Renee Moorefield is changing the way we think about thriving

What does it really mean to thrive—especially in a world full of complexity, pressure, and constant change?  

“The way we define thriving is to be internally well-resourced to meet your complexities and demands with a sense of vitality, with a sense of competence, and with a sense of growth. And for us, this is absolutely not about chasing perpetual happiness, because that's not real life.”  
- Renee Moorefield 

In this episode, Dr. Jillian Coppley sits down with Renee Moorefield, CEO of Wisdom Works Group and a global leader in the science of human flourishing. Renee shares why thriving isn’t about being happy all the time—it’s about building the inner resources to face life’s challenges with energy, growth, and purpose. 

Together, they explore how leaders shape the environments where people either flourish or burn out. Renee also explains why thriving is no longer a “nice to have,” but a foundation for the kind of leadership our complex world needs now.  

This conversation also connects to the work of building upstanders—people who choose to show courage, care for others, and make a positive difference. Thriving helps us show up with the courage and compassion the world needs. 

Dr. Jillian Coppley is a visionary executive recognized internationally for her expertise in character strengths, wellbeing, and organizational transformation. With deep experience in positive psychology, strategy, and change, she has led large-scale collaborations, built global programs, strategic partnerships, and thriving organizational cultures that empower individuals, teams and organizations to flourish. Her leadership blends strategic vision, research-based innovation, and deep personal care for others —creating environments where people and programs thrive and where meaningful, lasting impact takes root.  

Renee Moorefield, PhD, MCC, is the CEO of Wisdom Works Group, a social enterprise partnering with global companies to integrate the science and practices of human thriving into their cultures, brands, and leadership—establishing thriving as the new standard of success. Through Wisdom Works’ core brand Be Well Lead Well®, leaders across the world gain access to a cutting-edge platform of science-based assessments, strategic advisory services, and development resources to lead and thrive with greater impact. Renee sits on the Advisory Board of the Global Wellness Institute and the Program Advisory Board of the John W. Brick Foundation, championing innovation in wellness and mental health worldwide. For over three decades, she has advanced a global movement of leaders committed to making thriving a priority across workplaces, communities, and society at large. 

This series is part of the Cynthia & Harold Guttman Family Center for Storytelling at the Nancy & David Wolf Holocaust & Humanity Center in Cincinnati, Ohio, where the science of character strengths is integral to our work creating a community of upstanders. https://www.holocaustandhumanity.org/  
https://www.youtube.com/@holocaustandhumanity  

Our thanks to the Mayerson Family Foundation and the VIA Institute on Character for their support of this series  
https://www.mayersonfoundation.org/  
https://www.viacharacter.org/  

Episode Resources 

Learn more about Wisdom Works 
https://www.wisdom-works.com/  
https://www.linkedin.com/company/wisdom-works-group

https://www.instagram.com/wisdomworksgroup 

Follow Renee and Jillian on LinkedIn 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/reneemoorefield/  
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jcoppley/  

Take your free character strengths quiz 
https://www.holocaustandhumanity.org/upstander/assess-your-character-strengths/

Transcript

Jackie Congedo: 0:02

Anne inside you lie unique character strengths just waiting to be used. Standing up strong is where we harness them to build resilience, Spark hope and inspire courage. Lean into the best parts of who you are and lift others as you rise.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 0:19

