Episode 15 | Depression, Trauma, and the Nervous System: The Missing Piece in Healing

Depression is often treated as something that is wrong with us.

 But what if that framing is part of what keeps us stuck in depression?

In this episode, I explore depression through a trauma-informed and nervous system lens and why understanding it purely through symptoms or serotonin imbalance narratives limits the way we approach healing. 

Rather than asking “what’s wrong with you and you are depressed?”, this episode invites a different question:

What happened to you, and how did your nervous system adapt to survive?

I share why this topic is deeply personal to me, and how that experience shaped the way I understand depression.

I talk about:

The difference between a pathologizing model and a trauma-informed approach to depression

Why depression is often a state of freeze and/or shutdown that are self-protective strategies after trauma

The unprocessed emotions that live beneath depression

Why we first need to embody depression to heal from it, and what this means

What working with depression somatically and emotionally looks like

The benefits of exploring depression through archetypes

A trauma-informed approach to depression is the foundation of my 12-week program, The Chrysalis.

The Chrysalis is not about fixing depression or pushing you out of it

It’s about understanding it, working with it slowly, and gradually building the capacity your nervous system needs to move through it and welcome aliveness back into your body and life.

Inside the program, we explore depression through somatic, emotional, and deeper soul, archetypal work, and the structure is intentional.

Across 12 weeks, we move through three cycles of:

• immersive mini-retreats 
• integration calls 
• and Q&A sessions 

This allows the work to unfold with pacing, depth, and actual integration, not just insight.

If you’ve been trying to “fix” your depression and it hasn’t worked, this episode (and this work) will resonate. 

The Chrysalis begins on April 23 and runs only once a year.

You can find all the details and join via the link here https://courses.effiekli.com/the-chrysalis

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Get in touch with us www.effiekli.com/contact

