Cultivating Cultural Responsiveness and Inclusion

This episode explores what cultural responsiveness looks like in practice. Guests share approaches for recognising and celebrating cultural identity, building staff capability, and ensuring all students feel respected and included. You will hear practical ideas for classrooms, staffrooms, and family engagement, plus ways to track impact over time.

Guest: Dr Beau Hu-Jia, National School Partnerships Manager, Together for Humanity and Simangaliso Nyoni, Cultural Practice Lead, MacKillop Family Services
Produced by: The MacKillop Institute

Suggested chapter markers
 00:00 Why cultural responsiveness, the case for change
 03:55 Identity, belonging, and classroom practice
 09:40 Staff capability, language, and reflective tools
 15:25 Family partnerships and community voices
 21:00 Reducing bias, nudges that work in schools
 26:15 Monitoring progress, what to measure
 29:20 First steps for your improvement plan

If themes in this episode affect you, support is available in Australia
Griefline 1300 845 745, Beyond Blue 1300 22 4636, Lifeline 13 11 14.

Transcript

MacKillop Institute: 0:00

That's TMI, the Meaningful Insights Podcast, delving into the heart of human-centered professions. That's TMI, is recorded on the lands of the Kulin Nation. We pay our respects to all the traditional custodians of the lands on which you are joining from today. Welcome to everyone from all of the places that you're joining us. We are going to be talking about cultivating cultural responsiveness, belonging, and inclusion for young people. I'm going to be your host for today. My name is Smeeter Singh. I'm the National Programs Director for the Power to Kids and Power to Kids in Schools program at the McKillop Institute. We're joined today by Dr. Bo Who, National Program Partnership Manager from Together for Humanity, and Samana Liso Noni, National Cultural Practice Lead at McKillop Family Services. Knowing personally the wealth of experience that our guests bring, I am particularly excited to be delving into today's topic. It seems very topical in our current world and local events, particularly around setting the scene for the generation I think to come, our future, our young people. I think we certainly see when we talk about culture, belonging and inclusion, that when we are our authentic and whole selves, culture can be a really significant driver in a young person's engagement in positive and safe education, their relationships, their community. And I think we even see it in the way that young people connect with hope, aspiration, and motivation. But before I kick into the exciting discussion, let's of course acknowledge the lands on which we're all joining today. I'm coming to you from Bunneron lands of the Kulin Nation, and I'm paying my respect to the elders, past, present, and leaders emerging. I want to acknowledge the grief and loss of our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, particularly thinking of the harm that has been caused by invasion and colonization over the last 200 years, resulting in historical, cultural, and intergenerational trauma. We recognize that these lands have been the lands of learning and teaching since the beginning of time. We stand with Aboriginal and Torre Freight Islander people in solidarity now and always. So without further ado, let me please introduce our first guest speaker, Dr. Bo Who. He is the National Program's Partnership Manager at Together for Humanity. His career has centered on fostering partnerships to combat racism, prejudice, and to build a more inclusive society. By connecting educational institutions and communities with Doctor Who works with schools across Australia to build intercultural understanding in his role with Together for Humanity. Thank you so much, Doctor Who, for joining us.

Dr Beau Hu-Jia: 3:09

Thank you for having me. Hello, everyone. Nice to see you all. I can't see you, but it's so lovely to be here.

MacKillop Institute: 3:17

It is so lovely to have you. And we have Samonga Liso Noni on the line. She is the National Cultural Practice Lead at McKillop Family Services. Samonga Liso is a social worker and counsellor with over 16 years of experience in her current work as a national cultural practice lead. She has a focus on multicultural communities and she works on creating and implementing best practice in embedding culture and culturally responsive practice in the work that we do at McKillop Family Services. Samanda Liso holds a Bachelor of Social Work and a Masters of Counseling, another great wealth of experience. Thank you so much, Samanda Liso, for joining us.

Simangaliso Nyoni: 3:59

Thank you for having me for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

MacKillop Institute: 4:03

Look, to kick us off, we're going to start with just a little bit of an introductory kind of question to ease you in, Bo and Samanda Liso. Why don't we start with you, Bo? We'd love to hear a little bit about your work, what it is that you do, and why you do it.

Dr Beau Hu-Jia: 4:20

Thank you, Sumita. As you just mentioned, I work for an organization, a non-for-profit organization called Together for Humanity. And we work with schools to run workshops. So our organization, Australia, where racism and prejudice have been eliminated, and every young person feels that they truly belong. That's what we do. And we run teachers' professional development workshops as well. And so what inspires me to do my job is really about the powerful impact of understanding and collaboration. When people such as students, teachers, community members work together, overcome stereotypes, and discover common ground. We can really grow together despite the differences linguistically, culturally, or religiously.

