Christianity is WHAT?!?

Today, for the first time ever, it’s just Da Boyz!   Andrew and Luke take over the pod to discuss future plans for fatherhood and a new article by rapper Jon Keith about how Christianity is a religion, not a relationship.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:42

I'm happy. I'm I'm on the wine. I'm on the wine. Um but uh yeah and uh today's episode what do we do?

SPEAKER_01 0:50

We dedicate things.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Sometimes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Okay, yeah, well.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Every time, actually.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Today's episode, isn't it? Uh today's episode is dedicated to uh men who like their wives. Not every guy likes their wives. I don't know how to do this.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

I thought you were gonna ask me if I like my wife. I don't I don't have one of those.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Nah, nah, I wasn't gonna ask you.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

I sound like I took a run. I didn't. This is naturally generated. Um but yeah, no. I don't know if you knew this, but not every guy likes their wife. Some people wake up and look at their wife like Monday. They're like, Grab, you still here? Like you're back? I didn't, I was not looking forward to seeing you.

SPEAKER_05 1:33

Rolling over in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Yeah, this episode is not for them. Y'all need to go process some pain or something.

SPEAKER_05 1:39

Yeah, y'all go to therapy.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

This is this episode is for the people that look at their wives and they're like, Wow, you gave me that?

SPEAKER_08 1:47

Yeah, I got that.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

You're still here? Crazy work.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Then then they go away and they thank the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

A lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

So they thank the Lord at the end of every day. Oh, thank you. I didn't mess this up.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

And the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

The beginning. And somewhere at lunch. So uh this is I'm gonna just give y'all gentlemen some Andrew Browner Brownie points, which, you know, of course, means something. Um, if you're listening to this episode right now and you're one of these men that like your wives, then uh I'm gonna need you to pause this episode. Don't don't cancel it. Just pause it. We need the we need the views. Um but but just pause this episode, take a look at your wife, look her straight in her big doughy eyes, and say, and say, you know what, girl, I rock with you. And watch the confusion come over her face. As she's like, you've never said rock with you once in your life. Yeah. And then let her know, babe, I've been listening to the Eternal Creatures podcast.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Exactly. I picked that up from Andrew. Yeah. I start, I tell people, yeah, I rock with you.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Listen, man, I'm influential. Um, if you're wondering, Luke, I don't really know how to break this to them. If you're wondering why this thing sounds different, I'm gonna be honest with you. Uh I'm just ripped the band-aid off. We had to drop list.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

Uh a conflict came up.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Look, Luke, you may not know this. Uh, I had a meeting with the board.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

And uh listen, we are just absolutely just bleeding money. They were shocked. They were looking at the numbers and we're like, y'all, your numbers aren't red, they're burgundy. Like, we don't know. Like, you're making negative money. So what's wrong with that?

SPEAKER_03 3:26

We can smell the iron.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Yeah, what's wrong with you guys? So we went through the cast and and we had to figure out who is the cheap, who is like the most expensive member of the cast. Uh, we started with me. Mine was quick.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Um I don't know if you I don't know, like you guys watch like sports pod, like uh sports debate shows, and there's like Stephen A. Smith, the white guy they sent across from Stephen A. Smith, and the woman in the middle. Now, uh, some of you misogynists think that we hired Liz for that position. No, that's me. Uh I'm just here for quips and occasional like topic intros. There you go. Uh so they were like, Andrew, you're cheap. We can keep you for like uh five bucks in a ham sandwich. Uh and so next from there's with cheese.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

Don't cut yourself short. Come on now. Whipp cheese. Whipped cheese. Whip cheese. Swiss, too.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Yeah. The good cheese. Um then we have Luke, right? That's me. Luke's not gonna be as expensive as Liz. No. But he's got uh he's they were like, his hair budget's gonna be a bit much. He's got sick flow. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

So um recognizing the six the sick flow is uh listen, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

To keep the sick flow up, we gotta we're gonna have to spend a little money on him. That's true. But just by nature, here's the thing. Liz is too good. All right, she's too good. She's too good for us. She's a woman. She's got natural built-in sick flow. Um hair budget off the wazoo, wardrobe budget, craze. She actually filled up. Vocal budget? Yeah, that huh?

SPEAKER_03 4:56

Vocal budget. Vocal budget. She sings.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Oh, yeah. Warm-up is crazy. Yeah. Mad tea in the green room. Like, once this podcast starts making some money, she's gonna be out of here. So, yeah, nah, we had to cut that.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

It's too much budget. All right, before the female audience leaves this podcast. Hi, Mom. Good job. Thank you, mom, for listening.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Uh, Liz is just, she got the sniffles. She'll be fine. She'll be fine.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

We did not, we did not actually cut her.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Yeah, I just thought of this whole bit while I was driving over here. So uh That's awesome. Yeah. So uh, yeah, no, Liz is good. Love you, Liz. Please, please come back.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

Please don't take this the wrong way. We like having you here.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

All right. So uh today it's just me and Luke. It's the boys. Boys. Um, Luke, I feel like I've seen you a lot today. You have? I've seen you a lot over the past 24 hours. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

Um Well, I saw you on Saturday, didn't I?

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Did I see you Saturday?

SPEAKER_03 5:51

I don't know. My days are running together. Probably.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

I probably saw y'all. Oh, yeah, because we uh watched the UFC fights.