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Trauma Educator podcast. Today we're going to talk about depression. Today we're going to talk about depression because very soon I will start with some participants, my program The Chrysalis. It's a program dedicated to depression that I ran for the first time last year. And I was surprised, even myself, after I ran the program and I was reflecting on what happened there. Because by bringing together specific ingredients and first time addressing specifically depression through the lens of trauma and the nervous system in my work, I saw in front of me an experience of people coming together that maybe I haven't experienced in any other context within my group programs. And that's why I wanted to talk to you. Depression is one of the most important topics I want to keep talking about. And there's a personal reason, and that personal reason is my mother. For those of you who follow my work for some time, my mother took her own life when I was 10. And as you can imagine, at the time, and I lived in Greece, the mental health stigma was huge, even worse than it is today. And when something like this happened at the time, everyone would numb because we didn't have the tools and support to respond to what was happening. Now, of course, I was a child, but I'm not only talking about me, I'm talking also about the adults around me, which of course impacted me because if they were numb and frozen and had no idea how to deal with this tragic situation, what happened with me, I remained without support in this very difficult time of my life. Now, the reason I wanted to create a program about depression specifically is because I believe that the way culturally we approach depression is problematic. And it keeps a lot of people stuck, feeling shame about themselves, feeling shame about this, I would say, normal experience, given the context of their lives and lived experiences, and also keeps them without proper support. A question I asked myself before I created the Chrysalis last year was this What kind of support do I believe my mom before she made the decision to take her own life and actually act on it? What kind of support would she benefit from so that this feeling that I have to die in order to stop the pain would go away, would not be there anymore. Or even if it was there, it would be tolerable and it would be questionable, and the activation in the nervous system would not be that high, so that she would need to do something like this to find relief. And as I was coming back to this question again and again in the weeks or maybe even months before I decided to open doors to the chrysalis, and I was very clear about what I wanted to create within that container, I kept coming back to this different approach that I feel people are in need of. People who experience depression are in need of. And I'm talking about the trauma-informed care approach. Because right now in our culture, the way depression is treated and approached is mostly through a pathologizing lens, through a lens that convinces people that depression is something they must fix as soon as possible, and also is implied that depression is a sign that there's something wrong with them. Now, the language that is used in the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, to describe depression, is language that I would say is very different to the language that helping professionals who are trained in trauma in the nervous system use. The DSM uses language that is shaming, I would say, that is um reducing, that is seeing symptoms and expressions of the body out of context. And it uses words like inappropriate or excessive without asking what happened maybe to that person, to that nervous system. So now they're lacking energy, so now they're feeling guilty, so now they're feeling worthless. And I have a problem with that because this kind of framing keeps people stuck, especially in depression. Because in depression, worthlessness and shame, and having a very negative sense of self, those things are hallmarks. This pathologizing approach can make you feel like you're the problem. Sometimes when people discover my work, they're saying to me, it's the first time in my life that I'm sitting opposite someone who makes me feel like I'm a normal human being, and there's nothing wrong with me. And I guess people feel this way because that's how I see them. And that's how I see them because that's how they are, that's who they are. And even when someone is experiencing depression and they are deep in depression, and they have a hard time finding any motivation to do the things that they used to do, they have a hard time staying functional, get out of bed, or even connect with the people that they truly love. I don't see them as defective. And someone who is a truly trauma-informed practitioner and helping professional would see them the same way as a normal human being who is having a human experience. Now, I'm not saying this to romanticize depression, to make it sound like it's something easy, because it's not. We need support systems around us, especially in depression, that don't freak out when they see us in a depressed state. Because guess what happens? We experience depression, and then we see a professional whose approach comes more from this uh pathologizing, overly medicalized model. And we sit in front of them and we're explaining that we're having very low energy and we don't want to do anything, we even struggle to reply to a text message. We used to love doing XYZ, and now we don't want to do those things anymore. We cannot find joy in anything, and we see ourselves as broken, as there's something really wrong with us. And then that person goes straight into a fixing mode. We need to get rid of this very quickly, whether it's through appeal or whether it's through reframing your thoughts and things like that. Now, nothing wrong with those things, and everything has its place. Okay, it's very important. What I'm not saying here is if you're in medication, that you shouldn't take medication. I'm not saying this here, and I'm very clear about this. Sometimes medication has its place, and I also took medication, and I mentioned this several times in the past. I took it for about 16 months. Um, I think just before COVID, and um it was