Wellbeing isn't just for the wealthy with Steve Leventhal

“One of the most beautiful, sort of promising - and also tragic - statements that I heard very, very early on, when I started this work, nearly what 17-18, years ago was the girls would say, ‘Nobody ever told us we had strengths.’” 
- Steve Leventhal, CEO of WorldBeing

In this episode of Standing Up Strong, Steve Leventhal joins Dr. Jillian Coppley to talk about why wellbeing isn’t something we earn after things get better—it’s what helps people make things better.
Through his work with young people around the world, Steve shows that when kids recognize their strengths, believe in their worth, and learn how to speak up, they’re better equipped to stand up to injustice, inequality, and difficult circumstances. 

By starting from the inside out—building identity, kindness, and courage—Steve reminds us that upstanders aren’t born; they’re developed. And when we invest in wellbeing, we’re not just helping individuals thrive—we’re helping communities change. 

More about host Jillian Coppley: 

Dr. Jillian Coppley is a visionary executive recognized internationally for her expertise in character strengths, wellbeing, and organizational transformation. With deep experience in positive psychology, strategy, and change, she has led large-scale collaborations, built global programs, strategic partnerships, and thriving organizational cultures that empower individuals, teams and organizations to flourish. Her leadership blends strategic vision, research-based innovation, and deep personal care for others —creating environments where people and programs thrive and where meaningful, lasting impact takes root.  

This series is part of the Cynthia & Harold Guttman Family Center for Storytelling at the Nancy & David Wolf Holocaust & Humanity Center in Cincinnati, Ohio, where the science of character strengths is integral to our work creating a community of upstanders.  
https://www.holocaustandhumanity.org/   
https://www.youtube.com/@holocaustandhumanity      

Our thanks to the Mayerson Family Foundation and the VIA Institute on Character for their support of this series     
https://www.mayersonfoundation.org/       
https://www.viacharacter.org/    

Episode Resources 

Read more about the work at WorldBeing 
https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_missing_link_in_girls_education  

Follow WorldBeing on LinkedIn 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/worldbeing/  

Follow Steve 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-leventhal-a2748/  

Follow Jillian 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jcoppley/  

Take a free character strengths quiz 
https://www.holocaustandhumanity.org/upstander/assess-your-character-strengths/

Transcript

Jackie Congedo: 0:02

Inside you lie unique character strengths just waiting to be used. Standing up strong is where we harness them to build resilience, spark hope and inspire courage. Lean into the best parts of who you are and lift others as you rise.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 0:19

Hello, I'm Dr Jillian Coppley, and I am delighted to welcome you to Standing Up Strong, the podcast where we welcome some of the biggest minds and hearts in all of positive psychology, true global luminaries in the field of human flourishing. I am particularly excited today to welcome Steve Leventhal to the show. Steve is an extraordinary human and a true, ardent advocate for wellbeing as a common good. We are so fortunate to have him here today. Since the time I have known Steve, he has been a passionate expert practitioner and just voice for people who are in difficult circumstances, looking for well being. From the first time I met Steve when he was working in a grassroots program with 100 young women girls in an urban Sufi community, to now being a national advocate and policy advisor for wellbeing inside school systems. He is the founder and CEO of World Being, a global nonprofit advancing systems for change in adolescent mental health by embedding well being into national education systems across India, Kenya and Rwanda. Steve's work has undoubtedly shaped policy, curriculum and teacher training for nearly 4 million educators and learners around the world and beyond that, Steve and his team have an extraordinary vision to reach 30 million educators and students in the year by the year 2030 - lovely and beautiful ambitions they have in mind. So excited to hear more about all of that before we jump in, I'll say one more thing I know about Steve on a personal note, that he is an Akito practitioner, and it's such a beautiful, beautiful representation of some of the things he thinks about in terms of an inside out perspective on leadership and change, and we'll invite him to share more about that in just a minute. So welcome, Steve, so delighted you're here.

