Ep. 22 - Disruptors: From Trump to Stephen A. Smith

What happens when a sports heavyweight starts speaking like a candidate and college athletics starts operating like a startup? We connect the dots between Stephen A. Smith’s jump into political commentary and the market forces transforming NIL-era college sports, tracing one big idea: disruption favors the voices and programs that adapt fastest while staying legible to the people they serve.

We start with the media “melting pot” that pairs ideological opposites to chase credibility and reach. Stephen's willingness to praise and criticize both sides reads as rare honesty in a climate that’s exhausted by scripts, and that mix of confidence, clarity, and stagecraft feels built for modern politics. The question isn’t just “Will he run?” It’s why a candid, high-visibility communicator can command trust where party loyalists cannot, and what that says about voters craving normal, practical leadership over purity tests.

From there, we pivot into college football and basketball, where NIL and the transfer portal have upended roster building and budgets. The results are messy and magnetic. Viewership is surging, storylines are sharper, and programs need more than recruiters; they need contract fluency, incentive design, and GM-level strategy. We unpack how guaranteed money can dull commitment, why smarter contracts and tight eligibility rules are essential, and how administrators must treat athletics like the business it has become without losing the soul that makes campus sports beloved. Fans still want walk-on grit and four-year arcs, but they also want parity, fresh heroes, and meaningful stakes every week.

Threaded through all of it is a simple, demanding lesson: competition clarifies. Parties are vehicles, not destinies. Athletic departments are enterprises, not hobbies. The winners will be the ones who evolve in public, reward performance without crushing autonomy, and communicate like real people under real pressure. 

If this resonates, subscribe, share this episode with a friend who lives for March or campaign season, and leave a quick review to tell us where you stand on regulation vs. the free market in college sports. We’re listening.

Transcript

Setting The Stage And Recap;

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Welcome back, everybody, to the Radical Moderate Podcast. I'm your host, Pat O'Brien, and today I am doing part two of my episode with Scott Davis, who I call my restaurant Razorback Blood Brother. I think we're going to kind of get into maybe get into all those things on this episode. Welcome back, Scott. Thank you for having me, man. So on our on last week's episode, we really did a pretty deep dive on like how we're friends and our differences and our similarities. We talked a lot about January 6th, but we, you know, Donald Trump in general. And I really liked your point a lot at the very end of talking about how maybe he got elected because people were told you can't vote for him. And when you tell somebody you can't do something, they're that's what they're gonna do. But moving on from that, it I had a thought kind of during the break, there's a person who has been part of the world which we're deeply passionate about, which is sports, a big time personality in that realm, who quite recently has entered the realm of political commentary, and that's Stephen A. Smith. Like, what do you what do you think? Yeah, what do you think about all that?

Media Melting Pots And Moderation;

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Well, I I mean, as crazy as it sounds, and and I think this goes back to a guy like, I mean, look, even like a guy like Trump, who's real estate developer, TV personality. Again, as we talked about the first episode where it's you know, laughed off the stage at the at the event. You create, you know, in essence, you almost created this monster, but but you also open doors, uh, in in my opinion, to where, yeah, we're you know, I'm I'm I'm watching Como and Bill O'Reilly and Stephen A. Smith the other night, and he's done everything but announced, you know, he's running for president in 28. And and it's just the you know, it's just an example of kind of where we've drifted to, to where a guy that I've always felt like is probably a little bit radical even in the sports realm, is maybe he comes across, at least as today, of maybe a little bit more reasonable in the political realm. And, you know, and and and being able to he, you know, he's he's one of these guys that's seeing it on both sides of the fence. And and I don't think he 100% agrees with either side. And I think that if you see him, you know, run for president, we'll say we talked about every year. Are you saying you think this is gonna happen? Are you calling it? I think it could happen. And it's you know, and and so you know, I think his in his comment, you know, uh, you know, that I seen on the show was uh I'm gonna do it if I don't think I can win. Which show was this? This was on Cuomo and Chris Cuomo and Bill O'Reilly. Okay. And uh they do what do they do it together? They do all three of them get on the okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

I didn't get on the show. I listened to I've listened to Cuomo quite a bit. O'Reilly, I don't listen to.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

I'd quite frankly, I forgot he's still on, but well, I think what they've done, what they've done there and with that news nation is try to put together kind of a melting pot of gotcha. I've I've got the the you know the Democrat, I've got the you know, conservative, and maybe I've got somebody in the middle, um, which is ironic because that's what they've made in in Stephen A. Smith. And, you know, kind of what what I appreciate about him though, and in listening to some of their shows is is that number one, he'll call the bullshit out on both sides, you know, with it. Um, and uh, and and yeah, and then the same breath that one side is if they win on on an issue, he's gonna say that that that's a good deal um, you know, for for us and for and for the country. In the same breath, if it's something that he doesn't agree with, he's gonna call it out. And um, you know, and and and has no allegiance to you know to either side. And so I think that's what kind of makes him intriguing.