SPEAKER_03 5:56

Oh, that's right. And we played pickleball.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

And we played pickleball. So I've seen you a lot over the past 48 hours.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

And I saw you on Friday.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

I think I may have seen you. I'll have to go back every day since maybe Thursday.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

I'm gonna be real like I'll give people a chance. Like, I'll give you a chance to talk because I haven't given you that yet. But um, you know, I've been talking to you a lot, but the people don't know what we've been talking about. And honestly, we can't say a lot of what we've been talking about because um classified. Yeah, it's just it's it's personal, it's not really a good idea. So I wouldn't just bring that to the pod and like leave you all in suspense like that. So so for the things that we're not gonna talk about, um, aside from those, what can you tell the people about how you're doing, Luke?

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

I had all that intro for an I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

Yeah, I don't know. This this could play in really well to the do we care? It's like, Luke, how are you feeling? I don't care. No, I'm just kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Um, I'm I'm doing pretty good. Yeah. Um It's funny. I the last week was pretty um there were tough aspects of my last week. Um so about almost two weeks ago, I spent uh a few days fasting. Ooh, spiritual. It's not like it's not that deep. But um there was a bunch of stuff I was fasting about. Um and I got to a point where at the end of it, at the end of the fast, I was feeling pretty good, and the next day, just like immediate spiritual warfare kicking me in the face. It was awesome. It was great. So fun. Just I was waiting, wake up. Exactly. Um so I got pretty like uh overwhelmed last week and just like started like internally complaining a lot about a lot of things, you know? And um my mom, there's an app that my parents and I use to communicate. It's called Marco Polo. You just send voice or video messages back and forth. Right. You can watch it whenever. So my mom sent me one because I was telling her about what I was doing on uh so this was Saturday, Saturday morning. And I was like, yeah, I got I'm about to go get coffee with my boys, and then or no, it was right after that. So I was like, I went and got coffee with my boys, we went and got lunch after that. I'm at home getting stuff for pickleball. After pickleball, I got a birthday dinner for one of my other boys and a bunch of my friends, and then after that, me and more of the boys, I don't know if you can tell, the theme of this show so far is the boys.

SPEAKER_08 8:41

Oh, oh, oh.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Um then after that, me and the boys are going to watch the UFC fights where unfortunately Max Holloway got laid on the whole time and lost. The whole time. I'm not a Charles Oliveira fan anymore. And then the Sharks lost in overtime because they were playing the refs. So that was awesome. I had a really terrible sports day on Saturday.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Anyways, it wasn't awkward.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

So yeah, it was a ending. I was not happy. I was pretty upsetti spaghetti.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

I've never left the beat up that fast. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Yeah. As soon as soon as the fight was over, we got up and left. We didn't watch the the belt ceremony or anything.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

And it was us and like 20 other American men. We were like, man, screw this, man.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

So I before, you know, I send I sent my mom this update. This is what I'm doing today. My mom sends me a reply and she's like, Man, you live a really good life. And I literally I just paused it and I just like you ever you ever watched The Office?

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Uh I have, but not the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Okay, you know the the the little thing that Jim does where he like turns and looks at the camera. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So I do that, but as if instead of a camera, it's God, right?

SPEAKER_08 9:53

Oh, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

So I pause the video when my mom says that, and I like look up like I'm looking at God, like he's standing in front of me, and I just went, I'm sorry for complaining a lot. She's totally right. I do have a good life, you know? Yeah. And it was like a good thing that like brought me back down to earth, you know, from like getting all swirled out and whatnot. But all that to say, like last week was cool. I got to hang out with a bunch of my friends and you know, do the whole thing. So like overall, I'm I'm good. I am good. Got to have a I was on the phone with uh a friend of mine that um I was in Y Wim with. We hadn't talked in a long time. So we got to catch up for a bit and that was awesome. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

I had a similar week, actually. Um, other than learning that people apparently don't think I do anything. Like they think I just roll around like Jiminy Cricket and just kind of like exist. Same. Every time I go to the coffee shop, people are like, so you're off today? I'm like, no. No, I uh I work from home.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Yeah, like, oh, I feel like you're never working.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

I'm like, all right, great. I'm glad I'm glad people think I have a life.

SPEAKER_08 11:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Um, but no, literally, like, especially the weekend, like it was a lot of time. Guys, it's warm again. So yeah, dude. Here in Williamsburg, when it's warm, we all play pickleball. Yeah. And so uh we uh we started playing pickleball, uh, got to see my friends. It really was. I I got home and was like, you know what? Thank you, Lord. This was this is really good. And I have a tendency as well to get like into my feelings and be like, oh no, things aren't perfect.

SPEAKER_06 11:30

Oh boo-hoo. The fun is over. Yeah, exactly. Like a dog when fetch ends. Oh, why'd you stop throwing the book back to the bed?

SPEAKER_04 11:41

Oh back to this ray of sunshine I have to sleep in in my climate-controlled house.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

That is how it is, too. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

And sometimes my owners give me pizza.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Like for free.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

Yeah, exactly. They clean up my poop.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

So, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

I got that dog in me. That's the dog that I have in me.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

No, that's uh, and so that is that's how uh it felt going home.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

I was like, you know what, man, uh I live a pretty good life. Thank you, God. That was great. Yeah, that's good. All right.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Um we should probably start the podcast. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

I spent 13 waffling on just absolute bits. I think I'm conan. Anyway. Um, all right.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

So I saw something. I was listening to what was I listening to? I was listening to the Joe Budden podcast, as I do. And um they were talking about this lady, uh, this black lady, uh, who has these 13-year-old girls, and um they apparently had a hairstyle that was like that made them look childish. Okay. Um if you don't have black girl hair, you know that like they kind of upgrade like the things that we put in our hair to keep it controlled. So like you start off with these little like flowery barrett and stuff like that, then you move to beads, and then you do all other kind of hairstyles. Um, and so apparently these girls had berrts in at like 13, 12. And the mom was essentially saying that I don't do things the way you other parents do things because I don't want them to be corrupted. It's a Christian woman. I don't want them to be corrupted by the world. And so the podcast was criticizing them because they felt like this mom was being, you know, uh stuck up or you know, yeah uh and so And she what what did she mean by that?

