Being the ‘Strong One’

Cynthia and Jessie talk about the invisible weight of 'being strong' and how that role can quietly shape relationships, identity, and emotional well-being...whether we intend it to or not.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of the Reboot Diaries. I'm Jesse. I'm Cynthia. And today we're going to be talking about this idea of being the strong one, quote unquote strong one. What that means. Is it good? Is it bad? Is it loaded? You know, what what is it? So what is it, you know, what does it cost to be the reliable person? What do you gain? All these things. Are you the strong one, Cynthia?

SPEAKER_02 0:40

I mean, I think it depends on what we're talking about in terms of, you know, the type of not just relationships, but circumstances. You know, I've been uh, you know, doing a lot of podcasts and talks on terms of the book. And I talk about caregiver support and my family just having to be the strong folks to look past a lot of serious meshes. I shouldn't say look past, but balance serious medical issues while trying to get me the care that I need. So I mean, like I said, I think it really just depends on on the circumstances. Sometimes you got to step up and sometimes, you know, maybe you get a pass. I don't know. What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 1:21

I mean, I think it's funny because I don't think either of us have ever seen each other in a situation like enough hours to kind of know how we handle it holistically. So it's it's it I was interested to hear what you were gonna say about it. I do think Frontex matters for me. I think a lot of the times I'm I'm the one it's not, I don't even know if I'd say I'm the strong one. I'm the one who can't tolerate it being not good. So I'm gonna power through so it can get better as soon as possible. And that might at times come across as the strong one. I didn't feel strong at all after getting laid off. Like that first year, I was not the strong one at all and needed a lot of support. But that's the thing is like if you're not strong, if you need support, are you automatically not strong?

SPEAKER_02 2:09

That's interesting. I think, I mean, I do think that if you need support, you know, I definitely see how it would be a thing of where you need other people to be strong for you. I think that probably we, I mean, you were, you know, you you just said a year, and I'm sure that you went through ups and downs in different phases throughout the year. I'm sure that when it first happened, you know, it was a thing of where you probably just wanted to kind of crawl up into a ball and and retreat. I'll say that. Um, but that wasn't it wasn't like that the whole year. You had your ups and downs, right?

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Yeah, there were a lot of mornings in bed, but it there were definitely ups and downs in different stages and progression and regression processing. Like, what does this actually mean? Um, but I don't think that figuring out what this actually means impacted whether I felt like I was like quote unquote strong or not. I I think one thing my therapist at the time said to me was like, you're gonna be fine. You always have been. And so that was like, because I'm strong, is how I kind of interpreted that. But at the same time, you I just get sick of being strong. I don't want to be strong, I want to be in bed with the dogs and like Buffy on and like a fudge sickle.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Yeah, I you know, I hear you, but then I also kind of think about, you know, there's some things that we can't control and some things that we have more control over. And so, like, I think about you know, both of us, we both got physical issues. Like there in many ways little things that we can do, little that we can do about that. Yeah, we can go to physical therapy, we can exercise or whatever, but at the end of the day, things are just different in terms of how our bodies work and there's limited control. Um, so I would say that for me, kind of like issues like that are harder to deal with because all of the reason and logic in the world isn't gonna change the fact that you know you've got neuropathic pain or you know, that your legs hurt or whatever. Um, I think that when it comes to circumstances changing, for me, it tends to be more of a matter of kind of like dealing, a dealing with the initial change, um, and then B, and and I'm saying in terms of how it's impacting me, and then B trying to figure out a solution to adjust. One of the things though about me is that I just really don't like change. So, like I eat the same thing every day, I wear the say like I keep forgetting that about you. Yeah, and so um, and so for me, I think that kind of like when we're talking about serious stuff, it's it's two things. First of all, you know, I don't know if it's loss of identity or whatever, uh, but then it's just a thing of like a change. I've got to do something different, which is just uncomfortable. It doesn't mean that I don't do it, it's just that, like I said, given a choice, I would rather just, you know, just have the same.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

I think for me, one thing that I learned is like, you know, there's this like it's like a trauma concept. There's like the three shields, and one of them is your drive shield. And so like you hide behind productivity, basically. Um, and I felt like I was like strong, or people might have used that like because I like immediately was updating my resume and immediately doing like getting out there and things like that. But actually, I was just like into like I was like in denial on strong. I was just in denial and panicking and needed to do something to not panic more.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Yeah, and I mean, and and I think that that was a good way, good thing to do. I mean, like some people get into productivity mode, some people drink, some people, I mean, like I I think that that's I mean, it's it's about coping. And I think that if that's how if that's how you cope, I think that's pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

