Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus | John Gray on Love, Stress & Better Relationships

Why do men and women often misunderstand each other—even when they both have the best intentions?

In this episode, Daniel Wood sits down with legendary relationship expert John Gray, author of the international bestseller Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus, to discuss the psychology, biology, and communication patterns that shape modern relationships.

Together, they unpack how men and women respond differently to stress, why so many couples unintentionally create conflict, and the practical habits that strengthen trust, intimacy, and connection.

Whether you're married, dating, leading a team, raising a family, or simply trying to communicate better, this conversation provides practical insights you can apply immediately.

In this episode, you'll discover:

✔ Why men and women experience stress differently

✔ The science behind testosterone, estrogen, and emotional regulation

✔ Why men naturally try to solve problems while women often want to feel understood

✔ How "space" and "connection" affect relationships differently

✔ The communication habits that build trust and intimacy

✔ Why small daily actions matter more than grand romantic gestures

✔ Practical leadership lessons from understanding masculine and feminine communication

✔ How a healthy relationship improves your leadership, confidence, and performance

John also shares practical techniques couples can use every day—including his famous "Five-Minute Ask"—to build stronger relationships with less conflict and more understanding.

Whether you've read Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus or this is your first introduction to John's work, this conversation is filled with timeless relationship wisdom.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Whenever a woman is experiencing stress hormones, her body is not making enough estrogen. For women to make just to be happy, not stressed, their estrogen levels will tend to be ten times higher than a man's. And for a man to be happy and not stressed, he's making ten times more testosterone than a woman. When a woman is stressed, when she's producing stress hormones, this is all measurable. Her estrogen levels are going down. And the higher the stress, her testosterone is going higher. Just think about whenever you're feeling stressed, part of you is not confident that you're gonna succeed. For women, what creates estrogen going up is when a woman feels safe. And for men, it's always about his independence when it comes to Welcome to the Swedish 12th Institute podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

I'm your host, Daniel Wood. And today, I am joined by none other than John Gray, the author of Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus. We're gonna talk about men, women, relationships, stress, communication, and why we so often misunderstand each other. I think this is one of the most important episodes we have done. Our relationships affect everything in our lives. They affect how we feel, how we lead, how we show up at work, how we show up at home, how we recover from stress, and how much peace or tension we carry through life. What I really appreciate about John's work is that he doesn't talk about it in a vague or a complicated way. He makes it very clear. It's very easy to understand, and we get to see what are the differences between masculine energy and feminine energy. Why do we respond differently under stress, and how do we support each other better? So, in this episode, you're gonna learn some very powerful, easy techniques you can use to solve stresses, solve problems, support another woman or another man, and why when we hear each other, things get easier. We increase our testosterone as men, we increase our estrogen as women, and how we can be better leaders, better partners, be better at emotionally regulating, how to handle our stress, and really, really make an impact. So I am excited to share this conversation with you. Here comes John Gray. Yeah, I am really excited about this. I wanted to start off by asking you about masculinity and femininity. It's so much discussed now. So, how do you see that working in modern relationships now?

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Well, I think everybody knows there's masculine qualities and feminine qualities. And in order to sort of create equality in the world, we sort of say we're the same. But actually, to have true equality, equal respect, we have to recognize diversity. And when it comes to men and women, there really are some significant differences. Now, certainly there's a lot that's the same. But when it comes to managing stress in our lives, when it comes to creating a family, when it comes to creating romance in our lives, and even more practically, when it comes to managing stress effectively, men and women biologically have differences. And so I think it's always good to start out that way, which is one simple discovery that I made from science, which is let's compare women and men when they're experiencing stress hormones. Whenever a woman is experiencing stress hormones, her body is not making enough estrogen according to happiness levels. So let's start with happiness levels. For women to make just to be happy, not stressed, their estrogen levels will tend to be ten times higher than a man's. And for a man to be happy and not stressed, he's making ten times more testosterone than a woman.

unknown 4:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

So now if we want to be happy together, I want to learn to communicate in ways that support her estrogen going up. And she can learn to communicate in ways and interact with me in ways that raise my testosterone up. Now, certainly as a man, I'm responsible to do things to keep my testosterone up. And that is I work hard, I have confidence, I'm accountable for things. There's a lot of things in a man's life that will build his testosterone.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

To be playful with it is actually doing an activity.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the research shows that whenever a man associates himself with success and feels he's doing it himself, his testosterone will go higher. And playfully, just playfully, they found that one of the biggest things to raise testosterone in a man is chopping wood.

unknown 4:52

Really?

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah, well, I can imagine. I can imagine that. It's like I'm doing it all myself. It's me with nature, and I'm doing it. And you get to see immediate reaction to it. They found that when men are doing tests and they do high on a test, their testosterone goes up. They could do the best on a test, and somebody would say it was the worst, and his testosterone will go down. So my testosterone levels have a lot to do with how the world responds to me as well, and also how I respond to myself. So chopping wood or winning a prize will raise testosterone up. Now, in women, the same thing happens. Their testosterone will go up as well. But what's the difference here is that when a woman is stressed, when she's producing stress hormones, this is all measurable, her estrogen levels are going down. And the higher the stress, her testosterone is going higher. Right. Now, for a man, when a man is, let's say he's stressed in fight or flight, we call it fight or flight. That's he's angry, right? So we have angry men. Let's measure their hormones at that time. Their estrogen levels, the female hormone that needs to be 10 times higher in women, is now going up in a man and his testosterone's going down.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

So Right. So when a woman is stressed, her testosterone goes up, but when a man is stressed, his actually goes down. That's right.