MacKillop Institute: 5:17

I love it. What a beautiful start. And Samanga Lisa, what about yourself? What is it that you do and why do you do it?

Simangaliso Nyoni: 5:24

Thank you, Smeeda, for that beautiful introduction. So I am currently the national cultural practice lead at my Cillob. So I've been at my Cillip for about two and a half years. But why do I do it? I feel like social work or counseling actually chose me. I think I had a really deeper passion for really sitting with people when they've experienced the most harshest of experiences and just to be a person to observe and witness their journey, really. And I think over the years, the more I've been in Australia, having come to Australia as an international student, I really started to realize what it was for me and what it took for me to integrate into Australian life and the challenges that I faced, the curiosities and the questions that I had. And I think the more that happened, the more I also started to look at services, which include education, by the way, and started to realize that what else needs to be done in those spaces so that the services, our education system is fit for purpose for people like me, because I had done my primary school and high school, not in Australia. So I was thrust into this way of learning. And I just didn't have the tools that I needed to have. But I think with time and education and being here for 20 years, that's really why I want someone's journey to be a little more complex than mine was. And that's why I do what I do. I show up so that people can be liberated, so that places have a change culture, so that we use words like we welcome, we accept people, not like we welcome that people are othered. So I really want to be the change that I want to see. And that also starts with the language that we use. So I'm a massive reframer. I reframe my own sentences sometimes, and I do that with friends and colleagues. So that's why I get up and show up and go, what is it that I can do today to actually liberate someone or to make someone included in whatever aspect of their life? So important.

MacKillop Institute: 7:21

And it makes me think we've already started to talk about some of the complexity in the work, the layers to the work, and we're going to dig a little bit deeper into that. But just to start to lay the land, is there anything in your work currently that really sparks joy for you, but equally causes you despairing in this space at the moment? Samangalisa, why don't we start with you?

Simangaliso Nyoni: 7:47

All right. Okay. What causes me joy? I think what it causes me joy is when I hear someone saying, I feel just those words, I feel thin is what causes me joy. But I think in the context of young people, it's seeing them being quite steeped in their culture, very connected, and actually feeling that they're really proud of where they've come from, that cultural identity and connection and who they are, and going, I am connected to culture. And this is what it looks like. Even though I was born in Australia, I come from a multicultural background, but I feel seen. I feel like I belong also. A sense of belonging is quite crucial in terms of my job. And I would say that's the essence or the foundation of what I want to see for young people, feeling very connected, feeling very seen, feeling like they can have dreams that can be realized. No dream is bigger than your skin color or your journey or your migration, whatever it is. So I think that's what sparks joy in me. The despair, unfortunately, I'm gonna call it out now because I hear this quite often, is the need for us to really drill down and explore and inquire around the unconscious bias that I've seen in so many spaces and the systemic racism that's very prevalent in most cases that I get pulled in, where a certain young person is described in a certain way and without anyone inquiring why that young person is described that way. Or shining light on that piece of work is really important for everyone to question our own unconscious bias, but also a cultural humility, which we'll talk about a bit later. So I think that's what causes me despair, that I get into spaces rather than injecting that cultural responsive practice. I'm constantly doing the advocacy of going. But what else? What else needs to be done in the spaces? So that's what causes me despair. But that's what also ignites the fire in me of going, I'm actually in the right place.

MacKillop Institute: 9:39

Yeah, you're doing the good work. And Bo, what about for yourself? Anything in that resonate with you or anything else that you're feeling at the moment?

Dr Beau Hu-Jia: 9:48

Absolutely. As I mentioned, we work with students and teachers. And I think what brings me joy is hearing from students after our programs, especially when they say, you made us feel like we belong. And particularly for students uh from diverse backgrounds. Right now, Australia is changing. Our students have very rich uh linguistic and cultural uh backgrounds and also faith backgrounds. And so that's why when we work in our programs, it's not just about delivering a program, it's about creating a space where students feel heard, respected, and valued for who they are. Particularly, schools are based on so many rules, and we are not teachers. When we go to the classroom as facilitator, we really want to give the power back to students they normally would have in a school setting. What causes me distress? As I mentioned, our work is about anti-racism and anti-prejudice. That means we still have a societal challenge, which is the persistence of racism and discrimination. Everything is played out not only between students in the playground or classroom, but also within the interactions between students and teachers and even colleagues. Particularly these days, we all want to create a safe school environment, inclusive environment where multicultural Australia, everyone's diversity is celebrated at a national level, in practice, in the classrooms and the playgrounds. Unfortunately, racism and prejudice happen. And students from particularly intersectional diverse backgrounds dealing with this challenge on a daily basis.