Would Stephen A. Actually Run;

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Let me ask you about Stephen A. Smith, because I I mean I've certainly seen him over the years on ESPN, but I kind of saw him as a guy who just would be like real firm in his opinions. He'd like he didn't care if he's wrong or not, he's just trying to entertain, which is perfectly fine. Right. And maybe, but maybe I underestimate him. And but my question is, as he makes this transition to trying to be an informed political voice, do you think that the guy who maybe years and years ago started as the sports guy, do you think he's really done some studying and listened and like he's evolved to where he is informed about the things he's talking about?

Party Vehicles And Populist Disruption;

SPEAKER_01 4:46

I I mean, just listening to him, Pat. I think so. Okay. I mean, I I I think he's got a lot of a lot of good points um on, you know, things that they that he's that he's that they're talking about on on the show. And um again, I think I think it's something we're gonna see in in elections in this country moving forward. It it may be as a simple of a deal to some voters' minds that uh I want the candidate that that relates to me more. I want to want I want the candidate that feels normal. Not not not the one that's gonna be so far left or or so or so far right that you know that I that I've got to cross some lines. And and um and so yeah, I I think that's uh that's that that's a good possibility. I think I think when we look forward again to I know it's a long ways away, but uh, you know, 2028 presidential election, that that's what would be intriguing me. I could you imagine Stephen A. Smith going up against Gavin Newsome. So you're saying for the Democratic primary? Yes. And I and I think that's something for for for the Democrats, and this is something me I've talked to you about before. Because I again being, I guess being a business person, being a sports person, being competitive, I look at it from the other side. I mean, me and you have had these conversations where I'm like, if I was the Democratic Party, I would do this because I think it would give me a better chance. Um, I think in this last election, we've seen so many Democratic candidates that may have been your best candidate on the Democratic side, but for some reason got just put aside and and we we don't even want to think about them. It's like the you know, the Democratic Party, I think they've caught some heat over the last few years on this. It's like, no, this is your candidate. As opposed to there's five or six here, may the best person win. And and I think that's what will be intriguing, uh, you know, for me, at least when I look at it from that Democratic side uh or the Democrat Party is, you know, are are are they willing to let to let the cream rise to the top and and may the best candidate win, no matter who that is. I mean, we've seen that again with I know it may not have been your preferred candidate, but a Tulsi Gabbard that was a Democrat before. Uh an RFK Jr. that that that was a Democrat before. Um, I felt like a an aim Amy Klobuchar. Well that's I voted for Klobuchar back in 2020. And so I what I'm getting at is I think you've got a lot of these people that, you know, uh maybe even you may have even agreed that would have been a better candidate than Joe Biden or a better candidate than even Kamala Harris. But again, it was like this one is the one that Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

No, and and you're probably you're probably right on a lot of that. What you got me thinking, though, on the Stephen A. Smith, because if you look at what Donald Trump did, I think a lot of people would say he kind of hijacked the Republican Party. I mean, because he was never a Republican, the guy was pro-choice and this sort of thing. But then he finangled his way in there with a strong personality and he that has made them a lot more populist. And, you know, we could go into a lot of those policies, but maybe what you I presume what you're saying is Stephen A. Smith running in the Democratic primary. But are you are you playing, is it possible he could run in the Republican primary?