unknown 6:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

So just think about whenever you're feeling stressed, there's a problem, and you're not really feeling completely confident in how you're solving it. You know, it's it's like right now we're two confident guys, our testosterone levels are up, we're solving problems, we're doing our job. But let's say you're stressed, it's usually because a part of you is not confident that you're gonna succeed. It's not fulfill uh it's not unfolding the way you expect, we'll put it that way as well. Right now, for women, their stress level goes up when their estrogen levels happen to be go down. So what creates estrogen going up is when a woman feels safe and a woman feels I have help. It's always it's always about relationship for women. Do I have help? And for men, it's always about his independence when it comes to testosterone. Look what I can do myself. So you can look at studies on men's testosterone levels for every age, uh, like let's say 35. They'll look at all the men who are 35 and they'll look at average testosterone levels. And for men, the single men will have the highest testosterone in that category. The men in a committed relationship, it will drop a bit. Men who are married, it drops again. Men with three children, it drops again. And a grandfather with five grandchildren, it drops again. That's the averages. Now I'm a grandfather with five grandchildren, I'm 74, my testosterone levels are 50% higher than when I was a young man. And really, yes. This is because I I have the skills to understand how I'm different from my wife. So the way I interacted with her this morning, for example, was something that would rebuild my testosterone because I was helping her. Whenever a man is helping a woman in a meaningful way, uh, his testosterone will go up because helping you and helping the world and my work, doing my job, that that's a that's a big boost of testosterone.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

But if I'm successful at that point, the fulfillment we get when we're doing something, that's all that's essentially telling us my testosterone is now rising. For a man, yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Yeah. And for a woman, her estrogen is going up. Right. So there's that's a that's a reality. Okay. So we regardless of what people think, you know, a lot of people read men are from Mars, women read those books, and they say, Well, I feel like I'm from Mars. And I go, Yeah, you're really a woman, but you're producing more testosterone, so you're taking on male qualities. Now, at the same time, let's let's be I'm talking biology here. I have many natural inherent feminine qualities like joy and happiness and vulnerability and sensitivity and caring and nurturing, all the things that you feel towards your children. See, that's your female side. What you feel in the business world is you're not going to be so generous with other people in the business world. You're not going to be as caring towards them, you're not going to feel as much love for them. That's going to be more testosterone. So we can, once again, we can look at differences in terms of characteristics of testosterone, characteristics of estrogen. Depending on someone for help is estrogen stimulating. Depending on yourself for solving problems is testosterone.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

So we're all that's really interesting about the business side of it, because obviously, as a male leader, it's it's easy to become very, you know, I'm going to direct the flow, but you want to involve people, you want to be that more caring. And the same for women who, you know, want to also lead and need to take that. How does that play out? And how do we make sure we're we're in our correct hormonal balance while also being a powerful leader?

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Well, when I talk about gender-specific leadership qualities, I think that's where we want the ideal. The same thing in my marriage. I want the ideal. I want to blend those parts of me. I want to be in balance with those. When I was just talking hormones, my testosterone levels are higher, but my estrogen levels are way higher. All men naturally have more estrogen as they get older. Estrogen is associated with wisdom and testosterones, ironically, associate with compassion. If you look at the sort of the ancient uh Tibetan ideas of feminine and masculine, because they always look at the masculine and feminine aspects of the divine, they'll attribute wisdom to the female side and compassion to the male side. And that's kind of the opposite of what people think. So many of my ideas are the opposite. Because for men, everything goes well when you can rise out of yourself and feel compassionate for others. Now, ironically, let's look at it from the point of view of a counselor for 45 years. When women come in, if they're unhappy, they usually say something like, I give and I give and I give. They're always being compassionate, giving to everybody, but they're not happy as a result. Whereas if a man lives in his life in compassion, he rises above himself. Women are designed to be compassionate to someone who needs their help. And as soon as a woman starts to think a man needs her help, she will start acting out of compassion and treating him like a child. She will overgive and she will resent that she gives so much. And what she doesn't know is that when you treat a man like a child, his testosterone levels go down. Should never help a man unless he's specifically asking for help. But what brings out the masculinity in a man is when a woman or his children need his help. But there's two different types of hormones there. One if we when it's your wife, who's a grown woman, who needs your help, the result is you'll feel like a hero and you'll feel more sexual attraction towards her. You'll have more attraction in the relationship. And your testosterone levels will go higher than just being a successful man. Now you're being successful with a woman that you're devoted to. So devotion is the highest compassion. You go compassion.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

How does it work for her? How does she how does she increase her estrogen in that in that example?

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Well, whenever a woman feels I can get support, her estrogen levels go up. She feels safe and I can depend on someone. Now, there's two types of I feel safe. I'm in my room, I'm all by myself, and I'm safe. Okay, that's one that's one kind of safety. Another is you're facing life's challenges and there's problems everywhere. And you have a helper. You have somebody who's available to you. You'll hear women constantly saying, I don't feel men are unavailable. Men are unavailable. It's a very big thing. Right. That's one aspect of it when she's expressing her feelings to be non-reactive, hold the space, which would be to not get angry, to not get defensive, to not try to change her, but to create a space for her to find. That's right. Don't try to solve her problem. Actually, you can solve her problem. The real problem, which is she needs to feel there's a grounded uh someone holding the space for me who cares, who seeks to understand.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

That was a huge reprogramming for myself to realize that I'm actually helping when I'm just holding the space because that allowed me to feel helpful, again, increasing my testosterone. Always, actually having to say, well, look, it's easy. Do this, that, that. I just let her be her.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

And exactly. And and you know, there's advanced techniques. You could also ask some questions. Help me understand that better. Well, tell me more about that, be a little encouraging to create a safe space for her. But I don't want to dodge the question you asked about the workplace, which is Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Because that's what I'm thinking too.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Is how is that a woman powerful there? Gender-specific leadership is having an insight in, first of all, to lead with love. Okay, that that's to lead is masculine, to love is feminine. So to lead with love, which means most people don't think about the workplace as being a place of love, but I love my work. So I lead with love. I also care for others in the workplace. My clients love me. I have fans. Okay. They just they can't get enough of me. I I they'll listen to me talk for hours and hours. And my clients, you know, I have a waiting list of people, just please, I want to do a session with you. So they love me. It's every business person wants your clients to love you. The people who read my books, they love my books. So love is like this really important thing in the workplace. And so, what you, as a leader in the workplace, with the people I work with, if it's women, I take extra consideration to listen more. If they if you don't take the time and have the patience to ask questions and show interest more than you normally would with a guy. Okay, with a guy, he's not going to be going, don't you care about me? You know, he's more concerned about did you pay my am I getting paid or do I have freedom? Am I getting credit for my achievements? Nicely said. I want my credit for that. And women also want credit, but women, you can never give them enough credit unless they feel heard and they feel seen. So when women say I don't feel appreciated, often they're not saying I'm not getting paid enough. What they're saying, it's not, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

