Living sacrifice

This week Rev Richard Harris is joined by special guest Anne Hand to dissect this weeks Bible readings - 

• Romans 12:1-13
• Ephesians 4:1-16 

#church #terrigal #romans #bible

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Well, hello everyone. It is another week of TUC Talks. You know the acronym? Terrible Uniting Church Talks. Um, yes, so there. Warming to the name. Um, and today I have the absolute privilege of having Saint Anne Hand here with me for a conversation today.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Hello, Anne. Hello, Richard, and thank you for having me here.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Uh, you are welcome. It's my privilege to have you around. So, Anne, I thought it was worthwhile bringing you in. Today, we are going to be talking about the readings that we looked at for Sunday the 14th. And there are two readings, and we probably just need to quickly go through them, not read them, because I know how long that takes, because I sat through that on Sunday, but just a sort of a highlights package of the first one, which is from Romans, Romans chapter 12, verses 1 to 13. And it starts off, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies, and it goes on about a whole living sacrifice there. So that's the first part about a living sacrifice pleasing and perfect for God. And then it goes on to sort of have a little chat about how we should be humble, which Paul seems to go for every time. Yes. And then he also goes on from there to sort of say, now with these spiritual gift things, use them to the best of your ability. Yes. Have a go. So that's Romans chapter 12, Richard's wildly rapid version of the scriptures. Sounds good. And then the next one is Ephesians 4, 1 to 16, which is a which it talks about the body of Christ again. And it talks about how there's a unity within the body of Christ. It also has a little bit of a thing about Jesus ascended and therefore he has to have descended. I'm going to love getting your opinion on that thought. And then he goes on to sort of say, look, we're no longer immature, but we need to sort of be grown-ups with the way that we use our gifts in the spirit. Yeah. I think that's sort of the rapid assessment. Sounds good. Excellent. Sounds good. So Anne, tell me what's your experience of spiritual gifts and that kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Wow, where do I start? Um for me, spiritual gifts are a gift from God. And uh learning about what those gifts are is a really wonderful thing to do. And also using them, as you said, um is what we need to be doing to uh not only because God gave us the gifts, but my understanding when I read this passage in Romans is it's a form of worshiping God, which I hadn't really thought about before, but it's it is a way that we can honour what God has given us.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Is there a difference between a gift and a talent? Like you know? Ah.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

That's a really good question. Um, if you look at our wonderful talented musicians in this church.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Now, is that a gift or is that a talent?

SPEAKER_02 3:54

I actually had a conversation with someone about this the other day. I don't think you were in it. No. Someone about this the other day, and we were saying that a talent, the musician was exactly what we were talking about. Yes. It's a talent when you are just playing music brilliantly. But when it becomes a God-given gift is when it is used to lead worship and when it helps ri raise people up in worship. That was one of the ways someone explained it. And I liked that analogy.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Yes, I do too. I also think that a beautiful talent like music, if you played in an orchestra and were part of that beautiful music making, I think sometimes it can be more than a talent. You may not be specifically in church worshipping God, but you can be still giving of your talent in a form of worship in what you are doing.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Because music in any of its forms can lift us to the divine, can't it? Like it's not just just because it's a pop song doesn't actually mean that it's non-religious or non- non-godly in its content.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Yeah, yeah. So I think talents, talents are, yes, there's a a huge array of talents that don't seem to be listed in our list of gifts from God.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

But I wouldn't discount them as a gift from God.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Oh, look, one of the things that I think is incredibly important when we look at all of this stuff is that the list of gifts is not comprehensive. Yeah. Like, like, so I know I sort of jokingly talk about Sharon with her pizza making being a gift, but I really believe that is a gift that she is using. And yes, Paul may never have referenced it in the scriptures, but I think it is a spiritual gift that she's exercising.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yeah, absolutely. And I and I think for many people that do what they think is everyday tasks, if they're doing it with love and with a passion, because I believe that many gifts give us a passion for something, um, then it is a gift from God. And then we use it in that way to love others, to edify others, to um, yeah, to serve others. And in doing that, you could say that the pizza making is a gift of service. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

