Rebooting in the Age of AI

A conversation about whether artificial intelligence is truly improving our lives, or simply reshaping how we work, think, and reinvent ourselves.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Hello everyone, and welcome to this episode of the Reboot Diaries. I'm Jesse.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

I'm Cynthia.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Today we're going to talk about something that has um, I mean, for me, come up a lot during job searches and even now different projects and things like that. So with all these transitions comes new learning, new tools. AI. I'm sorry, everyone. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, everyone. We're gonna talk about AI. So, Cynthia, you love it.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Uh, I love how uh productive I can be with it. Um, you know, it took a minute to kind of get to the point where I am now, but man, woo-wee. I really feel as though it is such a time saver. And you?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

I hate it. You hate it because you Well, okay, so I do use it some. And I do what do you use it for? My favorite thing to use it for is coming up with titles for things. Because I've never been good at coming up with titles for things. The look on your face of like that is so random. It is, but I'm not good at titles, and I think they're important. So, like titling the episodes of this, titling different groups.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

I think it's important. So something that you think is important, you trust something that you despise with.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Well, I didn't say it was incompetent, I just said I hated it.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Okay, let's talk about why can we just start with why you hate it?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

So I do I do worry that like it is not great for the human brain to have it do all the things, mostly writing, like mostly like being able to write. Like, I feel like we are gonna lose some communication skills as a society. But honestly, it 90% of it comes down to water.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Water w water? It's destroying the water supply.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Okay, so you d you hate AI for environmental reasons.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Mostly.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Okay, that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

I think that's like And we need water to live.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

We and and this is where I come from my very Southern California, chronic drought state. Like, remember collecting shower water to flush the toilet as a kid, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

So like I can't even say that's little house on the prairie, but that's some real stuff there. You know, little house on the prairie didn't have indoor plumbing, but but but that's that's real.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Yeah, and there's been countries that like have gotten really, really, really bad in terms of water, South Africa, Iran, like the droughts, like very real. So for me, I think I am more aware of water's important because I remember as a kid, like learning this as a kid, and they were like, we need to learn how to desalinate the ocean, and that's the only like that's what we need to do, but it's too expensive, so we don't do it. And I was just like, That's wild.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Like, okay, so I think multiple things can be true at once. So I I I understand what you're saying, and I agree. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is kind of how do you determine what's worth it and what's not, yeah. And like I think about uh, you know, the emissions with cows. Do you eat beef? Uh and if so, kind like that's what I mean in terms of the balance. Like, I'm been vegetarian for 35 years, and honestly, it's not because of the environment, uh, but that's a real, you know, concern that a lot of people have.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Yeah, totally. I mean, I think that I mean, Craig and I significantly reduced our beef consumption for a long time because he was an environmental studies major and learned these things. Like, so I don't know. I mean, look, everyone, some people are like, it's fine. Some people are worried about it. Like, it only took one news story of the small town that lost all its water pressure for me to be like stressed about it. So for me, it it comes at a cost that I think is particularly um like resonates with me quite a bit, even though it's like not gonna affect where I physically live, because I live in environments that like aren't the middle of cheap land that these data centers are built on.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Okay, so let's remove this issue and the very important issue. So I'm not trying to minimize. So let me just ask: is it okay if we say environmental uh the environment aside?

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Like let's say that's been solved. That part's been solved.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Yeah, then uh do your feelings change?

SPEAKER_01 5:14

They definitely change, but I still would love people to be more discerning with how they use it. Like I've had a friend like send me their phone summary of our text messages, and I'm like, if you need a summary of your text messages, like you're texting too much. Like it's kind of my thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Why, why is how they like how why is their behavior like why does that even oh it's not about them specifically because they don't they don't actually need it.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

It was just like a default thing that turned on. I'm just saying, like in general, if I were to need a summary of a bunch of texts someone sent through, that's I don't stop talking to me. That's too many.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

I'm such a curbudgeon of like stop talking. Right, no, so I hear you, but I don't I still don't get how that impacts your life.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Um, because I'm worried that we are cognizant, we're getting cognitively lazier and lazier. And so it's like if they want to do it, like that's fine. I'm just saying, like for me, to me, it's a signal of like 20 email chain being summarized is different to me than like like text messages are like really like you need 10 text messages summarized, they're text messages, like they're not that long. So for me, it's like a cognitive laziness thing that I worry about.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Okay, so and then I guess still the question becomes kind of like so what? And I think about you know how communication has evolved over the years. I mean, we've both lived in an era where there was no text messages, there was no email, like we legit hand wrote notes and passed them in class. Um, and so we have kind of like seen a lot of evolution when it comes to convenience and speed when it comes to written communication. Uh and yes, at the end of the day, penmanship is is trash. People don't know how to write in cursive. Um, but then I guess you know, the question is, you know, we're still here and functional. So, like, isn't this just another example of the evolution of time and how we operate as human beings?

