Episode 15 : Gaz & Yin

What if the bravest adventures aren’t about crossing continents… but about coming face to face with a life you thought you’d left behind?

Rebecca and Caroline speak to Gaz and Yin joined Race Across the World as ex-partners — married for over 30 years, now separated — and still close friends.

But this episode goes far beyond the race.

Because for Yin, stepping onto that start line meant returning not just to a country, but to a past she had spent years trying to move on from. What followed wasn’t just a physical challenge — it was deeply personal, emotional, and at times overwhelming.

And when the race ended early for them, something else began.

✨ In this episode:

• The moment Yin almost didn’t get on the plane
• What it was really like returning to China and facing her past
• How grief and mental health shaped the experience
• The honest conversations they never had during their marriage
• How the race helped strengthen their friendship in a completely new way
• Why they’ve chosen not to go back, but to move forward differently

💡 This episode is really about:

• Facing parts of your life you thought were behind you
• How relationships can evolve — even after they end
• The power of honesty, compassion and understanding
• Finding a way forward when things don’t go to plan

They didn’t win the race.

But what they found — about themselves, and each other has changed the way they live their lives today.

We are back with a new series of Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained. Please follow us on Instagram for lots of fun, adventures and behind the scenes antics.

NVNG is hosted by Rebecca Rees and Caroline Bridge. Rebecca is an ICF PCC Executive Coach and Co-Founder of Peak 15 Coaching, passionate about how our brains work and helping people unlock possibility. Caroline won BBC’s Race Across the World 2025 with her son Thomas — a series watched by over six million and shortlisted at the National Television Awards.

🎯 Our Mission: To help people pause, see beyond what holds them back, and discover new possibilities for greater happiness and wellbeing.

📩 Contact Us : We’d love to hear your questions, ideas, or stories of stepping outside your comfort zone: WhatsApp: https://wa.me/447375220027

Instagram @nothingventuredpodcast

👉 Please follow, share, and be part of the NVNG adventure — it all starts with daring to try.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Welcome to Nothing Venture, Nothing Game. This podcast is all about the moments when people step outside their comfort zone. Sometimes by choice, sometimes because life pushes them there. And today's story is a perfect example.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Yes, our guests are Gaz and Yin, who were fellow competitors with Tom and me on Race Across the World. They also happen to have a pretty remarkable story. They were married for more than 30 years, they separated, and today they're still incredibly close and genuinely best friends. Thank you so much for joining us. What surprises me is nobody knows that we did not know each other until after Race had finished.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

I find that's incredible. So I mean, where did you first meet the three of you?

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Sorry, we didn't meet, but however, when we flew out on the plane, me and Yin spotted Caroline and Tom and Finn and John Ed because we were all set with a chaperone, and all three chaperones looked exactly the same. All had lanyards, all had their phones around their things. It was like they were definitely in the media. And we were with Alex and we weren't allowed to talk to anybody. And Alex obviously knew the other two runners and almost dragged us away from talking to anybody. Then we went into lockdown. Everyone all went to their other hotels or BVs for two or three days. And then it wasn't until we literally all met on the dam. And that was the first time. So what you see in the show is like our reactions, i.e., we'd never met them before, and then we were right, we saw them on the plane. We saw them on the tram.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

I didn't know that until just now that you clocked us on the plane. Because Thomas and I were slightly looking around thinking, well, they can't have all got us on separate flights, but we were also too frightened, if you know what I mean, because we didn't want to ruin it. We were told we mustn't speak to anybody. Even going to the loo, we had to ask and just check because they wanted to make sure we didn't talk to anybody. It's so authentic how they keep you separate, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 2:06

And then we all started getting lost on trains and poaches and all wrong and all that stuff. Ah, and then we spotted Caroline and Tom, because we went horribly wrong, a bit like you did, in a park in the dark. And I can't remember because we got off, you're supposed to head to the centre of Beijing, we never did. We jumped off far too early, a bit like you guys. And we were in this park in the dark with the map trying to work out where we were gonna go. And you and Tom were it also in the park, but a little bit a little bit away. But again, we weren't allowed to talk to you though.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Did we go back to the dam when you looked at the other competitors, Gaz and Yin?

SPEAKER_01 2:43

And to be honest, I mean I'm competitive against myself, but I didn't really do race for digging or anything like that. And so I wasn't even really bothered in all honesty about winning place or not, or that part of it. I was more interested in just like visiting the location, seeing what the journey lay ahead and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

So I can definitely confirm that because when we were allowed to introduce ourselves to each other and know more, Tom and I specifically remember going up to you, and you said, I'm Gaz, and I'm going to win this.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

I'm sure I did it. I'm sure I did it.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

They were your very words, and our confidence just drained right out of us. And we were like, Oh my god, we haven't got a hope now. And that's when we knew it was real. And that was the they were the only words we said to you until we met a few months later, after it had all wrapped and been filmed and edited and everything.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

It was all a shock to the system, and we were and it was very much rabbit in the headlights. We're all got transported to the dam in these uh we had a mini bus with the windows blacked out, so you didn't know where you were yet, so you didn't know where you were going. And it was so bizarre. And at that point, we're thinking, well, what have we let ourselves in for? Are we gonna be sold off to the Chinese Mafia or something? I just it was bizarre.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Yin, can I ask you specifically, what was your reaction when you found you were going to China?

