme, then it's not worth it and I think. The trick is in recognizing, wait, these little tiny shifts that we've made in our lives over the last two years, I'm going out to say hi to the birds.

You're putting five minutes at the end of your, you know, calendar day. Like those are small shifts that make a huge wild difference. And I think if I could share anything with anyone that has yet to [00:55:00] engage with or think about these practices, it's that it does not have to be all or nothing. It does not have to be some massive upheaval of your morning routine.

It can be these tiny little things that you start to put together in the same way you're five to 15 minutes at the end of the day. It's like people that cold plunge or whatever, you're training your body to not freak out every time you enter into discomfort, like you're training your brain not to freak out every time it gets quiet or like not try and shut everything out.

It's like just. All right. We cool? 

Speaker 3: Yeah, we good. Like we're good. Like we're, we're not losing it today. All right. That sounds great. 

Speaker 4: Yes. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. And appreciating whatever you've done, because truly we only get today, like I, I think that that also has been, as you get older, right? You, you see how quickly things change in a catastrophic way, how things you thought would be long lasting just aren't.

[00:56:00] Absolutely. And like that is the truth and will continue to be even more true. I think the world's divine more and more huge pace. So like, here we go. 

Speaker 4: Yes. 

Speaker 3: So it is that, that connection to the day, that is all you get. And, and I will say too, in doing the work that I'm doing now, I work with a lot of female business owners in, um, the mental health space.

So they're, they're, they own private mental health practices across the country, and I work with them as they grow their businesses. What we've seen, which is very interesting because the company as a whole works with all other types of services. And in doing consulting, I specialize in one area. Um, but that, and this is gonna, no one's gonna be surprised at this, this is since this is like a lady podcast, um, is that men have very little separation of identity in the work and their life existed.

They consider themselves to be present as themselves [00:57:00] from the time they wake up to the time they go to bed. Where women, 

Speaker 4: there's no code switching for them. Like they're not going from who they show up at home and then who they show up in the workplace. 

Speaker 3: Exactly. Where women feel constant pressure 

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Speaker 3: To not. You have to code switch at every level. Yeah. At every stage of their existence. Mm. And so my goal, I think, in this next evolution of self in work is to be more like a dude in that way, not in any other, but to, to really hone this identity and say like, can I, can I stand in that when I wake up in the morning and when I go to sleep at night?

And make it consistent all the way through? Because that level of self value, acceptance, appreciation, acknowledgement, especially if you're in a position of leadership or ownership or whatever, like that gives you so much more [00:58:00] authority over your own self like that, that I think it's really important to acknowledge.

That all of those little rituals help you stay grounded in that identity because you shouldn't be code switching. Absolutely. Think that that's part of what's so problematic is women who lead boardrooms then have to what? Diminish themselves when they go home. Then what? When they're with their families have to be something else like Or vice versa.

Or vice versa. 

Speaker 4: Exactly. Yes. 

Speaker 3: Loving, supportive. That they are. Yes. 

Speaker 4: They show up as like a you, like a whatever, you know? Yes. Whatever. 

Speaker 3: Like a bitch, like a coldhearted bitch, Kristen. 

Speaker 4: No, 

Speaker 3: you're right. 

Speaker 4: Yes. 

Speaker 3: Really, right? Yes. And so I think is the next phase of what I consider empowerment. 'cause we've already proven women are intelligent.

We've already proven they're capable of so much, but can we help? There still be less of that shift and it's inherent and so that's part of what we do. And I'm sure how you relate with your [00:59:00] clients as well, but there's a coaching of Yeah. This person that you are, when you take these tests that identify your personality and whatever, none of that is negative.

It's all about how you apply it. Right? And dudes do that inherently, but apparently we don't. 

Speaker 4: Um, I recently met a very cool young woman and she just recently graduated college. She's contemplating what's next. I'm actually gonna have her on the show because I think she's just, she's asking herself so many great questions and she was asking me, I'm like, do not ask me for advice.

I was a hot mess at your age. Like, no, no, no. Um, you know, around those early years of post, if you decide to go the college route, um. Kind of how to navigate those early years and how to be thinking about what she wants to build. What would your answer to that be? Would you have any advice for someone who is very early on in their career and is thinking about how [01:00:00] to find what it is that they really wanna be doing?

Speaker 3: Yes. I'm like, you're already 90% of the way there. That's what 

Speaker 4: I told her. I swear to you. I was like, girl, you're about to go do big things. You're fine. Why are you even asking me? 

Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, you're thinking about that? That's cool like that. Thinking about that,

I was like, oh, wait, wait. Yeah, no. Right now I'm thinking about that. When you, 

Speaker 4: I was hanging out at a bar in San Francisco at that point, I have no idea what was happening. 