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Yes, but I would argue we're not totally functional because when you change communication so much and it changes so quickly, there are generational divides that are very real. And so Cursef, perfect example. Where I work, people have to fill out like forms, and my 20-something year old coworkers cannot read them. Literally cannot read people's who put their addresses down. Like, and so it is very interesting being in the middle of, you know, I did learn cursive. I had to learn cursive, I learned cursive like five years in a row as a kid. It was wild. It's like, do you teachers not talk? Like, so I do know cursive. It is also faster to write in cursive, but you could easily argue, well, now we don't do handwriting, fine. Um, but they are left out of information. They cannot read. When I was trying to look at documents, um, looking through like my grandfather's heritage, looking through the like film and everything on the screen. What is uh what is that called? Microfifiche? Yeah. Um, reading it was very hard for me because handwriting has changed so much. So eventually technology could scan it, translate it, but there's these transitional periods where you really struggle accessing information. Like I couldn't read the Declaration of Independence right now. I can't read that handwriting.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Yeah, I I can't even read my own handwriting. So here's my question. Like, here's what I'm wondering, which is not part of the conversation, but why is your job still collecting information with forms? Uh, and then the second thing that I'm thinking about is, you know, you talk about not being able to access information. Like one of the things I say about my father, if you want to um, you know, if you're trying to plan a surprise party for him, just put the plans on any computer because there's no way he'll be able to access it.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

So that's part of why we use paper, is frankly, because computers cost money and it is cheaper to give someone a piece of paper, theoretically. Theoretically. I mean, at a certain point you use so much paper, it's actually not. Um, but because not everyone feels comfortable using a computer. Not everyone can use a computer. Like, I've had people come in and like I was given a smartphone and I don't know how to do blah, blah, blah. Like, can you help me? Like, things like that. So this creates that like divide even more of we require you to do it this way. We just changed a policy at work that's gonna be like a nightmare, like a nightmare, a nightmare. Because now we're not gonna call people to notify them, they're gonna get an email. And so people who don't, and they have 36 hours to reply. So people who don't check all of their email every single day are gonna miss out on opportunities. And boy oh boy, are they gonna be mad. So again, like this is a technology pattern, it makes a lot of sense. Everyone has an email, even if they don't check it, and they will be left behind and lose out on like things that are life enhancing. So that's where it's like I it's very I have very different feelings than my norm, which is efficiency, efficiency, efficiency, efficiency. It's like, okay, efficiency to a point, because I would like us to use one of those robots that automatically calls people because that would be efficient for us, but it doesn't leave those people behind. I mean, at my job, I can't check my email on the computer. So it's like if they were to send me this notification at 8 a.m., it goes till 8 p.m. I'm not checking, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not checking that email necessarily. So it even me who chronically checks their email sometimes can't. So anyway, all this is true. I definitely um think there's like we are increasing gaps in communication with each other, and that makes me nervous. I think uh we are losing communication skills as I watch some of my coworkers who you know don't know how to write things like that. So I do worry about like AI, but I do I mean I do think if you were if something was hard for if something's always been hard for you and AI can help, that to me is different than like I just don't want to, so I'm gonna have AI do it.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

But I mean, isn't if it's not AI, isn't it always gonna be something else for that group of people?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Like what so like I I need to write like a summary paragraph of our conversation today. I just don't want to. What do I use if not AI?

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Well, hmm, that is a good so in that case scenario, AI would be the one that's documenting, that's being able to analyze it. I mean, you can give it to somebody else to do. And there have been people who do that. I mean, you know, when I was in graduate school, to your point in terms of people not being able to write, I was shocked by the people who could communicate very clearly and confidently uh during conversations. But when, you know, you came to reading their papers, it's just like, really?

SPEAKER_01 13:24

It's a very different skill. And not all schools teach it as thoroughly as others.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Okay, so why don't we move okay?

