If You Send Me

From country to country, back to another country, and then all the way down the American coast, this episode with Grace Horn is a must listen. The conversation is full of vibrant self discovery and how much this personal benefit inevitably blesses those around you. Join Grace and DuBose as they gain a new friend in one another and choose to be curious in their own thinking. Whether it's asking God before jumping into a gifting, or learning to accept how we were made to be, we are ALL in process. It would be tough not to take away some gold after listening to these two talk.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Welcome to the Something to Consider podcast. I'm sitting across from a beautiful human. You can't see her, but I'm thrilled I can. And her name is Grace Horn. Hi, Grace. Hello. Can you tell us who you are, please, and who you love in this room very, very much?

SPEAKER_04 1:02

I'm Grace Horn and I love Chelsea Locklear very, very, very, very much.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Yeah. So we're gonna learn with Grace today because she has said so many amazing things for the last apparently what three hours? Is that right? Yeah. And we just now decided to start recording. So that said, we're off to an adventure. So wait, back to drinks. So Coke's number one, bar none. Did you hear this?

unknown 1:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Yeah. Oh yeah.

unknown 1:29

I hear everything you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

So what's the second then? Coke zero. Oh. She made okay. Never mind. Blasphemy.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

I mean, like, sometimes I do crave Dr. Pepper.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Diet or regular?

SPEAKER_04 1:41

No, regular.

unknown 1:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:43

I like this kid so much. So yeah. It just depends. But Coke, yeah, hands down. I've tried, you know, the seltzer waters and like, oh, I should just get my fizzy. It doesn't work, does it? No, it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Yeah, there's because there's no cocaine in it. There's no cocaine, there's no sugar. And that just is sadness. Do you want to know something that I find to this day to be ridiculously funny and so sad? Is my mom's grandmother had an opportunity to invest in this thing called Coca-Cola.

SPEAKER_05 2:16

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

And she said, apparently, she's not here to defend herself because she's with the Lord. Okay. Yes, my great grandmother. Yeah. And she said, I don't know who would drink that syrupy stuff or whatever she said. But basically, who in the world's gonna drink that? Well, let me tell you that she did every day. Oh my god. So we could have been we could have been really rich and we could be having this conversation in like a New York sky rise, but no. Here we are.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

Dog on it. There we are. I mean Charlotte's permit.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

I'm just saying my great-grandmother could have really changed. We could have been like a million several millionaire. We could have several millionaire.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Several millionaire multi. No several millionaire is how we do this for the number one.

SPEAKER_07 3:05

I was saying clapped.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Yeah, I did. I love it so much.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

Alright, where were you born? Oh. Um, I was born in Anderson, Indiana. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Which is not surprising, which is why I'm doing this because I get to be curious about everything. One of five.

SPEAKER_04 3:23

One of five.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

Dead middle.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

Well, kinda. No, I'm not. That's a lie. You lied. Okay. Yeah. I'm the fourth. Sorry. You're six. Because there's a split. So there's my two older siblings, ten-year age gap, and then three of us. It's on the middle of the younger three. So I always say I'm the middle child, but I'm not.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

You're the middle of the second set.

SPEAKER_04 3:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

So really took a decade break. Yes, they did.

SPEAKER_04 3:44

Yeah. They felt like the Lord, they were done after two.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Jokes on them. Okay. Ten years later. And even five. Okay, so you grew up there.

SPEAKER_05 3:52

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

And then so wait a second. When did England happen?

SPEAKER_04 3:56

So I was born there. Then after Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans in 2005. Okay. Yep. So my parents they went down there very soon after that and did disaster relief. Okay. For a little bit. And then they moved, they came back. And when I say a little bit, I mean like a couple weeks or something.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:15

They came back and felt the call for missions. The first place we went was down to New Orleans. We were there for a summer, did disaster relief. And then from there, we basically went over to Wales, did missions training, and then went to North Africa. Okay. Then we went back to Wales. Got it.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

So in 2005, I went to New Orleans for hurricane relief. If we cross paths, I'm now inspired to go through scrapbooks.

SPEAKER_04 4:47

So my parents were like the lead, lead, lead leaders. Okay. And then they had, I don't remember how many college kids, post-college, there was maybe like 18 of them or 20 of them. I don't, I honestly don't remember. They came down to be lead group leaders. So when churches would come and bring their youth groups, yeah, one of the 20-year-olds that were over my parents, they would lead that church group.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

I 100% had to cross paths. I recognize there were so many people, but New Orleans is only so big.

SPEAKER_04 5:19

Yeah. So and we had yeah, thousands of people come through.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Oh my gosh, I bet. Yeah. This is all I remember. It was ridiculously hot. Yep. It smelled rancid.

SPEAKER_04 5:29

Yeah, you could like throw up when you would open up those fridges when you were gutting houses.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. We would tape them shut, and I hope never they opened, and every once in a while. Never they opened. I just said a new thing.

SPEAKER_04 5:39

I hope they never they opened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

So did you go to base camps? Like were you at like tent cities?

SPEAKER_02 5:46

So we went to I have got to remember this. I was so 2005, I was 15.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

Yeah. So that's when it hit. So we went 2006, is when we would have been there, the summer of 2006.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

I feel like we were there 2005. I could be lying. I'm gonna find out.

SPEAKER_04 6:05

Okay. Because 2005 it hit and it was like terrible and wretched. Yes. And it was like, but nothing was happening. Like I don't think they were sending like groups down there yet.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Because it was so. It might have been the summer after.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

When we got there, it had been nine months or something since it had hit, and like hardly anything had happened. Done and done. It was still a disaster.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

I'm trying to remember. Maybe you'll remember. But they would paint like an X on the house. And then they would like this was if there were dead animals, dead bodies, dead. I remember that being very, very interesting. I feel like I slept on an air mattress on the floor of a church. Yeah, probably. Yeah. And then they would wake us up at five o'clock in the morning with more energy than I've ever seen a human have in my entire life.

SPEAKER_05 6:49

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Okay, so basically they went and did relief. Yeah, by the bug. Came back and got y'all. Y'all went to New Orleans for the summer. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_04 7:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Okay, so from New Orleans you go to Wales. Yep. You're there for how long?

SPEAKER_04 7:05

We're there for a nine-month training.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Nice. So you were in Wales for nine months. How was that? How old were you?

SPEAKER_04 7:10

I was 11.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

I turned 11 there.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

You turned 11 in Wales. And then did you say North Africa?

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

How long were you there?

SPEAKER_04 7:19

We were there a couple years. How was that like? It's terrible.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Wretched. Eleven in Wales. So you were like 12 going to North Africa?

SPEAKER_04 7:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

So 12 till you were I it's kind of fuzzy.

SPEAKER_04 7:31

I went when I was 11 when we moved to North Africa.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

And then I was 13 when we moved out when we were there two years.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

I mean, those were pretty formative years to be in a very particular type of space.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Okay, what was so traumatizing?

SPEAKER_04 7:47

So we were in a very small village in North Africa, but it was at the base of the mountains. I guess in their standards, it's it's a little bit of a bigger town because the villages in the mountains would travel down for like supplies and stuff. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Yeah, supplies are like you're a little bit of a hub, but still small.

SPEAKER_04 8:06

Yes. Okay. We're an hour outside of the big city.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 8:10

Um, and we're kind of a little bit of a hub for all the tiny mountain villages. So we were there, and it was very hard one to be white and cute, and female, uh-huh, and blonde. Uh-huh. Those are all not good things.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_04 8:27

A ton of attention. Okay. This like spiritually, so oppressive. So many things. Like, there was a time when there were the neighborhood boys, like, they would just run free. Like just packs. There's no parenting, there's no anything like that. But like they got a puppy one day and like stoned it outside of our window. Like that sort of thing as an 11-year-old. And then my brothers at this point are 13 and 8. Okay. And like, you know, begging, please can we save that puppy? Please let us go get that puppy. You know, just stuff like that. Just yeah. Traumatizing for little kids.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

It'd be traumatizing for me. I'm 36.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

Yeah. Fear, a lot of fear of being kicked out. We would have been kicked out of the country, most likely. Um, but we had friends who were persecuted for their faith. It was all in around us. The police knew us, like from a couple hours away. We had friends travel to another town, and they like the police department there knew about us in this other small little town. So people are watching you. People are watching you. Each neighborhood had like a person who reported what was going on. To the neighborhood snitch, if you will. And then they would report stuff to the police.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

So we always had to be very careful about who we had in our home. When we had them in our home, and just different protocols and stuff that to try, because we're wanting to share Jesus with people. Right. But you've got to be mindful and do it in a smart yeah. Okay. In a smart way. So for those aspects, my brothers had lots of different sort of like persecution in the streets that they would deal with. Um my one brother was attacked with a hammer one time, and like just different, just different things like that. And then I was sexually assaulted twice by how old were you? Um, I was 12. Two different incidences. I I I don't honestly I can't even tell you like the gap of the timeline if you asked my parents. Like how far in between they happened. Um so one one I was in a but at a bus stop. Okay, and then the other one I was like my family surrounding me, they still got through. It because when you when buses come, you like crowd. Yeah. So all kinds of things can happen. And then the other time was my older sister and her family were visiting us. Her daughter, who was four, three at the time. We were at a restaurant and she needed to go to the bathroom. And so we were sitting there having dinner in the big city. So I was like, I'll take her. And our waiter followed us and trapped me in the bathroom with her in there.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

So she remember any of that?

