What Is Eschatology?

Eschatology is the study of end times, the future & what's to come. Jeff, Braydon & Joe talk through eschatology and more in this week's episode. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome to this week's episode of Field's Notes, where we take a deeper dive into sermon text, discuss matters of life and faith, and enjoy conversations around the table with fellow friends from the Fields. That's right, we're back. Fields Notes. Welcome again to a new episode. I'm here with Jeff and Braden, and you've seen our title to this. We're talking about eschatology today. Before that, I don't know, just for fun. Jeff Braden in three seconds. Scale to one to ten. How are you doing today? Braden first. Two.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Probably like uh five, six. Five or six. Somewhere in there. We had uh puking kid last night. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

We'll bring it down pretty quick. I'm sorry, Braden. Five or six. Well, now that he said that, I feel like my numbers gotta be pretty high. Yeah. I always feel like the one to ten numbers are they always ask you, what's your pain on a scale of one to ten? I'm like, well, I don't know. It hurts. Uh yeah, I I'm we're doing well. I'd probably seven or eight. Seven or eight, great. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

I'm probably an eight as well. Yeah, better than a puking kid. I'm so sorry, Braden. It's okay. Well, hey, let's talk about uh let's talk about uh our topic for this. So um, yeah, as a church right now, our our you guys, our church is preaching through revelation, uh, which is not only about the return of Christ, but the return of Christ is important, central to revelation, and um even just talks that I'm having with people in our church, myself even too, but people are are wondering and needing help, wanting help. Well, how do I think about the return of Christ? Which leads us to this podcast of eschatology, uh, which we hope is a help to you listening.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Um, Jeff Should we define eschatology just so that people would know, or is that coming?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

That was that was let's define, let's let's define a good way to start though.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

I should have looked at the script to get better. I should have looked at the script.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Whatever define eschatology. Um that leads us to our epic on eschatology. What is eschatology?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Uh eschatology is just a really fancy word for the study of last things. Uh so the study of the future, the maybe potentially the or specifically the study of the end. Um, and so you'd get end times, last things, these last days. Um, and so you're gonna have things like heaven, hell, return of Christ, millennium, um, judgment, uh, all sorts of things uh are gonna fall into these last things category.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

So we're talking about the study of last things in this. So uh maybe some maybe just intro questions for us here. Well, well, how important is eschatology, the study of last things? Are there um how do we think about it in terms of importance and uh uh weightiness between eschatology and other doctrines? Thinking about if this is something we should divide over. What are some general thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02 2:52

I wonder if you might think about do you care about the future? Uh just even that question, uh, if you think about probably we think about I care about my future in my life, yes. So we should care about the future of all things, which is kind of in some ways what we're talking about. Like that is what it's all these things that in some ways are like the Bible describes for us and yet have not yet happened yet. And so trying to understand those things, put those things together, we should certainly care. It does, it does matter uh for us. And yet, in some sense, there's you know, there is like I think your your question of is it something we should divide over? I think there there's gonna be implications that might be very significant. But I don't know that it's like, oh yeah, this is as central as do you confess Christ to be God and man and some of those things that that are gonna be core to Christianity. And yet I think there'd be help in thinking through how does that shake out? Maybe Jeff, you have some thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Yeah, well, I mean, I think it in some ways it just depends on what you're talking about within eschatology. Like, if you're talking about the last things, like as Braden said, like that's the conclusion of the book. Like, if you've ever watched a movie or read a book, and if you thought about just whopping off the last 50 pages and not reading it or watching the last 30 minutes of a movie, you'd be like, well, this movie's not very good. It'd be awful. You we need to know uh the end and and we should care about the end. There are things within eschatology, and I'd argue the most central things that I think if you don't hold you're not a Christian. If you don't think Christ is returning, if you don't think uh Christ is uh going to return to bring a sort of uh new creation and and that there's going to be a real judgment and hell and that there's gonna be heaven and the new heavens and the new earth. Um, if you don't think, I think, at least in part, that Christ's first coming has inaugurated something, it has started something. Well, I think these are really central things uh to the Christian faith. So there would certainly be our faith statement, has a statement on um eschatology. And uh you have to agree with that statement, um, you know, to be a member of our church and not because we're trying to, you know, make sure you check boxes, because this is a central truth of the Christian life that we have to hold um in order to, I think, live faithfully together as a church. So, yes, there are some things that are really central, but there's also some stuff that honestly, I feel like in our culture and in much of our world, we actually get really heated and excited and divide over the stuff that actually isn't very central. Um, and so that is part of the problem for sure in the discussion.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

