Boundaries Are the New Bubble Bath

A layered discussion about whether self-care is about comfort, courage, or something much bigger.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Hello everyone and welcome to this edition of the Reboot Diaries. I'm Jesse.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

And I'm Cynthia.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Today we're gonna talk about self-care. And Cynthia is already laughing. I thought this was gonna be the topic we agreed a lot on, and based on our like pre-talk, apparently not. So Cynthia, let's dive in.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

We'll we'll see. I mean, who knows? We we we might see eye to eye on this.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

I will say like self-care should be what it is to like the individual, right? But like I think the goal of self-care might be what is different for different people. But yes, what is self-care to you, Cynthia?

SPEAKER_00 0:54

For me, self-care means doing what you need to do to function in the most optimal way. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Wow. Okay. I'm sorry, I should not laugh at that. Okay. Now tell me what that means to you, like the most optimal way.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

So, okay, so you're up in terms of producing. I mean, whatever it is that you want to do, whether it's living long, whether it's being able to um uh to to perform well with work, um, you know, whatever. I think the goals are, of course, you know, highly personal and depends on what your particular goals are. Um, so for me, there are really only four things that matter when it comes to self-care. And I don't do a good job of three of the four. Um, the one that I do a good job at is hygiene. That's very important for self-care. Um, you know, people always talk about bubble baths. I take baths every day, but that's just because it's harder to fall when you're already sitting down. So I think hygiene is very important. Uh, and then where I really fall short, diet, exercise, and sleep. To me, those are the four things. Like, I just can't think of anything else that's important when it comes to self-care. I think everything else is self-comfort. Now, tell me what you think about self-care.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

I actually think that makes a ton of sense. I think when we like, you know, like right now in this, like maybe just the bubble that like I'm in. I was gonna say like in America, but I'm sure it like varies in different places too. Like self-care and self when we say self-care, we mean what you just described as self-comfort, or what I suspect you mean by self-comfort. So to me, self-care is what it whatever it whatever works for you in terms of like your nervous system relaxing. Because I think then you can do more and can like I think then you kind of it get you to the end results that you were talking about, though, as far as like being able to do the things that are important to you to do in all areas of life. So to me, it's about like the nervous system.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Oh, so you're gonna get scientific on me. I mean that's a scientific as I'm gonna get see I I I look at that as important. And here's the thing: I I I even think that comfort can be important. Um, but I really look at comfort and kind of like what you've described almost as coping. And I'm not gonna say that I don't need that because I do. I mean, like one of my coping strategies, like I don't watch CNN anymore. I used to love CNN. I can't, like, I just can't. Um, but I don't look at that as self-care. I look at that as a coping strategy.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

That I agree with actually. So I think that's like a lot of the one of the reasons I wanted to talk about this like idea of self-care is a lot of conversations that are like I'm coming across right now are like bubble baths aren't self-care. Like they are more that just like band-aid on a severed arm. And I I think I personally agree with that. And it's there's a place for them, of course. Um but I don't think that that's the like I don't think it's enough. But when I hear yours, when I hear hygiene, diet, exercise, and sleep, it it to me it's like it's giving hierarchy of needs. You know what I mean? Like it's like, okay, well, well, yes, if you aren't physically taking care of yourself, then it is hard to emotionally take care of yourself. But if you're not emotionally taking care of yourself, it's really hard to physically take care of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

And I've got to tell you, I I s I fail miserably, uh, especially when it comes to, well, it's interesting because I'm vegetarian. I've been vegetarian for um uh gosh, 30, 35 years. But when it comes to diet, you know, I'm I'm pretty like here's the thing. I recently learned, and people always say this, but I actually met with a nutritionist or dietitian, whatever, who uh I shouldn't say whatever, but whatever, there is a proper term. I just don't know what it is. Uh but anyway, she was telling me the importance of like eating five small meals a day, um, you know, combining, you know, proteins with vegetables and this, that, the other. But it's really important to eat five small meals a day and to make sure that you uh it takes 20 minutes to eat. I would rather eat one very large meal a day and just devour it. And I even asked her, I said, well, can I just take all those little meals and eat them at once and then just wait 20 minutes or wait maybe 17 minutes and then after 17 minutes just eat? And she said, No. You have to spread it out, and you've got to take a full 20 minutes to eat. So when you asked that, were you serious? I was very serious. I mean, it's about it look, it's it's about math. Eating is about math. Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Got it. I mean, in a lot of ways, it is. I mean, that's what like dietitians like do, like are talking about the numbers.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

So I get that.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Yeah, I mean, I don't disagree. I think all these things are important, and I actually think that they are like I think things like exercise, like for me, I think of it as movement. Like movement is a form of self-care. I think there's and it's not coping, to your point. I mean, I think a lot of the like for people who are burnt out and overworking, it'll be like just relax this weekend, and that's so easily said, but hard to do. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