SPEAKER_04 11:21

No, she doesn't remember any of it. Although I've never asked her, she's never mentioned that she remembers something. I'd be curious. But that's a good question. Like she knows that story, she knows it was her with me. So I don't know if she'd really remember it, or if it would just be like when you hear a story as a child, like you have a memory of it, even if you don't, I don't know. There's this elusive thing, but no nothing concrete. Yeah. He had also like targeted me. So we'd gone into the big city and we had gone to get ice cream. And at the so the ice cream shop was at the bottom, and there's this restaurant on the roof of the ice cream spot. So when we went and got that ice cream, I noticed a guy looking at me from up there, like immediately saw him. And I was like, so uncomfortable. And I even said, I don't remember who I turned to and said something to, but I was like, that guy is just locked eyes on me and is not, his gaze is not moving no matter what. And he had this very sinister look in his face. We went back there for dinner, which I don't again, it's all I don't have any memory of like why we chose that place. I we had been there before and it was good food. Yeah. And it was right where we had done some, we were taking them to do some sightseeing stuff, and so it was like on our way back to the bus station. I don't really know why. And as like an 11 12 year old, I wasn't thinking like, oh, I'm not, I don't want to go there. Right. Because there was a guy. I didn't know if he worked there, I didn't know if who like anything about it. But yeah, so then we went up there and he was and they assigned him as our waiter. I don't remember if in that moment I recognized him. So then we went to the bathroom. He comes and does stuff, and then I am totally in shock. For one thing, I have my three-year-old niece, so like the only thing in my mind is protect her, stand in between her. I have no idea what's happening. So then we go back to the table and he continues to be our waiter for the remainder of the day. And you don't say anything to anybody. I can't speak. Okay, you're you're in shock in Charlie. Total shock, cannot speak. So I sit down and my again, I think it was my mom who like looked at me and was like, Are you like what happened? Are you okay? And I was like, No, I'm not okay. And and she's like, What happened? I'm like, I I can't talk. Like, I can't talk. Because he like continued to be present, be present. Yeah, so healing-wise, I mean it's just been a massive journey. I struggled, I've struggled a lot with that specific culture, culture in general, and then men from that culture. I have I have to work really hard to not have like preconceived uh assumptions or ideas, yeah. Or to feel safe. Like I I've had to work really hard at my body's physical reaction to things, like just based on by what people look like, and I like don't want that to be a thing. Sure. But I've had to really like learn how to not my body to not respond to those things. Do you freeze up? Like there is a freeze, but I'll feel like my heart rate elevates almost immediately. High, high adrenaline spike. I get really shaky, and your body remembers. My body remembers.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

Yeah. So again, I feel like I've had a lot of healing and it's way, way, way, way, way better now. Sure. But for years, yeah, it was really it was bad.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Well, that's also like healing's not linear. I feel like so many times we want to make it a straight line. Yep. And it's just not. And sometimes it's a big ass circle. And sometimes, usually, at least in my experience, looks like a heart heart rate.

SPEAKER_04 14:50

Looks like a wave. And in different seasons, like things show up, and you're like, oh, oh, there it is again. Like, I need to in this scenario, I do need to work that out. Like getting married, and like my sexuality and marriage, and like, okay, how is that gonna affect? You know, so that looks different than trying to heal from as a 12-year-old girl through high school to like now you're married. What does that look like? And how do you like navigate those things? And so it's different layers of conversation and healing and having a wonderful husband.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Well, thank God, as you should. Yeah, there's also something that I have found interesting as I've gotten older, which is there are people who will make you feel safe regardless of the traumas you carry that they're unaware of. Yeah, and I and those people really are a gift. Usually they've had to deal with hurt themselves, but there's a there's a tenderness and a kindness that comes because those types of people are amazing, and they're the ones that kind of step in to help heal, and a lot of times that you don't even know sometimes you need it. Because I would imagine, especially getting married, having to learn new things, there were probably trigger points you didn't even know were going to be trigger points. Oh yeah, and then you're in it and you're like, Oh my gosh, you knew this was gonna be a thing, and now you've got a new wave that you've gotta work through. Good gracious.

SPEAKER_04 16:10

Which is why you have the conversations before you even get married, and be like, hey, so this is part of my story, and I don't know what's you know gonna trigger something or not, or what uh you know, this situation will trigger something, or you know, I don't know. So you have those conversations and Peyton has always been so uh understanding and patient and kind and empathetic and and gracious and all of it.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

I had somebody one time say say a sentence and I hope I don't butcher it, but it was basically like you don't have to understand anything to be able to care for the person that you can see in front of you suffering. Like if you love them, that that is all you need to understand.

SPEAKER_05 16:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

And you don't even have to agree. Like, there can just be, and that's obviously in a different context, but like if there is a way to be able to care for that person, you don't have to understand it. You just gotta know what you're looking at and then be able to be the safe space while they're getting to the other side.

unknown 17:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Alright, so 12. So a massive life event.

SPEAKER_04 17:13

Massive life events life event. Other than moving to an African country. I mean, that would have been enough by itself. Leaving all your friends and family 100%.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Yeah. I'll be fully transparent. I was sitting there going, I really hope that this story doesn't take this turn. And it did. Yeah. It turned. There we are. Yep. You go back to Wales. We do.

SPEAKER_04 17:32

So after that second assault, there Mom and Dad were like, all done? Yeah. So I mean, and there was all I mean, things were getting really bad in other areas with the family and the boys and okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

So there's multiple factors.

SPEAKER_04 17:46

There's multiple factors. And they would, I mean, I think everybody was in crisis mode. I mean, nobody was functioning well whatsoever. And there was all this pressure that, like, our family, we just moved there and we committed to running this center, and we committed to to the our missions organization that we were gonna be here, and we said we were gonna be here long term, and like so many different pressures, yeah, either self-inflicted or there were a lot of people that were very pro us getting out, especially under all the attacks that we had been experiencing.

SPEAKER_06 18:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:21

But there still was a level of, I think, for my parents in particular, that of failure and like gearing and preparing for several years, getting there, and then just imploding. And then all of just the trauma that their kids had gone through and that they were not able to prevent, which is a whole other level as a parent to carry that.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

That's like layers D.

SPEAKER_04 18:43

Trust the Lord, the Lord calls you to something, yeah, but you give up everything for that. You go there, you trust him, he asks you to trust him with your children, and that's what happens. So there is a lot to unravel and that and I'm sure and meeting with Jesus and the purpose and all of that, which some I won't know until heaven.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

But yeah, yeah. You were there for a total of six years?

SPEAKER_04 19:13

We were overseas for six years. Okay, so Wales, North Africa, Wales.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

So when you went back to Wales, how long were you all there?

SPEAKER_04 19:22

We were there for almost three years, I think then.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

And then when do you come back to the United States? We came back um in 2012. And you went back to which state? Indiana. You went back to Indiana.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

So I mean this. How in the hell did you end up in Florida?

SPEAKER_04 19:40

Because that's how y'all met. Yes. Um, so I had had a passion for worship for a long time, just music in general. And in Wales, I was a part of our worship team at our church. Also back in Indiana, where I grew up, I would be a part of the worship team there as well. Okay. So I just had a heart for serving, and I just assumed that it would be through music because I liked music and I wanted to grow and kind of pursue that. Academics, I was never passionate about academics. Okay. Um, my senior year of high school, which is was in Wales.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

I had gotten all of my credits that I needed to for like American high school. Okay. And so my senior year, I went to a performing arts school. Nice. Because I've always been interested in drama, musical theater, dance.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Oh my gosh, this feels so fitting. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 20:33

And was never like I never pursued that. Okay. Um, my family was very heavily sports. And then we moved overseas. So like there was no, there was no extracurriculars. Like my extracurriculars were mountain climbing, you know, rock, you know, going on hikes. And I loved climbing. So anyway, so I'd never really been able to pursue like something that I was had an interest in. Okay. So did the performing arts school. Then when we moved back to the States is when my brother uh went to college. Okay. So my parents weren't gonna do the like, hey, he's in America going to college, and the rest of the family units and Wales. We're not doing that. So we all moved back, and so just kind of pursuing and asking the Lord about like what was next for me. College wasn't, I had zero interest in going to college. Um and so we started looking at worship schools, and OE just was one of the top ones we found. And so my mom and I went and we did a tour down in February for Chelsea's first year. Okay. And so I actually met and recognized her before she did me because she was on when we did our tour day, yeah, it was like an artist day or artist lab or something. Okay. And so we were sitting in the room when she got up and sang an original song. So that we went and toured, and then I applied and got in, and then I went the next year.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

So then you were there together for a year? Yes. Okay. I am curious. Is there a memory that stands out to you from that year together in Florida that makes you laugh? I feel like y'all have several. Or it can be sweet. It doesn't matter. But I'm curious now. Take your time and think through it.

