Kind of a Big Deal

Stop Waiting for a Seat at the Table. Build Your Own Room Instead.

• Kristin Belden

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0:00 | 56:11

What does it look like to leave a 20-year career not because you have to, but because you finally recognize you're ready?

Angeliki is an MD-PhD with 35 years in medicine, the last two decades at Pfizer as a molecular medicine and pathology specialist. She was building AI-powered cancer prediction tools twenty years before "AI" became a buzzword, holds international patents with over 1,000 citations, and was named one of the 100 most influential women in biosciences out of 3,000 nominees. She also holds a master's in Arts and Literature from the Sorbonne... and somewhere in there, she got a skydiving degree and was accepted into NASA's Mars mission program.

Now she's walking away from corporate entirely to build something of her own. Not because the work ran out, but because, as she puts it, the timing made the decision - not the decision itself.

We talk about what it means to create your own room when nobody offers you a seat at the table, why joy is a choice instead of a circumstance, and what legacy looks like once you stop asking for permission.

What You'll Learn
⭐ Why leaving a 20-year career can feel like relief instead of loss
⭐ How to create your own room when nobody offers you a seat at the table
⭐ Why joy is a choice, not a reaction to your circumstances
⭐ How to stop performing who you are and start building from who you are
⭐ How combining two unrelated disciplines can become your biggest professional advantage
⭐ What legacy actually means once you stop measuring it in money or titles

Key Insights

Pull the Chair and Sit at the Table
In a male-dominated industry, Angeliki stopped waiting to be invited in. Her rule: if the room doesn't want you, build your own room - and welcome others into it.

The Mind Is Like a Parachute
Her theory: it works better when it's open. Pairing medicine with a master's in Arts and Literature from the Sorbonne taught her to translate complexity into something a room can actually act on.

Joy Is a Choice, Not a Circumstance
For Angeliki, joy isn't about whether life is going well. It's an internal practice you choose daily, based on your own values - regardless of what's happening around you.

Legacy Isn't About What You Leave Behind
It's about what you build, what it costs, and doing it anyway... so the people coming behind you know it's possible.

Timestamps
00:00 Intro: meet Angeliki, the MD-PhD who almost went to Mars
03:00 A master's in Arts and Literature from the Sorbonne, and why it matters
04:00 Arriving in the US alone and building a career from zero
05:00 At three years old, she already knew she'd become a doctor
07:00 The skydiving degree and the NASA Mars mission acceptance
12:00 Her theory: the mind is like a parachute
17:00 Pull the chair and sit at the table — or build your own room
21:00 Why leaving corporate after 20 years felt like relief, not loss
24:00 Why she stopped waiting for the conditions to be right
40:00 Every decision that's true to who you are is a celebration
41:00 Joy is a choice, not a circumstance
50:00 What legacy really means

Resources and Links
Connect with Angeliki on LinkedIn
Find host Kristin Belden on LinkedIn or at BeldenStrategies.com
Sign up for Kristin's newsletter Big Deal Energy: BeldenStrategies.com/newsletter

If this conversation resonated, share it with someone who needed to hear it - and consider leaving a review. It helps more awesome folks find these conversations.

#careerchange #careerreinvention #womeninmidlife #leavingcorporate #womeninSTEM #AIinmedicine #executivecareerchange #purposedrivencareer #buildingyourownbusiness #midlifecareerpivot #womenleadership #legacy #over40 #kindofabigdeal #kristinbelden

SPEAKER_00

Hi friends, welcome back to Kind of a Big Deal. I'm your host, Kristen Beldon, and if you're enjoying the show, please hit the subscribe button. It helps more awesome folks like you find us. Today I'm sitting down with Angeliki, and I have to start with this. She's an MD PhD who was accepted into NASA's Mars mission program, holds a skydiving degree, and was building AI-powered cancer prediction tools 20 years before AI became a buzzword. She has 35 years in medicine, she holds international patents with over 1,000 citations, and was named one of the 100 most influential women in biosciences out of 3,000 nominees. She also just happens to have a master's in arts and literature from the Starbomb. But the resume isn't even the most interesting part. After nearly two decades in corporate, she's walking away from all of it to build something entirely her own. And that's the kind of conviction that made me want her on this show the moment we met through a mutual acquaintance. We get into what it means to create your own room when nobody offers you a seat at the table, why joy is a choice instead of a circumstance, and what legacy can look like once you stop asking for permission. Lastly, her theory that the mind works best like a parachute. Listen closely to hear what she means by that and let me know what you think. Can't wait for you to meet her. Here we go. Hi Angeliki. Hi, Kristen. I just said hi Angeliki and then I realized, oh my goodness, I did not ask you if I'm actually pronouncing your name properly.