I'm sure we could go for another title rather than pizza making, but I'm sure God would like it being pizza of the mic. I'm sure. Yeah, yeah. Um which which probably means that sometimes it comes to the attitude that we work it with as well, doesn't it? Like, yeah. And I suppose that's comes back to the start of the Romans passage where it talks about us being a living sacrifice. Yes, yeah. Um I I was saying in my sermon on Sunday that I really think I needed to work on reinterpreting the concept of a living sacrifice, because a sacrifice in the Old Testament sacrificial system, it was a death, and and and there was not there wasn't much hope for the pigeon. You know what I mean? Like becoming a living sacrifice. I hope that doesn't mean that I end up like the pigeon, you know, that because in the sacrificial system they would take a pigeon and they would offer it to God and it would be killed as an offering. Yeah. But to become a living sacrifice, what did I think I needed to reinterpret the concept of what was coming there for it to help me?

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Sure, yeah. One of the things I thought of when you were talking on Sunday was for me, a living sacrifice is dying to self. So you give up what we you you know, you die to what is your own um your own needs and your own um sometimes your thoughts and the way you do things, and you give give it back to God. So you are well basically what Christ did on the cross, you know, yeah, that ultimate sacrifice of dying. We don't have to physically die, but we do have to die to our our human self and to then take on what God has given us through the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

And it doesn't mean that there's a loss for us in that. Like one of the things I remember someone doing a commentary once on Billy Graham when he came to Australia on his last trip. They interviewed him on the radio and said, Well, you know, tell us what you're doing, you know. When you're when you're saying that people become a Christian, what what happens for them? And when they go to heaven, what happens? And Billy Graham said, Well, the scriptures tell us that there's a lot of good work for us to do in heaven. For Billy, that was sort of saying, you know, there's a lot for us to offer and do, but for the culture of Australia at the time, the concept of oh no, there's work in heaven, it didn't really wasn't quite what I thought heaven would be like. That's right. And I think we need to actually help people understand that dying to self is not actually giving up. We almost assume that it means giving up the good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Yeah, no, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

So we we when we die to self, it it's always got to be some kind of sufferance or struggle or trial or hardship, and that's not what it's meaning.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For most of us, I mean, some people do, you know, pack up all their earthly goods and head on off to the wilds of Africa. Um, we do that for two weeks at a time, but we come back home again.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

But for some people, that is giving up a whole lot of things. But for most people, it's recognizing what we do have and and also saying, well, I want to do what I have, use what I have for God.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

And and I think for each different person, it brings joy in different ways. Like for you in doing those short-term mission trips, dying to self or becoming a living sacrifice, there's great joy. I when I see any of the people that go on those mission trips from our church, there's a great joy in going and experience. Yeah. I've talked to a few Catholic priests, and like for them, they take a vow of celibacy, of poverty, of service. And that all sounds a bit hard, but for them, there's great joy in that. They actually see a sense of purpose and hope and life. Yes. It might not be my kind of gift.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

That's right, yeah. And then and I think that's one of the things, isn't it? It's different for different people. And it's the same as the spiritual gifts. We, you know, talked about different gifts for different people. Um, and I think that what we give up or don't give up is is very much for that person. We can't tell someone else to do exactly what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

And therefore becoming a living sacrifice will mean something different for me and for you and for each member. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Yeah.

unknown 11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Same, same as the gifts. And and you alluded to the different types of gifts. And going back to what you preached about the Sunday prior was about doing things in love. Yes. And I think that ties in also with the way that we use our gifts is to do it in love, not as a chore. It's like, oh, I've got this gift of you know, hospitality, I better invite someone around. And it's like, well, if if I'm not passionate about it or I'm not excited about it, then is it really a gift or is it something I've been told I should do? Yeah, yes, yes. Doesn't mean you don't do it. Yeah, yeah. But I think there's got to be that love and that excitement and that passion.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Yeah. And it's got to be, there's got to be a joy in doing it. I when I was a young person, I remember we were cooking meals for a program, and they invited everyone in our church to cook a meal for these people. You know, they were people that were coming from all around Australia to an event. And um I can remember one lady going, Oh, look, I know I was meant to, but I thought in the end, oh, I'll save my mints.

unknown 12:40

Like, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Sounds lovely. At the time I thought, oh, it's a tad on the mean-spirited side, but it she had gifts in other places. That's right. She can save her mints on that one.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

So the rest of our Romans passage, just trying to think. So after the after that sort of become a living living sacrifice, it then goes on to sort of talk about how we should sort of don't copy the behavior of the world, but let God transform us. And I suppose we've been talking about that transformation in this in that moment just there, haven't we?