SPEAKER_04 22:15

Oh man, I mean, there's tons of memories. Are we all in the same hall? We're in the same house. Same house. Yeah, okay. Same apartment. For my birthday, my 18th birthday. Uh-huh. Or 18th? 19th. 19th. For my 19th birthday, they surprised me and uh took me to a drive in movie, which is like my favorite thing.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Where you can get a Coke.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

Exactly. Yeah, where I can get a cake. Pizza, a Coke. Yeah, it was a total surprise. Watched a war movie. Yeah, very intense war movie. And they made me a book. Was that you that headed that up? Yeah, of course it was. So I still have it. It's this big, thick book that has they people had been taking selfies with me throughout, like, I don't know, a couple weeks or whatever. And I didn't think a thing about it because at that point, like these selfies were kind of new and everyone was doing, you know, documenting the shows and stuff like that. And so then I get this book where people in my class and Chelsea's class had taken had the pictures of me and she developed them, and then they had written notes to me. And it was this it's this really thick book, and I still go back and look at it probably once a year.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

And that's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 23:35

It's amazing because she knew at words of affirmation was a love language, and so she got the whole class to participate. She also reached out to my family and got them to write notes and put them in there, and I literally sobbed because that was the first time I had been I had been away from my family ever. Oh and my family are like knitted. Like you can't, we're trauma bonded.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

We're trauma bonded.

SPEAKER_04 24:01

Because so, because when we got back to the States, my brother got sick and he had um chronic illness for 11 years. Good gracious. Terrible, horrible. I would go through North Africa over and over. But anyway, so he was two years into this sickness, which was just devastating. It's not even the word. Um, and so that was the first time I had been away from him.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:24

And I just hated it. It's like I couldn't breathe. It's just awful.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Yeah. What's your maiden name? Henson. Hensonisms. Um can you please explain goose to me?

SPEAKER_04 24:36

I don't even know. I don't know if it was a cousin or if it was my older brother who coined it. I don't, I don't know. I just have always been called goose. So if I called you duck, I'd get up and run in a circle.

unknown 24:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

There you go. I was really open. Well done. Touche. I'm so happy. Okay, so then, Grace, I don't know you super well. What I do know, I absolutely love. Um, Chelsea says that you're a treasure, and I think that's probably the understatement of the century. So we've had so many conversations today. Like I said, we probably could have started recording three hours ago, and then Chelsea would have been overwhelmed with the amount of content that she had to edit. But you've said several things that I've loved hearing. One, you're just a passionate human being, two, you're passionate about the truth. Three, it's easy to be passionate about the truth and not be transparent, but you are. And I love that too. Because it's the transparency piece and that testimony piece that to me makes the impact and helps lead the change. So your mama, how old's your little one?

SPEAKER_04 25:47

She'll be two next month.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Oh my gosh. Yes. So fun. Yeah. So as a mama, having experienced a lot of life, uh-huh. And and having to having to learn things in real time, somebody threw you a live football and said, best of luck. Now all the sports background.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

Thank you. Thank you. I love that. I'm obsessed with football. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Oh my god, I love her so much.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Where have you been, my whole time?

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Coke and football.

SPEAKER_04 26:13

Coke football.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Coke and football. What more do you need? I know. So being a mom, being a mom in this world, there's lots going on. Tell me what you've been learning. Because I would imagine that in order to learn how to be a parent, you've also had to learn probably more things about you. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. So what have you learned about you?

unknown 26:33

You started reading that book about introverts.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Oh, yes. The name is called The Powerful Purpose of Introverts. That book changed my life. My home, even before we went on the mission field, our house was always open. So we would have different people from all walks of life come and stay in our home if they needed a place to stay. Our friends, like if they lost their house or something like that, would come and stay if they were in between jobs. We had total strangers come, like a mom with her two kids on the run, come stay with us. We had a family who lost everything in New Orleans come and live with us before we we moved to New Orleans. My cousin came and lived with us. My my sister and her husband, they got married. They went on the mission field for a short bit and then came back. They lived with us. We just constantly had y'all were a safe house.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

You were an active safe house.

SPEAKER_04 27:29

So and my parents love people very, very well and very intentionally. And so that's what our life was. And then we go on the mission field, and you kind of like leadership, Christianity, mission field. There's a lot of things tailored to being an extrovert in those things. And so I found myself like feeling guilty or like it was something sinful if I leaned into some of my introvertedness, or if I didn't want to do something, I'd be like, well, it's the motivation has to be because I'm lazy or because I don't love those people enough, or because that's just like my flesh talking when like the Lord wants me to go out and share the good news with all the people, and like I want to stay and cuddled up on my couch and not talk to anybody actually today, or be kind or anything, you know. Uh-huh. Survivor. Survivor. Yes. My third favorite thing. Yes. There was a lot of my yeah, a whole the whole majority of my life was very much in an extroverted world. Okay. And my family, we're kind of split, half are extroverts, half are introverts, but highly, highly, highly introverted. So my dad is very extroverted. My mom operates like an extrovert. She is not, but she operates like an extrovert. Several of my brothers are extroverts. Anyway, so dominating that way.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:53

So when I found this book and I read it, and it was about how the Lord has made you different and unique, and how there's powerful purpose in being an introvert for the kingdom, and you can still love people and want to share the gospel, and it's gonna look very different than what you're used to, or what is standard or like even praised in the church or you know, in mission field or whatever. I just was like totally freeing, and I need to reread it actually, because it's been a couple years since I read it, and I think that was like three years ago. Yeah. Yeah. So I need to reread that book. Did it feel performative? It was genuine because I genuinely care and love for people deeply.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

It was performative, so it's performative for people, but it was more so performative because I thought that's what I had to do to please God, which is not true. As I have grown in knowing Jesus and who he is and how he has made me, and like his heart for me, and that I have also value. And he's made me a certain way. I don't have to, I'm I he didn't make me like so and so. He didn't that he didn't give me that gift, he gave me this gift. I shouldn't despise and think that this gift is wrong when he gave it to me. It's like, no, I have to learn how to how to steward that gift and not be like, well, that one's more flashy, and that's what I've been told is more glorifying to you. So clearly something's wrong with me, because this is this can't be my gift that you've given me when it has been. So the revelation of like, no, he gave me those gifts, and that is what I'm called to do is what brought the freedom.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

You grew up in an environment that was exceedingly extroverted, you were deeply introverted. And because of that dynamic for you, it probably forced you to step up and out and into that extroverted side, which probably in turn left you pretty gosh darn tired. So burnt out. So burnt out. Yeah. And so when you got that revelation and realized you had permission not just to be different, but like the Lord delighted in how he made you. Ooh girl. Ooh girl, okay.

SPEAKER_04 31:00

Yeah. So it probably delights in me. Yeah. And he delights in how he made me. That was not that, yeah, I did not have that concept.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

So now that you do and you've learned that, like when you look at your kiddo, how does that change what you like when you're thinking through things with her? How has that shifted? Maybe parenting, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 31:21

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

For you. And I also know she's little, so this will shift as she gets older.

SPEAKER_04 31:26

But yeah, I'm pretty sure I'll have a whole nother layer of like as she gets older, it'll bring it all about, and I'll have to relearn a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 31:35

Um, I think it's given me maybe some freedom to just be with her. I never gave myself freedom to just be. And so, especially in the younger ages, she's very busy. So she's like, eyes are open, we are go, go, go, go, go, go, go.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

So I'm full, it's very full, but to just um have value in just being with her, yeah, and in her presence, and like try not to rush through and have all these things that I have to do. It's like, no, she is what I have to do.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 32:05

Like, this is what the Lord has given me in this season to do.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:09

And a lot in her like newborn stage when you're like not sleeping, yeah, and you're like, you have the next day, and I would like panic and be like, You have to go to sleep. Like, please, Lord, let her go to sleep. And yeah, you want to go back to sleep yourself because you're exhausted.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:24

But it's also like, what do I have to do tomorrow? This. This. This is what I'm called to do in this season.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:32

And so I'll be curious as she gets older and as there's more and more activities and more and more relationship building with her. She is an extrovert. Okay. Hands down. Okay. So she's like daddy. She's like daddy. Okay. Yeah. So I'm yet again in an inter extrovert home as an introvert. Yes. So I would love to bring, like, I want to be a presence of calm and peace. And like a deep breath for people. So that's what I want to carry. Like, that's what I want my home to feel like for people.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:08

That's what I want to be for my husband. That's what I want to be for Daisy. Is just like yeah, just a calming presence, not stirred up, not living in this like high adrenaline, people pleasing. Am I doing enough? Striving.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 33:25

But just being and just having a peace. And I a piece.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

Yeah. That was well said. I feel like so many of the things that we're learning in real time as growing adults when we look at our parents, is we go, they obviously did the best they could too with where they were, with what they knew. Oh yeah. And and then, of course, the whole the irony is you need a village. Yeah. And this is probably a whole different podcast segment, but like the nuclear family versus the village concept that we have in all of these things where you are meant to have community. There are there are gaps that you're gonna have, regardless of how phenomenal of a parent you are. Oh, yeah. One of the things I have grown to appreciate, and my mom really grew in this, but I was an adult when she got there, which was there was freedom and and grace and room for me to be where I needed to be. And that could be physically or spiritually or emotionally or mentally or whatever the gap.

SPEAKER_05 34:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

But I noticed it a lot in things where, especially in southern culture, there is the you do show up for X, Y, and Z. You are expected to attend. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And what she was learning, and then what she gave permission and grace for was you are your own person with your own life. And you need to go where there's peace. And if there's not peace for this, even though this is the quote unquote expectation, and by the way, those expectations aren't even bad things. It might be this graduation or this birthday party or this gathering or whatever it is. But giving people permission to be like, hey, if you need to stay home curled up on the couch with your blanket, there's freedom for that. Like, and to your point, you know, I love rainy days now as an adult, but it was it was because as a kid it was permission to not have to do a bunch of things.