But it also depends on what you consider relaxing to be. I mean, like, I've scheduled my meetings most weeks so that they take place on one day, because like one of the things, and I'll like even think to myself how grateful I am. One of the things that I love doing is waking up really early in the morning and just working from bed in my pajamas. And I just think to myself, like, this is just divine. I mean, I just love it, it's relaxing to me, I can focus. Um, some people would say because there's a product involved, like work, it's not relaxing. But to me, that's much more relaxing than, and it's not, and you know, I love phone calls, I love Zoom calls, but that's much more relaxing than um than a call. And it's more relaxing, honestly, than kind of like getting out. So a lot of people like to hike. I would much rather lie in bed with my pajamas on, with my laptop, than get out and go for a hike.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Uh, my most relaxing morning is actually kind of the opposite, in that it's I think for me, it's kind of the one time of day where, like assuming I wake up before I have to get up, where I can lie there and I feel like I have a more I mean my mind's basically like when I don't have somewhere to be, I get up when my mind starts thinking about other like thinking about things. I was like, well, I might as well get up. There's no point in being horizontal. Like let's do this. For me, it's more the like enjoying the way the sheets feel, listening to the sounds, like that kind of like more in the moment, like aware of, and I tend to disconnect from my body. And so it's really kind of the one time where I'm just like experiencing it. I'm looking at my dogs, I'm thinking how cute they are, like, and mind you, like it is wild to me that this is a way I can experience mornings, given one, how much I hate mornings. Um, and like two, like when I was like burnt out, always working, I would wake up and just be like, oh and like the closest I had was like, but it's so warm in here, I don't want to get up. Like that's that's the equivalent that I used to have.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that's really interesting because as you describe that, I the first word that came to mind is is gratitude. And it's just so interesting in terms of people it can, you know, be grateful for things that might necess that might seem small to other folks, but you know, it's part of your experience that's very meaningful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

I think that if I go back whenever I go back to having to like get up and just get up and lose those kinds of warnings, like that's gonna be not great for my overall well-being, but you know, whatever. Life's gonna life, capitalism makes you get out of bed. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

So do me a favor, recap again what your definition of self-care is.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Oh, so for me, like self-care is what allows your nervous system to like chill, relax, be able to therefore do things in a in a way that's meaningful to you. Um but like the focus right now is for me, like my self-care is like what's gonna like prevent me from being overstimulated, what's gonna prevent me from being crabby, you know, like what's gonna allow me to just kind of like be who I am in my most natural state, which is something that I is much it's a much different Jesse than I realized it was.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Okay, so you said something interesting, and that was natural state. And the thing that I was thinking about before you said that was okay, what you know let makes you less anxious calms your nerves. Like the first thing I thought about was, you know, substance abuse or you know, drinking. Like, is that a form of self-care if people use it to self-medicate?

SPEAKER_02 11:38

I don't think a lot of those things actually let your nervous system like relax and enter a natural state. It is a medicated state.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Okay, so your whole thing is the state needs to be natural.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

I think for self- I think that's the difference between coping and care. I think like that's the big difference. And so for me, like I very much have an addictive personality. And I like realized that kind of like weirdly young because I was in the hospital and I had all those medications and stuff like that. So for me, like the idea of medicating with like drugs, that kind of like self-medicating, like is not appealing to me because I know how my brain works. And I know that it wouldn't, and like honestly, let's be real, I know multiple people who have quote unquote self-medicated, and I've never seen it gone well in the long run, go well in the long run. I've never seen it like it just it I've only seen it with like people do it, and it just feels like denial. So, like to me, a a red flag is when someone's like, like every weekend I do this all weekend, or every night I do this all night because it like allows me to detach. And I'm just kind of like, that's not so fair. Like that's you know, a lot of people have a lot of resistance to like medication. Um, and so that's who in my experience, most of the people who do that are people who just don't want to take medication because of the biases they have against medication or like the very real concerns that they have about like what it would mean for like their body to be a medication because it doesn't work for everyone, right? Um, and I don't think that like, yeah, I mean, like basically it's like there's what what healthy coping skills look like, I do think are different than everyone. Like, you I don't know if we've gone about like have you heard my rant about meditation? Are you pro or against? I'm neither, but I remember this like mindfulness class I took through um my like healthcare system at the time. Like, in order to get to like the trauma classes, you have to start with the mindful class. And I remember like they asked, and it was really you know good that they asked, like, you know, like like what are people's like resistance to meditation? I was like, I just generally feel like when something's so hyped, it's never gonna be as good as people say it is. Whether it's a movie or meditation, I'm always like, it can't be that great. And that was my view of meditation at the time.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

And what is your view now?