SPEAKER_01 4:00

And at that point, we were very excited, thinking, Well, where are we gonna go? And we opened the envelope, and it said China. And I looked at as he looked at me, he he knew immediately what I was thinking. We just went and the room literally dropped like the the vibe, and then they were like, Oh, is that okay? And I was like, Okay, and then I went to the I said, I might need to go to the toilet, so I went off to the toilet and just to like just gather my thoughts, really. And I must have been gone longer than I thought because when I wandered back, they were like, Oh, are you okay? And then when we got to the airport, I ran away.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Did you? Oh, tell us about what we don't know about that. And also, could you possibly just briefly touch on why it meant so much to you to have to go back to China?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

So, growing up, I grew up in a really traditional Chinese household, and it was very, I mean, it was it was really traditional. I mean, we weren't allowed out in the sense of socializing with friends, it was very much a male-oriented household. I was expected to do like housework, they didn't really like so my brother got shipped off to private school. Me and my sister we were deemed because we were girls, we we weren't really worthy of going to private school or anything like that. There was a lot of like domestic abuse. It wasn't the most pleasant childhood, basically. So basically, when I left, I left home pretty much as soon as I could. So about 18, and then literally, when I left home, I shut the door on almost like my not so much with my culture, but like a lot of that part put the part of the culture that I didn't agree with, I didn't get on with. I made and I picked and chose what I wanted to retain about the Chinese culture, things like celebrating Chinese New Year, moon festival, and particularly when I had autumn, I changed like the way she saw Chinese culture different to how I saw it. So, and I've never gone back to although I retained a uh a relationship with mum and dad that it was very, very strained. And I don't talk to my older brother, I just don't like his beliefs in terms of sort of like the way that that there's there's good and bad parts about Chinese culture. So for me, I see like the misogyny in like the Chinese culture, and it's it is all ramped up for the man and that sort of stuff, and so the minute I knew I just thought I can't do this because it's gonna bring up everything about my childhood, and that's not what I want to do on this show because I'd gone there specifically to deal with the grief that I was carrying with Chris, but also to have like had spend that time with Gaz, yeah, because we were also carrying quite a few things from like the the ending of our relationship, knowing that I'm gonna be probably facing like my childhood really was quite a sledgehammer emotionally. It was the first time that I thought I'm gonna have to deal with this. And when we got to the airport, we sat down for a great and I guess looked at me and said, Oh, do you need to cover, do you need to have some time for yourself? And said, I do, so I want to. And I basically ran off.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

So you so yin up ran off. I'm sitting in whatever lounge is air china, whatever. So we now go to Technic, I'm talking to Alex. Half an hour goes past, and Alex is starting to get worried. He starts messaging all the producers on the WhatsApp, gets to an hour, Yin still hasn't come back. So then I go and walk around the airport, eventually find Yin on a fire escape. She then says to me, Look, they didn't, I've got my bank card still. You know, do you want to just go? Should we just go home? Should we just do it? And then so then I spend the next sort of 20 minutes saying to you, look, I'll do whatever you want to do. If you want to go, oh my god, we're not even on the plane yet, and what's gone on horribly wrong? And incredible. And so then Yin finally comes back.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

I think that's sort of like I said to me, because we had a conversation where Gaz said, Do you think you could do it? I said, I can't do China if we're more than I know that I can do it for a week and be like relatively normal, let's save it, without too much impact. I said, the longer we stay in China, I know that I'm gonna deteriorate so that I know it's gonna get to me. I know I'm gonna start like becoming introverted. It won't be me that's on the show, and I won't get the best experience out. And we don't know when at race how long you're gonna be in a country. I sort of said, Look, you want to take that chance because we could just be there for a few days, it might be just the start point before they spring us off to somewhere else. We could just be there for a week, and I just thought, do you know what? We've I've dragged him through the whole like kind of like the the whole because it's a long process, isn't it, Caroline, to get to be on the show. And I just thought we spent all that time doing it, we were so excited, and so I in the end I said all right, let's just let's just do it and see. But you might have to carry me depending on what it looks like. I mean, it got to a point where Skewtigar came out and said, like, is everything on here sort of thing? I mean, we're like, it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

So it sounds as if it could have gone either way, and then you found you found some kind of determination somewhere to say, I'm going to do it, let's just do it.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Absolutely. It's one of these things. If we'd known where we were going initially, then we would then we would have probably backed out because they do always have like people in the background as reserves.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yes. You do know, Gaz, you do know that uh Elizabeth and Natitia were reserves.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 9:19

They told me that actually I didn't I didn't even know that.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