SPEAKER_03 13:40

Like the beauty stand like corrupted by the beauty standards?

SPEAKER_01 13:44

I don't want to put extensions in my girl's hair at 13. I don't want to let them do all these like weird styles that are making girls look older and then potentially act out. Yeah. Um and I'm gonna keep them as kids for as long as I can keep them as kids. And so um they felt like she was being uh stuck up. And I'm you know, I'm not really here to comment on that. I what it made me what did make me disappointed is it the one thing that happens when pe non-Christians comment on Christians is that they don't know how we are.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

We get that way, like we get we are the kind of people that like we see the world and we're like we're parenting completely.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

We're shutting this whole thing down.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Homeschooling is the bit now, and that's just coming from a homeschooler because people look at the schools and are like the kids are corrupt.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

They're not even getting a flip phone.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Yeah, no, the teachers are ha you're staying at home. So, nope, again, I was homeschooled. No, I was not to the any to the homeschoolers, no, no offense. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 14:45

I'm public public school, no college.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Public school, homeschooling, and college. I think all the schools.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

Um he's an educated man.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

So I wanted to ask you, it made me think of a topic that's or it made me think of a question that's similar but off topic.

SPEAKER_08 15:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

What are some decisions that you are making now based on the world you live in today, the issues that you see in this world today that make you want to parent your kids differently? Yeah. Like what decisions are you making that are like, you know what, when I have kids, and we're both in our late 20s, that's probably not a million miles away. Like when I have kids, I want to instill this in them. Yeah. Um give me your top like three answers. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

I think so disclaimer, I I knew this question was coming up before we started recording, because I I have to think about these things sometimes. Um but when you when you asked me uh before we we hit record, um the first thing that came to my mind was kindness, you know. Um and obviously I'm a man, I would love to have sons, but if I have daughters as well, kindness, you know. I think that's just like a staple across the board that um I don't think society breeds kindness very well anymore. Okay, you know. Yeah. And because I th yeah, we won't get into the weeds of that. But um yeah, I think just being kind and and I like the all the branches off of kindness, you know, like like gentleness and um yeah, and being calm and you know, all those sorts of things.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

I like that. You're right. I think the world the world is definitely not gonna teach that to your sons. They're gonna try and teach them how to be an animal. And I think there's you know, there's resilience, exactly, but then there's uh a certain selfless level of like Christ-like. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Yeah. Um so and that that tees me up really well for my second one, uh strength. Um I I there's um this old I I don't know if I can call it an old adage, but I think Jordan Peterson talked about it. Uh you know, believe what you want about Jordan Peterson. I'm not like the biggest Jordan Peterson guy. Um but I remember he said something about like somebody asked him like, oh well, should you should a man be like violent or strong or something like that? I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 17:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

And and I'm totally paraphrasing, but he said, No, you should you should be a monster. Yes. And you should but but you should be able to control it, you know. Um I had seen this video as well, and it's funny that you asked this question because I was thinking about this yesterday. Oh, or maybe the day before.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

Um I saw this video of this guy, and it's a little like a little too like macho rah-rah for me, like but I but the the idea is there going back to what I just said about having that dog in you, right? Right. Um this guy's explaining in this video about how um every young man, so like a like a teenage boy, gets to a point in their life where there's there's two dogs inside of him, right? There's there's the the cool, like gentle, controlled dog, and then there's the dog that wants to bite. And the dog that like the like the whole wolf thing, you know, which is like way, way too, like, way too out there for me. I think like for the most part, like that's pretty cringe. But um, but I like what he said. He's like, as a as a father, you have to be able to teach your sons how to control that and how to be be an honorable man with your strength. And I was thinking about this, um, because I remember I was thinking about this specifically. I remember when I was a teenager, um so like it was for me, it was like 13 to about 17, where like I just I was just aggressive, you know? Like I always wanted to fight my brothers, always wanted and not like fist fight, right? But like wrestle and like be aggressive and like that whole thing. And I remember I remember being a kid uh or like a teenager and it spilled over. I can't remember if it was I can't remember who it was. I think it maybe it was my sister or something. But that that uh that aggression and that wanting to fight, you know, because I didn't I didn't know how to handle that. Yeah, it spilled over and I think I like hurt my sister like roughhousing or something like that. And um and my mom ended up signing me up for uh what was it? Uh martial art. Um the Korean one, Taekwondo. Okay. And uh and it was uh it was this thing where it was like I needed an outlet for that, but also like martial arts like teaches you like the that discipline of it, right? It's like you the whole and again it like gets kind of the that philosophy of like um protecting the weak and being strong, you know, but also being gentle and kind and all those things. Um the the only thing this is funny is I was the biggest and oldest kid there. Every the everybody else was like fifth grade, and I'm like I'm like um what is high school? I'm like in ninth or tenth grade. Yeah, and I'm with all these like little kids, and I'm like, I can't beat any of you up. I'm gonna get in so much trouble if I beat any of you guys up. Anyways, um so yeah, strength is the second one, and then man, I don't I didn't get really past strength, honestly. Um I guess the third one would just be like this is like the super Christian answer to just like loving Jesus, and not because I'm your dad and I told you to, and because I'm taking you to church, but for me it's like how and I should I I think about this so much now. Yeah, and I I'm single, like I don't I don't have kids, all that, but I think about this now and I'm like how how can I teach my kids to love Jesus on their own? Yeah, it's like how how can I from the get-go make like help them to have their own relationship and following Jesus and the spiritual disciplines and the practices um and and the the virtues and and all the goodness that comes with abiding in the divine life. There you go. There's a good good religious little quip for you. Right. Yeah, you know what I mean. So yeah, that that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

