The Art of Divorce-Proofing Your Marriage

Ever wondered if it's actually possible to divorce-proof your marriage? Todd and Erin Stevens, founders of Renovation Marriage, reveal transformative insights that can revolutionize how you approach your relationship.

The conversation opens with a powerful exploration of God's original design for marriage as a permanent "one-flesh union" – like two rivers converging that can never be separated without damage. This foundational understanding shifts our perspective from seeing marriage as a contract to recognizing it as a divine covenant designed to meet our emotional needs in ways no other relationship can.

Beyond spiritual practices, the Stevens share practical strategies for protecting intimacy through quality time, reversing the typical 6:1 ratio of criticism to encouragement, and cultivating a spirit of mutual service. They describe almost making a game of out-serving each other – not through grand gestures, but through everyday acts like making coffee or handling household tasks without being asked.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

Well , welcome to Marriage Mondays and I'm excited to have guests with me today . Todd and Erin Stevens Thanks for being here , guys . They are the founders of Renovation Marriage . They are also former Brushy Creekers , which is how I got to know them 25 years ago , and we have maintained great friendships over the years . So just introduce yourselves quickly . Tell us about your family and what you do .

Speaker 2 0:29

Yeah , we're from way back when it was still just Brushy Creek . It wasn't even a full creek yet , so that's been a while , but yeah .

Speaker 3 0:36

Angela was the first visitor to our firstborn child in the hospital . Is that right ? Yeah , that's

Meet Todd and Erin Stevens

Speaker 3 0:41

how far away we go back .

Speaker 2 0:42

All right . But yeah , we're Todd and Erin and we're the founders and lead coaches of Renovation Marriage . We do weekend marriage intensive workshops where we'll set up in different cities every three weeks and people could come to either try to heal hurts they've been experiencing in their relationship which is probably about two-thirds , three-fourths of the couples there where they're trying to work through some issue they've not been able to figure out quite yet or they could come just to do maintenance , to kind of take where they're at and elevate it to be on an even better trajectory and keep things moving in the right direction as they move forward in their relationship .

Speaker 3 1:20

And occasionally we even have people that aren't married yet that are coming .

Speaker 2 1:23

Yeah , it could be a premarital .

Speaker 3 1:25

Yeah which is fantastic . They're getting the tools early to set their marriage on the right course early on .

Speaker 1 1:30

Yeah Well , thank you guys so much for being here , and it's always exciting to get to chat with you guys , but especially to talk about marriage . And one thing I want to talk with you guys about today , or the kind of the theme of what I want us to hit on today , is divorce proofing your marriage . Is it possible to divorce proof your marriage ? And I think that probably starts for a Christian , with God's design for marriage , right ? So what ? What does scripture say about that ?

Speaker 2 2:03

yeah , I think we read about God's design for marriage in Genesis 2 and 3 , where we see Adam and Eve come together and it's described as a one-flesh union . Illustration I like to use about what that means is in terms of two rivers that merge together and converge . Once that happens , you're not separating those two waters back out . You can never go back to being two separate rivers . They're forever intermingled and connected and I think in a real similar way you know it's described as

God's Design for Marriage

Speaker 2 2:39

this one flesh , where the two are no longer just individuals on their own . They're connected in such a way that if you were to try to separate them , you're going to do damage to both , because it's intended to be a permanent bond .

Speaker 3 2:53

And when looking at creation , it's interesting to think about that after each stage of creation , god said it is good , and the first time God said anything was not good was that Adam was alone , and actually the Hebrew word for that is it means something is missing . Yeah , and so then he created woman .

Speaker 2 3:19

Yeah , that was a real eye opener for me when I first really realized that . You know , here's Adam and he's got literally all of his physical needs met , all the fruit he could eat , right , and his spiritual needs are totally met because he's walking and talking with God . I mean , that seems as good as it could get , but it wasn't good . He was lonely , right . Something was missing . And so what we see there is that God created and designed us in such a way to need another person to meet some of our emotional needs . He meets our spiritual needs and meets many of our emotional needs as well , but he designed us to need another person to meet some of those needs , and once you're married , that is the primary relationship through which those emotional needs need to be getting met .

