The human connection: Cultivating conversations that spark change

In this episode, we sit down with Harriet Vocking, founder of For.Tomorrow and a veteran of 14 years in sustainable fashion and communications. Harriet shares her unconventional path into PR, her early encounters with sustainability in the 90s, and the highs and lows of building (and rebuilding) a purpose-driven agency.

She reflects on her years at Eco-Age, working alongside Livia Firth, travelling to supply chains across the world, and using the red carpet as a storytelling platform for sustainable fashion. Harriet also opens up about the shock closure of Eco-Age and how it spurred her to launch For.Tomorrow with a renewed focus on people, positivity, and creative, credible communications.

From redefining sustainability storytelling to tackling the industry’s systemic failures, Harriet brings humour, honesty and razor-sharp insight into what needs to change — and how creative industries can help drive that change.

Key topics covered:

• Harriet’s career journey into sustainability and PR
• The rise of Eco-Age and the Green Carpet Challenge
• Surviving crisis and rebuilding through For.Tomorrow
• Why sustainability communications must be creative, credible and human
• Challenges facing the fashion industry and why progress is slow
• Collaboration, networks and the power of bringing people together
• Innovation stalling in fashion and how to change it
• The future of Threads of Change
• Harriet’s dream influencer partnership (hint: Stacey Solomon)

Looking for fresh ways to make your sustainability message stand out?

Download Blast’s free guide, 5 Ways to Unearth Big Ideas for Successful Sustainability Campaigns, at bright-ideas.blast.co.uk — it’s full of practical ways to develop ideas that are original, on-brand, and effective.

If you’re ready to take the next step, book a call with our team to discuss your project: https://calendly.com/blastdesignlondon/intro-video-call-clone.

Transcript

Speaker: 0:37

I'm very happy to welcome Harriet Vocking, founder of For Tomorrow to the podcast. Harriet's one of the busiest and in demand people I know, and I've been trying to pin her down for weeks, and here she is. Welcome Harriet.

Speaker 2: 0:50

Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker: 0:55

To start, can you tell us about your own personal journey and what inspired you to focus on sustainability?

Speaker 2: 1:03

I always knew I wanted to be in PR and communications. I don't know why. I just had a desire to be in pr. And always knew I had quite a creative mind that I would be bored sitting at a desk looking at Excel spreadsheets. And as you was told, by me being the busiest and hard to pin down, probably organization wasn't gonna be my best thing. So a job as an executive assistant wasn't gonna be for me. So I started in marketing with an ad agency. Then went to work for a law firm for five years where I loved crisis communications. Like that kind of 24 hours always on the go just really appealed to me. And at the same time I did a lot of work with internal communications and it was when sustainability, so this must have been in. The year, like 1999, going back to the nineties here when, there was a sustainability manager for the first time ever and it was all about recycling paper. And even me, I was like, oh my God, this is like the most boring poster to stick up. Irony that we were printing posters in the office to stick up on the wall to say, recycle your paper above the things. So like ridiculous. But that's when it all started. So I had a kind of crash course in it at that point because I had to help him internally, drive a different site, turn your lap wouldn't have laptops, then turn your computers off. When you go home from work, let's save electricity, reuse water. So that's when it first came on my radar and I thought it was quite interesting. And so that was a big crash. Of course, sustainability,'cause we started having charity of the year and all that kind of thing. I then jumped from there to go to. Help a friend rebuild her PR agency. So both of us have had kids relatively young. I was 28 when I had Lily. She was the same. Doesn't seem young now, but in those days it wasn't totally okay to have kids and work'cause how are you gonna do that kind of thing. We won, I have to say that we won a Canne Lion while working with young babies. So there you go. But neither of us could get there'cause they told us about it. The first time ever they told us we'd won it the day of the awards to see if one of us could fly out. How do you fly out for the baby? Wasn't gonna happen anyway. So that was all happening. And then Eco Age became a client and we were both working, trying to run a business, trying to rebuild it, paying people's salaries and everything. There's a lot of stress on that when you do that to try and build something. So we just decided amicably that I would go in-house with Eco Age and that she'd keep Golden Goose PR then it didn't need to expand. It could just continue doing the incredible creative work it was doing. So that's when I then went headfirst in sustainability with Eco Age, which is the firm that was founded by Olivia Firth. Initially when she was married to Colin, and Colin got nominated for the Oscar for the first time. I think it's for the King speech, or was it the Tom Ford film? One or the other. And Lucy Siegel said to her at the time, are you gonna walk the talk? So you keep talking about sustainable fashion, you keep saying all these things. Are you actually going to wear? Something sustainable on the red carpet. And she did. And that's where it all started from. And that's when Eco Age was born and the Green Carpet Challenge and everything that she's doing. As it continued, brands started, not a lot, but a few brands started approaching Eco Age in fashion saying, can we work with you to make our outfits more sustainable? So Puma, I think was the first one And then the watch brand jewelry brand came on board. So it started to shift that there was a market for sustainable fashion at that point. And that was really our focus was luxury, sustainable fashion. Because. It was a way to use the red carpet as one of the world's best platforms to story tell. So that's why the focus was in luxury. And that continued for 14 years and we did various different clients. And then two years ago, no, Last year. My god, time goes so fast, doesn't it? We found out that our finance director had been stealing all the money outta the business. If you want to talk about one of the most challenging situations ever, he had he stole all the money outta the business, and so we had to close overnight

