The One About Bethel…

Today the crew is back with all 3 members of the cast!  They are back with updates on life and a difficult discussion surrounding Pastor Mike Winger’s video series exposing the dirt behind Bethel church!  Led by Luke and Lizz, they talk about Bethel itself and what this says about a lack of accountability in the charismatic church.  They also highlight new music and a new book by Josh Nadeau “Heaven Meets Earth”.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:08

Y'all. What's up, baby? You know what it is. We are back. Eternal Creatures Podcast. How y'all doing? We're back.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

I can't breathe. I like this music. More of this, please.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

Okay, more upbeat. I like it. I like it. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome, welcome back to the Eternal Creatures Podcast. The podcast for people who view the world just a little bit differently, where creators and worshipers are one.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 0:45

Hey.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

I like it.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

I'm trying new stuff, man. I'm trying new stuff. Brought to you as always by the lovely Abiding God Studios. Thanks, Kiki. Uh, and as always, we gotta dedicate an episode to some people. So today's episode is dedicated to people with undergarments that need to be thrown away. Listen, um so look. And this can go to two people. I I got one for the men, and I got one for the ladies. So for the men, for the for the for y'all out there grown men with holes in your underwear and socks. It should only be like three holes. And you ain't throwing them joints away. And for the men who have holes in the toe of their sock where your toe is sticking through the sock, listen.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Your whole knuckle is out, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Y'all deserve, y'all need a little extra. Y'all need to sit up somewhere. Y'all need to go to jail for the nice couple weeks. Because you know you feel that hole.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Don't Pasco. Don't pluck $200.

SPEAKER_04 1:43

Go straight. Two weeks the real crime. Two weeks in the county jail. You and Barney Fife. That's it. Uh, yeah, nah. Y'all gotta throw those away. All right. We are grown men out here. We are not 12. Go over to Target, get yourself a little 12 pack. It's done. It's done. You alright? Now, for the ladies.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

I'm listening.

SPEAKER_04 2:03

For the ladies. I'm not necessarily talking to Liz, but if the shoe fits, you know what I'm saying? For you women that have those bras that uh look like they've been through two world wars, you know the bra. You know the one with the strap that screams every time you put it over the shoulders. You know the one with the wire poking out that occasionally stabs you and your friends. You know the one where the cloth looks like a kindergartner's pillowcase. Yeah, nah. That bro, it needs to be replaced. Look, I know it's comfy. All right, I know it's broken in, and I know bras are expensive. But that bra's about to fly away like Thanos dust, alright? So before it disintegrates, you need to go and take yourself to TJ Maxx or Platoh's sock drawer and go and replace that. So, for both of you, the men and the women that need to go out and buy your new stuff while you're buying that stuff. Go and listen to the Eternal Creatures podcast and tell your cashier about it because this podcast is for you. Thank you guys so much for listening. Guys!

SPEAKER_02 3:10

I told a guy about the podcast the other day. Did he? Did you? You remember?

SPEAKER_04 3:14

Oh yeah. Captain Ab. And uh and and Liz is also here with us. Uh go ahead and tell us. You want you want to tell the story? Yeah, I can I can't. Who this guy was?

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Let's summarize it. So Andrew and Brooklyn and I were out at a uh like a little restaurant in the college area where we live, and Captain Ahab from Moby Dick comes walking in. I'm just kidding. But he looked like that, and he walked up to Brooklyn, and Brooklyn has like super curly red hair. If you've ever seen the Disney movie Brave, that's who they based the movie off. Meredith. Yeah, they based the movie off of Brooklyn. Um so this guy starts like talking to her about like her heritage and like where she's from and like all these things. And it was weird, and he was talking way too much. I just wanted to eat my nachos, our cheese fries were getting cold. Have my have my big wave and call it good. But he wouldn't stop yapping. So he started telling us about like all these government things and blah blah blah. And I I interrupted him and I was like, hey man, like you should listen to a podcast. Like it's a really good podcast. And he's like, Oh yeah? And I'm like, Yeah, it's called the Eternal Creatures Podcast. Yeah, he did.

SPEAKER_04 4:35

I thought he was gonna give him like a like a deep government conspiracy podcast because that's what this guy was talking about.

SPEAKER_05 4:42

Instead, he says, uh Yeah, it's called the Eternal Creatures Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Straight face, but also not looking at me. Yeah, I was about to say, I I could not look at Andrew because I knew if I did, I would lose it.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

So we have one more listener now. Hopefully.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

Well, I I just like the idea that this man I like the idea that this man went to go see that podcast as an and is incredibly disappointed.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

He also he this is the last thing I'll say about him. Allegedly, he cycled across America like to preach the gospel. He's like some Catholic friar or something like that. We Googled him.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

And now he's working at a pub?

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Nope, not working. It wasn't working. Oh, he was just there. Way too long. Oh yeah. Way too long. Yeah, no, he was just there, and we we uh I'm gonna say Danny. Brooklyn Googled Googled him later on, and there was like a bunch of articles about this guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

I think I know who you're talking about, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

You know the guy?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

He's if it's the same dude, cycling you said, right? Yeah, I think he stopped at our church one time and talked to.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

I think he did.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

To um our volunteer Luke Parrott. Recently? Another old guy? No, Luke Parrott. All right, all right. Now we're bringing first and last names into this.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

Shout out, Luke, man. Different Luke. How are you guys doing? I how are y'all? Take it away, Liz.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

I'm doing pretty good, actually. I'm a little tired, but I'm good.

SPEAKER_04 6:11

That's fair.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

It is almost seven.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

I feel like I'm on an uphill after the past, like, you know, four months of being like depresso.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

So stressy, depressy. That's good. We like we like uphill.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Yeah. Uh but yeah, out of nowhere, the Lord just kind of is like, hey, you have a lot of burdens that you don't have to carry. And I repented of a few things. I didn't actually repent of the burden carrying, but like that just started a whole week of lightness. Like like walk into normal situations where I'd be like really stressed, and I just walked away feeling light, and I was like, okay, like my plate's lighter. And then would have like conversations, and I wasn't feeling like so bogged down on like what people thought of me afterwards. And I was like, okay, this is like cool. Had some cool reconciliation conversations, like nothing has changed in my life, but just like the perspective of me looking out and like what I take away from conversations has been like way different.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

So that is such a nice feeling when nothing changes, but your demeanor is better.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