Speaker 1 4:05

That's good . Well , knowing that , and I think most believers know the creation story and know about Adam and Eve , and that God has a design for marriage . So , knowing all of that , why do you think Christian marriages struggle or why are we seeing divorces in the church today ?

Speaker 3 4:25

I think we see it , because obviously we inherited that same sinful , self-centered nature that got passed down from Adam and Eve , and so you know , that's where we can start to look at the root of our own problems . Is that what happened there and is continuing to happen even today ?

Speaker 2 4:44

Yeah , we do the exact same thing they did . It's not that we don't know right and wrong . We think we get to decide what's right and wrong . Right , Eve knew the rules . They had very clear directives , so it wasn't a matter of not knowing . But she's moved to a place and Adam right there with her of thinking oh , I get to decide . And we

Why Christian Marriages Struggle

Speaker 2 5:06

do that sometimes too , where it's like all right , I know what God says is right and wrong about that . But I think that one's kind of optional Like I think I'm above , that , I'm so exceptional that I'm the exception , I can do it and it won't matter . And so we move from just knowing to thinking we get to decide . And that's where we get into all kinds of troubles and that's where our self-centeredness leads us , when we think it all revolves around us .

Speaker 1 5:31

Yeah , yeah , I would say as a person who didn't get married until I was 47 , I thought I was a pretty generous , compassionate person that didn't really have a self-control issue . And , man , when I got married I realized pretty quickly how selfish I was and that was an eye-opener . And I've talked to a lot of brides through the newlywed class here at Brushy Creek and different people and they all say , man , I didn't realize how selfish I was until I got married and I think you even mentioned that this weekend , erin .

Speaker 3 6:06

I think Tim Keller said marriage has a way of exposing .

Speaker 2 6:10

Introducing you to yourself .

Speaker 3 6:11

Yeah , marriage has a way of introducing you to yourself , you realize how selfish you are .

Speaker 1 6:16

Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 3 6:17

And I can totally agree with that . And I think when we get married , as time goes on , because we're selfish , we start leaving God out , we leave him out of our choices , we leave him out of our activities . You know , and so it's just . It seems , a lot of times in marriage that's the trajectory , and because we're selfish and so self-centered , we just begin to leave him out of our choices and our activities .

Speaker 2 6:44

Well , and I think our self-centeredness , too , causes us to approach marriage in a way where we're not daydreaming about how we're going to become the perfect person for somebody else . We're focused on finding the perfect person for us . And when I find that person , they're just going to fit and they're going to agree with me and how awesome I am and want to have the same number of pets I do , and agree about how to spend the money and what kind of car to get , and all that . And we have this , you know , idealized idea because we think it's just all going to fit right together . Then , when we get two selfish people together , they don't see eye to eye on everything and so , yeah , that leads to all kinds of issues .

Speaker 1 7:21

Yeah , yeah , and you know , aaron , you were talking about leaving God out of things . So , if we want to have a marriage based on the foundation of Christ , which every Christian couple should want to do , what are those spiritual foundations that you think every Christian couple should build their marriage on ?

Speaker 2 7:43

Yeah , I think it starts with putting God at the center , you know , having that foundation .

Speaker 2 7:48

If you don't get the foundation right , then it's just not going to work .

Speaker 2 7:52

I think , of all the relationship and marriage studies , I've looked at the one that is the most fascinating and I can't remember right now who did it , but studied it in thousands of Christian couples and they found , first of all , unfortunately , that only 8% of those couples prayed together on any kind of regular , like daily basis , and not just , you know , god bless the food , amen , but they had a time where they were connecting and praying only 8% .