That's good. That's good. I think um I think mine, one it'll it'll come with the tech aspect, right? The phones. Oh, yeah, sure. My my church has been talking about relationships, and so right now we've been in the um relationships between parents and kids. And so the first week of that was kids toward their parents, but the second week was parents toward children. And so I got to listen to a bunch of the parents in my group um just talk about like their their. And talk about the things that they're thinking. And it was it was good because I think it's very easy to look past the humanity of your parents and and have that mixed, especially when you're young. But listening to these people that you just met as people talk about what it's like being a parent shows you just the confusion that it is taking a child in a world and being like, all right, well, even if I have a book, it's not about you. So um, and so uh one of the things that a lot of them were like uh were saying was like no phones until they're like 16.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

And I kind of like that. It's partially because I do think there's a value in understanding technology. Yeah. So I don't need you to be Amish in a world run on AI. Like you should probably know something about a computer. But uh no offense to the well, wait, you're not listening. Um offense to the Amish.

SPEAKER_05 22:56

Yeah, I think uh I think I think Why are you listening to this?

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Jedi I was about to say, Jedi.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Why are you hiding under your comfort? Your comfort is listening to the Eternal Creatures podcast. And thank you.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Yeah, um we need the views, we won't tell your parents.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Um But yeah, I will I I I like that idea because I don't believe I can stop people from being addicted to technology.

SPEAKER_08 23:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

But I would like to instill in them a world outside of it. Yeah. And encourage them to focus on the world outside of it so that when they do get it, once they do get to that place of like, oh my gosh, I can do everything with this thing, and they start getting overwhelmed, as many of us have done, yeah, they remember, oh yeah, I did used to like play outside. I did use to like do a sport or something like that. Which kind of leads me to my second one, which is I want to instill a love of physical activity. Oh, for sure. And so, you know, work doing things with my kids outside and getting them active, because you know, a lot of them are gonna a lot of the world is sit-down jobs, sedentary jobs, unhealthy foods. All right, let's make health fun. Like, let's not like I don't need you to fall in love with the gym. I need you to just want to use your body and like enjoy the process of like training your body, even if it's for something like you know, some kid might be sporty, some are just gonna enjoy hiking. I don't care, I want to do it all. Yeah, so that's the second one I would say. And then the third one, you know what? I would like to teach, if it's like I mean, if it's my boys, I guess I'd call it chivalry, but selflessness, I do think is important. For sure, right? Learning how to serve on the daily, you know, encouraging kind actions. Like if there's a cup on the floor, even if it's not their cup, yeah. Like if you go to a coffee shop and there's a piece of trash on the floor, like pick up the piece of trash, grab a napkin, pick up the trash, and throw it away.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Yeah, leave a place better than you found it.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Yeah, just be a helpful citizen.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Yeah, and for the case, put your shopping cart away.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Right, right. And if there's a random shopping cart, it doesn't have to be yours, right? I I like this idea, and you know, you hear it in the chivalry conversation, and of course I want my boys to be chivalrous, but I think in general, we don't talk about just being a good person and just being a kind citizen for no reason. And so just kind of being more, and I it would it would take me doing this as well, and so, but being more vigilant and just saying, okay, let's do kind things, yeah, kind of like you were saying with the kindness, just for the sake. Yeah. And so, yeah, those are the kind of those are the three things I would say.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

Yeah. Being yeah, being kind because it's right. Right. It's good for you to do.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Yeah, not because anyone can see you or because anyone's gonna thank you or or even asked you to do it, wants you to do it. Like, just do it. Just be helpful.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

Yeah, absolutely. Totally like that.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

So, yeah. That was a good intro. Thank you. Thank you. I try. Um, all right. We want to get to the get to the article. Yeah, the meat and potatoes. It's the article. The article. So uh our guy, John Keith, because we know him. Um you know him? No. Oh, not at all. I just I just like him. He's a cool guy. Uh, he's a music artist, he's a rapper. So I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's the guy that I brought up as like Rapzilla's artist of the year. Like um, John Keith makes really, really good music. Released an album last year, I think, called Grow Wings. Um, really cool, but he also has a Substack, which I'm starting to learn is like, I don't know if it's Christian Reddit. I don't know what to Christian Reddit is crazy. What to describe it as. But apparently all the Christian artistry people go on Substack and just write. Yeah. And just give thoughts. And if you are a thinking artistic weirdo like we are here on the Eternal Creatures podcast, you love it.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

That's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

That's why Luke has one, Liz has one, we're I'm trying to have one. Like we're doing our thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

But yeah, so John Keith released an article that is called, and you know, Evangelicals, I would like you to sit down for this one. Sit down and brace for impact. Please, please sit down. Uh, if your grandma's listening, come on. Like, just put your headphones on. Yeah. The article is actually go and read the title if you forgot about it.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Uh, Christianity is not a relationship. It's a religion.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Oh my god. Oh no. We're going to hell. Someone's spelling glass window just fell off.

SPEAKER_05 27:51

Somebody spilled the Welch's grave joke. Something crackers are on the floor Someone's coming on the team.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

So much of the mess from the Charge is a lament.