SPEAKER_01 13:34

So now that I now that I've now that I've rained on your parade enough, no, no, no, no, advocate for it.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

No, it's not that you've rammed on my parade. I mean, I think that, well, maybe you have a little bit. No, but I think that, you know, you're raising significant concerns. Um, I don't necessarily share all of those concerns, although I believe that they're real, they're just not things that I'm thinking about uh, you know, in my everyday life. In terms of advocating for it, well, I mean, I think that it really depends on how you use it. I can say, in terms of in my life, how I use it, it has made all the difference in the world. I mean, the thought that I would be able to feed an application basic instructions and it produce a website for me is just, I mean, yeah, yeah, I feel like instead of paying people on Fiverr a couple thousand dollars a month for various tasks, I'm able to do everything that I need to do in one or two hundred dollars a month worth of subscriptions.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

And I think what's worth pointing out is like your your use case is um so different than like what I see people using things for day to day, like research. I know like I I a thousand percent would use it for research, but also fact check everything. But I would definitely think about in high school going to the card catalogs and having to find the physical card to look for the journal that may or may not be relevant to the thing that I was trying to write about. Like, I do think I learned some good skills doing that. Do I think I learned important enough skills to be worth the hours and hours and hours I've spent doing it? Probably not, actually.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

I mean, even thinking about research citations as a research, former researcher, and when I say former in terms of that's what I did for a living, um, you know, that was horrible in terms of a time suck. Just formatting the references page. And now it just happens just like that. And I gotta tell you, there is nothing good, honestly, that has come from me using a card catalog and having to look up a journal and then oh my gosh, sometimes it wasn't there, and you know, oh it sometimes the title was misleading, that would be my least favorite. Yeah, I mean, yeah, so I I and see, I'm not really good when it comes to design, so I'm a pretty strong writer. I'm really horrible when it comes to design, but the you know, being able to put something in the mid-journey or even chat GPT and say, All right, I've got this paper that I'm or here's a paper. Like I uh wrote a paper with a friend called When Hoof Belt Boo, When Ho Hoof Beats Aren't Horses, and essentially it's about rare disease and what you call zebras. And you know, I know how to write, I don't know how to come up with designs, and so we wanted an image for the article, and uh, you know, just put it in, and AI said, All right, here's what you can consider. And then from there, I was able to take what they suggested, go into Canva, and create what I wanted to do. But I mean, without that help, I just, you know, would have been thinking about a horse and a zebra, and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Do you think, as I'm kind of thinking through what I said, what you're saying, do you think that there is a like age at which AI should be avoided until and you know that's really that's a really interesting point.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

And I don't know. I don't know enough about child development, and I don't know about enough about pedagogy. I mean, like I used to, I used to be a teacher, but I don't do that anymore. And I definitely didn't teach within the age of you know AI as we see it today, but you know, some of the things I think about is from a pedagogical standpoint, what are some things that kids are missing out on if we only do this exclusively? And is there a way to create a balance? I mean, one of the things that I'm concerned about is uh kind of like well, what happens when you've got some people who are using it and other people who are not using it? Yes. And, you know, is it a thing of where from and I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about me from a principal standpoint. Oh, well, you shouldn't be doing this or that, this, that, the other. It should be um, you know, X, Y, and Z. Well, I'm putting that person who's not using it behind because at the end of the day, they're going to get outpaced by the people who are using it. And so to answer your question in terms of an age, just like what was it, Australia that banned social media for kids at a certain age? I just I just don't know. What I can say is that I think that with AI, it really amplifies the need to teach kids critical thinking skills, writing skills, the skills that they would need to A be able to kind of, as you pointed out, fact-check, understand uh what's accurate, what's not, but then also, and I hate to say it, but to develop good prompts. Um, because you know the the That I will agree with. Uh-huh. The more you know skilled you are, and the more you bring to the table, the more it really serves as a tool for you to create as opposed to just you know randomly spitting out information. What about you? Do you think there should be an age?