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Yeah. And then it sort of goes on in there to sort of talk about that we all have different gifts and we should use them to the best of our ability. That's one of the things that I think was really important here is that when we get gifts, and I sort of was playing with this in each of our services, actually, that when we think of something as a spiritual gift, it almost raises it to a point, well, well, this is me working on behalf of God, therefore, I am God at this moment. Therefore, what I say or what I do is beyond doubt or beyond question. And for me, one of the things that I think is the best way I can describe it is I I've been set aside for when they ordain the minister in the United Church, I'm ordained to the ministry of word and sacrament. That for me is what I was ordained into, which means preaching and administering the sacraments. And for being for word and sacrament, preaching is a part of the gift that comes with that. Like, you know, you you're meant to be you're meant to learn and grow and encourage the skill of preaching. I can use that, I can use that badly. I I can pump up my own ego with preaching, or I can manipulate a group of people with preaching, or I can control the narrative with preaching. I can use preaching badly, yeah. Or I can use it for good. And if I'm actually if we're saying that that is a gift, the gift can be used badly or it can be used well. And I think Paul here is saying, when you've got a gift, use it well.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Yeah, yeah. I think that's where he also talks about the humility, isn't it? Yes. You know, be be humble in what God has given you and use it in love and use it for for others. Yeah. Not for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

Because I am I I mentioned this at all three services, but for me it was such an important feature that as we've been going through the spiritual gifts, every time Paul mentions it in one of his readings, the spiritual gifts, he almost automatically talks about make sure you exercise it with humility.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Make sure you exercise it with love, make sure you exercise it. You know, he's he's always emphasizing that. And I think it's sometimes because we actually just get a bit excited because we're doing something well, and therefore we become a bit overwhelmed with ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Yes, yes. And I think when others encourage you, which again in itself is a gift, yeah, um, you can almost take that and pump yourself up a little bit as well. But then you can also um go to the other extreme and say, oh no, no, you know, this is not me, this is God.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

And there's there's that middle ground somewhere of accepting that someone else is encouraging you, but also allowing you to to acknowledge that that it's a gift from God. Um, so yeah, I think there is a sometimes that difficult. Fine balance balance.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Yeah, like acknowledging that this is a gift from God, but not getting swept away with it.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is a really fine balance. It is, it is.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

But it's it's one I think that we can learn together, and I think that's where you need other people around you as well to uh help you discover your gifts and then help you, once you have discovered your gift, to stay in that place of humility and love.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Yes, I I think one of the things that's really, and that's probably where that body of Christ image becomes so important because we need to be grounded in a community as we exercise these gifts. Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, otherwise those sort of controls that are there are missing.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Yeah, so we need to actually have our community that surrounds us to help us with those controls.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Yeah, yeah, that's true, yeah. Which was that second reading about yeah, the body of Christ and how important that is.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Yeah, look, Paul, I was it's really interesting. I've been looking more and more every time I do a reading in the New Testament, particularly in some of the white writings that are appalled writings, he really loves that image of the body. It just is a constant theme that he pulls up again and again and again.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Yeah, yeah. I was I'm not quite sure. I'm jumping ahead of you here, but that where he talks about one body and one spirit, like we talk about one body a lot, is saying, you know, we are one body in Christ and all parts are important. But for me, it's also like there is one spirit, there's not different size spirits for different people. And one of the things I love the way that Terigal here encourages children because there's no child-size Holy Spirit, it's it's the one spirit, and everybody, whether you're a child, whether you have different abilities, whether you're 99, it is the one spirit, and you have that ability to use that spirit um in by utilizing your gifts, and we should never put aside um a child that may have a have a what we would think is a grown-up gift. Yes. Because we should never underestimate what the Holy Spirit can do through different people, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Yeah, and and actually nurturing our kids in in leading us in worship, not and it's not a spectacle in worship, like it, yeah, it's not about it's not about it's not about us feeling good because we're doing it, it's about them actually leading us. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Um can I tell a little story?