I the answer, I've you've been employee of the month for seven months. I'm giving you all the credit you want. You're not actually giving them the right type of feedback.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Well, you can give them that. They have a male side. Now remember, when she's in the workplace, she's on her male side, and there's nothing wrong with that. The but you also want to realize that with women, you want to be respectful, respectful of their also their sensitivities of their female side. Now, men being in the workplace, you don't have to worry about their female side so much because that's not as as important to him. So, you know, for many years the workplace was very oppressive to women, not as much now, because we could have waken up. Women are different, they need extra respect. And also, by respecting their sensitivities, production can go up, harmony can go up, but without an awareness of honoring the female side. So, what would that look like in practical terms? I wrote a whole book called Mars Venus in the workplace. If I'm in my workplace setting and I've got men and women in the meeting, we're all checking in and everything, uh, there's a problem. We're discussing the problem, and I'm noticing the person in customer service, uh, she's not talking. So if I don't understand women are different, I might be thinking she has nothing to say. But actually, she has a different temperament and she's feminine. So it's kind of hard for her to jump in there where everybody's like racing to have the best idea and she's not as competitive. She's more like listening to people. She's a good listener, so she's listening. So you got to create the space for her to be allowed to talk rather than wait for her to take over. That's exactly it. To encourage. So tell me what you think about that. So I'm going to engage her her participation. If there's a man over there, he's not talking. I know I already know. If he has something to say, he'll say it. He's not going to feel like nobody asked me what I feel. It's just not going to happen with a guy. And and yet, having said that, we are kind of mixed up today. There are guys who are more on their female side. They they're not nurturing their male side, their life, their habits don't nurture testosterone levels, but they go more to their female side. So I'll be respectful of that as well. It's understanding what you're dealing with. You know, you could also say, well, some people are introverted, some people are extroverted. My point of view is some people are more on their female side, some people more on their male side in the workplace. Having said that, now we go into the world of relationships. And even the world of home relationships is very important for the work world because the work world is stress. And our personal life should be a major way to recover from stress. See, that's that's men come home from all that's a parents, right? Yes, that's right. It should be ideally a place to come home and de-stress. And it can be I will say on a practical note, responsibilities for kids today are like so difficult. When I was growing up in the 50s, my mother just said, go play. And we didn't have devices, we didn't have ADD everywhere, we didn't have sugar everywhere. You know, it's a crazy world today. I mean, given that understanding, when it comes to stress, one of the things that I can do is come home. And one of the ideas of men are from Mars is men have their cave time, and I need time to forget my problems of the day. Ironically, women in terms of relationship, if they're in touch with their female side, need to remember the problems of the day. But when women go into the workplace, it's hard to come back to be in touch with their female side. So many women today are finally saying, I feel like I've lost myself. I want to connect with my female side. What does that mean? Again, how to get back there. And the secret to lasting romance, ironically, in a relationship, which couples would like to have, is learning how to use a man to help you come back to your female side. And so that's it, that's the difference of my later books with basic classic men are from Mars, is there women were, it was just 40 years ago when I was teaching these ideas, started teaching them. Women were more on their female side. So they they were stressed from their day with the kids and whatever, and it wasn't as much stressed as it is today. So they would want to talk about what's going on in their lives. Now, about 50% of women today still want to talk, but many, when they come home, they just feel overwhelmed. Everything has to be done. There's no time to come back to herself. And so what I've done is I've I've simplified this. There's ways to maximize the decreased amount of time for intimacy at home, is learning, teaching women how to share feelings in a 10-minute mirror, in a 10-minute window about what's going on in their life that will lower their stress. If they don't have that 10 minutes every day, uh, and he needs his cave time. I was mentioning that, which is I come home, I need time to decompress, to forget the problems. She needs time to remember the problems. And women don't remember the problems. Usually, when they get home from work, they've been pushing down emotions all day long. Right. And so when it when they get home, there's a stress, those emotions, she has to make sense of them. So there's a thing in psychology that says when you push emotions down during the day, they will get displaced on your partner. So suddenly, instead of being frustrated, people didn't listen to me at work, I didn't feel appreciated, I felt pressured, I still don't know how to solve that problem. Her brain will look at you and say, What's wrong with you? What did you not do? That's called displacement.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

And this is never that's when the classic, why didn't you take out the garbage? Why isn't this done?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Yeah, no, you should immediately start finding problems to talk about because actually talking about problems is a way for her to connect with what's inside when she's stressed. So ironically, talking about problems produces estrogen. Estrogen then lowers her stress. But it's it's it's not like you have to talk about pro if there's positive things to talk about, too. It's just talking. She needs to talk. But when she's stressed, what you have to know is that when a woman is producing stress hormones, what she feels are going to Be negative emotions focusing on problems. And so if she can take the time to share problems in a way that a man can hear. So how do you talk about your feelings in a way that a man can listen without getting defensive, without getting annoyed, without getting running out of energy? First, you give them a goal. There's 10 minutes. I'm going to talk. Second thing, it's not about you. I'm not going to talk about the relationship. I'm not going to talk about you. I mean, I just made love with my wife this morning after we talked about a mistake I made the other day. She wanted to pay our son $20 for cleaning some shoes. And I said, what about 10? And she thought I was being selfish. And I said, okay, we'll do 20. So it was a little thing, but it hurt her feelings because there's other things in her life that are bothering her. So something as little as, hey, I agree, $20 is fine. Just that one little thing is like she felt hurt by that. Like I wasn't loving our son enough. Okay. So so then talking about that, but not being mad at each other. See? So certainly we can talk about things. But if there's if there's stress, okay, from work, what happens is that magnifies the stresses of our personal life. And then it becomes about him. So one of the ways to get a man to listen is to say, this is not about you. It's about something else that's going on. I'm not asking you to change in any way. And this is I we we don't even we we play my books. I recommend don't even say let's talk. Because as soon as you say let's talk, his stress goes up, okay? Yeah. And when a man's even moderate stress, that's called adrenaline, cortisol is fight or flight, but adrenaline is moderate stress. There's a problem. I know I can handle it, but as soon as man produces adrenaline, he can't hear you. Now, this is something you have to understand, women have to understand. This is biological. When a man produces adrenaline, his mirror neurons in the brain close down. That means he cannot feel what you feel. He's only now thinking of a solution. And he even though he's not talking, he's still thinking of a solution and he can't feel what you feel. He's not fully present in the moment anymore. As women would say. But basically, what's going on is his mirror neurons are closed. And I will say he is present. He's presently trying to figure out a solution to your problem. He's not present emotionally. Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Yeah, but he's he's not here. He's right over here figuring out the solution.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Well, again, that's what she's gonna feel. Okay, from our side, we don't feel that. We feel completely like I'm trying to help you here, and you say, I don't feel like you're listening to me. And we think, what are you talking about? I'm here trying to figure this thing out for you.