SPEAKER_01 8:13

No, I I don't think you'll see him run in the repo. I think it's the better chance he runs on the Democrat uh ticket as opposed to to the Republican. Um, you know, who knows if uh if he runs as an independent. I think Donald Trump was a prime example. You'd call it hijacking the Republican Party, and maybe that's what it was, maybe it wasn't. But uh but you but you definitely I think Trump definitely recognized I I need that vehicle. Sure. Yeah. And and not we we've just never seen it. Uh again, it's where I go back to it's we've got two choices. Most people in this country are gonna vote vote for whichever one they feel like is the least worst solution. Right. And um, and and that's all they feel like they've got to choose from. We've never seen an independent um, you know, rise from the bottom, you know, to the top. And uh, yeah, I think we, you know, you may have seen a guy like RFK Jr. uh may have gotten more votes than than anybody, but um, you know, but I think that's just uh if if you don't have still these two parties and riding one of those vehicles, um, I think it'd be I mean it'd be a groundbreaking thing if we did have an independent and actually win today.

Voter Psychology And Market Openings;

Pivot To College Sports And NIL;

SPEAKER_00 9:27

But I but I just don't I just don't see the rule the rules are really hard because the Democrats and Republicans are setting up those rules. I will say, maybe to be more civil about how I described uh what Trump did and try to check my bias, instead of saying he hijacked the Republican Party, like any business person, entrepreneurial mindset who sees a market opportunity, he definitely disrupted the Republican Party. And, you know, he was he was saying negative things about John McCain, and then he was running against uh Bush, you know, again, another, yet another Bush was running. And right, and I think he probably saw an opportunity of like, this is stale. Like, I mean, they're gonna lose and people are gonna get excited. And there's no question that Donald Trump was a very exciting choice for people in the beginning and and has had that staying power. I won't give you the name, but I remember back in 2015, and I had just gotten into the sonic business, and I was just working at one of my restaurants, and I had this cook who uh, you know, just a guy who's you're making minimum wage, trying to do your job. And I was working side by side with him, showing him something. And somehow the kind, you know, you know how restaurants are, you get it's a long, kind of mundane job a lot of times. So you start talking and we start talking about politics. And somehow he said, you know, Pat, what do you I want to ask you a question because he knew my background. He said, What do you think about Donald Trump running for president? I was kind of surprised because I didn't know this young man would be that engaged. And I was like, Well, you know, I kind of at the time I didn't think a lot of it, but we kind of got in that conversation, and the point he made was, I just think he could be different. You know, I think he might be like, I this is a guy who, this young man who was not engaged, is not given money, not going, you know, he he he feels like no one's speaking to him, and he thought the idea of Donald Trump, probably because he had seen The Apprentice and stuff, was appealing. And I it wasn't for me, but I'm I'm really deep into it, right? I'm Mr. Policy and all that. So he he definitely had appeal. Now, let me can we segue? I want to where it's actually gonna, the Stephen I. Smith thing is I want to talk about some sports, which is one of our one of the things that we have the longest conversations about. So let me frame the question this way just college athletics, and let's limit it for now just to football and basketball, and probably a little more football, not just about the Razorbacks. Uh, well, because I mean the basket basketball really, really good, football really, really awful in the past, but just kind of the state of college athletics and think about, let's talk about it as a marketplace and all that. What are what's your first thought when I throw that question out there?

SPEAKER_01 12:22

You know, I think uh, you know, of course, you know, especially with me and you, it's it's it's either baseball, basketball, or or or football. And of course, obviously we're in the middle of basketball season. I'll tell you the, you know, just the intriguing thing with the NIL, uh, well, and even keep talking about Stephen A. Smith and um you had um uh him and Jay Williams and Kendrick Perkins, and you know, they're sitting there and and the and this is something a real thought of mine talking about the Peterson at Kansas and you know, he subs himself out in the Well, I didn't see that.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

So he I I he's not I guess the the the question is, is he committed? Right, but you're saying he's been sub he subbed himself out in the game.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Literally two minutes into the second half, he hits a three-pointer and then tapped Bill Self and said, I I need you to get me out of here. And and so and he and he's only played, I think it's 12, maybe 13 because he's missed a lot of games. Of of the season. And one thing that they were talking about on the show was the the product in college basketball is better than the NBA. I mean, the viewership is up by 30%. That's that's that's the unbelievable thing with all the money, the amount of money that's being spent on on college athletics now, and but we're talking about the viewership is up more than it's ever been. And so it's hard to say that it's, you know, I'm one of those ones that first was it's killing the sport, it's gonna, you know, it's doomsday and and all this stuff. Well, numbers don't lie. And and you know, that's that's that's what we're seeing on that. I think they had a good point on the NBA product, even though you have more talented players, it's not as exciting to watch it just because they're not gonna turn it, turn it on until probably closer to the playoffs or or once they once they get there. And but yeah, the the dynamic of of seeing 18 to 22-year-old kids now that they that that is a job for them now. They're they're employees. I think it's uh um, I think it's one of those things where we've seen a huge transition, transition from where it started to even where it is today on, you know, uh uh early on, it's we're gonna pay you a bunch of money, but then they go there and what if they don't play a game? Well, you've already paid them all this money. I think now you're getting more sophisticated people involved as far as getting these contracts lined out and and things. But again, you're still gonna have an example of just like Peterson at Kansas.