To a point, because if you're just doing that and not actually processing what's happening, that's not great because then you cannot like work through things and get to the other side. You love coping. You're this isn't the first time you've said something like that.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Like a good Yeah, I mean, with me, I don't know. I just I I just look at things for I try to look at things for what they are and move on and just remember there like with me, I really do accept that there are just some things that are not within my control, and there are some things that are within my control, and it is very easy for me to kind of block it's easy for me not to get distracted by things that are not within my control.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

See, and I think that's the difference in what we're talking about because I'm like, no, it's like the drive is also heavily weighted uh with the denial about what how much control you have. Like someone just fix this. I'll just get my I mean, that's isn't a good example, but I'll just like change entirely who the how that person is, and then it'll all work out great, or I'll, you know, like I'll just do this hard work and then it'll go back to the way that I want it to be, is one version of it. And then there's just like, you know, sometimes you have to like step outside of something to distract yourself and then you can go back and process it better. That's fine within limitations. They I um I had someone tell me that like when is it avoidance and when is it like giving yourself rest? And it's like if you set, I've said this before on the podcast, if you set like a like, okay, I'm for like a week, I'm gonna let myself feel all my feels, or for a day I'm gonna feel all my feels, and then I'm gonna get back to it. That's very different than like, I just can't handle it right now. I'm gonna feel all my feels indefinitely and suddenly it's three months later.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

So yeah, yeah. And it's interesting because you know, I listen to you know different things. Um, you know, there's this one uh guy that I was listening to with the podcast, and he was talking about when you kind of delay moving forward, you're just something about delaying the pain and delaying the issue. So it's not a thing of where you're you're gonna have to confront it sooner or later. And his whole thing is you may as well just confront it now because the longer you delay, um, you know, that's just more time that you're not being productive. And even, and you know, I'm a big fan of, I'm about to say I'm a big fan of Mel Robbins. I don't know if her name is Robins or Robinson, but bottom line, that's the let them theory person. Yes. You know, she has the what is it, the five-minute rule where you just have to count to five and then just get up and be productive.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

Um and would not work less on me, by the way, to keep going.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

I mean, and and and for me, and I think that it, you know, has really also come with age. You know, I'm definitely middle, uh, middle age at this point. In fact, I might be a little north of, in fact, I am a little north of middle age. Uh a little, yeah. So bottom line is that like I know that there is like only so much time left. Like the the the years, the number of years become very clear, you know, after you hit a certain age. And I don't know what age it was for me that I started realizing that. Um, and I think that everybody is different, but you know, I'm to the point where I I don't have time to let grass grow under my feet.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

I but grass sounds like a positive thing.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

No, I just touch the grass and with your no, I need to be moving.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

I know you do. I know. Okay, so so we've been talking just about like us being strong for ourselves. What about when other people need to lean on you? Like we talked a little bit about that at the very beginning. Like, what are what are the what's the good and the bad of being that person?

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Well, I mean, I think that the good of being that person is, you know, just in terms of humanity, you know, we all exist, we all need each other. I think though that you have to be careful in terms of being there for somebody during a particular moment of need can last a very long time. A very long and I've I've been in that situation, and you know, at that point, it kind of transitions from you stepping up and being a friend to a part of your life being taken away. And I think that it's really important to stay true to you know your needs, and I'm not saying don't give, I'm just saying don't donate your life to somebody else. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_03 11:31

I think it is a question that I need to continue to explore. That's why I was I was trying to find a quote that I thought was applicable, but I was like, I mean, really, I just haven't landed in a place that feels authentic to me and healthy because I like being there for people and I can go into that mode pretty quickly and easily most of the time. But to your point, when someone's going through something and I'm going through something at the same time, I don't have anything left to give. Like I am not standing up straight for myself. I can't stand up straight with someone leaning on me.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Right, right, right. Um and that's why I think parents are so amazing in terms of, you know, when you have kids, that's that that you get you got people to support.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

Yeah, but it's easier some days than others because parents also aren't standing straight on their own a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

I think I I mean I have friends who are very different about this. I have friends who lean on me different amounts. I have friends who have been there when I needed to lean different amounts, and I think like good relationships are pretty balanced. But like so, if I have a you know, I have a friend, hypothetical friend, I'm not even actually thinking of someone specifically, and we like truly alternate, a very balanced there for each other, not like does it become codependent?

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Um, I think that you yeah, I definitely think that you can be codependent on friends. I cannot think of that in terms of you know, me now, you know, in my life now, but I mean, yeah, I mean, I've had relationships with friends where we would, you know, talk every day or every other day or whatever. And, you know, I don't know if that's caught codependent, but I mean, maybe it is if you feel when you know you don't talk. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Yeah, I don't think it's like definitely codependent. I I don't know if it's like depends what you're talking about and how much you have a feel like a need to versus uh wouldn't it be nice to? Yeah, that's it. I don't know. I do, I mean, I definitely do get like attached to people. And I find I part of why I've had relationships so long is I feel like when I find someone who is there for me and who I'm there for, like I'm in, like I'm locked in because I don't think that happens very often. Um but for me, I do like I've had friends who I loved, and I just really had to admit to myself when I can't be the strong one, they also won't step up and be the strong one. And it was really hard for me to admit about those relationships.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

So is there any have you ever had a situation uh where somebody surprised you in terms of stepping up to be the strong one?