Speaker: 5:03

as if working in a. Business based on sustainability isn't challenging enough and somebody else, and does that's just, incredibly bad luck.

Speaker 2: 5:12

Oh, a hundred percent. Especially as it Eco Age felt more of a family. So it's been a kind of grieving process, it's 14 years of your life,

5:19

How much was, Livia an inspiration to you working with her?

Speaker 2: 5:22

I have worked with her for 14 years and I would call her one of my very close friends. She, we've done everything together. We've traveled together, we've gone to Bangladesh, we've done supply chain trips. We've been to the Amazon. We've shared bedrooms, we've had crazy adventures. We've done really insane things. We couldn't be two more opposite people. So we're incredibly different, but somehow that. Magic worked together brilliantly in terms of a working relationship and a friendship. and do you know what credit to her she takes a lot. She takes a lot of criticism She didn't have to do any of this, but she firmly believes in that there's a different way of doing things and it can be a better world.

Speaker: 6:04

I think, there's obviously similarities with you as well. I think you're both. Prepare to stick your head above the para pit. And I think you're both, fire starters So I think that's probably why you got on so well.

Speaker 2: 6:15

Yeah. We're not scared to do that and in very different ways she'll front it and I'm more happy behind the scenes. And we to still to this day, we're still working together, and I think for me, watching her go through that process that year. I had nothing but respect for her. I think if I took anything away from that, more than anything, like seeing what goes on behind the scenes and what happens at that point, we should all just be a bit kinder.

Speaker: 6:38

Yeah, I agree. let's talk about For Tomorrow and what happened after Eco Age and how it came about and your purpose and the type of people you work with.

Speaker 2: 6:48

the day after the EQH closed, I phoned Olivia and I said, listen, I refuse to let one man get rid of all the good work we've done over 14 years. It seemed crazy, like we would just stop. What happens, you can't just stop. So I said I wanna open up again, as For Tomorrow, make it smaller and just focus on the stuff we wanted to do because I had the opportunity then to take it in the direction I wanted to go in at that point. So the things that I love doing, we'd already decided to change the Green Carpet Fashion Awards into the Threads Of Change. So like working with you on that, doing a hundred people dinner, celebrating really good stories instead, and then really taking it away from For Tomorrow is about, let's not talk about issues and sustainability all the time. Let's talk about really cool things that are happening. Let's work with great brands that wanna do things. Let's talk about great projects. Let's not talk about, doom and gloom and. The same stats and get stuck in a hole.'cause we'll just, we might as well just be sat on the same panel in the same room that we were doing 10 years ago.

Speaker: 7:45

And I think that your PR background definitely comes out in the way that you work with people rather than data.