SPEAKER_01

That's correct. It is angel. It is. Some people say it's an angel with a little IKI at the end. Oh, I like that. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So bear with me on this one because this is an intro like no other that I've done so far. So you're gonna have to just either tell me I'm correct with everything I'm about to share about you, or add whatever needs to get added. Um, but Angeliki is just truly a really amazing woman that I met through a mutual acquaintance. And we got to chatting, and she has this incredible history, and she brings so much wisdom to the table, but she is really um, I think generous is the word I would use with her knowledge and with her wisdom. And so we'll just go through the laundry list. She is an MD PhD with 35 years of experience the last um almost two decades at Pfizer, after a career arc through academia and biotech. She is a molecular medicine and pathology specialist. Are we am I am I hitting this right so far? Okay, good.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Um, who was doing AI-powered cancer prediction over 20 years ago. So before it was fashionable, before all of the conversations we're having today. So she has a deep, deep knowledge in history and some of the work, you know, that we're just all starting to get to understand. She holds international patents with a thousand plus citations and was named one of the hundred most influential women in biosciences out of 3,000 nominees. So if that's not enough to make you say, I want to know and learn more from this woman, um, she's also now at her own inflection point. So after leaving corporate, you know, after nearly two decades of what she has kind of said, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but this is something that you said in one of our chats that really resonated with me because I have had a similar moment, which was kind of being ready to move on from architecting and working on someone else's goals in order to launch her own practice and business. And so we'll get to hear more about that. Um, but yeah, like I said, in the handful of times we've had the chance to connect, I've just found her to be incredibly wise with a level of conviction that just obviously guarantees she'll have success in this next chapter. So I'm excited to hear more and to have her share more. But Angeliki, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you, Christine, and thank you very much for such a wonderful presentation of who I am. Like I try to find out again, still today, who I am, really. And good morning, good afternoon, good evening to everyone who's who's with us tonight. Um, so it's it's really a pleasure, and um, I hope that my journey it will be something that will empower and give every audience, women or not, um, a new refreshed view of where they are in their journey today.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

So, as you said, a physician and a scientist at MD PhD, but also I hold the masters in arts and literature from the Sorbonne, because at the end of the day, science, without the ability to tell its story in science, that stays in a drawer.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my goodness. This is okay, wait a second. I did not know this. This is not something that we've talked about. This is crazy, really. That's amazing. Surprise, right? Like I she's got more layers, there's more.

SPEAKER_01

So I I came to this country from Greece um on a sabbatical from during my last year of residency. I came alone. I started from zero. A new country, a new system. Everything built from scratch. However, in less than six weeks, I made two scientific discoveries significant enough that the US government granted me extraordinary ability designation in the science. This is the highest standard recognition for any original contribution of anyone in the field, right? To the field. So being first is not a recent development. It has always been how I work.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I'm curious about that. So, you know, if we could like let's take our time machine back if we can. And, you know, we were you always drawn to medicine specifically? Like, were you the kid who knew they wanted to be a doctor when they grew up? What were those early days like for you?

SPEAKER_01

Uh, that's true. You really, you know, you read my mind here. Um, when I was three years old, I with great conviction, I sat down with my parents and I told them in my, you know, little town in Greece that I will become a doctor. Mind you, no one from my family is a doctor or ever was a doctor. But I knew that I knew that that was my calling. And naturally, uh, and that we're talking about decades ago, right? So uh naturally my mother dismissed that, saying, I am too young, uh, that will not truly benefit me as a woman, because I will have to juggle between my career and my family and my life. And I was like, uh, I'm a kid, I don't think, you know, I'm thinking about chores right now. I'm just declaring what I gonna become, period.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

However, uh because I am one of those people that I I'm very hard on myself, right? I took it and I was thinking, what else perhaps I want to become? So three years later, about six years old, I sat my parents down and I said, listen, I know I told you this, this still remains that I will become a doctor, and I have two more dreams. One is I want to become a prima ballerina, not any classical I mean prima, okay. Or uh a firefighter in a jet.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I love your like just I love your dualities. I love the way that is still, as you're talking about arts and sciences later on in life, like how beautiful that your brain was wired like that from a very young age.

SPEAKER_01

And and then the reasoning came. I said, however, because I don't like to do things halfway or good enough way, I want to excel. Still, medicine is my calling. Um, but I will keep the other two for my as as my you know as my side, you know, uh amusement. So yes, I took various dancing classes. I didn't exactly, you know, yet, yet um being on a jet, you know, and a fire jet. However, I hold a degree of skydiving. Okay. Amazing. And I was accepted at NASA many, many years ago to be part of the Mars mission. What? Right, but regardless, here I am, decades later. I have accomplished quite enough in, I would say, uh as a doctor, in a sense, not because of you know uh titles or anything, papers written or anything, just because I have touched patients and people's life with the art of medicine. I'm ready to take the world stage and fly very high, just in a different way. So here I am in the maturity of my age, that I will leave all my dreams in one use.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh. Well, I want to hear more about that kind of like moment when you realized it was time to make that pivot. But I'm I'm deeply curious about three years old, you having that level. I mean, and the fact that you can also remember that. I think some of my first actual real memories were much later in my childhood. So the fact that you can recall these things, like, do you have any sense of what inspired you at such a young age if you didn't see it in your family or anything close to you?