SPEAKER_03 14:33

Really? I mean, I think the closest would be when the gallery was shutting down and I needed help quickly. My then boyfriend, now husband stepping up wasn't so much surprising as much as it was like, oh yeah, there's a person who can do that now. But I'm not used to being there yet.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:52

Um so like it was surprising in that way, not because of the reflection on the person. But um, yeah, I mean, I think actually, yes, my friend in Oakland when I was moving and showing up, literally showing up, being like, you just tell me what you need, and like lit did did like physical work for me, like to help me with a lot of stuff. She's the only person I think I have that really had the bandwidth and the heart to show up. And that was part of why her like losing her was devastating.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Yeah, I'm yeah, I'm sorry about that. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

And I, you know, can relate and at least to the move part in terms of when I moved from Oakland back to the East Coast. Um, you know, I remember telling um one of my best girlfriends out there that uh I was moving and she was very upset. This was on a Saturday, and then by Sunday, she was at my apartment taking pictures of stuff to put on Facebook Marketplace. And then um, you know, every and you know, I I moved over a period of like four months. Uh I should say I was packing and shipping stuff over a period of four months. Yeah, yeah. Every weekend she came by to take me to the Goodwill or to the UPS place to ship boxes, yeah. And um, and it was so funny. Her uh the guy who wanted to be with her at the time, and they're now married, she enlisted him and like he had no choice. I mean, he was nice, but like he was the muscle in terms of she said you have to come and do this, and he would come also. Uh, they moved all of my during what is it, bulk trash day came, moved my you know, the bulk stuff that I couldn't get rid of to the curb. So, you know, it's just interesting because I really never thought about it as being strong. I always thought about it, you know, at least from her in terms of her, uh, just being incredible, like really stepping up. And I hate to say being responsible because she's not responsible for me, but you know, she's just one of those reliable people.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

I mean, I as you were talking, I was thinking something similar of like, is this being strong? But I think it's like to me, if you're being strong for a friend and you're you're not going through the same thing together, like to me, that looks like someone who can keep it about you and be there as a safety net and be there to support you through the things that like are just so overwhelming. So they they help disperse the overwhelm.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

And I think that's really what like help it's like helping your friend to be strong, not being strong for their friend. It's just trying to ease the burden a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

And that it's very hard to find someone. There are lots of people who would would like to do that, I think, for their friends, but we all have so much going on. It's like it's very hard.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

When you're all just hanging on. That's the reality. Like, I'm gonna tell my friend with like three kids under the age of five that she needs to go to lunch with me because I need support. I'm sure not. Like that's rough. Like instead, we're gonna talk in the car while she's on the way to pick up the kids. Like so, yeah, I think that's more when it comes to relationships, like friendships. It's like being strong on. Whereas, like in my partnership, my romantic partnership, going through all these hard stuff. I strongly believe people should not get married until that you've both been separately, ideally together too, through like extremely challenging situations where you understand so that you really have proof of how the other person shows up for you and for both of you. That could happen in the first year of a relationship. That might take eight years to happen. That's why I don't subscribe to like you have to be together so many years. Like it could take a while. Or yeah. So that to me is like that, it's different. Like being the strong one comes down to more like family and like her, like very serious, like romantic relationships. That's where I think this I kind of lock in the idea of being the strong one because you're going through it together. Some of one of you's gotta keep going.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

Yeah, I don't know if I would I don't know who I would say is the strong one in our relationship because we've I don't know if anything's ever felt 50-50 as far as us going through it. Like it always impacted someone disproportionately, or it impacted us each in such different ways that there wasn't that like, but I gotta take care of me so I can't take care of you.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

What about your family growing up?

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Owing my childhood was such a specific situation. Like I this idea of being the strong one growing up really was so rooted in societal views of disability and having to be strong and having to smile and having to be like that good kid and that trooper through everything. Like that came from society. Like I were a thousand percent sure. So, like I am sure there were things in my head that like had gotten there through I can't even guess how that were about like making it easier for my family to like I know that was in there, but I couldn't I can't tell you how that got in there. I don't remember ever being told that you should do that. That like I don't know, I'm confident no one ever said that to be a verbatim, right? But no, I felt like I had to be strong, make it less bad for everyone else. That is a very common thing you hear people with disabilities say is you try to make it less bad for everyone else. So that's for sure one of my bigger issues. But yeah, that's so yeah, I think I think of the idea of this being the strong one very differently in all these different contexts. And I I had to be strong. I had to hold myself up. Who else was gonna? And I say that as someone whose parents were both right there. But I'm someone who's always felt like I've told you many times, I'm I live on an island.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Oh, you live on an island?

