The Days We Had: A Mother’s Story of Love and Loss

Welcome back to The Project Baby Podcast — a space where we speak honestly, openly, and tenderly about the journey to parenthood in all its forms.

In today’s deeply moving episode, we’re joined by Emily, lovingly known as Emily Rosie and Dexter’s Mummy. Emily shares the heart-wrenching story of losing her baby boy, Dexter, who was stillborn at 38 weeks due to a fatal condition called anencephaly.

What makes Emily’s story profoundly unique is the 10 beautiful days she was able to spend at home with her son after his birth — holding him, creating memories, and giving him the love every baby deserves.

This episode is about grief, but also about love, connection, and the strength of a mother’s bond — even in loss. Emily’s courage in sharing her experience brings light to a subject too often kept in the shadows.

So whether you’re a parent, a bereaved family member, or someone seeking to understand baby loss with more compassion — we invite you to listen in, with an open heart.

Let’s begin.

Transcript

Natasha (00:00)

This episode is brought to you by BioGaia, a probiotic brand trusted by families like yours. From newborn drops to daily support for all ages, BioGaia is one of the world's most researched probiotics. Available at larger Boots stores.

This podcast contains subjects and conversation that some people may find triggering. Project Baby has produced this podcast for Baby Loss Awareness Week. If you or someone you know has been affected by the issues raised in this podcast, please check the show notes to find links and signposts for help and support.

Natasha (00:37)

So welcome to the Project Baby podcast, Emily. Do you want to start by telling us in your own words and at your own pace about Dexter?

Emily (00:46)

Okay, ⁓ Dexter was born on the 21st of November 2024. He was stillborn unfortunately. At Dexter's 12 week scan, I got a terminal diagnosis for him and I decided to continue my pregnancy and let Dexter decide how and when he was going to leave me.

Natasha (01:05)

And what were those first days and weeks like for you once baby Dexter had been born?

Emily (01:14)

The first day was

Emily (01:17)

I don't really remember a lot of the first day he was born, if I'm honest. I was in labour for very long time and it was a bit of a whirlwind.

Natasha (01:25)

Did you have a really good support network in that? ⁓

Emily (01:28)

I did. ⁓ I'm not the best at accepting support so I think I kind of... It was weird. I think for my whole pregnancy Dexter obviously I knew he wasn't going to live. However, I didn't really plan for once he was born and what was going to happen. I tried to plan a lot of what would happen if he had lived for a little while but hadn't really planned too much of what would happen if he didn't live or hadn't been born alive. ⁓ and I'm very much a believer in I didn't want any regrets. ⁓ I think when losing a baby, regrets is probably the hardest thing I think to carry. ⁓ So I wanted to make sure that I didn't have any regrets. So the first 24 hours were a bit of a whirlwind and then I made the decision to take Dexter home and that's when everything changed ⁓ for me and my family because we suddenly had time. We suddenly had some time to do the things I wanted to do to make sure we made the memories to make sure that I had no regrets at time with him.

Natasha (02:28)

And for our listeners who might not know, how was it possible to take Dexter home?

Emily (02:34)

I was really fortunate. We used a cuddle cot to take Dexter home. Unfortunately the cuddle cot that we originally took Dexter home, there's quite a funny story over the cuddle cot actually, but the original cuddle cot that we took from our local hospital that Dexter was born at unfortunately was broken. So at 11 o'clock on a Friday evening I had the funeral directors and the bereavement midwife all trying to fix this cuddle cot. Obviously he was born in November, it was freezing cold.

We had ice packs all around him to try and make sure that he was okay during this process. But because Dexter had antenatal diagnosis, we were fortunate enough that he was under de Melza house and they had a cuddle cot that was working and they were phenomenal and they gave us a cuddle cot within an hour of contacting them. And then I was really fortunate that I was able to keep it for 10 days with Dexter.

Natasha (03:26)

And what did you do during those 10 days?