SPEAKER_04 35:26

Oh my gosh, yes. I couldn't have said it better myself.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Like, and what you don't realize is, and as an adult, I still have to force myself. If I'm at home by myself, I am not sitting down. Like, unless I'm reading a book, which ironically enough is also an activity, I am I'm doing something, I am repairing something, I am fixing something, I am on the move because inadvertently, without bad intention, the rest had to be earned.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

And I am, and I have learned since I've gotten older, I am an introvert. What is it called now? An extroverted introvert?

unknown 36:02

Ambert.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Ambervert. Ambervert. Yeah. Amber. Somebody one time made a comment, and I was like, this is hilarious. They're like, is everyone autistic now? And somebody had the best response, it might have been an Instagram quote, I don't remember, but they said, no, there are always this many stars in the sky, but we didn't always have the telescope. So like we're learning language and clarity for things that have always felt very evasive.

SPEAKER_04 36:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

And now they're becoming more foundational. And what's helpful is as those things are evolving, we get to learn with them. And then we get to do something different. And the hardest thing that I think I'm learning is there's always a middle ground. And a lot of times, because of the culture we're in or the things we're having to heal from, there's a massive pendulum swing to offset what was the other bad side of that pendulum swing.

SPEAKER_04 36:50

Which leaves you with a whole other set of issues.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

A hundred percent. And then our kids, what the hell? You know, um no. So we're all learning and growing, and then that process. But as your friend, I'm gonna use that term slightly loosely, but I'm gonna claim you for the rest of your life. Yep. Um I'm thrilled that you've learned it because then it's permission, because when you have permission to be peaceful in the way God made you, then it empowers you to take care of other people in a way that you probably couldn't before. Because you were surviving some stuff too, I'd imagine.

SPEAKER_04 37:20

And I think like I definitely haven't learned it. I'm like still learning massively. But it's something that like I need to be returned to that because the flip side of that is like I can like with my heart and desire to s be a safe place for people or to be different or to care so well, then it's so easy, it is so easy to fill the time and not ask the Lord if like there's the needs are so heavy all around, and if I'm inundated with need and I respond in such a high way of intentionality every time, that still causes the burnout. And it's like if it's not what the Lord's asking me to do, if I'm stepping out of my own strength or like my own desire to care for someone and the Lord didn't ask me to do that, then I'm right back at that burnout over and over. So, like in this season of my life, I'm surrounded by people who have kids, having more babies, need meals, need their kids watched, need are having medical crises with their kids, having, you know, just different things like that. And so all issues with pregnancies and pregnancy loss and pregnant. So there's uh every I feel like there's so many different ways and needs. And I have to ask the Lord, like, am I supposed to take them a meal today? A lot of times my gut reaction is I just respond.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:46

And so I'm like, okay, I'm gonna, you know, hey, I will uh drop your kids off. I'm gonna watch them for two hours. You need to go take a nap.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 38:55

My friend, yeah, was up all night long or has a doctor's appointment. Like, I'm coming to your house, you're not allowed back out of your bedroom until noon, or you will stay in your bed. You will stay in your bed, yeah. Um or hours and hours of phone conversations, yeah, talking with people. Yep. So so their needs are real, and so that's where I struggle. Is like there are real needs, active desperation and hurt and pain and ways that I know I can help. But if the Lord hasn't asked me to do that specific one that day, or like I need to trust him, and like I can pray for them, I can reach out to them, but like that's what I'm supposed to do, like, not anything further than that. If I continue to neglect asking him, then I get burnt out very, very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 39:45

Um, and so it is it's constantly bringing those issues to the Lord and saying, what is my peace in this to this puzzle? Because I want to bring peace, P-E-A-C, uh-huh to people, but if I'm burnt out, then it does neglect my the peace in my home, the peace for Daisy, my yeah, my um cope at the end of the day with Peyton, like all of those things. And so I feel things very heavy for people and when people are in crisis or in pain or hurting.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:19

And just because I know or have the ability to act doesn't mean the Lord's asking me to. And so that's a a balance that I'm desperately trying to learn.

unknown 40:29

Learn. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Somebody one time said a comment that just because it's a good thing doesn't make it a god thing. And I think that language is starting to get a little more popular, which I appreciate. But sometimes it's we take care of the person who's taking care of the person who's in crisis.

SPEAKER_04 40:45

Oh my gosh. It's called member care.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

But there is something to be said because religion a lot of times will take a good thing, call it a god thing, and then it's used against you because it was never supposed to be you. So there's a lot of wisdom in saying, hey, because also there's multiple people for a reason. And sometimes the Lord's asking somebody else to step up and out and into something. And if we've made the assumption that we need to go do the thing, and I deal with this too, by the way. I'm pretty sure if you're empathetic and you love and you care about people and you're human, this is a this is a tough one. Yeah. Because it's I should, I have to.

SPEAKER_04 41:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

And I don't, who else will? If I don't, who else will? And now you've given yourself a messiah complex. Yep. And some of the hardest things in my life have been not being able to be for somebody what I really hoped I could be.

unknown 41:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

And sometimes that's been the extreme of in order to keep this healthy or in order to be able to go in a different direction, I actually have to leave this behind and go a new way. And things around that person or that circumstance could have even been really good things. But the best outcome for everybody for any number of reasons is going, this is gonna end up for someone else. And because I love you, I've got to go this way. Or to your point, it's as simple as saying, because God's asking something of me that's different, hey, I love you and I'm for you. Yeah. But your lasagna tonight is coming from the Smiths. Right. You know, like it can be any of those extremes. But the funny thing is, is they're big deals in the spirit, and we we tend to forget that sometimes. And we're also gotta remember, like it is hard. I'm a perfectionist, I'm a high performer, I'm a firstborn, I'm a blah blah blah. All of the things probably you go to therapy for. But there is this there's a part of that gifting that is a hundred percent god-given.

SPEAKER_05 42:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

And so now it's learning, kind of like how you're learning, I'm an introvert. It's there's things about the way I've designed that are absolutely God-given. And he delights in how he made me. He also loves me enough to help me not hurt me. And the crazy thing is, is I think there are people who genuinely believe that the devil doesn't go to church with us. He sits on the front row and sings. He will use the good things against you more than he'll use evil against you, and we forget that too. Um, and so anyway, that is a great lesson that you're learning. Yeah. Because it also translates to probably everything you touch in your life. How your parent, how you're married, how your friend, all the things. Yeah. And if you feel like you have to fit a mold that isn't how God made you.

SPEAKER_03 43:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Um, and there's a lot of grace that it takes to be able to give yourself room to consider that something different than the environment that you trusted the most, too. Because if you're that close to your family and y'all all love each other that much, and you're matching what most of them exude, and then there wasn't a ton of language probably around how you're so different and unique, then you're having to learn it now and then learn how that translates. Yep. Um, which is a very long-ass-winded way of saying kudos to you for taking the time to learn the thing that happened and thought to do it the right way. And I say right way a little bit loosely, but right. That permission piece is a big deal. Yeah. And giving people permission to be able to do the same is a big deal. Where have you two been my whole life? Florida? Indiana. Overseas. I do want y'all to know that during COVID there was something that popped up that made me laugh out loud because it said, if you could get rid of COVID by getting rid of a state in in the United States of America, which state would it be in why Florida? Was like, what is caboo? Wow. Oh dear. Anyway, there's so many other places this could. We could probably do this for four years, Grace. Yeah, there's just which is extreme, but I've enjoyed every second of this. Alright, I'm gonna pause this somewhat slightly and I'm gonna ask you a handful of questions because I'm curious.

SPEAKER_04 44:58

I will try.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

Chocolate or vanilla? Oh dear. You can't say swirl, it's like cheating.

SPEAKER_04 45:05

I mean, can I say it really depends. Oh man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Just if you have an option in front of you, chocolate cake, vanilla cake, chocolate ice cream, vanilla ice cream. Okay, chocolate cake, vanilla ice cream. Okay, what's your favorite dessert of all time?

SPEAKER_04 45:22

Coke.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

It's a phenomenal answer.

SPEAKER_04 45:27

Sugar cookies. Really? Yes, with really bright sprinkles. Colorful?

unknown 45:31

The kind with the frosting on top?

SPEAKER_07 45:33

From Target Republic's those baked ones?

SPEAKER_04 45:36

Um, not those, like I make them at home. They're the soft sugar cookies. There's the soft sugar cookie with the icing that hardens a little bit over time and then you put sprinkles on it. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Uh do you like the beach or do you like the mountains? Mountains. What kind of mountains are we talking? Like rolling hills or like steep peaks.

SPEAKER_04 45:52

Now listen, I I love the steep peaks.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 45:57

I've only ever witnessed those in North Africa. Um, that's where we were at. And here you just get like rolling hills. I've never been way out west. I would love to. I would love to go to Switzerland. Like absolute bucket list. That's where my mansion and heaven will be located.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

That's where my mansion and heaven will be located. Yep, on earth. Well, we'll be in Switzerland.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

It'll be that's what it'll look like.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

I love this entire conversation for us.