SPEAKER_03 21:15

Yeah. Me and my puppies. Me and my profe. No disrespect to Captain Me and Profe just on our little anxious island. So no, I mean, I think sometimes being the strong one is just reminding your friend that they are actually strong. You know, having that perspective. But yeah, so for me, I think a lot of the relationships, romantic relationships that last are partially due to luck at both of you being able to alternate who has to step up and who can step down at different points.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Yeah, that's what somebody once told me about divorce. She said. The only reason people stay married is because two people, you know, one person wants to stay married, the other person doesn't. But the minute both people want to, you know, of course that's when it's a wrap.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

Yeah, I think I think there are exceptions to that.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

I think sometimes people make decisions that the other person leaves them for, and then they just never thought they would actually leave them for those decisions and tries to keep it together, but yeah, and that goes back to your point in terms of you know really experiencing challenges together before you get married.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

For sure. You know, if you could throw in like career crisis, a medical crisis, like all the crises, you could just throw some of those in there, like then you're good to go.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Instead, everybody's trying to break into prison.

unknown 23:04

What?

SPEAKER_02 23:06

What are you talking about? In terms of rushing into man, you know, to these Oh, it's a marriage.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Oh my god. The way the places my mind went that wasn't that. Did I tell you I made a little pin for my husband before we got married that was like a ball and chain? Because that was some joke like one of his coworkers take. And in hindsight, I'm like, oh, I am not proud that I made. But um, because at the time I was like encouraging him to like go to school and do all these things. And his coworkers are like, oh, the old ball and chain. I'm like, you mean the motivator? Motivator. Um but yeah, I what but what toll? And you're always the strong one. Like, let's say maybe your friend just has crummy luck and all these legitimate, dude. I was listening to a fascinating lunch conversation yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

So I'm assuming that you were listening to somebody else's conversation. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

This is like this is my excited to gossip face.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

All right, girl, what happened?

SPEAKER_03 24:11

I was, and that wasn't bad editing on Dan's part. That was me literally just pivoting that aggressively.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:19

Um there were two people around the same age, I'm guessing like late 20s, maybe 30, maybe. And then like a middle-aged gentleman who was there. Um, and I think they might have been taking him to like a medical appointment or something because it was like in a medical office building, but just like a bagel place downstairs. Um, but I don't know how all these people were related or not related at all. All I know is one of the potentially 20 somethings either had been to an amazing amount of therapy or was a therapist. Because the way this person was like, I guess the other two people were talking about like someone, like someone's girlfriend moving in and like overstaying their welcome or whatever. They turned it onto this, I'm gonna call him well-adjusted guy, who was like, Well, yeah, no, they overstayed their welcome for like so long and it was really bad, and I was really mad about it. But also that's on me because I never established good boundaries when we went into the situation. And I was like, I'm sorry, what? Like I looked over enough times and I think he caught on. Um, but like hearing someone talk about like boundaries and supporting people and how you support yourself through supporting people next to me, like in front of this random bagel shop, was like really cool. Like, really, really cool. I'm like, there's hope, there's hope for some of them. And then listening to the others like not know what to say was like, I know you have not been to therapy. This person was talking about the toll it took on the relationships and that like they wish that they had established some boundaries. Like that, do you feel like you've ever been taken advantage of to be the strong one?

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Um, I think that I probably have, but nothing that has been, you know, earth-shattering or life-changing or you know, anything like that. But no, I I would say yes. I would say yes. And it and it doesn't feel good, but you know, I think it's also really speaks to the importance of knowing yourself, knowing your situation, making decisions that you know work for you. Um and, you know, I think that it's just really important to kind of reflect and question, and you've got to accept responsibility in terms of, you know, the saying when somebody tells you who they are, you know, believe them. And, you know, a lot of times I think that people kind of approach relationships and that they are trying to, I'm not talking about just romantic relationships, you know, friendships or whatever. You just want the person to be a certain way, and you kind of keep uh engaging because you know you're making excuses or you think that they're gonna change, or this, that, the other. And then I think the longer it kind of gets strung out, the harder it is to face when you really, you know, come to terms with the reality of the situation. And so I think that it's a it's a real balance in terms of you know, not just being um a taker, because you know, nobody you know wants to be that, I hope anyway. And just really, you know, trying to find the balance in terms of being there and showing up and um, you know, protecting your space.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Yeah, I think one thing I've gotten I got better about it for a while. I don't know if I'm good at it now. Uh it just hasn't been tested in a while, is like because people know like what's going on with me and like everything's in flux and stuff like that. So I think there's just like an assumption that Jesse's tired. But um for me, I had to establish a boundary with myself in terms of like you're going out of your way to help and support a person who won't even have their lunch break a half an hour later to have it with you. Like they they won't give you anything, and you're giving them so so much, and your friendship would be just as strong if you reeled it back and saved yourself frustration and grief.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Because the reality is if that person isn't like we I mean, and and some people would be like, well, maybe they couldn't with their job, they absolutely could with their job. Um, they absolutely, absolutely could, but like you're not gonna be like 15 minutes in convenience because it would mean a lot to me if we did this. Like, that doesn't feel good to me. And I think we're like a little off the topic of like being the strong one, but I think because being the strong one is about giving a lot of your energy, like this kind of day-to-day, I realized I was like, I'm giving them too much of my energy. And if something huge happened, I'd be there for them, but I can't. Why am I only the one bending over? Like, why am I the only one bending over?