Steve Leventhal: 2:28

Thank you, Jillian, I'm absolutely equally delighted to be here with you. You're a luminary yourself in this field, and it's a pleasure to join you today.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 2:38

So generous of you. Thank you. So let's just jump right into it. Steve, I mean, you have really been devoted to wellbeing for decades and thinking about it in really rich and interesting ways, and you've done that in so many different kinds of communities. I'd love to know a little bit more about how you think about wellbeing and how you see it showing up both similarly and differently in the places you've worked around the world?

Steve Leventhal: 3:04

Thank you. That's, that's a loaded question in itself. It's a great question to start with. You know, recently, not so recently, but, but certainly over the last whatever, 20 years, let's call it, there's certainly been, you know, models at a sort of more global level that have been proposed and researched. PERMA being a great example of that. When we teach positive psychology or teach our work in areas that we teach, we also talk about PERMA. We teach PERMA to to teachers, school teachers, for example. And for those who may not be familiar with PERMA it's really the concept around Positive Emotions, positive Relationships, Meaning, Accomplishments. You know that all of this combined creates a sense of wellbeing, a sense of life with purpose and flourishing. And I do agree. I do feel that universe, that world being, wellbeing, is universal across cultures and contexts, but I also feel that some of those definitions can get a bit sanitized. So for example, working in the populations that we work with in low and middle income countries, we think a lot about the context in which, you know, which the children and the school teachers that we train live in, and those contexts typically are, let's say, poverty entrenched, social economic inequities, gender discrimination, racial discrimination, You know, caste discrimination in India, and probably more so for example, one of the things that we focus on, particularly with adolescent girls, for example, is cultivating the ability to speak up for oneself, because many of these girls don't have a voice, and they live a life where they face a lot of entrenched... harassment and discrimination. So if you think, just for example, about that ability to stand up for yourself, you think about what, what is, what? What does that take? Right on the surface, you might well say, Well, that takes self confidence, and it takes, you know, the development of communication skills and so on. But actually, as you delve into it, you know, when I think about it, so much more than that, it takes love. It takes a belief in my self worth. And you know, then, if you follow all of that way back, well, then it takes a sense of self identity, a sense of self that transcends the status quo. One is one in which I'm able to imagine a possibility that I can be so much more than I am, or what than what I was born into, and what I was told was my place in my in society. So when you look at all of that, and you think about wellbeing, then you know, sometimes I get a little bit confused, because that is both about it is certainly about relationship, but it is much more than that. It's really about a sense of identity that, you know, in our program, we sort of talk about turning on the light. It's like waking kids up to that possibility of even having that kind of identity and aspirations, you know, selves. So I think wellbeing gets, you know, sort of mixed up in a lot of that. We actually did a survey, not a survey, a study, a mixed, mixed method study, a little over a year ago, in a state called Bihar, which is the poorest state in India, is a population of 120 million people. That's about one third of the United States, right, just in that one state. And we did a series, I think it was two or three workshops, if I remember correctly, with school going adolescence, and we put them through a variety of questions about what wellbeing meant to them. And I think some of those map quite well to PERMA and some but it was really in their own language, and just quickly, because we don't have much, you know, time to go into all the methods, anything like that, but we certainly saw there were themes like doing things that were fulfilling, right, that met with meaning, and PERMA, things that were enjoyable, being your best self, feeling proud about yourself, feeling happy or feeling calm, content and, you know, and having a sense of love and connection with your family and others. So I think there is a universal versality to that, for sure, amongst different contexts, but they just express it differently.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 7:34

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense to me in this, you know, we think about that a lot in the character strengths work, that even though those are universal, the way they are manifest can be different with, you know, across cultures and across across communities, really, really, really interesting.

Steve Leventhal: 7:53

So they do a lot of work character strengths. So I completely agree with,

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 7:58

yeah. So we'll definitely loop back on that. But I want to go just a little bit deeper in what you were saying with the idea that, you know when I introduced you, which, again, I could go on and on and on with all the things you've accomplished and done. So it's very limited, but, you know, with the notion of inside out and what that means to you. I feel like I started to hear some of that coming through. But I know you think about that from, you know, a systems change perspective and a leadership perspective too. Do you want to say any, any more maybe to us about that?