Emily (03:28)

What didn't we do in those 10 days? We did so much. I took Dexter for a walk and he had the sun on his face, which I think a lot of people kind of think is a really weird thing, but it was the most beautiful, beautiful thing. We sung songs, we danced, we watched Disney films together. I had lots of memory making done, so I've got a cast of Dexter's face, I've got his feet and his hands. I had a professional photographer come home. We were really lucky and had a ⁓ photography shoot at the hospital but I wanted a normal newborn shoot. So a professional photographer came to the house and took photos for me which are beautiful and I really treasure them, they are lovely. Dexter went into every room in my house, he went into the garden, singing, dancing. We did everything I could possibly think of doing in those 10 days.

Natasha (04:27)

And you already had Rosie. Yes. And do you think that really helped Rosie, to heal?

Emily (04:32)

I think, I truly believe it really helped her to process her grief. To actually, not even just process it, to understand grief. 

Natasha (04:39)

How old was Rosie?

Emily (04:40)

She was two and three months when Dexter was born. although obviously I knew he was terminal, trying to explain to a two year old that yes, there's a baby in the mummy's tummy, but he's not going to come home was really hard. But actually bringing him home and being able to explain that he wasn't going be able to stay.

And her thinking he was asleep and that that was him preparing to go to where he needed to go felt easier for me. It was easier for her to understand. I personally think it would have been really upsetting for her to have gone the whole nine months pregnancy with me and then not to have seen him and not to have experienced that. I think that would have been mentally a lot more of challenge for her.

Natasha (05:24)

Yeah and definitely for yourself to be able to you know deal with both grief.

Emily (05:29)

Yeah, I think that's the thing is that those 10 days, although they were extremely sad, I've got such lovely fond memories of having both my babies together, watching films together, dancing together, going for a walk together. I've got such memories that are going to last a lifetime.

Natasha (05:51)

So did you have an amazing team around you who told you that all of this because I had Buddy as you know and I did have amazing bereavement midwives and they were amazing but they never ever said to me like I could get his feet cast or I could have his hand cast or they took footprints like just with the ink pads but no one ever made me aware that I could ever do any of those things and through my seven years of grieving for Buddy and keeping his memory alive and talking about him. I have known like of all of these different things, but actually during that moment when my brain was so hazy anyway and I couldn't figure the information out myself, no one actually presented that information.

Emily (06:35)

I think I was a little bit more fortunate than a lot of grieving parents because I think a lot of grieving parents, obviously every story is very different, but a lot of grieving parents are kind of thrown into that grieving process without anticipating being in it and there's not very many women that get a terminal diagnosis that continue their pregnancy. I did have, whether it was lucky or not, I was lucky enough to have time to research everything that I wanted to try and do with him.

Whereas I think a lot of women are thrown into grief expecting to take their baby home, not expecting to be working out how to cremate them or bury them. So I think I was fortunate in that case. I was originally against taking Dexter home. I was told about it. I had a bereavement midwife, she's phenomenal. Her name's Harriet at the Tunbridge Wells Hospital. She is one of the most amazing women I've ever met in my life.

She came to my house when I was 28 weeks, I think, and we went through all different options. And she said to me about that I could take him home. And at that time, it wasn't something that I had even considered, hadn't thought about. It wasn't on my radar. Why would I want to do that? Like that wasn't anything. Then being in the thick of it, was kind of, it wasn't even for me a case of I wanted to take him home. I just physically felt at the time after I'd had him, I just couldn't let him go and I was just searching for how could I not let him go. I'm not ready right at this moment to let him go. I need to find a way. And at that moment I was really fortunate. The funeral home that Dexter went to, they were phenomenal. They were the ones that actually took him from the hospital to my house for me. So there was a team around supporting. I also had an amazing community midwife who I had with Rosie, had the same midwife and she gave me continuity of care and she went to all my scans, she stayed in hospital with me for the 27 hours I was in labour with Dexter, she was amazing so after I'd had him she also was there, she came and helped me cot some of his hair so I could keep some of his hair and we did some, like we imprinted his hand onto a glass like frame and then put some flowers on them, which was really lovely to do. So yeah, it was, I did, I did, I was fortunate enough to have people around me to help me navigate doing what I wanted to do. But it has made me very passionate about doing exactly what you just kind of said, trying to help women to navigate those first few days after having and losing their baby. Because actually it's one of those things that

You only have such a short period of time and if you don't initiate what you can do yourself, you do lose it and you're never going to get it back no matter what happens, that time will never be got back. So I am really passionate in trying to ensure that women know their options. We all choose different but if we know what the options there are, at least we can make the right decisions for us.