SPEAKER_04 46:21

And snowed in, so you don't have any obligation to go anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Ugh my girl. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 46:26

All right. I can't get out. I'm sorry. There's 12 feet of snow blocking the door.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

All right, here's a question. Would you rather take a road trip? Would you rather get on an airplane or would you rather ride a train? Road trip. Road trip. Yeah. Are you back seat or front seat?

SPEAKER_04 46:43

Depends on who's driving. I do get slightly car sick sometimes. Okay. So we're going to get a good idea. So they have to be a good, good, good driver.

unknown 46:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

Okay. I like where this is going so far.

SPEAKER_04 46:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

Um, would you ever adopt a kid?

SPEAKER_04 46:56

Um, I do not personally have like a passion for that, but if the Lord asked me to, I absolutely would. That makes sense to me. All right. What's your favorite sport?

SPEAKER_02 47:05

Oh, football. I'm assuming to watch. Or do you also like to play it?

SPEAKER_04 47:10

Uh no, to watch it. To watch it. American football. American football. We're in the World Cup. We are in the World Cup. Oh, that's true. Not football. Football. Football. Football.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

Y'all ready for some football?

SPEAKER_04 47:21

Yeah, not football. Not football.

SPEAKER_02 47:23

If you could have any meal on planet Earth tomorrow, what would it be?

SPEAKER_04 47:27

Oh, see, that's hard because I'm not bougie about my food. I love me some like homemade fajitas. Did you say homemade fajitas? Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 47:35

Mexican food is the is the one I've seen you be most prominent in with your genre of food.

SPEAKER_04 47:40

Yeah, I think so. Is it? Yeah. Okay. Can you speak another language? No.

SPEAKER_05 47:45

If you can do so much.

SPEAKER_04 47:48

I used to. I used to speak another language. Um in North Africa. I was partially fluent because I could understand most everything spoken to me. Uh-huh. And I could speak, I would say like 40-50% back to them. Okay. So I got around pretty well because I could I knew what they were saying to me. Oh, you were also probably really good age to like pick the to learn it, yeah. And then French. I did French for a couple of years too.

SPEAKER_07 48:14

Can you imagine her just speaking French to you?

SPEAKER_04 48:16

I don't want to talk about it. I can't handle it. Bonjour. Bonjour, ça va.

SPEAKER_07 48:20

Oh look at that. Oh, her eyebrows are strong. That left one.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

Où ça trouve la boulangerie? Oh. It is hot. Dad gummit. Do you remember being a certain age where your parents still surprised you with things because you forgot that they were human? I don't know why, but like I remember being nine years old. We were in Washington, D.C. We were at breakfast. Father and daughter are sitting at the other table across from us, and mom starts translating what they're saying to one another in French. And when you're nine, you're like, you speak French? Wow.

SPEAKER_04 48:49

Wow, that's like a superpower.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

It was so funny. I remember picking up a guitar and like playing it around at church because we were cleaning up the stage, and my dad sat at the drum set and started playing drums. And I'm like, You play drums? You know, it's like it's weird. You're cool, Blood. I know. Like this doesn't fit what's happening. If you could drive any car, what would it be?

SPEAKER_04 49:06

Any car?

SPEAKER_02 49:07

Any car.

SPEAKER_04 49:11

Um I don't I don't have a lot of care about cars. I'm really boring. Um, not boring in life, but boring with vehicles. I mean, I could, I mean, like I will never p spend money on a car. Like give me an old clunker. Because I just don't care. Fair enough. So truck. I like trucks.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Oh my gosh, I'm putting her in my pocket, keeping her forever.

SPEAKER_04 49:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:37

If you could be really good at some random skill, do you know what it would be?

SPEAKER_07 49:41

Oh, I know what it is. I know what it's dancing. Oh, you do? Well, I think I'm assuming you'd be Oh no. Like intensely good at dancing.

SPEAKER_04 49:46

Oh, yeah, that's it. What kind of dancing? Like the best. I wonder what they're the best hip-hop. Freaking hip hop. I all I want to be in life is a badass, and I'm not even close. There's nothing about me that's like that woman, that girl is a badass.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

I think that's also false.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

I would agree with you. Look at me.

SPEAKER_04 50:02

I am not a badass. I I want to be looked at as a badass. Okay, listen, aesthetically. Like a Missy Elliott music video.

SPEAKER_07 50:08

Aesthetically badass versus character badass are different things.

SPEAKER_04 50:12

Yeah, but I want aesthetically to be a badass.

SPEAKER_07 50:15

I'm saying I understand now.

SPEAKER_04 50:17

Yeah. She said that twirling her hair and a little bit. Exactly. It's just I'm not. I do. I just want to be like the most gangster hip-hop dancer ever.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

I don't know what answer I was expecting. I thought you were gonna tell me you wanted to be great at water polo or something. That's amazing. I thought you could be like fencing or like hip-hop dancing.

SPEAKER_04 50:36

I mean, if I could just I mean, I would pay a ton of money if I could just immediately get that skill. Dance in general, but hip-hop dance is the top, and then underneath that would just be dance. Okay, so in that vein, if there was an outfit that you wish you could pull off, what would it be?

SPEAKER_07 50:50

I mean street grunge wear?

SPEAKER_04 50:52

Yeah, like street grunge, but early 2000. Yeah. You know, like sweatpants with your high tops and like a crop top. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:00

I'm taking this conversation now to a deeper turn. Are we ready? Ready. So yeah, you you made a comment and you said that this had been the hardest year for you, body image-wise. Yes. And now I'm very curious as to why and what triggered it.

SPEAKER_04 51:14

Um, I think I've always struggled with body image big time. Okay. Um, I think it's due to the kind of culture that I grew up in, not in not maliciously or intentionally um doing it, but like putting so much emphasis and focus on having to be modest, having to, you're kind of afraid of your body as a female.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 51:40

Um, having to yeah, like help your brother not stumble, having all these opinions, and like weirdly having like other men talk about other women and how that's modest or not modest, and like girls, and and again, not in any like they're not trying to be sexual, but they just like voice their opinion on what they think, you know? Like someone's wearing leggings. Oh, you know, forbid exposed and their butts exposed. Yeah, or you so there's just lots of things like that in a lot of the families that I was around and grew up with. Um, and then you throw in an Arab culture. I think it stemmed from just being too aware of my body. And like in the hopes of I think the whole that whole early movement of modesty and purity was to m take the primary emphasis off of your body image, and it just actually enhanced it. It enhanced it, yeah. As a woman, yeah, and so so things like you know, I could we didn't grow up, I couldn't dance. I wasn't allowed to to take dance. Okay. Play basketball, I can't dance. You know, gymnastics clothes were immodest, and bathing suits. Oh, if Jeff, you want to get me on a soapbox. So, you know, like bathing suits, there's modest ones and immodest ones. And as a little girl, a young girl, I'm like, are you kidding me? Like I beg to differ. Like, if we're like that standard is ridiculous, but like there was always shame about skin exposure and just all kinds of stuff like that. So there's just like been this hyper-awareness of my body from a young age. So you put all of that into uh, and then you get pregnant and you go through postpartum, uh-huh, and your body changes a lot. And even if your body doesn't change like other people's bodies, or people are like, oh, but you've lost most of the weight, you know, like there's not like you look like exactly like you did before. My body is still changed to me. Like it's still not my body. There's lots of nuance and hidden things about my body that is not the same.

SPEAKER_06 53:43

Yeah, you've seen yourself naked your entire life.

SPEAKER_04 53:45

My entire life and be and being in my body, how it feels, you know, whether it looks that way, yeah, or like what I'm capable of doing, how strong I feel, how sturdy my core feels, so like my innards aren't gonna come falling out, you know, just like so many things. And so trying to learn the like, then there's this whole like bounce back culture too about having a baby and like, oh, I bounce back, and oh, like I'm gonna lose the weight, or oh, you know, it I'm I'm gonna come back better and stronger. And it's just there's so many things that you get confused in your mind about like okay, I know, I know I'm capable of getting back to what I was. So therefore, if I'm not there, that means that I have no self-control, and that I'm lazy, or you know, like I'm dissatisfied with my body because that's my fault. I'm totally capable of going on a diet, doing an exercise, not having the coke.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:48

Because that's what makes me fat. So then it's on me. And and then there's this whole, then there's the opposite side of like, that's ridiculous. You just had a baby. There's no way you will ever be the same. Have grace for yourself, embrace your new body, and all of those things. And so it's like, it's confusing that pendulum swing. That pendulum swing on how what am I saying to myself, what is my goal? And like what am where where's the line of like, yes, you can accept that because you're a postpartum, but you still are capable of that. Like, where's that gray area of my responsibility and my motivation or diligence or and so where I've kind of landed with it is yes, my body, like what the image that I have in my body of what I want, like I will never achieve. Not because I can't, but because like I would have to radically change my lifestyle and like make working out and fitness my life. And so that being the standard and what I have in my brain, and I'm everything I measure up to that falls short of that. So therefore I'm failing. Therefore, I'm again all the same things. I'm lazy, I have no self-discipline, yeah, I have no self-control with food. I have, you know, if I could just be this, if I could, you know, whatever, I could harness that. So that can't be my standard of what my image is. So what's blurry is what is my standard of image? Like, what am I going for? Postpartum self. Am I going for what I look like? Or am I going for like I want to be strong? Yeah. I want to feel secure in my body. I want to be able to lift my kids.

unknown 56:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:35

I want to be able to be active with my kids. I want to be able to pick up something large and funky off the floor and not tweak my back.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:42

I want to be able to not pee when I laugh. You know? Why am I working on my core?

unknown 56:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:49

So I don't pee. So that's a very different motivation. It is for free baby why I was working on my core. Right. Um, so that's but it still looks different, you know? And so it's just having grace with myself and not being disappointed in myself with where my body is compared to what I want it to be. And what I want it to be is not realistic or kind. So it's I've been trying to figure out like what do I go for? What will make me satisfied? First of all, well said. Really? Because I feel like I just went all over the place. You did it. Wow, because I feel like there's so much I feel like, oh man, I could have articulated that so much better.

