Helping Leaders Rise: A Conversation with Dr. Karen Hills Pruden

What does it truly mean to lead with confidence, authenticity, and purpose?

In this empowering episode of the HEART Leadership Podcast, Sara Valentine sits down with leadership expert, executive coach, and author Dr. Karen Hills Pruden for a conversation about growth, courage, and stepping fully into your leadership voice.

Together, they explore:
💗 The power of authentic leadership
💗 Why listening and empathy matter more than ever
💗 Building confidence in leadership and life
💗 Helping others grow while continuing to grow yourself
💗 Leading with purpose in today’s world

Dr. Karen shares powerful insights from her leadership journey and reminds us that leadership is not about perfection—it’s about presence, purpose, and having the courage to show up fully as yourself.

This conversation is honest, empowering, and filled with HEART.

🎙️ Listen now on the HEART Leadership Podcast.

A HEARTfelt thank you for listening!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to Leading with Heart, the podcast where leadership meets humanity. I'm your host, Sarah Valentine, and in each episode, we'll explore how to bring heart into the way we lead, live, and love. Heart stands for hear, empathize, acknowledge, respond, and think. These five actions may sound simple, but when practiced consistently, they can transform the way you show up as a leader in the workplace and beyond. So whether you're leading a team, leading a family, or simply leading yourself, you're in the right place. Let's dive in. Dr. Karen doesn't just talk about leadership. She equips people to live it. And what I love most is how her work aligns so naturally with what we talk about here, leading with heart. So, Dr. Karen, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

I'm excited to be here, Sarah. Can't wait for the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Yes. And for those of you who don't know, Dr. Karen and I go back a little ways when we both worked at Colonial Williamsburg Foundation in Williamsburg, Virginia. And she was a great mentor, coach, and colleague to me during that time. So I can't wait to have her share a bit about her story and who she is. She has spent years helping others grow, develop, and step into bigger roles. And I would love, Dr. Karen, for you to tell people what first drew you to that part of HR, that leadership development.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Oh, what first drew me to it? I think what others identified in me, um, that I was a people person. So I really do like people, even when they're not on their best behavior. I think in order for you to um do HR operations as a career, you have to have that love of people. Um, when they're good, bad, and not so good. Yes. Um, yes, yes, yes, yes. And so I've always loved people, and then others have identified that I was good at working with people, um, good at problem solving. It started out with conflict resolution, you know, as a manager helping resolve conflict, and then it went into other things, mentoring and different things like that. And so for me, it is just having a love of people wanting to help them reach their top goal, whatever that goal is for them, and just doing things in a very unselfish manner, um, pouring into them however way I can.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Yeah, and you and you definitely pour into others constantly um and consistently and with love, I think. Uh, I saw that even at Colonial Williamsburg, even before I created the heart framework. You were always um part of my journey and someone I looked up to. Uh, definitely when people were not in their at their best. Because in HR, we we see people at their best and their worst. And it takes a special type of someone to work with someone when they're not being their best selves uh and to help them through that.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Absolutely, absolutely. And it takes a degree of compassion and unselfishness to still be respectful and professional and empathetic and compassionate when they're not at their best because you recognize that they're going through what they're going through, whatever momentarily they're going through, um, that that's not their 99.9% persona. Yes, that they're just working through some issues. And so the goal is to try to remove the barrier of the issue out of the way as best as you can so that they can go back to be their best.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Yeah, yeah. And uh on my podcast, we talk a lot about the heart framework. And I always tell people it starts with listening. And a lot of us listen to respond and don't listen to understand. And I think um during our time, I felt you were always really good at listening to understand, whereas Sarah had to learn not to listen to respond.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Well, I think we all learn it, Sarah. I think we all learn it. I might have had a little bit more time to master it a little bit more than you, but yeah, we all learn. Um, you know, um, but you know, it just depends on what your end goal is. Your end goal is to are you there to really have an understanding of what that person feels, what they're going through, maybe some of the things that aren't quite apparent to you. You can't get that if you don't listen. You know, words, you know, from the heart, you know, not to play up on your, but from the heart, you know, comes out of the mouth, you know, how people really feel, how they interpret things, the pain, the hurt, the happiness, it eventually comes out of in their words and their mannerisms. And if we aren't listening, we miss that part of the communication.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Yes, yes, and that's been a hard, that's been a difficult thing for me to to do because I think out loud through talking and conversating with people. Um, but even when, in particular, when when folks are at a moment where they've messed up, it most of the time they just need someone to hear them out. And they recognize they messed up, but they just need someone to listen to them. So I I think um you've been a great example for really stepping back and hearing people and then meeting them where they are.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Well, thank well, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