SPEAKER_01 20:11

I don't know enough of the science. I mean, I know they're like doing like brain imaging well for like adults that are using it, like I don't know if they are for kids. I I think that all things in moderation, like I just want to be clear. I think I said this more in passing at the beginning. Like, I definitely do use AI for things, like and titles for sure. Um, but also um the models are developing very, very quickly. That's some of my frustrations I do at this point see going away a year from now in terms of like resumes being the big thing, obviously, that I tried it out for and I used different AI platforms to work on my resume, and I just found it so frustrating and it got me nowhere. And I spent probably more collective time doing unhelpful resume work than I did. And like people be like, well, maybe it was your prompts. No, dude, you think I didn't look up the prompts? You think I'm not bossy as heck? I'm great at AI. I can be as boss, like you just have to be specific and bossy. Like, so it was very um frustrating because everyone's like, just use AI. And I was like, Y'all think that like I this is a great example of what I was saying before, like, well, I just don't want to, so I'm gonna use AI. But also at a certain point, I'm not getting interviews. Maybe AI can help me. Like that's the transition of just like, I'm clearly not doing this. I've read, I'm in a group, like I've done all the things. So that's where I've gone off track and going back to kids and age groups. I do think that like all things in moderation is ideal. I would probably be one of very few people who would be so. Happy if there was less communication technology. Like remember, work-life balance was a thing for our parents. You know, like we're too available. But um, I also like that like it makes it easier to communicate with friends. But I also kind of miss like being on the phone with my best friend for an hour. And I like phone anxiety is real. Like younger people don't know how to have phone conversations. And I think that social anxiety has increased. You are judging why.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

No, I just I never really thought the ability to talk on the phone is a skill.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Um well, I think it bleeds out into non-phone context.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Like, I think like you're not always gonna be around a human being that you don't live with. And so, like, when you're on the phone, like it builds your communication skills in a different way, I think. And that that bleeds into like more in-person conversations where I just see a lot more people have like social anxiety, especially people who were locked inside for COVID for two years during developmental years.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Yeah, yeah. No, and I'm I'm thinking specifically in terms of just people not wanting to use the phone, like almost like you've got to schedule an appointment to call somebody on the phone. But I will also say that, you know, there was a time where people would drop by folks' homes unexpected. Yeah, and now that is you would never do that, or at least not ex and expect somebody to open the door.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

I mean, I feel weird going to my parents' house and just opening the door, and I make sure I text them and they reply before I do so that they do not think a burglar has come in.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

That's so funny. Yeah, yeah. I mean, even homes being designed, like there was always one room we were not allowed to use. That was the living room, because that's you know, if you had company, that's where they would go. Yeah, same. Same.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

So I don't know. I mean, communication is naturally gonna change, it's not inherently bad necessarily. I just think as people live longer, I think as technologies use more, we are like creating more communication gaps, and that makes me very anxious because we're not we weren't great at it to start with. So there's my little like not nihilist, but I don't know. It's for me, it it it has been helpful when I'm just when I feel like I'm stuck against a wall, that is when I I will turn to AI. But it has given me fake resources, it has given me it had it create a resume once and like none of it was accurate, so it like it can go off the rails pretty quickly. Yeah. But it also you pay for better AI than I use.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, and I always double check, I'll even, you know, run stuff again. Yeah, it's almost like you play one AI against the other. Well, Perplexity said this. What do you think? Uh chat and chat GPT will be like whatever, and then you'll kind of just bounce them back and forth. So almost like it's a competition, which I very much enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Yeah, I mean, I think I think that's smart. Do you tell do you tell AI thank you?

SPEAKER_02 25:21

I try not to.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

We've talked about this a little, I just remembered.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Did we?

SPEAKER_01 25:26

I can't even say please and thank you. Why not?

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Uh because they're not real. And I don't w want to be delusional myself. Uh, but I do sometimes by accident.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

I say please because I like the idea of costing the rich people in charge money, and I don't want to get out of the habit of saying please.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Oh, that's interesting. No, like I'll use chat to do website prompts for this application called Lovable, which builds not just websites, but I've got this, you know, self-assessment. In fact, you saw the self-assessment uh because you gave feedback on it. The self-assessment, and you know, it can score it and do all this behind the scenes stuff. But I remember asking or letting chat know what specifically what I wanted so that it could create a very um tight prompt for me. And it had please in it. And I was thinking to myself, why would I, why is one uh AI agent telling me to tell another AI, you know, to use the word please? I think that's so weird.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yeah, that is weird to me. Because they're I and I do I do think of it as a person, and so maybe that's why it's a more slippery slope for me than you.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. No, I I the only time I really think about them as people is is within the context of what I cannot afford to do, and that's hire people.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

A thousand percent. And that's, you know, I mean, going to you know, starting businesses, we've both like done these independent endeavors, it can really help. I feel badly I can't pay people to do certain things. But at the same time, if I can pay a human being to do the editing of the podcast, which we do, because I think it takes certain amounts of judgment, versus paying AI to do or paying like a system to do sound balancing, like that I feel okay about. No one's skill set is literally just evening out volume. And so it's like I can still I can get the finished product quicker from the editor if they don't have to worry as much about that, and they still get paid for the thing that took actual time. Yeah, I mean, do you think how do you think AI has changed? You talked about it. We I mean, for you, I think for research, and maybe I worry about it less with you because I do know you have the skill sets. I do know that if AI went away, you could still write the book.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