SPEAKER_02 14:21

I think that different. I think now I understand all the different types of meditation much better than I used to. And I think different brains work different ways. And I I've never ever been skeptical that like for people who it they say like it helps, I've never been skeptical about that. Like, of course, like it uh I trust you that it helped you, and this mode of meditation helped you. And I very much believe that. I think it's hard for those of us who have brains that are constantly going, and people will be like, well, that's why you need to meditate. And I'm like, fair, but it's hard for us who have brains who are really going to like do that transition into meditation.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

I I agree, I share your perspective. I agree with you. I know I do, I really do. I I have heard people who do meditate, I've heard of people who do medication medication, meditation, and they swear by it. Um every time I've tried, I've been thinking about all the things that are not getting done. And I'm just thinking about my lists and what I can do once it's over.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

You are very productivity focused.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

And I'm I'm I'm just chatting, or chat, I'm laughing because I see why you might say that. I just I don't view it like that, but I definitely see why you would come to that why you have that assessment.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

How do you see it?

SPEAKER_00 16:06

I just look at it as there are only so many hours of the day, and you know, I need to get things done. And I've just really gotta be careful in terms of how I spend my time. And for me, it's a thing of I do I think factor in fun stuff. Like this conversation is fun. I mean, this is something that I look forward to. Um, but I can only factor in so many fun things, you know, when I've got deadlines.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah. Do you think you can go too far? I mean, even if we're talking about self-care, uh, in your definition of like hygiene exercise, do you think you can do too much self-care? Is that a thing?

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Not within what I'm talking about. In fact, I don't do enough. I mean, when it comes like the sleeping, I get so excited in terms of what I'm working on. I, you know, will go to bed with the laptop on my lap and then put it to the side and then just dream about new ideas and then be excited to wake up. Um, and so that interferes with uh sleep. And it's a thing of maybe I need to kind of like re-examine that, examine that, understanding how like biologically important sleep is. Um you know, I cannot remember the last time I got eight hours of sleep. Uh actually, I do. It was this is March. I got eight hours of sleep once earlier this year, uh, when I was at my parents' house. I I I think that my list of things when it comes to sleep, walking, diet, hygiene, all of those are essential for the whole care piece. Um and then I think that, you know, and I look at that in terms of self-care in terms of self-directed care. But then there's also kind of just like the care when you've got to engage somebody with expertise, uh, you know, and that just means going to the doctor and making sure you get your checkups and you know, follow through. Uh I mean, I think that that's something that's really important, uh, but not, you know, that's you know, there's another party involved with that. It's not self-directed, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

What would you say to people who hate showering?

SPEAKER_00 18:48

I don't understand that. Honestly. I I I just don't. Um, but you know, different people have different hygiene habits. I I know somebody who, or I know somebody who has to have like three showers a day. And this is not somebody who smells or anything. He just really enjoys showering three times a day. Um, I would not enjoy that. I but I can't go to bed without taking a shower or a bath rather. If I'm at home, I take a bath or out like at a hotel or wherever, I take a shower. But like I I can't I can't rest well without being clean before I go to bed.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

I mean, yeah, I mean it's a different, like it is a very like, I mean, to me, like affects your nervous system a lot. That like, I mean, there's like scientific studies that are like contact with water lowers your heart rate, like things like that. So it makes sense, like especially taking a bath, because that's a very different experience. Um like taking a cold shower will wake you up, taking a hot one will relax you, taking a bath will relax you. Like I don't know, I've read about this just because I remember one of my friends, like they're somebody told them to like take a hot, like to take a bath instead of a shower because it'll relax them at night to help them sleep and things like that. Um I hate showering for reasons I think you might approve of. It's just not how I want to spend my time. Why would I spend my time doing that when I can watch the equivalent of your K drama, or I can work on something I'm excited to work on, or I can do something for someone that I think is important to them.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Okay, so I have an answer to that. When we were younger, and I am going to be so bold to say that I believe you share this fantasy also, and that is you can watch television while you're taking a bath.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

You can while you're taking a bath. I've absolutely like when I was in my house and I had like a nice deep bath, and I had this like, you know, the stand and I could put my pet on it. Like, it's not my ideal bath, but especially when I'm trying to like soak my legs in salt and stuff like that. I I that's where I would watch my like K-drama equivalent, like for sure.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

And then even in the shower, you put in an earbud and you put on a shower cap.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

You're putting an earbud in in the shower? Yes, but you have a shower cap you put over it. It's no different than sweating if it gets wet. So if I'm in the shower, I'm washing my hair, because otherwise it's such a fast shower, I don't even count it as a shower. Like that's where we're different. Like I have to do.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

That's where we're different because I have a much different hair routine.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Yes. So for me, it's like I can take a bath, but then I'm gonna be like soaking in all the conditioner in the water and like um I wash my I wash my hair in the bath. Yeah, and that's where it's just kind of like I don't like not like, ooh, how can you do it as much as I'm just like, but then I gotta rinse off after the shower and you know what I mean like I'm like a well I don't your conditioner is different than mine so I'm in a way that I'm actually surprised that you don't do like that rinse off like because you probably use a pretty like thick conditioner. I do yeah yeah um yeah well the scalp gotta be washed all the time and my hairs to this like my hair has become the great pain of my love my my life with all the different textures and so anyway but like it also feels really good to like lie back and have your hair in the water like oh I love that so that that like I I miss baths I miss baths so much.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

