What Have You Been Watching?

A Real Pain/Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

• Charlie, Robin & Mark • Season 1 • Episode 2

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As they talk about A Real Pain and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless mind, "real dorks" Robin and Charlie (their words!) reflect on memory, pain, and how we see ourselves in the films we watch. 

Charlie:

Hey Robin. Hey friend.

Robin:

Hey pal.

Charlie:

Guess what I'm drinking?

Robin:

I have no idea.

Charlie:

I'm drinking orange juice.

Robin:

You're drinking OJ?

Charlie:

Yeah, I think we should normalize adults having orange juice. I love orange juice, man. I just love it.

Robin:

I think so. There's nothing right. Do you know what? I haven't had an orange juice in a while. Do you know what really hits a spot is apple juice sometimes. That's I have that more rarely than I do orange juice. But every now and then I'm like an apple juice.

Charlie:

No, not for me.

Robin:

Well, that's fine. We'll have to agree to disagree, I guess.

Charlie:

Yeah, yeah. Well, that was just a way to start the podcast, honestly, because I'm just sitting here. I live right next to Daycare. You're making noise. We are ready to record our weekly or bi-weekly conversation. And we were told by our producer because we have a producer, you guys.

Robin:

It's it's happening.

Charlie:

That we need to cut to the chase. Yeah, yeah, it's happening. Everything is happening very fast. Um, and um he told us like you have to cut to the chase. You can't like people need to know what the shit's gonna be about. It needs to get interesting right away. Money, money, money, go, go, go.

Robin:

You know, you gotta, yeah. It's it's uh make money while the sun is up. What the fuck am I talking about? All right, yeah.

Charlie:

Yeah. Uh as you can tell, we are not, you know, showrunners, we are not show hosts. We are just a couple pals talking about what we have been watching because we love film and we love TV, but especially film.

Robin:

And we were a couple of dorks. We're a couple of dorks, and this is how we relate to life and each other and other people is through movies and TV shows. It's deeply sad, but I wouldn't have it any other way, Patty.

Charlie:

Me neither pal. I miss you, bud.

Robin:

I miss you. Um this is a bit of a different. So, our first episode we talked about the limited series Adolescence, and we have two movies here today.

Charlie:

Yeah, I wanted to talk about uh this film, A Real Pain, which was released in 2024, directed by Jesse Eisenberg, and a movie from 2004, so 20 years before that, called Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mine, directed by Michelle Gondry. But I did not tell Robin why I wanted to talk about these two movies.

Robin:

That's right. You told me that you noticed I get interest interesting parallels, similarities between these two movies.

Charlie:

It was pretty much this one big thing.

Robin:

It was one big thing? Okay.

Charlie:

Um yeah, I guess. But I told Robin that I saw these parallels, and now Robin is gonna tell me what he thinks those could be, because I didn't tell him what those were.

Robin:

No, so it was interesting, kind of like I guess. I mean, I I had seen Eternal Sunshine. I've seen that movie multiple times, you know, ever since it came out. It's it's among my favorite movies. Real Pain, obviously a more recent movie, but a movie that I I very I thought was very good. I really enjoyed it. But it did not uh it was never on my mind for Eternal Sunshine when I saw Real Pain at all. So it was interesting kind of getting like this teaser of what you thought were similarities between them. Yeah. So it was cool watching that with that feeling of kind of going in with like a bit of kind of an investigative feeling.

Charlie:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Robin:

Um, I'm like, hmm, with my little eye with my notepad, kind of like putting down notes.

Charlie:

So Eternal Sunshine of the Spot That's Mine from 2004 by Michelle Gondry is a movie starred by Kate Williamslet and Jim Carrey. Jim plays Joel, Kate Williamslet plays Clementine, and basically they're going through uh a breakup, and the character played by Jim Carrey goes through a procedure done to his brain to erase the memories from his loved one Clementine, and we see those memories getting uh wiped out. Uh so we we follow that journey, and A Real Pang by Jesse Eisenberg follows Benji and David. Benji is played by Kieran Kalkin and David by Jesse Eisenberg. They're two cousins who go on a trip to do a tour of the sites and places of Jewish heritage affected by World War II in Poland.