Well, that's the thing, is that I come to it very uh differently, just like you do, in terms of being educated during a time where there was no AI, and like we just had to learn how to do everything. And I think that it's much different when you come to AI. It feels as though AI it just really accelerates what you can already do, it just helps you do it faster. And so I don't come to it from a perspective of only having AI and not having um super, super tight skills. I mean, we both, you know, there was a lot of time and financial investment that went into our education. And I mean, I think that shows up when it comes to how we use these tools.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

I do, I do agree. I think, you know, I had and I've had coworkers use it and create like trash, and I've had coworkers use it and like it have found it very helpful. So how you know the use cases matter a lot to me in terms of what it's elevating. Um so starting a business, we talked about for research for you, but for starting a business, how do you think it changed things for you? Uh the website being a great example. Yeah, I mean you can't pay for it, so you use AI. Is that kind of a simple thesis statement?

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Yeah, 100%. I mean, it allows me to do things and do things faster in a way that just um would would not be possible otherwise. It's also a great thought partner uh when I'm trying to make decisions. It's also great at giving feedback. Um, you know, a lot of times I might want to communicate what's in my brain, and sometimes I'll run it by AI, and it will say, okay, this part is not necessary. That's and they won't say that's just being mean, but it's be it could be perceived as such. And in my life, yeah, just saying, you know, what you know, writing out what I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Um robots teaching you to be nicer. Oh, I'm touching my face. I'm so stressed by that. Keep going, keep going.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

No, so I mean, I think it's really good in terms of it being even even being able to help me out in terms of social um situations that I hadn't, you know, considered. Uh, and you know, somebody, a friend of mine told me, you know, just be careful in terms of what you say. Ask yourself, does this need to be said? Does this need to be said now? And does this need to be said by me? And the AI, I think, is a really good reminder of really being um intentional about the words that you use.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

I think that is a fascinating counter to the points I was making about it hurting communication skills. I like I I think that's good. I think that's helpful because I do take for granted that I have communication skills that I can adjust and adapt and be you know in flux with. I mean, part of it's my education, part of it's my family, part of it is human beings telling me to be more careful with how I say things. But for some people, it is hard. It is hard to come up with the words, and I can see it being helpful in that, and I wouldn't have any issue with that if if if like if it is the tool that helps them develop the skills, that's different than replacing the skills.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Right. Right. It's also helpful in terms of figuring things out, in terms of using different tools. I can just, if I'm editing something, let's just say in Cap Cut, and I don't know what to do, I'll take a screenshot, run it through AI, let it know what I want, and I'll say, Oh, that's because you need to do X, Y, and Z. And so it'll give feedback in real time. When I was applying for my uh, you know, and to me, paperwork is incredibly overwhelming. So when I was applying for my nonprofit, you know, I didn't have the money to use legal zoom and this, that, the other. So I literally asked, okay, what does this involve? Oh, okay, here's what you need to do. Go to, you know, whatever website, and then it's gonna ask you, blah, blah, blah. So it gave me an overview of what to expect. Then I'd go to the website and then do a screenshot. And my is this the right box that I'm you know filling out? Yes, no, whatever. Um, and so the the process of just paperwork has become so much easier with AI. I mean, it just it's that's a lot of trust.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

That's a lot of trust.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Um, so here's the thing AI's not submitting it for me, but it's telling me what what to do, and I'm still reading the instructions, but it's providing the context and almost the confidence that I just would not have.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

That's what I was gonna ask.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

Yeah, by myself.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Like that little reassurance of like, okay, I understood this in the same way.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

Exactly. Exactly. And you know, no, it hasn't always been 100% accurate, but you know, it's kind of like the you know, 80-20 rule in terms of I'll take the 80%.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

And it's getting more and more accurate, like even resume things I've asked now versus three years ago are like wildly different in what it can produce.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Yeah, I was reading something, and forgive me if we've already talked about this, where they're talking about in 2000, you know, math was hard. In 2023, AI could pass the bar. Now AI can do the job of somebody in just a couple minutes, it would have taken, you know, two or three days, and they can it can do it better, faster, more accurate.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

So here's I'm gonna ask you the big question. Uh, and this this isn't this episode will be released actually not that far down the line. It'll so it'll be still fresh in people's minds. A certain tech company laid off about half of their employees expecting them to be replaced by AI, didn't even have it fully in place yet. Do you, you know, in a market that's already really difficult, and you know, a country where job skills training is so minimal, um, do you worry about that aspect?

