What Have You Been Watching?
Two friends living on opposite sides of the country check-in with each other about Film, TV and culture.
What Have You Been Watching?
One Battle After Another
Charlie and Robin don't waste time with pleasantries this week, but they do have a great time watching One Battle After Another, Paul Thomas Anderson's latest film. It's funny, exciting, and surprisingly topical for something in development for over a decade. They talk about style versus substance in filmmaking, and what makes a movie just plain fun to watch.
Hello, hello, my friend. How are you doing?
Robin:Charlie, buddy. Do you know what it's it's had its ups and downs here lately.
Charlie:Okay.
Robin:Um, I can't expect every day to be sunshine and rainbows, and sometimes times are tough. Um This isn't an immediate segue into the movie. We can talk about more stuff before, but do you know what it feels like? It feels a lot like our movie today. It's one battle after another, damn it.
Charlie:When I went to watch the movie, I said, hey, you know, if when we when we start watching the movie, you need to go to the bathroom, don't worry. It's just gonna be one battle after another. And I felt very smart.
Robin:Yeah. You come back to your seat and you ask your friend, like, what happened? It was a battle.
Charlie:A battle. And you know what?
Robin:When I get up and I go to the bathroom, it's gonna be battle.
Charlie:Exactly. It's just one battle after another. We can get into it. You know, we don't need to do the whole how are you doing thing.
Robin:We need to. You know what? Sometimes we're so dang. Oh, should I ask you how you are?
Charlie:How you how you feel that's not important.
Robin:Yeah, I didn't think so.
Charlie:I'm okay. I'm okay. I feel the same way in one battle after another. I am actually excited to start talking about the movie, and you know what? We can just sneak in our personal feelings about our own lives while we talk about the movie. There are no rules here.
Robin:There are no rules in podcasting. That's the first rules of podcasting, is there are no rules.
Charlie:No rules. Let's dive right into it. Tell me, buddy. What did you think of One Battle After Another by Paul Thomas Anderson, 2025, with Leo DiCaprio, Champagne, Chase Infinity, Benito del Toro, Regina Hall, Tiana Taylor, and uh many more. What did you think of that movie? Tell me everything.
Robin:I was so excited to see this movie. And you know what? It lived up to the hype.
Charlie:Yeah, it's pretty good, isn't it?
Robin:I this really I was getting a little bit worried.
Charlie:Yeah.
Robin:Uh leading up to finally seeing it, that um because I was hearing stuff, you know, this is the movie of the centuries so far. Uh it's a modern masterpiece.
Charlie:But you know what? In the States, everybody thinks that every week there's a new movie of the century. I'm sorry. Every like people hype it up too much. People need to calm down.
Robin:And I think of the film folk, they well well, the nerds, they need to calm down. But you know what? It it it really scratched pretty close.
Charlie:Close, yeah.
Robin:At that uh feeling. Um So this movie, I guess we should maybe talk a little about like what is this movie about?
Charlie:Yeah, I'll do it.
Robin:One battle after another is it begins. We're following a group of uh modern day revolutionaries, a collective of people fighting the power, um, breaking up um I guess you could call them like federal holding centers for immigrants, something like that, like a or a concentration camp for maybe a more accurate term.
Charlie:Can I can I open a can I open a parenthesis there? When you say modern day, it's it's important to note that they don't specify when it takes place.
Robin:That is true. That is true. I guess uh it's certainly a more It is kind of modern. There's phones, there's You could say I guess write it up as like a contemporary.
Charlie:Contemporary, yeah. It's almost as if a parallel universe. It like it feels that it takes place, you know, because he says I'm from somewhere in the 80s, Leo DiCaprio says at one point.
Robin:Yes.
Charlie:I think I think most of the movie probably takes place between I would say between 2025 and 2045. Like be between that because if he's from the 80s and he's about 50, you know what I'm saying? It would be 2030, 2035, somewhere around there. It is like an imaginary future. Yes, and go on. Sorry. I just wanted to make that parenthesis.
Robin:No problem. There are no rules in podcasting.
Charlie:No rules. Um rules.
Robin:So yeah, just a quickly, uh basically we are following a group of uh radical revolutionaries who are uh doing kind of direct action disruption, even bombing of specific centers, maybe federal centers that they deem to be um part of an imperialist uh US government that is infringing on personal rights. And in this group is Leo DiCaprio, Tiana Taylor, all the revolutionaries, DiCaprio and Tiana Taylor have a relationship. And essentially we see this group kind of disintegrate, um, fall apart due to an eruption of violence that kind of forces everybody to kind of scatter to the winds, all the revolutionaries. And then there's a time jump. Say about 16 years later, and Leo DiCaprio has a daughter now, who's in high school, 16 years old. And it's kind of like um, what if the past comes back to haunt you? And uh essentially that's what happens. Yeah. Leo DiCaprio and his daughter are kind of pulled back into a life um that DiCaprio kind of forgot about, that seemed like a distant past, but um because of a real, real scumbag played by Sean Penn named uh Colonel Stephen Lockjaw, who is trying to get into this group of white supremacists called the Christmas Adventures. He needs to rid himself of his past. So he goes on a mission to um to kidnap and do away with uh I guess to find out what is up with um this relationship that he had with DiCaprio's wife back in the past.