I do, I think you've done a good job uh of that. Um, I also think you do a great job of showing empathy. I've seen you in tough situations where someone not five minutes prior was not saying good things about you and you knew, and then you had to have a a coaching session with them to help them. And that that always stuck with me because I was like, How is she doing that? And I think you did that with empathy. Um, how how did you learn to have such empathy for people that way?

SPEAKER_01 7:33

I'm not sure. Again, I go back to, and I don't want to sound like a broken record, I really do like people. And when you really do like people, you really want to understand. You really want to find out what the root cause is of their discomfort, misbehavior, whatever it is. Um, and the only way that you're gonna be able to do that is to listen, put yourself in their place, or think about where you may have been in a similar situation or seen something similar to this, so that you can maybe understand what it is that they say that they're going through or have exhibited that they're going through, so that you know what right questions to ask. Um, but I think it really goes back to me just really um liking people in general. I mean, I know it sounds cliche. Um, it everybody thinks it's more deeper than that. Um, but if I really like you, I don't want to see you hurt. I don't want to see you confused. I don't want to have to discipline you for something that you didn't do. I want to understand what you did do and why you did it and why you think you did it. Um, and so I think it all comes from that space of having a desire to understand my fellow woman or fellow man or employee or whoever it is, um, so that they can be um so that not necessarily judge fairly, but so that you will have the honest facts. Right. And how can you get that if you don't get it from them?

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Yeah. I found um during our time at Colonial Williamsburg, and this is with every company, not just Colonial Williamsburg, teaching listening and empathy to leaders was a struggle. And I think it's a struggle even today, um, where I am. And I wonder, like, why do you think leaders struggle with the listening and the empathy part? I I think it's because I think it's soft, but uh well, and we all have our biases, we all have our triggers.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yes, we have triggers too. Um, and sometimes we think we know what is going on because we've seen something very similar to this person or this situation before, and so we think we know what their motives were or their intent was. What so we don't need to let them tell us, we don't need to wait for them to tell us. I think that's part of the struggle um is just that we're just human because we as humans we all have biases, we all have triggers, we all have things that kind of look familiar and we jump to conclusions. Yes, we do on the fact that it looked, and you know, and I and I to the and I I have that struggle to this day. I mean, we all have it because a human quality. What I've learned to do is just if I gotta bite my tongue, I'm just not gonna say anything. I'm let I'm gonna let them finish, even though I think I know where this is going. If I gotta bite my tongue, I'm just gonna let them finish because there have been many times, and I I use the word many um in a very realistic way and not in a a loose way, um, where I thought I knew where the sentence was going, only to for it to take a left turn. And there is a player, a situation, or something that happened that changed the whole way that I felt about the whatever that that play that person was talking about. And so I've learned the value of letting the message play out, you know, just let the message play out, you know, and not not jumping in like double dutch, you know, where you just want to jump in as soon as they take a breath, you know, and letting them finish, you know, actually finish, stop, pause, where you know, not take a breath. Because sometimes we wait till they take a breath so that we can jump in, but let's and then you know, you share or ask a question for a better understanding. So I think it comes from that.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Yeah, I think um I was told by my former CEO at Give Kids the World, Pamela Lanworth, fantastic person. She says, you know, we judge others by their behavior, but ourselves by our intent. And that really stuck with me because to your point, as we listen to things that people get themselves into, we think we know where it's going, but if we slow down and just wait and get all of the facts, we often find ourselves on a different path. Um, and so that that really has stuck with me um since she said that to me. I was like, that is so true. That is so true. So we you work with many leaders, especially women who are stepping into larger roles and responsibilities, which I think is awesome. Um, how important do you think it is for leaders to feel seen and valued and acknowledged when you're working with them?