Incentives, Contracts, And Commitment;

SPEAKER_00 14:53

So with Peterson, are you thinking, because we don't, I don't have access to his contract, are you thinking he's got a guarantee money? And so then he just he's not incentivized the way the guys would have been before. Because this guy, you're talking about a guy who's most people are saying he's the number one pick, right? No lower than two or three, worst case. But are you saying he just is just mailing it in? And like not I don't know if it's is he saying there's an injury? I mean, what was what or do we even get information on why he's not playing? No, I think I think it would I would relate it to our business.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

It's like you if you if you if you cut us all of our dividends and our profits in January, we're probably not gonna work very hard for February through December, if we're being honest. And you know, and I think that's part of what what they're dealing with, and with you know, with some of these college athletes and and things, and and whether the people in this corner are are telling the right thing or the wrong thing, I guess we'll just have to see how it plays out. Selfishly being an Arkansas fan, you know, we see him not wanting to play 18 to 20 minutes a game, and then we see a guy like Darius Acuff who goes what regulation, all the taping overtime and we're taping the night after he played all 50 minutes in the game, never never came out.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

And and but and well, I know for those who are like, how do we get so deep into sports? I I the reason I wanted to bring this up is look at it from a market, and right now it's a market with very few rules in college athletics. So there's a ton of money involved. There's a a real huge demand, which is where, well, there's two sides. There's money being generated from the fans through watching television to go into events and all that. There's tremendous interest. But then until I don't know, the last certainly the last decade lose track of time, athletes didn't get anything more than a scholarship. But now they have NIL and really like NAL really is kind of a pay-to-play. There, there's essentially employees just not uh, you know, taking their taxes out and treated like employees precisely. So having said all that, I I view it right now as this bubble that is unsustainable. It's just going to keep feeding on itself, and there's no rulemaking body fully that can hold it accountable. And as a fan, initially, I think you kind of made this point earlier, that was kind of a turnoff. Now, though, I'm seeing it more from a business perspective and just saying, well, you know, like at the beginning of the internet, there was no regulation, and Congress actually just decided we're gonna take our hands off this thing and see where it goes. Tremendous innovation happened because of them not over-regulating it. So, do you, you know, where do you think we are now? Do you think we it is time to bring down the hammer with rules? Or are you kind of coming around to it's kind of interesting to see the bubble?

The Bubble Question And Rules;

SPEAKER_01 17:58

I think, I think you've got you've got to have more rules in in place than what we do right now. But I but I again, in in that style I told you about earlier, when your viewership's up by 30%, you can't ignore that either. Yeah. And so I think I think you've gotta, you know, you gotta do things where I, you know, I'm I'm one of these types that I I was raised to life's not fair, you know. And and so it it's it's you know, that's that's just part of it. Um, you know, um when we look at this, especially what college athletics has become, which has become a business now. Sure. Call it like it is. That's that's that's what it's become. And um, and and so yeah, I I I just think that um, you know, we it it it it will continue to evolve. You've got to have rules, but then like I said, you you've definitely got to acknowledge that that increase of viewership. And and it's it it it if you want if if you are one of these fair types and want everything to be fair in life, well, we have seen Vanderbilt on Specka College football playoff, you know, uh visit. Um, we've seen Indiana win the national championship in in football. I'm sure we'll see some of those scenarios this year and in in basketball as as well. Um, so yeah, again, I'm let the cream rise to the top and and uh we'll help it's Arkansas.