MacKillop Institute: 11:58

Absolutely. And I think it's a really interesting way to start this conversation because I feel like we've got this wonderful group of people online, likely to be from a range of different professions working with young people who I'm sure I could absolutely with confidence say that everyone here online really wants to be making a difference in this space. This is obviously why we're all here having this conversation. But I think before we get into the how, before we can really get into the strategies, it's important to spend a little bit of time unpacking why it is so hard. Because this is not new work. Racism and structural racism is embedded in quite a lot of our history here in Australia. So wanting to talk through with you both a little bit of your sense of what do you see as the current context and reality of cultural diversity, inclusion, and belonging at the moment in Australia, right now. Samanga Liso, can I start with you?

Simangaliso Nyoni: 13:05

Oh, that is a big question, right? I'll I'll try it's a big question because I think it depends on the context, right? But having said that, our context and the reality of it is Australia as it is. Like it's multicultural. And multiculturalism is actually not new. If you really think about it, if you think about even pre-colonial and stuff that was happening, there's always multiculturalism. And then I think we have to now contend with the fact of what's happened in our DNA, having had colonization and the impacts of colonization. And I think this is where it's really important for us to change the landscape, is we have to do some truth-telling really about the reality and uh the legacy that colonization has had to where we are now, where, for lack of a better word, if we look at some of even Scanland Foundation has done statistics around this and it says overwhelmingly Australians want social cohesion. They think multiculturalism is a really good thing, right? That's what the statistics tell us in the data. And then I go into spaces constantly and going, but why isn't our stats reflective of what's happening? And I think that the thing that I can reflect back on is I think on paper we really want to see the change. But I think we're also grappling with the parallel to that, which is for a very long time we're holding on to, we want something that looks Western Anglo to be what we are really tied into, right? Unless we loosen our grip on that, therefore we'll always have multiculturalism othered. And I think it's really important for us to change the language in schools, in society, in media, to be inclusive. When we talk about multiculturalism and other people, it can't be deficit-based. It can be even if we think about the world cold, culturally and linguistically diverse. And for a time, that's a word that we used. We had a time and a place for it because we're moving away from non-English speaking, which was also seen as very othering, right? Now we are with multiculturalism because cold was seen as kind of deficit-based and very othering, right? So I think the landscape is really changing. On a positive note, though, I do see our younger people, our youth, really speaking up and educating themselves and really quite steeped and very grounded in their cultural identity. So that's where we are. So, in as much as I look at multiculturalism and some of the things that we still have a long way to go, there is a flip side, though, of I can see things really changing from when I first came into Australia 20 years ago. The landscape looks so different. Now, I was very determined to integrate into Australia, which meant there's parts of me that were like, I'm I want to denounce my Africanness because I want to fit into Australia with what I know now and how things are now, I would redo some of those things. But I know better now. I think that's how best I can answer that question. It's a big question. But yeah, we could spend the whole day.

MacKillop Institute: 16:00

I know, I know. We could spend all day just on that question. And what I really heard, a resounding theme in your answer, Samana Liso, was just the evolving nature of this space. As we're learning our strategies, as we're learning to step into this space, just as fast as we're learning it, it might be potentially changing. And our role to continuously lean in and step in is part of the challenge in the context that we have. Thank you. Oh, what about for yourself? And you're obviously working in schools, you're seeing this in a number of contexts. What is it looking like to you?