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Well, I've already been laid off, so no.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

And you weren't laid off because of AI. Yeah. Neither was I. No, but like to see people in careers that were very, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Here's how I look at it. I am telling my friends who are still working to upskill when it comes to AI. For sure. Because it's just a matter of time. And I believe that everybody has something to contribute, something to offer. And I think that AI can really, whether it's in the workplace or if you're just doing your own thing, uh be a significant facilitator of that. And when it comes to education and AI, you know, as I mentioned before, we've both have very expensive degrees. You know, upskilled when it comes to this now. The barrier to entry is so low that, yes, I think that losing a job, I know that losing a job can be devastating. I also think that AI will create uh opportunities for people that they never really considered before. So I don't think that, and you know, I I think I know what you're talking about in terms of the organization that did this, that you know, laid off, I think it was 40% of their uh their staff. Um and yeah, that's devastating. I was you know glad to see you know the type of severance that was involved in the cash and the access to equipment, but you know, doing it now gives people the time they need to upskill because it is it is going to change work at 110%. I mean, it has changed work.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

So, I mean, I think AI is going to write itself sooner than later. Like, I don't think we're gonna need a lot of human beings to create better AI. I think it's gonna do it itself. So for me, like the upskilling is like, okay, like I don't know the future, so I can just say, okay, definitely a possibility to what you're saying as far as learning it can help you do your job better, that will make you more uh that that creates more job security. That's what you're saying, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:28

I think that it yes, it helps create more job security, but I'm also you know, thinking that there are opportunities when it comes to, you know, doing your own thing instead of working for somebody else. I mean, I think that you, you know, with your travel business, uh, you know, applying, you know, different AI tools coupled with the existing social media uh tools that are available. I think that your travel business could really, really, really, really take off. Uh, but that's, you know, that's just me talking as somebody who doesn't know anything about the travel industry uh and is fascinated with these AI tools and potential applications.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Yeah, I mean, and I and that's another thing I'll admit is I was very curious on like what kind of itinerary could you put together? And I played with it a little bit. And where it wasn't helpful was when there's so many options. Like, I want to stay in a bed and I want to do like a road trip around the northern Scotland coast and I want to stay in these types of places, and it almost had too many options. It didn't ask me any questions back to give me an actually tailored thing. But when I was like, okay, I want to drive from point A to point B into California to Nevada, um, and I want to make I want to make some stops that have like wildflowers or that have rock hounding I can do. Like, what do you suggest? Well, there's just not a lot of options. And so that led to somewhere. I mean, both it confirms there's not a lot of options. But that made me, it was more a like, am I just not finding things or are there really not a lot of options test? And that that I found more helpful as opposed to like, I want to drive around this car. Like they just it just wasn't, and maybe I didn't, maybe the prompt needs to be like, ask me the questions to get me something truly tailored to my my taste. Maybe that's the step I missed, but I did put a lot of inputs in. Um, so anyway, I I do think industry matters. I don't want to poo-poo it too much for business, like independent people trying to scale themselves in a way that they otherwise couldn't afford. I think for me, when I think about job security at you know, medium and large companies, that's where, you know, what are the jobs that are gonna always use or start to always whatever use AI but not get eliminated.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

So, and and let's go back to that because what do you mean by job security? Are you talking about an individual experiencing job security, or are you talking about a role that will always be there?

SPEAKER_01 41:12

A role that will always be there. Excellent differentiation. But yes, a role that will always be there, even if it looks 40%, 50% different because of how they use AI.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and honestly, I really think that the roles that will always be there are the roles that are filled by people who are in the decision-making process to decide who, you know, what roles stay and what goals. I think that with AI, you know, everybody is at risk except for the decision makers. And even, you know, if there's somebody above them, they're at risk.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Yeah. So the board of directors, that's the only thing not at risk. Yeah, I just I think I would be less frustrated if like up like teaching people new skills was something we did more as a society. I think that to me would change my views significantly as someone who's changed careers multiple times. Um whereas like it was I had one of my coworkers was campaigning to have people like sign a petition against the um when you go on the bridge and you pay a toll. So they were like against making it all fast track because those people were gonna lose those jobs. And my thing was like, or because those jobs are terrible for their physical health, maybe the petition should be that they need to get job training by the organization instead of just let go.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