I that is the best feeling when you're in a bath and you just go under oh I love I oh like I'm the person I don't love it enough to want to go in the bathtub right now I only like I do not like getting wet in the daytime. It has to be at night when I take a bath or a shower.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Well I will I will curveball you in that like I do love how long we're taking showers. I will curveball you in that also my leg can swell sometimes in showers and then there's this like whole practical aspect. So I do have to shower at night mostly I have been showering more in the morning um partially because like my job involves so much sweating that I want to go in as clean as possible. But I want to really dive into your least favorite type of self-care comfort whatever you want to call it vacations that don't involve family.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

When was the last time you did this okay so it depends on what you really call a vacation the I call trips vacation so I would say the last time I had a vacation would have been oh over Thanksgiving I went to visit my cousin in Amazon I said that does not involve family oh that does not involve family yeah I can't remember when that was maybe it was when it may have been when I went to Hawaii with my friends Tiffany and Emily and Subina um which was probably three years ago um and I got outvoted. Where did you want to go I I I was no I was fine with going to Hawaii because I've never been but I wanted to go and stay in town. I like towns I don't like beaches and we and I like to be by myself so we ended up going to like you know a luxury resort that um you know I just it I okay I really enjoyed being with them. Yes but you know I'm gonna assess everything so yes everything is beautiful but it's just like really these cocktails are $18 and it's high fructose syrup we're on an island full of fresh fruit and this is what you're feeding us. Yeah um so I just when thing put it like this when things are very expensive that's when I just start critiquing. If something is averaged price you know it's just like whatever. So it was it was a good vacation because I got to hang out with my friends I don't need to go back.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

It's almost like you should use a travel agent to find something that makes everyone happy 110%.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

And I've got to tell you the great thing about using a travel agent is that you can always blame it on the travel agent. I mean it's just she said this is what we need to do to compromise so you know you got this so we're gonna get that I'm gonna get that but no I you know I I agree 110% if you're doing something uh especially like if it's something that's more than just uh like an Airbnb like I went to Las Vegas with uh some of the same friends and we just ended up getting in a this was during COVID an Airbnb in Las Vegas and just had a great time hanging out. That's one thing. But when you're talking about you know a trip with attractions and you know budgets and 100% travel agent when you're dealing with different people.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

That and it's like I that's one of my selling points that I think people don't understand until they're in the situation. And that's why I help someone with a bachelorette party is it's like there's so many people involved that it's like how do you prioritize how you know like researching the things that meets everyone's needs I do think is important um I know someone who does travel like in a group sometimes and I think that like a non-family group like a group of friends and like when you all know each other like that can work really nicely because the big there is this emphasis on quality time together. I don't need that with friends to be in a destination I want to experience the destination um and it's very important to me who I travel with and I like different travel partners like it's a different experience for sure. I also like traveling alone um though I I think I am smart about where I do that to and making sure that I'm not taking risks that are not smart. Important yeah like I have a male friend that goes and like does all these things and like is in situations I was like the way I would have been murdered like six times by now like that's not I don't want to have that mindset but you can't not you can't not wear a woman.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

I have a friend who a male friend who was drugged when he was on vacation and they drugged him to get to the girl he was with mm-hmm yeah so like one of my male friends who's done a lot of traveling more recently like it's like you just gotta live life I was like you get to like just do that.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Like let's keep it real not to like be too serious. So but there's plenty of places that I love luckily that like I can't do that. Like I can go to New York alone like I love it. Um because I'm not doing things like I don't want to interact with the people in a way that like I'd be in that situation. I'm I'm at the museums let's be real I'm walking through Central Park. But when I went to Hawaii for the first time snorkeling's my favorite thing in the world and the Airbnb host because it was like a like an in-law unit in their backyard um they actually like laughed at how much we were going out about and she's like usually people just like chill in the garden or just chill at the beach and I'm like I need to see seed turtles like that is the mission. That's why we're here um so for me I do tend to like go go go but it does depend on the location um I can sit at a beach for a very long time but I also live have lived in California towards the coast so I want to do things like look for turtles that I can't do here as opposed to sit on the beach more. But also I'm happy to sit on the beach. But yeah I I think I so I just took an amazing self-care trip that I don't think you will agree was fun that sounded fun I went to Death Valley.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