Unknown: 8:32

Yeah, sure. Yeah. So we, we identified a model very early on, what that we called"working from the inside out." And really, as I was alluding to earlier, we found that there were these basic issues of self identity, you know, self concept, what is possible. So we quickly realized we had to start with, just with that. I mean, really, that basic sense of self. And so if you think about, let's say concentric, concentric circles emanating out from that first crucial piece of identity. We really start with, we really start actually, with character strengths. So just identifying, what are your strengths? And we do very, very basic, simple exercises, nothing like an online, you know, VIA questionnaire, because most of the children don't have access to, you know, to technology or the internet like that. But very basic ideas that kind of wake up the sense of that I have strengths. And you may have heard me talk about this before, but one of the most beautiful, sort of promising and also tragic statements that I heard very, very early on, when I started this work, nearly what 17-18, years ago was the girls would say, "Nobody ever told us we had strengths." And the power of that statement is, for me, is so intense, and I've since heard, heard it many times since, you know, since then, um. Um, so starting with that sense of, what are my strengths? And then we go into basically the emotional body, you know, emotional awareness, emotional competence. How do you identify your emotions? How do you express them in ways that are, you know, peaceful and useful and so on and so forth. And then, if you think about that, then that really starts to take you into your interactions with others, right? So again, it's concentric circles you get into the your interpersonal relationships. So teaching communication skills, assertive communication, nonviolent communication, your interactions with others, yeah, and then dealing with external circumstances that you find yourself in. And of course, most of these children find themselves in pretty challenging situations. So then we try to really ground it in your interactions with the external world, right? Like problem solving. How do you set a goal? How do you problem solve to achieve that goal? Strategies, conflict resolution, because inevitably you're going to face conflict. So if you again, if you think of all that that's really starting from the inside and then going out, emanating out to your interactions with the external world and and how you're going to build your resilience to challenges and overcome them.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 11:13

Yeah, no, I love that, Steve. I mean this, I this idea of social health I hear coming through as you're talking, which I think is such a good term I've heard people use lately, Kasley Killam, I think is maybe someone who had coined that. But it's just that sense of originating from the inside, knowing who I am, and then out from there, I can learn research based skills to strengthen my connection, just so critically important for all of us, no matter where we are. Yeah, I want to follow that.

Steve Leventhal: 11:47

Let me just say to that Jillian, that that when we do the character strengths work, that really exactly what you just said, really comes in because we asked the kids, you know, to identify their own strengths as they see them. But we also put them through an exercise where they go home and they ask a parent or a caregiver, you know, or somebody in the village, how they see their strengths. And so it does get into that, that social piece and my connection to others and how they perceive me, versus how do I perceive myself?

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 12:16

Yeah, oh, that's amazing. I love hearing that. I mean, it's interesting thinking about, you know, in our workplaces, work we do, you know, a 360 on our strengths, talking to a manager and a peer and someone a direct report. And in your work, you're doing the same thing. I love hearing the commonalities of that in wildly different context that this work has, you know, such such such strength to it and such a research base that it works in a wide variety of contexts. So it's, it's very affirming to hear. I want to shift gears a little bit and and ask you about, you know, we have lots of misconceptions about poverty and and one of the one of those that you've spoken about as I understand it, Steve, and correct me if I don't have it right here, but this notion that one of the misconceptions is, well, we'll address poverty, and then we'll work on wellbeing. And you say, as I understand it, no, we've got that backwards. We need to flip that on its head. Wherever you are, wherever you're showing up, we can think about wellbeing, and we can address the difficult context as well or alongside or after, etc. Can you, can you talk to us a little bit about that, assuming I have it right, in terms of