unknown 24:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

So so what lowers what produces estrogen, another thing that produces estrogen is connection, just like success is a thing that produces a man's testosterone. So she's looking for connection. He's now gonna connect with her. He wants connection too, and he thinks I need to solve her problem. Because let's say I did solve your problem and you did go, wow, that was so helpful. Thank you so much, I would have connection with you. So it's not like men don't want connection, but biologically, this is wiring in the brain, which is proven with neuroscience, it's not conditioned into us, it's who we are as human beings. Just think about it. If a man is in danger throughout millions of years, a human, a man in danger, what is he gonna do? He's got to figure out how to solve this dangerous problem. He's got to immediately go in to fix it. If I'm a fireman and the bell rings, I don't say, well, tell me how is the fire hot? You know, is it how is it feeling? How does it feel? You know, just no. So we're designed to take action unless the bell that rings says, you don't have this is not about you. You don't have to fix anything, you don't have to solve anything, but you can solve my problem by just listening and not responding at all.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Just give me a space to be for 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

That's right. That's right. So she sets the goal. He thou knows it's just 10 minutes. Because part of testosterone is you have to have a beginning and an end. It's a goal.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

It's like we have to get to run our race. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Sometimes when women talk, men go, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I don't know where this is gonna go. What's it gonna, where are we going with this? So give me a specific role. And some women will think, well, sometimes I need to talk more. Then talk a little bit more, it won't be a problem. But set the standard where he begins to experience something that is not intuitive to most men, still not fully intuitive to me, that just by listening, somebody's gonna say, Thank you so much. I feel so much better. Okay. Sometimes I'll be doing here, I've doing this 40 years, and I'll heard a woman quite a bit. And I didn't give at the end of my sessions, I usually give clarification, I give understanding, I give direction, I give assignments. But sometimes I've just listened and I feel like I completely wasted her time. And I'll say, Well, was this so helpful? She goes, Oh, it was so helpful. I feel completely understood now. I'm more relaxed. So it just doesn't make sense to a man because it's when we're successful solving problems, we feel good. It's not that sometimes I don't want to feel heard, certainly I do, but it's not when I'm feeling uh a high level of stress at my partner, but I might be talking. But this is very dangerous for men. How do I, you know, men or I say, well, how do you keep your testosterone up? And I was just at the biohackers conference explaining to men, you don't have to take testosterone. I got more than all of you, and I have better sex life than any of you, and I'm 74 years old. Why? Well, there's certain things I make sure I don't do. I'm very, very clean about my sexual energy. Okay, sexual energy can deplete you or it can increase your testosterone. I would, I would never do porn, I would never have sex with myself, I only have sex with my wife. I'm very committed, I'm monogamous. It's very, very important that a man have management of his sexual energy. Whenever you're having sex, it's so it's sex is like ice cream. You're depending on it to feel good. Whenever you're just depending on it to feel good, it estrogen shoots up. So you have to have in the presence of a woman who really feels I can depend on you to feel safety. You're my hero to my wife. I'm the hero most of the time. I wasn't the other day, but we picked we talked a little bit, it was fine. But when a man is a hero, he will die for you. What does that mean? He becomes selfless for you. He has devotion for you. And and these are things that we naturally have for our children. Why? Well, of course, they're little bit, little pieces of us, but also they depend on us and they don't blame us. Okay? Right. The whole thing, we understand if you can depend on a man and not blame him, his heart opens, his mirror neurons open, he feels connection. And when he feels that connection, the first reaction he'll have, if he's not talking, is he'll feel optimistic. He'll also have 50% empathy. You can measure the brain of a man when he's listening without feeling blamed. He has 50% empathy compared to a woman. A woman would have 100% empathy. But when women experience adrenaline, blood flow leaves the logical part of the brain and goes to the emotional part of the brain. This is true. They can measure it. Give a woman a task that has adrenaline production, blood flow leaves the logical part of the brain, goes to the emotional part of the brain. For a man, when his mirror neurons close, adrenaline, blood flow stops to the emotional part of the brain and goes to the thinking part of the brain. So this is like we're designed to misunderstand each other, or we're designed, if we understand each other, to come closer together. Now, when I said that, I know a lot of women will go, wait a second, I don't lose my logic when I'm in adrenaline. You can, what happens is you either lose your logic or you suppress your emotions. That's why women in the workplace are suppressing way more emotion than men. Men only suppress emotion. Men only have emotion, negative emotion, if they're in cortisol. In adrenaline, moderate stress, men have no emotion. For women under moderate under moderate stress, they'll have a lot of emotion. And then when they go to cortisol, they start having less emotion. That's like when a woman is shut down, she's really, really stressed. Okay, she's upset with you a lot. She won't talk to you. Uh so these are our dynamics. And this is something that we just don't understand about each other. For example, when a woman does become cold, a man just wants to give her space. He'll ignore her for a while. Because if I'm upset, give me space. Don't ask me. Exactly. Let me hide in my man cave for a little bit. Let me go to my man cave. Just pretend like everything is fine. And when I come out, everything will be fine. But when women don't understand that, they think when he comes out of the cave, oh, he must still be angry with me. He must still be upset with me. He hasn't talked about it. We haven't resolved anything. I don't even know why he got upset. You don't need to know. He's fixed it all. He's resolved it within himself because we sort of live in.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Well, how does that work for the woman then? What what do you do when the woman is angry and we want to give her space? What should we be doing?