Speaker 2: 7:53

I like people. I think we have fun. I think work should be fun. that's the clash of the two worlds, isn't it? Sustainability. They have a very analytical brain. They love a spreadsheet. They're brilliant that, I have nothing but in awe of their brains.'cause they can sit there and just crunch through data and it's amazing. But how do you take that data and turn it into something that's exciting and digestible.

Speaker: 8:13

And that other people care about, that's the thing, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 8:16

Yeah. And I can see from their side as well, having worked with them for years, it's like you've, spent hours and you've poured your love into this data and you've pulled it through and it is important, but everyone else will just go, oh my God, it's a massive spreadsheet. Just some figures and some percentages. And so how do you turn it into something everyone else cares about, but also showing that hard work that individual's gone through to Get it to that point.

Speaker: 8:39

I think that's the one thing that we've noticed working with people like yourself is that there's a gap between those people and the marketing people and the consumer or whoever the end audience are and someone needs to join together those gaps so that we can turn that data into something that people care about and want to take action,

Speaker 2: 8:59

and then you are proud of your data being used in that way.'cause you can drive past the billboard and go, I did that.

Speaker: 9:04

So in terms of setting up For Tomorrow, what's been the most significant challenge that you've faced? Or ongoing challenge that you're still facing?

Speaker 2: 9:14

Oh, if I'm really honest, not saying yes to everything. That's a really hard one. And I think the other uncomfortable thing is valuing your time, which I'm still not good at. I'll do everything for everybody. I'd love to do everything for free. And it's I actually have to make money at some point and people. I find time, one of the hardest things for people to value, that what they want is results, but results take time as well. And that's my time investing into doing it for them. PR doesn't work in the same way anymore. You can't just send out a press release and expect everyone to be front page of the telegraph the next day. And so I think that's one of the things with learning how to do PR differently. So rather than just sending out press releases, because you've gotta think it from a journalist point of view as well, they're getting them left right, center all the time. So it's really gotta stick out. It's gotta be a newsworthy story. And so how can you curate environments where brands get together with journalists so they become known and you can understand a story in a more organic environment rather than this kind of hurling press releases left front and center.

Speaker: 10:18

Yeah, setting up those environments and those experiences. That doesn't happen overnight either, does it?

Speaker 2: 10:23

No. and I found that part of it is like, how do you, so we've, and I'm really lucky'cause of the reputation we've got in a network from Eco Age in that 14 years. So we are able to do that. We've done a few at one hotel, but. We're setting them up for people, but we are also having to invest in it'cause it's time and it's also costs money, the photographers and things like this to have people in that room. But things do happen from good networks. So I do think more is gonna be based on networks and people meeting and seeing eyeball to eyeball with someone who's doing a great story as opposed to it being on a piece of paper.

Speaker: 10:58

And do you think that there's a general attitude that anything to do with climate change or sustainability should be done at a reduced rate? Yeah. Something different to working, for commercial or service or a product. Yeah. So it feels like people would think it should be done like charity work

Speaker 2: 11:14

I guess it is charity work, isn't it? That's what people think sustainability is.

Speaker: 11:17

But I do think we need to give it the importance and the value that it deserves.

Speaker 2: 11:21

Yeah. Imagine if we had the budgets to be able to go and do something really cool There's organizations like Clean Creatives, which are trying to get. PR agencies, creative industries, to move away from working with the big kind of fossil fuel, big brands and things like that. But that's hard, And you end up not really talking to them, but going to their events and talking to the same people who are already converted. and so I really value what they're doing. I think it's really important, but again it's that activist movement and at what point do we need to move that activist movement into, but I'd love to get into Shell, which is really controversial, but I'd love to work with them. But sometimes I feel that my role now is to change from within, because we're not gonna switch oil off tomorrow either.

Speaker: 12:05

we've struggled with this sort of dichotomy at Blast for a few years in terms of, when you think of sustainability, you think of small startups start from the ground up with, fantastic purpose and B Corp status But really we realize that. Working with some of the people that are doing the most damage to help them is gonna make the most difference. But it's, it is really difficult because it's hard.

