Ep. 7 - What Makes a City Work: A Mayor’s POV

What if the most important part of your city is the part you never see? We sit down with Mayor Molly Rawn for a candid tour of how Fayetteville actually works, from a “strong mayor” structure that ties policy to execution, to the hidden systems that keep taps running, toilets flushing, and streets moving safely. It’s an inside look at governing without the gloss: 900 positions to coordinate, daily trade-offs to weigh, and residents to serve with clarity and humility.

We dig into the 2026 sales tax bond and why timing is everything. Arkansas law now limits bond elections to primaries or general, which means Fayetteville has a narrow window to renew a continuation, without raising the tax rate, and fund projects that can’t wait. At the top of the list is the Nolan (Eastside) sewer plant, where aging components and capacity constraints make upgrades essential. Skip the bond, and the cost shifts to ratepayers through higher water and sewer bills. Approve it, and the city can invest in core infrastructure by leveraging sales tax, including contributions from visitors.

Beyond pipes and pumps, we talk streets and mobility, especially long-standing east–west bottlenecks, plus park improvements and a proposed aquatic center. That pool isn’t just a splash; it’s a partnership with the school district and a strategy to keep family spending in Fayetteville rather than neighboring cities. Trails, tourism, and outdoor access remain pillars of the city’s appeal, but sustainable growth requires the less visible investments that make daily life work.

If you care about local government, infrastructure funding, city planning, and practical leadership, this conversation lays out the stakes with zero jargon and plenty of candor. Subscribe, share with a Fayetteville friend, and tell us: where do you land on the bond, and what would earn your vote?

Transcript

Welcome And Fayetteville Snapshot

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Welcome everybody to the Radical Moderate Podcast. I am your host, Pat O'Brien, and today I am joined by the honorable Molly Ron, who is the mayor of Fayetteville, Arkansas. Welcome to the show, Mayor.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Hey, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Well, I love the name, by the way, The Radical Moderate. Well well done.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Yeah, well, I it was a book I wrote uh a little over a decade ago. Uh quite frankly, I don't think anybody read it. So uh so some close friends and family records.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Well, now I'm embarrassed that I didn't know that, so I should have done my homework.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

You are with the great majority of people who never read it, but uh you'll have to you'll go back and watch episode one and and you'll it'll kind of tie in. But and so I guess we're I'm already up to episode seven. So thank you. You're my first elected official. Um, and I want to, because I'm I went to school in Fayetteville and I live in Fayetteville now. There was a 30-year gap in between. I want to give you the chance. I probably won't give that many people, do a do a commercial for Fayetteville, Arkansas. I think somebody might live two or three states away that's listening to this. What is special about the city?

What Makes Fayetteville Special

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah, no pressure. Just do a commercial for your town. Yeah. Uh Fayetteville, so I have lived a little bit about me. I have lived um in many different parts of the state. I was born and grew up in Paragould. I uh moved to Little Rock in elementary school, went to high school there, thought that would be home, moved to Fayetteville in 2005, have been there the last 20 years and obviously love it, right? Or how would you be doing the job I'm in and don't plan on living anywhere else? And for me, there is just something about Fayetteville that it's difficult for me to put into words how um I think it's so easy to get involved in Fayetteville. And what I mean by that is if you're someone like me that's really interested in politics, both professionally but also as a hobby, I feel like Fayetteville is an easy place to get engaged. It's an easy place to uh feel like your voice is being heard. But then on the, on the, you know, for normal people who who don't perhaps want to spend um their free nights and weekends uh hanging out at City Hall, listening to committee meetings, Fayetteville to me is that perfect mix of having wonderful amenities, wonderful restaurants, a great nightlife scene, um, and also access to nature that is not that far away. You know, it does not take you that far in Fayetteville to be um out in the wonderful, you know, Ozarks and out in that region or at the, you know, America's first national river, the Buffalo River. You know, we are so situated in such a great space geographically, but we do have those amenities that you typically find in a bigger city. And I think that surprises people when they're visiting. And, you know, I used to work in the tourism industry for our city. And I uh people in Fate will sometimes get tired of uh talking about the trails. But the reason that we talk about them all the time is because how important to tourism they are and how important to quality of life they are. I mean, we have 50 miles of paid trail, give or take, 50 miles of off-road trails, give or take. Um, and rarely am I visiting another state where somebody doesn't talk about, oh, I've been wanting to come to Northwest Arkansas, I've been wanting to come to Fayetteville. Like I I want to, you know, I want to ride your trails, I want to see what it's all about. And so I think that just the the diversity of experiences we have with the city feel, with that access to outdoor recreation is is unique.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Well, I think you're a great spokesman for the city. One thing I would say about the the people hearing about us, I was sitting at a restaurant uh bar in Birmingham, Alabama on business. This is several years ago. This married couple walk in, they're in biking gear and and and engage in conversation with them. And it was about Bentonville, but I, you know, same proximity, northwest Arkansas, same nature, and everything.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