And I'm just like, it has to be God because like I didn't do anything. It's not like it's not like fasting and praying and seeking the Lord doesn't also help with those things, but it's it wasn't like this big, like, I'm going to do this whole thing, and then I can attribute it to like my actions in that. So I don't know, but it was like encouraging, but it also makes me want to walk like more disciplined with the Lord now.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

So nice, very nice. All right, Luke. You weren't here for the last episode, so how are you doing? I'm good. Did you listen to the last episode? No. Alright. Well, well, that segment ended.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Um music. No, I'm like No, I I didn't. Um I am behind on a lot of podcast episodes that I've listened to across different uh creators. That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Um He's been uh writing.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Oh, he's been writing. Yeah, I've been writing. Um I'm sitting on a lot of stuff for my Substack. I hate hearing myself in my headphones. Um stack. What was I saying? I've been writing a lot for my Substack. I've got a lot that I'm sitting on. Um and it's I'm only sitting on it because I can't finish it. Because I I hit writer's block, like I I'll get like a like a nice flow state, and I'll get a bunch of information out, and then it just stops, and I'm like, well, I don't know how to put a bow on this. So my my most recent one that I put out on my sub stack, I don't remember what I called it. But the trumpets? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The trumpets. Oh, it's got it. Um I wrote that literally in the middle of the night, and I get to the very end, like the very last paragraph, and I sat on that paragraph for like close to a month. Um and I I looked at it, I would open it up, I would start writing something, and I wouldn't like it, so I delete it. And I just got to a point, like, whenever I posted it like what, a week ago or something, I was like, who cares? Like, I can't figure anything out to I can't figure out a way to wrap this up. So you're just gonna get exactly where I end with that one. Um and I think to a degree that one was okay to kind of end on, like where I was at. But um yeah, I got some other stuff. It was good that uh that I'm cooking on. Um I'm actually cooking on a lot of stuff right now, which is crazy. It's a little overwhelming, but I feel up to the challenge for the first time in my life. Um like for instance, I'm not creating a curriculum, but just kind of mapping out a way for our young adults group to go through the Bible in a year um in like a deep way, not just to read it and discuss it, but like try to make it a little deeper than that. Um and I'm gonna model it off of the curriculum that I used in my Bible school. But um my Bible school is only three months long, and we're gonna try and make this like a year. Um we'll see. It's still up in the air. It'll take some effort, and then yeah, we'll see where it goes. And then I have to write a letter of recommendation for Ryan, even though I don't recommend for anything. I'm just kidding. I love Ryan. Um, what else? And then there's one other thing that I'm cooking on, but I will not tell you guys. Ah I know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Enjoy Korean barbecue. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Oh, well, we're not cooking on that yet, but when we're done, I'm gonna go cook over at Hope.

SPEAKER_05 11:03

They're cooking on it, and we about to, you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Luke grills, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

I'm gonna cook googie right now, dude.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Yeah, so other than that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

I gotta light some fires, but we'll be good.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

I'm excited for you.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Andrew.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Good to be back.

SPEAKER_04 11:21

Man, I ain't doing nothing. That's not true. Uh, I'm just uh new, all kinds of stuff, man. New churches, new jobs, getting rid of old jobs, getting new jobs, new clothes. I got a whole new set of clothes coming. I'm excited for it. Huh?

SPEAKER_02 11:42

I got this new jacket today.

SPEAKER_04 11:43

It's a nice jacket. It's a nice jacket. It's it's brown.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Um, and we have a discussion on how what color this is. Um Luke has a new jacket. Wait, you do? I just want to go. You called it green and then called it gray. It's gray. It's maritime gray. And now Andrew called it brown. So this is the new It's like a brown gray.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

It's maritime gray. It's modeled after after mass gray, which is a camouflage pattern that the US.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Okay, so do you understand how I could get to green?

SPEAKER_02 12:15

No.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

No, no, I didn't. It's a green undertone.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

There is a green undertone.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

It's really unfortunate for our audio listeners. Audio listeners, just know it's green.

SPEAKER_04 12:25

I promise we will move to real topics so soon.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Just want a straight tone, man. Wait, what was that? What did you say over? We said over undertones, and I said straight tone, and then he went ta ha.

SPEAKER_04 12:41

No, but what was the last word? I heard man.

SPEAKER_05 12:45

I heard man over there.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

I heard straight tone.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

All right, all right. I'm just watching. I am in the middle of a Mexican standoff. I'm one that feels like neither of us. I'm afraid. Always watching. Anyway.

SPEAKER_04 13:01

All right.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Oh man, we're going off the rails today.

SPEAKER_04 13:04

No, I'm doing all kinds of stuff. Uh I'm also experimenting with solo episodes. So if you like my nonsense without their intelligence, hit me up soon, bro.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

I can't safely take a drink right now. I'm gonna spit it out.

SPEAKER_04 13:23

All right. All right, go and take your sip, because the next topic is coming right over to you. All right, all right, all right, all right. Yep, come on. Stand by, stand by.

SPEAKER_05 13:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 13:34

That wasn't even the that was loop drinking.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

That wasn't the fullest sip that I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Yeah, because half of it went down his chin.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

What are you talking about? Oh, it is. Uh this is the last episode that I'm ever gonna be on. Yep, get your giggles out now, because I'm sending this right over to y'all. We're about to talk about the charismatic church. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

And I guess what we care.

SPEAKER_05 13:58

I'm not on this.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

Yeah, we're gonna start this off with uh It's them. Do we care? Yeah. Yes. What do we care about, Liz?

SPEAKER_00 14:07

We care about cover-up culture in the charismatic church.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Yes. Andrew, I'm I'm not gonna lie, dude. You like not kicking us off with this, I'm nervous.

SPEAKER_05 14:19

I mean, hey.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

I can do it. I can do it.