Robin:

Yes. Yeah. I would say the thing that really jumped out to me uh in terms of a similarity was really the characterizations of David in A Real Pain and Joel in Eternal Sunshine and Clementine from Eternal Sunshine and Benji from A Real Pain. I found David and Joel to be similar in a sense of how they are in their environments, how they are with people. They're both pretty introverted, contained characters, meaning they they keep their emotions and feelings kind of contained. I would say that they're shy, it's not they both have a difficulty being around other people, maybe connecting with other people, a habit of overthinking, being rather hesitant. Those are big things I noticed between those two characters. And then between Clementine and Benji, I mean I think there really is a lot here between those two. They both come on very strong to people who they're interested in, or maybe just to people in general. Uh they're very open. They kind of they have a way of uh pulling people in, bringing something out of people. They don't have a problem being confrontational. They're impulsive. They kind of have a demanding, they demand that people are kind of real with them and tell them exactly how they feel. And they kind of get frustrated if people aren't at their level of openness and a willingness to just let it all out and kind of like this maybe emotional vomit or something like that. Like they don't have a patience when it comes to that. So I would say those were honestly, in terms of like similarities I noticed right away. I think it was a lot in the uh characterizations. And then there's something about these movies being about grief and loss and sort of a tour of pain in a way. More literal, I guess, in a real pain, where the characters do set out on this uh Jewish heritage tour of Poland where they visit these sites um that were really affected by World War II. And yeah.

Charlie:

Um, so Robin, um that is pretty much exactly uh what I saw.

Robin:

Oh yeah.

Charlie:

Yeah, but I would go further, I think, in terms of the experience as a uh uh a viewer because I remember so when I was watching Real Pain, I'm now in my 30s, you know, uh mid-30s, and I couldn't help but watch it and be like, Am I more like David or am I more like Benji? I think I'm more like Benji, but I have a little bit of David, and I was kind of going back and forth and doing that kind of uh, you know, uh that was playing in my head a little bit. And the reason why I thought of Eternal Sunshine is because that brought me back 20 years ago when I was 15 watching Eternal Sunshine, and I had a boyfriend at that time, and that was our movie, and we would say that I was Clementine and he was Joel. And at that time, when we were teenagers, we're still figuring ourselves out. I guess it was easier to pick which one I was, you know, even though I had I could already tell I have a little bit of Joel. Joel's Joel says he doesn't like parties at one point. I'm like, in that way, I'm more like Joel, you know, so I would do that kind of kind of play in my head. And I guess it just makes me think of our experience as viewers, and it almost turns us into children when we're in a movie theater, you know, especially if we're in a movie theater, you know, like the the lights are off, you have that big screen in front of us, and we're just taking it in and watching, you know, and we're kind of not being judged for watching this other life unfold in front of us. And no, it made me think of those TV shows uh growing up too. You know, so I started going even further back, and you know, I used to watch with my cousins and my sister. Uh, we used to watch Sailor Moon, and I was Serena, and she was Sailor Venus, and this other one was Sailor Telana, and each one had their separate colors, you know, one was blue, one was orange, one was pink. And how the experience of watching a movie mimics that this experience of it's an experience of seeing yourself.

Robin:

Yeah, oh, totally. I really think it makes us feel less alone. You were talking about eternal sunshine, and I mean that movie had a big impact on me whenever I saw it. I was in high school. Whenever I saw it, I have a vivid memory of, you know, I had I I'm from a small town, and we wouldn't get movies like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, kind of like independent, sort of like even though it did have Jim Carrey in it, it's definitely like an independent sort of vibe of a movie and a quirky movie, not for everybody at the time.

Charlie:

Yeah, yeah.

Robin:

And so my town didn't get anything really like those smaller movies. And I was on a trip with my parents out of province in Moncton, New Brunswick, and I was playing at the theater there, and I kind of like demanded that we we were spending the night among them, like, can we go see this movie? And then my parents were nice enough to indulge their nerdy son to go watch this movie with them, and I really don't think they like they understood it. They kind of were kind of politely watched it with me. But yeah, there was stuff in that movie, um, even at that age, you know, of uh Joel's kind of hesitance to reach out and interact with life and what you said about him, how he feels at at parties, and just you know, I think one of the dialogue is just like uh never know what to say. Yeah, yeah. Or and also something in his voiceover diary, it's like, why do I I fall in love with any woman who gives me the time of day?