Charlie:So in order to talk about this movie, we kind of need to give a little a few spoilers. So if you haven't seen it, I str we strongly advise that you go see it before you listen to us. But we need to kind of refresh the memory of the people who have seen it so we can talk about it. So as the listeners know, because you have seen this movie, um we follow the story of Leonardo DiCaprio's character. We have kind of two spectrums in this film, politically speaking, and also in terms of objectives, in terms of stories. So we have Leo DiCaprio, and he's part of this resistance group called The French 75. His partner, played by Tiana Taylor, her name is Porfidia. They have um they have a history, they end up having a daughter. At the same time, Porfidia is having an affair with Lockjaw, played by Champagne, which is pretty wild considering their worldviews. Porfidia is a revolutionary from the left, and Lockjaw is a white supremacist, and they're on opposite sides politically, but they do have an affair. Ultimately, uh Porfidia is um one of the more we can almost say that she's kind of unhinged. She commits uh an act of unprovoked violence, and she gets arrested, and she does betray her fellow revolutionaries, ends up fleeing the country, and and Leo DiCaprio and his daughter, and their daughter, they have to change identities, and he becomes Bob Ferguson and his daughter Willa Ferguson, and they just run away and they just change lives completely. They just hide. That's kind of how the story unfolds in the prologue. Sixteen years go by, and Bob Ferguson is now this very nostalgic kind of bum. He doesn't really do much, just lies on the couch smoking weed, uh, watching revolutionary movies, and his daughter Willa doesn't really understand some of his ways. He doesn't allow her to have a phone, and and um she kind of acts a little bit like his mom almost. He's kind of pathetic. And calling down Lockjaw, he is offered a position in a white supremacist group called The Christmas Adventures. And in order to join that group, he needs to make sure that his past is quote unquote clean, and he needs to make sure then that his affair with perfidia in the past hasn't resulted in basically him having a baby who happens to be black. So basically, Lockjaw needs to find out if this baby is his or not, and if it is his, basically he set out to kill this baby because he doesn't give a shit. And that's when the adventure part starts, because now Leo DiCaprio, Bob Ferguson, needs to save his daughter. Well, lockdown was get her and kill her. So those are opposite sides, right? And do you wanna speak a little bit, Rob? And I've already spoke so much just setting up the movie, and then I'll jump in.
Robin:Well, it's a tough it's a tough go to kind of uh get into the story. Yeah, it's a lot uh leads into the more adventure, which is like the meat of the of the story. But I love the um the I think it's uh Tiana Taylor's voice that you hear saying, uh when we hit that time jump, like 16 years later, not much has changed. And I do think that's like part of the movie in a way, or at least a theme in it. And something that I heard Paul Thomas Anderson talking about is that like, you know, that old saying, like, the more things change, the more they stay the same. And I think that was um getting into some kind of the the way the characters feel is that people sometimes have an idea that they are changing things, but it's actually kind of staying the same. And I think that's part of even DiCaprio's character that you're seeing is that as you said, he kind of is a bit of a wastoid or something like that, like kind of like lying on the couch, smoking pot, watching old like revolutionary movies like The Battle of Algiers, and kind of dreaming of his past that seemed so important, and that they were doing things and accomplishing things. And in a sense they did, but in a sense they they they didn't, because nothing really nothing fundamentally changed. Changed. And nothing fundamentally changed from their actions, and that could be for, you know, a number of of different reasons, disorganization or just being crushed by the weight of of uh of the government or something like that. Yeah, the government is way more highly like organized and uh But I did like this is you know I would say, you know, the beginning of the movie, there is with all Paul Thomas Sanderson movies, there's uh he always maintains a lot of humor within it, but definitely the f the prologue is really moves and it's more like a thriller, like a really like a it kind of like launches you into like this action with explosions and and guns and moving very quickly. Um and there is some humor in there, some odd humor, and then when we get into the 16 years later, we get to see like you know, Bob Ferguson really having like some dude-like, you know, Big Lebowski like qualities. Um like whenever like the call to action uh happens, because his daughter goes to a high school dance, and in this time the government is already on their trail because they had captured former revolutionary who uh who informed on them where their new location and identities are. So she goes to the dance, she's escorted out by Regina King. A former revolutionary, yeah, fellow revolutionary from back in the day. She takes Willa to safekeeping, and the Lockjaws forces are closing in on DiCaprio, and you know, he has to go back into his mind has passed in order to figure out what to do to help his daughter. He gets this phone call and he can't remember passwords, he can't remember. So that's like where it starts getting really funny to me because like what if I was watching, I think, yeah, another interview with like P. T. Anderson or Leonardo DiCaprio, and they're talking about how to get into this character, and it's like, well, what if you know he's the hero and he wants to save his daughter, but what if he's like quite limited in that ability to actually do that in terms of like his cognizance, his his memory, or the character Bob Vergson describes himself as a drug and alcohol lover.