SPEAKER_07 57:30

Well, that could also always be true. You can always articulate it a little bit better, but yeah, it doesn't mean the way you articulated it wasn't great. Yeah, no, it really wasn't great. It just means it wasn't perfect, but it was still great.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

Yeah. It's also a very broad subject.

SPEAKER_07 57:41

Like there's so many different yeah, and my brain's like pendulum swinging, even in your language talking about that. So it's such a broad stroke being specific with what's important to you.

SPEAKER_02 57:54

Yeah. No, you did well. That area. Body image is fascinating because you got the culture piece, you got the personal piece, you got the spiritual piece, what your parents set up for you, what your parents set up for you, how you've been traumatized. Um, and then to your point, those are great questions to ask, which is what is it for me?

SPEAKER_04 58:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:15

And what am I working towards? Um, because the biggest had somebody ask me a question one time because we were working through several things, and she said, Um, when we get to the end of X, Y, and Z, she's like, and you walk out this door, she's like, What are the things that feel the most important to you? And I the thing that just came up and out, I think it probably just came up and out of my spirit was I said, I want to feel at peace in my own skin.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:41

Like I just want to feel at peace in my body. Because I was so sick as a child, because I had different things put on me, inadvertently, intentionally, whatever.

SPEAKER_05 58:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

I I do know that both of my parents have been traumatized with imaging and some different things in their lives. And so that's certainly been a factor, which I don't think they woke up in the morning and had an evil chalkboard and said, here's the plan of how many, you know, they're living out of what they knew, doing the best that they could with the best of intentions, but it kind of goes back to that just because something is a good thing doesn't necessarily equate to that good thing translating correctly, and it can end up causing a lot of pain.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 59:20

This was my conversation with the Lord about something similar when it came to body image and all of that was I said, I want to I want to be what you want me to be in every capacity, and you're the one who made me. You made me. And so how I am, I want that to be a reflection of you. And what I have learned as I've gotten older is that reflection really doesn't fit the world we live in outside of obviously needing to be a human being to walk on planet Earth and have authority here. And as I've gotten older, I've realized like I can't tell you how many friends I've had to pick up off the floor, and I can't do that if I'm a hundred pounds. You know what I'm saying? Like they're just there's so many things about how He built me and made me. Yeah. And my question with the Lord has been hey, if that is how I've been made, because there's a part of your army that I'm meant to stand in, help me be healthy, help me know how to take care of my body. But if I'm on a mission from heaven on planet Earth, it's probably not gonna look like culture says it's supposed to. I'm probably gonna look a little different. And then learning how to get to a place where I'm okay with that, which is why that response was I want to feel at peace in my own skin, knowing it's supposed to look different.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:39

And I've been grateful for the ways it has been, but learning how to appreciate that and be okay with that has been aha. Yeah. It's it's north and south, they're not the same. Right. Yeah. And so it's like listening to you talk, it's like it's such a great way to think through it because you um are you blue-eyed? Brown, you're brown-eyed. To the listener who can't see Grace, she's beautiful and very hot. Um, but and Chelsea's nodding, and I think Grace is blushing, so here we are. But there is there really is like there, and Chelsea and I have talked about this before too, and I've talked about this with other friends. It's like there are people who are gorgeous, there are people who are beautiful, there are people who are pretty, there are people who are adorable, they're striking and exotic, and I mean we are all made so very differently.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:26

And what I've asked Were you saying I'm not exotic looking?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:29

I will say of all the descriptions, it depends on what country correct. A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:35

You look very exotic in normal.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

Okay, great. All right, that is absolutely sorry. Like, no, this is a hilarious conversation because we have we talked about this. Because I'm like Middle Eastern women to me, yeah, they look exotic to me. Yeah, yeah. But like, if I look at somebody that is Alabama, they tend to look like apple pie next door cute. Yeah, like you know what I'm saying? Like everybody's just and that's obviously massive, a massive generality, but yeah, yeah, but when it comes to translating like my role on planet Earth, it's like this is a little bit extreme and a little bit different. But if I were to describe a friend to the to them, I see them in the in the natural, but there's also this part where it's like I see the gifts that you have, I see the way you carry yourself, I see the way you stand up for people, I see the way that you're a warrior, and it's like there is a part of me that just when I see my friends, it's like some of them have braids that go down to their waist and a bow and arrow in their hands. You know what I'm saying? And it looks like their eyes are on fire because there's something about them that is so for justice and so for helping the marginalized, you know what I'm saying? It's like there's you know, obviously, like Chelsea's not walking around the kitchen in a breastplate. That would be kind of weird. But you know what? I'm probably used to it. You two breathless needs.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:56

Two breastplates of righteousness.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:58

Two breastplates of righteousness.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:01

The most righteous of breastplates.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

I just needed all I could get in the top, but it's a whole different mindset shift because if I want to fit in in my family dynamic, as far as expectations were set, in the culture I'm in, which is extremely southern, and women look very specific and very particular. Like I'm failing if we're checking things by the world standards, and I've spent my whole life being so sick of failing that then you start believing lies that, and I guess the best way I know how to say it is you are something you're not, or you want something you don't, or whatever else. And it's like, here's what I want. I want to wake up in the morning, and I I mean we can talk about it this way, but it's like I want to wake up in the morning and I want hell to be like, Well, shit, she's awake. This is a problem. Like when my feet hit the floor, I want them to be like, oh crap, because you're a threat. And and however that needs to look or appear in the natural is what I'm asking the Lord to help bring peace to for me. Because, but here's also the other piece of this: like, we were daughters of the king, we were meant to be adored and we're meant to be treasured. There are parts of me that I don't know, I saw this the other day, and it said, What happens when you meet a man that's more masculine and more driven and more whatever than you are? And it's like, for me, I'm like, I'll take a step back. Like, let's watch him step in. Kind of it's like I'm excited for that.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:25

Yeah, like to see you pick it up. Yeah, just through it, you go get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

But let's do this thing together. Yeah. But it's like one of my favorite stories are when you watch Viking warriors with their wives, and their wives are warriors right beside them, and they're going out to do a good thing, and we're gonna do this thing together. And it's like, yeah, but it's a big deal, it's a big deal because it's like you feeling comfortable and confident in your skin changes how you walk into rooms and atmospheres. Yeah, it changes where your time and your energy goes, it changes the way your heart breaks or doesn't.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:56

They're really, really, really good. So good, but it's also great prayers to those.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:00

They are.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:01

I was gonna say, and I've never thought like about pr praying specifically that he would equip my body for war, basically. It's what it is, yeah. You know what I mean? Like that's a different motivation. Yeah, I mean like Yeah, you know, it's like, okay, yeah, there's I am in a earthly body, but there like there's heavenly reason why I'm here and internally while each of us are here and the gifts that we have. And so, Lord, equip me and my body for what that purpose is here on earth.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

A hundred percent. We forget that a lot, and it's easy to forget that, but it's like, and that's one of the things that I love about Jesus, and when he's looking at his disciples, it's like he didn't teach them to pray for one will on earth and one will on heaven. Like, yeah, there's the will is one in the same, and your job as the believer is the authority to bring heaven to earth and live it out. And the sweetest way I know how to say this is when the Bible talks about lukewarm, it's like you can't do it half-assed. It is an all-in calling. And I but it's a whole it's a mindset shift because if I were to look at things with me and the things I've had to suffer from, and the ways that I've been sick, and the th and the scars and the things that's done to my body, it would be so easy to be discouraged to go, I this isn't gonna go back to what I wanted, or this isn't gonna become. Yeah, but what I have noticed with with that mindset shift is my body is doing things that are different because I asked the Lord for me to align with what he wanted heaven to be. And I don't think he cares if you wear jeans or a dress. I don't Think he cares. I don't I think there's so many things we say are highly important, and I don't know if they matter. I think he cares so much more about the heart, yeah, and the intent. And so it's like you were made to be a badass warrior on planet Earth to further the kingdom to do beautiful things on his behalf. And the whole point of being here is to take all the hearts with you. To say has been a game changer is probably an understatement.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:15

I don't think I realized how trapped and how suffocated I was because I had more reasons to point at the things that were breaking my heart.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:26

And I was so tired of my heart being broken for things that I couldn't control and I couldn't help. It didn't matter the surgery, the process, the shot, the medication, the whatever. And nothing changed. Yeah. Or it got worse. And I was like, the worst feeling in the world is being stuck in something you can't escape.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:45