SPEAKER_05 14:21

I'm trying, I'm trying to stay in the church. Y'all about to get excommunicated, not me. Yeah, no. I'm just playing, y'all. I care too. I just don't know as much as they do.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

All right, so for those who know, and for those who don't know, recently Mike Winger, who is a dude, he's a Christian dude, he has a YouTube channel. He's a pastor. Yeah. Oh, he's a pastor? Yeah, yeah. He's a pastor. Okay, okay. I'm not very familiar with like what he does outside of blowing people up. On YouTube. Yeah, on YouTube. Um but Mike Winger has dropped some YouTube videos as of late.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Um well, he's always been doing it, but this is the biggest one.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

Yeah, he's the he's the leader of the uh or the leader. He's the he started the I think it's called the Bible thinker podcast. Okay. Yeah. I didn't know that. And so he he's he t he regularly makes videos just answering questions about Christianity and everything, but um, and the Bible and everything, but he does uh every once in a while go on major, like long topics about important subjects. So like he did it for the women in uh ministry, and he is now uh he's now he he now did it for the topic that Luke's bringing up.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Yeah. So he this all kind of started last year. Um he released a video about Todd White. Um I haven't watched his first one. He released one recently, and I did watch that, but his first one um he released, and it was just uncovering like a bunch of just not okay stuff that was happening within Todd White's ministry. Um what is it called? Lifestyle Christianity. And um yeah, it kind of it started this this really big conversation about like spiritual abuse and cover-up culture within the charismatic church. And when we say charismatic church, what I mean is like the like the big names, like the big dogs, like the big ministries, like Bethel and Sean Bowles and Todd White and um Michael Coolanos at uh what Jesus Image. Jesus Image. Um stuff like that. So many more. But I people I am still a fan of Michael Coollianos. I think he's he's cool. Some weird stuff, but I think he's cool. Anyways. Um so recently uh Mike Winger puts out this video exposing Sean Bowles for um a bunch of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

False prophecy specifically.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Specifically false prophecy, where he's datamining off of Facebook people who are gonna be at these conferences he's preaching at. And he's just saying like random, or not random stuff, but like he's finding out stuff about people that are gonna be there on their Facebooks, and he's giving fake prophetic words about these things, like he's getting information off of their Facebook so it it comes across as like, oh, he heard something you know from God that's you know, like no one could know, you know, like how could he know that you're gonna be able to do that? Can I give an example? Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

So, like let's say he's coming to a conference and Luke, Andrew, and I all registered for this event. He would look on our Facebooks, our socials, and then he would go, um, I'm hearing like I hear the name Andrew, and I'm also like seeing the date like February 10th, maybe February 11th. Does that resonate with anyone in the audience? And it would almost get out like set up, and it's like, wow, man, like it's just an encouragement, like you know, God really sees you, God really wants to like tell you something. Hey, like I see something with like green and like is flowers is like something like really important to you. I don't know if that means anything. And I just keep hearing the word eternal over almost like paired with like creation, like, does that mean anything to you?

SPEAKER_04 18:27

How did you know I had a podcast on Apple and Spotify? Don't listen to it, Sean Bulls.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

And so it would go further from there. It's like, yeah, it just sounds like the Lord really wants to open up a door and just you know, explore eternity with you. And so I just want to give that to you in confidence and you can take that to the Lord. And I'm not trying to mock him doing this or saying anything, but that would be like an example of him using information. He's a false prophet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

We know what we do to false prophets, old testament vibes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Um and so that would just be finding out information that is very searchable on like public social platforms and then claiming to hear prophetic words based off of said information.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Right. So along the lines of that, like this cover-up culture topic, um Sean had basically been um kind of put up or uh he's been sponsored by Bethel from Pulpits.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

He's been called a friend of Bethel. He's been endorsed by several head leaders for books in the midst of scandals and years after.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Um, because I think it started in 2010. Like he it's he's been around a while.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Yeah, it's I didn't know about him until 2016. So kind of like where he gets platformed the biggest was um this this big event called Az Azusa Now. Um and at the time, I had just and like I had just gotten into YWAM, and when that event happened, I was in Nepal on a missions trip. So we what we were up like was it I can't remember if it was super late into the night or super early in the morning, but we were live streaming the worship and everything, and I had friends there, and I had a bunch of friends there um who were texting me about it and like all these things. And my buddy Ryan starts telling me about Sean Bowles, and he's like, dude, this guy's so prophetic, and like all this stuff. And Ryan and I like loved this guy for like a long time. We're like, yo, like, how can we get that prophetic? Like, that's just crazy, you know? And like the personal side of it, we we really followed not like we I I never read any of his books. I don't know about my my friend, but I never read any of his books. I just like watched the little clips on YouTube and whatnot. Um but then 2020 happened, and he gave this word about how COVID's gonna end and some political words.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Uh win a second presidency.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Yeah, in 2020, and like all these things, and then that didn't happen, and he didn't apologize for it. And when he did that, I was like, uh, I'm out. Like, I'm good, I don't want to listen to you. And by that time in my life, I had already kind of stopped listening to big name pastors um on the advice of Todd White, actually, which is cool. So I'll say this like kind of so I've met Todd, I've interacted with Todd, I have friends who have worked with Todd, and um yeah. So my experience, I'll this is I'll make this kind of brief. Um I used to idolize Todd when I first got saved. Like that dude was my standard of what it meant to be a Christian. Really? Yeah. And like I wanted the the miracles, the signs, the wonders, like the dreads. The the dreads. Yeah, because my I'm my hair's really long now. Sick flow. But yeah, sick flow. Absolutely sick flow. Thank you. He's teaching us about hockey and stuff. I guess that's a term.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

It's on his bingo card.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

I just threw that away. I was cleaning out my truck. Anyway, we're gonna we're gonna get derived. Oh my god, moving on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can't do this. We can't do this.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

So Tabby, come after him.

SPEAKER_02 22:29

Okay, okay, okay, okay. So um, yeah, I like totally idolized Todd and all this stuff, and he would come into uh Y Wam Kona and he would speak. That's where I that's where I did YWAM. And there was one night I was hanging out in the area where all of our guest speakers stay and everything like that, and I was just chilling, and Todd comes walking up, and I'm like, yo, I need to ask this guy a question. Um let me preface it with this. Before I met Todd like in person, I had this dream one night where I met him exactly where I where I met him. And after talking to him, I went to our prayer room and I got on my face and I repented for idolizing him. It was so strange. So then fast forward how I don't even remember how much time there was between that, but it was like a couple months. Um I'm sitting there and up walk walks Todd, and I'm like, yo, this is sick. So I asked him this question. I don't remember what it was, and he gave me some answer that went so over my head because I was just like not in the word like I should be, like I was listening to people too much, that he was talking about the Psalms and David and all these things that I had no understanding of. And at the end of the conversation, I realized that he was a normal dude like me, you know. And my our prayer room is in that building that I was hanging out at, and I went straight to my spot on the second, like the the second floor of our prayer room. Those who know me know where that spot is, and I got on my face and I repented because I was like, dude, I idolize this guy, and he's just normal, you know? Like he's just a dude with dreads, you know, and a weird mustache.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