Charlie:

Yeah, yeah, and the tiniest bit of attention, yeah.

Robin:

Yeah, like that line, that's a vulnerable line. Yeah, and it's not easy to admit that in life, but I mean, I think that is a really uh for certain type not even just a guy, but uh for certain type of people, that is a very uh relatable feeling.

Charlie:

Yeah, I think.

Robin:

So these characters like that can really uh make you feel uh I mean it's it's wonderful to feel less alone in the world for sure. Yeah. I think that's like like an Arthur Miller quote that he said that the uh the writer said that that's the beautiful thing about the theater, that people come to the theater to feel less alone.

Charlie:

Exactly. Yeah, I mean when I watched Eternal Sunshine, I remember at that time I I went through an orange face, you know, speaking of orange shoes, but I would dress because she had an orange um sweater, and I'm like, you know what? I'm allowed to like color. Yeah, you know, it was supposed to weird thing like that. I was like being a teenager. I would dress head to toe, and I'm not kidding, in orange, and I would be proudly doing that. Of course, now not quite as much, but it's something I carried through my life, bringing color. But I think that's just a small example. I think film and screens really, I guess with a real pain, being in my 30s now, when I was watching it, uh, seeing myself in the characters was a little more complex. So I was totally towards like the uh Benji, the character played by Kieran Culkin. I was like, oh, I'm I'm that guy. But I wasn't more aware at first that I was doing this. But then Jesse Eisenberg came in with his character and he is anxious and he takes his medication and he plans out. Okay, no, I'm I'm kind of like that. So I think it's just funny how growing up we just you just become more complex, obvious, obviously, but it was fun to play that game. And and then I started reading about that. If you will indulge me.

Robin:

Yes, of course.

Charlie:

There's something called from a philosopher called Lacan, the mirror phase, which is basically the phase when kids are growing up where they start seeing themselves in the adults, so they see the adult person as an idealized version of themselves, and they start gaining being conscious of themselves. Oh, I also have a hand, they have a hand, I have a hand, I can grab this, and they they recognize themselves in the mirror as a person, right? And how that applies to to screens and and movie theaters, and yeah, as you're sitting in the movie theater, all your senses are deprived, the lights are off, the the sound of the movie is loud, so that's all you're hearing, and see that person, the big screen, that also kind of creates that mirroring, you know? So you see yourself in that character. And and then I started to get that's why we have to be careful, like allowing children to spend too much time with screens, because then they start watching, I don't know, like a beautiful woman in the screen and think that they should look like that, or they should sound like this, or they should does that make sense? Am I going completely off topic here?

Robin:

Oh, it's not off topic. We're in we're talking about you know, being able to see ourselves in what we're watching. But I mean, there can be a it can be very seductive in a way and very it can be very idealized in a certain way. It can and as much as it can be kind of honest and complex as these two movies are with their characters, it can go the opposite way where it can be too idealized, too simplistic of a way to be. Since you brought up Clementine a few times, uh this okay. Eternal Sunshine and the character Clementine is really interesting for the time that this came out because there's this term and a character archetype that I thought existed before this movie came out, called the Manic Pixie Dream Girl.

Charlie:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Robin:

And I thought that this had existed before the movie and that this movie was kind of like taking apart that concept, which I think it does, but it wasn't really a well-known thing at the time because this character of Clementine, I mean, she has let's just okay. So if you don't know, Manic Pixie Dream Girl was first coined by this film critic Nathan Rabin to describe oddly enough Kirsten Dunst, who is in Eternal Sunshine out of the spot of his mind. Right. Her character in this movie called Elizabeth Town. And basically, briefly, Manic Pixie Dream Girl is a character, they're vibrant, they're quirky, they're carefree, and basically they kind of exist to help the male protagonist overcome his struggles.

Charlie:

Interesting.

Robin:

Rather thin character that basically exist to help the protagonist, and that's kind of their function. Eternal Sunshine even says this literally, where you know, Clementine, she is outgoing, she is very different than Joel, and she does stress that Funky, she has an otherworldly quality about her, she does dye her hair constantly, but she says to Joel in the movie that men look at her and they see a concept. When in reality, her reality is that um to quote her, she is a fucked up girl looking for her own peace of mind. Don't assign me yours.