So wait you went to death death valley for care.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Yeah now this really this was self-care not self-comfort this was self-care okay I don't think death valley is where I would go for self-comfort so much I think I think the couch in the beach might be more the self-comfort okay so tell me about this trip to Death Valley and and this about talk about death valley because I'm going to be honest of course I've heard the term death valley I don't know what it is it's like the driest place maybe I think in like America and it's got some of the lowest elevations if not I think the lowest elevation like below sea level um like when we were in the lowest part of the park like the basin that they have I was like there's like a sign up on like the like mountain there and it's like sea level and it was far enough away I couldn't get like a picture where you could read what sea level said like it said sea level um it is desert desert it is desert desert desert and so it's called Death Valley because nothing can really thrive there I mean things that thrive there have adapted to a very unique climate. So like what lives there uh something called pupfish do you want to see my little pupfish pin? Uh it it just looks like a guppy. Um there's water in Death Valley so this year I would like to say fate did me a solid because the weekend that I went with a friend, the weekend that they could do was like ideal wildflower viewing weekend coincidentally and I specifically was like we're gonna go I want to go look at wildflowers as that interest you um and if there's no bloom we'll just cancel the trip. It's not like we're in a not refundable hotel. So it gets during the summer it gets like the average temperature is 120. It's really hot that is very hot and it's very very dry and uh you know because desert but this year because of the rainfall like some record rainfall like there was an unusually high number of blooms. It wasn't a quote unquote super bloom but there were so many flowers my friends and I my friend and I were like well what does a super bloom look like there's flowers everywhere. So it was fun like I got we basically got to like search for wildflowers and like try to find different wildflowers and all that kind of stuff. I really now want a new digital camera like a nice digital camera because my digital camera is like 20 years old um because I couldn't take very good pictures with my phone which was a bummer but um like to me it's like yeah I was like living my best life I was with someone I love I was doing something really fun and I to me being somewhere without reception was integral to my experience um and I was anxious going into it because I haven't camped for years. My friend would argue we didn't my friend would argue we didn't camp and I was like I was in a tent not on the floor but in let's like a non-cozy situation it was camping. Okay here's kind of how I think about camping honestly is there indoor plumbing so that is where I I don't want to go into like TMI with people but let's just say like I do require access to a toilet like it does it can be a pit toilet even like I'm I'm at that point where I've like accepted pit toilets in my life but I just like I did pick a place with plumbing and hot water. Okay so you had a stretcher to sleep in that had indoor plumbing oh no no we were in a tent and then you walk over to the building that has the toilet again they did right by me and I was on the end we were on the end of the line and so like it was like a very short walk but the way I was like it's kind of nice I'm dehydrated because usually I have to pee at 3 a.m and I don't want to be getting up in the middle of the woods beating foxes and bats at 3 how many times I got up in the middle of the night to pee last night? Yeah I I would not at all oh my gosh that that I mean it's just hard to believe that that's a choice I mean that's kind of how I feel about my friend who literally you could just give a sleeping bag and they would be out in the dirt so basically we went into it like I'm gonna be in this tent I don't care what you do. So this is Jesse's tent. Jesse will be in the tent you go live your best life um it but it does because it's the desert it does get very very cold at night because it was hotter than their average days have been it didn't get as cold at night but like I did wake up because I was cold because the picture that they have of this setup online was not accurate. There was not like an army blanket there was like what looked like a shower curtain like okay well this is a cute blanket but uh it was cold.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

So all right so going back to my original question there was water in that year.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

So there was there was water this year there was water okay um and to the point and this is very unusual to the point where like the salt basin I took so many pictures of salt it's it's low-key funny um the salt basin usually dries out and you get these cool hexagons and that's what people go to that for it was covered in water there were no hexagons from like the dry out and the crystallization it was covered in water which was beautiful but also like I guess I'll have to come back to see the hexagons like it was an unusual amount of water for sure because of the recent like how recent the rain was um but also like I went to Uluru in Australia one of two days it rained so I like seeing places that look different in different weather I mean most places do but things that are mostly rock look very different. And I got to see you know I'd like geology like I'm rock nerd like and so seeing all of the different it's very very diverse geology wise and so like I felt like I was in like five different parks. It's a huge park. But yeah so anyway so for me I could just like and I think who I was with mattered a lot too like this is someone I feel very safe around and so for me and I found out they had been before and so then immediately my nervous system like was like oh you don't have to worry about anything like you're good to go. So like as we you know drove five to six hours like I could feel my nervous system like relaxing more and more and more got quality time with someone got to see beautiful things like it truly is one of those like this is like a like I don't want to be like I was in awe like but I was just kind of like look at that that's amazing so that like novelty. So anyway so that that kind of detachment letting my brain receive different stimulations like that all felt back and I that like amazing and I came back even with like you know like no trip's gonna not have any obstacles like the bathroom building you would have said is not a bathroom building it literally it's like it's what in real estate they call a teardown. Like it was wild that that building was still standing to the point where like my low maintenance friend was like I don't know if I'm gonna shower and I was like oh I'm not showering I can tell you that right now like I'm getting an infection in that shower. This place was described as good in a pinch like and because we planned it so late that's all we could do right that's all we had available. But anyway um so yeah like now I feel like oh I would go like proper camping, you know, as long as there's a toilet things like that. Um it just felt very like people are like touch grass and I was like is this what they mean like I just you know it gives you it I feel like it just gives a little perspective when you're out of like the hamster wheel that we're in you know in our day-to-day lives and it was just everything I needed it to be and more I needed to feel far away and then I get to like come home and be happy to be back with like my family and like except you know I felt like I was gone forever and I was gone for two days.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