Dr Beau Hu-Jia: 16:37

Thank you, Samita. And I actually thought a lot when uh Sim Angli, because I was talking about we have the term of students from linguistic and cultural background, but have so many acronyms, right? And these days, unfortunately, having those labels, we put people in boxes. And we I'm just trying to find a way how we can navigate this space. On the one hand, we want to highlight the diversity of students, particularly, as I mentioned, those intersectionality and on that wheel of power. On the other hand, I'm just thinking how we can break down those labels without reinforcing stereotypes and assumptions. I think that's something, that's just some food for thought, and I don't have an answer yet. Because we need to be quite specific about the kind of students or schools or families we want to engage with. And back to your questions, Mita, why this is so hard and why we still have racism. Whereas most Australians have very diverse backgrounds. Unless you are a First Nations person and you are from somewhere else. Let's go back to the history. I think we can't talk about now without reflecting on what's happened in the past. Up till the late 70s, this country was shaped by the white Australian policy. And so this policy really restricted migration to mostly European backgrounds. And if we look at European backgrounds migrant, also there's a hierarchy, and the people from south of England were prioritized and then moved to the North Europe and then South Europe and later on Eastern Europe. And it's not till in the 70s and the doors open up to people from Asia. And policy can be changed overnight. But people's mindset takes, I would say, takes generations of hard work to shift. And as much as we want to be inclusive, we have our biases and assumptions and the cultures that are deeply embedded in us. So here they are mainstream Anglo-Australians. And so let me make it clear. And so today, if you look at our classrooms, and nearly 50% of students' parents, at least one parent, were born overseas. Our classrooms really reflect this diversity. And so about 22% of our school students speak language other than English at home. And over 5% identify as Aboriginal and Tall Strait Islander. And I was just thinking, just mentioned, the world has always been diverse. And we used to have more than 200 Aboriginal languages, and now we only have a handful of languages that are actively used between generations. And so actually, we are killing diversity, right? And so this is just making me think it's it's a really tough and messy space when we're trying to shift that culture. And particularly when there's another layer of that story, is that power uh dynamic. And so such as different multiple aspects of people's identity, ethnicity, gender, socioeconomic status, religion, and also status. And we recently went to a workshop and we talked to some students. And if you look at them, you thought they're from very privileged background. But we saw this UNI Australian girl, and she has to look after two disabled younger brothers, and termly you, mother, and think about that stress. So that's all happened in the classroom. So back to the question, why it's hard, because it's messy. And really need to uh take, let's say, case-by-case approach, as what um the McAlloph Institute um always do. And when we have a family and a child in front of us, we really need to look at them just for themselves and not just to try and think, oh, you belong to this category. And yeah, I hope I answer your questions.

MacKillop Institute: 21:36

Oh, look, absolutely, you've already raised so many different avenues that we could really go down. And I've reflecting as you're talking around the complexity for us as professionals in this space, because what I'm really hearing from both yourself and Samonga Liso is we're all managing our own identities. For many of us, we might be managing our own diverse identities, and then we're in a position where we're supporting young people to manage theirs. And you've got two working in parallel together. And then, as you say, Bo, we're looking at the intersectionality of that all and the diversity of experience and background that comes with all of that. So it does, it becomes messy. And the idea of a kind of clean cut, you can do this in any given situation, it just doesn't apply. There's just so much gray and movement and color in this space. Excuse the pun. You're gonna hear lots of puns from me today. No, I'm joking. But I think it's important when we talk about what I think you've both laid out there the complexity of the landscape and our kind of place to step into this work. But for many of us, if we don't, I think naturally understand or come from diverse experiences, it can be hard to conceptualize the why. Why is this so important? Why is this so critical now? So can I ask you both, maybe just to briefly touch on why in your work is it essential to focus on cultural safety, responsiveness, identity, and belonging? Bo, can I go to you first this time?

Dr Beau Hu-Jia: 23:19

Of course. As I mentioned, policy can be changed overnight, school policy can be changed overnight, and classroom policy can be changed overnight. One of things cannot be changed overnight is culture. That's why we need to focus on culture development to really foster that culture of um inclusion and belonging. But it's not an easy work. And we should only focus on culture that can have a really sustainable impact and ongoing impact on our students.

MacKillop Institute: 23:56

And Samangalisa, anything that you'd add in in your work or your spaces?