Charlie:

Yeah, yeah.

Robin:

And I thought that was a really good way of making her character much more complicated than a lot of others.

Charlie:

Uh what I find very interesting uh in the whole discussion is that the version of Clementine that we see the most in the movie is Joel's memories. It's how he perceives her, right? So it's very interesting that you bring that up. Yeah. It's like you're talking about like how the girl is there just to like help the male character overcome something. But a lot of what we see of Clementine is his version of her, right? And but the fact that we see that scene where she says she's a fucked up girl looking for her own peace of mind, the fact that he remembers that I think is telling of how he really saw her, right? He remembers that speech, he really values that memory, right?

Robin:

Yeah. And by the way, Kate Winslett and Jim Carrey are so good in this movie together. You know, Kate Winslett obviously like adds so much depth and impulsiveness, like you really don't feel like you know what she's gonna do next. And she's kind of like, it's well, it is just an interesting contrast that the filmmakers chose the casting, and they I'm assuming you know, they went after Jim Carrey for this part, and he could not be more straight jacketed.

Charlie:

Yeah. Um, because obviously he is so And at that time Jim Carrey was doing all these comedy movies like a lot.

Robin:

Yeah, he had this sort of dramatic pivot later in his career before this movie with like the Truman Show. But even then he has an he has a manic energy that he he's exerting, he's able to physicalize it. And he's so restrained in this movie, but it works so wonderfully because even that he doesn't get to be because he's obviously such a uh gifted physical comedian, but that he doesn't get to do this expression outward outwardly, yeah, because he's very like contained, which works for the character. But there's something you can feel like the energy in him and the discomfort of having of I'm reading into this, it's just my interpretation of him being so contained, but you can feel his energy wanting to get out. Like Joel does want to express himself, I think, as most people do, but it's just very difficult for him to do that. And I thought, yeah, that Jim Carrey did such a great job at not being Jim Carrey in a movie, I guess.

Charlie:

Yeah. And then Clementine, as we were talking about the pixie girl, she's kind of the Jim Carrey, and she's the character that helps bring out that side of him a little bit, you know, like let's go uh lie on the ice, let's go to the parade. Um, so she brings out that, I guess, that more expressive side of him. And then when I think about that and we bring it back to a real pain, it's kind of a similar relationship because uh it's also a journey they're going on, though a very different one. And you know, we see this push and pull a little bit from both sides, like they're pulling. So Benji Kieran Culkin's character is trying to get David to go up to the roof and smoke, and he he actually brings weed into in the country, which was he wasn't supposed to, and he's trying to you know get people to take pictures that might not be the most appropriate, and he goes really by his emotions while David tries to stick to the um he has the tour all planned out and he wants to stick by those steps, and he keeps getting pulled by Benji, and Benji is this guy who's he is outgoing, he goes with his heart, he acts impulsively, he is the center of attention whenever he's in the scene. And David is this more reserved guy who is you know trying to I guess they try to honor their grandma, who is the person who left the money to go do this tour uh in her will. But they do it in different ways, right? And again, the same way we see ourselves in Joel and Clementine, you can do that parallel with Benji and David. But in this case, with the casting, it seems like you know, Kieron Colking was like a very obvious choice to play Benji the same way that Jesse Eisenberg fits very nicely into David's character, even though I think Jesse Eisenberg was gonna play Benji, and then Emma Stone, who's the producer, said no, you should play David because you're directing it too, and you don't want to get into this loosey-goosey energy as an actor when you're having to direct the movie as well. So it would be a better idea for you to stay and play David, which I think is very smart. But you know, Kieran Cole can I don't know if he's playing himself in this movie, or if it if it's because his energy is similar to Roman's energy in succession. Yeah, there's something about their energy that's very chaotic that was similar. And you know, with both movies being indie and being smaller movies, um, I guess I guess it's more of a a Charlie episode. I guess next episode, Robin, you're gonna have to suggest the theme. But I guess I kind of saw my life when I was watching a Rio Pain. I went all the way back to Eternal Sunshine, and then I went all the way back to like Sailor Moon and goddamn strawberry shortcake and and how you we see ourselves in these movies, and and it's kind of dialectical, right? Like you those movies shape you, but you also shape the movies with your experience, you shape the viewing experience with your life. Does that make sense? Am I going completely rogue here?