SPEAKER_01

Uh there are a couple of things, you know. I have gone back to my memory lane, right? Um, what could have been? For starters, it's like my home back in Greece is near the hospital. So perhaps that was a level of comfort and familiarity. Um, the other thing is that uh my hometown is near a sanctuary where Asclepius was performing medicine, and I was lucky enough because every summer in that same amphitheater they are performing ancient Greek tragedy drama from Aeschylus and Sophocles, so and Euripides and all this, you know, uh amazing um ancient philosophers. And so since I was three years old, I was sitting on that same stone that they were heated from all the sun during the day in the middle of the night after sunset to see those performances in that sanctuary, and that really made me to feel once again that I was in my space. That was my you know, spiritually, energetically, um I was there. I was it. Yeah, I was in.

SPEAKER_00

You could feel it. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I think that's that was it. And of course, you know, the kindness and both my parents always, and their, you know, the circle of friends, always they're there for others, whichever way. Right? That's arm, try to make the other person feel better, be there in their need, right? So that's a qualities that a physician should possess if they truly care about their patient.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Were they at all surprised after they had told you, like, you know, this is really, you know, you're too young to be making these declarations to see you, you know, like really just absolutely shine. Not that they would be surprised that you would shine, but was there any surprise at all that you continued to like push forward even after there was chats about, you know, maybe this isn't the path?

SPEAKER_01

Uh they they had a small, you know, like a small, let's say, chance, perhaps they thought when um at age five, I start also my French school here. Uh so I grew up bilingual uh and trilingual practically because I also was taking English. However, every summer when I started studying, you know, the arts and the music and everything in Sorbonne, they thought, oh, maybe she will change her mind. At least she will be, you know, she will go to that direction until I told them that was an add-on. To how I view the art of medicine.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Yes. Say more, say more about that. How do you think that education has continued to kind of influence the way you think about how you practice medicine and how these two, this intersection of arts and sciences, I think, is such an it's such a beautiful but kind of an untapped area for a lot of folks, right? Most people kind of live in the either or. They don't live in that, you know, the polling of the two worlds together. So how has that influenced the way you think about your scientific and medical work?

SPEAKER_01

So my theory is um the mind is like a parachute, it works better when it's open.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I love that. Oh my gosh. Yes. Okay, so listen to this. We'll put every woman, I feel like, has a t-shirt that needs to come out of this conversation, these interviews, and that's yours.

SPEAKER_01

I'll be honored if that would be the case. So how does that then go? Oh, but by taking, you know, um input from different fields, except that not only from the one that your it's your vocation, allows you to approach your own field in so much different ways. And as I said before, medicine is all about communicating to a patient, communicate it to the scientific world, link the dots together to fill the story, right? And that's what the my masters in Sorbonne you know, like, because art in my mind is that exactly the connective tissue of how you build the society, how you build the culture that surrounds you. And we are part of that culture. Uh and you're meeting the patient where they are at. So that helped me to become more empathetic, to become more understanding, uh, to reach people from all levels of walk of life, from every race and every nation, just because I had that kind of foundation underneath. And the way to, you know, everybody can speak about their vacation in the high level, you know, vocabulary that you're using, right? But especially when you speak to a patient, you need to meet them at their point. You need to meet them at that level. And that's what music did, that's what the art of writing or the art of painting did throughout the years. So for me, that was like an aha moment of that connection. Yeah. I have never felt more comfortable, I say, than the moment that I can have examples from that era and share with patients here with families, comfort them in a different way. Yeah, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Yes, I think there's something so beautiful about that. I'm actually on a committee here locally. It's the inaugural, it's called ARX, which is artists and researchers. And so for the full year, we're bringing together researchers and we pair them with artists, and the artist is meant to create a piece of work that is based on the researchers', you know, deep knowledge and expertise and the work that they do with the hopes that it can be then translated out differently. It's exactly to your point, you know, reading a white paper, and that's there's that's all very valid and important, but like to get to experience it or to be able to have it be more accessible to people to translate that vision in a way that folks might be able to interact with it differently. Um, so I'm I'm all for that level of intersection.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my goodness, that's so exciting. I never knew that that was existing. That's lovely.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. We're learning from each other right now. Learning, learning about each other, I should say. Um I would imagine, you know, a pharma and biotech at the executive level, because you climbed the ladder for lack of a better term pretty quickly, and you spent a lot of your time in these executive spaces. I don't want to make it too many assumptions, but I my my guess is that it's still a pretty male-dominated space at the executive level. Did you ever see things that you had to navigate maybe differently because you were a woman in leadership, or what did that look like for you?