Natasha (09:48)

Yeah, and I think like from my own experiences like not being scared to speak up. So I remember them wanting to change Buddy's clothes and or to change him into his out his first outfit and I remember a nurse saying it would be easier to put him into a blue silica gown and but I had chosen an outfit like I had it planned and my sister had to like argue with this nurse to say actually no. She wants that and she knew bringing back Buddy to me in any other outfit was a no and my sister really really stood her ground for me and I think that's really important is like actually it's okay like it's your time it's okay to say I actually want to do this or no you're not putting him in that ⁓ and you do so much to keep Dexter's memory alive.

Emily (10:37)

I'm trying. Trying very hard.

Natasha (10:40)

Let's share some ideas for our listeners who may be navigating this new community that no one wanted to be a part of but we find ourselves in. What ways do you keep Dexter's memory alive that maybe others could?

Emily (10:58)

The first thing I did to keep Dexter's memory alive was ⁓ after he was cremated and everything like that and kind of Christmas had got over and done with, I felt really passionate about doing something in his name. So at the end of last year we started doing, I say we because my family are very strong behind me, but we started raising money for a new cuddle cop because of the one that was broken at the hospital. I wanted to make sure that other parents had that opportunity if they chose to, take their baby home. So we raised the £2,000 that was needed for a cuddle cot and I donated that to the hospital in February. On the back of that, I then, after speaking to the bereaved midwife quite a lot, then realised that actually a lot of women don't take the opportunity. The option is given to every woman at the hospital that Dexter was born at to take your baby home but a lot of women don't take it because they're so scared. Because it is a very scary thing, taking a baby that isn't alive, probably is far more scary than taking a newborn baby that is alive home, even though it shouldn't be. ⁓ But I made then a ⁓ brochure so that it's put in the bereavement suite at the hospital, just showing the things that I did during that time. And I got a text message about...five or six weeks ago from the bereavement Midwife saying that someone had taken their baby home using Dexter's cuddle cot because they read the brochure. So that was really nice. So hopefully more women will start wanting to do that. I've also set up a coffee morning for mums that have lost babies at the Tunbridge Wells Hospital. It's every second Tuesday of the month we get together. We've done it three times now.

Last month's or this month's turnout, actually was really lovely. There was 12 families and lots of love and crying and showing photos of our babies across the table and it was just really heartwarming to all be together and not in a sad way. It was a positive kind of... We all just know what each other feel and it's just nice even just having normal conversations but with someone that understands that yes, on a level you're functioning absolutely fine and day to day happens all the time but underneath there's always a sadness that will never go. And I think having other women that understand that is really important through this journey.⁓ And then

the last thing I'm doing, probably the biggest thing actually, is trying to raise, well we are nearly there actually, but we are raising £10,000 for a baby lost memorial garden at the hospital that Dexter was born at. We've got all the plans sorted out and everything's kind of in motion hopefully. So yeah, hopefully somewhere, a safe space that parents can go to, to grieve but also celebrate their baby.

Natasha (14:00)

Yeah. And we talk a lot about people's inputs and the support we get. What about for people who are listening in that may not have experienced baby loss, but they might meet somebody who, and it might be a friend, it might be a family member who suffered baby loss. What is the best advice we could give them?

Emily (14:31)

think the best advice for me, I find, is talk about him. Make him known. He was here. Death is a taboo subject all around, isn't it? But I think when you lose your mum or your brother or your sister or your dad, people knew them, so they talk about them and they say their name. Because obviously only a select few of people meet your baby, they don't then feel like they can talk about them. But not talking about him...

Emily (15:01)

makes me feel worse 

Natasha (14:39)

Yeah.

than talking about him. Talking about him like he's here and like he was here makes such a difference to the way that I feel at the end of each day that he's been recognised, that he was part of this world, he was here and he is making an impact on people.

Natasha (15:03)

Yeah.Yeah. And I think like, from my point would be is to say, is to drop that “at least”. Like the at least you got to bring one twin home or at least you can have children. Like they're really hard words aren't they? They sound so small. Literally two words.