I think um super helpful. Uh well, let's talk a little bit about then. I think people who are listening might people sometimes ask me, well, Joe, what what is the post-millennial view? What is the pre-millennial? Like, maybe just a help for people of uh in broad categories, because I know when you get into the nitty-gritty, you there's even differences within within these broader categories. Um, maybe just give people help, broad categories on what are the different end times views that some people might have, uh, why might they have those? Where are they getting those from? Um, yeah, and you guys even share some of because you guys are preaching revelation a certain way. You can even share how you got to your own positions and how you think through that.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Well, why don't I give a survey of the positions and then you can talk about maybe the position that you and I hold, and we'll be kind of be teaching through a little bit. You know, this would be one of those areas though I feel like I should start from to say should not probably divide us. It is not in our confession of faith. And uh, I think in our church right now, as far as I know, we have premillennial, a millennial, and post-mill. Um, and so we got the whole gamut in our church. Um, what you're talking about when you use those phrases is the millennium. And the millennium, at least primarily, is taught in Revelation chapter 20. It's this thousand-year reign of Christ. Um, and uh this reign of Christ, uh, Christ is either coming before this reign, that's the premillennial, that Christ will return before this thousand-year reign, and he will return uh to, in some ways, usher in that thousand-year reign. So that would be premillennial um that he's gonna do that. There would be a historic premill uh that would say that uh this is gonna come after seven year, after tribulation. It's gonna come that he's gonna come right prior to the millennium, and that this millennial reign is uh Christ's kingdom here on earth for all his people. The there's also a dispensational, and that's a that's a lot, a big category to dig into and to dive into that would say there are two peoples of God and two plans of God, and that the millennium is for the earthly people of God who are mostly Jewish. Um, and so this is the millennium is all the promises in the Old Testament being uh fulfilled literally in the millennium. So you Jesus is reigning from Jerusalem, the temple is rebuilt, in some ways, even the sacrificial system is um brought back. These, all of these things for a uh a really a largely Jewish millennium, and that the church is raptured or caught up to heaven prior to the seven-year tribulation. Um, and so that the church then is a the heavenly people of God. And you have these kind of two different peoples, two different plans uh through the millennium. So that's pre-mill. You got dispensational and historic. Amel is arguing that the millennium is actually right now. Um, and so that one of the problems is ah means no. Amil don't doesn't believe there's no millennium. We're not just ignoring Revelation 20. We think Revelation 20 is happening right now, that Christ is actually reigning on the throne in heaven with his people, and and that that actually has significant implications for even life on earth uh right now. Then you have post-mil, and and the belief in Amil is that Christ will come after the millennium, uh, return. Post-mill would be very similar that Christ is also going to return post after the millennium. But the millennium is an earthly millennium, um, and it is going to, most uh post-mill would hold that it will be ushered in, that the gospel and the church will eventually so uh be strengthened and rise up and and and in some sense conquer, but by the testimony of the gospel, not by force, that the the world will be largely converted and that that will usher in this reign of Christ uh for a significant amount of time uh before this final sort of battle, judgment, uh, the new heavens, new earth. Braden, you want to talk a little bit about what view we you and I hold, and then probably for the most part, how we've been teaching through Revelation.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Yeah, I think there so we hold an all-millennial position. Um that would be uh I too hold this position if people were wondering. Hey, let's include Joe, all three of us. There we go. Um, and so that's primarily how we've been teaching through the book of Revelation. In some ways, I think there's a few reasons probably we would hold that. Um I mean, certainly we could go into some more detail, but I think overall we would say it seems to fit best from our perspective with the way uh the genre and the way in which Revelation is written, both its purpose and its content and all of those sorts of things. I think it makes sense of okay, why is John writing in this these ways? What is he getting at with all these symbols and pictures and understanding prophetic literature, like all of that is really helpful uh in thinking it does help us then as we get to Revelation 20 and also just think about the whole of Revelation. That sort of perspective does orient us uh towards that. Uh, in some ways we also like probably different than than certain other views. I do think there's a a sense of which we really do believe that we are in the last days now, so we're not waiting some other kind of period in the future that that we're not really in right now. We believe that in some ways Jesus has inaugurated the last days. It seems like that's what the prophets are pointing to, and then the New Testament authors are picking up on in different in different passages outside of Revelation, and so it seems to make sense that that there is ascension which it's like we have this inaugurated uh eschatology, inaugurated last days that have already happened in part, and yet there's a fulfillment that is yet to come, uh, that we are still awaiting now. And so as then as we come to uh kind of Revelation kind of 20 and and look at that passage in light of some of these things, thinking about the fact that we're in the last days now and that we look at this whole kind of genre of literature. We got to read this a little bit differently than just kind of reading through a history book or reading through uh an epistle specifically. Like there we kind of talked, Jeff kind of did a good job talking us through this at the beginning of our series of just kind of all these uh different genres that are all kind of taking place, which which is in some ways what makes it Revelation kind of a confusing and hard book at times is is figuring out okay, what's going on here. Um, but then as we come to Revelation 20, it's it it kind of makes us uh look towards this and see a uh yes, a spiritual reign of Christ uh that that is this thousand years not being a literal many numbers in Revelation are not literal, but they're pointing towards a fullness, a completeness in different ways, or other different uh symbols and things like that. So we see this thousand-year reign as a as the reign of Christ uh over his people and over all things until the culmination of all things in kind of maybe we would say the last day or the judgment day that there will be. We we kind of have talked even throughout that there is in some ways we do see there's gonna be some sort of intensification or or finality, but we don't see that as a a sequence of events, or we don't see that as kind of brought out in certain ways, but rather we see that as the culmination, Christ will return and these things then will happen. And so that the thousand years is kind of prior to that, which is which is now kind of what Jeff explained. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