What city did you say? I've not heard of there's Bentonville. I've not heard of this.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

For those, Bentonville is a close, it's got a Ville on it too, but uh close by, but but Fayetteville, to me, you could interchange it. But they uh they had been there and and that they biking had was something that attracted them. And I think for those who haven't been to Northwest Arkansas in the commercial here, it's beautiful. And sometimes uh our sports teams are good. Maybe not necessarily uh the football team ever since I've moved back uh the last couple of years.

Trails, Tourism, And Regional Buzz

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Can we tie it to that? Can we chart, can we get somebody in the U of A to chart like my involvement's return to Northwest Arkansas, Pat's return to Fayetteville, and then the the Razorback performance?

SPEAKER_02 4:59

I'm a pretty transparent person, but I don't think I want that study done. I don't think I want that study. It doesn't look too good on the chart. Well, let let's go back to to why you ran. So you ran, we're taping in 2025 and you won an election not quite a year ago at this time. Why why did you run for mayor?

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Because I felt like I could do a good job. And you know, that's such a um and maybe your listeners can can can relate to this, but politics now, when we listened, and maybe it's heck, maybe it's always been this way. I don't know. I I feel like when I listen to people that hold public office, you get the such these like polished, perfected answers that you know have like been through focus groups, right? And and I um and I had a better answer, you know, when I was running of, you know, you you wanna you want to say the right things, you want to sound a certain way. But if I'm being just honest, it's I believed I could do a good job. And um I no disrespect to my predecessor. Um, he was seeking a fifth term. So it would have put him at the end of that term of 20 years as mayor, um, between 24 and 28 in public service, 28 as an elected official, had had he uh done another term. And I just felt I just knew uh that Fable had changed so much during that time, um, a lot of it for the better, and a lot of it to his credit for sure, but also I saw a lack of um, we didn't seem we were doing a lot of um wash, rinse, and repeat. Right. And it and it seemed like we had gotten a little complacent and I worried about what the next 20 years of our city was going to look like if we didn't start doing things differently. And I'd been working with the city closely in my job at the time for um you know the better part of a decade and had seen a lot of um a lot of the way things were happening and the way that um decisions were being made and and really believed we were ready for a um a change. It it helped um that I made that decision when I was also under the impression that that I wouldn't be challenging an incumbent. So that helps. And so I sometimes wonder, would I have still decided to throw my hat in?

SPEAKER_02 7:25

So you're saying you you were in the impression that uh he wasn't gonna run again?

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Initially, yes. Yeah, initially, yes. And so um now to be clear, when when I did know that he was going to run again, when I did find that out, I didn't uh it was still pretty early on and I didn't back away. So I mean, but when I announced formally, I knew, you know, that he was gonna be my opponent. But when I went through that decision-making process, right, with my with my family, with my friends, thinking about do I really want to do this, all of that sort of internal work that happened behind the scenes for me was, you know, planning this campaign in my mind that that he would not be my opponent. And so that was a shift and a shift that I had to make really quickly, right? Um, because I was ready, you know, you're drumming up this plan. I mean, you know what it's like. You've you've run for office before and and and making this plan and then finding out, oh, curveball, do I still want to go forward with it? And ultimately, um, yeah, I did.