Speaker 2: 12:28

cause now I feel nervous. I've said I'd love to work with Shell, do you know what I mean? It's also feels wrong. It's a really weird feeling, isn't it? Because I don't know what is the right thing to do. And if we don't do things like that, then it's the Edelmans and the big agencies like the big agencies in your world as well. He will always have all the cash

Speaker: 12:47

So what are you most proud of in terms of your own, or For Tomorrow's sustainability efforts? Are there any standout milestones or projects you've done so far?

Speaker 2: 12:58

I am proud that we're still going a year on. Because it's tough. It's really tough out there to get big things and do cool things. I love the fact that we did the Tommy Tippy website. We did all the copy for that at the beginning. I love the fact that, there's so many things that we've done. It's just like being able to be at Blue Earth Summit, being able to do these things, being able to advise people, and I think strategic advisory in terms of comms is where. I'm happiest at the moment with the PR and everything. PR is super hard. But we've managed it. We've got the network, we've got everyone out there. We've got incredible support that has been behind us the whole time. That, that's really kept us going. I think there's so many. I'm the biggest cha going back to the challenge as well, when I was think about that is that in this current environment, everyone is a sustainability expert and everyone does sustainability communications and everyone does this and everyone does that. And it's oh my God, I feel sometimes overwhelmed. And you suddenly get imposter syndrome going, oh my God, so many other people can do this. Maybe they're better. And then you remember that. I've been doing it for 14 years. There's not a lot we don't know. and I think my firsthand experience as well is I've been to Bangladesh I've been to the Amazon, we've seen the leather supply chain. We've gone through the whole thing. Been to Botswana, working with the Diamond mine out there. Worked with na. I spoke to her the other day. I love her. She runs the diamond line. There's not a lot we haven't done it's so much experience and so much that you have, which is why I couldn't let it all go. It's like I have to do something with this 14 years worth of knowledge,

Speaker: 14:27

and that's why people wanna work with you. That's why you're so busy. That's why you've been waiting for weeks for you to come on our podcast. let's move on. Let's talk about state of fashion. Oh yeah. As it's an industry that obviously you've spent a lot of your career working in. So I'm gonna jump to asking you if you can try and define sustainability in fashion. I know that's a big question. And what sort of unique challenges does the industry face?

Speaker 2: 14:57

sustainability and fashion used to be, Hey, let's do a collection that's a bit greener. And I think over the last 14 years, it's really developed into being, I mean by the nature of the world, sustainability, we mean having a world in the future, like sustain it has to be able to sustain the future as a business, as an industry. And I think now that's looking at. Fashion is an entire ecosystem, and actually that ecosystem touches every single industry pretty much on this planet. You're going from agriculture for cotton and wool and leather. Mining when you've got oil and gas for polyester all the way through to end of life when the clothes are being dumped out in Ghana and places like that, microplastics in the ocean. We're polluting everything from land to water. It's a brilliantly broken system And I think when you have something that's so entrenched and it's been going for so long. Unpicking that system, is it's now impossible.

Speaker: 15:55

where do you think the industry's at the moment in terms of either reinventing it or on its sustainability journey?

Speaker 2: 16:02

It's one of those things I don't want to be like negative. I don't think much has changed in the last 10 years. I read a stat the other day, which really shocked me, and I think this is one of the problems, the brightest graduates get picked up immediately for those kind of'cause they're high salaries into like oil and gas, banking, finance, all that kind of thing. They've gone and they're the brightest minds we have. If we could put some of those brightest minds into some of these roles in terms of sustainability and solving some of the world's biggest problems, and we put that money behind it to show that it was as important, I reckon we could be seeing a different place right now, but the money's not there. The investment's not there. It's all slight tokenism it is almost like, when you say about climate change, oh there's nothing I can do about it. So it's, it is oh my God, we've gotta report. So let's just get the sustainability team to be reporting and we look like we've done better'cause we've got rid of a bit. So we're fine. We're fine. And I think that that's really important for. no, I think not important. I think it's demoralizing for the sustainability teams who are trying, they're really good people. They're trying really hard within the businesses they're working in, but it's not impossible for them. so I was saying I have nothing but respect for people who work in sustainability and go to,'cause someone was saying before, something like, Coca-Cola's terrible, don't go and work for Coca-Cola, And I'm like. But they should, they're better off doing that working within Coca-Cola than they are not working.