Robin:

No, you have not gone rogue. Okay, um, no, I mean it's interesting you talking about you made me think about my experience because I I talked about watching Eternal Sun. I definitely have more of a connection with Eternal Sunshine, just because it's more a more familiar movie at this point. Um, but I mean I do I I I had the same experience of watching Real Pain of like wondering which character I am. I think for me it was a little more oh, I'm more David than than Benji. But it's it's really wonderful subtlety about how Benji is, you know, you could look at him as as a mess or inappropriate, but he really does and people react to him differently, but he really does uh open people up around him with his abrasiveness or that he doesn't have a filter or something like that. Like he has a connection with his authenticity that he's not afraid showing, where David thinks like, you know, considers like, well, it's not appropriate to show that. And you know, I think Benji's there's that expression, it's better to um ask for forgiveness than for permission. And I think that might be something that's going on with Benji. Like, there's a moment, even very early on, when David and Benji go meet with the other members that are going to be on the tour with them, and one of them is, you know, a survivor of the Rwandan genocide. And whenever Benji hears that, he he says, Oh fuck. Like he just has this big, like an open reaction that is just like, oh, that's but and then you see David apologize to Eloh is the uh Rwandan character's name, but but he but Eloh says, like, no, no, it's okay. And like it, and then he starts talking more, and you can see just like you know, a moment of good filmmaking, writing, and acting, you can see this moment in Jesse Eisenberg's face that like kind of registers like, oh, I thought that was inappropriate, but he's okay with it. And then, like, and even to the point where like where Elog like reaches over David to shake Benji's hand, like David has to move out of the way.

Charlie:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Robin:

So he's making these connections, and David is just a little, and you can see hints of it like Benji talking to the TSA lady at the airport. He's having these connections that they're so easy for him to do, and David kind of is contained with his own anxieties.

Charlie:

But it's also who Benji is around David, because uh, as you were talking about Benji, who is the most more you know, expressive, uh impulsive character, I'm like, oh yeah, I guess I'm more like Benji. But then I think about if I am alone in a situation, if I am isolated, I'm I'm more of a David. Yeah. It's all depends on where you insert yourself. Like if I have someone around me, I feel more comfortable to talk to the TFC lady or more comfortable. It's very relative to to who who's around you, right? So if you're around someone who's more reserved, then you you feel more comfortable being more impulsive, you know, playing that character a little bit, it's a character almost. But I've seen myself in moments where I'm David. I am David when I'm alone and I'm more benchy. I don't know. Don't you think that that's a thing?

Robin:

Like Oh, totally. I mean, it's it's difficult for me to meet new people. And then I have the friends that I know for years that I'm way more comfortable being myself around and being more more impulsive, more I think that's it.

Charlie:

I think you've you said something really meaningful there. Like you have people where you were more comfortable being yourself. So I do feel that my more authentic self is that impulsive person, you know? And if I have someone I'm comfortable with, then yeah, I feel I feel like I can just relax into myself. Whereas if I'm alone, if I'm some with someone I don't know, I'm a little less comfortable to just be me.

Robin:

I think you know, it comes like, why couldn't I be this around new people all the time? And maybe they'd have a quicker intro to me, but I think that's you know why you know, I think you can look at these two characters as you know expressions of one person. I mean, I think this is you know, David and Benji, if you're of a certain kind of a person, they're kind of both in you to different extremes. It's just interesting seeing the idea of the proper way to behave with people and politeness and maybe boundaries or something like that. But what if also it was to be a little more like uh of a live wire situation? Could could that also affect people differently? Maybe that helps people, other people usher themselves out of their shell. So it's a it's an interesting way of looking at it. Like I love that part of the movie where uh because there's something about like if you are a little more insular like David, maybe you have a hard time seeing where other people are at, which is something I can I can at times definitely relate to, where I'm a little if I'm self-conscious, it would help to be focused more on other people, where Benji doesn't have that issue because he's always like like the uh the flight attendant is giving a demonstration. He tells David to be quiet and respect that she's doing her job. And um, you know, people in the group and like or like that Marsha in the group is walking alone and he wonders if she's sad. Then he goes up to him and calls, she's like, you know, what are you like a walking alone? Are you big fucking loser? And like that might be a hurtful thing to say, or it could be a hilarious thing. But I think he knows he he reads people really well, and that's a gift that people can have sometimes if they are maybe uh have experienced different extremes of of emotions.