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Um, extremely important. Um, because if you if you don't if you don't get acknowledgement, if you don't get some type of recognition that, you know, in order to be, I believe women should be seen, heard, and recognized and paid, paid well. You talk about that, yeah, and paid, paid well, but how do you know to keep doing what you're doing if you don't get acknowledgement of what you're doing? Right. How do you know that you're making an impact? And I think most of us want to influence and impact others and can continue to do what it is that you're doing and know that you're making an impact if someone doesn't give you that feedback that you're making an impact. And so I think it's important for women to receive the um the the feedback. I hate to use that word again, but the feedback that you influence me. It's because of you I did this, it's because of what you put on a table, it's because of what you created, you did this, so that we will know it's a safe space to continue to take risks, to continue to create, to continue to impact others. Because if we don't believe it's a safe space, then we won't do it. We won't do it. So we have to get that recognition and acknowledgement that it is it was good, it was something that was well received, um, that it added value, it transformed, meaning that something changed by your existence in that environment, um, so that we can continue to do those things in whatever environment that we're in. And so it's extremely important that women are seen, heard, and value, recognized, and paid, Sarah.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

I love that you said paid again. Um my current CEO, Caroline Schumacher, is fantastic at uh recognizing all everyone, not just women, but everyone who does a good job on something. She's very good at taking a moment and saying, no, let's acknowledge the work that was put in to whatever project. Um, I really admire that about her. And I love that you keep going back to the paid piece. I'm always surprised when I'm hiring um a female or helping get them promoted, how much we don't like to talk about salary or what we want, or because we don't we have this fear of coming across, like we think too much of ourselves, we don't want to, or maybe just a basic fear of being told no. Um, and sometimes I wonder, but I too struggle with it. I have no problem battling for other people, but it's different when I have to go in and you know advocate for myself. What is your advice to women to get to help them advocate for themselves on getting paid?

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Uh get over it. Get over it because your male counterparts do not have an issue with counter-offering, asking for more than what they're worth. Um, and um, it is the one of the reasons, not the only reason, but it is one of the reasons why women are extremely underpaid. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

You heard it right here. She said, get over it.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah, it's the number, it's a number of reasons. You know, you got to do your research, you got to figure out, you know, where you are in the market, what the market will bear, what the organization will bear, where they are budget-wise, what time of the year is it, a calendar year, a fiscal year, or whatever when you're talking about money. So you got to do your homework. And and you also can't necessarily be a C student. Most of the world is in the middle. So you got to be exceptional. They're not gonna give you more money because you're a woman. They're just not. They're not gonna pay you what they pay the guys just because you're a woman, but they will pay you because you're worth it, and so it's up to you to articulate to them why you're worth it. You know, how did you help them make money, save money, achieve organizational goals, know your numbers? You know, I'm a data geek, I'm all about the numbers, but how did you change the space, you know, of the of the environment that you're currently in and be able to articulate articulate it in quantifiable numbers? Yeah, we as women tend to be more relational people, talk, we pride ourselves on having good relationships, but at the end of the day, we're whether we're in business for ourselves or work for someone else, business means numbers, business means revenue, business means data. So you have to be able to articulate your impact and data, and data can be equated to value and do your homework and just be a bad mamma jam.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

And if you want to hear more from her, to give you her contact information for all of those ladies out there that need extra coaching. Karen is the person you need to get with to help with that.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