I think in the New Testament, it just seems this this seems to me to be the simplest way to read the New Testament, that the next thing that's going to happen is Christ is gonna return. Uh, not that Christ is gonna return kind of secretively and then return again after that, and then there's gonna be this long period of Christ reigning, and then there's gonna be a another battle, and evil is gonna raise up again, and then we're gonna kind like that I it seems as you're reading through the New Testament, no, no, no, then the next things that that's gonna happen is Christ is gonna come and he is going to bring his kingdom fully, finally, and forever. Um, and he's gonna judge sin and uh evil, and he's going to um resurrect, and um, and and there's going to be this new heavens and new earth. And I think the biggest question for a lot of people who would who would maybe go, wait a second, is the fact that Revelation 20, and we'll talk about this when we I think I preached that sermon, um, is that Satan is bound? And and a lot of people struggle to see that. But I I think Jesus actually says that uh in the gospels when we were going through Mark. That's actually one of the things that helped me as we were as I was preaching through Mark is wait, wait, Jesus says that he has bound the strong man. And it's very clear in that passage, the strong man uh is Satan. And and that now as we look, we think, well, you know what? What is it specifically that this binding is? Is so that he no longer can deceive the nations, um, so that the gospel can go forth. Well, that's exactly what we see is that the gospel is going forth uh to all the nations, to all peoples, and and the church is growing and strengthening. And so I I see that as evidence of um that we really are. Christ really is reigning at the right hand of God, even now in the millennium. Super helpful.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

I think as you're even balancing a great, striking a great balance of, well, this is what we believe there's other Christians we love and respect who would see some things differently in that. Um maybe like it helped us as we think about this, um, even in some practical ways. What might be some implications that would um uh Christians would live their Christian life perhaps differently based off of their end times view? Or are there not any implications um that would change what we do now based off of what we think will happen in the future?

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yeah, I I do think one thing that's uh that is pretty important. Uh so we've got people in our church that are across the spectrum, and I think you could have healthy, great, um, like solid uh understandings, living the Christian life, that sort of thing, depending on the view, like with different views. But I do think most of the time, some sort of pre-mill, I think especially dispensational pre-mill, is going to lead us to have a really negative view of um the future, um, certainly of the last days, that the world is gonna get worse and worse and worse and darker and darker and more evil. Um, and that it's sort of like I think the encouragement could be, or the response could be we just need to hunker down, get on our own, and and let the world be the world. And and we just aren't gonna do it. Or we might look and try to diagnose all these different things that are happening throughout the world and try to find out where they are this end times thing. This is Gog, this is Magog, and all this kind of stuff. Both of which I think are not very helpful. Those would be bad responses there. I think in the post-mill view, at least with some, you could have this sense of like, oh, the world's gonna get better, better, better, better, better, better, better, and this super optimistic view that the church is going to, uh, the gospel is gonna conquer all and we're gonna have this golden age. I I think well, one of the reasons I think omillennialism is helpful um is that I think there's this sort of optimistic realism uh that the church is going to be strong. We should have, I think as Christians, like the Jesus makes it really clear. Like, I like I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Like the church is not going to be stopped because Christ will not be stopped and he is king. And that oughts to give us real encouragement. And I don't know that I feel that very often uh in the Christian church, especially in the US. Um, and I think we should. But also, there's gonna be much evil and hardship. I mean, Revelation is very clear about that. Um, and and that's a real reality that we need to be aware of. Um, and and I think humbles us and that sort of thing as we move forward, so that when you know, defeat and destruction and things like that happen, we're not like I guess God was wrong. You know, it's like, no, no, no. There's going to be the way that the church will grow often is through suffering and persecution.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