Charlie:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Robin:Uh I believe. And um, and so like he is, you know, having to go through this haze of marijuana smoke in order to like get to the next point where he can think clearly, you know, get on this journey and start trying to figure out where his daughter is, where the rendezvous point is.
Charlie:Yeah, yeah, and um he's basically carried through the movie, right? He's helped by a lot of people to get where he needs to get to. And by love, you know, by love. He's carried by love. I think that, you know, when we talk about Paul Thomas Anderson's style, I think we need to give him credit for some really original ideas. Um, especially, well, this film works so well as an action slash comedy. Like it's so funny. It's so funny. I know that one of the controversial scenes with in Sing that I absolutely loved was the car chase. I thought that was such an original way of doing a car chase. I know it's somewhat not realistic, I guess, because of the point of view of the driver, but I I still I still thought it was so well done. It gave me I got a little almost a little nauseated at one point. And um I felt like a roller coaster. And so his style is so well defined. And I find that that's oh yeah. It's one of the hardest things to do like as a director is to have a very, a very unique style, and especially when it's not necessarily because a lot of I don't know how to explain this, but style is not just the stuff with a certain color or a certain or if the like the editing is really quick, it it's the way the story moves. So sometimes people don't notice it the style, but it's still there. And Paul Thomas Anderson has both. He has the stuff that is really noticeable and the stuff that that is kind of working in the background. And I find that to me, it's the pacing, right? I I sat down to watch Magnolia not that long ago, and I hadn't watched it in a long time. And it's like, what is it, three hours and a half or something? It's crazy.
Robin:It's pretty close. Yeah, it's three plus three hours and ten minutes, I think.
Charlie:Three hours and ten minutes. I was like, oh my god, you know, like am I gonna and it didn't feel that way at all. But it also didn't hit me with super fast editing or weird colors, you know, and my I'm talking about this. When we think Wes Anderson, yes, there's a color, a type of color, type of style that comes to mind. It so it doesn't have to be quite that extreme for it to be highly stylized. Or when you think of a Boss Lerman movie with all the cuts and the and the fast forwards, you know, the fast editing, that's also highly stylized, but it doesn't have to be that, and I'm not saying this as a bad thing, but but like on the nose for it to be recognizable. Does that make sense?
Robin:It does, yes.
Charlie:And I think that Paul Thomas Anderson, he does it so well in in the pace, like it never feels I don't know, I don't know, not that not that boring isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes you need the boredom, but it never feels boring. It flows so well. No, and you're right. I think that he knows how to balance those things with humor, with drama, with action, and I was just highly, highly entertained by this movie. I I was just I really, really enjoyed it. I watched it, I went to the theater twice to watch it, and um yeah, I was just I just really loved it.
Robin:Oh, I loved it too. Like um, and I I went and saw it twice as well. And no, I was really, I guess, you know, surprised by just how fast this movie goes. Yeah. You know, Magnolia, Magnolia it goes in and out of like moving quick, but it's more the beginning of Magnolia, I would say, moves quite quickly, but I mean Magnolia also takes its time with some like extended uh monologues and long moments and lingering moments, and uh sort of you know, similar with uh There Will Be Blood as well. Also, it's it's not a movie concerned with rushing, you know, it takes its time, it has action in it. But in one battle, I mean, like, you know, you're on this journey, you get kickstarted, and the movie really doesn't let up for the most part. You know, it lets moments breathe whenever it feels right to do so, but um, you really do feel almost like a ticking clock. And I was surprised that you know, time went by like just as fast, if not faster, the the second time.
Charlie:Yeah, yeah. Super fast.