It's funny because even for the moment, as you well know, you you send off your application, you film something, then it goes off, and then you have to do half a dozen casting sessions and meet all that sort of thing, and then you start you do lots of these sort of teams or zoom meetings and yeah, vaccinations and uh the vaccinations just lasted all the I mean we must have spent about two or three grand. I know you get the money back, but spent two or three grand going through the whole summer of getting inoculations and stuff. So we knew from all where we were gonna go. We thought it was gonna be the Silk Road, maybe starting in Istanbul, going through the stars, maybe Russia in stuff. And ending up I didn't know the choke, so I didn't know I just assumed every every leg was one day. I didn't realise each leg can last up to a week. I just assumed you do it for one day.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

And basically at that point then I'd been living with Gaz after Chris had passed for about two months to two two, two and a half months. I mean, I was it wasn't in the best mental state where I when I when like straight after Chris had passed away, I was living on my own in my own place, and I again because I didn't really deal with emotions very well, I'd box them away, push them down, and then and in and nothing like that had ever happened to me before. And I just thought, oh well, that's that then that grieving happened, be done in six weeks, I'll move on. Well, I kept bottling it up, it just kept leaking out physically. My body was just like, you're not gonna be able to box that off yin. I ended up like self-harming. So it got to one morning when I realised that I couldn't carry on living on my own like this. So I just reached out to Baz, burst into tears, and he just said, Come and live with me. When I got to Gazes, I was like, not in the best of the place. By the time I applied to race, I was agrophobic. The only thing that I was doing was logging on for work because work made me respite from like emotions and having to deal with grief. And then I would work until Baz got home because then as would then be the light relief again, escape thinking about the grief. I was watching the BBC news, whatever, and then the race advert came on. And in my mind, I was like, I'll do that because you know what? I need to not be agrophobia, I need to actually like engage with the world again. What's it's gonna do that for me? So then I've got obsessed with it, and I just came home that night and basically I said, We're applying for race across the world.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

This is why I want to do race, blah blah blah. You know, we're an ex-married couple, we're living together, blah. And it just sounded so it ticked a lot of boxes because it sounded so weird. Yeah, and then literally within an hour of Yin sending off, the ri the one of the researchers or runners or whatever rang in up and said, Look, can you guys come up for a casting this Saturday? And every process of the casting, we just thought we'll go to London, it's only half an hour of the road, we have a day out, we'll have a bit of fun. And the on the first two or three casting sessions, you're literally in and out really quickly.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

It kind of like started making me go out and meet people. So in some ways it was really, really good because, like in a really weird kind of way, and quite a public way, when we were being interviewed about our relationship, about the grief with Chris and stuff, I would get quite upset. I'd cry. I mean, uh, I said to Rita quite often, you're just gonna have tapes of me just crying all the time. But in some ways, it was quite cathartic to do it. I just did it in a very odd way because most people grieve either private or with the family and friends. I just I just grieve on cameras. So it was quite, it was one of those things that like if I didn't do it, I don't think I would be where I am now. It just helped me to kind of like break down kind of like that rut that I had got into about not going out by myself or not feeling secure going out because part of the reason of the agriphobia was on the occasions that I had gone out from on my own for a walk or something, I would suddenly break down crying. So people would go, Are you okay? And then it because you then become super self-conscious, and you're it's quite a private thing, and you're sitting there going, someone in public just going, What's wrong with you? And you you can't explain. I'm not other people's responsibility either. So you become super self-conscious about it, so then that kind of drove the agrophobia because at least if I was as or altered, and they knew so they could shield me or go, oh, are you okay? Do you want to go somewhere private or take me home or whatever it is?

SPEAKER_03 13:48

That's incredible. I mean, what I find incredible is that being in the situation you were in, being agrophobic, and then seeing something on the television and saying, I'm gonna go for that, which is there are so many other things that could be stepping stones, and you went for the kind of most extreme possible. Is that part of your character, do you think? I'll let Gaz answer that if you think I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

You are which is quite extreme, yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Quite impulsive as well. So a bit like when I left home at the age of 18.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Definitely very headstrong, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

That wasn't a planned thing. I literally woke up one day and like the the there had been a lead up where there had been a lot of arguments with my mum and dad, and I just woke up one day, I put some clothes into two plastic bags and then left. Wow. And where did you go at that stage? I went um I went to a friend's and kicked I I did a bit of sofa serving, then got myself a bed sit, moved in, got myself a job. So within about two, three weeks, I was self-sufficient, got a job, deferred my university placement, decided to work for a year, get some money before I went to university. I tend to go with my gut, and that can be quite impulsive and quite bold if if it in some of the actions. I've never felt when those things happen, I've never felt fear.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

It it does. And we were interviewing someone called Sheila in one of our earlier episodes, and she set up a travel company for people to go and do volunteer travel all over the world, but in far out places. And she talked about quite a few people going in the grieving process, and they would ask her before they went, is this the right thing to do? Because I'm grieving. And she would say this is a very personal thing, and it's up to you. However, she said being away and being with a supportive group of people, actually, a lot of them found things they never thought they would find in terms of helping them through that grief because they did that, and this is similar, isn't it? Doing something so different.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