Fairness, Parity, And Viewership;

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Yeah, well our our real agenda is is we just want the Arkansas Razorrex to succeed no matter what the rules are. I I think that um just to kind of to finish the thought on college athletics, it what used to be really exciting about it was that you would have people who were trying to work their way toward something. And so, like in football, you'd have the the walk-on linebacker who wasn't good enough to play his freshman year, but then he gets in the weight room and he gets better and better. And by his junior or senior year, he's earned a scholarship. And so I think from a brand standpoint, you could really get behind that sort of thing. And you um, you know, you you knew their names and you kind of knew their stories and that sort of thing. I I think it's just not like that anymore, but I don't want to be the guy who's always pining for nostalgia. Like I'm kind of the opposite of that. I don't know, I guess though, kind of you you've mentioned winning a couple times. I guess if you if the direction is we've got to figure out how to take this amazing product and just if you focus on winning, then eventually that will tell you what the rules do need to be. But right now, quite frankly, if we put rules in place, we might just penalize the Indianas of the world or the people who really not gonna say shut out, but people who've never experienced success before. And Arkansas's, you know, right there right now. We've been a bottom dweller, you know, for quite a while in football. But then in basketball, where we have a tremendous history and we've won a national championship in '94, and we were the winningest program in the 1990s. But then we had quite a bit of a lull there. And then more recently, you know, show my bias. I think we got like the best basketball coach in the country right now, John Calperi, a guy who I used to hate and think, oh, he's a to, you know, I used to demonize, kind of like going back to politics. Right. He wasn't on my team, so he's bad. And everything he says, I'm going to view through the lens of I'm against him. And now that he's here at Arkansas, I'm like, that's a pretty good dude, you know, and his players love him. And I I'm seeing his genius. So I I think that I don't know even where I started that point originally. Did you follow anything?

Tradition, Winning, And Calipari;

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Well, and and well, I'll I'll say with obviously we're biased toward God Caliper, but I think you think people would agree across the country on you may need a guy like that to help write the rules right now for for for this game. And um, because yeah. You you definitely and and and and I think Cali Perry's got so many good, especially one-liners and and you know, he's talking about, you know, the the the team they go against, you know, a couple weeks ago and had the 26-year-old asked his three kids and his wife, you know, he's got he's got some really good points on on those kind of things. We can't, you know, we we have changed college athletic athletics into professional athletics if we're being honest about it. But that but you but you still can't let that go on forever. We can't we can't have kids playing seven, eight, nine years just to get just to get a paycheck. So I think that's one of the biggest things in my mind that they that they've got to get a solution on because, you know, and it started even with some of COVID and and things as well, you know, to where these kids were affected. And if you're affected academically or, you know, uh, you know, something like that were to happen or an injury, I get clearing that player to maybe give them an extra year of eligibility. But when we're talking about, again, uh a guy with three kids and a wife, and and he's trying to play a seventh year of college basketball or trying to come back from the professional ranks. Um, I think that's where you're you're kind of crossing the line and going to make it challenging.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Yeah, and I think to kind of um go down the road for a second of like why I really like sports, particularly college athletics, I love the competitiveness. And uh, you know, sometimes when I'm sitting there watching uh a sporting event, and my wife's probably wondering like, why is he so invested? Like she's a fan, but I'm like living and breathing on every play. A lot of it is it's a it's a escape for me for my day-to-day, you know, got to be a leader in my business and carrying the weight there. But then it's also a way for my brain to stay active and kind of say, hey, would I have made that move? You know, would I have put that player in? And I think you're the same weight. To me, it's a release of aggression that in a what I generally healthy way. I mean, we can, but as opposed to what you did when you were, you know, 16 years old, and your aggression usually came out against another person, you know, and you got disrespected. Now we're gonna get in a fist fight. I didn't get a lot of you probably got more fist fights than I got in. I was a lover, not I wouldn't, I really wasn't a lover either, but you get the point. But you see what I'm saying about I think sports at its best is a release for people to do.

Eligibility Limits And Professionalization;

SPEAKER_01 24:39

I think it is. I think it probably you know shows uh whether good good or bad, maybe even some character things, whatever uh, you know, I think at this stage of my life being such a like you a sports fanatic, um, I notice myself now and how I reacted after we won or how I reacted how we lost. And, you know, and and and you know, and trying to find the opportunities and what you know, we could have done this different or that different, or if this a lot of times it's if this one thing would have happened um different than well and then but it's the same way on on on the on the other end when you are winning.

