The Techno Optimist: Rethinking fashion through innovation

In this episode, Giff is joined by Ann Claes, co-founder of Masjien, a technology and sustainability agency working at the crossroads of fashion, innovation and systems change.

Ann shares her journey through fashion production, business development and mentorship, and why she now describes herself as a “techno optimist”. She explains how Masjien challenges the status quo by using technology in two ways: to accelerate sustainability and to help creativity flourish.

The conversation digs into what’s really slowing fashion down, from the speed and volume of consumerism to how hard it’s become to keep sustainability on the agenda. Ann unpacks why storytelling and emotion matter, how tools like digital product passports can make sustainability communication more engaging, and how to balance inspiration with transparency to avoid greenwashing.

We also dive into TURBO, Masjien’s sandbox project for “stacking” technologies into a strategic toolbox, plus what it takes to move innovation from interesting to adopted.

Key topics covered:

• Ann’s path into sustainability, tech and fashion
• Techno optimism and reframing sustainability communication
• Why storytelling and “love brands” matter more than ever
• Credibility, transparency and avoiding greenwashing
• TURBO as a sandbox for stacking technology strategically
• Change management, cross-team buy-in and collaboration

Looking for fresh ways to make your sustainability message stand out?

Download Blast’s free guide, 5 Ways to Unearth Big Ideas for Successful Sustainability Campaigns, at bright-ideas.blast.co.uk — it’s full of practical ways to develop ideas that are original, on-brand, and effective.

If you’re ready to take the next step, book a call with our team to discuss your project: https://calendly.com/blastdesignlondon/intro-video-call-clone.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:37

I'm joined today by Anne Klass. I met Anne at the end of last year, and she invited BLAST to partner on Turbo, an exciting and innovative project that she's been developing, but more of that later. Anne is a self-described techno optimist, a connector of people and ideas, and the co-founder of Machine, a technology and sustainability agency operating at the crossroads of fashion, innovation, and systems change. With more than two decades of experience across business development, advisory and board roles in fashion, Anne brings both strategic insight and very practical understanding of how change actually happens. Anne, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Hello. Nice to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Let's start at the beginning, as we always do. Can you tell us a bit about your personal journey and what led you to focus on sustainability, innovation, and technology in fashion?

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yes. As you already mentioned, over two decades, uh yeah, fashion has always been a passion, I would say. I always knew I wanted to uh to work in the specific area. Um but I have been finding my own path uh throughout different uh areas in the beginning. I even started in production, so uh actually collaborating with the manufacturers, etc. So uh that was my very first steps, and then later on I moved more into uh business development, uh marketing communication, uh setting up different partnerships, uh specific projects, and then I worked for 10 years at uh Flanders Fashion Institute, later uh Flanders DC, which is uh similar to like a fashion council specifically in Belgium, uh, where I have been uh coordinating the fashion department, I have been mentoring a lot of uh young creators um for future-proof entrepreneurship. Um, and there uh both sustainability and technology uh, of course, also came uh on the agenda, and I found out that these are areas that interest me a lot. Um so after a small uh first entrepreneurial hint as a side project where I've been setting up um a digital fashion network called Mutiny, uh, together with Chayley Harrison. So this was my first entrepreneurial adventure, I would say, um developing uh purely digital uh fashion, selling them as NFTs on blockchain, etc., this uh era in uh 2021. And this gave me this first spark of entrepreneurship, of yeah, of doing things differently. So after 10 years at the council, um, I decided to become independent and I started to collaborate with uh Yasmin Weenant, who is the co-founder of our agency, of Machine, because she was my colleague for seven years already. Before we have been working uh very well together uh before. And she is uh, of course, the sustainability expert in our team, where I focus a little bit more on innovation and technology. Uh, and that's where we found each other and launched Machine now two and a half years ago.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

That's great. And as I said in my intro, you often describe yourself as a techno-optimist, uh, which I love as a phrase. So, what does that mean to you and what makes you particularly optimistic?