Charlie:

Yeah.

Robin:

Something I uh okay, by the end of Eternal Sunshine, maybe this is spoiler territory, but you know, Clementine and Joel, they they end up connecting somehow, even though they've had each other erase from their memories, there is something that stays. It's it's beyond a scientific memory or whatever that means. There's something like a deep thing that that bonds them. And by the end, they they reconnect, they find out they've had each other's memories erased, and they decide to go for it anyway. They go for they want to try it again, having a relationship. And in the closing bit of the movie, uh, it can be interpreted different ways, but with Joel and Clementine like running down the snowy beach, and then the film cut. And it then they're set back and they're running again, and they that it cuts and they're like running down like it's an elliptical. That that this may be something of them they could be erasing erasing each other from their memories multiple times because the relationship keeps going wrong. Yep. And that they're going in circles, but they're also learning, perhaps. And at the end of eternal, I mean, no, I was gonna say at the end of eternal pain, at the end of um real pain, you know, Benji and David have a deeper understanding of each other, and that they're also at the places that uh you saw them in the beginning. At the beginning of the movie, right? David is back with his family, and Benji is back at the airport, sitting in the airport, kind of observing people, as he does at the very opening of the film. Benji opens and closes the movie in pretty much the same uh position. His emotions are a little difficult to read. Uh he's not, I wouldn't say he looks happy at the end or at the beginning.

Charlie:

But they're definitely changed.

Robin:

There's a change. There's it's different. Like it's he's such a good actor that it's subtle. But it may not be a life-altering change, but I think he they both learned something, but they're also going back into, you know, they had this pain, but they are uh approaching from where they were before, having learned learned something. But I do like when movies kind of move in a it's it's like a circle. Yeah. It's going back to repeat itself, but it's not necessarily bad. It's their lives, and you can keep learning something and making and learning from mistakes, even if it feels like your life is starting back over exactly where it was again.

Charlie:

But that's how it is with every experience, every relationship. You know, I know some movies are like super fantastical, and like, you know, there's a huge change in like someone uh is you know lives in a studio apartment, and at the end of the movie they're in a mansion. But in our lives, you know, we go through our relationships and our trips and our experiences, and then we're back in our apartment, and we're back doing our jobs. But those experiences and relationships and travel and what have you, they change you. But it's not every time that we get to have this big expression of that change, you know, especially material ways. It's like, yeah, man, I went to Peru and I came back a different person. But yeah, I was still going, you know, doing my job the next day, and I have to pay the bills, and I live in the same apartment, you know.

Robin:

So yeah, well, it's no, that's right. I mean, neither, you're right, like that's that's interesting. Neither movies have um that a yeah, uh a material, like materialistic, right? Like in terms of like yeah, no, no, they're both such internal journey movies, even though they are literal journey movies. Like one is a journey into the mind and buried memory, and it's like this like a melancholy fun house or something like that. And yeah, yeah, and then real pain is very uh simply done and it's and it's and it's subtle.

Charlie:

It's external, yeah. Yeah, real pain is a literal journey in terms of travel, but it is a journey into memory as well, when you think about the memory of the of the Holocaust, yeah. And and the pain that their ancestors went through, right?

Robin:

No, it's it's their memories of each other, they're what their relationship meant. I mean, these are also estranged cousins in a way. They uh you get the feeling that if they haven't been close lately. This is probably like you know, the closest they've been in a while.

Charlie:

Yeah.

Robin:

So the title A Real Pain. Yeah, I I find these both um okay, uh, this is an honor, but both very good titles for these movies.

Charlie:

I would say like A Real Pain is so good.