Speaker 2 8:16

But of those who did , the divorce rate decreased to one in 10,000 , which

Spiritual Foundations: Praying Together

Speaker 2 8:24

is a divorce rate of 0.01% . So if you want to talk about divorce , proofing your marriage , start praying together , even if it's awkward , even if it's uncomfortable , even if you don't like praying in front of somebody else . Figure it out . You know , just God bless my spouse , god , help me be the spouse they need . You know , figure out some way to pray together for each other and for yourselves in a relationship , because , I mean , study after study really just shows that makes a huge difference , and I think it is because it does keep God right there in the center .

Speaker 3 8:57

And Todd and I know that's something that's like he said . It's very personal but it's also often inconvenient . I mean , we're all busy living crazy lives just trying to get the kids out the door and somewhere on time . We get that , so choose a time that works for you . You know , is it over coffee ? Is it when you both get home from work ? Or you know , some of our best friends in Mississippi do it at bedtime every night . They pray together out loud , you know , and some people beat themselves up . Well , we missed today . Well , you know , it's kind of like shampooing your hair . You don't give up on shampoo . If you miss a day , Just pick up the next day . But there's yeah to us there's not a better way to divorce proof your marriage than praying out loud together regularly .

Speaker 2 9:37

Well , and just a very practical level , it'll shift your mindset . You know , if I've just prayed with Aaron , it's not very likely that two minutes later I'm going to be like would you quit slurping your coffee ? You're driving me bananas right now Because I'm going to be in a different place . You know , mentally and emotionally and spiritually , because I'm focused on all right God , what do you want to do in my life and in this relationship ?

Speaker 3 10:01

I also love praying out loud with Todd because it gives me a glimpse into his heart . I love to hear what you know . What is he going to pray about today , so , and it kind of it shows me what he's , maybe what he's concerned about , what he's worrying about or what he's thankful for . I like to hear that . Yeah .

Speaker 2 10:19

Well , and a tip that I've given to a few people because I just stumbled across this and it effective and powerful for me in praying is if it's awkward for you , if you're not used to it , pray for yourself in the third person . And what I mean by that is think through each of the roles and the hats that you wear and pray through those , one at a time . You know God . Right now I want to pray for Aaron's husband and the man he needs to be for her , and now I want to pray for Elijah's dad and who Elijah needs him to be , and every time I do that I end up in tears because you just see yourself through different eyes and who God calls you to be and who these people that you love need you to be , and so that , just for me at least , unlocked this whole different way of praying , even for myself , at a level that I never had before .

Speaker 1 11:18

And I would say that's something Adam and I try to do and , like you said , I love to hear Adam pray because he can be kind of stoic and doesn't share every thought and feeling like I do , but when we're praying I get to hear what's on his heart . So I appreciate that . But I also , as we you know , you said , it's not always super comfortable to pray one-on-one with somebody , but as we grew in that comfort level , now when something happens , one of us will say let's pray about that right now , and that makes it more natural . I think that we have spent so much time praying together that it's not weird to hey , we need to talk to God about that right now .

Speaker 3 11:59

Well , and that's separate from . You know , obviously , my personal time with Christ every day and Todd's personal time , which is also important because God needs to be in that number one slot in your marriage and then your marriage should be priority number two below God . So it's obviously important that each you know everybody is also having their own personal time with God . Right , but sometimes just connecting like we're talking about five or 10 minutes or even less , just to pray out loud together , is just so powerful and beneficial .

Speaker 2 12:33

Yeah , just to pray out loud together is just so powerful and beneficial . Yeah , and I read a story a little while back about a couple who had hired a guy to come in and paint their house and they had some cracks in this one wall and so he patched up the cracks , painted over them and everything looked good for about three weeks and then the cracks came back . So they like that's a terrible painter . And they hired another guy and he came in . They said hey , can you give us a quote to take care of these cracks in the wall ? And he said no , I can't , because you don't have a crack in the wall problem , you got a foundation problem . If we just cover that up , it's just going to keep on coming back and keep getting worse , and I think that's what so many couples do little while . But they never dealt with the foundation . And that's what prayer allows us to do is to keep the relationship centered on God and keep him at the foundation so that all these other little cracks don't keep surfacing in the relationship .