So that's really interesting. So that's something hmm I I think I I've heard people love camping that just hasn't been you know my ex lived experience.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

I wish that I'm someone who physically could do backpacking. I think I would really like that if it wouldn't um be miserable for me. I would love that experience if it wasn't an awful one for me.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Because you feel far away in this like wonderful wonderful way the look on your face you're like no I I you know it's a thing of where different people have different interests and um you know I I can see how that would be appealing you know to me you know I don't know scenery seems great I just watched Jurassic Park last night and like they had great scenery um so like I kind of feel like without the dinosaurs I feel like that was kind of my little taste of nature and all of that good stuff. For me I can experience it just you know with pictures I don't need to actually be there.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yeah I mean that's convenient and I I would love that and I'm very visual so looking at pictures is helpful. My friend this is where one of the ways he and I don't know the many ways this is one way where we're very different. I do take pictures um one of the reasons I like being around them is they rarely have their phone out though they did have to like work a little on this trip. I was like you're in Death Valley how are you doing work right now? But I like taking pictures like one like I wanted to take pictures of flowers to like practice drawing and things like that. But um whenever I'm having like a moment where I feel like frustrated my cup's not more full like or I'm feeling you know just kind of beaten down by things like because I'm visual I do go and I look at pictures and it's like it it gets me back in perspective about like actually like you're really lucky in a lot of ways right now like the struggles are totally totally real it's not to um deny that but it's just kind of like it puts me like they say scent does this but for me I'm so visual that it might I'm always like stuffed up like looking at this one picture I'm gonna send you with like the moon and this like pink clouds I'm like it just takes me right back into the moment. It takes me right back into the moment um seeing pictures of people I love like seeing pictures of me like I sent like three people this picture I was like look how pretty and free and happy I am like that makes me happy seeing myself happy I'm just kind of like yeah you can still do that. When we um we did breakfast because there was like a restaurant by where we were we had breakfast and I was like maybe I'm not super depressed all the time. Maybe like life is just depressing. Because I'm like singing to my eggs right now. Like that's one of my things I would encourage people to do when you're like trying out different self-care self-comfort whatever is it's like learn what your ideal nervous system looks like and sounds like to you because that's how you'll know if something's like really going to impact you positively. So for me I'll like what do they call it I'll see what I'm doing and stuff like that a lot I'll be like um go into the post office like I'll just kind of like do that but when I do that especially when I'm like kind of wiggling and dancing when I do it like that's when I'm at my best state and I'm with people I'm the most comfortable around that is how I know that I'm succeeding at self-care.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Yeah and I think that that is it really kind of also highlights the point that self-care means different things to different people. It's almost like we're trying to get to the same destination but we just have different pathways. Yeah and we might use different words to describe what is a similar physical state do you think rest can be productive Oh 110% I mean there are times where I need to take a nap in order to get back up and be focused. And at least with me you know if I don't get enough sleep and I haven't been getting a lot of sleep lately you know you can of course tell in my eyes and the bags and this that the other but also has an impact on how I feel I mean my legs hurt so much worse when I don't get enough sleep.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

So yeah I think sleep is critical I will say well it's not just sleep physical rest and like vegging out do you think that is productive if you do it intentionally this is the thing I really really would point out to people there's a difference between like oh my God I just sat and watched like five episodes where did the half day go. And like, you know, like it's like today's kind of a struggle. I think I'm gonna like take a half day to like sit and bench out.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

And that's the thing. I think it depends on whether, at least for me, it depends on whether or not I feel overwhelmed. Because you do get to or at least with me, I get to the point where my mind is just like I'm done. I can't take anymore. Yeah. It doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen. And if I, you know, if if it's not a thing of where I am facing, you know, a critical deadline, I kind of will stop and just kind of veg out and then you know come back fresh and revisit. That doesn't happen very often. Uh but I will. I remember once I got really really sick. It was a Friday and I had some work that was due and I was collaborating over the weekend with people or maybe something was due Monday. And um I remember literally thinking I was going to die. I mean like I try I had uh norovirus and I remember trying to call my cousin who's a physician to let her know everything that I ate and did just so to help with the autopsy once they found the body but I was just I was too tired. Bottom line is I had this deadline but I justified it saying dead people can't be accountable for deadlines. And so I say that just to say that there are times where you kind of just get you know to the point where you just can't function anymore. Right. And um you know in those instances I think that is it's really important to detach yourself from whatever it is that you're working on to take care of yourself.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

And that's the kind of self-care that I think was the was very very hard admitting what my body needs is not my forte for all the obvious reasons as well as the like typical ones that those of us who are like for whatever reason overachievers tend to subscribe to. Have you ever resented the idea of self-care? I know you resent the idea of taking a vacation and not working but other than that have you ever resented self-care?