Robin:Just really entertaining, and maybe he's working with um, you know, kind of the first time with these like action set pieces, like whenever DiCaprio's home gets raided at the first, you know, blowing the doors off the hinges and like putting a gas bomb into the tunnel, him like running away, him like jumping from rooftops, being brought in by the cops, like, you know, yeah, just uh, you know, it it did really um it was interesting to see him working with guns and things like that and car chases and a lot of action. It's not something that I'm used to seeing with a Paul Thomas Anderson movie. And you were talking about like we were talking about the style too, and just like kind of like prepping a bit for this episode. I watched a like a good interview with Paul Thomas Anderson. He was talking about how initially, you know, he was asked about his style, and you said it all begins kind of initially, like the most important thing is having the substance there and like the story and the characters, and he wants, you know, once he has that, then he builds from that and you can like um modulate the tone of style necessarily, and that sometimes an abundance of style can be you know making up for that lack of a core of of caring about the story and and the characters. But with with Paul Thomas, um, you know, you never really have to worry about that because he definitely does put a lot of care into that, and then you know, the style there it is a lot of style in the movie, but it you're right, it becomes a little bit invisible because we're not noticing so much like quick editing or maybe a formalist style, or maybe a very highly stylized something like Wes Anderson or Baz Lerman. It becomes a little bit more hidden in this, even though it is it is style, everything is style making you trout and like pulling you through the world and the and the plot and the the story and the moments, just the same as the other ones do.
Charlie:I'm so happy you mentioned the core, the core of the movie, the center of the movie, because uh, and I know you know that I this is coming up because I I told you I wanted to talk about this. Um, which is well, we talked about our last episode, it was actually Eddington. And if you remember, Eddington has also like quote unquote two sides, like the liberal and conservative kind of, but it's almost like Joaquin Phoenix's character f ends up falling into the conservative side, just like in opposition to the liberal, just because he doesn't like the liberal mostly. And it becomes about sides, and people were criticizing Ariase because he didn't pick a side. And we argued that, you know, it was more about experiencing the chaos in that movie than like picking a side, even though there might be some moral commentary here and there. We felt like Ariase was kind of giving us this experience that we all had in 2020 with the pandemic. And in that way, I I didn't feel like he needed to quote unquote pick a side. And there's a lot to debate on that, because then there's the big tech side, which seems like it's the side that Arias is actually against, but I'm not gonna get into that now. In the case of one matter of another, there are two very opposite sides, not only politically, but also in terms of objective, uh, which I guess is pretty much the same thing. But we have our hero, quote unquote, who is part of a revolutionary group. He is what we would say he's more on the left, on the on the uh radical left, and um Lockjaw, which is this um cardinal and which is a white supremacist, he's uh far on the far right. And there was also a lot of criticism to Paul Thomas Anderson in terms of picking a side, right? Um some people were like he doesn't pick a side, and there's a lot of people saying that he Paul Thomas Anderson picks a side and is the left. And I don't really agree with that. I don't know how you feel about it. Uh, but so I would say that he favors the left simply because his hero is on that side, and we see the story from his point of view and his feelings, as opposed to the far right, which is this horrible monster who wants to kill a 16-year-old and who's a full-on like white supremacist and wants to be a part of an unimaginably grotesque and and vile white supremacist group. Obviously, it's kinda easy to pick the side of the left if you were gonna put it like that. But I don't really think that he chooses that he chooses the side of the father who loves his daughter more than he picks the side of the political left. You know what I'm saying? To me, uh the story is not a story uh really about politics. There's politics involved, and the politics interfere in the character's motivations, but I think in its core, one battle after another is a movie about family. Uh I feel like it's a movie about a father who loves his daughter and a father who hates his daughter. And one wants to save her and one wants to kill her. And naturally, if we're believing in the good of the human being, I don't know, we're gonna side with the father that wants to save his daughter. And Paul Thomas Anderson also sides with that guy. So in that way, and I'm trying to cause any controversy by saying this, I think it's pretty clear, it's like it's almost kind of like a quote-unquote conservative belief, you know, like family above everything, especially when family is a you know traditional family, in the case of the right, is a topic of the right, right? Like the importance of family. Uh, not that the left doesn't think family is important, but I'm just saying it's a talking point for the right. Um and to me, and it's one of the things that actually bothered me about this, is that because Paul Thomas Anderson politically, I feel like he places himself above those two sides. It's to me almost feels a little bit like being above those two sides, it almost feels like he loses he loses an opportunity. I or or he didn't maybe he didn't want to take that opportunity, I don't know. But me being someone that is very much on the left, I I wish he had taken more of the leftist side. You know, I wish that he hadn't put himself above the issues like that, because then it creates almost this kind of like demobilizing feeling, you know, like the left is okay, but only, you know, if only they could be a little less like perfidia, if only they could be I don't know how to explain it, but it just feels like he's willing to talk about the left if it's the left that is sitting on the couch, if it's the left that is uh a little tamer, you know, than than someone like perfidia. And again, I'm not saying perfidia was a great example, you know, and I'm not saying that, but it just seems that it's almost a little it's removed and and it creates that that kind of two-sidism. I just came up with that, I don't know if that exists, but like there's two sides and they can just and and I just feel like that is a a highly, I would say it's like a liberal kind of morally superior way of looking at things. I'm not saying that Paul Thomas and this is that guy. I don't know Paul Thomas and personally, but but I'm just saying that it creates a lot that feeling a little bit of like, look at those guys fight. Yeah, well it's I like the left more. I like the left more, but you know what I'm saying?