SPEAKER_01

It's it's indeed true, right? Um I was not one of those people that I was thinking to climb the ladder or try to impress anyone. I was a person of dedication and do the right thing for my department, for the corporation, for the patients, always patient-centric. Um, yes, that world is pretty much male-dominated, and the structure that exists, uh, it's not meant for women to be in the room. Or if you are in the room, somebody's taking your work. Usually a male or a female that sees you as a competitor and take it and run, right? And one thing that I would like to say to our friends here is that, and to myself actually, you know, like I keep reminding myself that don't wait for someone to offer you the position or invite you at the table. The right moment is now. Pull the check and sit on that table. And if they don't accept you, or if you find it too that does not fit your personality or your interest, your vision, just create your own room. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And welcome people on your table.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I know. I think we were talking about this before we started recording, that we can get caught into these, you know, um, I don't know what the right word is, not trope, but like just this kind of assumption of the way that we're meant to be in the world or show up in the world, and especially in Western societies where it's like you do this thing and you, you know, show up a certain way, and then you're supposed to be rewarded, and then you do the di-da-da-da-da. That you forget that you do have the you can be empowered to, as you say, create your own room. And I think that can be, it doesn't have to be as massive as, okay, I'm gonna like totally, you know, blow up my life and go in a different direction. It can be as small as I recognized that there were a couple of events here and there that I was interested in being a part of that could never quite find my way into. And then I was like, why don't I just create my own event? Like, what am I waiting to your point for somebody to invite me to that one? That's silly. Let's do my own.

SPEAKER_01

There's plenty, there's plenty, and you know, the more you're stepping away from that, how can I say, struck, right? Then the easier it is for you to see the other patterns.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I totally agree. We I don't know, we just lost your background, which is so funny because now we have different backgrounds. So if anybody notices a difference, I have no idea what happened. It's okay, it's still a great background, but now we don't have you at all. You're totally gone now.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, there you go.

SPEAKER_00

There we are. It's all good, it's perfect. Perfect. Um I now we actually feel like we can be in Greece with you right now. So I'd I'd much prefer that. Um so when you say, you know, make your own room and pull up your own seat, how did that manifest for you while you were still in those spaces? Or do you feel like that's kind of a shift that happened as you had the realization that it was time to move into a different season of life?

SPEAKER_01

Um actually, um today I'm not in a hurry to move anywhere or be somewhere or show up anywhere, right? I'm building. As the decision had been forming long before the timing was clear. You mentioned during the introduction that I was building the AI, you know, 20 years ago for cancer predictions. And I had also found it a couple of, I don't know, almost like 15, 16 years ago, a small biotech. And these are things that they were calling me back. It was like almost like a relief, not a loss. The chapter of who I was and performing how I was, not who I was, how I was performing, had ended at exactly the moment the next one was pulling me back in. And so this was not a leap for me, it was a recognition that what I have been building in Parallel for 30 plus years, and even before that, right, of who I am and what else I'm bringing with me, was ready for my full attention at this time. For the first time, it was me in the sliding seat.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, you have to give us a little bit more about what you mean um how you were performing who you were. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01

So uh another aspect, perhaps I I'm not sure if we had ever touch point on that. But when I came, you know, in in the country, um, and as I said, I built my career from scratch again because I had to get recertified, you know, all these things. I was also four years later, I got married, I had a child, I got divorced two years later, and then for 12 years or so I was a single parent while I was building my career.

SPEAKER_00

No, we have not talked about that.

SPEAKER_01

So I was the one accountable and I gave everything I had. Right. So it's it's not that's what I'm trying to say. Um what you're bringing, you know, with you. Who are you? Uh because it to me, it didn't matter if it was uh regulatory submission, uh board meeting, uh I don't know, a new discovery, you name it, right? Um it was my credibility that I was building and something that is portable, right? It's me. And so it was the same type of conviction when I said three years old, I will become a doctor, the same conviction came I will become the best as a mother, as a scientist, as a medical doctor, as an executive, as as right. And I I stopped waiting for the conditions to be right because the conditions were never right for me either, right? The rest follows when you stop asking that permission that we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes. Oh my gosh, there's so much there that I want to hear more about. I think you just said building something that was you the whole time. And I think there's just this really interesting moment happening right now, and I'm noticing in more and more of my conversations with like mid-career, mid to later career women who are kind of having this recognition that there's finally this moment to look back and go, okay, like there's a wisdom that can come from seeing the history and the patterns and what's built you to the place that you're in today. But I think it can be really tricky at times to separate yourself from either the title that you held or the organization that you were representing, you know, so you kind of had that as your background to like the quote unquote who you were. But it sounds like you were pretty aware at a younger age that you were building something that was you, not just in service of the institute or the industry that you were a part of. Do you think that was something you were aware of at that time, or is that more now that you're looking back that you can see that? Hey, quick pause before we get back into it. If you're listening to conversations like this one and something keeps nudging you, like I know I'm at some kind of turning point. I just can't quite see it clearly yet. That's actually exactly what I do. I work with women leaders who are in the middle of something: a career shift, a business that's ready to evolve, a moment where what got you here just isn't cutting it anymore. Sometimes what you need most isn't a whole program or a big engagement. You just need a few hours with someone who can help you see what you're too close to see yourself. That's the clarity session. It's a focused, one-on-one conversation where we dig into where you are, where you want to go, and what's actually in the way. You walk away with real direction, not a list of homework, but genuine clarity on your next move. If that sounds like what you need right now, I'd love to talk. You can find all the details at Beldenstrategies.com slash clarity.

