Single Parents

In this episode of Barely Legal, Morally Wrong, Alix and Mandy explore the realities of single parenting and the assumptions that still surround it.

Following on from their recent discussion on grief, they turn their attention to a topic that is often part of everyday life but rarely discussed openly. From the language used to describe single parents, to the judgement and stigma that can still exist, this episode takes a candid look at the experience both inside and outside the workplace.

Alix shares her own perspective, discussing the responsibility of managing everything alone, the lack of a safety net, and the practical and emotional challenges that come with it. The conversation also highlights the strengths that are often overlooked, including resilience, organisation and independence.

This episode also considers how workplaces respond to single parents, and whether current attitudes and policies go far enough to recognise the realities involved.

It is an honest and thought provoking discussion that encourages a more balanced and informed view of what it really means to be a single parent today.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Welcome to episode eight of our podcast, Barely Legal, Morally Wrong. Alex, what do you want to chat about today?

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Following up from our last podcast where we spoke about grief, I thought it'd be interesting to talk about being a single parent. I think we touched a lot of people with the podcast on grief. I got loads of feedback and I know you did too, from people saying, I went to work through my miscarriage. I did X, Y, and Z. I think sometimes we don't talk about the very ordinary things that are around us. And certainly I'm a single parent, which you know, and there's lots of single parents. We don't mention it in a sort of day-to-day context. But I think generally it's very hard to be a single parent. I assume you're doing the work of two people in a lot of cases. But I also think it's used single mother in particular as a derogatory term. I think there's an element of shame attached to it. I know I often have a laugh with people who have been asked terrible things like, and are all your children to different men? Firstly, I don't think they would say to a man. And secondly, there seems to be no filter in a lot of cases when people ask you things about your status as a parent.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

That's an interesting one, and I think you know, central to it is language again. And we were discussing a lot about language in terms of our clash and rights podcast and how that can cause disharmony in the workplace because of the terminology we use. And also in our previous podcasts for International Women's Day, we touched on the book Bimbo, which basically spoke about the language we still use, which is weaponised often in the workplace, still to sort of punch down to women, and that we don't have a lot of equivalence in relation to men when we are talking, you know, like the word feisty. I think that was a word that you used before. But this is interesting about single mother, and I would say I'm guilty of using that terminology, but often it would be perhaps said in the context of maybe an appeal for a bit more understanding for a colleague or something. If they were looking for time off or holidays, I would be thinking, well, that's a single mother, she might struggle with the school holidays in terms of childcare, but equally it can be used, as you've experienced, to make sweeping assumptions, and there does seem to be a very weighted judgment attached with it. The historical connotation of a single mother is not a nice one.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

It's never said in a good way, I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

I mean that's really interesting. You know, in a world where, again, we've been discussing the importance of language, particularly with the debate around gender critical beliefs against transgender rights, a lot of focus on the labelling and the use of the language to describe those beliefs. And even when we put our sign-offs now, you know, there's a big emphasis on pronouns, but this historical stigma of how we label a female in the workplace who is of a certain marital status with a child has not changed or eroded. And it this should be of particular focus in our diversity reviews and looking at our values, it certainly has a place in the way we know apply policies in the workplace. What is the impact that this is having by continuing to use this labelling? And I would like to hear a bit more from you about how it's impacted and some of the other things that you've seen, not necessarily just from you, but what you've heard through people who've discussed it with.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