So super helpful. Maybe here's a just a general question I think people might have listening. Uh, must or ought to or uh should like each individual Christian, I'm thinking of the normal people in our church ought to ought to Christians have a specific end times view. Or uh I think a lot of people might say, like, oh well, I know Christ is returning. That's what I know. Um, do you have any any thoughts on wisdom of should we do we yeah, or how how deep a dive should people do into this?

SPEAKER_00 17:43

And maybe be a question. Yeah, I love this first church I was at. There's a gentleman that came to me after I was teaching on this subject in a class, and he was like, Well, I'm pan-millennial, it'll all pan out in the end. And um, I I think there's something funny about that and and maybe even sweet about that. I think we should want to know God's word. And and I let me be very clear. I do not think that God's word holds pre-millennial, amillennial, and post-millennial. God's word teaches one of those. Like that, not all of those are true. Um, and and so we ought to want to be people who know the truth. And what God's word says and teaches is important and and right for us to know. But I think it we would all say there are things in scripture, and this would be one of them, that are more gray, uh, that are less talked about, that are less emphasized, that are more difficult. Um, and so I think it is fine in those uh areas to say, well, I want to study this, um, but I want to do so humbly. I want to do so with open hands. I think it's okay to not have a like a hardened position, you know, um, but to sort of be studying and digging in. I actually think in some ways we probably unless we have really studied it um and have uh a real like conviction, yeah, this is which I I think I'm getting towards. Um, I I think it's right to be pretty open-handed uh about it and then hold to those things that we really do uh know, and the Bible is so clear about some of those things I talked about earlier, that Christ is returning, sin will be judged, uh, we will be resurrected in Christ. There is a new heavens and new earth. Like those sorts of things are like we we the the Bible is explicitly clear on those. So that's that would be some of my encouragement.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Yeah, I think obviously I think in in not being like, man, I need to really make sure I have a position on this, and I need to make everybody kind of come to my position specifically, it does help us even with that idea of theological triage and getting at like okay, there's there's different doctrines that weigh different things kind of in in terms of okay, you gotta believe this to be a Christian, and you gotta believe this maybe to be a part of the same church. And then sometimes we can just disagree in the same church, and so that means we're probably just not I mean if if if we're always gonna be talking about the things that are on that third level where we're, hey, we're in the same church, but we disagree on these things, and that's most of what dominates our conversation. It's not really gonna help us love uh one another and be unified in some ways. And so it doesn't mean we shouldn't ever talk about those things, but it it is gonna mean that that's not gonna dominate what we're gonna talk about. It's not gonna dominate what what we're gonna make sure everyone holds to. We want to make sure that people confess Christ, that they love him, they live that out in all areas of their lives, which we have already talked about how that might shake out uh, you know, practically. And yet this is not the only way that we are to apply scripture and the only way or doctrine where we're supposed to think about how that might apply to our lives. And so there's a lot of things for us to be thinking about, talking about, growing in together, that this would not be like a large piece of the pie in that.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