Speaker: 17:24

if they think that they can make a difference and somebody needs to try. Certainly.

Speaker 2: 17:28

Yeah, exactly. And if we don't try, then what are we doing? We're just saying carry on.

Speaker: 17:32

Yeah. The online space is awash with people and organizations talking about problems with fast fashion. And the industry is over reliance on fossil fuels. Both in terms of fibers that they use and powering the industry. But those problems still remain. So I've been thinking if everyone agrees what's wrong with the industry, why is dealing with the problem? Glac is slow. You know what, what needs to happen to make real change?

Speaker 2: 18:01

Collaboration. I also think it's too much. If you are a CEO, whether your heart's in the right place or the wrong place or whatever, you going to be the one who's not gonna make profit'cause you've reinvested everything in it. It's a two year or three year tenure. You know that's a brave person who does that. And that's the reality. I'm not, whether that's right or wrong, that's how we've set up a capitalistic society. Money talks, if you are rich, you can buy yourself a seat at any table you want to be in. I thought Billie Eilish said it brilliantly yesterday? She was at the Wall Street Journal award. She was awarded something and she said I'm paraphrasing this, it's online. You can see afterwards she said. Thank you so much for this. There's some of you in this room who've got more money than me. She goes, and so maybe we should give it away to people who need it. And then she said, and if you're a billionaire, why are you a billionaire? Give it away shorties. Which I thought was really cool. And I think that's part of the problem we have in this world, and we keep saying it, but a billionaire could, Hey, you give away. They can't spend all their money. So why wouldn't there are solutions out there that need to be funded and no one will fund them?'cause they're too expensive. So why we can't create a fund in the middle somewhere that is It's not owned by anybody. It can just do it and fund these solutions because otherwise they cost too much to scale. There's barriers to entry. No one really wants to be the first. really, they'd rather be the second when it's tried by somebody else. And so what these brands are doing is they're taking solutions and they're incubating them, and then nothing happens. And actually it's a topic we were gonna discuss with my client, Isaac, the industrial sewing center in Detroit. They're an NGO who is set up to basically de-risk innovation in the fashion manufacturing system. And it's brilliant what they're doing. So she's created an incredible factory and it's really light. And so there's two main things she's doing. One is the healthy workspace, so retraining people to work in manufacturing because, especially topical at the moment.'cause in the US they've got no manufacturing and they need to have more. It's just. Gone. So retraining but showing how a workforce can be super effective and still have a quality workplace to work in and ownership and things like that. And also they have the machines. So they, so for example, they work with Carhartt and they create the beanies so they can try on new techniques. And when the techniques work, you can then take that and replicate it. They're gonna help replicate it in the factories that you have. De-risking innovation is amazing, but, it is hard. That's a hard conversation to have. People don't want it.

Speaker: 20:36

Is that in collaboration with somebody?

Speaker 2: 20:39

No, they're doing it they're funded by foundations, the Ford Foundation. They're in Detroit. So they've got that and they need more partners to work with. So really getting brands to work with them now is really important. It's an amazing thing and rather than talking about sustainability in fashion and doing things like that, the next podcast we should do is why is innovation not scaling in the fashion industry?

Speaker: 20:58

definitely. would you like to say anything else about partnerships before we move on?

Speaker 2: 21:03

I love our partnership. And it meant a lot, to have someone, when you start up on your own and you've got nothing, to have someone step in and say, Harriet, please don't do one of your terrible self drawn things. We'll help you out and do this.'cause it means something to us that's super valuable. they're the kind of partnerships that work when someone's willing to support you through the bad and you are aligned in thinking and want to do great things together. That's really important.

Speaker: 21:26

It also means something to us as well, and it means something to the people that work in our business. They feel like they're really contributing. And as you said before, it's difficult to say no to things, but A lot of the projects that you are involved in and we've been involved in too are really interesting. They're more fascinating. They're more innovative. they seem to have more possibilities And I've

Speaker 2: 21:45

got so many projects that we could do if we could just find funding. my mission is still to get the farmers of the world up and running.