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Yes, please.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Um going on these um mission trips with Impact Nations, um we recently a few years went ago, went to the Philippines where we had a lot of young people um on the team with us. The youngest we had were 10-year-olds. Yeah. And when we sent those 10-year-olds out to the villages to not only give out food but to pray for people, and they came back so excited because they saw people being healed through through this through them, you know, God had given them that gift of of healing at that time. And it's a real encouragement to see the excitement of a 10-year-old being able to heal someone that we would possibly say, well, you're only a child, you just come and watch what the adults do. But no, it's about you two can this is the Holy Spirit that is going to be doing this through you. Yeah, um, and I think that's that's where we can get really excited with with training our young people, not nurturing our young people and mentoring our young people into um the gifts of the spirit.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

And seeing the gift that they have at that point in time, yeah. Because I I think the our gifts change and vary over time, don't they? Absolutely. At different stages of our lives, we our different attributes or different gifts seem to flourish.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Very much so, and and also I the the Holy Spirit can also give us a gift for a moment. Yeah. And we've we've all probably come across that, and I certainly have in my travels where praying for someone, and I suddenly get the idea that I need to say something that I would not think of to this person, whether it's uh acknowledging that there is something in their life I need to speak into, and I don't know the person, and it's like that that word of knowledge, which is a gift, which I don't I wouldn't necessarily use every day, or I don't use a lot. And it certainly hasn't come up on my list of gifts that I did with this questionnaire recently. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

But it's, I think God gives us gifts at any time. And I think for me, it's like just because you have a list of gifts that you now see, well, these are my gifts, there's a whole lot of other things that the spirit will give you at certain times in your life.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Yes. And in a sense, exploring our spiritual gifts should not diminish us into one set of gifts. That's right. Yeah. It should actually help us be more expansive about God equips us to do stuff, isn't this exciting? Yeah. Yeah. Not diminishes us into, well, I have the gift of hospitality, so that's what I should do.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Yeah, that's right. And it's like, I'll do that to the day I die, and that's because that's what I have to do. And it's like, well, you know, gifts do change as well over time.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

And I think they have to, because again, with with a child, they have passion and energy and excitement. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Um, and sometimes are impetuous. And and then, but older people sometimes have the capacity to slow down and think and have a bit of wisdom. That's right. Yeah. You know, in the Old Testament, I think it talks about um dream dreams and see visions, you know. Our old old men to dream dreams or old people to dream dreams and the young people to see visions.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Yeah, but it's also you have different aspects of your life where you have different time to do things. Yeah. So you may have a passion for something, but you just don't have the time to put into it. Yes. But then as time goes on and you think, oh, I've still got that passion, but I and I now have more time to spend with that. So, you know, I think, you know, that's part of life, and I think we need to accept our humanity and not think, Oh, I've been given this gift, but I don't have time to put into it. That's okay. You will have time at some stage.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Oh, I'm looking forward to that moment. It will come, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

You'll have time to do more fishing, don't worry.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

How is there any more on the Romans passage before we look at the Ephesians one?

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Um, I don't think so. I think we've covered uh most of what I got out of that.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

I I do like that when we look at the Ephesians passage, halfway through Ephesians, Paul goes, Therefore, I a prisoner for serving the Lord. Paul, I reckon I do wonder sometimes whether God just put Paul in prison to stop him from running around so he could write a few of the letters. Yeah. You know, you might need a bit of time here to rest, Paul.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Yeah, yeah. Stop being so busy and and just rest. Yeah. Or at least think and write.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Yeah. Um, he does, he goes on with that be humble and gentle and patient. But he also says make allowances for each other's faults because of your love. It's really interesting he talks about allowances for others' faults, isn't it? Like I I do wonder whether sometimes we fail to acknowledge each other's foibles.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

And and make allowances for it. You're either you're either a good person or you're not a good person, or you're this or that.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

But we are still human.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

We are human.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Very much so. And yeah, and God understands that, therefore, we need to understand that as well.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Yeah. Now, look, in the Ephesians passage, one of the things that Paul gets very into, I didn't mention it at all on Sunday, but he's talking about how Jesus ascended and therefore he had to descend. I I found it interesting. Paul's Paul is basically saying Jesus had to step into the grubbiness of our world so that he could be lifted up back up into God's world, like into god not God's world, but godliness. Like he had to actually step into the grime of existence to lift himself to be lifted up, and that we need to be lifted up with Christ. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