So with that, with that concept in mind, I guess, um what is I'm just gonna play the role of the person who hasn't been paying attention to this and doesn't really know the danger of it, right? It's not in their life. False prophet. I dude looks his congregants up online, his conference goers up online, he lies to them to make them feel good. What's what's the big deal? What's the danger? Why should I be so concerned? Other than the fact that I don't like my pastors lying to me.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Uh so I think there's two answers. Obviously, anyone who speaks for God should take that seriously. Uh, it's a huge weight whenever you get on the platform and you say, Thus saith the Lord, or you say, I feel like God is saying, or hey, like the word wants to the Lord wants to encourage you this way. Like, there are very specific times where the Lord has given words of encouragement to me through other people, and I'm like, Wow, only the Lord could have told them that. There have been times also where the encouragement was so broad and blank and stated that I could say the same thing to anyone and be like, hey, God loves you so much and God sees you, he is going to be with you. Like, that's an encouragement, that's not prophecy.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Um, what really needs to be highlighted in addition to everything that we shared about people and idolizing is um remember, people are people.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Remember that it's God who speaks and uses people to speak, but at the end of the day, those vessels are still humans, and we're not going to be fully transformed into the image of Jesus until we see him face to face. Um, we're literally just vessels and conduits of his voice. And those who are willing to be obedient, like they should take the task like seriously, but then they should also like not find their identity in it. Um, the other part that's kind of dangerous about this is we mentioned what the topic is called like cover-up culture. The problem is not only with the these the individuals who claim to make, you know, uh claims for God and then being false. It's those people who are called to be accountable to calling out false prophets are afraid of calling it out. Yeah. So like people who once sponsored these people never made a statement until it got in front of the people's eyes, going viral. It's like, oh, now we have to address it. Because the shepherds were looking after themselves, they were feeding themselves instead of caring for the sheep. This is a passage we see in Ezekiel 34, the reckless shepherds of Israel, where it's like, hey, like no one's tending the sheep, and the shepherds are just caring for themselves. And this is where Jesus comes in flipping it. He's like, All right, I'm gonna be the good shepherd. I'm gonna take care of you guys. Like the shepherds have actually like let the sheep go astray. I'm gonna go find them. I'm gonna go be the one that they needed. They're gonna hear my voice, they're gonna know my name. And so I think like that is the more dangerous part is when those who are able to call people out and accountable, like it's really difficult in this culture because you see a lot of the people who wanted to call him out, but they didn't have the authority or the num, unfortunately, the numbers or the power to call him out. Because big names, unfortunately, a lot of money, popularity. Like it's so unfortunate how like a true claim trying to call him out needs more weight and emphasis behind it to actually get stuff done.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

Yeah, and then even like they're on the Sean Bull side of it. Um Mike Winger goes through this this chain of emails with Chris Vallatin, one of the um one of the leaders of of Bethel, and it's it's over the course of like a few months, right? Or it might even be a couple years.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

I would say like a few years of this one individual.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

And this person is like, hey, Sean's done this or Sean's done that, like can we can you do something about that? Like you're the leader, can you do something? And Chris just kind of like brushes it off over like all the years, and then he gets to a point where Chris actually gets mad.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

And he's slightly admitting to it too, but he's saying, like, my hands are tied. Yeah, but he is admitting to the falsities committed.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Exactly. Um, and it's like it's like you can do something about it, and he it's almost like like doing the bare minimum, you know. It's like, oh, we told him not to come to min like he's not allowed in our ministry anymore.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Or we'll take his books out, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

We'll take his books down or you know, whatever. But it's like you're like not actually caring about, like you said, like your flock, you know. And then so aside from the false prophecy side, the other dangerous side about like Todd White, and this is what I experienced, was um this, like I said, this standard of Christianity that isn't real. Todd claimed to like basically never sin once he got saved. And yeah, it's quite a statement. I've had people defend that too. And I'm like, I remember at first I was like, Oh yeah, that you know, that makes sense, like the way you explain it. And when I started reading the Bible for myself, on his own volition, like I should say, he was like, he said, Don't I listen to him say this multiple times? He said, Don't take my word for it, go read the Bible for yourself. So I did, and I was like, I stopped listening to every big name pastor, and because I got to this point with Todd where he was my standard, and I was wrong because Jesus is my standard, and I put Todd in that place, and I was like, Oh, I keep sinning. Oh, I prayed for this person and they didn't get healed, or I did this and it didn't work out, but Todd, it works out for Todd every single time, so he's this super Christian, you know, like he's way better than me, and I can't be that way, and it was so discouraging, but like come to find out, like it's a lie, you know. So my standard on my own part was wrong because I I was idolizing men, but two, like I oh man, I just totally shown was like false.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

It wasn't genuine, exactly. Yeah, the the example was fake and it was it was wrong, you know. Um there I have been told stuff from people that I know that know Todd that I I won't get into just because of names and whatnot. But um after the Mike's first video came out, I had a friend tell me a friend who used to defend Todd. He told me he was like, Yeah, I've I've heard Todd say this, this, and this in the car. I've I've seen Todd respond this way to his kids and stuff like that. And I'm like, whoa.

SPEAKER_04 31:37

All right. You said the you said the big pastor uh statement a couple times. Is that because of stuff like this, or is it just because of where you were in your faith walk? Maybe you were following them more than you were following scripture, which is very common. Yeah, yeah, oh, for sure, for sure. Um I just kind of wanted to clarify that and you know, dive into it if it was related to this topic, or just kind of if it's not, and it's just like, oh, it's just where I was, then just kind of clarify that as well.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

No, yeah, absolutely. I think it it definitely had like my where I physically was, like the ministry that I was in and the leaders I was surrounded by, it was definitely influenced by that. Um, because I I remember being in YWM Kona, there's so many different ministries going on. And I I'll say this YWM's got issues, but I love YWAM. I would I would do YWM for the rest of my life, despite all the issues. Um, I know that's a hot topic for a lot of people, but um there's a separate department on the YWM Kona base, it's the Bible department. That's where I ended up like ending my like quote unquote YWM career was in the Bible department. And before that is when all these names are coming in and all these things, and like all like the when I say names, like the big names, and like that's all I listened to, you know. I didn't I like read my Bible right, but I didn't know the Bible. I didn't know how to read it, I didn't know what anything meant or like anything like that. So it was it was myself as well, like not um it was my like my um what's the word I'm looking for? My environment as well as my own lack of care for my own faith, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