Speaker: 21:54

We'll put this podcast out into the world and see what funding comes back from it.

Speaker 2: 21:57

Yay. We need 20,000 pounds to do it. It's like the humans of New York, but farmers of the world. So the idea being that we're de westernizing, the kind of sustainability native that we have. Giving them a voice because around the world, they've all got solutions. They all care. They don't not care about what they're doing, they really do care. But we have this impression of, oh, let's make all our laws and rules up in Europe and then go and impose them on another country. it's not one rule fits all.

Speaker: 22:25

So who would be your ideal partner for this project? You just put it out there, who would you like to pay for it?

Speaker 2: 22:34

I'll take money from anybody for it. Anybody who cares enough to put their money into something where they're not gonna get a financial return on their investment, but they're putting it into really changing narratives within the industry. Because it comes with a bit of lobbying with a website, with social media, with TikTok and with events, which would be really cool.

Speaker: 22:54

This is quite a big question but I'd like to ask you about the general status of sustainability communications in fashion or elsewhere. Where do you think we are at? Are people listening or is there so much torque that it just washes over people

Speaker 2: 23:12

I think we live in a world of this is a really hard one. What do we mean by sustainability communications? Is it really a thing? Is it just communications And I think it's fallen into a trap of people think it's boring. And I think that's one of the things I'm so passionate about. It's if you go down a doom and gloom thing of the world's ending. You switch off and then people have got climate apathy, climate anxiety, climate, whatever. if you put out a questionnaire saying, do you care about the planet, everyone's gonna tick. Yes. And then if you say, but are you still gonna buy from h and m and machine? They're still gonna tick yes. Plus they care. But the way we're doing it is not working. and it's more how do we create engaging communications that aren't boring, that aren't worthy, that make it cooler? And it is. The kids are now buying loads on vintage working. I think it needs to become part of the education at school. I think they need to know why this is happening. And see it from the side.'cause they don't get it. but it's not told from their mindset.

Speaker: 24:19

I think we definitely need to be more solution based rather than problem based.'cause like you said, everybody knows what the problem is, but if you can opt people an alternative that they can actually practically. Take then that's more positive, changing the narrative.

Speaker 2: 24:37

when I was at Blue Earth Summit and at New York Climate Week, and over the last few months, I found out about so many more brands, which are my next generation coming through doing really cool things like Id janene their watches. They're trained swish, watchmakers, like properly trained They didn't wanna go and work in a watch house, so they set up their own brand. And it's all ethical and they're challenging the status quo, and they're doing really cool stuff and he's just got investment by Leonardo DiCaprio, and so that's a cool brand. Then you've got Ocean Bottle. We're doing a really cool project with them next year. That's totally top secret, but it'll be really exciting. They're challenging the status quo. They wanna do things differently. they're the things that make me want to get up and carry on working. How do we make, how do we make sustainability communications as engaging and creative as possible so that we win a Cannes Lion next year?

Speaker: 25:30

when we work together, we talk about credibility and creativity. Yeah. So the idea that, you need both to make an impact and. You provide to us, you provide the credibility because you have the knowledge, you have the experience you know how to tackle the problem, and then you bring that narrative to us and we'll communicate it in an original way that stands out and that makes people take notice. Do you think that is valuable to a client

Speaker 2: 26:03

I think it's really important for a client, because you can have the most creative advert in the world, but if it's not credible, then it is the most reputationally damaging thing possible. Look at the, what are the examples? The there was a t-shirt that Elle Magazine did once. It was a, I'm a feminist or something written on the front and everyone wore it. Emma Watson wore a t-shirt. Loads of people wore the t-shirt, but it turned out that it was made by women on slave labor in Bangladesh. You have to have done your checks and actually think about it. I remember once there was a brand that wanted Olivia to wear a t-shirt for an event and it was organic cotton. And we said, but What wages do you pay in the factory? Are they made? Oh no. That's not the story. That's not the story. It's all about the organic cotton farm and everything. It's yeah, but what do you pay the wages? What wages do you pay in the factory in Turkey where you make it? And they just wouldn't tell us. Because it was, they wouldn't even let us know which factory it was or anything. And it's like they could have been paying the wage, they said they were, and it was all authenticated. we need that question answered because it's a reputational risk to them as much as it's to Olivia at that point. It is a real danger. And I think that is, again, an example of how secretive the world of fashion still is.