Simangaliso Nyoni: 24:01

Gosh, where do I start? I think it's really important for where we are now, outcenter young people, because I think most of my work is with young people. And because it has such an impact on the trajectory of their life, right? And if I put it in a setting in terms of the education system as well, young people spend a lot of their time at school, at school term. And that's where really you get to get their sense of identity and belonging is actually cultivated in a school setting, right? So it's important that the school settings or the services that they're accessing actually sees them for who they are and is culturally safe and it's mirrored back to them, right? I often say what's so important, even in the out-of-home care space that I'm in when we do talk about cultural safety. And I always say if you do ask the right questions and if you do consult in the true sense of consulting, young people actually do know what they actually need to be culturally safe. And I think that's our starting point. We can have ideas of why cultural safety might look like for a young person, but unless we actually ask the right the right questions, edge appropriate, we won't know the answers. We will just be doing what we've read on a textbook and trying to implement it to a young person who's going, but that's actually not what's important to me. What's important to me to feel culturally safe is that I don't get to sit by myself during a lunch break because my friends won't come to me, right? What does that say for us? Then it leaves us with homework and saying, what is it that we need to be embedding in our curriculum? Do you understand there are probably educators and teachers here that's saying the curriculum is already overloaded, but how else can we find ways to have that inclusion and that diversity celebrated in our curriculum so that we do have young people that are not feeling othered in a school setting? And therefore we have lesser academic success for them. And lesser academic success means therefore we find certain cultures being stereotyped into certain jobs, right? That is an economic um impact on that. So you can actually see that the work that we can do now when young people are very young is quite crucial to the trajectory of their life. But it's also crucial to what we then get to see overall in society, right? It starts very young. It doesn't start when someone is an adult, it starts when they are very young. So I think it's actually really, it's really important. And it's everyone's responsibility to ensure that we're cultivating with that in all the spaces that we do occupy, cultural safety at the core of it, intersectional practice at the core of it, even in schools. What else are you missing out on? Right? Examples of young people being labeled, they're being naughty because they're from a multicultural background. But if a young person is from like a Western or dominant race, you hear, oh, they probably need an assessment. Maybe something cognitive is happening. I'm like, why wasn't that the first point for you for that young person? Or why didn't you maybe employ a trauma or culturally informed practice to that young person before you label them? So we've got a you've got some work to do, but very important to really center cultural safety.

MacKillop Institute: 27:11

So from that, what I'm really hearing is there's a real imperative just in terms of the nature of schools stepping into this space just purely because of the access to young people, the impact to young people, and then how that will I really loved the wording that you used, Bo, around culture development. That actually, as educators, as professionals in this space, we're actually what a responsibility to hold that we are potentially developing the cultures of young people who have cultures different from our own. And how do we step into those spaces? And it sounded like, Simon Lisa, you were talking about really having to conceptualize how we embed this through all aspects of the work, that it's both in our curriculum, in our practice, in our own education and awareness, in the way that we build relationships between young people and their families. So it's a big job. It's certainly not a kickbox solution, is what I'm really hearing from this.

Dr Beau Hu-Jia: 28:16

I just want to elaborate on what does cultural safety mean in the school setting. I would say cultural safety, it means students can bring their whole cultural self in the classroom, where it's a very formal setting for a young person. Their cultural being are acknowledged in the school setting. For example, if they're allowed or if encouraged to speak their first language, and in the situation where they can use their home language and can really help students to recognize the value of their heritage. And so that can really help students form a strong ties to their own cultural identities. And broadly, it's going to have a significant benefit for social cohesion. And it creates this very positive ripple effects on students' mental health. They're not ashamed of who they are and which language they speak or which ethnicity they were born into, and also on the sense of self and self-esteem, and strengthen their connections with their families and communities. Because that culture, that let's say home culture, is recognized in a formal setting, such as in a classroom or school, they'll feel more connected with their family and their own community. And so at the societal level, and it creates a very positive uh impact. I think that's when we talk about social cohesion. What does that mean? I think. This is one of the um examples. Yeah, how we can create social cohesion by allowing students to be their wholesome self culturally in the classroom.

MacKillop Institute: 30:12

And just to expand, I think, on that, and this is probably a question to both of you. Both of you have started to touch on this idea in some of your previous responses, but it seems so pertinent now around the idea of a power imbalance in these spaces, that us as adults, you know, supporting young people, whether you're an educator, whether you're a professional in another space. Can you expand on that a little bit? What does that mean and what does that look like in terms of practice? Who wants to take it first?