Robin:Yes. Uh uh yeah, it's you know, um whenever a movie has yeah, politics in it, it becomes hard to not think about where the the filmmaker might be standing. I know just from some interviews that yeah, it wasn't really you know, even though it just came out in a politically fraught time that we're going through where there really are concentration camps of of migrants in the in the US, um and that's what the movie opens with. Yeah, it's hard to not be like, oh my gosh, this is so even though or prescient or like this is so um current, even though like Paul Thomas Anderson started writing this some 20 years ago, or at least started the process of it. And then that this the book was written in 1984 or came out that way.
Charlie:Wow, yeah.
Robin:And again, going back to that, you know, has anything changed, you know, in terms of like what politics feels like, I will say it's you know, I'm definitely m more on the left as as well. And uh whenever a movie sometimes has leftist politics, and especially one that starts as intensely as this one, with this group, the French 75, as they're called in the movie, doing these um political acts of uh destruction. And a way to kind of show that, oh, maybe that intensity isn't the answer is to have a quote unquote an innocent person be harmed or killed by their actions, which is perhaps I think he's a security guard in the movie, and perfidia takes out whatever she's going through between her having a baby and and and Bob and her personal feelings out on this person and kind of that's like, oh, they went too far.
Charlie:Then they're bad. Now they're bad.
Robin:Yeah, and I can see that point. I can see that point, but um Yeah.
Charlie:Can I also add something before you go on? Sorry, can I also add another thing to that point? Is also that, right? How can you not quote unquote side with the left when there's an innocent girl targeted by an evil guy and the guy on the left wants to save her? You know, like it it's almost like there needs to be that innocence that that is in in in danger for a society with that kind of quote unquote radical left. So I totally agree with you there. Sorry, go on.
Robin:Oh yeah, no, uh, yeah. Um But I would say it adds, you know, there's there's complications with the feelings afterwards, like, you know, the way that after that happens with Profidia killing the security guard, she's being paraded through the police station, and it feels like you know, they're treating her like an animal. And it the way it's filmed is also it seems like you're on perfidia's side in terms of like how they want to humiliate her.
Charlie:Yeah.
Robin:The way that they're kind of like all crowd around, they're taking pictures. So I think like there's still you know a lot of sympathy happening for perfidia. And the way that, you know, the revolutionaries are dispatched, you know, killed. It's hard to maybe, like, perhaps he Paul Thomas Sanders is more of, you know, the I I don't know, just based on some of the story choices, but that in terms of how the group disintegrates, maybe it is more of a liberal left than perhaps a farther left, where but I will say, like, I don't I don't unless I'm forgetting something, at no point is an authority figure, like a cop or a government official ever viewed as a good person.
Charlie:That's very true. That's very true. No, I think you're right.
Robin:Like they're all they're all there's no good cops in this movie. There's no good soldiers, there's no good government people. They're either like under orders of like a renegade maniac like Lockjaw, or they're some sort of a shadow element, like the Christmas adventures who are explicitly, you know, bad and racist to the point of it being comical, how you just want to laugh at them. And like that is part of I think, you know, an approach to uh this that kind of hate and that kind of insane thought is to just laugh at it in the in the sense that you're taking you're making them look ridiculous. So I guess my feelings, I can definitely I see your point, but I think like as I think about it, it's definitely a complicated feeling because I'm like when you were talking about that, I'm like, oh yeah, that's true. It does, but you know, there could be an instance of like, oh well, there's one good government guy, there's one good cop. But in this one, I yeah, I think like all the help that is coming to Bob to to help rescue his his his daughter is coming from the revolutionaries, the underground. It's coming from people who are working these jobs, yeah. Like, you know, we meet Sensei Sergio, yeah, played by Vinicius Del Toro, is an amazing character, and he has like he has this whole like subsection uh that is working for him that are also like on the run, that are also wrapped up in in politics and like trying to figure something out and make life better, and they're all together and they're like a family.
Charlie:So all the you know it's I got tear teary-eyed twice in the same spot watching the movie twice. Uh in the same spot I got teary-eyed, which is when uh he gets arrested and someone helps him, says that that he's diabetic. Yeah, and then he's sent to a hospital, and the two women uh help him get away, and you know that they work with Sergio and like in one way or another. And I don't know, the it almost Leo DiCaprio's character almost looks like a baby. Yeah. He almost looks like a baby, yeah, and he's being looked after. And I I yes, please go on. Sorry.