And every single one of us who did the race journey, we all found out something about each other. You're like really up against it. And I mean, we learn a lot off of each other and about ourselves, and the relationship we have now wouldn't be the same if we hadn't have done race together. I mean, we were always quite close anywhere, but we certainly are a lot more comfortable with each other, aren't we?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

And super honest. I remember the history of our marriage broke down and and we separated and went our separate ways, and we always kept in contact, and and there was always issues, and Yin was there for me. There was a lot of heart, there was a lot of things, you know. I won't go into too much detail, but it we can go to some very bleak moments where Yin was there to save me, and she helped me. She didn't have to, we weren't together anymore. We had a daughter and we had the dog together, but she didn't have to help me in any way. But there was some times where she, you know, I think I don't think I would be here if it wasn't for Yin. And I take my hat off to her. And as soon as Race gave us that, or she said to me, 'Look, we need to do this,' and I could see how much it meant to her. A couple of months off work, blah blah all that's, but I didn't I didn't hesitate. I could have just said, No, it's not for me, we're not together anymore. And similar when Jim ran me, she was in front of tears and said, 'Look, I'm gonna do something,' and I'm like, without any hesitation, come stay with me, come and live with me, whether it's one day, one year, two years, whatever. And it's weird because from the outside, everyone doesn't understand our relationship in the sense that while I know so many people who separate, I mean, we're together for 31 years, so it's so it's quite a long time. But I know people where they've been together for five years, 10, 15 years, separate, and actually we hate each other, or they there's a room for or there's a reason to blame someone for the marriage breakdown, whether it's infidelity or money or whatever, there's all of that. And we just drifted apart, and and I'm the first to put my hands out. I didn't work at the relationship at all, or anything like that. I took Yin for granted. I was drinking far too much, I was doing lots of other stuff that I won't go into that was that I shouldn't have been doing. I just hated myself and hated Yin and didn't want to be in a relationship. So when she helped me get back together, as soon as she needed help, I didn't hesitate to bring her in to the house. And you know, the house is two up, two down, it's not a massive house. And but I had no hesitation with looking after Yin. And then so when she said let's do race 100%, and then we went to China. Well, as soon as they said it was I saw her face drop.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

We'll still give it our all sorts of thing, it'd be a miracle if we get out of China alive, basically, because by then I'd started losing my mind, so it was really I found it so like that leaving Sanya Island, I found that really so tough mentally because it is things back to you, and you are facing the life that you left.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Very much so. There was a lot of trigger moments being in China, any of us particularly like being in China, but there was a lot of trigger moments because as I've mentioned, it's very misogynistic. Everyone smoked everywhere, no food, like no sleep, and it was it was it's a really tough. I didn't realise how tough it was gonna be. We had the language barrier, it was even worse for Yin because she didn't speak the language, she spoke a different dialect. So, what would happen was people would look at her and expect her to know, and she didn't, and then so we had quite a few sort of racism issues out there, and even the crew that we were with were quite shocked how people were treating yin. To me, that was perfect because I was like, Oh, it's a westerner, let's have a chat, let's take it, let's have a selfie with gaz, but with yin, they they just went engaged with her, and you could see yin just disengaging with the whole process, not really wanted to be there. And we tried and we came as hard as we could, couldn't we?

SPEAKER_01 19:26

So when I left home, and even when I retained a relationship with mum and dad, it always felt, well, you're not really one of us. So there was always that kind of slight rejection element from my own family. So when I went to China and then people didn't accept me there either, because I didn't I look like them, but I couldn't speak. So I was in this really weird place of wanting to commit to the show and do the very best, but also having a complete mental and internal breakdown of all this resurgence of everything that I thought I had boxed away and never have to deal with ever again in my life, be it being thrown at me very intensely in that three, four weeks that we were in China thing. So it was just a bit nuts, really.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

And and the viewers would have no idea what was going on behind the scenes, we wouldn't have got any of that, but makes it even more remarkable that you got through that in in four weeks' time. And the other thing is that you imagine that it's a team and you're all meeting up a lot, whereas actually you you don't at all, do you? Or there were a few times where you were seen together.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

When we got to the checkpoints, depending on what time you got in, there was you have a bit of R and R for 24 hours or 48 hours. So you would sometimes film a bit with other couples or another other two groups, but on the first leg, Caroline and Tom were either fourth or fifth out of the the two groups. And so far behind, we didn't get to meet the first three teams. We were so behind. There you go. So we didn't get to see anybody, and then we just get I it is hard because when you without giving the secrets of the show away, when you decide what route you want to go, whether you want to go countryside, you want to go city route, you could run a noodle bar, and we're like, Oh, okay, that's a lot good. Because again, we're all like getting wrapped up in the TV show a little bit. So we went and did that, and that was a bit of a disaster. There was no customers, and the woman was quite mean to yin, and and it so you and you're I just we're really, really tired at this point. We're not really eating very well. Everyone starts to feel a bit dodgy anyway, and it was just so it's it was quite it's quite hard that bit. I mean, one thing we've always said there's no regrets about doing the show. We absolutely loved doing the show, it's brought us a lot closer. Once we left, are we allowed to explain what happened at the end when we when we left the show? Because we never got as far as the the checkpoint three. We got off the island and everything was just going wrong, and basically we just we just got on a train to go off the island because we had to get off the island.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