Speaker: 27:19

So going forward, what do you think is the most effective way of moving the needle or influence, influencing people, creating action, how do you think that people like you and I, the creative industries can help? Push that sustainability agenda to the point where change actually happens. Is there anything that you thought that this is how we do it?

Speaker 2: 27:46

I think we need to do more dinners where we get people around the table and we talk to'em about it, and then they can talk about their issues. Like, why can't we get budget? Why can't we do a cool campaign. Like I think the Nat Gala that Gail Galley did at New York Climate Week was really cool. I think she's did something and I think she's on, she's she's trying to make nature investible. So she's got this whole thing and she's taking it to investors and high net worth individuals and things like that, which is super cool. And raising money. It's a shame that she has to go all way out there to try and tell people that nature's investible. But hey, that's where we are. and I think the only way we do that is through meeting people and chatting to them.

Speaker: 28:26

and we have got the creative power to do it. And there, there are enough good creative agencies and people around that would happily put their heads together. Yeah, pro bono and do this. it's one thing I raised actually at one of the Clean Creatives dinners that I was at, that they were talking about how to stop, agencies working with fossil fuel companies. And I said why don't all us creative agencies get together and build the best fucking. Campaign that's ever been created and make it so that they just can't,

Speaker 2: 29:01

Maybe we have to, everything's about scarcity at the moment, isn't it? everyone loves being part of a club that other people can't get into, like a special club. Maybe we have to, rather than being seen as an activist organization, maybe we have to create a really cool club that you can only get into with certain credentials and certain things where all the biggest creatives are there, the biggest brains, everything. It's almost like a shared hub where if you've got an issue, whatever, you can take it to the creative

Speaker: 29:24

So you have to fight to get in. You have to, your ideas have to be so good That you can get in. I like it.

Speaker 2: 29:31

I do think there's something to be said in scarcity though, like being able to create something that is, that feels really special. People like it, they like to be invited to something.

Speaker: 29:41

Let's build it. Looking to the future what's next For Tomorrow? Are there any big goals that you've got or upcoming projects? Yeah,

Speaker 2: 29:50

so wanna do Threads Of Change next year? Can you

Speaker: 29:53

tell us, can you talk a little bit about what Threads Of Change is?

Speaker 2: 29:57

Yeah, so Threads Of Change is the evolution of the Green Carpet Fashion Awards, and when we were doing the Green Carpet Fashion Awards, they were amazing. They were really big and it was all exciting. But it felt like the world didn't need it. No one needs a really high expensively done thing And so we changed it to a hundred person dinner. And the idea is to have, it's going back to its Italian roots. The idea is that the best things happen when you're sitting down and breaking bread together. So putting in the room businesses, celebrities, influencers, activists new up and coming brands, and finding two or three or four that we want to celebrate as well in evening, who can, we can showcase. But making that moment where you've basically mixed up the room and everyone's equal at two long tables together. That makes me happy because you are, this is the issue I had and I felt it a bit in New York as well. You have panels, you have hierarchy. And it doesn't feel like in a world, like why should someone be more important than me? Just because they're in the top of their job and they're richer. Ultimately that's what it is. And everyone falls around them and they get this weird sense of, I'm really important. And putting everyone around the table equally takes that away. It's very equalizing. And I think that is, that's how we have to go in order to try and drive change within the industry. All industries, in fact.

Speaker: 31:20

what happens after those dinners? What happens after those conversations?