Robin:No, no, it it's funny though. You mentioned like getting emotional about that. I I it happened more so the second time that I watched it whenever at the police station, you know, the uh medical attendant worker who is gonna figure out whether he can go to jail or the hospital, you know, gives him a code, he gives him a look. And he and like, you know, Bob is he's clear enough to know whenever he is being spoken to by a for lack of a better word, a comrade.
Charlie:Yeah.
Robin:Um, in terms of like helping and and then so yeah, I found that emotional too, just in the fact that they're like so willing to help and know what they're doing. Um, yeah, it's uh yeah, that kind of solidarity was really nice to see. And it you're right, Bob is you know uh he doesn't give up, like he is trying to figure it out to the best of his abilities, and he's not at this point like a totally clear thinker, but he's ingratiated himself and he's like enough of a trusted person for these people to know that they can trust him to do the right thing, and yeah, exactly, exactly. So by that, like he's able to get to the point further and further along to uh locating and uh rescuing his his daughter.
Charlie:Yeah, so yeah, and I and I didn't mean to say because I I do think he sides more with the left in terms of even like perfidious causes, when she's on the phone right in the beginning, she's talking about her causes, they're all to me righteous, right? I mean, no borders, apportional rights, and but then they he had to make her, I'm gonna put it in quotes, like a villain by killing an innocent person and then ratting out on her on her fellow revolutionaries. And so he creates circumstances in a world where it's impossible not to side with the left because the right is like so it's so terrible.
Robin:Yeah.
Charlie:Crazy. It's so terrible. Which to me is the it's to me is the world that we live in now. It's just that it's not as blatant. But um, I just thought my point was just that they I don't think he takes the side of the revolution. I do think he is still removed. And that's to me, he's it's a side too. It's a liberal side. And and it's a liberal side that that is sympathetic to the left. But I wouldn't my point is that I wouldn't say because I saw critics saying that he was trying, I don't know, he was I literally read someone saying that he was siding with terrorism, something along those lines. And and that's where I'm like, yeah, in no way. It's if anything, and and I and I'm not saying this is a necessarily a bad thing, it's a conservative movie in the sense that the value that is most most um well regarded here is that of the family, the family reuniting, the dad that wants to save his daughter, right? Like it's it's a drama in that way. It's it's it's just a dad trying to fight his daughter. It's a family drama.
Robin:Yeah.
Charlie:If you look at it from that point of view, that's kind of what I mean.
Robin:Oh well, well, I know you yeah, yeah. Uh oh, totally.
Charlie:Like that is But I'm glad you pointed out the cop thing, the the government and cop thing. I it's something I didn't realize, but you're right. There's no good government or police in this movie.
Robin:No, it's it's everybody like it's you're they're very much on their own. They have to help each other, and like that help is not gonna come from these authority things that we they have to figure it out themselves through solidarity. But there's like um there's something about well, the big part of this movie is also, as we talked about, like, you know, the past coming back to haunt you or even dealing with the past is something that um Willa, played by Chase Infinity, has to deal with in the movie. Is that Bob told her that, you know, her mom, she doesn't know her mom, because she laughed obviously, but that her mom is a hero and something that is revealed to her through being hidden by is it the Sisterhood of the Brave Beaver or the something like that? Whenever she goes with them, these are also a subsection or adjacent to or part of the revolutionary movement. Um, so they're kind of hidden everywhere. I like these kind of like pockets of like people on their own trying to make a difference on that to figure out a better way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but the you know, Will is told by them that, you know, she asks, like, was my mother a hero or a rat? And she's like, Well, she was a rat. And they're suspicious of her too because rats breed rats or something like that.
Charlie:So something part of it is So Gwilla and having to come to terms with that.
Robin:Yeah, coming to terms with like a past that isn't what you thought it was, that isn't nice, that's maybe embarrassing, or even you know, uh the wrong thing. But it's a it's a complicated, you know, nobody's one thing, you know. It's um yeah, so I did like her having to really reckon with that as a child, you know, getting older and like seeing the flaws and the failures of your parents is a big part of accepting it and moving on and trying to, you know, course correct for yourself whatever that looks like. So I I really like that that you know, they don't forget about because you know, Profidia essentially um, you know, in a way her spirit and her actions are throughout the movie, but like essentially she's disappeared from the movie once the prologue is is over. And then, you know, that takes us pretty much right into uh whenever she is found by Lockjaw, and like we get officially that um she is in fact his his daughter. Can I just mention right quick that this is probably my favorite Sean Penn performance that I've ever seen?