And we got to the bus station in time. We went to buy the tickets, and everyone was like, Can I get the bus? I mean to buy a ticket. They said, Not until tomorrow because they'd be so set out. So then we had to scramble to try and fight get a train. We went to a local train station to get a sleeper. We got to The train station, and the the trains that were available were none of them were really going in the right direction.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

So you were pushed to your limits and you found your limits, and then you we knew so we at this point it's getting going from bad to worse, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

We're also we we had this this discussion. Look, we were so far behind, we're not gonna make it up. Um so we made the decision because we knew we were gonna get eliminated, we were so far behind, we'd spent three or four days just trying to get to where we were. We were miles off course, and we just said no, enough's enough. So we decided to go to Istanbul.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

And so, what did you learn about each other? So you you'd known each other for 31 years, and then yeah, when we got to Istanbul, it was quite.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

I mean, we had a I'm being open, we had a blazing route for about two days because we'd we'd start blaming each other, why did we do this? And and what was really, really good about the whole process, it was quite a nice healing process because we spoke about all the things of why our marriage broke down, why we'd stopped talking, why we'd stopped caring for each other, why I did what I did, why you know what you did, and stuff. And it was one of those sort of things where you don't know if we'd had that conversation five years previously, we'd still be husband and wife. The fact that we didn't, and we went our separate ways, and we had a nice four big four-bedroom house, and one lived on one side and the other lived on the other side. And whilst we communicated on the bare minimum, oh, what's for tea tonight? I'll walk the dog and this bill needs paying. There was no honest conversations as in why are we not loving each other anymore? Why are we in bedrooms now? Why why aren't we making efforts to do stuff? And and then COVID didn't help because again, you then became insular, and just the nature of I and it gave me a good excuse to drink far too much. And the trouble is I took everything to far to excess, but it was nice because we actually spent four or five days in Istanbul, and the first two or three days was we're we it was it was it was hard because we had to uncover some real home truths of why it didn't work and what we should have done. And whilst we don't blame each other, because it's a it's a process, you can't turn back the clock. And again, whilst the relationship that me and you're never gonna get back together, at one stage of the Daily Mail was trying to run a campaign to get us back together, but we you know we knew there's too much history that we'll never be husband and wife or or that kind of relationship, but we'll always be best friends, we'll all have each other's back, and from the outside, people just don't understand that we can still be best friends, we don't have to be husband and wife, and yeah, yeah, it's weird. I don't think people just want us to almost either hate each other or get back together, they can't see how it should be. And that's the one thing that we definitely take away from right from race is it did bring some home truths, it got us talking again. Yes, but we had had counseling and marriage counselling, and even when we did that, we just used to try and compete with each other.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

It was it was the first time I actually felt like, oh, do you know what? Like both of us were really truly honest with each other in terms of reflecting on the marriage, and I think that has gone some really has gone a long way in healing the relationship and understanding what we mean to each other, particularly since we've come back. And it it's great because it's I've got a I know someone that I know that has who truly has got my back and will support me, and that's such uh that's such a wealthy thing to have, you know what I mean? When you think about like kind of like because you can have all the money in the world, you can have a big house and all the rest of it, but to know that you've got someone that is genuinely there for you, who loves you for because for who you are, and not like in a marriage sort of sense of the word.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

It's really special. What advice would you give to people who were five years before they separated, so that they could get to where you've got to?

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Honesty and talking. And that's the thing is is like the during our period when we were we were married, when we should have been talking, there is a reason for that. If only I had just pause and asked more softly. Right. That's the that's the thing is that it's the it's the care and the wall. Your immediate reaction when you're in a marriage is your expectation is that the other person just should love you. And so that if you kind of like go a bit wayward, it's almost like, well, why are you doing that? Why aren't you supporting me? But actually the question should be what's going on?