SPEAKER_02 29:33

But then, you know, you kind of make me think about being the strong one. Sometimes you got to be the strong one for yourself.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Yeah, and that was not an easy way for me to pull back. And sure enough, I pulled back and they started being like, Oh, I miss hanging out with you. And I was just like, Well, yeah, because I'm not rearranging my schedule to hang out with you now. Mm-hmm. I can't be the only one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just can't. Um, it feels too crummy. Mm-hmm. But I will say when people are, and this person really never said that, like said this to me. It's something I talk to Craig a lot about too, because it's so important to me. I want to be like transparent about what's important to me. Is if you are like, if you express gratitude in whatever way, um, when I do kind of like go out of my way to support certain you in a certain situation or make something easier for you, like it wasn't like a no-big deal thing. I really like had to re like make it happen. If you express some sort of gratitude, like that is extremely meaningful to me because you're recognizing that I puts put that energy out there and it makes me feel like I it's a way I can repeat in the future that would be valuable to you as well. Um which is always, I think, good to know about the various relationships you're in, like what does mean something to people? Because rearranging my schedule to hang out with my friend apparently didn't mean that much to them. So that's not the right use of how to support them in general.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

So have you ever seen kind of strong come across as bossy or controlling or manipulative?

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Have you met me? Like, I mean, yes, when I look in the mirror, I see that for sure. Hands down. See, that's all I have to say about that.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

You're bossy. I definitely think you speak your name, your mind. I never have to wonder what you're thinking.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

Shocking feedback. Um, I can be bossy, and I actually was just thinking today, it's because of the settings we've been in versus not been in, I think is the main thing. Um today I was like, I have to talk to one of my good work friends about like holding me accountable to get out of a couple bossy habits that I'm slipped that slide are slipping through at my part-time job right now.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

And are not to me bossy, but are very reasonable to me to be interpreted that way. Sometimes people will take something a certain way and be like, I don't know, man, I don't see it. Like, I need a little bit more, like to help me understand this. But like we kind of divide up different tasks, and I like to know how the day is gonna go. And so I'm at the schedule being like, okay, like I could do this, can you do that? Can I do this? Like, it's not my job to like tell them what parts of the job to cover versus me. I could just go up there and be like, oh, I'd like to do these things. How does that work for you? I don't need to be like, I don't need to divvy up the work, but because I'm a project manager, I'll want to divvy up the work. So, yes, I've been told in my current job that I'm a little bit bossy.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

My mom bought me Miss Bossy Boots as a child.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Miss Bossy Boots. I I don't know the Miss Bossy Boots.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

I think it was one of those little Miss and Mr. books.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Okay. Oh, okay. I'm literally I'm literally thinking it was a brand of boots. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

No, no, no. I was I was given more than one book about why you should not be bossy.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Okay. Yeah. And see, here's the thing. I think that I'm not bossy, but I do come from a family of bossy women.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Um so you you must be in some ways.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

You know, I probably because I mean, and I mean, it's and that's kind of like our brand.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

I mean, look, if you want me to be strong in difficult situations, it's coming with bossy too. And some people are cringing that we're even using that word, but like unfortunately, there are things that I am I am like intentionally alluding to when I use that word. Like, and I don't think we use another term for it in America at the moment. Like, yeah, and I'm gonna tell you what to do.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

So I I kind of think about trying to make the distinction between bossy and then just kind of like clear. And yeah, and what I mean by that, I remember once we were I was doing a little online Zoom show. This was a little comedy show, and like one of the performers was on the fence. This is uh, you know, before it started, about if she was gonna perform, she didn't know if she was gonna be good enough, and she just seemed so tentative. And finally, I was just like, look, are you gonna do this or not? It sounds like you don't want to, so if you don't, don't. And for me, it was just a thing of where she was burning through our prep time. So I wasn't trying to be bossy, it's just that I was trying to get to the root of what the real issue or the problem was.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