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Don't give her space. Don't give her space. No, don't see, she doesn't need the space. That's why men give space. My wife's upset. I gotta go. I'm gonna go shopping. I'll see you later. Right. I gotta go invest. Yeah, go do something. Just give her space. That's our instinct because that we know if we get our cool down. We just have to cool down. We let it go. But for women, what they need is to talk. They need they either to talk or see evidence are evidence that we love them and that we're helpful and that we're dependable. So you could start cleaning the kitchen, for example, if she's upset. You could ask her questions, and usually she'll say, I don't, if she's really upset, she'll say, It's nothing. No, I is something wrong. No, nothing's wrong. She's shut down. She's shut down, nothing's wrong. And what she's really saying is, I don't trust you with my feelings. I can't trust you right now. And which to man, if you don't really understand women, when they say I don't trust you, it means I don't trust you to share just these feelings. It's not like I don't trust that you love me and you care about me. But that knowledge does disappear temporarily in her brain. Okay, women can just go into you never love me, you'd never do this for me. These are just stress responses. And so what you want to do as a man is not react, but get her to talk and make it safe for her to not be positive, make it safe for her to complain or be upset. Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

And this is prove that she is safe to share these things.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

That's right. She has, and over time she can learn it's safe, and then something will come up. And part of why it's not safe, it's like my wife just saying, you know, because she she was she withdrew, and I had to like get her to talk, finally get her to talk. And she said she said, Well, you need to ask me at least 10 times. Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

It's like marketing. You gotta put the message across eight times, otherwise, they don't see it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Otherwise, I don't I don't feel trust. And no man knows that. He just thinks if she wants to talk, she'll talk. Because if I want to talk, I'll talk. But I I'll say again for men, if you want to sustain your testosterone levels and positive mood, if you're ever upset, don't talk. And I was explaining this at the conference the other day, and a man came up to me and says, Yeah, yeah, I just you you're right. Sometimes I'm upset about something, and my wife says, What's the matter? And I start talking about it, I end up feeling worse. It's just because why that is, is when you when you talk about when you're emotionally upset, stress hormones, frustration, disappointment, anger, sadness, fear, any of those stress emotions, when you're feeling a stress emotion and you talk and you're a man, estrogen goes up. Now, the only reason you're having stress emotions is estrogen is already too high. So the worst thing you can do is to go more. And then couples, if they don't know this, women don't know this about men. They think if I can get him to talk, he'll feel better. Right. So they keep asking questions and you end up arguing and you don't know what just happened. You know, what we don't even know what happened. We lose.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

He's feeling worse and worse the more he gets to vent, and she's feels like, but I'm helping you right now.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Thinking she is, right. And also she will react back because when you know, we become mirrors of each other. There's no question about it. And what women can know, and and I'll just mention is a little plug from my most recent book, which is just written to women. It's men are from Mars, women are from Venus, for women only. And but men should read it, okay. But I wrote the book for women because sometimes women, when they read my books, millions have read my books, and some of those women will think, well, if my husband doesn't read the book, it can't work. He should read the book too. And I agree, it's good if men read the book, but not all men do. And there's millions of men who are happily married who have never read Men A From Mars for Men. Okay, so so you know, he doesn't have to read the book. If she's having complaints in the relationship, this book addresses her and what she can do, how she can be, how she can manage herself differently with him, and you'll have a whole new man. And I hear this from women all the time. A woman just the other day said to me, He, I I said, just give him a few, let him go on a fishing trip with his friends. Just let him, let it be okay that he goes off on his own. And when you see, he'll be completely different. And she goes, He was. He was completely different. Just don't complain to him when he comes home about why he shouldn't have been away. Just be happy that he had a good time. So giving men space is one technique. There's so many techniques, but more importantly is for a woman to be able to communicate her wishes and her needs in a way that a man can fulfill. And that's how to talk so a man will provide the support you need. And there's a big hurdle women have to overcome. And it is a big hurdle because they don't understand men. And the big hurdle is if you don't ask, he assumes you don't need anything more. And her world, because see, I don't want you to help me unless I ask for help. Back off, I'm I'm independent, don't help me. So I'm always in my world, I'm thinking that if you're not asking for help, then you're not wanting my help. And I want to respect that. So by ignoring you, I think I'm respecting you because you're not asking. And I'm not saying women have to be perfect at any of this stuff, but I want you to know that the secret of motivating a man when he's when he's loses the motivation, which happens in relationships. And it's it's built in, it's another biological difference. It's a no, it's a biological similarity, which is routine inhibits dopamine production. It's called habituation. Once he's emptied the trash 15 times, he gets no credit for emptying the trash. That's just his job. Okay. So there's no thrill she gets, you know. You know, there's studies that say when a man starts vacuuming, it turns a woman on. I say, yeah, for the first three months. And then after that, it's just his job. Yeah. That's his job. And there's no dopamine produced. So what I've created is a system of various interactions, little games couples can play, where a woman depends on a man and it's always new and different, and it stimulates dopamine, raises his testosterone. When his testosterone goes up in reaction to her, because he's certain he's helping her, and her estrogen goes up higher. Now, in my book, you know, people say, Would you change anything in men are from Mars? I the book is completely accurate if you're in a traditional relationship. But but now that we have non-traditional relationships, everybody's doing their thing, and women are off making money, and men are staying home with the kids. And what you get is if I'm staying home with the kids, my testosterone's gonna go pretty low. And if she's burning all the money, her testosterone's gonna go high and her estrogen is gonna go low. So, how do we solve that problem? The way we solve that problem is we we come together and we create play these, create opportunities for him to be more masculine with her and for her to be more feminine. And that all initiates from women needing a man's help. So women are walking around. What is something that keeps it from becoming monotone? Now, there's a whole book to explain this, but I'll too. And we'll link to this in the show notes, guys, so you can go get the book. So it's the chapter 13 in the new book. It's one of my favorite ones. See, my books are all additions. I'm always creating more and more and more. It just gets better and better. And this is my favorite technique in my marriage because it's so easy. It's called the five-minute ask. Okay, at least once a day, my wife will do this. She puts up five fingers. That means she's gonna ask me to do something for her that she could do on her own that she wouldn't normally do on her own, but she's gonna ask me to do it, and I stop immediately whatever I'm doing and enthusiastically respond right away and take action to do that very thing. It could, would you peel it to would you peel an apple and cut it in pieces and put some almond butter with it? Right away. Happy to do it. I'm so excited. The image I hold for that is in my town, there's my the Italian restaurant. I have my business meetings there, I give them big tips. And whenever I come, it's Dr. Gray, the chef has champagne for you, he has this for you. They all know me. I they like so I'm like treated like this super guest. That's what I become every day for a couple minutes, where my wife does this. I go right away.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