I I hope we've modeled this, maybe even I pray that we've modeled this in our preaching through Revelation. I mean, we have talked about some of these things as we've made our way through Revelation, but I I think anybody who has, you know, uh been with us on Sunday mornings would very clearly say, well, most of what we've been talking about is who is Jesus and and who is God, and uh what has the Father done, what has the Father done in Christ and through Christ, and um, what is true of Jesus now, and what is our response uh to what Christ has done and who he is and where he is reigning right now. You know, those sorts, I mean, that's what we're that's the focus. Um the gospel, the good news of Jesus Christ. It is the revelation of Jesus Christ. Um, and so I just think if we miss that, man, we are we're off kilter from the emphasis of scripture. And so I think that's a good guide for us. Like, yes, these things are important, um, but we never want to miss the forest for the trees.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Super helpful. Maybe a closing thought for us here. Maybe just as we hear the word eschatology, Jeff Braden, maybe just thoughts of uh what things do you want people to have in their minds when they think about that? I think you're getting about that some when you're just talking about there at the end, but anything else you'd want to talk about in uh yeah, in line with eschatology, what you'd want our people to be thinking about when we hear that word.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Yeah, I I think I I really Want our people to think often and deeply about eschatology, about the last things. It seems to me that scripture is very clear that we should have our eyes right now on heavenly things. That, and particularly, I think that means we should have our eyes on Christ in heaven right now. And that we should know deep in our hearts that the Christ's kingdom and heaven and the new heavens, the new earth, that is going to be our future and our reality. And that's that needs to shape how we live now. Um, and so I think Christians would, I mean, I've been so helped out by Lewis, those who make the most of the next world uh actually live and change and transform this world the most. Like uh it is actually when our eyes are set on heaven that we actually do the most for this uh current world and this life. And I think that that means the last thing should be very prominent to us. I think a lot of Christians have thought eschatology is weird and crazy. And mostly they're thinking about millennial, you know, these sorts of things. And they're not recognizing that the Bible tells us a lot about death. Well, I I mean, I I can't think of few things that are more helpful for us to consider in this current culture that we're in is how the Bible talks about death and life and eternal life. Well, those are last things. Um, but we should think, we should know that. I mean, the Bible gives us such hope that uh in death and um and and such promises in the life to come that I just think, yeah, I I honestly, there's a part of me right now that's like, man, you you can't think about last things too much. Like the right last things, the the central, true last things. Um, and so I hope that's a little bit, I mean, that's what Revelation's been doing for me. Is I I mean, honestly, over the last three or four months, I am more hopeful about eternity. Um, and I am more courageous and confident in humbly in this current life. Like, there's a, there's this, like, man, we like let's go. Like, like this, Jesus is right, let's go. Um, and I hope that that's the case for us as a church that we will this thinking about the last things will actually dim our eyes to you know, much of this world and and sort of worldly things and worldliness.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Yeah, I do think that idea, um, obviously thinking about eternity and just having that shape our perspective. It's like we do give so much thought and time and attention to thinking about these 70, 80 years that we would have uh here on earth. But these 70, 80 years that we do have here are gonna have lasting impact for how we live eternity. And so we should be thinking in light of that, if that that's gonna make so much of a a difference and have so much more significance. So, you know, even a few weeks ago I brought up that illustration of like bifocals, which are coming down the road for me. And uh and uh just thinking about, yeah, just just looking up and out does make the things in front of you blurry. And that's that's actually what we're we're kind of talking about. We're thinking about, yeah, looking out into seeing all the things that God has done, looking at Christ and his reign does help us look at these things and and yeah, maybe you look down some, you're gonna notice those things, and yet you're more focused on what you see more clearly and more significantly in your vision is heavenly realities and eternity.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

If I could say one last thing from Easter, 2 Corinthians 5, if it is true that therefore anyone who is in Christ is a new creation or is just new creation, then that means part of what we're reading through Revelation as we think of the last things, is we participate in the last things. Like we are in the last days, and there is a real sense in which we are ambassadors for Christ. Like we actually, as we're reading through Revelation, this isn't some future thing that God is going to do. It is something God is doing right now, and we're participating on in that. So as we read this week of the fall of Babylon, uh, we are participating in that fall of Babylon. We are bringing about the end of Babylon by faithfully uh living under King Jesus. And so I think there's a lot of like sometimes we can think too much of like, oh, this is something in the future, way off, and it doesn't matter. No, no, no. Like now, the the New Testament tells us Christ has already come. So what we are living right now is the very mission and work of Christ. Christ is working through us now, um, in light of his final return. And and I think that's so helpful.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Well, I think this whole this whole podcast has been so helpful to me in a uh a thought way and even a thinking about our hearts too, that we we do look forward, but we look forward to Christ in that. Such I think just orientating our hearts and our minds in that. So, Jeff and Braden, thanks so much for your time in this. You listening. I hope it's been a helpful uh podcast for you. We will see you next time on Field Snoopes.