Emily (15:35)

Yeah, I have had a few times, at least you got 10 days with him. I did, and I'm so grateful for those 10 days, but it was 10 days. It was 10 days with my baby that wasn't alive. It's very different to a lifetime with your baby that is alive. yeah, at least is a hard thing, think, for anyone in a sad situation. I think it's not even just baby loss, is it? In every situation that's sad, at least you didn't get cancer until you were 40. That doesn't make it any better. Yeah. Like, think it's... people need to think before they talk.

Natasha (16:08)

Yeah, and I think people, like I don't know how you felt, but I felt when I heard Buddy, that people felt like they could catch it. And people just distanced themselves and people didn't know what to say, so they just didn't say anything or just didn't come near us.

Emily (16:26)

Yeah, I feel very much like this. The thing I kind of end up saying is, again, back to the cancer or the heart attack or the stroke. Just because you see these things advertised around us that potentially these are signs of a stroke or potentially one in five get cancer doesn't mean you're going to get cancer. It doesn't mean you're going to have a stroke. Just because a lady is talking about the fact that she's lost her baby does not mean that you will lose your baby. It's just...a way of people coping with what's happened to them and also giving information so that if you are ever in that unfortunate situation you're more prepared to deal with it. And I think that's really important is that it isn't a taboo subject, we make it a taboo subject and that needs to start changing and I do feel it is changing.

Natasha (17:15)

Yeah.

And I think as we talk about it, even with older generations who didn't talk about it, I think no one is immune to know somebody else who has lost a baby. So actually talking about it does help. Even older generations go, I did lose a baby. Like my mother-in-law, you know, she had a miscarriage and she didn't talk about it because it's just not what happened. Whereas I think with us telling our stories,

people do come out and say, actually, that did affect me, or my sister lost a baby, you know. And so I do think it is really powerful to keep talking, and you are doing a fantastic job with that. If you could give one piece of advice to a new family, set of parents on this road that we find ourselves on, what would it be?

Emily (18:14)

Gosh. That's really hard because I think there's lots of things I would try and tell people. ⁓ I think it's just be kind to yourself. There is no right or wrong way of dealing with baby loss. You just have to navigate it the way that feels right for you and do what is right for you at the time. And I think try not to have any regrets. Try and put yourself in situations even if it's something you didn't expect that you would want to do, do it because you don't have to look at those photos, you don't have to look at those prints, you don't have to look at... but actually if you don't do it you may really regret not having it at the end.

Natasha (18:53)

Yeah, absolutely. I remember having Buddy's photographs taken and saying, we'll put it on a USB and you can just do what you want with it. And I was thinking, this is such a weird concept to have a photograph taken of my baby who's no longer breathing, and moving them and all these, we put them into special care where I see well. And I just remember thinking, this is so wrong. And that's how I genuinely felt about it. At the time I was like, this is wrong. We're taking photographs of a dead baby. But actually, if I hadn't have had those photographs, I just wouldn't have, yeah, they mean so much more than I could ever actually say. Yeah, and imagine. So when I had Buddy, I fell. And let me know if you felt the same.

I felt that I couldn't leave the hospital, even though Quincy was in special care. I couldn't actually leave the hospital. My body just couldn't physically leave unless Buddy had left too. I just couldn't have him downstairs in a morgue somewhere on his own. just, such a surreal moment. How did you feel?

Emily (19:59)

That was exactly how I felt. I had planned all along that Dexter wasn't going to be left at the hospital. I was fortunate enough that when I left the hospital, Dexter left with me. At the same time, he went with the funeral home. They took him...

Emily (20:16)

to them. He was in West Malling, which is literally, I think I recorded it as like a four minute drive from my house. So in my head, it felt very doable. He's only four minutes away. It's fine. When I got home, my heating had frozen. My pipes had all frozen in my boiler and stuff. So I got into the house and it was absolutely freezing. I picked Rosie up. It sounds a bit surreal. I had a baby on the Thursday morning, drove myself home on the Friday afternoon, picked Rosie up from childcare and went home and sat in my living room after Dexter had gone to the funeral home and was like, what have I done? I need my baby. ⁓ And was really fortunate. I rang the bereavement midwife and she was like, okay, I'll see what we can do. Rung the funeral home and they were phenomenal. They then drove up to get the cuddle cot from Tunbridge Wells Hospital and brought Dexter home to me.