Charlie:Oh my god. I cannot stop going like this. I am not gay, I am not a homosexual. My gosh, and I'm not even a like a huge fan of Champagne as a person, like from what I've heard. I'm not gonna get into that, but like Yeah, I don't want to get into it either, but yeah. But I can't help it. It is so good. The same with Leo. Leo is also great. Yeah, also have some issues with him personally, but my gosh.
Robin:He is like he's so funny. I don't know if you know. I've heard that like um that he based some of his performance possibly on Vince McMahon from WWE. I don't know if you know who that is, or if you are for if that's a reference point. He's the head anyway. He he kind of has a similar haircut, he has a similar strut to him. He has a very defined strut. Like his performance is so physical with the way he's like moving his lips and his jaw. It's very, very uh well thought out. Obviously, he's a great actor, but this is like I haven't really seen him yet kind of take on these physical ticks and uh voice stuff and movement. Like I think he described it as like really walking and talking, behaving like the character has a stick up his ass.
Charlie:Yeah.
Robin:Which I think really shines, really shines through.
Charlie:And my god, he's so much in shape.
Robin:And he's jacked so and like whenever he was sitting down in the church, it's like his arms, just his veins, and but he's also such a repugnant-looking character. Like he there's something very repugnant, obviously, given just both his outlook on life and people, is is horrifying.
Charlie:Yeah.
Robin:And does something else, you know, the last bit of this movie just flies by with like uh Bob getting closer and closer to finding Willa and um the hit man who was hired by the Christmas adventurers to take care of the problematic Lockjaw who's kind of gone rogue. We thought kills Lockjaw. But then there's the confrontation between uh Willa kind of doing quick thinking and like kind of taking, you know, the wheel in a literal sense with the car. And we have that I think you mentioned earlier, but that really amazing chase sequence with the um rolling hills, that big long stretch.
Charlie:Yeah, yeah, the car chase up and down, up and down.
Robin:It's really unique how they did that.
Charlie:That's what I'm talking about. Like talking about, did you hear that? I'm talking about that's what I'm talking about. His style is just so it sneaks in, and I know some I know some people loved it, and some people hated it because the people that hated it is hated it because it didn't make sense. Like, I don't give a shit if it doesn't make sense. It's fucking awesome. I had a great time.
Robin:And it didn't it didn't make sense that the highway was.
Charlie:No, I think that the point of view of the of the driver, he they would be able to see or something like that. I didn't even pay too much attention to that. Because I don't give a shit. I don't give a shit.
Robin:Yeah, who who cares? Like they're nitpit that you actively don't want to enjoy the movie if that's your problem with it.
Charlie:Yeah.
Robin:Go go go away, go away. But um but no, I I mean I don't think that. I mean, because I've driven, you know, where I'm from, there's a lot of rolling hills, and there are blind, you know, there can be different levels of of hidden, but like there are like truly blind turns. But anyway, but that it was such a well done. It might be like you're like on the ocean or something like that, and the waves are kind of but um Willa, you know, kills a man and that kind of like cements perhaps like her involvement beyond in terms of defending herself or maybe into I think you know, by the end of the movie you get a sense that uh she is um taking the reins now in terms of what a radical left or like what a next revolutionary might look like. I think like she can see um a choice in her that not a lot of you know people maybe can't make. She has a movie character, but like I think it was an important thing. And I really like that you know, way early in the movie that DiCaprio is given these um devices that have a tone.
Charlie:Oh yeah, it's so pretty.
Robin:The tones whenever they get closer, s they sync up and they harmonize.
Charlie:So beautiful.
Robin:And that was a really nice, that was a night, really nice emotional movie, a really nice touch.
Charlie:Yeah, it's very it's very touching and kind of an elegant solution as well. It's just it's just so pretty.
Robin:Yeah, it's it's it's really nice. Um I was just thinking about our good almost baby does steal the show, pretty much steals the show, uh Sensei Sergio. You know, throughout the movie, you you hear people talk about well, I guess at the beginning, like DiCaprio's talking to like his daughter's friends, like freedom. That's what it's all about, freedom, you know, freedom comes up throughout the movie. And you know, why Sensei Sergio says, like, do you know what free when they're driving in the car? Is he like, Bob, do you know what freedom is? Freedom is no fear, and which is actually I found out through the research as a quote from Nina Simone. Um, so that was cool.
Charlie:But then Sergio Like Tom fucking cruise.
Robin:That's right. And then Sergio adds his own spin on it, his very American action spin on it.
Charlie:Very American, yeah.
Robin:And yeah, uh, you know, yeah, freedom is no fear, in the sense that, you know, at the end we also get to see Willa kind of um, you know, she reads that note from her mother, helps to understand her mother and her complications. And in a sense, you know, a lot of the movie was about, to me, that I'm that I'm thinking about it was like ridding the past, ridding fear of what might happen to you because of or fear of consequences of your actions, yeah. Fear of history is kind of like they're kind of liberated at the end of the movie, you know, from a fallout.