not for depression, it was for anxiety, and it was helpful, right? It was helpful, but it didn't heal what I thought was going to heal. I was not informed about what these types of medication can and can do, which is a completely different topic, and I'm not going to go into this right now, but I just want to emphasize that if you're on medication right now, good for you that you've made that decision. And I hope that it feels supportive, it is supportive, and there's nothing wrong with that. But what I'm trying to say is that when we go into a mode as a culture of trying to fix depression as fast as possible, first of all, most of the times depression, even if it goes away, will certainly come back through that approach. And second, we are missing out on a very significant opportunity to look at things inside of us that might help us not just actually heal from depression and trauma, but live a better life. Because depression is a form of communication through our nervous system. And this is something that I keep repeating to the participants of the chrysalis. This is something that is the foundation of my work and trauma-informed care. If you want to tell between an approach that is overly medicalized and pathologizing versus trauma-informed care, in the first case, you're going to be made to feel like the problem. One way or another, through the language used, through the pacing, through the need to stop feeling depressed as soon as possible, through not asking questions about your past lived experience. One way or another, you're going to feel more like you are the problem in that situation. Whereas in trauma-informed care, we look at context. We don't just see low energy and lack of motivation and feelings of guilt and any other symptom that is included in the DSM to diagnose depression in isolation. We look at that expression of the body, of the unconscious of the nervous system, and try to understand what must have happened for this nervous system to get to that place today. So there's nothing about what's wrong with you, and there's a lot about what happened to you. But not from a place of I want you to feel like a victim, because this is something that people can sense and I can sense. When someone is asking me what happened to you, and they feel sorry for me in a way that they see me as weak or as a victim or less than, I'm gonna feel this, and this again won't feel good either. But from a place of true compassion and true curiosity, where two people sit opposite each other, and the person who experienced depression is seen through their humanity. This sounds so radical in our culture, but it shouldn't be. And that's what drives me crazy sometimes. When I keep working with people who have experienced depression and they have a history of complex trauma, whether they knew it or not, and they realize it later on, and they're telling me that sometimes the depression was mocked, or they were told to just move on and forget about what happened in their childhood, and their childhood is irrelevant, or all sorts of things that did not make any difference whatsoever in that person's well-being. The reason I'm so passionate about depression and a trauma-informed care towards it is because I truly believe that if my mom at the time had access to the understanding and the tools and the processes that we now have, very likely would be here with us today. But unfortunately, this didn't happen. And I believe, of course, the same about so many people who believe that the only way out of pain is to end their lives, who act on it, or to people who live in depression for years or even decades, and they've been made to believe that, well, maybe that's your brain, maybe that's your serotonin imbalance. You know, there's not much we can do. And by the way, talking about serotonin imbalance here, it's important to talk about this as well because I think there's so much misunderstanding about depression, and I can actually not just put out an episode, but I can do a whole series of episodes on depression. I can write books on depression. But the point is, people generally tend to believe that depression is a result of a serotonin imbalance in the brain. And of course, this is not an accident. This is something that one way or another was spread by pharmaceuticals for very obvious reasons. And what happened a few years ago, the University of College London did a massive review of the pre-existing scientific literature on depression and any links related to esterotonin imbalance. And after reviewing all this research from decades and thousands and thousands of evidence, what they actually found out is that there's no link between depression and a lack of serotonin in the brain. Which is interesting because at the same time they found out that 90% of the British public believed that depression is a result of serotonin imbalance. Isn't this fascinating? In the scientific literature out there, there's no sufficient evidence over the years proving that serotonin imbalance is the reason for depression. However, most people believe that this is the reason. Now, what I'm not saying is that when we experience depression, that there's no imbalance whatsoever in our brain, in our nervous system. If that was the case, then depression would not be there. What I'm trying to say is that the story we've been told so persuasively, but also so sadly, in a way that most people believe that this was the case, is not true. There's no science behind it to back it. And the reason that's important is because if I tell myself that my depression is just a result of fasterotonin imbalance, so simple, then I bring my biochemistry for depression. So I'm the problem here. When this happens, I overfocus on this oversimplified answer, and I'm not looking into other factors that might have actually contributed to my experience of depression today. And of course, I might be way more willing to receive medication because if the doctor in front of me says, well, your depression is a result of serotonin imbalance, without ever mentioning that there's no scientific evidence to back it, of course, you're gonna be ready to receive the medication because you want relief. They're telling you, okay, so serotonin balance, that's what is going on, and we have this medication that can actually fix