It's yeah, it's an it's an interesting sort of part of that chapter where he's suddenly changed from being the body of Christ into now we're talking about you know, God ascending and descending. Yeah. But I think for me there's a a part of the descending into our world so that he could walk the walk and have that suffering with us so that his Christ is then more relatable than a very distant God.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Yes. Rather than God who sits in heaven perfectly looking at us, yes, Jesus walked the grime of who we are.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Yes, yes. He came into the mud and the grime with us. Yeah. Um, and that's one of the things that he taught us to do is also to go to sit with people when they are in that that pit of despair and things, because that's what Christ did, and that's what Christ showed us to do.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

And sometimes I explain to people that when we're reading Paul, often we need to remember he's got a scribe over there writing down. And he's I always try and say, look, have this image of a man that's in a prison cell walking up and down, talking try as he's writing this letter. Like it sometimes it's a stream of consciousness that Paul is doing, and not always is that stream of consciousness perfectly connected, like you know, he's yeah, I'm talking about the body, I'm talking about the body, because Jesus needed to come down to us, and now I'm gonna talk about him ascending and descending, and you know, and he's sort of he's not always constructing the perfectly coherent train of thought. Sometimes he is a bit all over the shop.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Yeah, yeah. Well, he was writing to churches at that time, you know, and we have to remember that to put it back into context, even though it's still very relevant for us, he was still writing to the people around at that time.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

He was writing to the church in Ephesus. And sometimes he's actually writing to a specific situation. Yes, yeah. Because, you know, there are people that are becoming a bit arrogant or rude, and I need to remind them that when they use their gifts, that's not what they do.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Yes, yeah, and remind people that uh that every part of the church is important. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

It's a bit like, you know, that when it when it says women be quiet in church, and I don't know where that there is a passage that Paul says that he more or less could have said, Ethne and Lois. Ethni and Lois, you've been talking in the middle of the worship services. Could you stop, please?

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Yeah. There's also part of Paul, I think, that is um he's he's saying something, and then it's almost like, and you're telling women to be quiet? No, you know, he's almost talking to himself and and imagining that conversation.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Yes, you're almost like you're looking into his head a little bit sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

So yeah, I think we gotta I've I've come to respect Paul a lot more than I used to.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

I used to did that, I used to think a little bit about how could you say those sort of things? And now I understand a little bit more about it. I'm sure you would have never been upset before.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

No, not at all. Yeah, and look, you know, and him talking about being patient and loving. I sometimes wonder if he's actually it's like a mantra. I need to be patient. Yes, I need to be loving, I need to tell everyone else to be patient and loving as well. Um so now he he goes on. Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church. Apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers. Um, their responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and to build up the church, the body of Christ. In a number of spots, Paul starts to give uh like a list of here's some of the gifts. I think we mentioned it earlier, but it's not the comprehensive list.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

No, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

We yeah. But I think the motivation is the important thing here to build up the church.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Yes, and I think um for me it's also if you just took those few gifts and thought, well, I don't have any, I'm not an apostle, I'm not a prophet, I'm not an evangelist, then it's like where do I fit in? But it's also you could say that they are some some of the important gifts that start a church, build up a church, but everybody else has a gift as well. And there's all those other ones, like you know, your helps and your um discipleship and uh all the other gifts, everything that we do for the body of Christ is a gift from God. But we also have ones that are uh have these they're not special as in making people special, but they're they're ones that really do edify and build up the church along with other people.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

And everyone like and you don't have the total package in one person, you know. Some people are really good at starting a church, yes, but they are shocking at maintaining it. Yes, um, you know, and and if we get one of those people, they're still really important because let's face it, some people are really good at maintaining a church, but shocking is starting one. Yeah. Um and and I think it's we need to try and work out what gifts we have and how they work. We had elders last night. Um, so we're recording this on Tuesday, and Elders was on Monday night. And one of the things that we had with elders, we're about to re-embark on a five-year mission plan for our church. Um, and Alicia Hawkins, that's her skill set through and through that, because that's what she does with work, and so she is starting to guide the elders through a mission planning process. Um you wouldn't get me to do that. Um Me neither.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

No, you wouldn't but I'm very glad we have people that do that.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

That's right, and therefore we have to use the gifts of the different people. Yes, yeah, we need to find them and and bring them up. And like she is brilliant at leading that kind of process. Yeah. And we need to nurture that and say, keep up the good work.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And that's where, as a as a group of people, as a body of Christ, if you want to use that word, um, that's where our encouragement comes in and recognising the different gifts that different people have.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Yeah. Now, and are there any other things that you wanted to bring up in this?