SPEAKER_05 28:31

It's definitely clickbait for sure. Yeah, it's really, it's really good. So let's stay in the penis.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Oh my god, I was kidding on the internet.

SPEAKER_04 28:50

Oh that was a Muslim.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

No, it was a really interesting article.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

So uh Luke, I sent it to Luke and immediately was like, wow. Yeah. So I wanna I want you to open us up with the your just thoughts on the for sure. Um and a little bit about what it's what it's referencing.

SPEAKER_03 29:06

Yeah, absolutely. So this article or on Substack it's called an article. I don't know whether to call it a blog or an essay or whatever. It's something, yeah. It's writing. Yeah, it's words. I learned how to read those at some point in my life. Um so this is uh we'll call it an essay. Um it's an essay about how um this idea that Christianity is is a relationship, not a religion, has um almost like perverted the idea that is religion and what religion is, right? What what real religion is. Um and basically he he just ends up breaking down um like where kind of where that idea comes from, but also why um it's not fully accurate, you know, because we could and he acknowledges this. He's like, we we do have a relationship with God, you know, like that is important, but we can't say um like we can't that that it that isn't all it is, you know, there's so much more to it than just a relationship, you know what I mean? So yeah, he kind of breaks down the the whole idea um of like why religion is good and why it's not it's not evil, as a lot of um non-dean-Baptist evangelical churches kind of explain that it like how they how they say that it is, right? Um and just just so we're all clear, I go to an evangelical church. Andrew goes to an evangelical church. Yep. Like we we are evangelical Christians, you know what I mean? Um but this is when you sent this to me, I was really excited because this is something that I've been saying for a long time that religion isn't bad. And I get people go like gasp and like clutch their pearls when I say that. It's like I think we were joking off of that.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

Like that's that's what we were playing off of. Yeah, what what is the religious aspect, right?

SPEAKER_03 31:23

Yeah. So um I'll read this. This is from James chapter one. It's it's one, twenty-six and twenty-seven. This is the ESV. Um if anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the father is this to visit orphans and widows in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained from the world. And I think the thing that like really got me from that was oh, religion isn't bad. So so why is it painted as being bad, right? And for me it gets into this idea that words matter and the definitions of words matter, right? And you can't, no matter how you feel about this, you can't change the definition of a word, right? So I think what people mean is legalism.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

100% that what they mean is legalism is wrong, and I I totally agree with that, fully agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

And he agrees with that, by the way. Like John Keith makes a point to say legalism is bad. You should push back against legalism.

SPEAKER_03 32:43

Yeah, absolutely. Um and so he he he ends up going into excuse me, he ends up going into like why religion is good. Right. Um I can't think of it. I've only read it once. Let me see if I can find it off the top of my head. But what what are your while I find this, what are you what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 33:03

I think I think something he was uh battling. I was listening to uh uh Unlocking the Bible, which is a podcast by David Pawson. Um if you're interested, it's P-A-W-S-O-N. Um but he he was saying we have to remember, and he's going I'm going through uh Genesis with him and uh not with the guy, but through the podcast. And and and uh he was saying we have to balance the fact that we are made in God's image, so he is like us, but he is also holy and set apart, so he is unlike us in every way as well. And well, not in every way, but he is also very different from us. And so I think sometimes the religious aspect, especially religious legalism, can focus so hard on his differences that we just don't we make him a completely different being than we think he is. We paint him as this just overlord that you know, and he the way David put it is we kind of shrink into ourselves. Like we don't even we don't come to him with confidence as he asks us to or see like him in us, like and the way that we're made in his likeness. And so, but at the same time, if we solely focus on that he is like us and that he wants to dwell with us, um then we can make him, and I think this is what uh John said everyone paints a re a healthy relationship differently. And so what one person sees as a healthy relationship, you know, is uh is uh not someone else's. So not only is there friction there, but it's also like it it it it it's also we try and almost make him human. Yeah, like and he was human with us and he does dwell in us, but I think the there's a really important point, and I'll I'll you know, I I I'll kind of try and bring that out a little toward the end, but I I think the whole conversation we had on sober-mindedness is really important for the religious aspect. Yeah, because and John makes this very clear in the article, he does dwell with us. Okay, he is near us, he wants a relationship with us. There's nothing wrong with the relationship portion. So the question then becomes, what is the religion portion for?

SPEAKER_07 35:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

And when you read the scripture there and you're talking about the religion should be in an effort to feed the, you know, feed the widow and the orphan and care for them. The religion aspect is training. Yeah, it's training our hearts and honestly, like opening our hearts up to God and to what he wants so that we can have the heart to do those things. Because with sin, we don't naturally have that heart all the time. Uh sometimes we do, but it's very wishy-washy, it's very selfish. And so I think John just kind of wanted to merge the concept of like, look, he is a holy God that we that is we are not used to interacting with anything like him. Yeah. And so we have to merge that with the fact that he is like us and he wants to dwell with us and he knows what it's like to be with us. That human aspect of Jesus and the holy aspect of God have to merge in order for us to be you know who Christ really wants us to be.