Yeah, and then I mean, I think that those are all excellent points. I would also say that going back to the issue again in terms of the barrier to entry is so low when it comes to learning the skills. I mean, really, YouTube, there are people who have free platforms that teach these skills. I mean, it's I think that there are a lot of opportunities that are not traditional opportunities. And I think that one of the challenges is, you know, it's just easy to get stuck in a mindset in terms of what you know and know has worked during a certain period in time versus what might be possible moving into the future.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Yeah. I mean, like I would have loved the people that were collecting tolls to be trained in um, you know, whether it was customer support or software development for, you know, the thing that was replacing them.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Like that's an excellent point.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Yeah. I because it's like, well, there's other things, there's always other things that need to be Done. I think that's the big question I had around that 40% layoff was like, why, especially because of the races they gave people they wanted to stay? It's like, why save a little money when you can expand work output? If AI is making everyone twice as productive, why not make your organization twice as productive?

SPEAKER_02 44:24

Because we live in a capitalist society and hyper capitalism. And I mean, and and I think that for me, that is kind of what everything comes back to down to.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Everything comes back to it. Everything, literally, in my mind. So yeah, I mean that's me be my headphones are dying. My headphones are dying. Um wave your hand when they cut off. So yeah, I mean that's where I uh need to wake up and just deal with a little bit more. Like and and I am the person's like, it is what it is a little bit, but like I do still get a little soapboxy around as people have experienced the last hour.

SPEAKER_02 45:09

Like no, and I mean I think that that we need that soapboxy, to tell you the truth. I mean, it's important for us to care about one another and you know, one another's well-being. Um so I offer that not as a way to, you know, as a point of criticism, just kind of like it's just a fact.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

I do think my thing for positions that'll always exist, like my friend's daughter wants to be an electrician. I was like, yeah. Like, yes, do that. I looked seriously looked into becoming a plumber. Uh toilets can't fix themselves anytime soon. Like it happens. And even some of the things that like technically they could develop to get to like not need certain maintenance, they're always gonna want to make cheaply. And so we'll always need to be fixed. You know what I mean? Like, even if there's some magic toilet that exists that never flushes, we're not gonna have one. You know, there's not enough in it for the manufacturers to create when they can just give you a toilet you have to replace every five years because they they intentionally hold back technology releases that you have to buy new ones, right?

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

So that's where I'm like, actually, and that's why I've really looked into these physical skills or places technology has failed. Like, I do think travel is currently one of those. Not that it'll never catch up, but I do think that like because people are so time crunched, it is a skill set that people have returned to, but it have to put it a very different way. And I'm so sorry, everyone, we're switching mics for these last few minutes. Look at this hair. What's it? Headphone hair, headphone hair. All right, sorry if I sound different, everyone. Um, I did not charge my battery for my headphones last night. So, yeah, that's where I mean, that's my very hopeful thing of like, no, like actually, there are jobs that I do think are gonna exist, but I don't think it's what they're gonna invest AI in because there's not enough profit. There's not enough profit because like a toilet company is not saving a hundred thousand dollars salary by creating a toilet that fixes itself.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

Exactly. Exactly. Because they don't pay the plumber. Mm-hmm. I'm on to something. Well, I love the idea of you being a plumber. Yeah, it really came down to I can't dig holes.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

That's real, not even the like human waste, it came down to I can't dig holes. The pipe's gotta go somewhere. Um but yeah, I mean like that, it's as close as you can get to job security.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

So I do think there's some things we make with our hands that they are trying to use technology for, and so that's where to your point, like learning the AI that's gonna like operate the machine and things like that, like is a thing. But I don't know. Final verdict. Cynthia loves it. Jesse is a reluctant late adopter.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

I mean I think that you're rightfully critical of, and when I say critical, I mean you look at it through a critical lens, which I think is very important. Whereas I look at it through the lens of somebody who's just like what's in it for me. And you know, I think your lens is very important.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

And like, even with my lens, like there are some things in it for me. Like, if I was writing school papers right now, I'm not gonna pretend I wouldn't be just exhausted and sick of it and try to use it. But if I were a teacher right now, I'd be miserable.