that. Well, problem solved. But don't ever look at your history, don't ever question the cultural, social conditioning and circumstances right now your nervous system is experiencing every day. Just focus disproportionately on your brain's chemistry, try to fix that without making any other change in your life, and that's all you need to do. And that's how we end up not seeing the forest for the trees. In trauma-informed care, we see everything within context, every symptom, every expression of the nervous system is seen through what happened to you, what conditions was your nervous system developed within? What circumstances did you need to marinate in for too long and they were too much and too overwhelming for your body to sustain over time? Because from a trauma perspective, and through the lens of the nervous system, depression comes with freeze, or sometimes it comes with collapse, or sometimes it comes with both. And that's why we feel lazy and we call ourselves lazy and we procrastinate and we can't do the things we used to do with so much ease in the past. Being functional is not something we can do anymore, but it's not because of a serotonin imbalance, it's often when there's a history of trauma because the body had no other way to find relief from too much overwhelm, too much chronic stress that it had to sustain over the years. And although our culture is encouraging us to try to fix uh depression as soon as possible and to get back to being functional fast, which of course makes sense. We have bills to pay, look after other people around us, all these kinds of things are important. I'm not undermining them. However, the systems around us are not made in such a way that are supportive for those who are in pain, for those who are overwhelmed, for those who are burnt out for whatever reason. Those systems are made to numb us, numb those very normal expressions of our nervous system so we get back to functionality as soon as possible. But inside the chrysalis, my goal was to create the exact opposite of experience to what is happening in our culture, to what is available in our culture, and that is to create space for depression to become embodied. Now, someone might hear this and say, What do you mean depression to become embodied? Does this mean that depression will follow me for the rest of my life? No, I'm not saying this. What I'm saying is that in order for depression to soften or to even subside, the nervous system needs to start experiencing already some form of safety in the state of depression. Which sounds like a paradox, and it is a paradox, but in order for the nervous system, To start moving away from the stuckness of shutdown or freeze needs to start feeling relatively safe in what is happening now, in its current experience now. And if depression is the current experience, then yes, we need to find ways to feel safe enough, relatively safe in the state of depression. And in that case, depression being embodied means that as the nervous system starts gradually feeling safe and not seeing its own state as a threat and starts gradually relaxing, softening in what is present right now, in that depressed state now, and we start feeling the experience of depression, not just through our minds, because when we experience depression, mostly we experience our thoughts, our looping thoughts that are might be saying to us, there's something wrong with you, life is hopeless, there's no way out of this, there's no glimpse of things getting better in any way, and also we experience a lack of motivation, and then on top of that, we shame ourselves, we judge ourselves for that, even though, again, this is also an adaptation. We want to do the opposite. We want instead of only focusing on the thoughts, we want to start focusing on the felt experience of the body, not our thought processes, but the felt experience of our body. How is depression feeling in our body? This low energy, this lack of motivation, this uh guilt, this excessive quote unquote worthlessness, where do they reside in our body? And how can we create conditions for us to start noticing those experiences while also feeling supported, not just mentally, but actually viscerally in our nervous system, so that we start with very slow pacing to metabolize what is going on in our nervous system, because depression is not a state where we can metabolize emotions, is a state where a lot of trauma memories and unprocessed emotions sit beneath. When depression gradually becomes embodied, we create this capacity to be present with what is happening right now in the here and now, and as a result of that softening in the nervous system, we're able to get in touch with the nuances of our feelings, which are completely lost when we are lost in our thoughts. But the nuances of our feelings are so important because they point to deeper emotions that haven't been metabolized. For example, let's say we wake up one day and we find it very hard to leave our bed and we stay stuck in our bed, or we are able to leave our bed eventually, but those shame-based thoughts follow us throughout the day. So as a result, everything is slower. There's no joy, there's no hope, there's no motivation, there's no excitement, just a sense of numbness. And those thoughts are looping, and we see everything through that depressed state. So no matter what happens, it feels threatening to our nervous system. Very normal, because we perceive and interpret things based on the state of our nervous system. So, of course, if we're in freeze or we are in shutdown, something small might be happening and might feel extremely threatening to our nervous system, however, deep down there is fear, or there is grief, or there is anger. But because we're so caught up in our thoughts, and in the same looping processes that keep us stuck, nothing is moving. The stuckness, nothing is moving in depression, the stuckness, we are not in touch with those nuances, small slithers of emotion that might be present. Because they are present, we just don't know they're there. And sometimes when we know that they're there, we don't know what to do with them, because we already feel we're withdrawing from life, that even those emotions are not enough, their immobilizing energy, their life force energy is not enough to stir anything within us. Because, yes, those