Why Run For Mayor

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Well, I think your answer is interesting because I think it's hard for me, being a former elected official, uh, to think like just people who've never done and never run for anything, who would probably never go to a county or city meeting, that sort of thing. But the answer you gave was I just thought I could do a good job. And when you think about it, isn't that the reason most people take any job? Like, why do you major in math in college? Like, you think you could be good at it.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

And you enjoy it, hopefully.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

For sure. And and let me tell you, uh, for those listening who've never done it, if you don't enjoy campaigning, if you don't enjoy being in the public eye, if you don't, if you don't have a thick enough skin when people on the internet say really vile, nasty, horrible things about you, it's not going to be enjoyable. And and so I think I I think it's a great answer. And I appreciate you just kind of you know cutting to the chase. So you did win. Let's we'll move past it. We're you're maybe, I don't know, 10 months in-ish right now. What have what's it been like? Just me first off, meaning, you know, how many people does the city employ? Like what do you do on a daily basis?

Campaign Decision And Incumbency Twist

SPEAKER_01 9:36

We have, and you know, I don't have the the report in in front of me, but I'm gonna say give or take, we have about nine hundred um, you know, individual we have about 900 positions now. At any given time, we have vacancies and they're not filled. So that doesn't mean there are currently 900 people right now working there, but including um the staff at City Hall, all our departments, fire and police, there are around around 900. Um, and one of the things I love about my job is it is different every single day. Um, and I get this question so often of describe a typical day. And maybe by the end of my first term or the end of my time in office, I'll be able to describe it for you better because I I know that I know the type of answer people want me to give. And I don't know how, I don't know how to give that answer, right? Like so today I'm I'm sitting down with you, right? And I'm doing a podcast. And so um a lot, like most people in any sort of job nowadays, a lot of my job is in meetings, right? Meeting with water and sewer, understanding what their challenges are right now, meeting with our city attorney, meeting with my chief of staff. I mean, there's there's all of the external stuff that that when you think about being a mayor, that or that the people think about the the politics of it, the the legislation that we're trying to accomplish at the council level. And then there's running a business and or just running an endeavor, an enterprise, if you will, that is the city with departments and HR and payroll and accounting and just like keeping the trains running because in Fayetteville, we have a strong mayor system. So I know you have listeners, you know, probably from all over, and there are different forms of government. So I there are mayors across the country whom their job is very ceremonial. They are a figurehead, they shake hands and kiss babies and cut ribbons. And then there is a full-time, um, in a lot of cases, it's called a city manager that reports to a board of directors or what we would call a city council. And that that city council is in charge of that person's employment. In Fayetteville, we don't have a that form of government. We have what's known as a strong mayor. So the the buck stops here. Right. And so those departments ultimately report up to me. Now, I do have a chief of staff that I've hired, but he is hired and and um, you know, fired, though he will be fired, he's incredible, but hired and fired by me and not by the council. And so I'm the council's, the city council's only employee. And so it's a little bit different because there is that aspect to it of of just running any operation with that many people.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Well, and I've on any given day, I think our company's got about 500 employees and and restaurant business and lots of lots of mistakes happen, and we we hear it all the time. And so I can I can only imagine, and and so it sounds like though, you you must have a knack for it, right? Is your personality style such that you enjoy the work?

SPEAKER_01 12:32

I do enjoy the work. And you said something, you know, dear in your intro about running for office about how if you don't want to do, I'm gonna butcher it, but Pat, you said something like if you don't want to do it, you shouldn't do it, right? If you don't have a thick skin, if you don't enjoy the campaigning. And the only pushback I would have for you on that is that I don't I enjoy the campaigning because I enjoy the opportunity to talk with people from all walks of life that otherwise I might not encounter. I enjoy that. I like that. I don't love the competition and the race and the I don't, I don't love the campaigning. I've talked to politicians who they're, you know, it's sort of like they love the campaigning and then, yeah, in the middle there's all that governing stuff, right? And then there are people like that. I I love the work. I love the work. I love what I come in and do every day. I love that it changes. I love that I get to go read to school kids, go sit down and talk to seniors at a retirement community, go, you know, see what our transportation teams are doing in the field, what their actual work is, how can I help them be better at it? Um it's uh, and it's not that that sounded arrogant. I want to, I want to unpack that for a minute. It's it's leading a team of which I know I'm not the star player and I know I'm not the expert. So, like with our IT department, I can do what they do. I don't have that skill set, right? I don't know. With our city engineering department, I don't, I'm not an engineer, I don't know what that's like, but I can listen to the challenges that they're having and figure out where there might be common themes that I'm hearing with another department or where that might be a disconnect between what they're experiencing and what the public is seeing, and I can help figure out how to break down those barriers. And that's to me what is the most fun.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