Steve Leventhal: 13:32

Oh, you do have it right. And I could go on and

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 13:32

I truly am a ripple effect. Again, like your thoughts? on, because it's, it's been, it's been a theme for so many years. You know, when I first started, I know this, I noticed, it's I noticed that there was just this big gap around the concept of wellbeing and how it applied, particularly in the development world. People really think about like the SDGs, the Sustainable Development Goals. And so one of the things that I felt was, I don't know if I would call it a mistake, but in terms of people, the way people were talking at that time around mental health, really, there are two things going on. First that people, when you would say the word mental health, they immediately went to mental illness, right? So I'm talking about mental health and wellbeing. They're talking about depression, anxiety, psychosis, schizophrenia, things like that. your wise words about starting from the inside and going to Not that. Of course, all of that is important. But when we think from the development perspective, if you go into many of the communities, like when I first started, you notice that your outside, and then from there and from there and from there's all these assets, all these strengths that are lying there, untapped, you know, there's humor, and there's love and there's joy, even in in, you know, in impoverished slum communities that I've worked in, right? There's, there's, there's exuberance, curiosity, imagination, so on, right? And a thirst for knowledge. And those are huge, untapped, you know. Are pieces of the puzzle, you know, if you will. So when I first started, I noticed that there was this big gap when nobody was kind of focusing on this. This is around 2008 2009 certainly not much work being done at scale, and there was very little research. So what we realized when we conducted our first randomized control trial in India in 2013 and what we realized was, hey, actually, what we really need to show here is that if you focus on well being, the skills of wellbeing, skills of resilience and so on, that we're going to have impacts not only on mental health, but also, for example, on education, gender rights, gender equity, and even on physical health and kids ability to advocate for their rights. And sure enough, we did a very large scale. Was like 3500 girls, 70 something schools, again, in the state of Bihar that I mentioned, which is the poorest state in the country, in India. And the results were, you know, honestly, that's what put us on the map. We saw a lot of impacts on self efficacy, for example, gender ability to advocate for, you know, gender rights, your education rights, your health rights, impacts on school engagement, school attendance. And since then, we've done, I think, seven randomized control trials at this point, over 20, about over 20 evaluations across India, Kenya, Rwanda. The results have been very, you know, consistent across there, and the impact just continues to grow. Thank you for populations. And we also see impacts, like on the school itself, you know, on the school teachers, on the teacher, student relationships, student, student relationships and so on. So it's very interesting that you start with this concept, which is really, again, about, you know, your basic self and your self identity, and finding meaning and purpose in your life and the strengths to make that happen. And then you see these, these impacts across so many domains. It's been super exciting and personally, just very inspiring. that, that reminder. I'm curious when you're when you're working in these different communities, different contexts, different age groups, for yourself, what character strengths do you find yourself relying on most? What do you think are most important as you, as you do your work?

Steve Leventhal: 17:50

Well, there's a bunch that you have to rely on. 18 years and deal with all the obstacles.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 17:57

The higher the demand, the more character strengths involved.

Steve Leventhal: 18:02

Go back and you go, oh boy, I kind of forgot about that one. You know, I honestly, I would say the first one for me is just about kindness, like every relationship. Somebody was asking me about this the other day, well, how do you deal with the government, and how do you deal with this, and how do you deal with blah, blah, blah, it's like, you know, every interaction starts with a smile. If you can start with that, people relax and sort of get into a place of commonality, as opposed to, you know, this guy coming from a high income country and telling us what to do, right, which, of course, we're not trying to do. I think you know, genuine curiosity, willingness to listen. I mean, listening skills sort of trump everything, and meeting people where they are, not necessarily where you want them to be, but where they are. And yeah, so that genuine curiosity is really important to tap into, and certainly, perseverance is a strength that's well needed. And humor, you know humor for sure, yeah, just humor and everything, just humor in the human condition in general. So there's nothing short no shortage of that.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 19:14

Yeah, I love that. I love that. I love your encouragement to simply start with a smile. I mean, the work you're doing is is complex and demanding and but the key being start with a smile. It's just a beautiful, simple reminder. So as you are looking at this work, and you've done it now for, you know, two plus decades, it feels to me at least ever more urgent. And I wonder, I wonder if you have that sense, or why you think it's maybe you know that you've set an extraordinary goal by 2030 to reach, you know, 30 million youth and educators. Why do you feel like this is the moment for this work, or it's, it's so important at this time?