And yeah, we kept him at home then for the 10 days using the cuddle cot.

Natasha (21:16)

Nice, and tell me a little bit more about the cuddle cot. So there'll be lots of listeners that will be like what actually is a cuddle cot?

Emily (21:24)

So a cuddle cot, when you lose a baby in hospital, they're put into what's called a cold cot, which is a very heavy metal, it's the only way can describe it, it's basically a box that's got like, almost like a refrigerating panel inside it that keeps baby cold while they're in hospital. It's plugged in and it's on wheels so you can move it around from room to room with mum as they move around the hospital. When you go home, the option then is a cuddle cot, which isn't really a cot at all. It's a blanket that's filled with distilled water which keeps baby at a certain temperature to preserve them for as long as possible. The idea behind it is that you can then use it with baby and cuddle them if you want to. Because the one that we ended up with from Demelza House actually was called a cuddle blanket, it was slightly bigger, so we didn't do that with Dexter. I would hold him for half an hour. It's slightly weird.

But actually really soothing. Within that half an hour, he would warm up and his little hands, if I held his hand, would be really lovely and warm, which brought some real nice comfort, to be honest. And then he would go back on the cuddle cot for an hour, hour and a half, and then I would pick him back up again and give him more cuddles. And then that's where he'd stay during the evening. The one that we donated came with a Moses basket.

It's quite aesthetically pleasing to be honest to have at home when parents take them home. It means you don't have to... Some people like to use the stuff that they had originally intended for their baby. Some people aren't at the point where they've bought that stuff yet. So the options are there. It's quite a flexible way of being able to have baby at home with you.

Natasha (23:09)

So we spoke about things that are not very helpful for us parents during this time. But what is helpful?

Emily (23:20)

I think for me, is taking time to try and understand that although life is really challenging at the time that you lose a baby, it doesn't mean that you want your life to stop. I think there was a lot of people that just disappeared in my life. And I think they thought that I was gonna just come to a halt and everything around me, but life doesn't work like that. No matter what happens, you have to keep going.

Emily (23:50)

I think people treating you like you're postpartum is helpful. I think there was, I felt very much, I don't know, obviously you had your other twin as well, I felt very much, and I've spoken to quite a lot of mums that very similar, after you've birthed a baby, Dexter was 38 weeks, so I'd gone through a whole pregnancy, I'd birthed a baby, and then...everyone had forgotten that I was actually postpartum because they didn't have my baby with me. And I think that was really challenging for me. I didn't have a six week check with the doctor, which actually I could have done with that mental health check-in at that point. I think there were little things that just people don't think of, but actually you still have just physically birthed a baby, you've still gone through that process. And I think that was actually really challenging, ⁓ which I wasn't expecting. Another thing I hadn't really...thought of that just because you haven't got the baby doesn't mean that you haven't just gone through all of that.

Natasha (24:46)

So I would say just offer a little tiny bit of comfort is I had exactly the same thing. 

Emily (24:50)

I think most women do... 

Natasha (24:51)

I had Quincy and I brought Quincy home. I had no six-week check.

Emily

That’s crazy

Natasha (24:57)

And no one calling. And I even had a health visitor say to me, I'm not sure how I can really help with the grieving. So I won't tell you how to suck eggs and I'll leave. Just call me if you need me. And for me, I'm not the kind of person, anybody who actually knows me who's watching this knows that I'm not the kind of person to pick up a phone and say, I need help. So I found that really tricky that actually no one was checking in to make sure that I didn't need anything extra, anyhow. So I found that really tricky, but yeah, you're not the only one. I think a lot of people. I think that whole part after you've had a baby just gets forgotten because they're like, they're in grief, they can't, like, and that's where that ends, whereas it doesn't. We still need that care.

Emily (25:33)

I think I was, the bereavement midwife has been phenomenal through my journey, but I think that support, it's not her job to do that. I think that's where it's difficult is that you can, I almost clung on to her trying to get the answers and the things I needed, but actually she was the wrong person. But there's no one else around to do that support, which does make it really challenging.