Speaker 1 13:26

Yeah Well , in that same vein , what role do you think regular church attendance plays into divorce , proofing your marriage ?

Speaker 2 13:36

Yeah , I think church attendance is huge for a lot of reasons , but the one that springs to mind the most for me is that it's where you see how to live this out right , that I can sit alone , yes , and read the Bible and see God in nature and all these things . But when I rub elbows with real life people who are imperfect like me , but they're trying to figure this thing out and they're trying to move toward God , I'm going to be drawn more toward God too , because just the reality is we're all influenceable and we're going to move

Church Community's Crucial Role

Speaker 2 14:16

in the same direction with the people that are around us . You know , aaron has said before that . You know , have you noticed that when we hang out with these other people who have a whole lot more money than us , it tends to be a little bit harder to not blow our budget , you know ? And so we just you get influenced by the people that are around you and we think we're above that . You know we think , no , I'm not .

Speaker 2 14:38

Well , the reality is we've all done things wrong that we never would have done had it not been for the people we were hanging out with at that moment and because we were with some other knucklehead , we ended up making some really dumb choices and we got ourselves into some trouble . And so just the reality is right that our friends are going to influence us . So it's so important to get connected to church so you see how this stuff moves from theory to reality and not just to be in church but to be connected with a smaller group in that church where you get to know the people and you can ask some questions and you can say all right , how do I apply biblical principles to potty training my child ? Like , what does that even mean ? Because I don't see a verse for that . You know , and just to kind of see the real life applications play out Well , and I'm going to go on a tangent here .

Speaker 3 15:24

But you know , I think one of the biggest problems or stressors in marriages and in families is social media , because we see everybody how perfect their lives are , their kids are perfect , they're winning all these awards , and , oh , my husband did this and that and he's so great . And I'm looking at that , thinking , well , I mean , he's not nearly as good , but you know , it just really doesn't . It doesn't help anything , you know . And so when we get to church and we can plug into a group that's authentic and real and transparent with each other , that's so healthy , as opposed to comparing ourselves to other people and what's going on on social media .

Speaker 1 16:07

Yeah , Well , talking about disagreements and not getting along , what are some practical ways couples can fight for each other and not with each other ?

Speaker 2 16:23

I think about what Paul wrote in Ephesians 4 when he says do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth , but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs , that it may benefit those who listen . So , yeah , I think it starts with having that boundary of all . Right , I'm not going to say anything that's unwholesome , that's going to tear them down , make them feel worse than they already do . Sometimes we love to make sure that they know just how bad they messed up , but to not focus the conversation there , but to focus on building them up according to their needs not my needs , but theirs .

Speaker 2 17:00

So it's this idea that you're renovating your language in a way

Fighting For, Not Against Each Other

Speaker 2 17:04

that's going to make things better , that's going to expand their life , that's going to move them in the right direction . That's going to move them in the right direction Because by doing that , by really celebrating their wins and calling out their potential , we help them to become that . We help them to live up to what we're seeing in them and what we're championing in them , and really giving them what I call home field advantage , where they feel safe . It don't feel like they have to be on guard all the time , but they can really begin to flourish because of the way that you're investing in them with your words .

Speaker 1 17:40

Yeah , and I think it was . It may have been Dr Gottman , that you referenced this weekend in your workshop about the criticism . Tell us about that ratio .

Speaker 2 18:00

They found and this is a study they did , not just of marriage but , as I understood it , of all of our conversations with our coworkers and our boss and our kids and our friends that it's particularly in conflict , that the ratio of criticism to encouragement tends to be six to one . So , for every one , you're awesome . There's six things that we're saying on average that are tearing them down and it's like well , that explains why so many relationships are dysfunctional , you know , because there's so much more toxicity in there than there is the positive . So we've got to be real , intentional about reversing that . You know , having way more encouraging things that we're saying to build them up rather than just what comes natural , at least for me , of always noticing what could be better and making sure that they're very aware of their mistakes and the ways they could improve better and making sure they're very aware of their mistakes and the ways they could improve .