So I think first off, you only understand what being a single parent is really like if you're a single parent. So however much people try to empathize with you, and that's to a certain degree, people don't really get it. And it's not often the practical things that people think about. Most of us have friends and family that we can tap into or you buy in childcare. What's very hard, I think, about being a single parent is that the thought is all on you. Everything falls on you about planning your future. There's never a break where you can turn around and say to somebody else, can you take over from me? So there's no, I'm not doing well at work, I might lose my job, that's okay, there's a second salary to live on. And I don't think that ever really goes away, even if you do end up coupling up with someone else, because the child is still your responsibility. And lots of people, once they've been married once, don't want to get married again anyway. I also think you have quite a unique relationship with your child or children because there is only you. Certainly in my case, you know, 80-90% of the time, it's just my daughter and I. Therefore, you're you're very close. And also, my child has to be quite responsible for things because you can't just do things quickly. Certainly when she was young, you know, my mum used to laugh about all of the things that I had delivered from Amazon. And I am fond of an Amazon delivery, but she couldn't believe the toilet roll and the soap powder and all of these things that that got delivered. But there's no one else, you can't say, just I'm just gonna pop to Tesco, you just stay here. It involves buckling a child into a car and and going. You know, everything is a is a journey. I remember during COVID going to the supermarket and the person saying you can't bring your kid in. And I said, Oh, what do you want me to do with her? I can't leave her at home, she's sex. You know, at this point in time, I can't take her around to an older person's house. You are literally strapped together all the time. And and on a financial basis, you're charged for two for everything. Even though in lots of cases, you know, now that she's almost 13, you know, she eats like an adult and certainly would want an adult-sized bed, etc. etc. But going on holiday, you're charged for two people. There's no one and a half. So you pretty much get penalised in in lots of ways.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Yeah. There's no reprieve. I mean, I was discussing with a colleague who is a single parent now, and I was checking in because I was worried about her because I see how hard the work is, and she's forever present, and I do appreciate that sometimes she has to run off to pick up the kids or take them to an appointment or whatever. But actually, the person that I feel is suffering from that is herself, and I'm like, well, when are you getting a break? And when are you taking a holiday? Because I think you look exhausted. And she's saying, I am exhausted because basically I'm doing all my work, but then it's full on again, and right until I go to my bed, there's something. I'm not sitting watching TV or there's no family meal time, it's like cook, wash, clean, help with homework, get the washing done, make sure I've got everything.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

And and that must be how your days are.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

A friend once said that she would like to leave her partner and she'd really seriously thought about it, and then she was staying with us for the weekend for the break. And she said, to be honest, it's not bad enough that I would like to live like this. And actually, it wasn't insulting or anything, it was just factual. I get that. It looks like hard work. More now that my daughter's a bit older and they need you in different ways. But certainly when she was younger, you know, you don't pick a kid up from nursery and they say, right, everybody wants to relax now for a couple of hours. You're literally on the go. You can have very little sleep and keep operating. And you don't want to, you don't want people to feel sorry for you because even though I'm not ashamed of being a single parent or any of these things, you do feel the stigma of it because you know the inference is that you failed at holding together a relationship and there must be something slightly wrong with you.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

I know having kids that are older than Claudia, it doesn't necessarily get easier the older they get because there's different, more adult issues, those years where they're teenagers, they're navigating puberty, they're becoming young adults, and you can't tell them what to do either. You're having discussions and it can be very rewarding because, you know, your child isn't your friend, and we all have to remind ourselves of that. But you can have some lovely moments together, but also very challenging with things like bullying and whatever else comes along with it.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

And it's funny because other people's parents make judgments as well about you. One of the kids in Claudia's class was quite horrified that her parents weren't married. So not just that her parents are separated, but they weren't married in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

And certainly from a legal perspective, you know, there's a lot of new rights coming in, particularly with the Employment Rights Act. But still, there is no specific protections for single parents. There's nothing that recognises, do you know, life might just be a little bit harder for you? The social side of work is very hard.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

So I would have babysitting credits if you like. I could use my mum, I could use friends, but I need to use them for work. And the socializing side of work is a nice to have. Now it's a funny thing, isn't it? Because you build relationships with people on the social side of work, you develop friendships, other relationships. I mean, not so much scenario we've talked about, you know, back in the old days that was how you got a promotion, etc. etc. But it's not really work. So I would feel there was only so many times I could ask for a babysitter or whatever. It's the extras, it's the Christmas party, it's the night out for somebody leaving, it's dinner for whatever. You end up not going to any of those. And certainly, you know, over the years, I could count. I was in my last job at one for 10 years, I probably went to two Christmas parties because it's just not a priority for me.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Also, it wasn't important enough for me to use it as a credit. You know, some of the newer generation should probably just rather have some more money or a yoga class than go to a big corporate event. But that doesn't mean they still don't want to do something that is sociable. It's just perhaps the manner in which you socialise. And I think that something can be lost, and you may lose out in terms of forming a deeper relationship with colleagues. And at the end of the day, you're right, there's the workplace and there's your home life, but you can get to meet people and understand them and maybe how they tick that will enhance the way you work with them, and that you're actually not really getting that option to do that because it's not there.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

So I don't feel bad about it. I think my employers have always been good, and most people's employers are pretty good. They understand that you know you're a single parent, or so the Christmas party, to use an example, is done during working hours. That's fine, you can take part to that. The bit I can't do is the after bit, the five o'clock onwards. And I just think that I'm lucky enough to have this child, therefore I have to leave at five, so I don't get to stay on.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