SPEAKER_01

I knew that I had that that um how can I say that thirst, right, to learn more, expand my horizon more. And that was also part of me study, you know, four languages, right? And because I wanted to when I visit a country to be able to speak with the people there to understand their own nation. Um and as I said, my arts studies were not was not a detour from medicine, it was the other half of the same education. How to think rigorously and how to make what you think land. And so everything I have done since then had required both. If I look back to my journey during my residency, during my journey to the US, that ended up staying there, you know, and 30-something years in the healthcare. So I have done since everything had to require both of these elements for me. Let's say the regulatory submissions, the board presentation, the legal strategy, the podcast conversation, right? Like now, none of that works without the ability to translate complex matters or complex evidence of in the case of medicine into something a room can act on. Soft skill. That is the hardest skill there, it is. And the reason is because it's a seed that you put some years back, waiting for that to grow, and then you just reap that wisdom that you have gained.

SPEAKER_00

Totally. Do you think that it requires I wonder if it requires a certain level of curiosity though, to even be or like maybe um presence in order to see when that's flowering? I think, you know, maybe sometimes because we're moving so fast, things can be flowering all around us and we have no idea that it's spring. You know, it's like we don't even we can't see it because we're just so and I I say this based on my own experience, which was, you know, after years of like being pretty tunnel vision on go, go, go. I don't even know what I was driving towards. I was driving towards something, but I was like, I just keep going, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

It feels like I'm in a different season of my life now where I'm able now to see things a little bit differently. I can see that, oh, this thing that's happening right now is from a conversation I had a decade ago or a relationship I had a decade ago. But I wonder if it requires some exercises to like be able to be present in that. Or do you think that um that's something that you've always been aware of that you can kind of see as things are blooming and how to kind of reach out and take advantage of the opportunities? It sounds like you were very like aware most of your career.

SPEAKER_01

I'm not I'm not sure if I was aware, like in the fullness I am today, right? And and thank you for joining that that you know that conversation today, because um I I believe every every conversation you have with anyone, it leaves an imprint on you. Even in the moment that at that moment you have not realized that it's an important imprint, or it's something that you will find it later in your life in front of you. So that I was enough aware that when someone told me something, um I will take it or live it. Of course, doesn't mean anything that they someone tells you you have to carry it with you, filter it. If it's for you, fine. And actually later on re-filter it again, 10 years later, yes, years later, you know, whatever the case might be. As I said, you know, you grow and you grow more wiser. So so I that I was something that I had the tendency of re-examining myself. What do I need? Do I need this to carry with me? You know, you said something to me that perhaps makes me very happy or make me very sad, whatever, depends what it was. Is that who I am? Is that what I want to handle? It's like the performance review. You have a manager that tells you like how I don't know, inadvocative we are, or how wonderful you are, and you say to yourself, like, but no, you know, like that one way or the other, right? So is that defined who you are professionally? Absolutely not. Absolutely not, but but we are accustomed, the system wants us those things to really take them seriously. I'm not saying not to be professional, I'm not saying not to strive for excellence and do above and beyond whatever you need to do. But remember that the most important asset is yourself. Yeah. And the truth to yourself is the most important thing that you can hold really very tight.

SPEAKER_00

Totally. Well, I think you're saying there's more to the story, right? Like it's not just these things. Of course, we have to take into account the system that we're in and you know, be a part of that, whatever. But what I hear you saying is your performance review is not the whole picture of who you are as a professional. And yeah, I think it can be really easy to fall into that and allow that to speak into who you are. It's like it creates a version of who you are. I found over the last few years as I peeled back my own layers to go, oh, I had been telling myself a story for a very long time based on how other people perceived my value. And it's not to say that wasn't valuable, but I certainly now recognize it wasn't the whole story. And I spent many years believing that to be the full truth. And so I think being able to ask yourself some of those questions. I wonder if there were ever any questions you found yourself asking, you know, as you kind of started to get closer and closer to this moment of, you know, it's time to shift and pivot. Did you find yourself in any kind of uncomfortable conversation with yourself?