SPEAKER_00 33:33

The only other thing I thought of when we talked about the body of Christ and the different aspects of the different gifts coming together to make the church. I also look at that as bigger than a particular church that we might attend.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

You're talking about Church Catholic or Church Universal.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

With a small c. Yes. Yes. Um, because we might go through all the gifts that everybody has in this church and think, oh, there's something missing, therefore, you know, we don't have it all. I don't I don't personally believe that we have to necessarily have every gift covered by this church, um, although God will equip us to do what it is that God has given us to do. Yes. So we might not necessarily need somebody that has a gift of uh prophecy or interpreting tongues or that sort of thing, because that's not something that God has given our church to be um in involved with as much. But when you look at the broader churches around us, there are going to be people with those gifts that make us make the bigger church, you know, um a little bit hard to know what I'm trying to say here, but no, just I for me I think that means things like Gosford Uniting Church does a meals program on a Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

We don't do a meals program on a Sunday, but we need to support them and we might offer to help them with that mission.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

You know, that's their gift. Ours might be to support them and help them.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

That's right. Yeah. And we have this amazing Kids' Holiday Club coming up, which is a gift that God has given us for this church. And um, you know, we we might not expect Gosford Uniting to do that sort of thing. Yeah. Where they have other things. And I think we need to sometimes think a little bit outside our own little box of this is this is our church and this is all we need to worry about, but just to look a little bit bigger than that. But no, I you know, I think it's exciting when you talk about spiritual gifts and trying to help people discover what is their gift and how they can use it. Um, and I think that's that in itself is is helping to build this church and what God has given the people in this church to do.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Exploring someone's gift and talent, yeah, and and talent that could be a gift. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and all of those bits.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Yeah. Are there any other things that you had been given the gift of insight for?

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Um, not that I can think of off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

No. So thank you. No, thank you. Like we've only got another week or so to go with this spiritual gifts one, which reminds me to tell people if you have a big question, if you've got sort of one of those wonderings of what you would encourage us to think about, or you want me to explore in a sermon, or I'm going on holidays in the middle of this, or for me to wuss out and find someone else to explore in a sermon. Um, send, send, either email us with a big question or put a note in the box in the foyer, because we really do want to have see what we need to explore in those big questions.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

The last series was really good, so I'm sure we'll get some good questions and some good answers if identifying stuff to work through.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Because sometimes it's sometimes some of those big questions are really core to who we are. Yeah, absolutely. So it's a there's sometimes they're really challenging. Um, but yes. Good luck with that. Thank you. Um depends. I'm on holidays, I might get you to do a sermon. Nope, that's not my gift. And so, yeah, so that's one thing. The other thing is to note this Saturday, so Saturday the 20th is the spiritual gifts workshop. Um if you if you haven't registered and you want to register, you can always still register up to the last minute. We'd love you to come along. And then Saturday the 27th is repair. Yep. Um, we've been mentioning it a bit lately. If you are someone that wants to join in in the leadership of that, you don't need to be able to repair stuff. You might just need to help cook pizzas or just help talk with people or facilitate things or yeah, lots of things. There's a whole variety, or you might want to be learn how to sharpen knives and work that work that one. But um, yeah, please let us know. I think that's the bulk of the holiday kids club. Holiday kids club, yep. The more leaders, the better. Like so this is normally one of our smaller ones, but still, even though last time we had 85 kids. Yeah, no, it's exciting. So, yeah, it would be great if people want to help out with that. I think those are the key things around the life of the church. Um we're talking more and more about the coffee and cars coming up on Sunday, the 27th, I think it is, or 24th, the last Sunday in June. Oh, in July. July, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

July, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Yeah, yeah. No, I'll get there eventually. Yeah. Last Sunday in July. Um, I think that is everything.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

So thank you. Ann Hand, thank you so much for joining us. And um, for everyone else, we hope you can join us for worship on Sunday. If not, I'll talk at you with someone else next week on TUC Talks.