And maybe that's actually a a very good reason and a good excuse. But I think the point is though, it's about choices, isn't it? And it's just you have to just accept that sometimes you don't have a choice.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Exactly. I don't have a choice. I have a choice. Same as, you know, sometimes client drinks are stuff at short notice or working away or any of these things, they all require a lot more planning in my world than they do in other people's worlds. Because it's only me that I need to ask, and I know what my limitations are around people that I have to support me. And I I prefer not to ask. You know, it's my situation to deal with, therefore, you do miss out on these things.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Do you think it's made you feel more I suppose you did use the word isolating, but resilient, self-reliant. I'm very self-reliant.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

I don't think I find it isolating or difficult that I think I would have done had I been 10 years earlier in my journey. It would have impacted my career and I would have probably found it very lonely and isolating, I think. And I can see why people struggle with it.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

So from your experience, what words of advice would you give to, I suppose, employers looking to support?

SPEAKER_02 12:41

I think there's a really fine line for employers. Every year I used to have my appraisal in my job and they used to say very nicely, what can we do to make your life easier? What can we do because we want more of you? And I used to find that very stressful because the reality was there just wasn't any more of me. If anything, it was getting harder because as time moved on, in my case, my mum, who was my major backup, was getting older and less able to cope. And then, you know, in recent years, as I've spoken about, Claudia became diabetic, and that comes with its own technicalities, and it's now too technical for my mum to look after her through the night. So, you know, that presents its own challenges.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Well, I listened to James Norton at the weekend, he was about to run the marathon. Oh, yeah. His family has type 1 diabetes, and I thought he summed it up well in the sense of he said, at best, it's a real pain every day having to navigate. At worst, it's life-threatening every day.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

And that's an added complication. But people are generally pretty supportive with you. It's the wider societal, oh, you're a single parent. That was the thing I always found quite hard. I would have to say, I can't do that because I'm a single parent. I always felt the emphasis or the the answer people took from that was, oh my god, she's going to be really unreliable. Or she's inflexible, not she's a single parent, my god, she'll make sure she gets that done. Which is what I think when I interview somebody who's a single parent and they're like, So I'm here, I do this, I do this, I do that, and I think, yeah, I can see how you get it all done. I bet your house runs like clockwork.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

But I can see it is like a military operation. I suppose takeaways from this is we should all be stepping back and thinking about the language we use and the judgment we use, but certainly I've seen it from the other sides having parents who were separated growing up. The house could be a war zone with arguments, and I have to say it was much better when they separated. Yeah. And the trauma I could have been left with if that had continued would be much worse than having parents living in different households. And the biggest judgment ever cast on us came from my son when he was about two and a half. And I never thought anything about the fact actually that my parents weren't hadn't been living together when I was younger. And they used to come together occasionally to see my kids, which was nice. And Matthew was down at my mum's house and he said, Where does granddad sleep? She says, He doesn't live here. And he just looked around, he looked around, he went, Oh, and he says, He has his own house. She's like, Okay, it's quite funny.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

And kids are really accepting of staff and much more resilient than we think. And sometimes I think maybe it's in our own heads. I have one good friend in HID who has three children who has the first child to one partner and two children to the man she is now married to. And she's very attractive and young. She's faced a lot of judgment of people saying, Are all your kids to different people? Now, firstly, she's brilliant at her job, so it's absolutely irrelevant who she's got kids to. But secondly, it's not the 1970s. Like it's really not, and it's none of your business. In one case, somebody said to me, you know, my husband's only a photographer, so I'm the higher earners. I might as well be a single parent. And you think, well, if all you think about parenting is about bringing in hard cash, then I don't much fancy living in your house anyway. Maybe us single parents are much more switched on when it comes to the impact of language. But yeah, I think it's the last bastion of language that hasn't changed.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Well, a really eye-opening topic to discuss today, in the sense of something that we should be reviewing because it's been left there, and this sort of acceptance that we can continue with the language. So the plea today is to re-evaluate that.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Don't make assumptions about people is a thing. And also certainly to get up and go on your own, I'm not saying I'm some sort of hero or anything, but takes a lot to say, I will leave someone and I will strike out on my own and I will take this all. Now I certainly had no clear idea of what that would actually mean, but I had a reasonable idea. I think if somebody would rather be on their own than be in the situation that they're in and do all of that for themselves, then they're probably a pretty brave person as it is, willing to do it all. I think you should have a lot of kindness and respect for them. And I think most people do, most people think they're, but for the grace of God, just think before we speak.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Well done. Thanks. I feel I need to leave you to go and check out your magic mirror now.