Sounded like you were fed up.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Uh, I was fed up, but uh, I was not using language, hopefully, anyway, to reflect that. It was really I was just trying to un just get to the the the problem so we can just address the problem and move forward because you know the the time was the clock was ticking.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

I will say, out of all the places I've worked really, really hard to deliver messages with like respect, kindness, all those good things. One that I do not feel like I feel like I've only landed in that good those positive ways, maybe like 5% of the time, is when I'm like, you know, bleep or get off the pot. Like just what are we doing here? I can't, I cannot ride the Ferris wheel again around again. Like I cannot do this again. That's when I um my strength becomes a weakness because I'm like I'm not I'm actually not being strong. I'm being weak enough that I need to just stop it, stop it. And that's where like at least I'm honest with people, but it's the dark side of feeling comfortable and confident saying that. Okay, no one wants that. No one wants their friend or like someone they're like a sounding, you know, like no one wants to be like you you just need to do it or not. Yeah, you just need to do it or not. Like, and actually don't think that's a terrible way to deliver it in some contexts, but I can see myself saying that to my boss if they were being wishy-washy being like, I don't know, but you gotta decide.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

Make a decision.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

You just it's on, you gotta decide.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

The end.

SPEAKER_03 36:46

You know, it is what it is. I think like now we've kind of wandered from like being the strong one to having a strong personality. I have a strong personality that helps me sometimes be the strong one, and other times I think when people need those skills out of me, like they can take for they can take it for granted. But I have to be really careful right now, like not my circus. Like, go they just let them do their things, don't step up and help everyone get some pull it together. Like, your job is not to help people get it together, Jesse. You are not paid at that bracket. They might, I mean, even though they're asking you to, you are not paid at that bracket. So do not let them take advantage.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

And that's what I was concerned, but more so kind of like in your personal life as opposed to in uh you know when it comes to work. Are you strong? Um, when you step in and you find yourself needing to be strong, do you just offer it and volunteer, or is it a thing of where people solicit your support?

SPEAKER_03 37:59

Unfortunately, I volunteer it very quickly usually. But yeah, when my friend's parent passed away, it was like I knew how complicated it was for them. I know how hard it is going through a loved one's like toiletries, like that's very weird and hard. So I'm like, I'll go down with you, like I'll go through everything with you. It'll be like I'm there, it's no problem. Like didn't even hesitate. And they and they were we were very close at the time. So I do think that made sense. It wasn't something they were gonna ask me to do every month, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

Um, so I am that person. Um but when it comes to like, but you also I also have to remember to let people figure it out for themselves. And it is also a skill to ask someone for help, and so I can I can wait for them to develop that skill too. I don't need to fix it for them. Even though I really want to.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Even though you really want to. I really want to sometimes. You can't help yourself.

SPEAKER_03 39:01

But yes, we are we are working on we are working on holding back, and that does not feel efficient, and we know how I feel about efficiency.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Efficiency is very important to Jesse.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

It's so important to Jesse. So I don't think there's anyone who's asked me to do a whole lot of things. I think I've certainly worried about asking that one friend in particular to do a lot of things and you know, been nervous I wasn't stepping up enough. But like every time they asked me, I was absolutely there. I proactively offered things like that. Um so you just have to trust people that if they're not getting what they need out of a relationship, they won't will choose not to be in it at the same time. So I think we're having like three combos at a time, but I think when it comes to the idea of being strong, the strong one, people can lean on you more than is fair. But it's about like taking turns.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Yeah, and I mean that I I think that of course is ideal in terms of when it's a back and forth and it's not just a unilateral one-way street type of a thing.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

I will tell you, most adorable thing happened uh the other day because I work where I like there's nobody around me geographically. I'm worried about my health. I'm a little worried I'm gonna like pass out. And so I asked my coworker, I was like, I don't think this is ever gonna come up, but I'm just really nervous. Like, if I have to go in an ambulance, will you come with me? Because like they know I'm doing some health stuff right now. They're like, would you come with me just because I would like I'd be a lot less scared? And they were immediately like, of course I would. Like I was like, because I I told them, I was like, because I know you would like try multiple times to get a hold of my husband, so my husband could come. Like, that's I wouldn't, I would want to like trust that, right? Absolutely. Of course I would go, no problem. Later in the day, I found out they're afraid of like blood and medical things. And I'm like, you're gonna pass out in the ambulance. Like, yeah, probably. I'm like, get out of the ambulance. Okay. Do not pretend to be the strong one when you are absolutely not equipped to be. That's the moral of the story.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

I mean, so here's my question. Would you tell somebody no, I will not ride with you in an area? Sorry, if there's an emergency, I think you're gonna be on your own because I don't like blood.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

I think I'm the only person with that would say yes, I want them to say that to me. Because you're like, no, Harbin, because you're not making my life better or easier, you're making it harder.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

I'm still caught up on the ambulance thing. My thought was, will you go with me in an Uber to the hospital? Do you know how much ambulances cost?