Charlie:Can I also come in a little bit before we finish? A little bit in defense of perfidia here. Sure. Okay. This is a woman that grew up with very, very, very clear revolutionary sentiments. She has her beliefs and they're very strong, which is admirable. She grew up in this family of revolutionaries, and then she's suddenly and she has her own contradictions regarding to desire and regards to how she sees even danger and how that affects her desire. And then she becomes a mom, and all she's known throughout her life is revolution, revolution, revolution, and now she's she's dealt these cards with she doesn't she just just doesn't know how to handle. She says, My nipples hurt. Uh you you don't pay attention to me. I carried her and blah. And she doesn't have the tools to handle those contradictions. And obviously, that doesn't justify killing an innocent person uh who's just trying to do their job. We even see in her face when she's about to kill him, that she's she is disturbed by that idea. She's like, come on, man. So let's not like you know, crucify her here. There's a lot of contradictions there, too. That's all I wanted to say. I'm not saying she did the right thing. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. Doesn't justify killing a man, does not justify killing a man. But she is not a vil I don't think she's a villain here.
Robin:No, she's not. I mean, I didn't I don't even think the movie really paints her as that, other than you know, just a company.
Charlie:No, no, no, no, I don't think so either.
Robin:Oh no, but just a complicated, you're right. I mean, like, you know, you made a good point there that uh yeah, I wanted to just acknowledge that yeah, she you, you know, had all these like revolutionary ideals and genuinely so and took action for them, and then once had a kid, could she think of herself as beyond a mother? Or like is that what the expectations are for her now, or like motherhood and how she feels about that? You know, it's it's interesting feelings to kind of navigate uh in terms of like how you should feel about a character.
Charlie:There's a little bit of a conservative reaction to the way that she acts, which like, uh well, she's a mom now, so she's not you know, like and I'm talking more about the reaction. I don't think the movie portrays her like that at all, like uh like a villain, but I'm just kind of reiterating that that's all I wanted to do.
Robin:Oh yeah, no, it's a it's a good, it's a good point. She's is a good character. I mean, they're all great. Yeah, very like complex. All the characters are complex and funny and kind of tragic and um in different ways, but just beautiful. It's a really wonderful movie, and uh, you know, I I can't wait uh you know, honestly, for his for his next one. And I I it was interesting to see him working in a contemporary P. T. Anderson to be working in a contemporary setting. Um I kind of hope he does it again.
Charlie:Yeah, yeah, he doesn't know.
Robin:No, it's it's been all period pieces, and he's you know a major artist uh working today, so it was cool to kind of see him in our world.
Charlie:No, Magnoli's not quite a period piece.
Robin:No, it's not. I mean his last I don't think Magnolia's No, everything after Punch Shrunk Love has been uh has been a period piece except for this one.
Charlie:Oh, okay, okay, okay. That's fair. Okay. That's fair, yeah.
Robin:Um I think so. I think so. And at no point we didn't have to even we didn't even have to call in a Greyhawk 10 during this uh discussion, so that's a good thing.
Charlie:Yeah. I mean we did uh you know I think we we needed to spend more time to talk about this movie, I think. It's a long movie and there's a lot of themes to explore. You know.
Robin:It's a rich, it's a rich movie, yeah, for sure.
Charlie:Yeah, and uh, you know, if you like our podcast and if you want to comment on anything, we have a page on Instagram, what have you been watching pod. Yes, it is that long. Or you can even email us at what have you been watching pod at gmail.com with suggestions, comments, criticisms. I'm sure nobody has any criticism of a podcast. It's perfect. Right?
Robin:Uh quips, concerns, suggestions, yeah, and let us know.
Charlie:We're just starting, we are very much, you know, we have we're we're starting, we're building up. So any suggestions, critique, or even you know, if you want to flatter us with some phrase, uh compliments, whatever, you can. And they're all very welcome, and we would love to hear from you, whoever you are.
Robin:Yes, hit us up, let us know how you're doing, give it to us honestly.
Charlie:Yeah.
Robin:Or don't. Or like just uh praise us, because that'll keep us going too.
Charlie:But listen to us on Spotify or Apple Music, send it to your friends. We're gonna start uploading these to YouTube as well, and share with your film lover friends as well. Please.
Robin:Absolutely. Please. Thank you.
Charlie:Alright. Well, I gotta go.
Robin:Alright.
Charlie:Because I'm recording the middle of the workday, you guys.
Robin:Me too. I gotta go. One battle after another.
Charlie:Bye, Ramen.
Robin:Bye bye.