SPEAKER_03 26:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

You know, what's you're not how you're you're not the person that I know you can be? What's the underlying issue? Can we maybe what we should do is go out for somewhere away from home or somewhere where it's neutral, and actually, I'm gonna ask you not to drink tonight. And could we just have a heart to heart, but not try and not blame each other and keep calm and stay calm and kind of like be more intuitive and supportive? Because that was always there for both of us, because we knew when we were being being horrible to each other, and we knew when we were scoring points of each against each other, and the more you do that, the less warm there is between you, and even if he had shown me an ounce of like even a small spark of war to say I'm sorry, but can you are you okay? That for me would have meant everything to just open that slight door to open the conversation. Anyone if you're if you're in that situation, that's what I would encourage you to do. If you you really want to fight for your marriage, it's just about being warm, yes, and just that supportiveness, and it's and knowing that it's like I said to you, that where I am with him now, because I know he's there for me, yes, and that in our marriage, I didn't know he was there for me, and that's for me is the and that's where you get that kind of richness of that support and that confidence, and that's where I considered myself to be rich. I know I've got him.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

I don't know why, because we we didn't know each other in race at all, but since then we've become friends. Everybody knows you are beautiful people, and the whole public want to get you back together. They do, they must do, and it must really annoy you. But what would it take to get you back together and why wouldn't you consider it? Because you clearly love each other in some way.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

I just I don't actually sell. I honestly do. I never say never, but I do think it's got to the point where we're in such a good place. If we were to have a romantic relationship, it would just it would spoil the whole thing. And the dynamics of our relationship is so special that I'm scared that if we did something like that would spoil it. And that would and the month it's gone, it's gone. You know, we lost it once, I don't want to lose it a second time.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

I must admit, like people, the public the when we've encountered people and they've come out and they've had you've had the conversation and the chat and the selfie and all the rest of it, they are extremely generous and so kind. And and especially when we it first did, because we were the first couple out. I genuinely said to guys, oh not looking forward to it, Aaron, because genuinely I thought I'd walk down the street and people would just go, loser. Like I'm always amazed by the generosity of people and how curious they are. Most people are just genuinely your love for each other, just show it shines out, which is really lovely because I and that's what I would hope that the program like reflects our genuine friendship. Because we are genuinely estimates in that zone. It's nice that it did that.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

I have to have I have to I have to add, I love it when we get spotted in the street. Because when we get it's tied down now and we do wear our same race releases that we bought. I love it when we get when we go out, I think he gets really nervous about it. And if someone spots uh in the uh spots us together in the street and wants to chat, she then always pushes me forward to talk to them and stuff. And I love it, it's absolutely brilliant. Everyone's just been amazing and just said, Look, we thought you were brilliant. We we were hoping that you would stay in it, and then everyone's oh, I don't understand why someone gets eliminated. Well, I said we went to Rotterdam at the weekend, and then strangely, and we thought, Oh my god, our like our little star power has disappeared, no one cares about us. And then on the last train from St. Pancras to where I live, which is a 20-minute journey, this man walked up the carriage, turned around, gave us a double look, sat down, then came back and went, it's you know gaz from race, isn't it? And we're like, and it was really nice. He wanted a little chat for five minutes, wanted a selfie, he said, I'm gonna send it to my to my two daughters, and then as he got off the train again, he was like, That was it. And he said, Oh, he's still traveling, where we've been tomorrow town means to build power, a few trips in the summer, and everyone's been really, really positive. We've not had any sort of negativity. We don't regret ever doing race, as much as I said I'm in it to win it, that would have been great, but that's a byproduct of actually being in a competition.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

Brilliant, fantastic, and looking back in, it was clearly what you've described as is really tough. How do you look back on it now as an experience?

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Oh, it's amazing I mean, now I mean for me, it did everything it needed to do, it got me out like re-engaging with the world, it got me out, it it made me feel excited about living and experience in the world again. You see things on TV and they escalate bigger than they are, so it creates that fear to keep you in and like re-engaging on the race journey where you know you are reliant on the generosity of people. It showed me that humanity, there is something worth it re-engaging. So for me, like I said, it did what it needed to do to make me feel excited about living again, about wanting to still get out there, travel, meet people, etc. And the other thing it did for me was like when I got back, I mean, I I'd been having grief counselling anyway before going on race, literally right up until the last minute of race every week with a counsellor. And then when I got back, I went back to my counsellor and we talked about my childhood. So I started dealing with everything that I kind of like had to shut away, and now it it has it's positively influenced all aspects of my life. So I'm the manager of a team about 50-60 people, and prior to going on race, I managed in a certain type of way, and I wouldn't say it was the most supportive, let's say, because I'm always driven by targets and all the rest of it, and the work that I do is really har really quite stressful, and it's also very much influenced by productivity. So, but now I I approach my team completely differently. So the the the team looks like much more supportive. I I put more so in terms of productivity measures, it's not blanket now, it's very individualized because I know now that stress in influences people very differently. I know that mental health influences very differently, it has an impact on their daily productivity, etc. Every part of race and what it taught me has influenced pretty much every aspect of my life in the way that I live my life now. And I try to be a much more generous person, more kind-hearted, more understanding, more empathetic. Even when I don't know myself how to how that works, I'm more willing to kind of like find out about it through whether that's counseling or through kind of like so. Elizabeth, I know she does a lot of somatic healing, so we've had conversations about somatic healing and how trauma has held in your body physically, even when you think you've moved on from it. So, like things like trauma responses and how that how that manifests, but you might not understand why that's happening to you. So for me, it's been an incredible journey, and I've learned so much about myself, and like I said, it has influenced all parts of my life really, really positively.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Yes. Well, what is your your best experience on race?