So I think a good like summary of like that would be we we as humans, because we don't understand like God is spirit and like we're flesh, and so we're trying to understand things we can't see, but we're understanding he's moving. Like John 3 calls the Holy Spirit, he's like the wind, you can't see it, but you see the effects of it. I think what's really easy in this culture now, especially with social media, now with um cameras all the time, that we're able to capture stuff when things go viral, or even in our own local churches, when we see repeatedly the Lord using his anointed, we stop, and it's so it's such a thin line. Like, I have to check myself on this too. Like we can start to worship the one, like instead of the one who gives the anointing and what everything's supposed to point glory to, we get used to seeing the visible, and it's so easily what you said to put people, to put giftings, to put anointing on the pedestal instead of keeping that altar clear and saying, Wow, God showed up and used this person in this way, we got to give God the glory. It's such a fine line because again, like we Hebrew says faith is based on things that we we hope for that we can't see, but when we see something, it's like, oh, it's so hard to like detach from what we see to like beyond the visible dimension. Yeah, so that's what I struggle with too, because in full-time ministry, like a lot of times it's really hard to understand you're held to a higher standard, and that's different than what we're talking about. But like with that higher standard, you want to make sure that people see you as normal humans too, and we're functioning on platform roles or in major leadership roles where we're leading. We're not here to air out our dirty laundry list of sins to everyone we're leading at the same time, but we're also not trying to elevate ourselves saying we are so better, that's why these things are going well. And um, yeah, so that's just from like a full-time ministry person said, like the balance is so weird. And um multi most of the time when people come up to me after worship, they're like, Thank you so much for leading worship that way. I'm like, I'm so glad the Lord showed up. And it's not one of those, like, I'm gonna pass it because I'm trying to deflect or I'm not acknowledging the Lord uses the gifts that he's given me. And it is part obedience that I'm use submitting myself to him, but it's all him. And I say, I'm thankful the Lord used me and I'm glad the Lord blessed you. Like it has to be that simple from our response back. And that's what like anyone with a gift, and that's like when you do your job, when you are a mom or a dad, like when you are a kind stranger, like helping someone else, like it's not just for full-time ministry people either.

SPEAKER_04 36:02

So when I when I was looking into this uh topic, and I did do some research, y'all, but uh not not not enough to feel like I had a deep contribution. And so but when I was listening to some of the stuff that was being talked about, I've been to a bunch of churches uh throughout my time, and some of them have been charismatic churches, and some of the stuff actually most of the past few I've been to, and some of the stuff that they were doing wrongly sounded like a lot of the stuff that I believe is happening genuinely in my church and uh or in my churches. And um I think that there's probably plenty of people who feel the same way who look at Bethel and see the abuse of those tactics and are now looking at their church with a little bit of the side eye like this. Sounds like what I just heard on Sunday. Maybe not exactly, and maybe but maybe you're new. Maybe no, I'm not always I I think I grew up more in like typical reform churches, not as much in charismatic or hyper charismatic churches, and there is a balance uh or there is a slight difference there, and so for the person that's looking at their church now and is maybe a bit concerned, there's they may be new to this prophecy thing, they may be new to the to how people talk about the gifts of the spirit and everything like that. What do you what do you what do you say to those people? What do you what do you what are your thoughts for those people who are now maybe a bit concerned about their church and their church decisions and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_00 38:04

I raised my hand. I really was hoping my shoulder would pop or something. So it did. Did it?

SPEAKER_02 38:10

It did.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Oh. I just head voted. Yeah, if you didn't feel it, I I heard it. Oh, okay. Is that why you're gonna laugh?

SPEAKER_02 38:16

No, I was gonna cut you off. That's why I was laughing.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

But I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

So I have this idea now. I'm just kidding. Um, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Um, it's really cool because we started to talk about this in church actually this past week about the gifts in the body, 1 Corinthians 12. It's the passage that a lot of people typically know as the eye, the hand, the foot. Like, don't like where we are part of a body. But it's specifically referencing like those with different giftings given by the same Holy Spirit. And then on chapter 14, you have the instructions for prophecy in tongues. And so that's just for the uh use of spiritual gifts and order. But I just realize how much we like undermine the passage of 1 Corinthians 13 at weddings, because Paul isn't talking about using this, like when he writes this, he's not thinking that this is gonna be the most quoted scripture at weddings um during vows. But it's really like verse two was the the verse that like struck me this past sermon. If I have prophetic powers and I understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but have not love, I am nothing. And it goes through that through different like parts of the spiritual gifts. If I speak the tongue of men and angels and I have not um love, um, if I give all the way, if I'm so generous, if I give up my body, if I am sacrificial, but I have not love, I gain nothing. And then it goes into that familiar passage. Like I think you can all know when something is done with love. And so does that mean those who love us are perfect? No, the only one who, yeah, Jesus is the only one who has perfectly loved us and will continue to perfectly love us. I love the phrase steadfast love because it's one of the attributes that God continually reminds me of steadfast love, continual love, and his love is perfect. Um just don't get jaded by the mysteries of everything and just ask at the end, like, do these people love me? And then you can reconcile, ah, they made a mistake afterwards. You don't always have to call them out on the mistake. Yeah, but it's like, hey, like if these people, and I've had to do this several times, like in my life with different leaders and even friends who are like, you know, exploring being prophetic or speaking words of encouragement, or even, you know, if they love me, like and they get it wrong, like they're not under they're not trying to undermine me in the process for selfish gain. They're learning, but also like it's on them to also in the learning, like not say something totally off.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