I love that absolutely. We we need we need our money, we need our money, we need our paper. Um, because we don't think about cumulative how much money we're leaving on the table. Okay, if you if they're paying you $20,000 a year less than your male counterpart, and you're running circles around him. If you you both are at the same company for 10 years, he's already done made over a half a million dollars more than you with that organization. And that's money you could put in your 401k, money you can put in your whatever, your retirement, money for vacation, land you could have bought, boat you, whatever it is. But look at it in a cumulative way. For every time that you undervalue yourself, don't ask for what you're worth, multiply that times every year that you're in that particular area to see how much money you and that doesn't even talk about the value of benefits and things that you left on the table. That's just salary.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Yeah. So, ladies, take action, get over it, have the hard conversation, get some data. I love that. I love that. Um, you know, it's it's difficult for leaders, especially that I've seen, even though they're they've been a leader, they've maybe they're the expert in their field. I feel like the higher up they go, particularly with women, the more difficult it is for them to advocate for themselves. Um, and it shouldn't be that way, it should be the other way around. We should be getting better at it. Um, and step into those moments and not avoid them. Um for women in leadership, I think um we all have that hesitation, you know, where there's whether it's confidence, perception, lack of past experience. Um what would you give? What would be your advice on women that may be holding themselves back a little? Um, for me, I think it's uh always seeking feedback and never stop learning. That's what I tell people, but I think you're the the leadership expert on how to get women from A to Z, that next level up.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Well, you should have a brag book. So we forget, we forget half of the wonderful things that we do, um, because we we've moved on to the next thing. So make sure that you document your successes, no matter how small, because small, a whole bunch of small successes are big successes for your business or an organization if you work for someone else. And so I think it is important for us to look at our um body of work in a cumulative form to know what our real value is that we add to the table. And the only way that we're gonna do that because we're moving and shaking and doing things and moving on to the next project, is to document our successes as we go along. And don't forget, as higher up, the higher up we are, as we are leaders, we can take um credit for all the successes up under us because we are the leader. We're gonna take the hit when it doesn't go right. You can take the you can take the hooray when it goes well. And so don't forget the hurrahs of your team and put those in your brag book as well. Um when you look back, you know, even just quarterly um at the successes of your team and yourself, you'll see where your time is going. You'll see that you're really you sometimes you'll feel like you're not doing anything and you'll you'll know that that's a lie. Yes. Because your documentation will show that you can just go through your sent box sometimes and your email and see that that's a lie. But you'll see that you're really doing a whole lot. And I think we downplay a lot of the things that we do. How are you gonna know the total value that you bring to the table if you forget one-fourth of it because you moved on to the next project?

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

And that's the way the world, you know, we're we get so busy. Companies get so busy, they move from one thing to the next. Um, but we in HR, we teach leaders to slow down and celebrate the milestones and write it down.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Um, we also tell leaders the document employees all the time, the good and the bad. So it's the same thing for advocating for yourself and applying it to you. I think um that's really good advice. I don't have a Brad book, but I feel like I uh I've I've begun to celebrate the wins. Um, and a large part of that is just watching what you've done. Because I I remember when you left, I was like, well, where is she going? What's she doing? And now it's everywhere. Uh I follow everything uh that you post, and um you're like this globetrotting executive coach, successful speaker. It's amazing what you've done. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

You're too kind, but you're pretty cool yourself there.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Um you remind me, you know, I think uh Karen and I, we had a we had a great mentor in an executive director, Chris Andrews, who we lost to COVID.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Um he had a really good way about him in allowing people to just be who they were. Yes, he never made me feel that I had to be different or put on airs, and he met people uh where they were, and in all situations that I saw him get put into. Um and as a male leader, I thought he did an admirable job of leading women, I really do.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Absolutely. Um just love Chris. Chris is the reason why, even when I created my community sister leaders, that I opened it up to men. You know, although it is called Sister Leaders, whenever I have an event, you'll always see men there, you'll always see male speakers. It's because it's uh he helped me understand that, you know, even though I aspire to have more women, more confident women in leadership, that it has to be a partnership because he was one of my and yours and other people's biggest cheerleader, biggest sponsor. And so we need um men who recognize and see our greatness sometimes when we undervalue ourselves, yeah, sometimes when we haven't quite reached that level yet where we want to talk about our successes. You know, Chris was one that told us how wonderful we were, you know, and we know what he was saying was true because he would repeat some of the things that we have done. Um, and so he helped me to realize that it's not a us against them, women against men, um, that to have more women, competent women and leaders, it has to be a partnership because men still hold the majority of those senior leader positions in most organizations, even in predominantly women organizations. And also, Chris was the one of the individuals who gave me my um glowing recommendation and reference for my first C-suite position. So I will always, he was like, It's time for you to go. They're not gonna promote you. He did that to me too. Yeah, he was like, they're not gonna promote you any further because they're mad because you won't take this position over here in hospitality. He was like, It's time for you to go. Yeah, and he told me, get out. C World's calling you, go. Yeah, he's like, I will give you, give them my name, give them my number, I will get whatever you need, but it is time, you know, show yourself to the marketplace. Yes, and so I will um I have much respect for male allies, male sponsors, male partners, men who really um believe that if you're a qualified, that your name should be in the hats.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Yeah, I have a few allies in my life today. Ian Cole, he's our chief innovation officer. What a man he is an advocate for for number one, anybody that's talented, but he is super good about supporting women and women's growth. Like he's so good at it. Um, John Lewin is uh VP of operations and he's a he's a co-leader, uh he's a peer. He too advocates for women to uh rise up in the in the workplace. So I've been very, very fortunate in my career to have a few Chris's in my life, but he he's always gonna be a special one for me.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Always, absolutely, always.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