Hello and welcome. I'm Dr Jillian Coppley, and you have joined the Standing Up Strong podcast, the conversation where we get to welcome the world's biggest minds and hearts in the field of positive psychology, truly global luminaries in the field of human flourishing. It is my great pleasure and honor to welcome Dr Renee Moorefield today, Renee is a special guest to us, and she is just a wonder in the world. So many things I want to share with you. I'm going to share just a few. Dr Moorefield is the CEO of the Wisdom Works Group, and for more than 30 years, has championed a global movement to prioritize thriving across workplaces, communities and society through"Be Well and Lead Well," an initiative which includes rigorously tested proprietary assessments, strategy, advisory services and development tools. Renee and the Wisdom Work teams have helped leaders around the world lead with greater impact while they are personally thriving. Renee serves on the advisory board of the thought leading Global Wellness Institute and the John W Brick foundation. At the heart of Renee's work has been making thriving a new standard of success. And on a personal note, certainly Renee thinks about thriving for herself, and like all of us, it's very personalized, and one of the ways that she personalizes is through singing, which is just a joy to think about personally in groups, etc. And if you would like to see joy in motion. Look Renee up on LinkedIn and see one of her recent posts where she shares her joy of singing with us all. So with all of that in mind, Renee, thank you so much for being here today. I'm delighted to welcome you into the conversation.

Renee Moorefield: 2:15

Yeah, Jillian, thank you so much. It's really a pleasure to be here.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 2:19

So there's so much we can jump in today to today. And I know your knowledge is just so enormous that I'm going to try to be as strategic and focused as I can. But I think the best place to start is something that I think you talk about so beautifully, which can be, I don't know it's a common challenge in our space, which is, you know, we talk about thriving or flourishing, and people can think, Oh, it's just Pollyanna of you know, trying to make us be persistently happy. And that's really not what you're talking about at all. I mean, the way you describe it, I think, is so beautiful. It's about being well resourced to meet the complexity and the demand of life. So I'd love to have you talk a little bit more about how you think about thriving and what that means.

Renee Moorefield: 3:07

Awesome. Awesome. It's my favorite subject. So thank you for asking about that, and you hit the nail on the head with the definition. The way we define thriving is to be internally well resourced to meet your complexities and demands with a sense of vitality, with a sense of competence, and with a sense of growth. And for us, this is absolutely not about chasing perpetual happiness, because that's not real life. All of us in life as human beings on this planet, as organizations, on this planet, all of us are dealing with different challenges that show up, things that were thrown into, things that were born into, and demands that we don't expect and demands that we create. So we're all dealing with these complexities and demands. How do we show up in a way that we draw from this innate design for well being, an innate design for adaptability. So one metaphor I like to use that you and I talked about before is the metaphor of a tree in my backyard. We live on a stream, and in the backyard you can see some just really beautiful trees. We're in Colorado, see some really beautiful trees back there. And if you think about a tree or any living system that a living system needs challenge in order to grow, it doesn't just need nourishment and healthy soil and water. It also needs challenge. It needs that tree needs wind to strengthen its bark. So just like that living system, we are living systems we need, not just the nourishment, the eating well, moving, getting enough rest and recovery, using our breath effectively. We need that sense of challenge in our life. We need the ability to bring a sense of awe and really marvel at the wonder of life. We need a sense of agency to direct our lives and work. These are all aspects of this capacity to adapt and to be internally well resourced for thriving. And that idea of thriving the way we define it, which actually took a number of years, by the way Jillian, to get that definition exactly right, drawing from the science and drawing from the practice, that definition can really be used at multiple levels, individually, in groups, teams, cohorts, at an organizational level, at a societal level, what does it mean to be internally well resourced to deal with our complexities and demands and to do that well from essence of deep well being.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 5:56

yeah, oh my gosh, that's so powerful. Because, you know, truly in life, we're never going to get rid of the challenges. But you know, I hear you encouraging us by saying That's right, and how you face them is what's going to lead to your actual thriving. It's not that you're trying to avoid them, right? You're trying to embrace them, and you're