Simangaliso Nyoni: 30:46

I I probably will go with uh because my answers probably get a bit sharp, like short and sharp. When I think of power imbalances, I employ people to actually recognize the privilege that they have. And there's many forms of privilege, right? Unless you recognize the privilege that you do hold in certain positions that you have, you will step into spaces with a whole lot of privilege that then diminishes the other person, right? So we all have different kinds of privilege. I have some privilege in certain spaces that I go being an educated woman, but in some spaces, I don't have that privilege because I show up and someone looks at me and goes, she's black, she's African, she's probably uneducated. What is she going to say? So I think when I think of power imbalances, it's recognizing your privilege. And this is not to say privilege isn't demonize privilege. I think it's how you use it and how you then situate yourself in things, how you then speak to people, recognizing the the privilege that you what are you doing intentionally to really reduce the power that you have when you do speak to a student, when you do speak to a parent who might say to you, my English is not my second language, but I want to understand my child's educational journey. Are you also going, that's really important for you? And you're taking time in a very busy teachers are busy, educators are busy, but are you taking time to say, I'm gonna arrange an interpreter and I'm gonna make sure that you do actually understand what's happening for your child because you are as important as the other parent who speaks English, you are as important in understanding that, right? Um, and also it's in the languaging there of going, of not saying there's a language barrier because you can't speak English. And usually my comeback to that is going, there's it's all uh clearly a language barrier because you also can't speak Shona, because I speak Shona. Therefore, it's not whose barrier is it? Who are we centering as the person who's being a challenge? It means that we're saying to parents, why do you not speak English? So there's a barrier there, right? It's also within the way we approach teaching as well, recognizing the different learning needs that our young people have, but also the resources that we use in classes. Uh, I grew up in Zimbabwe where it was still, there was the legacy of colonization. And with that legacy of colonization, all our books had white faces. So, what did it say? It reinforced every day I opened a book at school, it reinforced the idea that I was lesser than a white person, unintentionally, but that's what I was absorbing all the time, right? So we need to see differences as well in schools, right? That's how you're gonna break some of those power imbalances of going, I can be anything because I see someone who looks like me on the board. I see someone who looks like me in the book that I'm reading, right? Um we could go on all day. I'll pass it to Bo.

MacKillop Institute: 33:34

A lot really moved by that. Bo, is there anything that you'd add to that?

Dr Beau Hu-Jia: 33:38

Yeah, I echo what uh Simon Glissot mentioned, that situational nature of privilege. We might hold more power in one situation, but not in another situation. And I think as educator, as a I would say modern human being, we should be aware of all the um privilege we have. And privilege is not a bad thing. This morning I was talking with another colleague and he saw this lecture, a white lady talking about white fragility, and he's very impressed with the depth of her teaching. And so he said, that's why we can't really simply rely on people of or marginalized groups to do equity and inclusion work. We need allies who hold more power to work with us, to stand with us, to fight for us. And yeah, I think that's why it's a collective white privilege, it can be used very productively. And yeah, so I work with all of you guys and plus Chris Higgins. Chris is in the background doing all the tech support. But over the years we've been working closely and support each other. And he's an ally for diversity and inclusion work. And so I think people just need to sometimes create that safe space for people to say those things out loud. You have the privilege, that's fine. Can you help me with something? Because I don't have that power. And another very practical example, let's say in our schools, and let's say a student often provide translation or interpreting services to their peers or their parents. And in social linguistics, I think there's a term called child brokering. Yeah, because it's in the middle. And so young person, although they don't have much power, but in that particular situation, their linguistic competence is power. And I think we should really use just trying to be open-minded and take a step back and to learn from everyone. There's always something we can learn, yeah, even from a young person.

MacKillop Institute: 36:04

So many fantastic learnings to take away from that alone. I'm already thinking, what a great reflection point for us all to walk away from today to be able to say, how can we be allies of power? And what is our power? Because all of our power looks different, and how are we going to bring that into the work? Already a spot of inspiration to bring us through. So, look, let's move into some really clear, I think, practical strategies. Because I think it's we've been talking about some of the conceptualization, the importance of it, but it's really important that we're able to walk away and think this is what I can actually do. This is some steps that I can take. And so, Samangalito, if I can start with you, what are some strategies that you would recommend to build cultural safety and cultural humility in the environment working with young people?

Simangaliso Nyoni: 36:54

A starting point is all that work starts from here. It starts internally. So I think it's about if we are to change culture for culture, it has to start from us, which is really succinctly described in terms of cultural humility being an ongoing process of self-critiquing and reflection. And that's really key as well, going back to even what Bo was talking about around names and labeling and wanting to have different acronyms for things and what is it that could make us on an even ground, right? Is everyone, including people that are from a dominant culture, for lack of a better word, is they have to be labels as well. I go into spaces and when I do some of my workshops, I do ask everyone to introduce themselves with culture in mind. And I always preface it by saying, just because you're Australian, white Australian, doesn't mean you don't have a culture. So tell me. And you find people most of the time saying, but I don't really have a culture. My culture is boring. I'm like, that's your homework though. Reframe that. Because the minute you say my culture is, you're already saying you're other as well. So it's how do we also ask people from the dominant race to also embrace their culture without comparing it to, so that we're on an even ground. So when you do come to me, you will ask me questions that are very well considered, which is, I'd rather have someone ask me what my cultural or ethnic background is compared to where are you from? There's horrible SBS series at one point that says go back to where you came from. So I react really strongly to the where are you from? I'm like, what do you actually mean? But in terms of, I guess, strategies, I think I would say educate, everyone needs to educate themselves, right? We need to have cultural awareness being mandatory for anyone in so many spaces. And we can't talk about multiculturalism without embedding First Nations. So cultural awareness being key and then extending to any cultural responsive training and ensuring that work is done by everyone. Even as a person from multicultural background, I have a responsibility to continue to educate myself and to better myself and to see where some of my colonial mindset is and to unpack that and unlearn that. So what that's what I would say. And curiosity, curiosity is key. Before you come to the conclusion, are you quite curious? Start looking at your environment, start looking at the way you grade your students as well. Is there an unconscious bias that's there? Or in the way you think about them or talk about them, right? That's what cultural safety is about as well and much more. Don't just practice cultural safety in the classroom. Practice it beyond. Let it be part of your default. Practice beyond the classroom, you know, and that's what's going to create change for everyone.