SPEAKER_00 4:07

I think it's uh yeah, just to be clear, it's not a term I invented uh myself. It's a it's a general uh way of looking at at technology and a true belief that it can create change and and create a positive impact. Because, as always, I think there are always two sides of the coins. And so technology definitely also has um yeah, it's dangers, it's its challenges. Uh, but I always wish to look at the bright side of things. I think it's also mainly um yeah, or or maybe a personal um way of looking at things, of being enthusiastic and and passionate about creating change in a positive way. Um, specifically also on the level of sustainability, very often also in the past, it has been a topic that is, yeah, of course, a lot of things are happening, a lot of challenges. We are moving uh into a direction that is that is not uh looking good. So um very often communication about it, everything has been more on the uh warning side and and the highlighting the bad side of things. And uh with machine, we really try to turn it around and and show that there we love this sector, that's why we are working in fashion. We believe that there are opportunities to enjoy fashion, uh, but we can definitely do things better. And yeah, looking at these things in a very optimistic way, um, specifically then when technology can create this change even better or faster or or differently, um, yeah, is the specific area where I focus on.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Just from the the time that we've been working together and with Jasmine as well, I can definitely tell that that optimism and that joy of what you do definitely comes through. And that really resonates with with what we do at Blast as well. Um, I just wanted to ask, you said you didn't invent the phrase, but have you met any other people that describe themselves in the same way?

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Not that I know of, no. I think it's uh it's yeah, it's something that's that I came across a while ago, and I've been using it more and more, and I can also feel it really yeah, resonates with people, and it's it also because it's quite difficult to describe what I actually do. Even my my boyfriend cannot explain what I do because we do so many different things. Um but we always use different formats, different ways of of implementing this true belief, I would say. So this is yeah, it's more this yeah, this core message that I want to get across. And then I use a lot of different projects and and formats to uh yeah, to actually uh make it happen, or yeah, have other people uh look at things the way I look at them, maybe, and and try to share this uh enthusiasm uh for change.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

I think it's great. I think it's it's a really lovely shorthand for something that's actually quite complicated. And that again, that that's something that really appeals to us because that that's what we try and do a lot of the time for people as well. So you've worked across brands, institutions, networks, and advisory roles. So you've seen the system from multiple angles. So let's zoom out a little bit and talk about machine and the bigger mission behind it. So, for anyone new to machine, how would you describe what you do and the change that you're trying to make happen?

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Uh, I think also uh one of our core baselines is pushing buttons and boundaries and challenging the status quo. So it's it's really looking at the sector as we know it today and see where we can create change uh to push more purpose, to push uh a positive impact. Um, for me, specifically on technology and innovation, I focus on two areas. So, on one, where can it accelerate sustainability, and the other one is where can it make creativity flourish? Because I think also technology is giving us uh tools and opportunities to be more creative in so many ways. Um, so these are like two big areas that I uh I usually uh work on. Um, and what we actually do is quite uh diverse. So indeed we do consultancy, we work with different uh companies and brands, but we also work a lot with institutions, with uh governments, with fashion councils, fashion weeks, how to bring this topic alive. Um, so we always like to say like we want to inspire people, we want to spark conversations, and for that, we also um like to set up certain ecosystems to connect people in a very personal way, but also to create opportunities so people can actually meet each other, see each other's work, um learn more about what's happening out there in a very relevant and uh and specific way, I would say.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

And when you look at the industry today, what do you see as the biggest barriers stopping fashion from moving faster on sustainability?

SPEAKER_00 9:20

I think it's the the biggest challenge. I think it's it's a movement that we see already for for many years is the the speed and the quantity of consumerism. Everybody wants something new, everybody wants something different. Um, the value of of certain things, the value of creativity, but also the value of quality sometimes is yeah, is getting lost. When I I I tell my kids, for example, if you can buy uh some piece of clothing that that costs less than than a plate of spaghetti, something is wrong, you know. So this, yeah, I think it's a general movement that has made it quite difficult, both for the consumer, but of course also for brands and and people to create this offering that is on one hand, yeah, it needs to be fast and quick and consumed in a way, and on the other hand, how to create love brands and and build these stories. And there's so much noise also, um, cutting through the noise, getting these stories um yeah, right and and authentic. Um it also creates a lot of opportunities, but I think this is also yeah, probably one of the barriers to actually create this uh this movement. And then lastly, I think it's um today, even more. I feel like sustainability was never a hype. I hope it was never um a momentum, but at the same time, I feel that today it's becoming even more and more difficult to communicate about it and get across because for the last decade maybe it was something we felt everybody found very uh relevant and interested and wanted to know more about. And I feel that it's also um yeah, becoming more challenging to yeah, to keep it on the agenda, to keep it relevant, to keep it um yeah, on top of the of the communication uh pillars, I would say.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