It's like I can't go hop in another body. Yeah.

unknown 1:07:48

That'd be weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:49

That would be very odd. Freaky Friday. But like, and probably a very weird flex. But yeah. So it's so it's I'm having to learn how to be content and also grateful. Like when we go pool blood work, my doctors get so confused and they laugh because they're like, it's immaculate. It could not be better. And they're they're like, and just because it doesn't reflect in this doesn't mean it's not true. So having to live out of the truth that I know and being so grateful for the things the Lord's doing and the things I cannot see. And then living with a kingdom mindset that takes that energy and puts it in a place. And it's not that you don't honor the things that make your heart hurt, because you have to. It'd be very weird to not. But it's giving it a different framework to say, well, and that, I mean, ironically, with the something to consider, that's been my new thought that I've been considering is what does it look like to be at peace in my own skin, understanding I've been equipped for a world at war, and I can't look like the culture I'm in.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:49

Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's done dead on the ground. Wow. Good. That blessed me.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:01

I'm so glad because that's what I've been learning. It's definitely been not easy. And it's been, I mean, I will, it's been a war. It's been a war on my body since I was 11 years old. And I'm 36. And it's like, I'm not going to spend a quarter of a century trying to gain something that the world says this matters when it's going to be the thing that dies and no longer exists. Like it just, it can't be. And I've got to live so much more out of what he has put on my heart and called me. And I mean, what we're doing today is part of it. But I'm glad that was helpful.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:37

Yeah. Um, and I know Well just puts it in perspective.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:41

That is the perspective.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:42

That that is. Is it like that's the whole point? It's like, Lord, equip me for what you have for me.

unknown 1:09:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:51

Yeah. Done. I mean, like the hundreds of times I have begged him to make the scales fall off of my eyes for me to see myself the way he sees me is like hundreds of times. I've prayed that prayer. And it's like, man, I'm empowered now for my prayer to change. And for it to be less so about Lord, what do you see? And so that I can look at myself and be like proud of what I see. It's more so like, Lord, help equip me and be confident in the body you've given me to go wage the war.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:31

Go to war. Yeah. Well, and it's way different.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:36

That's pretty.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:37

Well, and here's the other piece of this too. When you gave birth to your baby, you gave birth to a weapon for heaven. So it's like those scars, those changes, those shifts, those things, it's like you you gave birth to a human being on planet Earth that can walk in the full authority of her God-given calling because Mama gave birth to a weapon. Your body did that.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:00

And it's like why?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:03

Yeah, I mean, like not, I think we can universally. I know, we can universally agree that that's one of the most amazing things that can happen in the natural period. It is.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:13

You wore a belt.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:14

It is.

unknown 1:11:15

You wore that thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:16

But it's like you set a generation, you set a calling. She's got a whole heaven has a whole purpose for her little life. I know, but it's like, but that's the amazing thing. And I'll tell you the other piece of this that drives me a little bit bonky is this is why your circle matters, this is why your people matter, this is why what you say matters, this is why what you see matters. Like there, there is something to it because it's like, listen, if you're female, you want to be beautiful, you want to be treasured, you want to be those things. You should be, you should be treasured, but it's also like, but for me, it's like what am I thinking and defining beautiful as?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:47

And am is it all-encompassing what actually matters? And and that's I think where sometimes we will get stuck because there is a standard that is very superficial that you can obtain, and sometimes I'm convinced that you can obtain it, not all the time and not universally, but at the loss in the detriment of everything else that you're supposed to have.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:09

Yeah. And that's that's where my temptation and poll is is a superficial look. Like the body because I know I can. Yeah, I'd have to sacrifice, I mean, I'd have to change my whole lifestyle to then become obsessed, mind and body, into this thing, which is like I know that's not what the Lord's calling me to be. But it's like, yeah, I'm still striving for that, and so every day I'm not that.

unknown 1:12:32

Feels like a failure.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:33

It feels like a failure and a lack of self-control on my end, because I know I could do that.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:38

You know what's wild is that actually in my head when I listen to you speak, it is the opposite. Your self-control is in not doing that.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:45

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:47

Because you know that you just said it, you're like, I know I can, but I don't. So you're making a self-controlled decision to not become that person.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:55

Even though it please your eye would break your heart.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:58

And here it goes back to that pendulum swing, which there is a middle ground in all of this too. Like, it's not like someone over here, like, I gotta be ugly in order to be a warrior for the kingdom. Like, that's not how that works either. Like, let's be right back.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:13

Right, right. Let's be super clear about this. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:17

So, yeah, but there is certainly a different concept, and the irony that I've been learning is it's certainly the more real of the options. And let's just go back to the basic fact of grace, you're beautiful. And I also recognize your body has changed, and there are things that you see that are important to you, and they matter to the Lord too, because they matter to you. I do believe that there are things that he'll go in and that he'll heal as you keep learning and growing and doing things with him differently. Um, and he's faithful to those things. Like, and it's not hard for him. My pastor says this, and I love it, but he says you don't have to talk God into something that was his idea to begin with. So we're over here like begging and pleading, and God's like, It was my idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:58

Yeah, like this was on me. Are you trying to create credit for that? Because that's mine.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:03

Exactly, exactly. And there's this added level and layer of going, we forget, I forget. You're a warrior born into a world at war, and you are highly powerful and highly effective. And there are so many things that he wants to do in you and through you, and it was his idea to take care of your body, it was his idea to heal, it was his idea to help, it was his idea. And you don't have to talk him into anything that was his idea. And so he cares about those little things and those nuances. He wants you to feel strong in your core, he wants you to look in the mirror and understand that you're beautiful. He also wants you to look in the mirror and remember that you're a badass warrior for the kingdom of heaven and came from heaven, and the host of heaven backs and supports what you're doing on earth. And when you look at it that way, it starts to shift, it starts to shift the mindset, the energy, the intentionality, and all of that too. But yeah, my God, you are one little hottie. You can cut that if you want to, but I'm staring at it. So I believe it. Yeah, put it on a loop. You really are. But the most important thing is, and this probably goes back to why this stuff matters, is if you don't believe it, yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. Yeah. And I think that's that's one of the things that I'm learning with the Lord right now, which is I can know something, but until I believe it, it's ineffective. That's why I tell my teams all the time, I'm like, most people know what to say, most people don't know how to say it. And if you don't know how to say it, it doesn't matter the what because nothing's translating.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:41

Um and so yeah, and I so want to have a different perspective raising a little girl.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:47

Oh yeah. I'm like, I gotta do this different because I like her a little fencing sword or something and be like, go get at it, Daisy Joe. Good. She's swimming. At a girl. Wild. She's wild.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:02

She's gonna be under the old scuba diver.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:05

Oh, that's adorable. Um, can you do this? I'm gonna take her P-O-T-T-Y. And you take this N I C K.

unknown 1:16:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:16

Oh, yeah What am I doing? You're you're asking your friend the questions, and I'm taking the dollars.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:22

Oh, yeah. Oh, I thought we were closing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:25

We are closing it, you're doing it.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:27

And you've got a better speaking voice than I.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:29

You think so? I disagree.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:30

Are the both of your voices? Yeah, I think they're both sure. Find the middle. That's what I was just thinking. I was like, man, you have a really good podcast voice.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:36

She does.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:37

Really?

SPEAKER_07 1:16:37

Yeah. Wait till you listen through it. It'll be nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:39

Yeah. Alright, I'm gonna grab this pub.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:42

Grace, you're amazing.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:44

Agreed.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:45

Thank you.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:46

So I've known you for a really long time.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:49

And I had this moment on my birthday after we had already spent, we had already spent the night together. And I watched you and DeBose, and you both asked each other such good questions. And I think I told you this already. I I couldn't fall asleep that night. And all that kept coming to mind was how sweet it was to watch you open up in a new way. Because she was a new person. Oh and it I could tell you felt safe, which was really sweet too, because that requires a special person for you to feel that. And I was listening to the questions she was asking you, and I was like, Man, it's been a long time since I've just uh intentionally like asked really good ones.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:25

So I have a couple for you.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:27

This doesn't have to be on here, but whatever you want to do. Okay. What do you like about yourself now that would have shocked your younger self?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:33

I don't feel near as legalistic as I used to be.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:36

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:38

How's that look?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:40

I think I walk in more freedom and know that the Lord like adores me, and I've like I actually there's so much more depth to go into that, but I actually believe it and I'm learning to grow in the depth of what that means. Yeah. But I I don't think I ever believed that like truly in my person that he adored me.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:06

And I have felt like his his love in a really tangible way. And I think it probably happened during postpartum. Really? Because it was hours and hours and hours in the night all alone. And it was like I was doing all this incredibly hard, so sacr self-sacrificing like work that no one on earth saw me doing. With the baby you mean with Daisy in the night. And it was just night after night after night of that. And so him really meeting me there and him being like the only one that saw those things. And him and just like feeling that he was just so pleased with me and just adored me in that, and that like what little energy and effort that I had to give to him in those hours of like just either talking to him or like Jesus help me or singing or whatever I needed to do. It just built this like tangible intimacy with him that I didn't experience in my younger self.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:18

Why does it make you emotional?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:21

Uh I think because I just love him so much. There she is. Yeah. He's kind.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:30

Yeah. I didn't realize how kind he was. That's not how I operated as a little girl or as a young adult.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:39

I think people refrain from talking about that because they don't know it themselves.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:44

He's so kind. We love him.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:47

We do.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:49

Very great. I say this all the time when I pray with other people. Like, I'll say, we love you, Lord, but not near as much as you love us. We're just trying to love you back. Yeah. Yeah. Doing our best out here in these streets. Yeah, doing our best. That's really sweet.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:06

What do you wish was different in your thinking?