Robin:

A real pain is is good. Could it cause it, you know, is it um is Benji, is Kieran Colkin a real pain? Like a pain in the ass. But I was watching an interview with Jesse Eisenberg, and he said so like what kind of pain is valid.

Charlie:

Yeah.

Robin:

And uh he has, you know, his character David has uh a modern pain where it is um anxiety, it's OCD, and it's a medicated sort of um pain. And uh Benji is going through something perhaps a little more profound with trying to take his life. And and both of these these pains that are kind of dueling with each other, you know, they're taking they're taking place against the backdrop of practically unfathomable pain of the Holocaust. And I guess his trying to reconcile pain these different expressions of of pain. And is it okay to feel valid in your pain against this one who that might be larger? And I don't have an answer, and apparently he said he didn't have an answer, but I thought it's it's really interesting to think about.

Charlie:

Yeah, and I don't always we don't always get answers when we're watching these, when we're making these. Yeah. It's all about it's more about questions, really. I mean, if what can you imagine if we went and tried to figure out the meaning of eternal sunshine and the spotless mind? We could we would be here for like three hours, just oh, it could mean this, it could be like spotless, meaning there's no memories, that person, but there's the sunshine. You know, then it could just the love goes on, and you know, like it's just it's yeah, totally.

Robin:

Well, I struggle with like eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, because I it's such a it's a it's a bold title, obviously, and cryptic, and obviously the quote, right? The Alexander uh Pope quote that Kirsten Dunst gives.

Charlie:

Yeah, I think that we could literally stay here for hours just talking about the title of that movie, but I think it's it's just that we're gonna give spoilers here, but that line, Meet Me Montauk, yeah, that Clementine never said in real life. It is just that line is a feeling, that line is the impulse, that line is the wonder, right? That line is what makes him impulsively get on a train on Valentine's Day and go to Montauk. He doesn't know why. That line is this little bit of memory that stays there because you can't really wipe everything, you can't wipe a feeling, right? Yeah, you can. So the eternal sunshine. I think that the sunshine, I don't know. I I think you can get a little silly as trying to like figure out every word, but I think there is a a humanity that you can't wipe out, right? And in this case, it's kind of a soulmate thing, right? They're supposed to be together, and that's why they keep running into each other, even when they uh erase each other from from their memories, right? So uh that humanity, that love that stays, that can't be erased, you know.

Robin:

Yeah, no, I that's that's well put. And both I think both movies would have that in common. People, um, the tour guide in Real Pain says, you know, this is a tour about pain, but it's also a tour about people and resilient people.

Charlie:

Wow, and we could do a whole other conversation, just talk about because you know, the first thing I thought was the you know, the characters and how we see ourselves, but we could totally just talk about how movies deal with memory, and that would be a whole different show. And people are probably gonna be like, Why didn't I talk about memory? Why are they talking about characters? They have more in common than I thought about in the beginning.

Robin:

Yeah, we have to do part two. Wait, well, when the people are uh yeah, stomping their feet for it, we'll uh we'll do it.

Charlie:

Yeah, how did I not pick that up? I thought about the characters because you know what? Because I'm self-absorbed and I was thinking about myself and my own experience.

Robin:

Charlie, I'm right there with you. That's why we get along so well.

Charlie:

But yeah, I mean, I think we should wrap here, and I I do wonder if people think they're more of a Charlie or uh or a Robin.

Robin:

Right in comment. Subscribe and comment.

Charlie:

Yeah, let us know what you think. Subscribe, like, comment. I hope people are more of a robin because you know what? I think we need more robins in this world.

Robin:

Oh, that's kind of you. And I agree.

Charlie:

Fuck you. You asshole. You're supposed to say no, we need more Charlies.

Robin:

I mean, yeah, okay.

Charlie:

That's fine. We need more Charlie.

Robin:

We need some Charlie.

Charlie:

No, no, no.

Robin:

We need a dash of Charlie's.

Charlie:

Yeah, yeah. I think we need a dash of Charlies and many more Robins.

Robin:

Charlie's are and a heap and help of Robin.

Charlie:

Anyway.

Robin:

All right.

Charlie:

Nice talking to you, pal. I'll see you next week.

Robin:

See you next week, pal. Thank you for this conversation.

Charlie:

Thank you. Okay, bye.

Robin:

Bye.