That's interesting, and that that brings me nicely on to what I was going to talk about next, and and that was about how important is storytelling and communication in accelerating change, and what's what's maybe missing from how the industry typically talks about sustainability.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Yeah, I think in the end, is the same why I started in fashion is fashion has a certain way of giving people an identity, of adding to a dream, adding to emotion, uh, creating a certain yeah, atmosphere, or people are not buying clothes because they are naked or the closet is empty. No, they want to buy into a moment, they want to uh feel differently. It's and and I think this is yeah, this has sometimes yeah, get lost uh in a way because it's there is an over-offering, and and sometimes people do not know anymore like where to choose from. Um so storytelling is indeed a way to connect to this consumer even more. And and I think the whole concept of love brands is becoming even more and more important, of yeah, of truly connecting with um not only with the garment itself, but with yeah the identity, the story, the the values of the brands that um yeah, that belong or or that get across uh with the garments uh itself, I would say.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yeah, I mean, going back to what you were saying about what people expect now in terms of consumerism and speed and cost, the story is really important because the story is the thing which will maybe change someone's perspective and make them understand why things have to cost a certain amount and what what the expectations are for that and care enough to want to take that choice rather than what might seem like the easy choice, which is something which is fast and available and and and cheap, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Absolutely. Yeah, and I think there are also so many tools and opportunities today to actually do this enriched storytelling, I would say. Um, so of course, you have all kinds of uh social media and and the more traditional communication channels, but when I think also of innovations such as uh AR or even the digital product passports, uh connected products, um all these different kinds of innovations that can create new opportunities to enrich the storytelling and to create a better connection with the end consumer is a really exciting time, I think, to see like how can you get across to all your consumers in these different ways. But at the same time, be really authentic about it and have a very strong message and tone of voice. And I mean, that's what we love so much about Blast is that yeah, to actually get across a certain message, I think this is this is very, very important and very relevant uh today. And the consumer of today is also very well informed. So if it's not authentic, if it's not well designed, I think they see through the fog, I would say, if it's if it's not not authentic enough to really believe it.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yeah, and I think also picking up on what you said about innovations like the digital passport, a lot of people don't necessarily see that as traditional communication. But I think I think from our point of view, uh innovations like that um quite often can be quite dry and cold. And so storytelling is really important to make them culturally relevant and emotive and you know make make people care on a personal level. I think that's where we see a big role for communication because you can understand an idea and and feel nothing about it. Um you can follow the logic and still not care where it's going. Um especially maybe when the thing that you're you're building is is unfinished or technical or or still evolving, a bit like turbo. If people can't experience in some form, they won't believe in it early enough to engage with it. And without belief in something, then momentum quite often stalls. So design's job for us in kind of innovation um is not just to simplify the complexity, but to make it feel real enough to matter to people.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yeah, absolutely. And it's also indeed, as you say, technology is only a tool, uh, and and in the end, it's to get a certain message across and uh and to simplify it and to not make it more complicated than necessary. Um, it's very, very important because uh it's not by using uh buzzwords or or making things very complicated to look smarter or or whatever, is uh it's not what what we prefer at machine. We always try to yeah trickle it down into very understandable and very engaging uh ways of communicating and and transferring or enthusiasm because that's that's also where people are more connected and also start the conversations better, I would say.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Let's talk a little bit about credibility because vision is one thing, but trust is another. So, how do you communicate progress without tipping into greenwashing, um, especially when solutions and data are still evolving?