MacKillop Institute: 39:40

Among Lisa, can I ask you to touch on sometimes young people, they themselves might not be, they might not know their culture, they might not be connected to their culture. What are kind of strategies that you've used or you've seen work well that might help to bridge some of that work if that's what the young person wants?

Simangaliso Nyoni: 40:01

There will be someone somewhere. So I think it's about us again going, this is important for this young person, right? Whether they want to be connected to that culture or not, but just the knowledge of when they want to pick it up. Because a lot of the times when you're saying no to your culture, there's a part of you that you're muting, right? And we need to be inquire, why are you muting that part of you? What hurt or what pain has that caused you, right? Rather than going they don't want to, therefore we close the case. I'll be like, I'm really curious, what do they actually know? We have young people that say I don't want to have anything to do with culture because they've experienced either violence or they've watched the social media and the media painting people that come from their culture in a certain light. And I'm going, unless I have that conversation and actually educate that young person, we're gonna have a young person who's so confused about their identity, and then it filters to the emotional and mental uh well-being. So it's a lot of going, who else knows the information? Don't just take first word, just go, now I've got a homework. I need to actually truly find out where everything, where the source of it is coming from.

MacKillop Institute: 41:05

Doctor, who, especially because you're in clock classrooms across the country, what are some of the kind of key strategies that you see really working well to build that kind of school-wide culture of inclusion?

Dr Beau Hu-Jia: 41:17

Absolutely. I think practice culture city in a school setting is to practice culturally responsive teaching strategies. I have three strategies broadly. The first one is to recognize and to celebrate cultural differences. As Meng Lizo just mentioned, some students probably don't want to share about their cultural background, right? Because of their identity. Challenging identity is a lifelong journey. And so I think we think this first strategy, the first step is to research about your students, their background, and create a safe space for them to share with you about their stories. Once you find out cultural backgrounds, integrate that in your teaching practice, let's say finding teaching materials that reflect that culture, or not just Anglo-Australian materials, right? And another one is to celebrate. But celebrate here, I propose the idea of celebrate plus. If we simply celebrate diversity by putting on a food festival or every dress-up during their day, without having those hard conversations that discussing about challenges with diversity, we are not doing productive work. Another way to recognize and celebrate cultural differences is through visual representation, multilingual signage, and stuff like that. The second strategy is to involve students in decision-making processes. Schools are based on so many rules. Have we actually included students in the decision-making process? And the third one is to use inclusive language because different cultures would have very different ways of addressing people. Like in the Chinese culture, you never address teachers by their name. You always say, let's say, teacher smita. They always have the literally have the word teacher there. And in in terms of inclusive language and also pronouns and names, also part of that, because different cultures would have a different uh naming practice. And I think as a teacher, sometimes it's very hard for you to pronounce students' name correctly and ask students how to how they pronounce their name. Okay. And the second one in this category is to avoid assumptions instead of saying, oh, how did you celebrate Chinese New Year? Oh, so I'm actually not Chinese, I'm from another country. And and uh and the last one is uh culturally uh sensitive communication. And because Australian is so liberal and when we discuss about certain topics, and teachers just think, oh, you are in Australia and you should be taught in the Australian way. And so if that is the approach, and most likely some students or some your families would have some resistance. And leading up to discussions around the sensitive topics, and I think pre-discussion dialogue is important. All right, I think that's all from the meetup.

MacKillop Institute: 44:24

Paul, Dr. Ruhats to dash, but we're gonna stay on the line to just do some and wrapping up. But thank you so much, Bo, for joining us and for those incredible insights. Thank you so much.