SPEAKER_03 36:25

Yeah, exactly. And that's that's what that's like one of the reasons why Jesus died on the cross. To go back to that super spiritual quip that I just had. Like he he died so that we can participate in his divine nature, you know. What does that mean? That means as Christ is fully God and fully man, one God, that we and we can be holy, you know, we can deny our flesh, we can live Christ-like, and we can do it here and now, you know. Um that doesn't mean we get it right every time. I mean, you know, we're still gonna fall into sin and everything like that. That's that's why we have mercy. Um so yeah, that that's really solid. And going back to that thing that you said about like the relationship thing, um, I don't want to read this whole thing, but well, let's see how far we get into it. Um, it's like a paragraph and a half. So this is this is from the substack. Um so he says I think a lot of people would agree that any other relationship that costs you everything is a toxic one. Of course we know this is not the case with Yahweh, because he is all good, fully holy. I like that, and overflowing with mercy and love. So any quote, self-serving aspect of God could only could only ever benefit those who interact with him. Even so, he's the God who came not to be served, but to serve. However, the advertisement that life with Jesus is fully absent from religion presents a life that isn't going to cost you anything, aside from a little quiet time in the morning, church on Sundays and Tuesdays, if you're really uh he says, if you're really diligent. Um it doesn't help one truly count the cost before pursuing him. Um and then this is going back when when you said he makes it clear that legalism is like the not it. He says, to be abundantly clear in all caps, legalism absolutely needs to be pushed back on. We are not made holy by what we do for God. Paul meant what he said in his letters um in his letter to the church in Galatia. This is from Galatians 3, 5 through 7. This is the NLT. Does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law? Of course not. It's because you believe the message you heard about Christ in the same way Abraham believed God, and God counted it to him as righteousness because of his faith. The real children of Abraham then are those who put their faith in God, you know. Um so like on that topic of like the the the relationship kind of like um metaphor almost, I guess. Um like I like what he said. It's like a relationship that costs you everything in in our standards is toxic, you know. But with God that the with Jesus, that's what that's what's required of us, you know. And again, it's he goes on further, and you know, I won't get super deep into it, but he talks about like how we we have to participate with Christ, participate in in again, in the d divine nature, right? Um where it's like I and I think I've said this before on the podcast, but I and I grew up in my faith, I grew up in this culture where it's like, oh, you can just be a Christian, like you're saved, so you just are, and I'm like, no, I'm not. If I mean, in a sense, yes, I am, I'm saved, right? I'm you know, being sanctified, but uh the same way in a relationship, if I'm married to somebody and I do nothing loving to them, nothing kind to them, like anything like that, my relationship sucks. Yeah, right, you know, like I'm probably like gonna have like hair in my food, you know. Somebody's gonna spit in my drink. Yeah, yeah, you know, and it's like not that God would do that, you know what I mean. But it's um I just totally brain fretted so hard. Yeah, people who know me know that.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Anyways, um the article reminded me of this, right? Um I've probably said this on the podcast. It's one of my favorite definitions of love from a pastor that I um I used to have in Richmond when I lived there. Um and he just made love this very simple it's affection plus devotion.

SPEAKER_03 41:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

And so the affection makes you want to stay devoted to the person. And so and the devotion kicks in so that you are consistent, as consistent as you can be when the affection is not enough.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

But what's happen what's great about that is that life it has peaks and valleys, like eventually the affection comes back if both parties stay devoted enough.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Um, and so what God is ultimate love. Like he is love, he has mastered that. Yeah, we have to practice that. And so for me, the relationship aspect is learning to be in love with God.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

The affection part, learning to love who he is, learning to love existing with him, yeah, and learning to love the world he has placed us in and his mission for the world and for us in the world. Totally. And then the religion part is the devotion that keeps us in when we aren't feeling it. Because I do think feeling is a part of this whole experience with God. God doesn't give God gives us feelings for a reason. Exactly. Um, you actually kind of talk about that in a writing you did. And my last put that in your peace pipe and smoke it. It's a substack sub stack. Deaconswell. For Deaconswell? Yep. Deaconswell. Deaconswell. Um, feeling is a part of this, but we're not always gonna feel it in the same way like we talked about the guys who love their wives. They don't love their wife every freaking day, or at least they don't like her every day, but when they aren't, their ultimate love and the devotion that comes with that is what keeps them being like, all right, but we keep this marriage going. Yeah, exactly. Because she's worth it. Yeah. And I think, and he talks about that in the article of like there was a time in my life where something happened. I thought God should step in, and I was not loving him at all. But I had already put these practices into place, and I already believed in God enough, believed in not just believed him, his existence, but believed who he is in my life, what he says about himself. So I'm gonna keep these practices up, even if they're not as pretty as they once were. And eventually he got to that place of understanding.

SPEAKER_08 43:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

But I just love this article because I related to my life. Like I think the the relationship aspect, and look, we sway. Sometimes like the relationship aspect brings you to more devotion, right? He brought up practicing the way book by John Mark Comer. Yeah. As I started loving just life as a Christian, I was like, I was introduced to that book and was like, oh shoot, I'm not even like I am supposed to be a disciple.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

I didn't even know. Well, I love God to whatever degree I can. I was a very new Christian at the time, but so I want to do these things. And it's Tough. It's tough to build them up. But that's where grace comes in. God knows that it's tough. And so and he sent the helper. Yeah. I would suggest, I would highly suggest practicing the way because I think it breaks it down in such a beautiful way. Yeah. And uh breaks down these like these nine practices that you can really just dive deep into learning. Like we have to learn this stuff. Exactly. We spend a lot of time as Christians, especially if you grew up in this comparing ourselves to people who have been walking this out for years or who look better than they're doing because they can present well in church. Shut up, Todd White. Sometimes you gotta start from square one.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

And you gotta be okay with starting from square one. And guess what? God's gonna bless that you're starting from square one.

SPEAKER_03 44:46

Yeah, exactly. I um man, we're on the we're on the brain fart train. I was just about to go off. Um yeah, you said um kind of like on that that topic of participating, right? Um man, I don't know what I did. Brains brains farting. What was that last thing you just said?