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Yeah, I think that's that's always a challenge because, on one hand, specifically when you work in in innovation, you want to share on what's new, what are the possibilities, and at the same time, you need to be transparent that sometimes things are still in the making, uh, the the famous uh curve, when are innovations in a hype cycle, where are they in the true of uh disillusionment and and getting ready for mainstream? I think I learned a lot because I, as I said, I was very active in the in the whole era of Web3, uh, innovation on digital fashion, virtual fashion. So I've seen it firsthand, like when are things moving fast, when are there certain hypes, when is it an innovation? Sometimes you also need to admit that certain implications were too soon or not ready or not the right uh fit. But on the other hand, what I always believe is that um I like to look at the mechanic of certain things, on the infrastructure behind it, what is this innovation, for example, actually trying to change, and then see if can we actually see a better fit or a better implementation. So, for example, looking back at Web3 and what blockchain was bringing as an infrastructure of trust, I still see opportunities today. It did not become the infrastructure for the creator economy as I saw it at that time. But now it has created for me, for example, uh a lot of inspiration and foundation for how I look at digital product passports today, because it can definitely enhance in a different way the same um bridge to a rich storytelling, to using this infrastructure to engage with people, but also to get more trusted and transparent uh in certain ways. And you have that with all kinds of technologies. Um, I think to communicate about it very openly is always uh important, not to sugarcoat it or, but on the other hand, yeah, to be inspirational, you also need to highlight these novelties. So I I feel uh find this balance is not always easy. Um again, transparent communication about it is is the most important, I think. And then it's also up to the to the listener or the brands that are going to implement these uh technologies. It's also up to them um to do their own research um and and to see is it a match for me, is it a match for my company, is it a match for my strategy? Because this is indeed also one of the of the key messages at uh at Turbo is to yeah, to do a curated, very strategic selection of the technology that is relevant for you and your company. And I think it's up to me to engage with the possibilities, the opportunities, and to showcase what are the possibilities. But then it's also, and that's indeed also something we we do sometimes together with the companies, but then you need to make the strategic decision. Is this relevant for me? But if you are not aware that it exists, you cannot make these kind of decisions. So for me, number one, I I coming back to techno-optimism, it's not about that. I want to make sure that everybody uses all the technology that is out there, but I want people to know it exists. Um, because don't forget, our sector is very, very conservative. They are not moving very fast. So there I see it's it's important that they know that things are moving and there are certain opportunities out there to create change. But of course, then the next step is to yeah to make the wise decisions and and start implementing them uh correctly.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Let's bring that thinking into something concrete and talk about turbo now. Uh so tell tell me what sparked the idea for turbo and what particular gap um were you trying to fill with it?

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Um so, first of all, I would like to say Turbo is a sandbox, which is uh a nice way of saying we don't know yet. For us, it's a playground. Um we have been working a lot on innovation, on sustainability, we see a lot of opportunities. Um, but we also like to actually work on these innovations, to implement them, to test them. Um so not only talking, but also walking the talk, I would say. So for us, Turbo has become um this playground, the sandbox to actually uh implement some innovations, but above all, it's also a manifesto, I would say, um, a clear message, uh maybe an accelerator to create change. So my main message now is to indeed to stack technology. How can you implement technology at best um to accelerate sustainability, to um make creativity flourish? But how can I do it in a very strategic way? How can technology enhance my company strategy, my communication strategy, my sustainability goals? Um, because I truly believe that implementing Technology at best and not one on the left and do a pilot on the right and do an experiment here and there, but to yeah, to curate um your own toolbox where one technology gives certain output and it becomes the input of the next. And then in this way you get even like a compound result, like one plus one becomes three. So it's becoming bigger, more relevant, um, a better system, creating this tech infrastructure to support your uh your company at best.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

It's a complex thing to explain. I'm sure you found that over the time that you've been doing it. So for people that are new to this, in simple terms, how would you describe it? You said it's a sandbox project, but how does it kind of manifest itself?