SPEAKER_03 41:48

So because at our workplace, like I think we have to.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Who pays?

SPEAKER_03 41:56

Oh, I think we all know. Um I mean, you can refuse an ambulance, but if I were to pass out, I actually would need to go to a hospital right now.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Yeah, but an Uber can take you to the hospital.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

An Uber can't stabilize my pulse.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

Okay, so if you needed medical attention, if you needed medical attention, okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:23

Yes. Otherwise, like for sure, like but that can wait till after work. Like You were like absolutely not paying that copay.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

I know. Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

But that's the thing. If I'm awake, if I wake up, I'm in a position where I can say no and it doesn't cost you any money.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So okay, I get it in terms of the passing out. I would probably say, Can you spray some water on my face? And if I don't come to, would you go in the ambulance with me?

SPEAKER_03 43:01

I feel like what should have been said, also, they do listen to this podcast now. They're gonna be like, I can't believe you're talking about it, but I'm gonna. Um the I would say, like, because you're like, who would say no to that? I was like, I would say, like, yes, of course. Also, I'm bad at medical things, so maybe ask someone else to. I think that would be a very fair and honest answer.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

So I okay, here's my thought. If you're passed out, you don't need the moral support because you're under. If they pass out in the ambulance, you know, she's in the ambulance, she's not gonna have to pay, I'm assuming. And so it's you know, what's the problem is what I'm trying to figure out.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

I'm envisioning me awake but panicking and need to calm down.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Okay, that's Uber. You're panicking because of that copay.

SPEAKER_03 43:54

But I need to, but but see the thing, but you don't know exactly what happened. I need to be like monitored immediately. Is the thing. I can't just be like in an Uber on my own. I could like something the next step is even worse, right? So just go with that assumption that like I have to be monitored.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

You're too hung up on the cost of an ambulance instead of ideas being strong.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

You're way too caught up on the cost of an ambulance. I'd say roll the window down. Yeah. I mean, I have only gone to the ER in a car. Like I have never taken an ambulance. Mind you, I also like had a broken leg and was still just driven to the ER instead of an ambulance. Like, just throw her in the back. Here we go.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

I mean, you're gonna be in the lobby with a broken leg for about three hours. Waiting in the city. Depends how broken it is. No, you look, unless it's your heart, you should be like, it's my leg and my heart that's broken. I need to be seen immediately.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

I mean, I I do think that we landed on it. Would be helpful for me to be distracted by them being ridiculous. And that in itself would help me calm down.

SPEAKER_02 45:05

Yeah, now that works.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

While we were waiting for my husband. Um I was like, wow, I think we get like halfway to the hospital and be like, kick them out. I just kick him out. I'm done. But that's the thing where it's like, let's all like acknowledge our strengths and weaknesses. And if you're not the right person for that, maybe you say something. But to your point, no one wants to say no, I'm not gonna go with you to the hospital. I guess maybe I should change my ad. No, I'm not gonna ask someone in advance if they can drive to the hospital. That'd be too that's that's that's not appropriate. I can just ask them to go.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

Just take an Uber, that's what they're there for.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

I know, but Uber drivers don't know CPR.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

This is true. This is true.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

You're thinking of like fainting, like overheating a little tiny bit, not like heat stroke.

unknown 46:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

If you have heat stroke, you are not going in an ambulance. I mean, you are going in an ambulance.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Well, I mean, yeah, the word stroke makes me think ambulance. Mm-hmm. Sure does.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

This isn't like, oh, I got lightheaded because I blew my nose too quickly. Have you ever done that where you just never mind, that's gross. Like, no. No, I have not. I have not literally done that, but I will spare you what I was gonna ask. Um, so this is all true. I mean, this idea of being strong is something people can take advantage of. It is something I'm happy to be for people who I love and care about. Um, it doesn't even if I I never asked them for anything, I'm still happy to be there and support them. But it's when people only take, take, take that it's you know, you gotta respect yourself because if you gotta give to yourself too.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 46:56

Any other thoughts on the idea of you know being the strong one? Do you feel like it uh uh uh limits how people view you?

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Um I I think that they're you know, I think that one of the I think that probably because of, you know, disability, I try not to be perceived as though I need help, even though you know, uh people are very kind spirited and nice and they want to help and do other things. Uh but I think that I probably overcompensate in many ways. Um just because it's easier to just you know it's easier to live and function in a way that I understand how to, as opposed to kind of like having to make adjustments to people who um want to help aggressively.

SPEAKER_03 48:06

Say more about that last part.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

Oh, aggressively?