SPEAKER_00 46:28

I mean self-care kind of like how I think about it. I just don't do I mean I need to I just don't do it. I mean I don't follow the diet that I would make me work the best and I think that a lot of that goes back to comfort and just instant gratification. I mean like there is a sense of comfort like every day I have a huge salad with a lot of stuff that's fattening like cheese and cashews and avocado on top of you know the regular salad stuff and then I have baked fries with it. There's half sweet potato half white potato there is something that is so gratifying about that meal and so comforting for me about and I I I literally eat the same thing every day. So um this whole idea of self-care being these five meals a day that is care but it's not comfort.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

Mm-hmm so you get not resentful but like annoyed when it's making you go into care instead of comfort?

SPEAKER_00 47:38

I just don't comply.

SPEAKER_02 47:40

Uh okay so you don't get resentful because you just ignore it.

SPEAKER_00 47:43

Exactly and I know that I shouldn't just ignore it just like I know I should be getting seven to eight hours of sleep every day. I know that I should be going on you know a 30 minute walk every day. I do good in terms of working out with my little uh exercise I do a good job of that but I really also need to supplement that with um you know with walking which I'm not uh which I'm not good at the only thing that I kind of like have mastered on my list um is the hygiene piece and that's just because I really enjoy taking a bath at night and I cannot go to bed with elements of the outside in my bed. Mm-hmm like I can't even I can't even sit on my bed with street clothes.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

I was just gonna say you can't sit on your bed with your outside clothes. No mm-mm like you're not alone there's a lot of people who say that and I I get it um I have a specific part of my bed that when the comforters closed I can sit with my street clothes just to like put on socks and that's it. But even that was not always true. I resent self-care when I feel like it's something that's harder for me than your average person. And then it's like am I resenting self-care or am I resenting my body? Like that gets really complicated. So like I was with an acupuncturist and the way that she explained this to me was very effective but also like triggering like she she did a good job. So it's not a criticism of her that it was triggering um she's like honestly like you know I answered all the questions and blah blah blah and like she's like you have a you know a qi deficiency and I'm like yeah I've been told that before actually um and like and she is life so here you have a life deficiency is a whole um but you know she said like what you eat is gonna affect you a lot and she's like it affects everyone a lot it is going to affect you significantly more than your average person and I was like well I don't care for that so I get kind of resentful that you know like when you grow up and everything is technically harder not everything but a lot of things are technically harder than the person sitting next to you like you just burn out on it. And I'm pretty burnt out on it. I'm doing a lot better than I was like 10 years ago in that realm even five years ago but exercise is the really hard one for me. And I think early on we talked about how people would be like like suggest things and it's like like I've really I've never thought of going for a walk I've never thought of that. That's like and it's like best intentions etc but it's and it's like if I don't know someone they don't know me like they don't know this is longstanding or whatever. But like for me this idea and every time I meet someone who actually understands this who is trying to help me with movement really they do really hear like it's very complicated for my body because usually what benefits one part of my body actually is not good for another part of my body. So it's this very house of card situation because people be like you know when looking for a job it's like I can't do that because I have to stand all day. They're like oh here's this computer job I can't do that because I can't sit all day like I have to move and they're making changes in my role right now that's going to be a lot more sitting and a lot less movement. And I'm like this is going to destroy me. Like I like the best thing for my physical wellbeing right now is the fact that I'm really half and half sitting and moving and no standing still you know like and like I feel I'm losing that and it really bums me out. But like you got to do what you got to do for an extra dollar an hour. Like so anyway so that's where like that's where this like your particular list becomes a lot more frustrating for me. And for me reframing has helped a lot because like when I walk the dogs it is technically a very important thing for my body and when I think of it as quality like intentional couple time with my husband getting to see sunset some days like that is motivating for me instead of this like I have to move for my well being so that framing is something that like it's taken me a really long time to do. I need to get back in the pool and I'm trying to be like this is for your mental wellbeing even though it's gonna have a very physical impact. Did I tell you they told me I might be able to run no catching catching listeners up. So I have a prosthesis it's step in I'm missing part of my leg like just missing like a bone and I got messed up bones, whatever. So I have um I have like a step in brace that I use that makes my ankle in particular stronger uh like holds it um because it's just super weak and then it compensates for like a length discrepancy, right? And when I was young young like I could run, I played soccer, like it was a little like less graceful perhaps, but like I could do those things as I got older the brace had to change blah blah blah um I have like no spring in my step so I can't run I can skidaddle I can like power walk out of there but even when like you know living in you know living where I used to live police would be like just drop your stuff and run. And I'm like okay for those of us who can't run what should we do? Drop my stuff and power walk? Like oh like that's what I'm gonna do I guess. But you know that that to me was always really frustrating because I'm just like all right calm down. I I I get why you're saying it. But they're changing a couple of things about my brace and they were like would you be willing to try like this and this and it's gonna require like physical therapy so that it's not you know for your body to adjust to different alignments. And I literally was like they were talking about another they were like we can pick we can basically put some spring in your step is the non-technical way to say it. And so I paused and I was like would I be able to run and they were like yeah like why are you asking that like they didn't understand that that would be a very big deal. Yeah so I was like they're like well like maybe not like a marathon we can make you like a proper and like it would be a very physical like I couldn't wear like clothes. I couldn't wear anything like longer than my knee if I were to do like a proper running thing. But even that used to not be an option for me. I was like well I don't have you know $15,000 to just buy that running like for fun. But yeah so I got like really excited and I told them I was like look if if I can run I'll do all the physical therapy because I don't know what it feels like to run. And I don't want to be a runner. I don't want to run a marathon but one it would be great for my anxiety if I could run in an emergency situation and two I just like want to know what that feels like physically because I don't fascinating yeah I'll be like oh my God if I can get my like endurance up I can like run just like run from here to there. That'd be very exciting. So I'm like super pumped because they haven't said the thing I normally hear by now which is like actually we can't so if they say that it'll be Wednesday of next week so we'll find out I also freaked the person out because there's three of them actually working on me. Um and the main guy went to I I mean I looked up all these people obviously don't you look up your doctors like and so I went in I was like oh like the second time I was like oh hey we went to like we went to the same undergrad at like the same time and he looked so weirded out was like how did you know that I looked at him I was like my ability to walk depends on you. You don't think I was gonna Google you exactly like verbatim just like that with that tone and he was like he was like oh okay and then the other guy laughed and he I actually love this guy and he was like what'd you find out about me? Okay that is adorable he's like adorable what did you find out it's like nothing it's very impressive. He's like I've worked very hard on that you exist I know what you did and I've seen like you you like commented on posts on LinkedIn um he's like yeah there's a doctor in Germany with my name and so like it's mostly just about him. I was like I know I I I know a lot about him but he's not you like so it was really cute. And so I think for me like I mean my point for everyone when you're thinking about the parts of self-care that you don't like um often exercise and diet is like what's the framing that makes it feel like this less like a like burden or a task and more like the parts that make you relax like taking a bath instead of a shower and then getting to pull like put your head back and feel that like scalp delightfulness. Like what are the things that actually make it more tolerable and it's hard for people like me that like even if I had you know my left leg was the same as my right leg like I don't I wouldn't want to play baseball still so I'm not saying like lie to yourself but that's I think you know framing is how you survive life in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 57:18