Yeah. It's like don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to uh incompetence, you know. And I I had to do that recently as well, where like I was really frustrated with somebody, and um and I was like, you know what, I I know this person cares about me, you know, and like wants to see me grow, wants to see me thrive, want you know, all these things. And I I just had to like forgive them in my heart, you know, and then ask the Lord for forgiveness. Um to back to your question about, you know, what do we say to the people who who have seen Mike's videos and all of a sudden feel a little bit um uh feel like yeah, jaded or feel like they're struggling or something like that. Um I can only offer my my experience um because I'm kinda I was going through this before Mike's videos dropped, um but even more so afterwards. Um I got to this point where and I I have a friend who got to this point as well, where the charismatic church, it just felt like they can write their own rules and get away with stuff, you know? And obviously they can't. And I've talked about this a few times on some of the episodes that I've been looking into Orthodoxy and Anglicanism, um, and gleamed wisdom from the Catholics and whatnot. Um, but the one thing that I really appreciate that I that I actually despised for a long time was tradition, like church tradition and church history, where I was like, well, that's dumb because it's not the Bible. And it's like, well, it's not it's not actually that dumb, and it's not actually like that far out there, right? Like if there was a standard to what we consider church, and like the apostles' disciples held that standard, or they they had a standard for prophecy, or they had a standard for the gifts, so okay, well early church. Yeah, yeah. It's like what what was that standard? Like what what like if you go as as close back to Jesus as you can, like historically, like let's look at these traditions and let's look at these standards that they set because because in in that lies some direction, in that lies some truth, right? Um I had somebody tell me recently I I I have a tattoo on my right bicep, it says saint. And somebody asked me recently, Oh, are are you a saint? Because of that tattoo, and I said, Well, I'm not canonized, right? It was a joke. Um, because I'm like, I'm not a canonized saint. And Orthodoxy or Catholicism. Um it's just a joke. But you know, we're all part of the sainthood and blah blah blah blah. The priesthood. The priesthood, thank you. Anyways, um and I was like, Well, I'm not canonized, and this this person kind of got a little defensive. Yeah. And was just like, Well, that's dumb. Like, you know, the saints are dumb. And I'm like, You mean to tell me like the the apostles are dumb?

SPEAKER_00 44:22

I think it's because like we generalize uh the word saints.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I know I know the reason why these things were being said to me, like the the the response that it was. And I thought about this and I'm like, like the saints have set a standard and they've walked such incredible lives in devotion to the Lord. Like we shouldn't, we should look at this, you know, like these are things that we should like, these are stories that sh we should read and people that we should listen to and and then take that and reflect it on scripture. You know? Like, okay, is is what they're living and is what they're saying uh, you know, uh supported by scripture. And if it's not, throw it away. Uh-huh. You know? But yeah, I encourage people to like if they're struggling, just go to church history and tradition, you know. And and I'm not saying that it replaces scripture. If you take that away, you didn't listen to a word I said, rewind and try again. Tradition, yeah. But yeah, the there are there are tools and there are writings and there is there are things in place that have been passed down from generation to generation of the of from the early church until now that we can we can take wisdom from, we can learn from, and we can grow from. And there's stuff we can throw away because it's it is outside of scripture, yeah, and that's the ultimate authority. Um that's my thought. Little rabbit trail. I'm I'm going I can feel my brain going like a thousand rabbit trails tonight.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Yeah. Um I gave a very like churchy answer the first time, so I wanted to give the other actual answer too, which is also my experience. And Andrew, I don't know if you want to share maybe your experience afterwards too, or just share too. Um I think the most impactful thing for me um when dissecting some of these questions was having people surrounding me who loved me, who loved the Bible, and who know the Lord's voice. Um, we say the Holy Spirit, and I just um like I surrounding myself with people who knew the word like me, who knew what the Lord's voice sounded like to me. Um, well, not to me, but like also who knew the Lord's voice, but also sought out my benefit, like you guys, Hammy, Brooklyn, Hammy, um, so many others from group mentors, like openly wrestling with these things in front of people is the way also to get out of it, too. Because one, it makes you feel less alone, it breaks any shame that you're like, I'm a bad Christian if I'm questioning this, or like how dare I like voice this down, or I don't want to lead down a path to what some people would call like deconstruction if I start the wormhole opening. Like the last like few months for me, tackling some areas of this have been like very discouraging. And I thought several times, not that I would walk away from the faith, but I'm like, man, my closeness to the Lord is getting farther and farther and farther every single day. I wrestle with this, but there was no way I was gonna get back to an honest like place before the Lord if I didn't wrestle this out, and I needed a little more grace and reminder of how much like the Lord still had me, even in the wrestling. And like so many things and times where I would just call out to these guys and in group chats and just be like, guys, like I'm not doing well. Like, I don't know if I would specifically say why, but it was often from like so many questions of just trying to reconcile what was in the Bible, reconciling what was done wrong on the media, and then trying to reconcile like what I'm seeing in my own personal experiences and how scripture can trump all of it. So wrestle with friends who love the Lord and love you.

SPEAKER_04 48:23

Yeah, and love the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:26

I don't I don't really have much deeper uh than that or much more than that. I agree with um especially what Liz said about community. I'm just gonna bring up a couple um resources that I use because I think sometimes when the world shows you lies, it's nice to combat it with truth. Yeah. Amen. And while scripture is absolutely top authority over everything, sometimes you do just need your questions answered. Like a tool. Yeah. And so, like when I I'm gonna suggest a couple books. I'm not when I give you these books, it's not so because you need these to have a great theology. All right. If you don't need if you don't have these questions, don't worry about the books. All right, go ahead, do your Bible study, and then go read your magic tree house and go, you know. Magic tree go to the park and go hang out. Yeah, there's no you don't need to do more than you need to do, all right? So um for people who maybe don't understand prophecy, the Holy Spirit, that kind of stuff, The Familiar Stranger by Tyler Staten. I know I brought it up, but that's Tyler. That's the book I use to start understanding the Holy Spirit um as someone who does not uh who uh is still learning what it means genuinely. So the other one I'm going to going to search, and this is because church can get exhausting. And watching other people's churches can get just as exhausting as see as trying to love your own. And so The Loveliest Place by Dustin Benge B-E-N-G-A, um is about just the beauty of church and the true beauty of church from the perspective of Jesus who established, who set up the church, who is the reason for the church. And so sometimes when the world when we as sinners are just so good at making things ugly, we need to remind ourselves about the beauty. That way we don't lose the love for what God made. Even if we're tired by what we have a tendency to destroy. So that's just so for anybody who may be a bit jaded, a bit tired of mega churches, a bit, I'm sure there's plenty of conversations that we could have. We're not going to today, but maybe someday we will. Uh I just wanted to bring that up for people. So uh wanna end off with new music? I'm good. New music, book suggestions. We got some good stuff. All right, we got some good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 51:09

So there's a lot of new music out. I gotta check.

SPEAKER_04 51:12

All right. So uh Liz, you want to start us off?

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Yeah, so I am inspired by a Substack reading that I had recently by Jonathan. Oh show yourself out first. Dig as well. Yeah. Yep, that's where all his writings are. Read where he's um posting.

SPEAKER_04 51:30

I was really inspired. That's the ad. So you can read what he's doing.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

If you want, Ella Inc.

unknown 51:38

Yeah, that one.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

One L. Guys, uh, it's not like E-L-L-A because it's my initials. So E-L-A dot ink. Because it's ink. You know, like pens and all right, Liz.