Renee Moorefield: 6:14

not, yeah, yeah, I'm so I'm sorry I'm getting excited about what you're saying. Absolutely not trying to avoid challenges. And in fact, you know, you can kind of think, and these aren't two separate ideas. We can all of us have probably been on both of these paths, but one path is if I just avoid that stress, if I just just avoid that challenge, I will feel better. And sometimes that might be in a situation the most appropriate response, but often it's using that exact challenge to build new ways of seeing, new ways of relating, new ways of responding and new capacity. So I even think of my own life and many executives that I've coached, many people have various traumas in their lives, and certainly, I don't wish trauma on anyone, but most people have had some sort of experience that has been an experience of trauma, and the way they hold trauma. Can we mine that? Can we mine that change for learn more about ourselves and to grow as human beings. So that's that's thriving even in the midst of some of the worst situations. So, yes, thriving, the definition took a long time to create, because it can be applied universally.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 7:43

Yeah, I love that, you know, and it overlaps with Renee, how I hear you talking about leadership, and this same kind of the leader as you know, the way, the way I've shared in my own work, it's the both the responsibility and the privilege to be able to create an ecosystem for people to thrive, right that you you've taken that language and used it, and that's the net, you know, group context of being the leader, being the one who can potentially, you know, orchestrate an ecosystem where others can thrive and and be at their best and and find those inner resources. But one of the things that really stands out to me, because we hear it so much on our work at VIA, you know, so a leader will come back with a signature strength of love and be at a complete loss of like, well, how in the world is that going to show up at work? That seems like, I'll just set that one aside. You know, in our workplaces where we, you know, still continue to prize control, or perfect performance, or all of these things. You know, people will be asking, How in the world, is love going to show up? And you really encourage us to go head first. Is that to really dive into that? I'd love to hear you talk a little bit more about that.

Renee Moorefield: 8:58

I love the question. I love the area of inquiry, because love is often thought of with a number of other things, compassion, empathy. These are thought of as soft, maybe even naive, and yet, I see them as almost higher order qualities that we are when we are in that state of expansiveness, if someone doesn't like the word love, by the way, we can use the word expansiveness that place that most people have the experience of in their felt experience or in their past. In fact, we do this. You can ask yourself, what is a time when I was really thriving, when I was in love with the world. So when we're in that place of expansiveness, some of the best leadership qualities come from that. We see ourself as a leader, as stewards of the environments where other people can show up fully, whole, complete with all of their potential. So we also ourselves, even from a nervous system level, are radiating this sense of of expansiveness to others in in neuroscience, it's called co regulation. So we are coming from a place from our breath to our the variability of our heart rate, to our brain waves, to everything about us is radiating a sense of safety, a sense of well being that others experience even before they can perceive it. Their nervous systems also catch that as a contagion and feel like it's safe to be myself here. I'm included here. I belong here. And when you have that kind of foundation, you really have the foundation for for a highly productive group of people. So I think love is critical. It's really critical. It's not it's not only not soft, it is the foundation of really effective leadership. It is when we shift from old styles of leadership that are about control or about reactivity, coming from a zero sum game, really protection and defensive routines. It is about that shift from that through a shift of, what can we create together that we cannot create alone? And how can we create that environment where all of us can show up well, and we all gain from that, so that zero sum game to a world of true abundance, and that's a big shift, people. It's easy to say that, by the way, I even know it myself, and I teach this, and I've been committed to it my entire adult life. And I also get to a place where, if I am not feeling internally well resourced, maybe I haven't slept well for a few days, maybe I haven't been eating well. Maybe I lost a sense of gratitude, you know, maybe I'm not paying attention to myself well enough and how resourced I am. I can also show up very reactive and very in the fix it mode and seeing people as human resources instead of whole human being. This is a journey for all of us, right? You know, it's really a journey for all of us.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 12:20

Yeah. I mean, it reminds me that, you know, frequently will refer to the work as a practice, because, in fact, that's exactly what it is. We're trying every day to get just a little bit better. But your work is so important and resonant, I think, in the sense that you remind us as leaders, all of us, whether we're titled leaders, or acting as leaders, this notion that how you show up really matters, that you are constantly have a contagion effect on others, and you have the potential to be additive or detractive. I think, in your in your language, Renee, you talk about regeneration or extraction, and and it's just such a crystal clear in my mind, way of thinking about, you know, leaders' choices and their opportunities to show up in a certain way that's, yeah, helpful or hurtful to those around them. And I love the fact that you have translated this into, again, a very powerful tool, the Pulse assessment. And I'm curious if you maybe want to talk a little bit more about that, and kind of what you've discovered in administering that to literally tens of thousands of people around the globe, and what they are discovering as a result of that about their leadership. I mean, back to our conversation around love. It's the sense that with that tool, people can understand how they're showing up, how they're doing, so to speak. But I'll leave it to you to tell us more about that.