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Um you gotta start from square one, God will bless you.

SPEAKER_03 45:10

The participating part with with uh comer.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

Um practicing the practicing the way? Yeah, that's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 45:18

Um so kind of bringing back to my last brain fart, the oh I can just be a Christian, right? It's like, well, in a sense, yeah, but you have to participate, you know, because there is an expectation, you know, like there is an expectation of holiness. He doesn't God like Jesus doesn't say God, Jesus. Um same same. He uh He doesn't say be perfect and be holy and not expect that of us, right? Um I think there's the caveat of the understanding that we are sinners and we are gonna fall. Um but like you just said, that's where grace comes into play. Yeah, right. And I remember this uh years ago. Um I was on the phone with a friend and I was man, I was struggling. I was tweaking about all kinds of stuff going on. And my friend goes, You're in good company. And I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean I'm in good company? Like, I feel like I'm in shambles right now. I feel like the worst Christian of all time. Like, how could God love me? All these things. And my friend goes, You're in good company because you're in you're in the company of Paul. I'm like, what what do you mean? I mean, I am not in the company of Paul. That guy is a legend. And he goes, he goes, Well, well, Paul called himself the chief of sinners. And I went, Oh, I am in good company. That's cool, you know, and that for me that's like motivating, you know, it's like, okay. And it goes back to like Paul says, imitate me as I imitate Christ, you know. And what what does that mean? If if he's saying, if I'm if Paul is saying in his letters that are inspired by the Holy Spirit, to imitate him as he imitates Christ, that means I have to do something, you know, that there is a there is a level of doing and a level of being, you know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. And and I think Faith without works is dead. Yeah, exactly. Faith without works is dead, exactly. I think, and that and I think that that was what was so encouraging about this article to me was like again, I I grew up in the space of like you just have to be, and there's nothing you can do to earn God's grace, and and that that is true. There is nothing I can do. I like this. I I don't remember if I put it in a sub stack or if I've said it on here before, but I saw something and it said, the only thing that I contributed to my salvation was the sin that made it necessary. You know? And I was like, dang, let's go. I like that, you know. Um, but yeah, there there's like the the doing aspect is like I think it's so important because I think there's a lot of a lot of Christian circles, whether whether it's evangelical or high church orthodox and Catholic and Anglican, we can all end up going through the motions. We can all end up being stale and lukewarm, you know. There's n like there's not this like excuse me, there's not this like I keep burping, sorry. Shout out, shout out my water bottle for making me burp.

SPEAKER_07 48:34

Shout out the water Liz come back. Let's retire.

SPEAKER_05 48:44

There's not like this superiority thing, right?

SPEAKER_02 48:51

There's no watchful line. We keep on turning to the name up.

SPEAKER_05 49:01

Oh man, dude, I knew this was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 49:06

Oh man, I hope people are still listening to this.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

I think this was gonna I think this was good.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

But um, anyways, it's like like the the hierarchy of the like the churches. It's like let's not let's not get into that because that I think that fuels comparison so much, you know. Um but it's like it's like I and again I can just go in circles on this all the day, all day. I love Jesus. Jesus died for me. I have to there has to be a response from me, right? There has to be a level of commitment from me, you know. And I like what you said, it's the um you said like religion is the training, like religion is the participation of like growing and changing and becoming more Christ-like every single day. You know, we are we are new creations in Christ. That doesn't mean we're perfect, and that doesn't mean all of a sudden we're you know, these super apostles, as Paul put it. I don't know what he meant by that, but I like the idea.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

And I'm gonna be very honest, like I will I will give you a warning on practicing the way you will think I need to start picking up all of this now. Yeah. Not only won't you, you can't. You can't. And some and sometimes you won't know where to start. So I would start with just what do you want to know? Yeah. What do you want to know? Yeah. Do you want to know what God's saying to you? Like, do you feel like like for a long time, and even now I struggled to feel this way, but for a long time I didn't feel like I could hear from God.

SPEAKER_08 50:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

I didn't know it was possible. Start with the prayer practice.

SPEAKER_08 50:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

And just focus on that. And you might, and what happens is you start rip picking up other things. God starts revealing other aspects to you. Yeah. So you'll start with the prayer practice, you'll start learning how to pray, but things aren't always gonna go easy. You're like, why the heck am I not getting this? And eventually you might realize, oh, your mind is loud.

SPEAKER_03 51:13

Yeah. Oh, that's me.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

So, oh, okay, I've gone through the prayer practice. Now let me pick up the solitude part so that I can learn how to quiet my mind.

unknown 51:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

Because I want to hear you. I know what to say, but I can't hear you. And what's beautiful about it is now you're also addressing things in your life that you may not have even thought. When I start picking up that stuff, I'm now getting my emotions out.

unknown 51:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

Like the emotions that are just stuck in my in my heart, I'm getting them out because I'm now learning I can just say, I don't have to like have these beautiful poetic prayers. I don't even know how we started praying like that. Yeah. The beautiful poetic prayers that are at church. I don't have to have that. I can literally just talk to him. Yeah. And then and then, like with the solitude part, oh my gosh, I can breathe. I've been listening to podcasts for 24 hours straight. I didn't even know. I work online, I'm listening to podcasts, I'm on YouTube after work. Like, my mind is so full of opinions and just and just noise. If I go outside and sit in a tree, I'm like, holy crap, I can speed. It's so nice. Like, y'all, like, God is so lovely in how he engages with us that us be having a devotion to him feeds us. Yeah. Like it makes life better for us. Yeah. I want to kind of go into uh go straight to the other articles because I think Can I touch on the Solitude thing real quick?