SPEAKER_04 51:50

How about that music?

SPEAKER_00 51:52

You said writing, but anyway. I know, but Jonathan. I didn't say spell ink for the I-N-K.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

I think I spelled it wrong. There's a C in mine. Corporation.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

Okay, I'm pulling it up.

SPEAKER_05 52:07

Um Elizabeth Evelyn Corporation. We can't afford the rest of that.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

That's crazy. Didn't you just put my name to Doofenschmert? Yeah, that's awesome. I am from the tri-state area, so um he wrote this post.

unknown 52:30

Gosh.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

The giggles are coming.

SPEAKER_04 52:33

I love when we catch Liz. And she just can't continue. She's just gonna be like, gosh. These fools. She's frustrated because she's turning red. She's like, ah, these sea monkeys. Look at these two.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

You're redder than I am right now.

SPEAKER_04 52:47

Guess I'm laughing. I'm not, but go ahead, Liz.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

Okay. Jonathan Ogden wrote an article called It Cannot Always Be Night. And so earlier, if this is an album from 2025, he wrote an album called Night, and then he was originally supposed to, within like a week or two, drop another album called Day to like um do compare-contrast. And um, this night album is compared comprised of songs where he was just wrestling with the Lord, and you can read this on his substack. And I just was really encouraged to re-listen to this entire album. I listened to it when it first dropped. I'm not sure if I mentioned it earlier on the podcast, but it just really meant a lot to me to see like um people who I feel like have it more together, like still go through the wrestling scenes um behind. And so I just really appreciated that. And then he dropped a single from his new album called Day. Um, and please read the article. I'm not doing justice on just like how much the Lord has like used this um outlet for him to explore and to wrestle through questions and to feel actually the intimacy of the Lord in the darker valleys and the darker pits, and so he dropped a new song that really encouraged me called What If. And there's just a lot of these questions from like starting a life still wrestling, but also like kind of what you were saying, like trying to find the beauty, trying to understand like the purpose in the midst of a lot of things. And so a few lyrics that I just really hold on, I'm trying to pull up the lyrics and um yeah. Actually, let me just read a little bit about the song. And like he wrote, he said, Do you ever feel a little overwhelmed by the treadmill of modern life? From the moment you wake up, you're just faced with messages and ads and things that seem to pull you into a place of a discontentment. For years I brought into the ideas that when I get blank, I'll be happy, constantly striving for something. But I realized even having the privilege to experience some of these things for myself and to reach some of the goals I had set out, it never tastes really as sweet as you think it's going to. I found myself just wanting the next goal and such and such and such. So it said after years of introspection and trying to figure it out, I started thinking that maybe the goalposts have been wrong the whole time. Maybe life gets more beautiful and complete when we look beyond ourselves and our own desires, and this is what the song is about. So I'm excited. It's called What If by Jonathan Ogden, and a few of the his other works are just really encouraging to me during this time.

SPEAKER_04 55:27

So I love that song, What If. It's it's nice to be convicted to happy music. Like when it's like, what if life is about more than your happiness? But it's to a happy beat. I'm like, ah, I I that stung, but it's to a nice bop. So yeah. That I just completely ruined your music review.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

All right, uh, Luke, go ahead. Music. I'm gonna burn through this because I see what Andrew has in his hand, and I want to say something about that too. Um new music. Uh Ella Langley, Dandelion, and be her. That song makes me want to be her. I'm not afraid to say that. Um, that's cool. That's a good.

SPEAKER_05 56:07

We'll get into that in another episode.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

A good thing I'm excited about. Ella's album. Um Luke Combs. Yep, Luke Combs, the way I am. He has some stuff out on that. That's good.

SPEAKER_04 56:19

Let me ask you something real quick. Because Ella's obviously there's a Christian podcast. We say Jesus a lot. Uh Ella's not Christian. Yes, she is. Is she? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

Post all the time about her doing Bible studies and whatnot. Does she really? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. You talk about my girl like that. Ella with two L's. Alright, go back, girl. Yeah, no, no. She she loves Jesus. Told me. Um I don't know about Luke Combs being a Christian.

SPEAKER_04 56:54

All right. But um, I was gonna say, like, if you bring on secular music, right, what what do you think people should take away from it? Like, what are you listening to it for? What do you what do you like about it?

SPEAKER_00 57:05

He likes country music.

SPEAKER_02 57:06

Well, yes, but the reason I listen to country music.

SPEAKER_04 57:09

I'm just saying, why are we suggesting it to the people? What do you what do you what is the take or what do you take away from it?

SPEAKER_02 57:14

Uh country music specifically for me. Um I think the reason people don't like country music is because it like they're not reminiscent of what they're listening to. Like they can't put themselves in the song. I think that's the thing that makes country music so beautiful is you can resonate it with it. Like I I can't resonate with anything Taylor Swift says or anything you know Eminem says or Kendrick Lamar or whatever or you know name them, I can't I can't resonate with them. But with country music I can, you know. Um so I like it because I am learning how to process my emotions more in a healthy way. But for me, for years, music was the way that I did it. Um because if I listened to a song and I could put myself in the song, I would feel the emotions that I was struggling to feel, you know. Um I feel that I feel that being said, when I listen to Be Her by Ella Langley, those are not emotions that I have to process. It's just a banger. Um so yeah, I I like good music. Like I didn't not everything in music for me has to be super deep. Sure. But a lot of it is. I would say more often than not, the music is deep.

SPEAKER_04 58:35

Like I think the I think the only reason I ask is because we obviously are Christian, we have a Christian audience. You know, it can get a bit we can get a little bit finicky when it comes to listening to secular music. So if we bring it to people to suggest, yeah, I always want to think about like, okay, I have no problem with listening to it. And some people are just gonna listen to stuff for fun. But when we suggest it on this kind of platform, what do we want you to hear?

SPEAKER_02 59:01

Yeah. I don't know what I want you to hear. I I'm just telling you what I'm listening to.

SPEAKER_04 59:06

Fair.

SPEAKER_02 59:06

Um honestly like I I don't I hadn't thought that deep about it.

SPEAKER_04 59:09

It's alright. I you know I I it's it's how I tend to view it, and so maybe it's a good thing to bring to the to the crew and just let people know that's how I bring it. Like sometimes we just bring up Olivia Dean and we'll let you guys have your moment with their female music artists. We just enjoy her, and and we don't think her lyrics are like you know crass or not like that. So it's it's just they're classy. Yeah, yeah. It's not bad.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

It's yeah, so um okay. Uh yeah, sorry, I didn't want to mean to interrupt you. No, it's all good, it's all good. Uh I got two more um Jackson Dean. Uh for those who don't know him, he's awesome. I just found him last year. Um he has an album that's coming out called Magnolia Sage. Um Country Guy.