She has permission to at any time go, all right, now I'm gonna use my my five-minute ask. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Less it, and it can be less than five minutes. I can be, but that's maximum five minutes. And it's not, it doesn't become do that every day. And she doesn't ask that every day. That just becomes routine, but tries to space out. It has to be different, different things every at random times. You know, occasionally she surprises me. I'm already in bed. She just goes like this, you know. I left my phone. Would you find my phone? You know, go get her phone. One time she says like this, she says, Would you give me a glass of warm water from the kitchen? Because that's the purified water. So I jump out of bed and run and do that. And yeah, I feel if it wasn't playing.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

You treat it as you're getting to be a hero for five for whatever amount of time.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

That's right, that's right. And what's important is see, one of the ideas in men are from Mars is understanding female hormones and psychology, is that every act of love, big or little, has the same response in terms of estrogen. So here I'm making all this money working hard for my family, doing this, I get a point for that. I come home, I find her, give her a hug right away, I get a point for that. I find her four times, I get a point for four points a day. If I if I run to find her, I get a little point. See, women respond to men's actions.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

So you you spent all your day working and building the future, and one hug gave you as much, as many points as you're gonna do. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Because she's already habituated to that one point. But that one point is important. That's the golden point. Monogamy and doing your best to provide for your family are the two main things, and coming home or calling home. So you're available. Those three, those are the three golden points of marriage. And then it really kicks into gear where little things make a big difference.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

And one thing I'm I'm really curious about, because obviously I have more experience being a man in the workplace than being a woman in the workplace. But how is the difference then for for a woman in the workplace? You know, because you talk about feeling safe and and you know, feeling it being in that space. How does a woman do that as a leader in the workplace?

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Well, as a as a leader in the workplace, again, it's first you're an example of somebody who cares about people. You're you're doing the best you can be. If you want other people to do the best they can be, you have to have emotional management. That's a big part of it, is learning how to put your own emotions to the side and be gracious, be generous, be kind, be considerate. And but then when it comes to men, is whenever possible, give men space to make their own decisions. When you're talking to a man, be sure to add little phrases like that makes sense. That's a good idea, you're right about that. And for a woman, it would do the same thing because she has her male side. But with a woman, I would also be more, more attentive to understanding that she doesn't understand men. Like if I'm working on my computer and a woman walks into my office. If a man walks into my office, I'll just keep looking at the computer and he'll talk to me. He's not going to take offense. He's not going to feel like I don't respect him, I don't care about him, I don't value him. I'm just busy doing this. If a woman comes in, I will stop and I just say, I'm focusing on this problem. It will take me, you know, a while. If if this is just a one-minute thing, I can give you my full attention, or we can schedule a time to talk. I can't just, but my mind would think I can just keep doing this and she can talk. And the truth is, what would really happen is I would be measured, listening to her with half my brain or a quarter of my brain to see if this is really a big problem. And if it's a big problem, I say, okay, stop. What is that? Let's go over it again. So there's subtleties to this whole thing. And men often, when they're focused, they can look angry and they're not angry. And women have to understand that's men. When they're focused, they can look angry. You can ask a man to do something. How you ask a man to do something is very, very important. There's a whole art to that. That's a 10-minute discussion. So asking for help, directing, understanding male sensitivities, female sensitivities. Men do not like micromanaging. Don't be asking me a lot of questions all the time. Why did you do this? Why do you do that? When actually you have an implied message that you should do it this way. But just tell me. If you're a leader, men respect hierarchy. Just tell me. Okay, I don't have to agree with it. I'm happy to do it. A woman, I mean, I I don't want to go through that whole book, but there's so many insights. But if we were to sum it up, the most important leadership skill is how to be a good listener. And when you with a woman, you're gonna ask more questions. With a man, you're not gonna need to ask more questions, but you would ask him what he thinks. It's a very important. How would you approach this differently? You know, and then take a moment to acknowledge. His thinking, even if you're not gonna do it. Okay, sometimes a woman says, Don't you think we should do it this way? He says, No. Well, what do you think we should do? We should do it like this. And she says, But really, don't you think it would be better if we do this? She'll try to convince you to agree with her because we want everybody to be happy. I'm cool. If you're my boss, just tell me what do you think? I'll tell you what I think. Just give me a little acknowledgement. That makes sense, but this is how we're gonna do it. I'm gonna be fine with that. So we we we just don't want to think that we're all the same all the time, and but understand their sensitivities. But the key thing, which we haven't touched on, is yes, leadership for men and women, you have the greater understanding of who you're talking to and what their needs are. Very important. But how to come home and de stress from the workplace so that you come back to the workplace feeling you love your job. That is the most important leadership to skill that there is. I'm happy to do this job, I'm glad to do this job, I want to work with all of you. How do I get that? I come home from a life which is nourishing me and supporting me, which manages the stress effectively. Adequate cave time for a man, and also adequate how to how to come out of the cave and not be seen as a bad husband, not be seen as a bad partner. See, I it changed my life one time. I my wife and I had gotten in an argument or something before we learned all this stuff. And I took my cave time, and that was good. Never, if I start to get angry, at least I learned stop talking, take your cave time, and we'd established that. So I took my cave time and when I came back, my wife just was happy, like everything was fine. She was trusting that I handled what I need was upset about, and now my heart was open again. And she said to me, She said when I came back, she says, John, thank you so much for protecting me from your dragon. Because men have a d everybody has a dragon inside. Yeah, we have to mo regulate that. That's emotional regulation. And understanding how men do it more effectively and how women can do it more effectively. And there's a lot of things that we can learn to do without depending on our partner if we're upset, how to manage emotions without having to use your partner and blame them because if you have blame in your relationship, love can't flow.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

And and as a kind of ambitious man who's going after his goal, how do you make sure that your partner doesn't see themselves as like secondary or low prioritized when you're when you're chasing a mission?