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Working in the lotus route farm, being in our waders, in with the whether what it was, there was fish, there was snails, there was it was disgusting, but it was great because it was like physical hard work and it it was just really nice. It was hard, it's nice to get your hands dirty, get in the water, the sun was coming up, you're seeing this amazing scenery that you're we're never ever gonna see again.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

For me personally, it's got to be the food because all the food that we had is all the food that I grew up with, and it was all the stuff that I ate as a kid that is too much bother to for me to make sort of normally. So then I'd get really excited, and I'd go like, oh my god, they've got this ass. And he'd go like, What is it?

SPEAKER_02 34:36

I said, Well, no, no, I just see it, it's not also I must ask Gazanin when we met four months after filming had stopped. You were asked on camera, who do you think won? And do you remember your response?

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Absolutely, and it was it was weird, and it was just an instant reaction because we just assumed rightly or wrongly, the old people I'm old, we're all old, would have been lagging last. So we just said it's gonna be either Elizabeth or or Rebecca or or she or Finn and Tron. Exactly. So it was just it was just more of an impulse, i.e., we just assumed the young youngsters had done it because the olders, like us, had either come in last or you were trading last. So it wasn't any sort of malice or anything like that, it was just more of a genuine look, we think the youngsters have won. Um and then obviously to be fair, we were very happy that you would won.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Also at the first leg, when you guys, because we were one of the three couples that did get to meet up and we could sit around the table with them, albeit it was only for about 20 minutes where we had to drink this weird tea and trying to cheers each other. And when we were sitting around the table, Letitia and Elizabeth Elizabeth were saying, like, how they lived in a huge lift in China, they spoke some Chinese, and they were saying, Oh, we seem to be going on really, really great, and always seems to be going flying well for us, and they came across really, really competently. Whereas I sat there, I don't want to talk to anyone because I'm scared. You were doing your bravado thing, and then finish showing they were saying, like, how like they were how everyone was helping them because they were young, so people were curious, so they were getting a lot of help along the way, whereas we were getting no help, and we were I was like having an emotional breakdown. That's was in shell shop on that first leg where he was like having coffee with drawers. So our basis was purely on that because that was the only time we met people, so we just immediately said, Well, they were like going great guns, you were trading, and so was Brian and Melvin. I mean, we we barely scraped it. I mean, to be honest, we thought we were gonna be in your camp on that first leg because we had so many disasters on that first leg, and because it like like I said, I mean, it we were when we opened the book and we saw that we were third, we couldn't actually believe it. We were just like, we were like, how did how the hell did that happen? There's just no way that we could like there we thought we were gonna be last genuine on that first leg.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

And also because when we got to the the island, when we arrived to the actual hotel, and Lisbeth and Letra are coming out, and I thought, and I assume they'd arrived at the same time as us, and they're like, We've been here a day and a half, and it reinforces that kind of like, oh well, they must be like brilliant at his race thing, something they've got it suspect.

SPEAKER_03 37:27

What Caroline, what do you think it was that got you and Tom to win then with that competition?

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Oh sheer determination and adaptability. I soon realized that it was the young people who could perhaps speak English, so I encouraged Tom to chat to the young, and they really readily took to him. And then my my I just would not give up.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

I was relentless. You were, I could see that. Just would not give up. I was like, no, I mean why give up? I came on to give it my best shot, and I didn't want to let my son down. So we were just relentless and we learned to adapt very quickly.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

It's hard because I do need two or three legs to work out the game. I knew on one of the biggest TV shows on the BBC, we had an amazing time, it was brought closer together, it was brought us together together as a family. We get spotted in the street. There's lots and lots and lots and lots of positives about the whole experience. Yes, we would have changed, we'd rather gone from India to China, but it is what it is. Yes, we know it's a game, you get eliminated, it is what it is. We wouldn't change it for a while. And funny enough, we've had this if they asked us to go back and do it again, as long as it's not China, we would do it. 100%. If they said, look, we want to give you another go, it didn't really work out. Would you be up for it?

SPEAKER_02 38:48

So have you applied again?

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Well, we assume we're not allowed to.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

Well, I don't know, but wouldn't that be amazing? People would love it. The public really took you to their heart. You are such beautiful people, and that is the only reason they want to.