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Yeah, so at this moment, a little bit similar to what we do at Machine in in general, but this is then specifically more focused on uh innovation and technology. So for now, it's this main key message and even manifesto, as I just mentioned, but then we are uh implementing it in different ways. So for now, uh for example, uh, we have collaborated with Blast in developing not only the visual identity, but also to translate it into a keynote presentation. And this keynote presentation is of course uh engaging people uh with the uh messaging behind it, but it's also uh already the first uh network collaboration between different partners in implementing certain technologies that we are actually showcasing. So, for this, I have chosen not to set up a completely new brand because we do not want to push more products out there uh if if it's not necessary. So I have chosen to work with um a 90s uh iconic Belgian brand that does not exist anymore. It's called uh Zeno and Judy. They were known for fantastic uh leather jackets in this specific Y2K uh I would say uh look and feel. Um, and we have been implementing um different technologies such as 3D creation, digital product passport, virtual try-ons, uh, digital search uh on pre-loft, um, communication and storytelling. So all these different types of innovation we have implemented uh specifically on this um 90s collection. Because I truly believe that if you we see very often that there are, for example, trend watchers that do presentations with all the newest innovations, but by implementing them on one specific collection and then also connecting the different inputs and outputs of these technologies suddenly make it very understandable what it could mean for your own collection. Because you could actually see in the presentation, for example, we are implementing it on one specific red letter jacket, and you see this red leather jacket implemented in in all these different technologies. And in the end, the you you see the storytelling of the red letter jacket through these different technologies coming alive and and getting even uh this bigger results uh towards the end of the presentation. So, indeed, today it's um it has the shape of a keynote, uh, but I definitely see it as an accelerator of the network of different uh innovators, different technology providers, but also as a starting point for a community where we uh inspire, where we inform uh about innovation and technology specifically to uh to accelerate sustainability and circularity?

SPEAKER_01 26:32

One of the things that we worked with you on was actually showing that as a digital platform. So, you know, with a UI where it's somewhere that people can come and explore and find technologies and see practical examples and connect with other people. Is that still how you see it manifesting in the future?

SPEAKER_00 26:57

It's definitely an option we are still uh looking at. I think in general at Machine, we always do uh different uh types of projects. Uh so we have uh projects that are purely uh assignments, collaborations, uh projects that come on our path, and then we have our own projects that we develop because we think there is a need uh for them. Um so this is definitely one of these projects that is growing over time. So um it is something that is um yeah, that is taking uh the energy and and uh resources that we need to make it uh to make it happen. Um, but for example, previously we have been uh setting up an AI chatbot called uh Josie, uh, which is like uh your go-to person to um to check your communication and avoid greenwashing. So this is a project we have developed also from A to Z from uh from Machine Bottom Up. Uh and I think with Turbo we have a similar approach, um, with the difference that we want to create bridges to other opportunities. So bring more keynotes, but also bring it in different ways to a bigger audience. And yes, I think uh a platform could definitely uh help uh getting a bigger reach and uh and transmit the message.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

And from a purely personal perspective, what did creating a brand, messaging, a visual presence, and the prototype do for you in terms of enabling people to understand uh the project's the credibility and emotional connection to it? For instance, when you presented it at Berlin Fashion Week, how beneficial was that?

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Yeah, indeed, I think the first presentation we did was at Metamorphosis, the Dialogues of Change, an initiative from uh Fashion Council Germany and eBay. Um, it was an audience that is uh again very mixed of uh fashion brands, fashion entrepreneurs, designers, people working in the in the fashion system at large. And then it's always very important to get your message across in a very understandable way, but also in a very engaging way. And that's why the visual identity is definitely a very uh big aspect also of the messaging. So you need to uh bring this in a very engaging way, but also in a very understandable way. And what I liked so much about the presentation and also the tangible physical uh presentation we uh collaborated on is that it not only um supports the manifesto and the message behind it, but also actually translated it into how we visually got the message across. Um so, for example, the very dynamic uh identity um completely represents the the concept of a sandbox. It is um it is uh not only reflecting innovation and implementing the visual aspects, but also yeah, implementing technology with purpose uh in the identity itself. And then also, of course, from a more practical uh perspective, I really liked it a lot that we have been building this presentation in a way where um I can still be proactive, adapt certain parts of the presentation by adding in uh new partnerships, by adding new technologies and innovations, uh, but at the same time keep uh emphasizing on the core message, uh, which was designed uh so nicely and very understandably. So, yeah, this collaboration has brought um, I think a lot of uh insights on how to get um the message across, not purely by choosing nice colors or a good font, but also to yeah, how to build up the momentum of the messaging, how to yeah, use all the design tools as well to to support the the main message. Uh so this is very nice uh to understand that part.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

I think there's three things there. There's the understanding because it it's quite difficult to talk about, like you say, a sandbox project that's so experimental in a way that people can get their heads around without actually making it visual. So there's that kind of understanding, and then there's making it tangible, um, and then there's a kind of emotional side of it, which is getting people behind it and uh making people feel that it's real and that it's something that they want to be involved in as well. So, what do you think needs to happen to take Turbo to the next level? What's what's next for it?