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Well, that happens a lot, as as you clearly can see that. I would sit down, we would have conversations. Okay, so my wife feels you work's more important than me. And I said, Okay, let's work out our schedule. And so we had a schedule. And when I say past, because Bonnie has passed now and I'm remarried, but with Bonnie, she would feel I was working. She'd say, You're you're always working. We never have time for me. I said, Okay, let's create that time. Let's focus, look on the calendar and how many hours we have, how many days we have. For me, I travel and teach. So I we would look on the calendar, and and she said, I said, and so what would be the best timing for you? So she has to be the one who knows what's enough, what's not enough. And she said, nine days a month. Okay, nine, that was like three weekends. I used to do weekend seminars, so nine days a month. The rest of the time I'm here, you know. That was my major work away. So sometimes she would say, You know, you're never here, you're never here. I I need your help and you're not here. I said, Okay, well, let's look at look at the calendar. And then she would see that I was there eight days or nine days, and then she would be fine. It's just sometimes see the emotions come up inside of a woman when she's got not getting enough, when you're not scoring enough points. I call that the love bank. You gotta build up the love bank. You know, when when when I sometimes lose a I've lost a lot of money, gained a lot of money, I have an interesting life. But when my money is down, I'm having to look every every expense I have, I'm having to look. Do I can I afford this? Can I afford this? Can I afford this? But when you have lots of money in the bank, you never even think about that. So when a woman does not get a lot of love points, when you haven't scored a lot of love points with her, the bank is not cool. She's she'll start comparing. Well, I'm doing this, he's not doing that, but I only got this, he's not doing that. And the brain, when it's stressed, fixates on little problems. That's why relationships seem a little crazy, because we fixate on little problems. My wife was deeply hurt. I mean, she felt this deep hurt inside of her simply because she wanted to pay the son $20 for washing my shoes. And I said, How about 10? And then she said, No, 20. He went online and saw that's the going rate. I said, Okay, 20. But just because I did that on that day, on another day, that wouldn't hurt her feelings at all. Right. There's another dynamic. It's just it's a little more complicated, but it's called PTSD. Everybody knows you're in soldier in battle. It's stress. So you can't you repress the stress because you've got to survive. Then when you get to a safe place, that stress comes up. So if you're in a really good relationship, lots of sex, enjoying love, sharing, which good communication, which I have, that means on a regular basis, there will be a moment where her unresolved feelings from childhood will come up. That's PTSD from her childhood, where her father wasn't safe. So suddenly her brain doesn't feel safe, and her brain will fixate on some irrational thing to be upset about. And until she can talk about it for a while, bring her stress levels back down, then she can recognize, oh, you know, I was just reacting to you like you're like when I was a child. I couldn't negotiate with my father. He was like dominant. Do you see the logic? So this is where crazy relationships, if you're just stressed in your daily life, you'll bring home the stress, the woman will, and project it onto her partner. And then he'll, if he has stress, he'll react right back. Or he doesn't understand how to build testosterone. What I've learned, containment, is a word that men have to, I just containing it. I'm holding in, I'm sucking in my abs to not talk, to not react, but to create a space for her, trusting she's gonna get through this if I can just contain. And and then men go, how can I empathize with her when she's upset about something so little? The way I do it is I go to listen to her upset about this and to contain. I it's suffering. You have to endure suffering if you're gonna marry a woman. You endure it. That's actually what to feel means in the dictionary, to endure. You endure suffering because she's not loving you. You used all this love, and then suddenly for a moment it shut off. You endure that and with without reacting to her. And how do I do it? In my mind, I go, This is so hard. This is so much suffering to listen to her. This is the suffering she's going through in this moment. And then I feel compassion that she has to feel what I'm having to feel right now. And by feeling compassion, then she will get the connection she needs to produce the estrogen for her stress to come down. Then she starts to become more loving and more reasonable. See, remember when women have strong emotions, blood flow leaves the logical part of the brain. They are irrational. Now, I'm not going to say she's irrational to her, but I know it. Matter of fact, I look at myself. Anytime I have any negative emotion, I'm irrational. Because whenever you have negative emotion, you're in a fight or flight state. If you're a man, if you're a woman, you could be in either state, adrenaline or, but both states are irrational. Blood flow is not fully going to the logical part of the brain. Now, when somebody is helpless, they can't even think clearly. The last thing I'm going to do is make them wrong. I'm going to understand with empathy what they're going through, provide the support to rebalance the hormones, lower the stress inside of her. And and, you know, women go, oh, well, then you're looking down on me. You have to understand that whatever, ever a man feels he has something to offer you, he will bow to you. You see, you know, when you see performers on the stage, they did a good job, they solved the problem, they did the show, and everybody's clapping. Yay, good job, good job. What does the performer do? They're humbled. They bow. If you want a man to bow to you, applaud him when he comes home. I don't, that's a joke. One woman said, from now on, when my husband comes home, I'm gonna applaud him because he's a good provider. And we really get very little credit for that, no doubt about it. But that's the way the brains are designed. Once you get something on a regular basis, it doesn't make dopamine anymore.

unknown 52:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

Yeah, that's a little bit like the like the joke of the the woman was so frustrated in a relationship. She was frustrated about being catcalled and the fact that her husband never understood how frustrating this was. So she puts up one of her friends to catcall him when he's out on the town to show him, show him what's what. And so it happens, and he comes home and he is strutting and feeling amazing. And she didn't have the heart to tell him that it was all faked and made up. All right, let's go into our rapid fire round and I'll ask you five quick questions. You just answer the first thing that comes to mind. You ready? Yep. All right. So, what is one classic relationship mistake?