emotions like grief, I mentioned, anger and fear come with life force energy, they're important, but in depression, that's why we feel numb. Because even those unpleasant emotions are not as mobilizing as they're supposed to be to create this movement in our nervous system and allow the life force energy to come back online. That's why inside the chrysalis, the big focus is on supporting the nervous system to feel relatively safe so that we start working very slowly, very gradually with those nuanced and metabolized emotions that sit beneath depression. Those of you joining will be guided through practices that specifically focus on fear, on grief, on shame, on anger, on despair, on activating compassion and curiosity so that the nervous system is able to hold those unpleasant emotions, uncomfortable emotions. Because we're not just creating conditions for those emotions to come up recklessly and you feeling overwhelmed, we create a sense of pacing, because there's no rush, there's no agenda for you to come out of how you're feeling right now to fix yourself, to get out of depression. There's no agenda like this, and I would argue that a truly trauma-informed professional, whether they're a practitioner, somatic practitioner, a therapist, a coach, they shouldn't have an agenda around how fast you're meant to be making progress in their own words, and what to feel or not to feel, and what the outcomes in your life to be. Because if they are fixated on the outcomes, they're not present with you. And if they are not present with you, then the nervous system has no space, no opportunity for corregulation. And in complex trauma or an experience like depression, an attuned, present space is paramount for healing, which is why the structure of the chrysalis is created in such a way, and it's the first time I did it last year, and I'm going to repeat the same structure again this year, allows this space for corregulation through slowing down, through creating a sense of everyone is welcome as they are, without having to perform that you're feeling happy or excited or you're making progress, or how great everything is, there's no such thing. Is we meet ourselves where we are, we meet each other where we are, and we meet our nervous systems where they are. This is one of the core core foundations of the chrysalis and of my work in general. So we'll we'll specifically be working with those important emotions that I mentioned. Anger, because anger, oh my gosh, I can talk about anger again also for hours and hours. Anger and rage, healthy aggression, the fight response is so imperative in our healing process when we experience depression. Because anger and rage are those core emotions that allow us to self-protect, that allow us to experience life force energy, that allow us to feel motivated in life. But if this fight response had to be suppressed for whatever reason as a result of trauma, the nervous system starts feeling deflated, starts feeling hopeless and helpless. Because without the fight response, there's no hope. There's no way of protecting oneself. There's no way of saying, well, I'm in my power, because the fire response is actually our power. I'm not talking about careless, reckless, violent and irresponsible fight response. I'm talking about also embodied and embodied fight response, where we're able to feel through our anger and rage as it's flowing through our nervous system, and then act according to what supports the protection of our dignity and what matters to us. Then, of course, we're going to be navigating despair because despair is a core aspect of depression. It's this feeling of there's no hope, but it's not just there's no hope, is this is rock bottom, and I don't see a way out. And I don't see a way out, and also maybe I don't even care to see a way out anymore, because I've surrendered to what is happening right now, but I haven't surrendered from an empowered place because sometimes the surrender where we realize that there's nothing I can do, so I will make the most out of a situation. There's no capacity in the nervous system for this kind of surrender, but it's this passive surrender where I feel defeated, and there's no point in me doing anything whatsoever. And in the chrysalis, we also welcome despairing. We are not trying to fix despair. I'm not trying to create conditions through somatic practices to get you out of despair. We create conditions to get to know despair again very slowly through our bodies and to see what as a result is ready to unfold within our nervous system. And then, of course, we touch on fear because also fear is a big aspect of depression. We are in a way immobilized by fear. Something happened at some point in our lives in complex trauma for too long, it was chronic, that was overwhelming, that was too much. And fear is the hallmark of complex trauma. If there's no fear, there's no trauma, and especially complex trauma. So now we work with fear. Not only will we be able to metabolize fear through the nervous system, but also see how fear itself stops us from feeling other emotions like anger and rage and despair and grief or anything else, because fear itself stops us from processing our emotional experiences, because as we're growing up and no one was attuned to us to help us self-soothe and process our emotions, we learn that, well, it's not safe for you to actually feel those emotions. So never go there. So every time those emotions are about to come up, fear shows up and says, Oh, hold on, don't go there. It's unsafe. So fear is not just an emotion in itself that we need to process, but we also need to uncouple fear from other emotions so that they're also able to be processed. This is work we'll be doing actively inside the chrysalis. And of course, we're going to be meeting our shame. You know, sometimes shame is seen as this bad player that is the reason for all our problems. And by the way, I want to say that I have experienced so much shame in my life in so many contexts, and sometimes it still comes up, I know it feels horrible. Okay, so I'm not trying to say, oh, it's not a big deal. I know it's a big deal, it's a huge deal, it's a huge deal. Shame can stop us from actually living our life, from being visible, from doing the things we want to do, from taking a risk because we