Renee Moorefield: 13:54

Yeah, well, I love the question. So a couple of things before, or one thing before, I get into the Pulse, the Be Well Lead Well Pulse assessment, one is, you can think of leadership - a stance we take. Someone does not have to be in a management role to be a leader. In fact, I've known very high level executives that have that are just now figuring out that they can use their life energy for for for good and for this sense of really leadership. So leadership, a parent can step into leadership, a friend can step into leadership, a neighbor can step into leadership. It is that commitment we make to use our life energy to create the conditions where others can thrive, including ourselves, where people can thrive, including ourselves. So when you think about that, leadership is not just about the doing done. It's not just about our actions, and it's not just about what we say or what we communicate. It literally is about the being, and those are three levels that we talk about. So. Be, Say and Do. Be Well, Lead Well Pulse is looking at that "being" level. What are those internal resources that when you start to pay attention to more, really support you in showing up in your actions and what you say from a place of deep well being and adaptability and growth. So things like mindfulness, your ability to be self aware, to be present in the moment, without judging it good or bad, right or wrong, to just be fully present. So that's it. That is a capacity to cultivate awe and appreciation is another thing we measure in the tool, the ability to not wait for the world to entertain you, like we do. You know when I know that most of us experience great awe when we travel, you go to another culture, you go to the Grand Canyon, and you're just like, I'm blown away with how incredible this is. But the practice of awe is, how can you show up in your day and bring awe to your life and leadership, not wait for the world to bring it to you? So how can you notice? How can you really appreciate? How can you be in wonder, seeking perspectives that are different than your own? So that's a something that we measure. What we know is when people don't just tolerate diverse opinions, diverse points of view, diverse people, but they seek them that they are more apt to experience deeper level, deeper levels of thriving in their life and work, and they're more apt to amplify cultures where others can thrive. So those are three out of 19 scales that are built in the Be Well, Lead Well Pulse assessment. Some of the things that are built into the assessment are things that you would expect, because there are traditional wellness behaviors. So how you eat, how you move, how you rest, are you breathing? Are you intentionally using your breath? But we don't. We're not prescriptive, because across the world, across cultures, people do those wellness behaviors in different ways. What we do ask is, do you know how to proactively, proactively use how you eat, how you move, how you rest, how you breathe, to help you manage your stress effectively, to help you optimize your performance, to help you manage your energy. So we're again, it's a question of, are you aware that how you have designed your lifestyle and your work style is enabling you or disabling you from thriving in your life and work? Those are other scale, yeah, so it can use, I won't go through every scale, because it's a it's a large assessment. It's interesting when we use it, because we do find some surprises in it. As far as when we use it with leaders across the world, some of the surprises are things like leaders will think of thriving as just sort of a high actualization or high a peak performance in their life. So I was thriving when I was up here right versus when they start to really dive into the assessment. They realize thriving is not just about bringing forward innate capacities that we have, like a sense of wonder. We have that as a child already, but we lose it. So bringing that forward, but it's also a skill we can cultivate. And they don't realize that you can build that skill into your life and work and start to really build that out, just like you would a muscle. And you know, through your daily practices. They also don't realize thriving is so multi dimensional. So most people don't think of awe, for example, as part of their their capacity to thrive, and yet those moments of all that we have in life are so nourishing that they, you know, it really the tool really expands people's thoughts about thriving and all the capacities that make it up.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 19:18