Why Fans Care: Escape And Grit;

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Um well and I think I didn't know we were gonna go here, but you reminded me uh it's so and if you listen to the first episode with us, uh I talked about how Scott and I became really close in 2018 when we went to the College World Series. And so not not to rehash the old wounds, but that was a situation where the Razorbacks did one game one. So you got to win two out of three to be the national champion. And we we'd never won a national championship before. And and so we won game one, and then we're up in game two, ninth inning. There's a pop-up, and it lands right in the middle of three players. It's not really anybody's fault, but it's very unfortunate. And then we end up losing that game, losing game three. And so I walked away from that week with two states of mind. One was kind of my normal state of mind, which was just like, oh, the the Razorbacks are cursed, and I'm just so disappointed we didn't achieve this goal I wanted. But then my second was the one that was more lasting, which was, you know, I got to spend all week with a person who's now become like my new best friend. And that's where Restaurant Razorback Blood Brothers started, is somebody who was as passionate as me about it, and that was a shared experience, but then we're we won or lost together. And so that's where I adopted the phrase enjoy the show. Right. And now when I'm watching a big game, I try to breathe and I'm like, just try to enjoy the moment because the ball's gonna bounce anyway. And and these man, these guys, I know they're getting paid a lot of money, but they're still 18, 20, 22 years old. Like they're you remember yourself at that age, you know. You don't in national television audience, there's so much pressure. I mean, I can't even, I can't even imagine, right?

Shared Loss, Friendship, And Resilience;

SPEAKER_01 27:09

No, and that's and then yeah, and for me, it you don't think I'm crazy. Obviously, would have loved for the Razorbacks to win the national championship that year. But I feel like it's something brought me and you even closer together. You said that the loss brought us closer than the win would have. Probably. We yeah, we you know, it was it was we faced adversity in essence with each with each other and and and side by side. And I think part of what's been beautiful with our friendship is I thought I think we could see those things would lead into other parts of our lives. Yeah. You know, and and and and stuff too. I mean, you're a man that helped name my youngest child that you know spoke at our wedding and and um and and all that I think was birthed from from facing that that advertising. We we face adversity in in in business and our personal lives. Though though again, though, those are probably even more special kind or way more special conversations in the politics and and even the razorbacks. And and uh so yeah, I think, I think that's a a special thing that we we were able to encounter um together. And and again, again, back to relating it all to college athletics today. Um that's probably what's that's probably why you got viewership up and so many people excited. I mean, imagine an Indiana football fan that has gone to the stadium for 50 years and and now they are they are national champions. Um you know, again, being very against paying them all the money and everything at first, I've come kind of come around on it, you know, a little bit now because now it's not just, I mean, it is always easy for players in football to go to Alabama or Georgia or in basketball to go to Kentucky or Duke. Um, I think a lot of them now want to, you know, obviously some money's involved, but but they they may want to go trailblaze their own path. And and it kind of you know incentivizes your administrations. They they better be some dang good business people too. They've they better not just be good at at athletics and and and what kind of show we're gonna put on with that and how we're gonna build rosters and those things. You better have a heck of a business mind to you. And that's where I think we have the general managers coming into play. All these, it's really, if we're thinking about it, it's it's it's been wild and crazy over the last five years, even, on everything that has been added to the pot when in regards to college athletics.

New Pathways, Administration As Business;

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Well, yeah. And I'm gonna draw the show to a close with kind of summarizing what I think we've talked about. So we started talking about, you know, how Stephen A. Smith might be potentially might be a disruptor in the same way that Donald Trump was. And maybe if not him, it's someone else, kind of opened a door. And then we got into our love of college athletics, which I think is really coming back to the point of life in general, and I would just say capitalism is kind of a clarifying thing. You cannot be complacent in anything you do. Like there's just there's no, like with AI now, it's gonna, it's gonna absolutely replace some people. Those people are just gonna have to do something else. They're gonna have to evolve or die. I mean, that's how this thing works. And I think where we ended there on college athletics is there's some, there's were some athletic directors and people who thought they had a pretty cushion situation. Now they're realizing like, I I better evolve or I'm not gonna have a job. And the product is probably better. They're spending a ton of money, but you know, except when they call you and I to get the money, like we don't what are we? And they do. They do we're not the big guys, though. So all right, we're gonna we're gonna have to end it. Uh we're gonna have to end part two with my uh my restaurant razorback blood brother Scott Davis. Thanks for coming on the podcast today. Had a lot of fun. Yeah, we'll we we'll have you back. Uh for this week, uh I want to appreciate and say thank you to everybody who listened to the POV of POBIS, but