I think we were very blessed to have him a part of our journey.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Um, so one of the things I've learned in my journey is uh deep like understanding that leadership is connected to purpose. Um, what keeps you grounded as a leader, especially in your seasons of pressure and growth?

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Keep me grounded.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

Because you you are everywhere right now, and you're still willing to talk to Sarah on a little podcast.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

So I think a little podcast, we are gonna be friends to the end, so don't worry about that. Um, I think for me, first of all, I'm a loyalist. I mean, we came up together, Sarah. You know, we we had we had our ideal job that we wanted, and we both got it. I mean, we we we checked off the list. We we also are two peas in a pot. We were willing to do the work. Um I was just thinking about it. We were grinding back then, yeah. We were willing to, you know, get what take a class here, get a certification there, you know, um, you know, do research. And so for me, what keeps me grounded is you know, I'm a lifetime learner, but I'm also I'm a I'm a good leader, but I'm a good student. I think I'm a better student. And then once I learn whatever the new thing is, by the way, I'm getting AI certified. So okay. So once I learn a new skill, then I can't wait to share with everybody else. You know, it's like you know, and it doesn't come with an invoice all the time, you know, and so because then we all win. I really have a teen collective spirit type way of disseminating information so we all can win. And I want to see us all rise, you know, passing on information, passing on information about jobs, certification, free resources, just all kinds of stuff. And so for me, what keeps me grounded is to see others around me elevate with me. I don't want to get the latest and greatest, and then Sarah is still 10 steps behind me. No, Sarah needs to be right beside me, and so I'm sharing information with Sarah so we can enjoy this together. And then Sarah has someone that she's gonna share information with, and then we just keep sharing it, and next thing you know, we've changed a generation of women leaders. I love that. Or just leaders and leaders in general.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Yeah, there's I I would love to believe that there are many people like that, but there really are not a lot of leaders that do that. They and it doesn't, I don't think it necessarily means they're selfish or self-focused. I think they're just they have their priorities. Yeah, um, and I anytime I get a step forward, I always find myself looking back to see, okay, who else can I bring with me? Yep. In in whatever regard. Um, I just had Katie Finkston on a couple episodes ago. She's the VP of IAPA HR. Fantastic uh individual. And I'm like, hey, I need you to go on the podcast with me. And we're always uh advocating for one another. She's another one that brings people along with her. Uh in fact, I think when she left SeaWorld to go to IAPA, her whole team went with her. So she's one of those two. I love that. I love that. So as you reflect on your, in my opinion, incredible journey, the people, the moments, all the growth. What are you most grateful for?