Speaker 1 18:59

Well , how do you think couples can protect their intimacy emotionally , spiritually , physically , to protect it from drifting or becoming damaged ? Any thoughts on that ?

Speaker 2 19:07

Yeah , I would just say sticking with what we were just talking about , just continuing to encourage . That encouragement really is how we build up and how we highlight their potential and keep us jointly , kind of moving in the same direction together , staying intentional about it and just recognizing that our words do reflect our heart , that the mouth speaks what the heart's full of . And so if that's a struggle for me to do , it's not that they need to change more to give me more positive things to say . I need

Protecting Intimacy Through Service

Speaker 2 19:44

to work on my heart and figure out why I'm always so critical , why I'm always focused on the negative , and what do I need to do , which is focusing more on Christ , you know , changing my heart to where I can be a little quicker to see and acknowledge the positive .

Speaker 3 19:59

Well , in addition to that , on a very practical level , I would also say make sure you're spending quality time together , because you know , if we're saying that this marriage is important to us , which it should be then you know the chief responsibility is time and making sure you know , whether it's a monthly date night or these connect time each day , you know it's going to be really easy to drift apart if you're not spending quality time together , and I don't mean going out to eat and the whole conversation you're talking about the kids or just getting together and talking about logistics . I mean focus time , just the two of you , to stay connected . That's what's going to help . Even if your love language is not quality time , you know it's still very , very important , because that is the main ingredient needed . That's the chief responsibility in a marriage is time .

Speaker 2 20:54

Yeah , and I would add that consistency matters , right ?

Speaker 2 20:58

Sometimes I think we think that if it's not just spontaneous , that it's not romantic or it's not real , but it doesn't matter if it's spontaneous .

Speaker 2 21:07

What matters is that it's authentic . So if you need to do like I'll admit that I do , and have all kinds of reminders on your Google calendar , on your phone , to alert you at different times of the week to , hey , make sure you do something encouraging or make sure you , you know , send somebody a thank you or whatever , do , whatever you got to do to have sort of those guardrails , those boundaries in place because I think that's how we protect our intimacy and our relationship is by keeping that at the forefront , by having that on my calendar . It keeps me from getting distracted by all the urgencies and the to-dos and deadlines and things that grab at my attention . That would cause that to , you know , fall by the wayside , because so many times the urgent crowds out the important , you know fall by the wayside because so many times the urgent crowds out the important , you know , and this is important to me . So I've got to do what I got to do to make sure that doesn't get crowded out by the urgent .

Speaker 1 21:59

Yeah , yeah , well , and you , you said the word guardrails . What are some guardrails that you think all marriages should should build into their marriage , or all couples should build into their marriage ?

Speaker 2 22:12

Yeah , well , the praying together would be a big one , but I think another is just to really make it a habit to serve each other . You know , erin and I have tried to almost make this a game where we're trying to out-serve one another . And just like the other day I was headed out to the garage and said I'm going to go out here and get a gallon of tea . She's like nope , I already brought one in for you because I'm serving you . She didn't say because I'm out serving you , but I knew that's kind of what she was getting at , because that's the idea , is that we want to be continually trying to serve the other one and be asking this question what can I do to help ?

Speaker 2 22:53

Whether I say it out loud or not , to be looking for that , because so often we fall into this trap of well , you didn't do this for me or you didn't thank me when I washed the dishes , so you better just wait and see if I'm going to do it again for you . Rather than being generous , we attach all these strings that because I did this thing for you , you owe me . You owe me a thank you . You owe me to pay you back . You owe me to go work at the yard because I worked in here for you . And when it becomes about what you're owed or what you think you do , generosity becomes impossible , right ? Because now I'm being demanding and entitled and you can't freely give me anything because I'm always wanting and demanding more . So , yeah , to just freely give with no strings attached really is a key .