SPEAKER_00 53:16

Uh, men solving a woman getting angry in the presence of a woman. She'll shut down, she can't appreciate anything you say.

unknown 53:24

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

What is one trust building habit that we all can start using? For women, the trust building habit is this little game which I describe, which is ask for help that's easy and see how quickly he'll respond. But you have to set it up so it makes sense to him. What is one myth about love? One myth, a big myth about love, is just because you love your partner, you're gonna be attracted to them for a lifetime. Uh it's all about hormones. When you love someone and just love them and you don't understand gender differences, you'll just become one, become more and more like them rather than be like them and be different from them, which is what you are.

unknown 54:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

So, what is one classic misunderstanding about men? Classic misunderstanding about men is that is that they're selfish, and that's narcissism. Every it's as soon as your husband does something that is typical of most men, you're gonna call him a narcissist. Now, narcissists do have similar qualities to most men, but don't confuse a man going to his cave as being a narcissist, or a man who thinks about himself as being a narcissist because you can't take care of others unless you first think about yourself. And when a man doesn't automatically give to you, it doesn't mean he's a narcissist. It means he's waiting for you to ask him to do something. If you don't ask, he assumes you don't want anything, he's not needed. And like a fireman, they sit around all day doing nothing until the bell rings, and that's gonna be your husband. So, what is one misunderstanding about women? One misunderstanding about women is that what would be a misunderstanding about women is that you can't make them happy. Because when a man is successful, often then their wife will be unhappy and they think, I can't make her happy. Why can't I make her happy? And the reason for that is women will habituate to all the things a man does and he she doesn't feel thrilled about it. She has stress, she'll begin to focus on things to be upset about, and he assumes I can't make her happy when it's so easy to make a woman happy. If you start understanding it's a lot of little things and not one or two big things, and that's what my work all is about, how to make it easy.

SPEAKER_02 55:38

Nice. That was amazing, John. I really appreciate you. How can we connect more with you? How can we keep learning? Where should we begin to get into your universe?

SPEAKER_00 55:48

MarsVenus.com. We have wonderful blogs. I have John Gray Mars Venus, just about to do right now. Go into my every Tuesday and Thursday. I do one to two hours where I answer people's questions and have topics at John Gray Mars Venus. Those are the two major places.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

Amazing. We'll link to all that in the show notes so you guys can claim it. John, thank you so much. Do you want to leave us with any last words of wisdom before we let you go?

SPEAKER_00 56:13

Um, no, I've done it. I've uh I'm just so happy to share my ideas with you and and uh I look forward to coming to Sweden sometime soon. I can have good memories of being in Sweden in the past. People have said, we really need this message. It's so helpful. And I I I really can't.

SPEAKER_02 56:30

I'm definitely gonna make that happen. I've had since I told people that we were doing this interview, I've had so many people get excited about it. Out of all of our authors, you are the one that's most prevalently known here in Sweden, I think.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

Well, I'm so grateful for that. I felt so appreciated when I was in Sweden. Sweden, even before I was teaching Minna from Mars, was the first country that invited me back when I was just teaching Healing the Heart. And I it was such a beautiful, beautiful experience and being invited into people's homes and so forth. It was a cult, it was my first out-of-the-country experience of uh and it was very positive. Thank you.

unknown 57:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

Well, we are super excited to have you start speaking at our summits and to work with us there. And uh, I'm sure we will be bringing you all over the world, not just to Sweden, but to all the different countries we run events in. Thank you so much. All right, thank you so much. I'll speak to you soon. Thank you so much for joining us today. I love the this segment of the Swedish Wealth Institute podcast. This is where me and the team have broken down the interview to find what is the difference that makes the difference. We've chosen five things that we think are worth you looking extra at and maybe implementing into your life so that it really has an impact. So the first thing we found was equality does not mean pretending we are the same. So this is one of the coolest things with John. He makes a point that equality comes from respect, not from ignoring each other's differences, but looking at how men and women might be different biologically, emotionally, how we respond to stress, and by understanding those differences, we can make sure we start supporting each other at a higher level. Number two, men often try to fix what women need to feel. So this is a funny classic relationship dynamic. A woman shares something, the man immediately goes into problem-solving mode. Well, from that perspective, he is helping, but often what she actually needs is not a solution. She wants to feel heard, safe, and understood. Number three, space and connection work differently under stress. This was really useful for me. That when a man is upset, space will help him regulate. You know, go into your man cave, process it, and come back clear. When a woman is upset, giving space is like she might feel abandoned. She needs is a gentle presence, reassurance, and proof that it is safe to open up. Number four, small things matter more than men usually realize. So John makes a point about love points. Like big things obviously make a map make a difference, right? Providing, being loyal, and building the future are amazing. But it's the day-to-day relationship life, the small repeated actions that make the long-term difference. You know, a hug at the right time, a phone call at the end of the day, small acts of helping out, or just giving your full attention to the other person for a few minutes actually makes a bigger difference than we might think. 5. Our home life affects our leadership. So it's very easy to underestimate. If your relationship and personal life are full of unresolved stress, that will follow you into work. That will affect your leadership and your decision making. John makes the point that your personal life should help you recover from stress, not continue to build it. So I hope you use these insights and try to bring them into your life. They've been incredibly valuable to me. And again, as a thank you for listening, I would love to ask you for a favor and give you a gift. So the first thing I would like to do is ask you to make sure you have subscribed to this podcast, just like thousands of people have done all over the world, so that you don't miss our next upcoming episode, which will be with Michelle Masters. More on that in a moment. I would also love it if you enjoyed this episode. If you would give us a five-star review or like the video or anything else that shows people that this was an amazing episode, it makes a difference. More people get a chance to see it, more people trust it and get the chance to learn from John or you know, from all the other amazing interviews that we are able to do. Now, for your gift, we would like to give you a two-week free access to the Swedish Wealth Institute app, the Swedish Wealth Institute Journey. Here we help you identify first, where are you now? You know, what are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? Where are you going? What is your dream life? And when looking at those, what is the number one thing holding you back? We can then connect you with the right way to overcome that. That might be an accountability buddy, a training with Jack Canfield, Dr. John D. Martini, or anyone else to make sure that you overcome it. In the show notes, you'll find a link to claim your two-week free access. So thank you so much for joining us today, and I hope I see you next week for Michelle Masters. She works with the subconscious mind. So in that episode, we're looking at how you can shape your money, business, relationships, and results by working on the subconscious. We talk about why it's so hard to overcome or see your subconscious blocks and how to work with these patterns without using the direct conscious effort. We challenge childhood beliefs and see how we can make impact. Thank you so much for joining us today. I hope I see you next week. I'm Daniel Wood, this is the Swedish Wealth Institute podcast, and thank you for joining us.