SPEAKER_01 32:22

I am most grateful for. Can I talk about my faith? I'm most grateful for the people that God continue to put in my path, you know, as I continue to grow. I I have testimony after testimony of things that have happened in my business and my career that I know was God sent. I know wasn't supposed to happen for me the way that it happened, but it did. You know, I know that that was way before my time. I'm not supposed to be doing this now. This is something I'm supposed to be doing 10 years from now. But because of my faith, um, I believe that God sent those people, you know, in my life to open doors for me, to recognize me, to walk with me, to introduce me. And so I try to treat people well um as best as I can. I I have fleshly tendencies just like everybody else, you know, that and God has to be able to do it. Don't we all have to rebuke me, but I try to treat people well because I am constantly being blessed and I and attribute it to my faith and my obedience of how I treat people um to my success. I would not be here if it wasn't for my relationship with God. Um, he's a merciful God, you know, he's a forgiving God. Um, and he's not a God of second chances because I don't know who these people are who get second chances because I done got third, fourth, and fifth chances. Right. So, you know, so so I don't know these second chances people, but um, and as a result of that, I show compassion to others. I have always in my career. Um, I'm empathetic, I'm understanding, I'm forgiving. I don't hold things against people. And because I walk in that spirit, um, it allows me to see the best in people, it allows me to see somebody that maybe someone may have counseled two years ago, become a director two years later. Yeah, you know, and so I tie all of that together because what I have learned is um we have one mind, one body, one spirit. And what I mean by that is that I I believe in taking care of the holistic woman leader. You know, you have to be good technical, you have to be good soft skills, emotional, spiritual. Yeah, you know, your health has to be in order because if your health is not in order, other things are gonna one thing will cause something else to be out of whack. But because of my faith, um I believe that I'm extremely um blessed and a lot is required of me, and I reciprocate that by everybody who comes in my path.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Yeah, I love that. I love that so much. Uh, I can relate to that. I too feel like I I tell um every anyone who will listen, I am not the most qualified person for my role. In fact, I know I'm not. There are plenty of other people out there that can do it better, do it kinder, do it whatever. But I know my my career, my life, my children's lives, my the love of my life, Michael Valentine, who I got his name. That is all God's doing. So I love that uh your faith is is the thing. Uh it's the same for me. Um I just I try show up every day and try to be the best person. We don't always succeed, because to your point, we are human, we we we struggle just like any other person. Um and I I I think I said this on one of the episodes before. The people that I that I messed up with, that I let down, they stay with me the longest because I don't want to repeat it. I don't right, you don't so um people don't always remember what you say, but they know they remember how you made them feel. Yeah, and I and Angelo, oh, those moments where I knew I didn't make them feel good, those stick with me more than the successes because I don't want to make people feel badly, and sometimes I mess up and do. So I try to keep that in the framework and be like, do better. And I always say every almost every person I've seen rise to a CEO changes at the top, in my experience, and I don't ever want to be that. I want to remember what it was like to be at the bottom, yep, and clawing your way up to the top, and having those amazing leaders who listened to you, heard you, helped you, grew you, coached you, uh, be that for somebody. So I and I know that's who you are too.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Yep, absolutely. All of that, I co-signed everything you just said, Sarah. Absolutely. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

So if someone wanted to reach out to you, Dr. Karen, how do they find you? How do they get in touch?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

So I have a place that I hang out at most of the time. You can find me everywhere, but I love, love, love LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn, it's my sandbox. If you want to find me on the playground, it's LinkedIn. I also have a legacy website, which is drinhillsprudent.com. But uh I've been around for 30 years. You can Google me, you'll find me. Just Google my name and just click on one of the things. Yeah. Yeah, I've published 43 times. So I've been around for a while. Um, yeah, reach out to me, stay connected. My community is a free community. I have a paid community too, but my free community, we add a lot of value. Um, and we have uh conferences coming up annually, Sarah.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

October, October.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

One of our speakers last year. And so this year is October 2nd and 3rd. We're back at the casino, Rivers Casino in Portsmouth, Virginia. And so we want to influence and impact. That's my goal. It's not about making a whole bunch of money anymore. I've got all the toys and trinkets and all of that stuff. It's about it's about influencing and impacting um women leaders. And so that's what we're all about. And this year, our theme is purpose-led profit-focused. And so we believe that if you follow your purpose, the profit will come. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Well, Dr. Karen, thank you so much for a fantastic conversation, as always. Um, I really admire the way you develop leaders, challenge them, and help help them step into something that they were meant to be. That's that's really great. Um, we need more like you out there. Um, and thank you for being on and sharing uh your heart with us today. I love you.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Thank you.

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My heart, A K R T. And to our to my listeners, if there's one takeaway from today, I think it's this leadership isn't about becoming someone else, it's about becoming who you were always meant to be. And until next time, lead with heart, and the rest will follow. Thank you so much for listening. I'm deeply grateful. My hope is that you leave inspired to lead with compassion, strength, and heart in your work, family, and faith. If today's episode encouraged you, share it with someone who could use a little heart in their day. And be sure to follow or subscribe wherever you listen. Until next time, lead with heart, and the rest will follow.