Speaker 3 23:35

Yeah , and if we are not living that spirit of generosity , then we're creating pressure on each other , and pressure crushes intimacy .

Speaker 3 23:45

And so it's important that we're already always looking for ways to serve each other .

Speaker 3 23:50

And that just may mean that , you know , when I hear the kid at 2.30 in the morning , you know , making that puking sound , or the dog making that yakking sound , you know , maybe I lean over and touch Todd and say I've got this , rather than assuming he's going to have to get up and handle it .

Speaker 3 24:04

I mean , it may be as simple as you know , when Todd goes to the kitchen , instead of putting his cereal bowl beside the sink , actually put it in the sink or , better yet , put it in the dishwasher , right ? I mean , there are ways to serve each other all over the place , and it's not that we don't see them , it's that we often talk ourselves out of them . Right , we're so busy , and well , they'll do it , or you know . But just finding ways to serve , because we realize , as believers , we're morphed into the likeness of Christ the most when we're serving . That was central to his purpose . A non-serving Christian is a contradictory term , and so we've got to be looking for ways not only to serve people in our church and in our community , but each other we need to serve each other in a married relationship .

Speaker 1 24:53

Yeah , in the newlywed class here at Brushy Creek , one of the things that Brian and Ann Hartzell ask a lot of times . As just an opener , you know , how did your mate serve you this week ? Fantastic , and it was amazing how often the guys brought up that the wife got up and made coffee and how that just kind of blew them away and it kind of almost became a joke of like who made coffee this ?

Speaker 3 25:19

week .

Speaker 1 25:21

But it is interesting how that makes a difference in somebody's life .

Speaker 2 25:26

Because it doesn't have to be the big extravagant thing , which I think is what we tend to wait for sometimes , but it's in the everyday little things . There's always something that you could do to serve if you're just thinking from that mindset and looking for those opportunities .

Speaker 3 25:39

They're there , yeah . And again , it's the consistency that pays off , yeah .

Speaker 1 25:44

Well , just moving for a minute and you know we're going to close up here in just a second . But for those who are maybe on the fence right now or who are really struggling , and maybe struggling in specific issues that seem more than the everyday struggle with pornography or unmet expectations or just toxic relationship what advice do you have for them ?

Speaker 2 26:17

relationship . What advice do you have for them ? I would say first , believe the best as much as you can until you can't anymore . Everybody's doing the best they can . So we got to recognize that Some people have , you know , hangups and habits and past experiences that are holding them back in different ways or they didn't have that positive model to be able to follow .

Speaker 2 26:36

But the reality is everybody's doing the best they can , and that includes your spouse . And so when you believe the best about them and communicate that to them , that shows them that not only that you value them , but you also want the best for them . You want them to succeed and do well . So it helps to make that possible .

Help for Struggling Marriages

Speaker 2 26:58

I do think that with some of these more habitual issues like pornography or those sorts of things , that accountability can be huge . Account know , accountability is only going to be as effective as you are transparent and as the mentor there is willing to ask the hard question , you know , and not be worried about the cost and then the relationship there , because they're more focused on staying on friendly terms than really leaning in and pushing . But having that real accountable relationship can go a long way towards helping people to have the right guardrails , that they need to break some of those tendencies and patterns they might fall into otherwise .

Speaker 3 27:48

And I would also say that if you're having issues , don't put it off . Don't sweep issues under the rug . I mean , they're like a monster in a bad horror movie . It just grows and grows . We all know the more you sweep it , it doesn't go away .