Well, I I I would get guess, given the leadership scribe uh style that you're describing, that that's probably pretty appreciated from your employees. Just having a voice having a voice. And I certainly when I'm in my restaurants, I enjoy that the heck out of it. I also enjoy the fact that I get to be in business every day without an election cycle. You know, yeah. Like, I mean, if if we do a bad job, that's just on us, versus, you know, in politics, I mean, you're it's every four years, and so I don't hopefully you're not thinking about four years from now, right now, you're just doing the job. But it it's still something you have to be aware of because you you put a plan together, like I want to do a 10-year plan. Well, you don't know that you're gonna be here.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

You don't know you're gonna be around for 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Exactly.

What A Strong Mayor Actually Does

SPEAKER_01 15:04

And it's um, yeah, and you and you say that you want to, well, I don't know if you I have heard and what I try to think about is this notion that you can't lead as if you're gonna be running again. You know, so you do I try to ask myself, okay, what decisions would I be making if I weren't ever gonna run for re-election again? Like if I didn't have to worry about a backlash for this, if I could just do what is best for the for the city. And he and I I I get that, and there is value in that. Let me tell you why it doesn't really work. Because if that's what you are thinking about, if you're just like, that almost implies that I'm somehow making these decisions unilaterally without thinking about um how it's going to make the residents mad. And the residents are my constituents, they're the ones that I am working on behalf of. And so if they're irritated about something, I need to respond to that and I need to listen and be aware and maybe change course. And that's not because I'm trying to curry political favor. That's because I'm trying to be responsive to what I'm hearing. And so, how do I do that balance between what the city's plans are and what we're hearing that the public wants? And when do those mesh and when do they not? And so it's not as simple as just, you know, make decisions without regard for the consequences. You can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Sure. Well, to me, it sounds like you really, you really grind on this stuff, you you're trying to figure it out, and probably the talking to people is just a way to get more information to make sure you don't want to live in an ivory tower and be making decisions that are not informed. And so I want to talk about something now uh that you, I believe you have brought up, and that's a a big bond issue, is that right? Yes, yeah. So we're we're taping in the fall of 2025, and I believe there's an election in 2026, uh, March of 2026. Would you explain what is going on with this? Like just and and I always tell people you're talking about IT. My wife's an IT professional, and I I tell her, honey, explain it to me like I'm six years old. Like I don't know the big words. So explain to the voter who just wants to know what's going on. But yeah, what are you trying to do and what are the consequences? Like what all's involved.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Right. So um I will have no problem explaining it to you like a six-year-old, because in many ways that's how that's how when learning about these things for the first time, my staff had to um uh to explain it to me. And so if there's anybody out there listening who is like a bond counsel or works for a bond underwriting firm or like, you know, certifies municipal bonds for a living, I promise we have people on staff other than me that are diving into the details on this. But so uh bonds are a way. Uh well, let's start back with, let's start with Arkansas and and zoom out for a little bit. Arkansas is a sales tax-driven state. So you mentioned your restaurants earlier. Thank you very much. I spend quite a lot of uh, you have an app. I don't know how much we're allowed to plug on the show, but I do you have if you're if you're plugging Sonic, you're allowed to plug all day. You have the you have the best ice. Um, and I am a regular at the Sonic on College Avenue. I think they know me at this point, and so we like to go for happy hour. Um it it every time I spend money at Sonic, that there's a portion of that that goes back to the city, right? Every time I order anything off from an online retailer or from a local shop or, you know, get my oil changed or anything, anytime I have anything done in the city of Fayetteville, you know, sales tax dollars come back to the city. That is way more of a driver than um for our revenue at the city than property taxes, which is different from, you know, from a lot of other states. And so one of the ways that we are able to maximize that is to do a sales tax bond, which is essentially a mechanism for the city to borrow money and pledge future sales tax dollars as collateral to pay that back. We did that, we've done that several times. I mean, municipal municipalities do this like every few years or so. Uh Fayetteville did this for the last time in, I believe it was 2018. Might have been 2019. And um, it is what built the new police station in Fayetteville. It is what built the Faye Jones Woods and the Upper Ramble. Um it was known as the Cultural Arts Corridor at the time. It was responsible for many trail improvements, streetscapes enhancement enhancements, um, amenities into our parks department. And so um what happened is that we began to, well, what happened first is the state legislature changed the the rules on formally uh you used to the a municipality could decide to hold a bond election whenever they wanted, right? Whenever they wanted to spend the money to do it. Um now the laws have changed, and you can only go to the voters for a bond election um during a primary election or during a general election.