Steve Leventhal: 20:07

Yeah, thank you for that question. Jillian, so I, you know, honestly, I think, I think there's two, there's two, two reasons that really, or two forces that kind of push me forward personally around this first is, I think most people don't realize, probably there's about a 1 billion youth living in low, low, middle income countries today, and that's what that's about 12% of the world's population, and most of them are, there's still, you know, there's still a population that's out of school, of course, but that gap is closing pretty much every year. So we're not at universal education, but we're getting close to it. So most of those 1 billion children, or large number, percentage of them, are first time learners. First time ever, right, in the history of their families, going back, whatever, 1000s of years, that's the first time they're having an opportunity to go to school. And the question that nags at me is, like, you look at the current state of the world, are we going to basically educate these children the way we have been educating, because if we are and we're expecting a different result, like sanity, right, we're not going to get that. So I think there's this huge opportunity. Imagine if you could educate 12% of the population in the language of love, kindness, empathy, forgiveness, and you didn't stop there. You really tied that, as we tried to do, to really practical ways to make tangible improvements in their lives, because those are really powerful forces, and if you can tie that to how to problem solve and how to communicate, you know you can change the trajectory of your life. And our research absolutely confirms that. So that's one definite motivating factor. And the second piece is, as you alluded to, this no no secret that the world at large has become highly polarized and far more you know, I think about World War Two and my parents and my grandparents and the polarity, polarized world they were facing, like the Allied powers and the Axis powers and so on. But actually, this is, this is worse because it's at a very, very individual level, thanks to, thanks to thanks to technology and social media, right, constant streams of partisanship, vilification of the other you know, lack of openness to different points of view, extremism, lack of listening, all these things that we know, right? So from my perspective, at a bare minimum, if we don't teach the next generation these kinds of skills, then, you know, they don't have a way to tackle the issues at hand.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 23:08

Yeah, yeah. I think that's probably hits home for all of us, you know, as we experience the division, certainly not just in the places you're working, but but right here in our home country of the United States, I'm curious what you see as the possibility there, Steve, for the work that you're doing, and potentially even US schools.

Steve Leventhal: 23:33

I hope that somebody will do it. It needs to be done. I don't think it's us. And that's really maybe more than anything, just a matter of bandwidth and where, you know, priorities lie. And it's not as though there aren't plenty of amazing people doing this kind of work. I think what has set us apart is the scope and scale that we're working at and that we're working very, very hard to integrate our work into the systems themselves. So it's not reliant upon philanthropy long term. It's not relying on us long term. It's that. It's that our it's what's called systems change. So it's, it's really working directly with the governments to integrate well being, programming, training, you know, evaluation and so on and so forth, policy deep into the education system and in the United States, that happens quite a bit in private schools, so if you have privilege, you learn these skills somewhat certainly. In the public school system, generally speaking, not, not all right, we have a lot of differences state by state, but generally speaking, it's seen as an add on or optional or soft skills, whatever that term actually meeans

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 24:53

one of my least favorite terms. Yes,

Steve Leventhal: 24:55

yeah, I challenge anybody to define that. Mm. Um, yeah. So, you know, we're just not in a place where I have seen that we can actually make a difference. And if we could, then I think we would do it. But yeah, the doors have to be open in order for you. You know, you can only bang so many times.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 25:15

Yeah, absolutely understood. And the notion you have about not just having a momentary change, right, a drop in, if you will, but making sure that the work you do is deeply seated in the system, so that it can be sustained and nurtured and a part of the way one becomes educated. I think seems so essential, or else it's likely a waste of, really, energy and effort.