Speaker 2: 31:25

so I need to write out what happened from this year as well. Like the conversations that happened, the networks of things and the projects that other people have found. So it's not for us. The other people have found to work on together from it. And where they've connected and who they've connected with and how change is happening within there. So basically, we're curating a room of individuals who should meet, who should get to know each other because they have the power to do projects together. And then You are not just sending an email saying, hi, it's me, you don't know me, but I want to do this. And we're like, which, like how many times? It's nine outta 10, they get ignored. But if you're having dinner. And you're chatting about it, that person suddenly goes, oh my God, that's a great idea. I love it. Let's connect. Let's meet. I think that's where we've had most success, certainly I have in life, is through networking and connections and just being nice. Sometimes nothing comes, but if you're nice and you're open, things come in the future.

Speaker: 32:20

So if you could if you could achieve one major sustainability breakthrough What would that be?

Speaker 2: 32:26

I'm working on something and I can't tell you. If it comes off, you'll be the first to know, but it's with a lawyer that I met a while ago and it's, we hopefully will structure something so cool. It can change everything. Not everything, but that would be kind, that's a massive claim. I'm gonna change everything. But it would start to find a way that hopefully we can find solutions to the investment.

Speaker: 32:53

And has this come from some of your conversations that you've been having around the world?

Speaker 2: 32:58

Yeah, so this came from a panel that I did randomly And then we met for lunch afterwards. We chatting with that and we carried on chatting and we met yesterday and went, wow, yeah, this is what we should do.

Speaker: 33:08

That sounds amazing.

Speaker 2: 33:09

I can tell you more when we have it down because then you can do the whole creative around it.

Speaker: 33:14

Brilliant. I know that you are big on I

Speaker 2: 33:16

thought you were gonna ask me if I was gonna be big on TikTok.

Speaker: 33:19

I know that you're big on working with influencers and people to, get a voice out to people. And if I was to ask you who would be your ideal ambassador or influencer For Tomorrow? Can be anybody dead or alive? Who would it be? You ready?

Speaker 2: 33:36

Stacey Solomon. and I think this is coming round to everything we've spoken about on this call. She doesn't need to be a spokesperson. Sustainability. What I would really like to do, and I'm passionate about, is getting into them and talking to them about the issue. So if you're gonna do a fashion collection, it's not their fault. She'll drink the Kool-Aid because they're telling her amazing stuff.'cause the brand wants a deal. I would love to help just advise on. Of the issues and she has such a massive following, people believe what she says. So she did one little post about these are things we should think about at end of life. I'm taking these to be recycled. Did you know that our trackit down the planet forever? Let's not buy one more or let's do this, or something like that. That's when real change starts happening within the consumers. That's not gonna be, like a charity campaign or an NGO opening something out is, Stacey says that people listen. Yesterday she said, do people get really annoyed about me putting out affiliate links? But I found some really good deals and I went to put out there and someone was trolling me saying, is this just affiliate link things or whatever. And it's great. Their products, they by anyway, with discounts on. But if she also said at the same time, I'm not trying to encourage you to buy more, but if you were gonna buy it, here is a link to do something discounted that is more affordable. But just that nuance in wording, I think would have a massive change rather than here's links, here's some. And she's great. She, and I know her heart's in the right place'cause she does like small businesses and things like that. But it's just the nuances and how can you understand something if you haven't been in, we know it because we've been immersed in it for so long.

Speaker: 35:13

So Stacey, like I would like

Speaker 2: 35:14

Netflix to do a TV show with us where I can take Stacey to on some supply chain trips.

Speaker: 35:21

So Stacey, if you're out there, if you're listening, Get in touch with Harriet and

Speaker 2: 35:26

it'll be fun and it won't be bad. And it should never be about telling people off or day, anything like that. It should be about how do we win some of these really powerful people She probably doesn't feel like she has any, she's just a mom, but she has the ability to help, even in a small part, like one element of the supply chain she could take an interest in. And that would help change that area.

Speaker: 35:48

Brilliant. And she can start by decluttering your diary. Organization.

Speaker 2: 35:53

Don't, the entire world has just gone, thank God he said it.'cause we've been trying for ages.

Speaker: 35:58

I think that's a great way to finish. Thanks so much for making time to come on and onto the podcast, Harriet. We really appreciate it and we really look forward to seeing what influence For Tomorrow has on the world going forward.

Speaker 2: 36:12

Thank you as well. It's been brilliant. It's been fun.