SPEAKER_01

With myself all the time.

unknown

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, seriously, it's something that if anyone who wants to thrive on, and when I mean thrive for yourself, right? Not thrive for others, right? You need to have those uncomfortable, so to speak, conversations with yourself, because only through them you are gonna grow. There's no other way to grow, right? I mean, we prune our trees and our flowers in our gardens. How much more ourselves?

SPEAKER_00

That's right. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

It's not fun, right? It's not fun, but when you get through and you are on the other side, it's so beautiful. It's so spacious, it's so juicy, you know. I don't know how to express it, right? It's like whatever. Yes, the process is not fun, the process can be painful, and I think that's I'm very thankful to you because you're bringing that awareness to all of us that you're not alone in this journey. And many times in this journey, you're gonna think like, oh, I'm just I'm just fooling myself. No, I'm I'm like, no, I better go back where I was, you know. No, no, no, no, no, I cannot do this. No, I I have not achieved anything. Oh, I'm not good enough on this, you know, like all this kind of thing. And so you need your support group beyond the support group of your family, your friends, whomever, yeah, and be in the midst of women like the women you're bringing into your podcasts and everything. It tells you, okay, I'm not alone. There are others that they have cried last night the same way I cried, and told that I'm like a loser or I am whatever.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes, and then you get to have the other woman look back at you and be a mirror and say, hello, you're amazing, right? Because it's so true that we can get caught up in our own, especially in these moments if you've left either an organization or an institution or an industry. You can kind of feel like you're flailing a little bit for a while, and you need those anchors to keep coming back to because it can feel also isolating and to your point lonely. Because I think even our families and friends and communities with the best of intentions, sometimes it can also be uncomfortable for them as you're asking yourself these uncomfortable questions because you might be, you know, shifting or evolving in a way that feels it's not like some extreme you now are green or whatever, but like you have a different maybe presence or a different level of conviction or awareness. And I I have had over the last three years a couple of relationships. You know, I had I had always heard about this, but I never fully understood it. Like if you are going to evolve and shift and grow, there might be some relationships that they've played their course, and it's time to let those be what they were and thank them for what they were. And in my head, I was like, I just literally can't imagine that. Like I stay friends with everyone, like I would never, and I don't understand. And in my head, it was this like big, you know, one day all of a sudden they're cut from your life, and you take the Xacto knife and they're gone. And I can now say, after having a couple of those experiences, that is not at all how it went. It was a slower kind of when you were saying earlier, like the moment that you're in now, you've been building towards for years, right? You didn't just wake up one day and say, it's time to do this now. It was a moment that allowed the recognition to be that the truth was always there. And I think that can be true for relationships as well. It's that they maybe were you were kind of seeing that they were shifting or feeling something that didn't feel right anymore. And then it's when the moment happens, it's more of just an allowing it to be released. And that has been a really weird learning for me in all of this.

SPEAKER_01

But also, you know, think about the things that after you you you cut off or those things fell off, you prune them, then you blossom, and you attract way much better people, totally circumstances, whatever it is, right, experiences, whatever it is, that you didn't have room before to do so, because those people they were occupying it. Your mind, perhaps your time, whatever the situation was, allow you to do with these people. And I have to say that when that moment came for me, um consciously, that was very consciously, but that was like now in my older age, right? More wise age, not when I was younger. That on purpose, I didn't want to do anything until I make that deep exam. I mean, being a molecular, you know, pathologist in the medical field, I think I'm used to go like digging really very down. You know, to see. So I said, okay, let's see who you are, who you want to become. What is my vision? Because unless we put our vision forward, we will never reach it. And there are many dreams that they have died because we never put the words in our mouth to express our dreams.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, do you think sometimes part of the issue can even be that we don't know what the dream is anymore? Like we've become so far from that that and I'm not asking you just on your story because I think you've have such an a special through line, but I wonder for some, it could be also not just to not only can it not be verbalized yet, but it's like it isn't even we've we've maybe detached ourselves so far from that like trueness of who we are and the core of what we want and our desires that it's it's impossible to even say it because we don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_01