Governing Style And Team Leadership

SPEAKER_02 20:10

So you're I think you're saying it used to be you could call a special election. Which might just perception is that you might call it when you don't think a ton of people are gonna vote to maximize your chances.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

So judgment aside about whether or not that was a good decision or a bad decision, there was certainly, I think what we can all agree on is there was certainly leeway in the timing, right? There is not now. So um, Fayetteville, because we have had sales tax growth, which is a good thing, right? We've all been driving to your restaurant and getting that sonic ice, we've had sales tax growth. We are likely going to have those bonds paid off fairly soon. That we thought it was going to be a 10-year thing, they're gonna be paid off in a much shorter time frame than that. Because of that, we have the option, two options in 2026, because it's the midterm elections, it's a gubernatorial election year. We have March and we have November.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

And let me, so you couldn't do it in 25 or 27. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_01 21:08

We could not do it in 25 or 27. Okay. And so if we were to not go to the voters in 2026, we would be running the risk that the bonds would mature and we would have to, if we wanted to do another sales tax bond, go out to the voters and ask to then raise their taxes because that tax would expire.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Okay. I see.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

And I don't want to do that. Nobody wants to do that. Nobody wants their taxes raised. And it also really hinders the ability of the city to do really critical, important infrastructure investments without raising taxes. So there is a one cent sales tax that is um, that is there that is, you know, if you when you come out and vote for this bond initiative in March, when it's on your ballot and you vote for it, your taxes are not going up at all. You are paying the exact same as you have been paying on all goods and services. And so it we run into a timing issue of wanting to make sure that that that is when we can situate it sort of in the calendar. Um this is the largest bond package that that we've ever brought forward in Fayville. It's about$325 million. And it is for critical infrastructure improvements. The number one item in the bond in terms of dollar amounts is the Nolan plant, also known as our Eastside Water and Sewer or Eastside Sewer Plant. And we have a three-phase study that we had a local firm do and assess. And there are several of components of that sewer system that are um reaching the end of their life cycle and that are at capacity. And um, that's the biggest part of the bond issue. And I'll stop right there in case you have more questions than I've been going.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

No, I mean, well, what I'd say is uh I appreciate the the background on the how a bond works. Yeah, a lot of that law has changed uh from even my understanding of it, say 20 years ago. The and and and I, you know, pro or con, there's some clarity now for municipalities. Yeah, you can't surprise the voters, you have to do it at certain times. Let's let's assume that that good things happened with the one cent sales tax that were previously done. I I'll tell you my opinion, then I'll uh give you the the the cue it up for the defense of why this is needed. In general, I'm a person who says if we're gonna build some public works, it it probably doesn't benefit me, Pat O'Brien, a ton because you know my family can afford to do a lot of the amenities or travel, but but I'm I want to be more community-minded. And so I generally almost always vote for sales tax increases. However, we know that now they don't always win, so I that means I'm not always the majority. Right. I want you to think, mayor, I want you to think of a person. Imagine a person who maybe uh has a libertarian streak. They want government to be as small as possible. They just they're just kind of not sold on any kind of taxation, but they understand certain things need to happen. What is it, and maybe maybe you can't get their vote, but what's your pitch of why that person should vote for this particular bond issue?