Speaker 3: Trying not to get arrested. That's what I was trying to do, is try, don't get arrested. You know, like I think that if you, what I do think is powerful is if you can choose young enough.

What you wanna chase. And it may not be the thing, right? It may not be. And 

Speaker 4: it can change. Yes, it can evolve. 

Speaker 3: It can evolve. As we've said, every step counts, every move is valuable. But I think that being driven and focused and learning how to accomplish [01:01:00] something, like to set your mind and say, I think I wanna do this.

And it's like, cool, go for it. How 

Speaker 4: do you 

Speaker 3: build that pipeline to get there? How do you wanna build that, those stepping stones, and give yourself the room to grow into that. But staying focused, like I think it's really hard right now for everyone to stay focused. We have so many inputs and so many messages, 

Speaker 4: so many distractions.

Speaker 3: So many distractions and so much that people are telling us what to think, what not to think, or you, do you believe in this or do you not believe in that? Or are you supporting this? If you can learn that early to quiet the noise and decide, this is what I wanna do, regardless of what other people are saying around you.

And it may not work, but that doesn't matter. It matters that you chose it, pursued it, and you got there and then you can change again, because now you know how to do that for yourself. Absolutely. And so that would be, that would be it. Although I really am not concerned about this human because 

Speaker 4: really [01:02:00] just wait, just wait until I interview her because 

Speaker 3: you're gonna be like, cool, cool, 

Speaker 4: cool.

She's, wise, wise, beyond her years, I think, you know, that was my actual only piece of advice if you wanna call it, was let yourself just have fun with it a little bit. Right. You are in this really incredible moment in your life where everything is an option. Yeah. And that I understand can feel so daunting and terrifying in so many ways, but if we're lucky enough.

To have the average lifespan of, you know, 4,000 weeks. There's a lot of time to kind of experiment. And f my whole life has been a giant experiment. My whole career continues to be a giant experiment. And I think it's like, but you also get to learn so many cool things by doing it that way. I mean, I've had jobs, experiences that I would've never imagined, you know, when I was a kid because I couldn't have conceived of it.

It was not even a thing I knew was a possibility. And so. I do think when we ask people that are so young to pick a path, it's dangerous because there's so many different [01:03:00] ones. But I like that. I like the way you're talking about it, which is pick it for now. Yes. It does not have to be forever. And these things can evolve and change over time.

Um, I ask every single person at the end of our conversation, to me, so much of this really is in service of what is the legacy we are all trying to build toward. And I think many times we look at or think of the word legacy as this far off thing in the distance. I believe we're building towards those things every day.

And as I get older, I think more and more about how to intentionally be shaping that and thinking about what legacy means to me. I haven't found my answer, but I ask everyone if they have an answer for what they think

Speaker 3: game. '

Speaker 4: cause I'm, I'm, I'm polling everyone so I can decide if I wanna to just, you know, copy someone else. 

Speaker 3: I take that. Thank you. That was good. 

Speaker 4: But I, I think for, and this can also evolve and change your answer today might not be your answer [01:04:00] in six months, but if you had to define for yourself, what does building a legacy mean for you today?

What does that mean?

Speaker 3: I live in such, it is so funny 'cause I think because. I don't have kids. And because I also feel like when I'm dead by, like, do I care? 

Speaker 4: You're coming back. You're gonna come back at something. We just dunno what yet. 

Speaker 3: I'm sure. But like I'm also like, fine. You know? So yeah, I think it's, for me it is. I hope that I'm never just building for myself.

It's the constant awareness that I am not building my own empire, my own kingdom. That I am laying groundwork for someone else to have a better shot than me. And so if I can lay as many bricks as possible throughout my journey, that gives someone just [01:05:00] one step further than what they would've had on their own.

I have done what I was supposed to do. And so I think that's constantly in the back of my brain is like, you are not here for you. And this is hopefully. Enjoyable, right? You get to do things that make you feel a value and that you get to exist in the world as a whole human and be present with people you love and all of that.

But that everything I do in terms of legacy is about the base level that I get to raise for someone else. And that's, that's the hope. 

Speaker 4: Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Thank you for hanging out with me. You're amazing. Um, and yeah, I'll make sure that you have to come back and tell us more at some point. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. The evolution continues.

The evolution continues. I'm definitely in a midpoint now, so I will be, yeah. I'm excited to see where it goes most days. Some days I'm really irritated about it, but for 

Speaker 4: the most, well, that's just nature. That's just the nature of life, I [01:06:00] think.

Speaker: Thank you so much for listening and spending some of your time with me here. I hope our conversation sparked some new ideas for you. If you enjoyed the episode, please make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's next. And if you are ready for even more tools and stories, head on over to belden strategies.com/newsletter.

I share fresh insights, stories, and tools for women leaders every week. Until next time, keep building, keep evolving, and remember that you are kind of a big deal.