Um and I mean it's just a thing of where you just I get it. I mean you want to be able to run it's not that you want to run a marathon or play baseball or this that the other you know I get it and I mean I used I used to be able to run I cannot anymore.

SPEAKER_02 57:35

And I gotta tell you I have no interest in actually running but I do have an interest in being able to run yeah that's what people don't get the difference for yeah yeah I I sometimes get sad that I can't do like all types of dance but like I and it was hard for me sometimes to watch it but now I really enjoy watching it because I'm appreciating it for what it is because I was able to be like you are never gonna be a professional ballerina.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

So if you could master any dance what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 58:13

LA maybe swing maybe no maybe sling I'm gonna go swing that looks fun.

SPEAKER_00 58:21

I I would do break dancing nice I would video that I love it.

SPEAKER_02 58:32

Alright well hopefully you know the bottom line has come through of like it is what it is to you but their intentionality makes a difference between detaching disassociating and self-care so when you go into it with a framing that benefits you it it really matters.

SPEAKER_00 58:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

Any last tips Cynthia no no I just got my four hygiene sleeping diet exercise and I've got death valley and you've got and you've got death valley and I will say also actually one thing I will add is self-care is also making sure that you're mindful about the who you're around and the energy that is brought into your life and we've talked about this in more than one episode.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

Yep and we we kind of even touched on it here when we're talking about the news and everything that's going on. I don't go ahead I was just gonna say a lot of it is really how do you self-preservation is kind of how I look at it.

SPEAKER_02 59:33

Yeah it's not like bad to detach sometimes it's bad to only detach all the time what's your ratio is the question. Yeah I will say I'm happy I'm very happy that I don't think that there's anyone I regularly interact with right now maybe like one exception who brings me down I think everyone allows me to be where I am or lifts me up and that is rare and that is a form of self-care.

SPEAKER_00 59:59

That is that is so important.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

That is so if someone's beating you down all the exercise in the world isn't going to help and I do think there is too much of self-care in a lot of ways as far as like it can get in the way of like like you can over exercise like it is a medical condition like you can overdo these things. And when I see people go from like no exercise to exercising seven days a week I'm like that's actually bad for your body there are some things best than that one. All of a sudden eight hours of sleep every night good for your body 12 hours of sleep not great for you so it's I just want to make sure that like we have that disclaimer but with that self-care important yes we can agree on that we can agree on that. And now I'm looking for my next wildflower desert trip. All right have a great day everyone thank you so much for listening um as usual comments suggestions new topics we would love to hear topic uh requests uh weather revisiting or something new you can message me through my travel site at hello at meridianbyjessie dot com and that's jessie with an IE at the end I'm gonna be planning trips soon I'll be talking to you about those and you could be like I don't get it all right thank you everyone take care bye bye bye