Yeah, wow, so much there that to ask you about the what I just have to comment about the perspective on awe, because I think that is so richly powerful that you you don't have to wait for awe to come to you. You can find awe in this very proactive stance that you have shared with us about how it is we find thriving and this, I'll just say, this notion of our innate capacities, because that's so resonant with our work at VIA in the sense of, you know, we have these 24 character strengths. We have them in a very unique profile, and how we cultivate them as our innate capacities towards the things you're talking about is. Just, it's such a beautiful intersection for me. So thank you. Thank you for sharing that. I want to switch just a little bit from because another just, I know I keep saying this, but so many layers of beauty in your work and this notion of, yes, it is about my personal thriving. But of course, you talk about it as a leader, and the responsibility, the right, the privilege of being able to help other people thrive to the best of your ability by creating these kind of ecosystems. But then you talk about it really, even beyond that, the responsibility for, you know, people, planet, the collective impact of what you're doing. And of course, that's just a powerful stance to take in the world and at the same time, when we know from so much other research the propensity, or the feeling of of overwhelm, and, you know, kind of stress in our workplaces, how do you have the conversation with with leaders, with organizations, about, hey, it's not just about you, your team, your organization, but it's about planet and larger impact and all of those things. How do you have that conversation without overwhelming people?

Renee Moorefield: 21:07

yeah, it can be overwhelming. It can even be overwhelming to me. We have so much change and disruption and kind of complexities in the world. I know many people call it that we're in a poly crisis. And you know, all the different crisis, from the climate crisis to the to the level of division that we have between people. So we have many different crises, health crises around the world and and my sense is that there's even a deeper underlying that shift that we will need to make, and it's one that I'm working on myself, and that is that we see ourselves not as separate. I believe we are still in a mindset of that we are separate, that I'm separate from you, I'm separate from another person, and that our like our nation, is separate from this nation, and our town is separate from this town, and our organization is separate from this organization. We still are in this mindset of separation, that we're even separate from nature. When we feel that disconnection, it is much easier to act in ways that are protective and to... to defend. When we see our interdependence and the fundamental connection that we have, it's much harder to do that. We start to become more compassionate, we start to become more collaborative, we start to see that we are really in this together. So that was a long winded way to say when we're working with an organization. At first, to be honest with some organizations, when we talk with the leadership team and kind of assess the this the the level of internal resourcefulness that they are feeling, if they are feeling disengaged, disenchanted, burnt out, overwhelmed, we're probably not going to have a conversation about about the planet, because that's going to add to the overwhelm. So it's also knowing, knowing who, what organization are we working with and, and really and, and honoring where they are. So with that kind of organization that is feeling so low in their sense of resourcefulness, and when we use our assessment, we can actually tell, because it gives us the measurements, if that's where they are, then we say, okay, what are some of the first steps we could take? What are the first steps you are willing to take? You're ready to take, to support your sense of inner resourcefulness, as well as you together. What I know is, when any of us are not feeling well resourced, we have a harder - imagine if you're not feeling well resourced, you are. You are reporting that you feel exhausted, that you feel disengaged, that you feel overwhelmed, your higher order thinking skills about the world are not going to come from there, yeah, there, that they don't come from there, that what? What comes from that sense of depletion is more. Can I just get through the day? Can we just react to the next thing that's coming up? Can we just fix this problem? That's the kind of thinking that comes from that. So it's so critical to start with, what can you do yourself as a leader, and what as a team? What can we do together? What I can say, and what gives me a lot of hope is I know that that's possible. I've seen so many dramatic and transformational changes when people get on this kind of journey and they start to pay attention, and then they can open up to. So wait a minute, how is our company? How are we being extractive on the planet? How could we be an agent of change? How can we be a force for good? Then they can start thinking about those in a way, more intentional and strategic way,