I I'm an optimist in life. So I believe that each one of us, our dreams are are inside of us. Like we were bored in a sense with those dreams. It's it's up to us to find the time to, as you were saying before, unpeel the onion, dig down, even if it's painful, even if that means that you are dropping off things that you you're supposed to carry these things with you. What are you talking about? You know, the uh the husband, the friendship, the job, the whatever, right? The community, whatever that the country, you know, whatever that is. Uh but I think all of us we have dreams. Maybe for some dreams they're like deeper than others. But the moment, as I was saying before, the moment you start becoming true to yourself, all the rest we follow. And we should stop comparing ourselves with the people that we think are legends or the people that we admire, because behind those people, there's a lot of effort that has really been place for them to be in that pedestal. Of course, should be, you know, our example or something that we say, oh, I would like to be like this person, X, Y, Z, if that's who you want to be. But they didn't, they didn't all of a sudden get on the top of the mountain, they said, Oh, look where I am at, you know. They had to climb that mountain, they had to fall, they had to scrape their knees. Same way that we do. What we usually do, we compare ourselves with these giants, and then you lose hope. And you say, Oh, I wouldn't be like that. I'm not a kind of person. Every step, every morning that we are making a decision that is true to who we are, it's a celebration.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh, I love that. Yes, I agree. And what a joyful way. Yes, yes, yes. It's such a it's a different way of walking into your day, right? I think there is a when you are interested in yourself, it's like not in an ego way or like in a like I'm gonna, I'm, but in a, I'm literally interested in understanding, am I aligned in this decision or aligned in the way I'm moving throughout my day, right? When you start to witness that, it can also, I think, bring a level of gratitude and a deeper sense of. I use the term joy loosely because to me it's not about, oh, we're happy all the time. It's more like the homeostasis is one of the world is inherently good. And I say that with a lot of, I'm I'm very aware of how hard the world is, and I know there is a lot of deep conflict and pain. So I'm not trying to be flip about it, but I think we do, no matter what, get to choose how we want to enter our day, and therefore how we're going to react to the things that come our way. And it again, this isn't like a toxic positivity thing, it's just a general like, how do you want to be as you enter the world? Not just what is the world, quote unquote, bringing to your doorstep.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. In Greek, actually, we have different words for those things, like in English. Is very hard to express. Yeah. But joy is something that comes, it's an internal virtue. And joy is not part of with who you are, where you are, what's happening in the world. That's the happiness events or moments, or unhappy events or moments. The joy is a choice that you made for yourself, based on your values, based on your beliefs, and based on your actions that you take for yourself to maintain that homeostasis of joy. And if all of us we work on our joy, then guess what? The world is gonna become more happy.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. I think I have noticed as as I have entered this newer season of my life. I am in, I've always been one to like want to talk to strangers, and I think everyone's my best friend, but like, you know, I I think just in general, I am going to greet you with a smile. I'm going to assume the best until you show me otherwise, right? Which some people would say is gullible or whatever, but I think it's just the way I want to be. It's the way I want to show up.

SPEAKER_01

But you know, it doesn't mean that you know I I hear you about vulnerability, right? Love is the highest of the virtues that we have. That's your armor, so you're not gonna get hurt.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, wow. Oh my god, you have so many quotable moments here.

SPEAKER_01

I'm building the wardrobe, you know, like for all of us. I love it.

unknown

I love it.

SPEAKER_00

Um, let's I want to make sure we don't lose the opportunity to talk about the moment that you're in now. Like, what are you most excited about? Not necessarily what's the five-year plan, but like what in this moment I are you being drawn to? Are you excited about? Are you just like, this has got me amped right now?

SPEAKER_01

So the most exciting aspect of this journey is first I found my new self. In a sense, I found my old self. When I'm asked, okay. Yes. That same conviction that I had when I was three years old, and I said that's what I will become, that that's what I want, and this is my rest of the dreams, and then gonna chase all of them. As I told you, I'm gonna take the world's change, I'm gonna fly high, right? And I'm gonna use all these years of wisdom, and not I don't mean only from the medical aspect, but of course that's you know, that's the anchor, right? But everything that came with it between academia, biotech, corporate life, to do something that I will try to make a better world out there and leave a legacy for others and for my family to be remembered. And only when you touch people's lives and you are able to serve the others in a way that it is an ease for them, whatever that ease you provide, I think that's I feel that's a life fulfilled, right? So the most exciting part is that I meet uh you know, when you get out of that uh silo, let's put it, that you have been living with, operating under, then nothing is a straight line. Everything is a zigzag. Yeah. And in that zigzag, you meet people, you exchange ideas, you start even see things that you were not able to see before because you said something, right? And oh, that was an aha moment for a sparkle, for a new idea, for a new I don't know, project, for a new outreach, for a new something, for a new even knowledge that I didn't have before. And I cherish when I hear someone tells me something that, oh my god, that's I never thought about this this way, or I never heard about this before. Right? It's it's such an exciting think about like I I have the same curiosity as I had when I was a child now. So there's no borders, there's no stylus. I cherish every conversation I have with every person that I meet. And so it's um I'm growing. I'm growing. That's that's healthy, you know?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes, yes. I think, yes, I'm with you 100%. I one of the unexpected beautiful things in kind of shifting into a new space is that it opens, if you allow it, it opens your world up in ways that you could have never expected. And you, to your point, you meet people, you come across people, you get to be in conversations with people. I mean, this is a really bad example, but I'm gonna use it anyways, because like when people talk about LinkedIn and it's frustrating and annoying, and I agree with all of that for a lot of reasons. And I've met some incredible people just by being in conversation in a platform that I would have never engaged with a few years ago, right? Like I was literally hellbent on never using it. And now I'm like, okay, I'm gonna just try it. Let's see what happens. I don't need to be wedded to it. It doesn't need to be part of the strategy, but let me just try it. And I think you until you allow yourself to try it, then you're not gonna know whether or not it works for you. And you may not, I mean, the one of the few of the people that I've had on this show are because of a conversation on LinkedIn, you know, so you just never know.