don't want to be seen as failing or as defective or as not enough in any way. However, shame is protective. If at some point we learn that taking a risk or being visible or being authentic is met with rejection, abandonment, punishment, then shame comes as an emotion to tell you every time you're about to expand and do something that's beyond outside your comfort zone. No, don't go there, it's not safe. So, how am I going to do this? Shame is thinking by making you feel that you need to be ashamed of yourself or a specific aspect that is a core part of your identity. And once you believe that, you will no longer want to do the thing you said you want to do, like let's say go out on a date or uh try out a new hair color or uh decide to try public speaking or do anything that might be in line with your expansion. But now what's the point? Because shame has already told you that you're not enough, that you're gonna ruin it, that people will laugh at you, so stay where you are. You see the protective cycle there, uncomfortable, absolutely, and at the same time, from the nervous system perspective, necessary. But necessary for how the nervous system is currently organized, and as a result of this work we'll be doing inside the chrysalis, there will be some reorganization taking place. So that there's more space, more capacity, more flexibility for other experiences to start becoming accessible to your nervous system, like hope and choice and agency and excitement and joy, compassion for yourself and others, curiosity instead of shame and judgment. But inside the chrysalis, we won't only be working with somatics and emotional processing tools, we'll also be uncovering our unconscious at the same time. Because depression is an archetypal experience, meaning that it's a universal experience that comes with specific ingredients that get repeated amongst everyone who experiences depression. And instead of seeing depression as this whole big overwhelming experience, instead we break it down into smaller archetypes, like the archetype of the void, or we work with our life's myth and specific narratives around depression, as well as the meaning behind depression, to support coherent storytelling. But it's not a case of reframing, and that's important. We work with our body and our emotions, and alongside those somatic and emotional processes, we also include archetypes so that the symbols included in depression that are currently unconscious will become conscious and will become arrows in your own specific process to show you where you need to go next. So there is a lot of deepening and slowing down and listening to the body and listening to our unconscious and paying attention to what arises to the surface without trying to control outcomes or overcooking processes. That's why from the beginning, as the chrysalis was being birthed through me, and I was really attuning to what I feel depression is asking of us in order to create that experience for the participants. I realized that that place shouldn't have cognitive heavy materials, shouldn't have self-paced materials, as in videos or workbooks that I usually have in my other programs. And it needs to be more experiential. Now, there is an aspect, of course, of conversing and me sharing necessary parts of neuroscience and the nervous system and trauma work so that they land for you in such a way that somatic practices and emotional processes feel more integrated and within context, but at the same time, there's no aspect of hardcore education. This is going to be an immersive program, and that's why the structure has been designed this way to allow this to happen. And for the first time last year, there are only nine live calls, and the nine live calls are divided in three cycles. And we have the first cycle where we start with a four-hour mini retreat that is followed the week after by an integration call that is followed by a QA call the week after that week of integration. And then we have two more cycles that are exactly the same. So three cycles of three calls each, four-hour retreat, two hour integration call, two-hour QA call. And in the mini retreats of four hours is where the deep work is happening. And the reason they are four hours is because we want to create this space of no rush, slowing down. There's more than enough time for us to create connection, to support our nervous system, and to honor this container in our lives at this specific point in our lives, so that we're able to start creating this felt safety in our nervous systems so that the big work is able to take place. This is an experience I believe is so potent. And reach and I would even say necessary for those who experience depression and can be a catalyst for deeper change in our lives, a deeper change in your life. So if you're in the midst of depression, and if you wish for a space that is trauma-informed, that is rooted in compassion and curiosity, that will create those conditions for you to navigate your processes while feeling held and supported, and doing this in a paced way, without rushing and without forcing any specific outcomes, without you needing to perform in X, Y, or Z way to feel welcome, then I would encourage you to join. We're starting next week on the 23rd of April, is our first mini retreat. Replays are also available in case you're gonna miss any calls. And I would love to see you there. And something else that's important, the crystalist is for people who are ready for more advanced work. If, for example, right now you're experiencing depression, but you haven't been in any type of healing therapeutic space before, whether group or one-on-one, this is not the container for you at this point. There are other programs that run that would be for you, but the Chrysalis is for those people who have already done significant work on themselves, and they already have a good amount of self-awareness in terms of their history, and they're ready to include more their body and their nervous system in their healing process and work with deeper aspects of their unconscious. I hope you join us. You can find the link in the show notes. And if you have any questions, you can also email us at hello at efficcli.com and someone from my team will come back to you. I'm sending you so much love, guys. Take care and I'll see you soon.