Steve Leventhal: 25:43

Yeah, it's been a, I don't know if I'd call it necessarily a failing, but the international sort of development sector, the NGO and nonprofit world, so on and so forth, too often we end up sort of working in parallel systems. And I don't, I just think that that's responsible. You have to do that at times when you're piloting something new and you're creating the research base like and that's been our experience. But at some point you have to say, This can't be sustained by philanthropy. It can't be stand by charity. It can't be sustained by foreigners, right? It has to be owned and integrated within the local system. And I would say, you know, if anything good came out of covid in many countries, the openness of the governments has really, I mean, it's really transformed, whereas, as I would have had, you know, the door slammed in my face 10 years ago, 15 years ago now. I mean, government after government, we can't move fast enough.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 26:44

Yeah, we put it that way, yeah, I love knowing that.

Steve Leventhal: 26:49

Yeah, it's really great. Unfortunately, not everybody, you know. Many people don't know it, yeah, but the amazing, and I'll just quickly use India as one example. They came out a few years ago with what's called the new education policy, and within that policy, I don't remember the exact number, but it's over something like 80 times within the policy that it mentioned student wellbeing, resilience, health, of course, that was never in there previously at this size. So that gives us an entryway at the state level to talk to state governments who say, hey, we need to do this. But we don't know how. Nobody would have ever said that, you know, five years ago,

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 27:23

yeah, oh my gosh. I love knowing that. I mean truly, so much, so much hope and what you've shared. I mean that that the work can grow, that it can ripple effect to ever larger, larger outcome and impact, that more and more people around the world are opening their doors to this kind of work and to setting a new generation in motion, and, you know, a new world really, for us to create, starting at the youngest grades. I mean, I find that all extraordinarily hopeful.

Steve Leventhal: 27:51

It is very, very hopeful. Yeah, totally agree. And as you alluded to, I'd love to see more of it happening in our own country, not just small pockets, but yeah, in many countries, it is happening, yeah, very exciting.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 28:04

So of all of the hopeful and insightful and interesting things that you've shared with us, Steve, I'm curious if you wanted listeners to take just one thing away that they now know or that they could do, or that you'd want to see them. Remember, what would what would you say? I know that's a tall order, but what would you encourage a tall order?

Steve Leventhal: 28:28

There's probably, there's probably a few, but I would start with,

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 28:31

okay, I'll give you a few. Well, I would always start with,

Steve Leventhal: 28:35

be kind you know that's, that's like a bumper sticker saying, I'm sorry it is. But I would start with that. And I would also say to believe in the universe universality of this work, as I was saying at a time when there's so much focus on what makes us different, I think it's really important to provide at least equal focus on what brings us together?

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 29:02

Yeah, I love that. So it's just a beautiful reminder of both the simplicity and the power of this work of human flourishing. You know, at once, it is incredibly powerful we remember who we are at our best and act on that and treat others as if we can see the best in them, and it starts with that simple notion of start with a smile, as you reminded us earlier, or to simply be kind. Thank you so much, Steve, for spending this time talking to us and sharing your work and your insights and your wisdom. It's just so deeply appreciated.

Steve Leventhal: 29:40

Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's always a pleasure. Always a pleasure to see you.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 29:44

Pleasure to see you too. Take good care. Thank you for listening today. Let's keep showing up, standing up and remembering the best in ourselves and one another, moment to moment, and that's how we'll create a better world.

Jackie Congedo: 29:57

Standing up strong is a production of the Nancy & David Wolf Holocaust & Humanity Center, in partnership with the VIA Institute on Character. Find the link in the show notes to take a character strengths survey for free. Managing producer is Anne Thompson. Technical producer is Robert Mills, and technical director is Josh Emerson. This series is part of the Cynthia & Harold Guttman Family Center for Storytelling and is generously supported by the Mayerson Family Foundation. It is recorded at Technical Consulting Partner studios in Cincinnati, Ohio.