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Uh on the short term, uh it's definitely uh spreading the you know optimism even more. So bringing the presentation and and the message um to different places, to different platforms, um, to all the people listening here that are setting up different events uh or opportunities, very welcome to collaborate on that. I think this is this is mainly um goal number one. And then secondly, I think we have started a very nice collaboration with some people who have this same way of looking at things, of creating change in our sector, creating a sector with more purpose and bring sustainability in a very tangible uh way. So I think it's also nice to see uh how we can collaborate between the different partners, bring on board even more uh partners or solutions um to create this change. And then looking into that, like what is the next format um that that would be most relevant? Is it an online platform? Is it going to be offline uh activations as well? Yeah, as we said, it's a sandbox, so it's in the making. And every time we see opportunities to see this as a next next goal, I think we uh we should dive into that.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Um presumably it needs somewhere along the line it needs some investment. So if do you want to make this a call out to in investors that are listening to uh to get in touch?

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Yes, I think uh what's what we have seen very often at at machine is indeed you always need budget and investors to work with certain things, but on the other hand, I think it's also uh important to to align very well on on what is the the exact goal and what do you want to achieve? And I think that's that's something we're still figuring out. Like what do we actually uh want to build? And does it need certain investments uh in a monetary way, or does it need mainly investment from people that align on the belief and and want to create this uh this change? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Sure. Um and let's zoom out again from Turbo um because many of our listeners are founders or leaders outside fashion, um, and the same principles apply across green tech and sustainability innovation more broadly. Um, so from your perspective, what helps innovation move from interesting to adopted?

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Change management, I would say. I think it's very important to have a good communication inside uh different part departments inside a company because we see that a lot of uh innovation, for example, is detected by certain innovation managers, sustainability managers, uh sometimes the CEOs if they are engaged as well. But very often to actually create change, you need to implement all the different departments inside a company. Um, when I have been uh mentoring so many companies in the past, I always describe like people do underestimate how complicated a fashion company is. Um, there are so many different aspects, and I say like it's it's like a little machine on its own with so many different buttons, and it's not only the style and the fit and the color and the price, but also is it delivered on time with the right communication in the right setting, etc. So that there are so many different aspects that define if a fashion company is actually successful, and bringing innovation and novelty and specifically to create purpose and impact on a sustainability level, we need so much more than just a sustainability manager with a dedicated goal and budget doing novelties and doing specific activations, but to actually get it across the complete companies, redefine what we are doing, looking at it from a helicopter perspective, I would say. And for that, I think the yeah, the biggest change is to create these conversations between departments. Change management starts very often with with people that understand with people who believe in this change and yeah, and want to actually make it happen. So that that would be my main advice. And then secondly, listen to your younger employees. They are the ones that are very often the ones with true values when it comes to creating change, creating uh better impact. Very often they're also open for innovation, they are digital natives, they have new ideas, fresh ideas. Uh, and I think there's a lot of value in listening to them, engaging uh conversations with the younger people in your uh organizations. So that has for me already uh proven a lot of times to be very fruitful and very interesting and relevant uh for the people in the different uh stages.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Yeah, that that's a great piece of advice. Um you you talk a lot about networks. So, how important is collaboration in making progress? And what does good collaboration look like in in practice?

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Yeah, I think networking is a little bit my my second nature. I don't do it on purpose, but I have been doing it uh already for so many years. And and it's probably because I, as you as you mentioned, uh my enthusiasm is is well, but it's also because I I'm also very curious uh from nature and I always I'm always very interested in what other people are doing and and how they are actually making their own changes and doing their own uh way of things. And by learning what other people are doing, you sometimes also learn about what they actually need or what they are up to, or what are the opportunities they can bring. And then sometimes I talk to somebody else and I see there is a certain connection, and then I love to create these bridges because I truly believe that human connection and and where people are pushing certain things, if you can do it together, it's yeah, it's becoming much bigger and faster. So the one plus one is three principle and make the network work are like two of my mantras already for many years. Um, and these collaborations, I think very often they must start with a common goal. Also, I think very often you can be very honest and open that there is a personal goal in this collaboration. You will just you just need to align how to make things work, then it that it will benefit everybody on board. And if if you can discuss this openly and align on this, then the collaboration becomes even more important. Collaborations can have so many different uh shapes and formats, but if we see, for example, two different fashion brands collaborate, very often is because one has a certain uh community and the other one has the budget, for example, or they align on certain values or whatever. So there is always a common goal. And if this is well aligned and they are transparent about it and it's an authentic common goal, I think this is yeah, the most fruitful uh collaboration you can have.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