SPEAKER_03 39:02

Yes! Sorry to be.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

But is isn't it surprising how it all turns out? Well, and some of the other things that really surprised Tom and I, we didn't know until we watched it what was going to happen with the other teams. Because of course, you're not aware all the way through. And the edit surprised us sometimes, and that was quite tough to take at times.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

It's it's it's it's weird, isn't it? It's constantly being filmed, and you think, oh, that'd be really good to use it in the show, and it's and they don't show it. They gave us lots of instructions of what it was going to be like and how we had to deal with it. We didn't listen once.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

It is so much tougher, isn't it? Well, we won't show it, we won't show it. You you went wrong, and we didn't realise until we saw the program that Thomas and I had actually gone off in the wrong direction as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

It's mad.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

They don't tell you I I have to say, for for Thomas, it's possibly set him up in life in the fact that I want him to know that I was a capable mother, no matter what my age. And that was really important to me because we we've come to a stage in life whereby I was being overlooked and possibly should have retired. But actually, now we're we've actually been asked to do a half marathon. But that's really exciting, and I'm training really hard, and again, I've I've got a purpose, and I'm so proud of the fact that he's working hard, he's saving money, and he's doing what he wants to do in life. And in the future, he can draw back on this confidence and this experience.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

I remember talking to Tom, and I know I quite warned him instantly that he's a he's a bit like me, he's a really nice, he's a big personality, really nice guy. I was awful at school, didn't get anything, dyslexic, but I've I've run a and I run a successful business that's doing very, very well. And I sort of tried to say to Tom, look, you know, your your biggest asset is you. It doesn't matter whether you're educated or not, your asset's you and he is lovely. Thank you. He is, and I I know I warned him quite quite quickly. He's just like a younger version of me.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

That's why I like it because he reminds me of I see a lot of gaz in him, and he's just he's like an excitable puppy, and like he's just so he is just so easy and so likable. Much like yourself, Caroline, as well.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

And you hit an head, all of us will go. There is no malice, there is no real competition. It's something that brought us all together because we've experienced it, and I'm sure we'll meet up every now and again and we'll talk about it, and we've all doing other things. It was an amazing trip, and and everyone was really, really nice.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

Gaz, did you realise when you very kindly came to visit Tom in Ely because he'd set up this rug business from visiting the village of Salalas and wanting to pay back? And these rugs are incredible, and he he worked on them. Did you realize that his friend Joe, when he knew you were coming, broke out of a cold sweat and went, Oh my god, I'm going to meet a real celebrity.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

You need to explain to us what a fridge magnet is first.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

I will, I will. What three mantras would you say to people who were thinking about doing something that was out of their comfort zone to encourage them to do it?

SPEAKER_01 42:14

I'd say don't think about it too much.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

There's that element of just go for it. Whatever's gonna happen, it's it's gonna be it's gonna be an experience, whether it's good or bad, and you can learn from it.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

And actually, the beauty is when it all goes wrong for me. Because that's when you really learn about yourself, that's when you're really generous about yourself, that's when you recognise how to be kind to yourself and to other people, it humbles you and you learn so much more. Good point, Yen. That's marvelous.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Love that. So over to you, Yen. Do you think it's possible to fall back in love?

SPEAKER_01 42:49

With me or with someone else? With someone else. I mean, for right now, I'm I don't think I'll be falling in love with anyone. I've been really, really blessed to have had a really great marriage with Gaz. And and I say that because it's like we've known each other for well over 30 odd years or whatever, and uh a large chunk of that is when we were married, and most of the marriage was amazing. Brilliant father. We had some real laughs along the way in our marriage, and then do you know what? I'm quite happy with just being me and my own at the moment. And the journey that race has brought me on, and afterwards learning about myself and the way like that I can afford a bit of love to myself. I do feel really, really blessed actually. I don't think I would have felt like that if I hadn't done race. Race, I suppose, like kick-started me back into life and like those feelings and that appreciation, like that appreciation of life and what it is there is out there. Quite often when you get so many mocks, it's quite easy to like not see that posity. And for me, race gained, and I was in that place, but race gained. Gave me that impetus to like actually put see start seeing life through a different lens again.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Definitely. Where are you going to find somebody better than Gaz?

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

That's what I say. Because Tom see as a way he looks at you differently now after doing race and sees your capability. Has he ever said to you like that he finds you inspiring? Because you are you are inspiring. Hugely inspiring.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

Thank you. So we did episode four. Tom was our first guest, and I could see I felt hugely privileged to be able to watch their relationship. And I referred to the letter that Tom wrote Caroline that he uh read to her on one of the final episodes. And he talked about winning because he'd had the opportunity to travel with his mum before they knew they'd won. And that's pretty much what you were saying, Ian, about winning because you had the experience to grow your relationship and experience it. And I've seen them subsequently, and their relationship is very, very close for sure. I didn't see it beh before, but now absolutely it is. You can see he adores you. And but at a lovely level, they tease each other all the time. All the time.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

You two are amazing. And I can I can honestly understand why the world wants you to get back together because you are beautiful people and beautiful together. I can't help but say what I see.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

No, I know exactly. Oh well, you're very kind, Caroline. You're very kind. And if we ever do get back, you'll be the first to know.

SPEAKER_03 45:36

Thank you so much for sharing so many insights into your life behind the scenes before you went on race, what that was really like for both of you, and how you've come out of that. Um, having been married for 30 years, separating, and now being the greatest of friends.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

And I think people listening can recognise just how special that is. Having been through so many dark times in so many ways, and yet there's so much of life to look forward to and enjoy.