SPEAKER_00 59:58

Sounds like the name of like a seven-year-old.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

What? Like a seven-year-old kid? Like what the heck? Mike from Hollywood. In YWAM Kona, there would definitely be some. I wait. There was a kid. There was a kid that was there that's name was Sage.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

I know I know people name their kids like these like flowery names.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:19

I heard I've heard some crazy ones. I'll tell you off pod. Um he's got a song on here called Um on this album that one of the singles that's already out. Be Your Man. Whole vibe, super fun. Um, and then the last one, uh, I found this today when I was at the gym. Um, it's called Fearin' God by Avery Anna or Anna, however you say that, and Sam Barber. Uh absolute heat. So good. And uh Olivia, Olivia Dean's shout-out, uh, Rain Me In. Very good.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:54

Sweet, sweet. All right. I got one album to bring to y'all. Although I will do a double shout-out from uh the one with Brooklyn on it. I've been listening to that uh to the House of Worship album. Girl.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:08

I'm the one who showed up Brooklyn that.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:10

Hey yo, if you are between the age of 25 and older, get that recognition, please. It's me. I brought it to her. We're not hated. But if you are between the ages of 25 and up, uh, then stupid.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:32

Luke. Luke looked up. I can't stand this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:37

We heard we heard Scooter or Molly upstairs.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:39

All right, we are running out of pod time, so let's keep going.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:42

But uh, it's got all the heat worship songs and the worship songs you can sing.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:47

So if Brandon Lake, if you don't have the tone and the gifting to sing Brandon Lake or the dreads, uh, then you can come back to some House of Worship music and sing the old goodies from the 90s.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:02

Come on now.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

The original songwriter is paired with someone who's current in CCM for most of this album, so it's a great um album of featuring several artists.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:13

That is a fun fact. All right. The la the last album I have to suggest is Metamorphosis by Liddy Lynn. Um, she has released a seven-track project, and it's all about the balance between understanding that God is that God is the reason for living, that he is the only thing in this life that matters, and also trying to let go of the old you, trying to let go of the old things you've lost, and you know, moving forward in life, trusting him, but also, you know, being like, yo, I God, I don't know what we're doing here. I I'm I'm trying to trust you, but I'm missing some stuff from the past. All right. So, and I think that's just such a relatable thing. Whether you were f have been following God for a long time or not, uh I think we all go through different stages where we feel that way. So, Lydie Lynn, just beautiful. Um, yeah, go and listen to that more metamorphosis. All right, we're gonna close it out. Let's go with my boy, our boy. I'm so stoked for this.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:19

Joshy.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:20

Josh Nado read it when I get home. Has released his uh book, Heaven Meets Earth: A 40-day journey of transformation through the Nicene Creed. Now, Luke, go on, hit us with what the Nicene Creed is. Oh, I'm from the Council of Nicene. Oh, just what it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:38

Oh, I was like, I haven't memorized that one yet. Um it's a creed that was formed at the Council of Nicaea, and the reason it was formed was to basically combat against Gnostic heresy that had uh infiltrated the church, and Gnostic heresy would is is to say that like the heresy is Jesus is not God, right? He was like they they denied that he was fully man and fully God, they just said he was um somebody sent by God who was fully man and did powerful things by the power of God, but not that he was God.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

So like a prophet.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:18

Um why is this important for everything that we just talked about with Bethel? Because Scripture tells the truth about God. The Nicene Creed just tell takes the basic truths that we believe about God from Scripture and puts it into kind of like a statement of belief. I don't know. And so what this book is, is meditating on a certain portion of uh it takes 40 days to m to uh meditate on a certain portion of the um of the Nicene Creed. And so he does it in two ways. So you spend two days on the same passage. And so uh and and so the first day is just reading it, he has some words about it, and then you just meditate on that. He gives some thought questions and you just think about it and sit with it. And and uh in it, you're examining who God is and the character of God, and he's digging into why this portion, the first part, I believe in one God, Father Almighty, why is that important? And you're just thinking about that. The second thing, and this is my favorite part of this, is that he uses art and he draws a picture, and he's a great artist, um, you know, with this really cool kind of folklore kind of style of art. And you just witness the the painting and you examine it and see what does this painting based on this portion of the creed say about God. And so you spend two days on these portions. And so l uh understanding uh uh uh just who God is and basing your faith on who God is is the thing that gets you through this crazy life. Whether it's involving Christians or it's involving non-Christians. And so I just I've loved it. I mean, I've only been through a few days so far, but just the process that it goes through, it's so short, simple, relaxing, beautiful. I'm a big fan.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:29

Yeah, I've been going through it um day by day for uh Lent, and it's it's been really awesome. Read it before I go to bed and just think about it as I fall asleep. That's awesome. So yeah, it's beautiful. I love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:40

So I have an idea on how to close this out. It's not that long. I want to read the Nicene Creek. Yes, let's do it from the book, and then I'll hit the outro.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

It does not have the Filioque in it, which is beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:55

That's uh that's a later episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:57

Yeah, yes. So, ladies and gentlemen, I hope you've enjoyed listening to this. Um, in case you are still wondering, all right, why the heck would I listen to this devotional or read this devotional about the Nicene Creed? Let me read the Nicene Creed. And if you're interested, go get the book. It's on Amazon. I've actually seen a copy in Barnes and Noble, so depending on it. So if you're awesome, if you're interested, I mean, look up your Barnes and Noble. It might be at your local bookstore. Let me go buy another one. So uh it's at the Newport News one for us. Sorry, I have I keep turning away from the mic. Okay, okay, okay. All right, so the nicene creed. And this is important because this is what the Eternal Creatures podcast is also all about. I believe in one God, Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible, and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father, before all ages, light of light, true God of true God, begotten, not created, of one essence with the Father, through whom all things were made, who for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit, and the Virgin Mary, and became man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried, and he rose on the third day, according to the scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he will come again with glory to judge the living and dead. His kingdom shall have no end. And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the creator of life, who proceeds from the Father, who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, who spoke through the prophets in one holy, Catholic, and apostolic church. I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the age to come. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

Amen.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:18

Eternity is for those who walk with God. Until the next time, y'all have a kid.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:23

Play the music, Kate.