SPEAKER_02 49:25

Oh, yeah, no. I mean, I I would I would 100% recertify in early childhood education because I wouldn't be able to deal with all this written material being you know AI generated. No, I agree with you there.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I also would feel better if like rural environments had better internet.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

And that is a concern that has been, you know, a discussion that's been going on literally for 30 years.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

Yep. Don't forget the people out doing the things that we need for food.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Or even not, like we don't need to need them for their lives to have value. It's like deserve access to resources. Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

No, but I mean I think that what you you I think the bigger point you're trying to make is, you know, these are populations that are adding real value to our lives. Um, we can't, you know, just leave people behind.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Yeah, I mean, I would yes, but also like lives always have inherent value, and therefore, like we can't leave people behind to such an extent as not having fast internet.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

Yeah, me in a capitalist society, I know. I'm trying to counter it, Cynthia.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

I'm trying to counter it. I don't know. Me and my little socialist high horse, um, who just wants to work for someone that will pay me a lot of money and give me benefits because you can't escape it.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

Well, I and see I my I think that you're gonna have people working for you and you're gonna be paying people a lot of money and giving out good benefits.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

Can you imagine me working for someone again?

SPEAKER_02 51:15

No, like I think that I think that you I think that you would be very I think that you would add a lot of value working for someone, and I think that you would do very good in a role that required precision and for things to actually be right. Yep, but I love that stuff. Yeah, I think that you would not do well in a role where people just had to feel good about their experiences. Uh, and I'm not talking about, you know, when it comes to people leadership, I mean like a lot of times when you think about the workplace, it's really not necessarily about what's getting done. It's about one's position and standing. And if it's about you upholding somebody's standing for the sake of them feeling good, I don't think that you would be successful in that kind of role. That's what I'm saying. Yes, I experienced this with one of my CEOs. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

I didn't I I didn't know about that. No, no, no. I mean, one of the C-suite people told me I pushed back on him better than the C-suite itself. And I was like, they were a like, I told you to jump. Why aren't you just knowing how high?

SPEAKER_00 52:50

Truth to power, truth to power is not what you pay me for.

SPEAKER_02 52:53

I think that um it's really interesting, and I don't know what it is, but I think that people's kind of personal social limitations have so much to do with the experiences of others in a company, oftentimes to the detriment of what the company can actually accomplish.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

Um, fun side fact you want to hear about because I like working part-time while I work in the travel business, that like consistency because especially because with travel, like I've got like a $3,000 commission, just to be transparent, coming for like a huge thing that I did. But I'm not gonna, I didn't, I'm not that money's not coming in for like six months, right? So you know, having the steadiness is really helpful. Um, I interviewed for a promotion where I am now part-time, and they were like, What's the one skill that you want to develop in your next position? Like a very like for how junior these jobs are, it's a it's a common question. And I was like, um, I think like customer service skills, and then I was like, no, I like, and then I was like, well, I have them because I do have them. I just like need to keep the wheels oiled or else I will lose them. Like, let's keep it real. And then I was like, Jesse, this is a customer service show. Why did you say that? I did not get the promotion, but they were like, We're gonna, and like here's the thing like I've had people like actually like I want to be clear, I was like, I got my little like monthly reward three times for excellent customer service, but it just takes a lot of effort for me. Uh, but yes, if AI could replace that, maybe uh I don't think I don't know. It it's definitely maybe it's a skill I should ask ChatGPT how to how to do customer service anyway. Yeah, I mean, as through these transitions, like I I didn't, but I almost went to AI to be like, what should I do for a living? But then I was like, I can figure it out. No one's got more random ideas than me. Even AI.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

All right, well, AI, uh, it's a thing. Uh a thing it is. Here to say. You know, if you can access this podcast, you can access YouTube and you know, do the tutorials and things like that. I maybe I need to ask AI what it's good at when it comes to the job market.

SPEAKER_02 55:33

Or start or accelerating your own business.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

You're so funny. I did side note, I did find a mentor program. Like I did, and I found like the score uh contact for the mentor that you want me to get. Oh yay! Good, good, good, good, good, good. And I have not reached out.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

So anyway. You know what? Baby steps. I mean, you've got to do that before the window's still open on my phone. Okay, okay. No, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

I'm I'm really, really happy to hear that. And I did look up like other programs and stuff too, and I kind of realized I was like, I actually think like a score mentor would be a better fit right now, personally. But if someone wants to be my business partner and make very little money doing all of my sales, because there's not enough to split in half. All right. Uh, with that, I will stop digressing. Um, thank you for joining us today. AI, it's a thing. If you have any questions, comments, unless your comment is AI is wonderful and we don't need water. I don't know if I'm open to that comment. But otherwise, you can email us uh at hello at meridian by jessie.com, and that's Jesse with an IE.

SPEAKER_00 56:45

An IE is important. All right. Thanks so much, Cynthia. Aye.