I completely agree. Um, and if and if you could if you could reshape the narrative more broadly, if you could change one thing about how sustainability is communicated across industries, what what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 39:41

I remember very well I was at uh at the global fashion summits many, many years ago, and Vanessa Friedman was doing uh a keynote on sustainability and the messaging, and she said at that time already, like we need to be able to communicate in a more sexy way. And I think even all these years later, it still stands, it's still a big challenge. People go to fashion, as I mentioned earlier, for for identity, for the dream, for what it can, yeah, what it can become. Um and I think sustainability should should be part of that messaging. It should be it should be aspiring, it should be inspirational, it should be fun, it should be something that maybe makes you think or or laugh or be inspired uh differently. Um I think this is for me personally, it has much more effect if you can get this message across in this way than instead of all the, although it's important to have a awareness of of the the bad impact, but by communicating the amount of yeah of negative impacts that that we are causing is not going to change consumer behavior enough that we have seen the last years. So I do think we need to communicate in a positive and engaging way and turn people around in yeah, in making thoughtful positive decisions. So, yeah, make it more sexy is is definitely uh a good way forward, I would say.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

We'll uh we'll take on that mantra and we'll we'll we'll do our best. Um so before we before we finish, um just like to ask you what what excites you most about what's coming next for machine, uh for for turbo or for the the wider sustainability movement?

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Um there are so many different things. Um what excites me most is we are always most happy with a project if we can actually see the change happening. For example, when I was presenting Turbo in a room full of people in Berlin Fashion Week, and then we get messages afterwards of people coming up to us afterwards saying, like, wow, that was really inspiring. This was really something that I needed to hear. This is what gives us the drive to move forward. So we are definitely looking forward to yeah, creating more uh moments of these and and create uh a bigger uh impact. Um Yasmin is already uh also collaborating a lot with uh younger generations. Um I'm also setting up uh more programs uh for teenagers later this year, and I think this is also very exciting to yeah, to bring people on board with a positive messaging uh in the early years when when they are maybe still very receptive in in thinking differently. Um, so this is very exciting. And then on the other hand, yeah, I'm really looking forward to what technology and innovation are bringing uh in opportunities. Um I have been working on hackathons for a fashion museum, I've been working on digital and and holographic fashion shows and all these opportunities to yeah, to engage with fashion in a in a in a different way. Um, yeah, it's very exciting to look forward.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

I knew that you'd have plenty to be enthusiastic about, without doubt. Um, so lastly, I'd like to wrap up with a big and quite difficult question and ask if you could achieve one major sustainability breakthrough in the next decade, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Personally, because it's my very specific dada, and I know um not everybody will like it, but I do think we will need to produce less, we will need to make better choices. And for me personally, for example, having digital or virtual versions of fashion that can still give people this way of expressing identity and engaging with the fun and nice part of what fashion stands for, instead of producing too many clothes. I think this this definitely could be um a better way forward. Um, it's completely against uh economic growth, but also degrowth uh should be on the table. Um, and I do believe, again, my optimistic view, maybe uh naive, maybe, but I do think there are other ways that we can engage with fashion and what it stands for without pushing garments at the speed and quantity we are doing today. So if I can dream, this would definitely be one of the solutions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

You have to have a dream.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

And thank you for joining us today. What I've loved about this conversation is that it reminds us that innovation alone isn't enough. Um, it's about networks, it's about connection, about clarity and communication that that turn that that possibility into progress. So um thanks for joining us. And we look forward to seeing what impact machine and turbo and any other innovations that you put into the world, what impact they have on the planet in the future. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

No, thank you for having me and for the fantastic collaboration already up till now and for everything the future uh brings to us. Thank you so much, Colin.