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Yeah, so I want to clarify one thing that you said before I answered that question, and it's that you said you almost always vote for a tax increase. And I know that you know this, but just for the listeners that this is not.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

It's a continuation.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

It's a continuation, sure, but just semantics, but yes, I get it. What I would say is that um everyone um who lives in the, you know, the city of Fayetteville, uh, we all flush the toilet and we all want that to go where it needs to go, right? And we all want that to be treated well and um maintained and sanitory, sanitary, so that when we go into the other room and turn on the tap, um, the water that comes out is clean and safe and our in our drinking water and everybody wants that. And that gets paid for by city government. And that gets paid for in one of two ways. It gets paid for by the ratepayers. So you, when you send a bill to the city every single month, that is your water and your sewer bill, right? Um or it gets paid for through um still through the still through the taxpayers, but in the form of a sales tax capital bond. So what happens if a bond like that, like the the question that's going to be there in March, is the$150 million for the water and sewer upgrades, let's say that fails. We as the city, what we don't do, we then have to make difficult choices. Here's a choice that is not on the table. Fixing the Nolan plant or not repairing it, not upgrading it, not making sure we can continue its capacity and its life cycle for another 20, 30 years, that is not an option. That is grossly irresponsible. So the question then becomes okay, how do we pay for it? The ratepayers are how we pay for it. So then what happens is your water and your sewer rates go up. We couldn't bond it out. We couldn't borrow against ourselves, we couldn't borrow against future sales tax. So we pass it along to the ratepayers, right? And so that's an understanding that I need people. We're not saying um, you know, oh, these water and sewer things are nice to have. And that's just one part of the bond, but that's the one we've started talking about. Um also they're$56 million for street improvements, right? Whether you are um a passenger in a car, driving in a car, or riding public transit, you need safe streets, safe intersections, more walkability, easier flow of traffic. Um, a problem we have long identified in Fayetteville are east-west corridors. Um, we don't have a lot of them. We've found better and more convenient ways to go north and south, right? But if you're trying to transverse east and west in Fayetteville, it's a little bit trickier. And so this will address some of that. There are also some quality of life amenity, what I will call quality of life amenities for the parks department in particular, with a new aquatic center and then and with improvements to the existing parks. Let me ask you about the aquatic center. Yeah, please do. Because I a lot of misinformation. So I would love to care.

The 2026 Sales Tax Bond Primer

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Well, I know nothing. And I uh we we have a membership to an athletic club, it's got a pool. Yeah. Again, I feel personally I'm taking care of, but I don't necessarily vote my personal interest. Let's talk about the aquatic center. What what is that and why why is it a good thing for Fayetteville?

SPEAKER_01 27:50

It is a good thing for Fayetteville for I think it is important for for a city to have places for its residents to recreate and enjoy and to um have quality time and to be able to do that in an affordable way. It's also represents an important partnership with the school district that we have been exploring. So Fable Public Schools, um, they don't have an adequate, they don't have a place for their swim team to practice, right? So they often have to compete for space at private locations, which is not ideal. Probably like the the the club that you were mentioning that you're a member of, it might may or may not be one of those places, or they have to go to neighboring cities. Um, and so in addition to it being a nice thing to have, good for the school district, it's also an economic driver in that every time a parent puts kids in the car and drives them to Springdale, Rogers, or Bittenville to enjoy their aquatic facilities, which they all three, by the way, have them, they are taking money with them. So they're stopping in Springdale and filling up with gas. They're, you know, running through Sonic and Rogers on the way home. And while that may be great for you, it may be Sonic either way, but it's not great for us, right? As opposed to keeping those dollars in Fayetteville. When you are a company that is recruiting someone, right? And you want your, you know, young professionals to come and you want them to live in your city, um, and they look at it as a region and they think, oh, well, you know, I could do this job and I could live in Fayetteville, or I could, I could move just up the road. We could live in Rogers and I could still see the city.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

There's an issue of competition.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

There is, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:28

And let me say I should have brought that I kind of lost track of time. I get so deep into this. Let's do this. I want to I want to keep keep talking about the aquatic center.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

We're gonna have to do our next episode. Oh my gosh, we're next episode. We've already we've already gotten out of the time this week. I think we and I'm gonna pick right back up for so cliffhanger, you're gonna have to come back next next week, and and the audience will have to come back, hopefully. And so for this week, we've gotten we've kind of heard the background story of of Mayor Molly Ron, and and I think she we We've gotten a deep dive into this bond issue, which I think will be interesting to play out months from now if somebody's listening after the fact. How did it turn out? But for this week's episode, uh, I'm going to wrap it up. And as you know, I always end by saying that's the POV of POBIC.