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 25:17

yeah, oh my gosh, it's so powerful. I mean, when we think about, you know, thriving or wellbeing, and we know that there's some commonalities, the research suggests to us that there are things that are important, actually for all of us, but also this notion that it is deeply personal, whether it's based on our strengths profile or other things, there is a deeply personal element to it. And one of the things I so appreciate about your work is this ability to be very specific, very personalized, because of the rigor of your assessments and how you can help people understand you know where they are and what they might need in terms of what it would look like to thrive. I'm just I'm so delighted by your work, and so love the idea that you have prioritized thriving as for the last 30 years, truly making it the standard of success. I mean, that's something that we can all aspire to. I think Renee and I'm curious as we begin to close our conversation of all the things we've discussed, and really all the many more things in your mind and work and heart that we haven't discussed. If you are going to leave our listeners with just one takeaway, one thing that they might remember or act or do you know? What would you what would you encourage for us?

Renee Moorefield: 26:41

Yeah, you know, when you asked me to be a part of this and you sent me a few questions, I really thought about this question in particular, because it's an important one. They're all important. But this one was really specific. Thriving is not a "nice to have." It's not a"nice to have." We are at a place in our in our history of the planet and of our human history, that we have a degree of complexity, that if we're not paying attention to our capacity to thrive, we're not going to show up well for all those complexities and figure out how to sort those out together. So so many people, I think, have a very idealistic, or maybe romantic is a better word notion of, can we just go back to a simpler past when things life felt easier? And my sense is there is nothing in how our world has progressed, that would tell us that that's going to happen. There's nothing that would tell us in the arc of human history, the evolution of complexity. Things get more complex because we've made them that way. This complexity comes out of our world views, and so we have created more complexity. What we haven't done is said, how do we really cultivate ourselves as human beings to respond to and evolve with the complexities? And that's what so thriving is not a "nice to have" anymore. It's not enough to say, you know, when my kids go off to college, I will finally start taking care of myself, when, when I'm finally retired, I will finally, you know, worry on work, on my health, it's we cannot do that anymore. We're at a place where you're very thriving is what enables you to live and lead in such a way that supports you to be well resourced with all the complexities and demands, and to grow with those complexities and demands. Grow with and through those complexities and demands, because we need for some of our biggest complexities and challenges in the world. We need some big innovation. We need big thinking. We need, as you mentioned, big hearts. We need people who are thinking for the whole not just thinking for themselves. And so this is for me personally. This is about the evolution of a different way of leading in the world, a different kind of leadership in the world, fundamentally. Thriving is just the foundation of that, right?

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 29:29

Just beautifully said, beautifully said, Well, I knew it would be a joy to speak to you. I knew I would learn a lot, even in the brief conversation and time we've had together. So I am certainly overjoyed to have done so. Thank you so much for joining us today. Renee, deeply appreciate your wisdom here.

Renee Moorefield: 29:49

Well, thank you for the invitation. I love what the podcast is all about, and even more than that, I love what you're doing in the world. I love all the work that you know, that you're advancing in the world. It really matters. It's. And I love that we have. It's like, I think of almost points of light these people around the world that really are have their arms around the world saying, we want this to be a planet that works for everybody, and you're one of the people. So thank you.

Dr. Jillian Coppley: 30:14

Thank you, and thank you to all of our listeners who have joined us today. Keep standing up strong, showing up and looking for the very best in yourself and one another, and that's how we'll make the world a better place.

Jackie Congedo: 30:26

Standing Up Strong is a production of the Nancy & David Wolf Holocaust & Humanity Center in partnership with the VIA Institute on Character. Find the link in the show notes to take a character strengths survey for free. Managing Producer is Anne Thompson. Technical Producer is Robert Mills and Technical Director is Josh Emerson. This series is part of the Cynthia & Harold Guttman Family Center for Storytelling and is generously supported by the Mayerson Family Foundation. It is recorded at Technical Consulting Partners studios in Cincinnati, Ohio.