Natasha (26:04)

Yeah.

Really challenging.

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Natasha (26:53)

So we've spoken a lot about our grief. We've spoken a lot about our babies and how people can and can't help us. Let's talk about the process. So once we've had our time with our baby and we've done all the bits we wanted to, we then have to think about a funeral, something no mother or father should ever have to think about. How do you feel about that process?

Emily (27:21)

That was challenging. It was a challenging, and even though I had the time, I didn't really let myself think about that until Dexter had been born and working that bit out. And I think there's, it's like with everyone that dies in their funeral, you want it to be the best that you can make it for them. But actually navigating the loss of a baby and a funeral for someone so small in a box that's so tiny and trying to fit things in, that you never contemplated you'd have to think about. Trying to find the right song was just, I think that was one of my hardest things. think those 10 days that I had with Dexter, I spent a lot of it just playing music, trying to find the songs that fitted him, that fitted the situation, that made it how I wanted his service to feel. ⁓ I think there were lots of things around. I was very fortunate. Again like I said before but with the time I had there were things that I did for Dexter that I think unless you have time to process properly you probably wouldn't. I put my hand prints with paint on Dexter's coffin because I wanted him to feel like I was always with him. ⁓ We had a really big teddy bear that was holding balloons sitting where his coffin went and sat ⁓ because I wanted it to still feel like he was a baby. We were really lucky the lady that took his service read him a book, which Rosie now has at home, which we read quite often. And just little things, I think it's...

Lots of people I've spoken to since have said that that was one of the hardest, that was the hardest day for them. I don't know, I don't think it felt like the hardest day for me personally, because again I had no regrets, I was really lucky, I had no regrets. I made sure that everything I wanted to do for him, I did. I I wrote him a poem that I stood up and read and when I look back at it I have no idea how I read it. I didn't cry and I don't know how I didn't cry.

I think the hardest, the day was hard, I think the hardest thing of the whole process, the whole thing with Dexter was the leaving him. I think that was a moment that will haunt me for the rest of my life. I was really lucky that ⁓ my community midwife came to Dexter's funeral.

Emily (29:59)

And I made a point that I didn't want normally, obviously the front row of a funeral were the first people to get up and leave. And I was like, no, that's not happening. I'm not leaving him in here like a minute before I have to. I'm staying with him until that is it. You're going to be throwing me out. So everyone left and I was left and my community with wife came over and sat with me. And it was lovely actually because she had been there for all my scans and she had been the one that had

heard his heartbeat and felt him kick when she was examining and making sure that he was in the right place and she was there when he was born. So it felt really fitting that we kind of said goodbye, the last final goodbye together. But yeah, was, that was the hardest moment I think.

Natasha (30:45)

Did you have many people come?

Emily (30:48)

There was quite a few people came, I was really fortunate. My daughter's child minders are phenomenal and they came which made it so lovely. I had to select a few and the people I wanted to come, came.

Natasha (31:00)

Yeah, so my husband, he was really closed off. I think he buried his head totally and still to this day, I think he buries his head a bit. And I don't think he'll mind me saying that. But I remember after you him saying he just didn't want anybody there apart from immediate family. So we had like my sisters and my mom and that there. But then one of my friends had snuck in knowing I would need them there.

And actually, that was probably the thing that absolutely meant the most to me. Like, ignore him. Like, I need to be their dad.

Emily (31:42)

I think it is those little things that people do that you don't expect, but you so need. You so need those moments. You need those people to do.

Emily (31:54)

I've got the most beautiful photo of me, Rosie and ⁓ Dexter that one of my friends took that I didn't even know she was taking, but it's just such a “in the moment photo” that I'm so grateful for.

Natasha (32:08)

So grateful for. Yeah

Emily (32:11)

Yeah, so my sister was the one that came for the walk with Dexter and she took photos the whole time we were walking. Which I'm so grateful for now. Memories that, yeah, they're so, so special.

Natasha (32:24)

Did you name Dexter before he was born?