Speaker 3 28:03

So get help , whether that's talking to your pastor , finding a counselor , coming to an intensive weekend and just getting away and focusing on nothing but your marriage , like people do at our weekends . Do something . Don't let it go months and years , because it's not going to go away and it's only going to get worse . So swallow your pride , get help . Realize that 99% of marriages have a season of struggle . Everybody needs to hear that . There's no shame or guilt associated with that . I wish I could sit here in front of you today and say my marriage has been perfect for the last 30 years . It has not . It's been as we like to say . It's been very , very hard . It's been also very , very good at the same time . It's been both . But anybody that says they have a perfect marriage is lying . So swallow your pride and get the help you need if you need it .

Speaker 2 29:00

Yeah , because I mean when you've got foot problems , you don't feel bad about going to see a podiatrist , a foot doctor , right . When you've got back problems , you don't feel ashamed to go see the chiropractor . So when you've got a relationship problem , don't feel ashamed to go see the chiropractor . So when you've got a relationship problem , don't feel bad about going to see a relationship expert , somebody that can help you see what you're not seeing , kind of check your blind spots and help you to be able to get a plan to make some progress .

Speaker 1 29:25

Well , obviously , here at Brushy Creek , our ministry staff is always willing to sit down with somebody or we can refer people to counselors . Obviously , ministries like you guys Renovation Marriage offers weekend intensives and different things like that for help . But you also mentioned a minute ago accountability and mentors . Let's finish up by just telling us what do you think if somebody says , okay , I'd like an accountability partner , I'd like a marriage mentor , what suggestion do you have for them , for how to find that person ?

Speaker 2 30:02

That's the hang up . I mean it really is , Because the trouble with most mentoring programs in my experience has been nobody feels like they're ready to mentor because they think that means they've got to say they're perfect and they've got it all figured out . And that's just not the case . If you're one step ahead of anybody else , you can mentor them right . You can coach them to take that step . So , in fact , the fact that you're honest and vulnerable and real about your imperfections , that's going to make you an even better mentor and a better coach .

Speaker 2 30:36

So just first of all , finding somebody that you see

Finding Mentors and Accountability

Speaker 2 30:41

is a little bit ahead of you in the way they're doing their relationship and then talking through . All right , here's what I'm looking for , and would you help coach me ? There are plenty of guides and tools and resources you can get online for ideal questions that can be asked in that kind of relationship and kind of having an accountability meeting focus on If there's anything that's out of bounds . I don't want to talk about that , but hopefully everything can be on the table , because the more transparent and authentic you can be , the more that sort of relationship is going to benefit you .

Speaker 1 31:20

For sure . Yeah Well , thank you guys so much for being with us . Remind our listeners how they can connect with Renovation Marriage , if that is the road that they need to take right now .

Speaker 2 31:31

Yeah , to find out about Renovation Marriage , just go to renovationmarriagecom and I think there's a way there to sign up for emails from us as well . We send out kind of little relationship renovation tips on a pretty regular basis , but at a minimum you could see when the workshops are happening and what cities they're happening in . And , yeah , we'd love to answer any questions that you've got about it .

Speaker 3 31:56

Absolutely . And also , not only do we you know , we're usually in a different city every three weeks we also offer online options . So for people that are not able to travel for some reason , that's OK , we can . We can handle that as well . And if finances are a problem , we like to say that we're the most effective and affordable marriage ministry because we can offer partial scholarships . We actually offer a payment plan , you know , to just make a monthly payment for a few months . So we don't want anybody that wants help or needs help not to be able to get that help ?

Speaker 2 32:29

Sure , yeah . And if I could just pile on to the online option there , that becomes even more affordable because you don't have travel expenses or have to deal with , you know , child care options or whatever . But a lot of people like the online because they can sort of do it at their own pace .

Speaker 2 32:46

You know we've got a schedule for the weekend but everything is recorded so you can pause , come back to it whatever it might be for your weekend schedule . So that makes it a little easier for a lot of people to there again be able to get the help they need .

Speaker 1 33:01

Sure Well , thank you guys , so much again for being here , and I look forward to our next Marriage Monday .