Dr Beau Hu-Jia: 44:34

Thank you so much, everyone.

MacKillop Institute: 44:35

And some manga-lisa, if I can ask this one of you, how do you think organizations can balance being curious and inquisitive about learning from culturally diverse people with making sure that they don't overburden their culturally diverse staff and participants? And this is definitely something I think we we hear a lot in terms of concern. Really interested for your thoughts.

Simangaliso Nyoni: 44:57

Yeah, that's a really great question. And I think part of our strategies, whether it's from a kind of a First Nations or from a multicultural background, is just ensuring that we being mindful of cultural burden. But how do we do that? I think in the curiosity question is I always say to people, are you being curious or are you interrogating someone? Are you asking of someone so much that it's taking away from them? Or is that curiosity from a conversational, not a I'm gonna extract things from you? And I think organizationally, therefore, we have to invest in things like cultural awareness, make them mandatory, have managers and leaders, making sure that they're on people's backs around not attending those, because some of those, as in as much, I know some of the trainings are very general, but they give you a foundation, right? They give you a foundation of kind of knowledge about different cultures as well. So I think it's important for us to make that mandatory in all organizations, but um and at every level as well. Let's embed it in everything that we do, whether it's uh supervision, uh, whether it's uh e-learning competency, let's not just have a once-off cultural awareness uh training. Let's have those reviewed all the time. Let's have people coming in and speaking to us. Um, but also let's also recognize the unique skills of people that have lived experience monetary, right? A lot of the times it's not. It's not recognized. Lived experience of being from a diverse background is not actually recognized as um something that adds to the organization, but yet it's draw, like people drawn on from that. I run a cultural mentoring program, and I know that sometimes I have some of my mentors being asked to get into spaces where they already have a pre-existing role, but they get asked to be in other spaces as well, unpaid and unrecognized. And I just don't believe that is fair. So that's kind of the shorter answer to that question.

MacKillop Institute: 46:51

I feel like this has been a little bit of a really fast-paced, moving conversation on really big, like hard topics. And I really just want to call out for our audience that these are topics that require ongoing conversation. And I really am just so grateful to all of you online for leaning into this space. It's uncomfortable at times and it can test us and it can be confusing and messy, I think, as we've seen in the conversation, but it's just so important. I think what we've also really heard today has been the imperative that we have in these spaces. I suppose for myself, in terms of really what I've taken out of the session and some of those kind of core themes, was I think we started out talking about how we can help our young people be seen and be proud and connected to culture. But we also really started unpacking the impact of unconscious bias and perhaps historical racism and how those mindsets present themselves in the classroom or in our workplaces and how complex it makes the space as we're all trying to navigate our own journey as we're also supporting young people in this. I was really taken by some of the really kind of key phrases that uh both of you were using around labels and how often we use acronyms. And I really took away that labels put people in boxes. And I just thought that was such a powerful phrase to take away that as something really small and concrete that we can move from, it's actually thinking about people as a whole. And I really loved your reflection, Samonga Liso, around when we see young people perhaps leaning away from their culture. That do we actually need to ask the question? And what could we be doing in the space to actually create an environment that allows them to feel proud and belonging and authentic and to be able to bring their whole selves? Samangali, so is there any kind of final offering that you would want to give the audience to take away?

Simangaliso Nyoni: 49:07

I think to finish off, it's just been a great opportunity to be in conversation. I feel like we were speaking at Pippa, but I think I'm really grateful that there are people that have shown up and thought this was a very important conversation to be a part of. So I think um I'm I'm really grateful um for that. And I think the work continues. I think having these conversations and being intentional about change is quite key. For those that do have time, I would also implore you to be reading the Multicultural Framework Review, which really talks about the voices of many, because I represent part of multiculturalism, not all of it, but the voices of many that have come together and spoken about what they see, what they want to see happening as change within the education system. I would say that's a really good resource for you to really look at and then make a commitment of going, what small part in change can I play, right? Within a school? Are we holding conversations in schools as well around culture and diversity and celebrating that is key to building up respectful relationships where everyone is seen and celebrated for who they are?

MacKillop Institute: 50:15

Amazing. Um, thank you so much, everyone, for joining us in the conversation today and leaning in. If you would like more information at the McKillop Institute or around any of the speakers today, please reach our website, connect with us on LinkedIn. If you'd like to connect with Bo or Samonga Liso further, please do go to our LinkedIn page and you'll find them on there and you can reach out to them and connect with them after this session. Again, thank you so much to our speakers and thank you to our audience.