SPEAKER_03 48:08

Oh, you know, it's just interesting. Well, no, like the whole part, like it's easier for you to X instead of people Y.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

Like Well, no, I mean bottom line is I'm always going to try to do what I can. Uh and and I'm not even talking about even with relationships, it's just in terms of I think I'm kind of caught up on the strong part. Uh, because for me, sometimes it can kind of get a little difficult and challenging when people, and again, kind-spirited people want to help and you know, insisting and this, that, the other. Um, and I think that I kind of just like have that layer of strength because I don't know, maybe it's a thing of where I want to be perceived a certain way, but then also I've got to be able to stick to my system. Mm-hmm. And uh, you know, sometimes like I've literally had people take things from me before uh without asking or without me, without me asking. And it has made it, you know, whether it be balance or whatever. And again, I mean like, and I don't want to go down this road too much because at the end of the day, people are are trying to be nice and supportive. And I I 100% appreciate the sentiment. And there have been times where people have asked, you know, I'm carrying a bag down the stairs, and folks have asked, you want me to get that for you? And sometimes I say, Yeah. I mean, I try to struggle, I try to deal with it, but there's sometimes I'm just tired. But my point is that I think that I've kind of just been in my mind socially conditioned to try to be strong, uh, just in terms of, you know, I guess just a survival skill. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 50:10

Yeah, asking for help has has been historically very hard, and I think that's one area that I've grown the last three years. Um not that I'm all the way there. I mean, I've and I've I've certainly had people in my life I did feel comfortable asking for help, and I like probably overleaned on them because I didn't feel comfortable asking most people for help. So I'm like one or two people anytime I needed it, and like that wasn't fair to them.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

Right, right, right, right, right. Type of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 50:37

But no, I mean, and we've talked a little bit about this, I think, on the disability episode too. But yeah, the the idea of being strong is something that is very different in my brain now than it has been historically in my life, because like at this age, the idea of being physically strong is something that is really fun to me. And the idea of being mentally and emotionally strong feels less important than it ever has.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 51:08

And that's weird that that doesn't feel as important. I think just because it's like, well, yeah, look at you know, like you're allowed to be human. Um, you still show up for people that you love when you can and to the degree that you, you know, whatever you're able to do. But like I am very, you know, and I'm building new friendships right now, and I'm just still kind of thinking about it. Like, what are you offering up? You know, and there's someone that like I've been friends with for a few months now, and like I'll offer them a lot, and they say no a lot of the times, and it's actually really helpful to me.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

So give me an example, because I don't think I'm really understanding.

SPEAKER_03 51:48

Like, oh, like you're only five minutes out of the way. Do you want to carpool to this location? Like, if they say no, then it's like, oh, I might not understand it because that would have been helpful to me, but there might be there's clearly a reason that it's not helpful to them, and you just need to trust that and move forward.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:08

Yeah. So I think it's the same emotionally too. A lot of people like try to solve, oh, I was at a bad doctor's appointment like two weeks ago, and I didn't want to call some of my closest friends because I'm like, they're gonna be mad on my behalf, and I can't have that right now. That's not gonna help me be strong. That's not being strong for me in this specific case. So I call my friend as a psychologist and was like, I need to talk to a psychologist, and guess what? I don't think I've ever called her out like in that way, just to be like, I need you to understand what's cognitively happening to me, just so someone understands how much I'm flipping out right now. It's extremely helpful. So they were the strong one for me. It was yeah, that's a great example where like taking turns being the strong one is really hard, though. Like I put on a brunch meetup with that person, like um, you know, that person's name and Jesse meetup, and Jesse cries over brunch. And then they were on the way and they'd had a setting morning, and their partner was like, Well, just like cry cry to Jesse. And they replied, but Jesse put she's crying at this brunch on the calendar. I was like, You could also cry. We could both cry at brunch. Like, you know, you just do the best you can.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Yeah. So this is all true.

SPEAKER_03 53:29

Thanks for joining us, everyone. We have many different thoughts on the idea of strength and relationships, but I think a lot of it really where we agree is that make sure that you are looking out for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 53:45

I think that's the biggest takeaway. You gotta protect yourself. If if you don't protect yourself, you know, you're toast.

SPEAKER_03 53:54

Yeah, you give to others, look out for others, you can be the strong one, but if you're the only one who's being strong at all times, that's not ideal.

SPEAKER_02 54:02

Not ideal. Unless it's your grandma and she needs help.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Yeah, I mean, when you were talking about physical help, all I could think of was when we would go grocery shopping with my grandma and think it was helping her to push the cart, and she would get so mad at us because she needed it to lean on. Yep. Exactly. She would get livid. All these people are we're in Texas. Everyone's like looking, giving us dirty looks for not pushing your shopping cart, but sure. Sure. All right, everyone. Thanks for joining us for another episode. Comments, questions, topics you'd like us to revisit or hear or talk about for the first time. Uh, go ahead and email me at hello at meridian by jessie with an ie.com. Uh, and we will talk to you next time. Bye bye. Bye.