Emily (32:27)

I did, I thought Dexter was a girl up until my 20 week scan. I don't know why, in my head I was like, he was a girl. But I'd already decided on a girl's and a boy's name. And at the 20 week scan, yeah, they kind of said, oh, it's a boy. And I was like, oh my God, is it? I thought it was a girl. Have you got a name? I was like, yeah, Dexter. It just, I don't know. It just stuck from the moment. I've watched a program beginning of last year. I think it was called One Day. And I just really love the name Dexter. We shorten it to Dex sometimes. Rosie's constantly, where's Dex now? What's Dex doing up in heaven? So yeah, it's...

Natasha (33:01)

And let's talk about that sibling side. So I obviously have a slightly different look on the sibling side because Quincy is a twin. So Quincy navigates that totally. And he has like very openly says, his twin lives on the moon. And he'll say, I was the first person to hear his heartbeat. And he says things that I just go, how do you even think about, Quince? But what about Rosie? She was a slightly older.

Emily (33:27)

Yeah, she was two and three months. Obviously she went through the pregnancy with me. She adored him from, it was, I think I've had so many people say like, what was her reaction when she met him? And her reaction was the textbook sibling meeting their sibling. She ran across the room and was almost like, give him to me, he's mine. And like sat there holding him, like looking at his fingers and like, like really, really intrigued at his face and talking about every detail of him. And we kind of, introduced straight away that obviously he was sleeping and he was preparing because he had to go up to heaven Which she understood as much as I think she could have understood at that time. She's now older. She's three next week and she talks about Dexter on a daily basis. She's constantly mentioning him. I get messages from the child minders all the time. We've been out for a walk today and there was a feather on the floor and Rosie stopped everyone and told her that Dexter sent it from heaven for her which is…Yeah, it's something she does all the time. We have a pile of white feathers that she's adamant they've been sent from heaven for her. When she sees butterflies, she's like, Dexter's telling me he's okay, mummy, with the butterflies flying around. And she loves looking up at the stars. She loves telling him off. If there's no stars, she tells him off and tells him that he doesn't have to be hiding. Why are you hiding from me, Dexter? I want to see you tonight. But yeah, she's always talking about him. She talks about, I think a lot of people, I think, thought that she would forget having him home. But actually, as time goes on, she seems to remember it more fondly because I've taken the photos and the videos and we do watch them together and she asks to watch them a lot of the time. She gets his heartbeat Teddy out. ⁓ But she spends a lot of time like, I held him, he loved me, didn't he? I loved him so much. And her thing at the moment is, I love you so much with all my heartbeats. And she always says, I love Dexter so much with all my heartbeats. So yeah, she's...

Natasha (35:25)

I love that.

Emily (35:28)

I don't think even though she was so young, I don't think it's something she'll ever, ever forget. think having that special time with him, I think it's only going to make her the better person than she ever could be. Because actually she's already so compassionate and kind and has been through something that is quite challenging for adults to deal with, but actually she's dealing with it in a really healthy way. And the Baby loss Garden that we've created, we've put a play area in there for siblings.

Natasha (35:38)

Beautiful

Emily (35:59)

Mainly because myself and the other lady, Elise, who lost her little girl, have both got children as well. And I think it's really important that children learn to grieve alongside adults. So we're hoping that when parents go up there, they can take the siblings and they can learn that actually, yes, it's a sad place for my brother or my sister, but actually at the same time, it's a happy place. It's a place to be, to remember them, to celebrate that they were here. So yeah, it was really important to make sure that siblings had an area in the garden.

Natasha (36:27)

I love that. So let's talk about social media. Your TikTok has blown up. What challenges are you facing?

Emily (36:34)

It has, yes.

Emily (36:37)

My TikTok originally was a page of Rosie. It started with just a page of me and Rosie and our little journey, just the two of us. And then two days after Dexter's funeral, I put a video on there - to a trending song - of me, Rosie and Dexter. And that video blew up. And then I posted a video. I think it was

something with his funeral, with a picture of his funeral on there. And that kind of got a bit of momentum and went, and I only had about ⁓ a thousand followers, think, at that point. And then I was like, there was little videos that I just, it just helped me. I found that posting him and having him out there helped me in that moment. A lot of the time it was kind of really late at night when I was on my own and had my own thoughts and didn't know what to do, in the thick of grieving. And actually seeing him on my screen and putting a music that meant something just felt nice to have. And then actually sharing it with other people and having mum's comments, “my goodness, this has taken me back to exactly how I felt” and stuff like that, really helped me in that moment. Unfortunately, after about four or five videos, TikTok banned my account and everything was taken away from me.