SPEAKER_03 52:53

Please. Yeah. Yeah. So last night at our young adults group, um, we're going through this book, Reese Howell's Intercessor. Um, it's been a good time. Um, but last night, um, I don't remember what chapter we were in or kind of the story behind it, but but solitude came up. And I it was I was thinking about this article, and this is before I knew we were talking about it today. Yeah. Um and and I remember he made the point because I I haven't read John Marcomer's book, um, but I remember he listed out what was it, the nine um practices or whatever. Yeah. Um, and I remember the the only one that stuck with me was Solitude. And when Solitude came up in group last night, I I I asked, you know, because our our pastor and his wife lead the group, and I'm kind of an adjacent leader, you know, co-leader. Yeah. And um, and I and I just asked. I was like, I'm like, hey, I I have a hard time with that. Like it what is and I asked, I was like, what is the difference between solitude and isolation? Because if I spend a day by myself at the house, right, I'm miserable. I'm depressed and anxious and all that. That's why I'm like never at my house. Not because I have like a bad home life or anything, it's just I love being with my friends so much. It is my favorite thing, and it has been since I was a kid. You can ask my parents. Anytime my parents were like, hey, we're going out, the first thing out of my mouth every time was who's coming? Because I just wanted to hang out with people. I just love people, yeah. You know, and um not gonna lie, I don't really remember what like the response was that was given to me. But like there's there's that's something that like what you said, it's like pick something and start there. Pick pick what interests you, yeah. And solitude is so interesting to me. And I was I was just listening uh like the night before I was watching this video about this guy talk about the desert fathers from what is that, the the uh third and fourth century, I think. Um, where basically what what had happened was Rome, like the the church in Rome had gotten to this point where it was basically just a um social gathering where people were networking, like doing all these things, right? And so much um so much of uh of the world, right, like the things of the world were infiltrating the church. And basically the these um um these believers got to this point where they're like, we we gotta get out of here. So they they bail and they head out into the desert, um, and they become monastic, right? They become monks, and basically they they seek solitude, not isolation, but solitude um to basically rediscover God and to realign with God. And um our friend Logan actually, I was gonna bring it up. Logan beat me to it, and he's because I was like, I want to talk about the desert fathers, and then Logan beat me to it, and he starts telling this story that I'm telling right now.

SPEAKER_08 56:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:09

And um, and he said that I can't remember the the the guy's name, the the Desert Father, the monk, whatever his name was, Saint something. Um forgive me. But um, he gets to this point where I can't remember if it's seven months or seven years of solitude, and and an angel shows up to him and he's like, Hey, uh, you've accomplished your mission. If you keep being in solitude, it is not gonna be good for you. So go gather all the monks and have like this uh monastery where it's like, hey, you're gonna do you're gonna do manual labor, you're gonna do this much worship and this much prayer and this much liturgy and like all these things, right? So it was like in a really roundabout way, like I got to this point where I was like, uh how do I not isolate but find solitude? Because I have that same problem where my mind just doesn't shut up. Like it is, and that's why I pacify my mind with technology and social media and so many of us do. You know, absolutely because I just can't sit with myself because it's never quiet, you know. Um, so that that is something that is super interesting to me, and uh something I I hope that the Lord will give me grace to be good at.

SPEAKER_01 57:22

Guys, there are so many conversations to be had. I mean, uh and we're out of time, so uh like but there's a legalism aspect to this. Like do the same churches that we criticize for being like really loose with this stuff also have like their own version of legalism. Yeah. Like with so it's like so weird, and so there's the legalism conversation. I can't wait till Liz comes back because she's start she's going through uh practicing uh the practice of the presence of God by Brother Lawrence, um, and sh and a devotional based off of it that was created. Like, I let me tell you something. I think because of our understanding of no, of the word no, I want to close with this, right? Because David Paulson um he talked about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and he said, change the word knowledge to like experience or something, or to uh yeah, to the experience of good and evil. Yeah, because the word no in the Bible does not simply mean head knowledge, yeah, which we take it as. It means to know, like when the Bible says to know your wife, it means to have sex with her. Yeah. When it means to know God, it means to live to dwell with him. Um and so when you start taking that journey of knowing, it makes this whole thing different. Yeah, yeah. Way different. It makes it so much cooler.

SPEAKER_03 59:02

You mean I get to uh to participate in the divine.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

Yeah, when we take a little bit of that energy and time that we put into reading and reading and reading and just building up head knowledge of a life with God. You're gonna be dragging your noggin on the floor. And we place it into the actions of putting our body, the one that we've been given into it, and align the two.

SPEAKER_05 59:27

Oh, dude, yeah, we don't have time for this.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

It's a whole different thing. I want to get into Gnosticism, so it's a whole different life, yo. So listen, if you've never if again, start with a question. Yeah. God wants us to know him. Take start with a question. Do not start with a practice, start with a question. I want to know more about you, God. I want to know you more, God. Here's what I have. Yeah. And just investigate and see where it takes you. And the Holy Spirit, he's got you. Yeah. He's gonna take you where you need to go.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:02

He's so kind to answer. That's the thing. He's not gonna leave you hanging. You know, he never will.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

So, and listen you're not alone. That's what church is for, and that's what the Eternal Creatures podcast is for. So, thank you guys for listening. As always, remember, eternity is for the beautiful, eternity is for the timeless, eternity is for those who know God.

unknown 1:00:26

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

And everyone's welcome to get to. That's right. See y'all later.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:30

Play the music, Keith.