SPEAKER_04 1:20:11

Um I think what we just were touching on is myself, my self-image. I would love I would love to truly be transformed in that. Yeah to not be obsessed. Obsessed with my body image.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:28

Yeah. Do you feel like there was literally something passed down? Yes. Does it feel monitory like something's been watching you and whispering things to you for a long time? Does it feel like it's in your DNA? What's it feel like?

SPEAKER_04 1:20:43

It definitely feels like a it's definitely more of a presence.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:48

Like a familial spirit.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:49

Familial spirit. Yeah, I don't feel like it's in my DNA. It definitely feels like something that's attached to the women in my family. Um no I mean Sarah, I would We haven't talked about it in a in a while.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:05

Actually, I haven't asked her about her um Oh my gosh, a podcast between the two of you would be ridiculous.

unknown 1:21:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:14

That would be fun.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:15

I would love that.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:16

She's incredible. Like you'll just like your mind will just Oh yeah. She talks and you'll just be like, please don't. The little bit of time I've spent around her, I'm like talk about someone who articulates things perfectly.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:30

I think she's a teacher.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:31

She is a teacher. Legit. She is a teacher now.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:34

I I it's it's just like mind boggling how she articulates things.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:41

Yeah, she's profound with her words.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:43

Profound, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:45

Um she's done a lot of hard stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:48

Yes, she has. She's done a lot of hard work. So I don't know. I don't I don't know that I've seen somebody like set free from it, but I don't know if it's I don't know if Sarah I I haven't heard Sarah talk about it, struggling with it like I'd have.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:04

That's not been something that she's it hasn't been like that of intense of a struggle.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:09

What are you super satisfied in? What am I super satisfied in?

SPEAKER_04 1:22:15

I mean my family. Yeah. I mean that's just my answer for like everything. That's great. My family. Very satisfied. My family. What's the worst? My family. This literally shattering your heart.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:29

My family. My family. Um dang.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:40

Oh, I'm totally satisfied in my doggy.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:43

Oh, masterpad.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:45

Yes. That's a really challenging question.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:52

I wonder if it's challenging too because you always want to grow and learn. So it sounds like what are what's what could never change?

SPEAKER_04 1:22:59

Yeah, that's that's exactly it.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:01

It's like, oh man, I would wrestle the same with the question, but it's really just like true, okay. How about this? What are you truly glad about?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:08

I mean, I I adore Daisy. I'm very thankful for Peyton and our marriage. I feel hungry to grow in that. Like I'm like starving to like go to the next level. But I'm very thankful for what we do have and who we are and what we've developed over almost 10 years.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:29

That's insane.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:31

Wild. Um March 11th. Next year, right? Matt's healing. Oh. I just can't even sobbing. Satisfied. That's that's a word. So that's just still? Still.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:48

Yeah, good. Yeah. What's been your recent favorite snack?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:53

My recent favorite snack.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:54

Don't say Coke.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:56

You can't eat Coke.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:57

Um I I mean, I'm I love snow caps, which I think I sent you a picture of. I go in seasons, I go like a six month of like I love this thing, and then I love that thing. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:10

Okay, hold on a second. Do you have a sprinkle fetish? Is that what this is? Yeah, little white dots.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:16

Because they're crunchy. It's a tech it's a texture.

unknown 1:24:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:20

So like she likes a soft cookie with the hard icing on top. With the crunchy sprinkles. Sprinkles.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:26

So do you like any type of gummies?

SPEAKER_07 1:24:28

I like gummies. You like sour candies, don't you? Fruits or vegetables? You have to cut one out. Which one's going on? I have to cut one out. You have to. Which one are you keeping?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:37

Veggies.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:39

Okay, favorite vegetable. Sweet potato. Do you eat a sweet potato every day? Most days. You know how good those are for you?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:45

I do power bowls for lunches most of the time with quinoa, avocado, um, sweet potato, like ground beef or something. Black beans. Um I do an egg, get an add ground beef. Sometimes I add some like Mexican street corn.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:00

I'm coming to eat lunch with you. That's a good one. It's really good for your um your hormones, is what I've read. My last question for you. Okay. You ready? Because it is 305. Is there anything you wish you got more of from me or other people that you love?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:14

Not from you, because you excel in it. But words of affirmation for sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:22

I would love to be seen. And I do think, especially like people in my family, I do think they see me. But I would but it is so encouraging when it's vocalized.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:34

Yeah, notify me of what you see. Yeah. Holla at your girl.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:38

Yeah. So that and it maybe sounds a little pretentious, but like, I want to know what you think of me. So like people, like I really struggle in friendships. There's several friendships that I've been growing, and it's like I get no feedback on like anything. And that's really hard for me.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:56

You're like a checks and balance type of girl where you're like, Yeah, you cross a certain line and you look back, you're like, how was that? Go to another 30 yards? How's that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:04

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's so it's how I build trust with people too. And so I don't know. Like, I just really value people's feedback.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:13

Do you like to give feedback?

SPEAKER_04 1:26:15

Um, if it's a safe place and someone's genuinely asking, like, and I've built trust with them, then and they ask my opinion on like a certain situation, you're like, well, would you have done would you have done that differently? Or what do you think?

SPEAKER_07 1:26:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:26

Then yeah, I would I would share. But people don't ask for feedback.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:30

Why are we still friends?

SPEAKER_04 1:26:32

Why are we still friends? Oh gosh. Give me the feedback. We're I mean, we I don't seem to send the lost for a little thing you could do. I mean a cord of three strings is not easily broken. You know what I mean? I'm like, they could change something. I'm gonna we're still friends because like maybe the spirit led us to it, but like there's a safety that is wild.

unknown 1:27:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:06

Um being known that is rare. Oh yeah. Investment that is matched.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:16

We both are very passionate about the Lord and our walk with him and pursuing him and growing in him and learning new things and being challenged in him. We're not afraid to be uncomfortable and being challenged. We're not intimidated by each other. I mean, I mean, what else do you need? Uh yeah, I mean, there's just so much. I mean, there's not there's literally nothing that I couldn't bring to you. There's times I need help with thinking through something that is that I need to.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:53

Yeah, you need your battle buddy.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:54

I need my battle buddy with.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:57

Can I be the person who asks you all to talk about it? But I believe you sat on her lap at some point in life.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:06

Oh yeah, Grace sat on my lap. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:09

Because it was one of the ways that I knew I liked you. I didn't know who you were. Oh, the more I talked about her. And you told me that story, and I was like, I don't know who this woman is, but I think I adore her.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:19

I speak so highly of you when you're not around.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:24

You would blush at the things I say about you.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:27

For multiple reasons.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:28

Yeah, so I just want you to know you're you're you're you're supported whether you're in the room or not. Yeah. Always.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:35

That's also where you build trust. Cause I fight for you when you're not around? Yeah. Wah duh. And people tell me that. Like what DeBose just said. Yeah. So it's like she's like, I heard about you before I knew you. Terry, I heard about you before I knew you. Yeah. It's like your mom. My mom before she knew me.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:56

And so I'm like. And they knew the best things about you.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:58

Yeah. I'm like, okay. Like, whoa. There's like no question. There's just no question in my mind.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:08

I adore you. And my hope, I will tell that high-level story. My hope is that that the Lord would equip me to have moments with you where as you're learning how much he adores you, you'd feel that in a tangible way through a person sometimes. Which I know I have no doubt you feel that with Peyton. And you probably have moments of that where you feel that with Daisy. But just from a from another female friend, to be like, I know the father loves me because this love is not human. It's not, it's something different. So that's my prayer when I love you. Which I always do. But well, that's wonderful, praise Jesus. Um for the listener who doesn't know if this even goes in. Um, one of the sweetest moments I've ever had with you was whenever you took Shane by the shirt collar and sat it down and showed it. It was nothing. I shared some personal things with you and felt grossed out about myself. And I put a chair between us and you deleted that space. I shared the story. You got up, you looked at me, and then you faced forward. Because I didn't want to look at you when I was sharing it with you. I wanted to look forward. And then you just crossed the space and sat on my lap and you didn't move until I I hugged you back. And it was the it was the first time I remember a friend doing that. And it's still the most dynamic time I've ever had of a friend doing that. So it's a pretty freaking solid foundation to have. Start. Yeah. To start. And most friendships do not start with anything even close to that. So yeah. Yeah. We love you. And you are so worth listening to. You have so much wisdom in that sweetheart of yours. Um, and I would listen to you talk all day, but I thought it was really sweet too that DeBose asked specifically for you. Yeah. And I hope that you know that we honor the heck out of you.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:03

Absolutely. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:05

Yeah. Everybody, this has been Grace Horn. Thanks for listening to the Something to Consider podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:12

See you later.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:13

Suckle.

unknown 1:31:17

Bye.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:17

Bye, Felicia.

SPEAKER_07 1:31:20

Good job.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:22

Thank you guys for being so generous and kind and interested and patient and