And it was just before Christmas and I was like, Oh my goodness, I can't believe they've done that. It's come up with some kind of violation because I had posted something that was, I can't even remember what the violation was, it was something.

Natasha (38:13)

Did you get that original count back?

Emily (38:15)

No, I never got the account back. I ended up setting up a new account and I got really angry with TikTok and I was like, you're not going to stop me from posting my baby. So I found different ways of posting him. My original videos, a lot of them, I didn't show his face to start with. I did a lot of the ones that I was just holding him where you couldn't see his face or I would block his face out. And then as I kind of got momentum and the followers started coming and the support started being there and other mums, I was really surprised by other mums that had lost their baby saying that they were finding comfort in seeing my baby in a normal surrounding. I had literally, I'd wake up in the morning and the account would have gone from 4000 or 5,000 to 15,000. And I had like hundred DMs at one point from people saying how helpful they were finding it they were so sorry and what could they do? And it was just...

It was bizarre, but it was so comforting. ⁓ And then I got one video that has gone absolutely viral and a lot of the comments on there, I had to mentally stop myself from looking at. A lot of them are really cruel, to be honest. There quite a lot of people in different countries that don't agree in even touching a baby that's no longer alive.

I think I've learnt a lot about different cultures actually just through posting my TikToks and having their comments. A lot of cultures like to bury their deceased within 24 hours. A lot of hospitals still abroad don't let parents see the babies that have passed away, which is just, I find devastating. I don't know how I would live every day not knowing what his face looked like. I don't know how I would...be able to continue without that. But I can understand from their point of view how alien it then is to see a mum taking her baby for a walk. I totally get it, but some of the comments are quite harsh. But then on the flip side, the positivity from some women is just really lovely. And I've to touch a few women that have gone through

Natasha (40:21)

Of course.

Emily (40:39)

similar to what I went through with Dexter over the last few months and I hope they'd say but I've managed to help and try and support them as much as I can through those stages. A lady who lost a twin messaged me on and off her whole pregnancy and they didn't know what his outcome would be and unfortunately he did pass away and she messaged me and it was really lovely to feel like I was helping her and she still every now and again messages me and she sometimes comments on my videos, and mentions her little boy and it's just nice that hopefully through my experiences I've then managed to help some people.

Emily (41:16)

But yeah, and I do hope as well my platform has really helped boost CuddleCot. Whenever I post a video explaining what a CuddleCot is or putting a video with Dexter on the CuddleCot or just explaining that that's what I used, the staff at CuddleCot email me all the time, thank you so much for pushing this back out there again. Thank you so much for making it known. They've been so supportive. They've used some of my videos on their social media to try and help…kind of spread awareness because they're the most amazing things, unless you know about them. It's one of those things that people do miss out on that time, which is really sad. Hopefully, I think majority of the UK hospitals now have them, but hopefully we can get to a point where every hospital has them...

Natasha (42:08)

If our baby loss community and even anybody else who is listening to this that wants to know more about your account and to see your videos of your beautiful family, where should they go?

Emily (42:10)

On TikTok I am mum to Rosie and Dexter.

Natasha (42:26)

Love that. And I ask one question that I close every single podcast with and that is what is your love language?

Emily (42:35)

quality time. ⁓

Natasha (42:36)

Of course it is.

Emily (42:37)

Of course. Your whole story is quality time. Thank you so much for joining us.

Emily (42:42)

No, thank you so much for having me. It's been lovely.

Natasha (42:45)

It has been amazing and it has been lovely chatting to you. And I hope that this story reaches lots and lots of people and they will.

Emily (42:53)

I just hope we can start breaking the taboo. Babies that are no longer here deserve to be acknowledged.

Natasha (43:00)

Thank you so much for joining the Project Baby podcast and if you would like to hit subscribe we will see you on the next episode. Thank you for watching.