SPEAKER_01

So so so with us, right? The same thing. If you have taken we had this conversation, let's say March, I would tell you absolutely not. I am not using LinkedIn, nobody wants to hear have to say absolutely, and I would just give you an example. This week alone, one of my posts has reached more than 7,000 people.

SPEAKER_00

Wow, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, who me that in March, I would have said to you no and no. And even here today, because through a friend who connected us to LinkedIn, and we say, Hey, can we find some time to touch, you know, touch base? And here we are talking about things beyond our own comfort zones, uh having you know the the possibility to touch someone out there that today they feel down, they're feel puzzled, they're feel they're feeling that that's it for them. There's no more dreams to chase, there's no more, you know, places to go. And I hope through our discussion today is just someone out there will have a smile in their face by the end of it and say, Yes, I can I have a dream.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I mean, I'm smiling because of hearing you, so I can only imagine there are plenty of others that are as well. Um, I usually end with a question, but you've kind of answered it already, but I will pose it back just to see if you want to like double down on anything or refine. But um to me, all of these conversations are in service of all of us building our own legacy. And I want to shift the way we think about legacy, not shift the way we think about it, but sometimes the way we talk about it is in this like future, the thing that we leave forever behind, you know, we're gonna bequeath our wealth to, you know, whatever. But I think, yeah, I think I like more to think of it as this beautiful thing we're building towards every day. And you even used the term legacy as you were talking about the moment that you're in and your excitement around it and what it means to show up for others and create a level of ease. Um, but I wonder if by asking you what does building a legacy mean to you, if there's anything else you'd want to add to that.

SPEAKER_01

So for me, what I'm saying, and what I'm saying out loud now and on record, you know, it's for all of us, that women or not, that coming behind us, knowing it is possible, and know what it actually cost, and build it anyway. Because at the end of the day, that's where you find your own self-legacy. It has nothing to do with monetary, you know, like whatever hedge funds or whatever it the case might be, right? Houses, boats, and whatever. But it's about we are here on this earth to make a difference. And if we live it just a little bit better than when we came, then our legacy is worth living.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. Yes, I just appreciate you so much. I appreciate you for your level of transparency and openness, even after only chatting a handful of times. I think you know it's a it's a brave thing to do to share our stories in this way. So I just appreciate that a whole lot. And it looks like we have uh been on a journey of time with you in Greece. It's now nighttime there, it looks like potentially. I'm so sorry, yes. I don't know what to do about it. I'm so sorry. It's okay. Don't be sorry. I actually kind of love that like you really are a totally different place from us right now, and we get to it feels like we're there with you.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome. You are anybody's welcome to come. I'll be back in the stage shortly. But yes, that's that's a time to reflect and recharge. And um perhaps, you know, next time we have a conversation, I will have some totally different vision and ideas of what I want to become when I get to the show.

SPEAKER_00

That's how these things work. Yes, that's what's so cool about it. You know, I tell so many of the women I chat with, like, let's talk in six months or a year, because I want to hear what's evolved since our first chat, because guaranteed there's gonna be a lot.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, and thank God for that. But also I want to really thank you, Christian, because what your it's your mission now, right? And it's a very important mission. Uh, I'm very thankful, first of all, and honored to be on on your today's podcast, but also uh for building this community of women uh that all of us uh collectively and as a single person wherever we are in the world can make a difference for other women as well. But first we have to take care of ourselves. It's like when they tell you at the airplane, in case anything happens, put the mask first on yourself and then to your child.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So just to remember that we need to really take care of ourselves first.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, thank you so much, agreed, and I'm so happy to be in your orbit now and can't wait to see what happens next. Great. Thank you. Thank you very much. Safe travels home when you come back. Thank you very much. Take care. Okay, bye. Thank you so much for listening and spending some of your time with me here. I hope our conversation sparked some new ideas for you. If you enjoyed the episode, please make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's next. And if you're ready for even more tools and stories, head on over to beldenstrategies.com slash newsletter. I share fresh insights, stories, and tools for women leaders every week. Until next time, keep building, keep evolving, and remember that you are kind of a big deal.